EXPERIENCE | Body, Neurology, and Smart Business with Chantill Lopez, Author, Podcast Host, and Co-Founder of the Embodied Business Institute

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A few weeks ago, long time friend and local musician Max Mackey joined me in studio for a wonderfully authentic conversation, episode 174, and afterwards he mentioned that I really should have his girlfriend on my show because she's so smart and experienced and I would just love her, and she was coming to visit in a couple weeks, and so I did, and I'm smarter for it and glad to add another friend.

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The entrepreneurial journey for Chantel Lopez seems to have started with a move to Hawaii, when she and her partner went there to be part of a crew on a startup mushroom farm.

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With the farm caught up in red tape for over a year, Chantel worked odd jobs including a snack shack before refinding her love for Pilates from high school and soon after becoming a Pilates teacher.

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A fateful statement from a friend that you'll never make any money teaching Pilates preceded her own business launch, and she went on to prove them wrong, and with a partner built a highly successful group of studios in the Napa Valley region.

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She continued from there to build a teacher training business.

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And further studied both business practice and neuroscience on top of her body focused foundation and with a co founder built the Embodied Business Institute to provide business training, coaching, and education focused on health businesses.

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Yoga studios, physical therapists, gyms, Pilata studios, and more don't need to be just in it for the passion.

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They can also make money.

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And here's how.

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I learned so much in this conversation, and we laughed a lot, and I asked a few dumb questions, but I came away very much understanding why my friend Max loves this woman so much, and you will too.

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So please join me in getting to know a new friend, Chantal Lopez.

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welcome back to the Loco Experience Podcast.

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My guest today is Chantel Lopez and Chantel is the co founder of the Embodied Business Institute.

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Uh, she's also a podcaster and author of Mom and More.

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Let's just start with, welcome Chantel.

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Thanks for being here.

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Thanks for having me.

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Um, so you were referred by my friend Max.

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I know.

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Who was just on a couple few weeks ago.

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I know.

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And during the show he said, you know, you should really, I think it was during the show, did he say it actually live and on air, or was it just afterwards?

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Uh, he talked about me a little bit, I think, during the podcast, but I don't think.

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He didn't say that at the time.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It must have been right after.

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He was like, dude, you should totally have my girlfriend on.

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So I'm glad you're out.

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You're out from where?

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California.

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Sacramento.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Um, I guess just set the stage.

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What, what does the Embodied Business Institute do?

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I understand you've had a lot of chapters, uh, yeah, a lot of chapters building all this stuff together.

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Yeah.

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It's a question I typically.

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Um, dread and love at the same time.

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Um, I was thinking about it a lot in the last few days, and today I realize, like, My entire career, I've been an entrepreneur for 25 years of not worked for anybody else, which has been really awesome.

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And I feel like if, when I'm looking back at it, it really, it's like, what passion or interesting thing could I do?

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Or what urge could I follow that I could make money doing?

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Okay.

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It's been like, it kind of wraps it up, but there has, there has been a A very natural, organic progression.

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But there's been quite a bit of progression.

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So right now the Embodied Business Institute, I have a co founder, Anne Bishop, who is a brilliant, uh, woman and a brilliant partner.

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Um, have you been obviously together from the start?

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Was started one your idea more than the other?

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Well, we started, we started working together back in 2011.

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Okay.

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We met each other in like 2002, and then we made a real go of the business in 2016.

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Oh, wow.

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So, um, yeah, we've known each other for a long time and we've had kind of parallel paths, but in 2016 we jumped in, uh, with a project.

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And then we slowly developed it over time.

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And then when COVID hit, we went all in 100%.

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So it was a side hustle for both of you.

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It was a side hustle, because that's exactly the way we describe it.

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A passion project is the way some people say it.

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Totally.

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Um, and so Fast forward right now, the way I talk about it is we essentially work in three different realms.

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We work in education, we work in business, and we work in behavior change, which is the thing that's kind of most elusive to people.

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Um, the foundation of all of these, uh, areas of work is really neuroscience and, and nervous system science.

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So I think backing up is probably super helpful.

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Yeah, let's do it.

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Yeah.

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Um, I have a degree in journalism, creative writing.

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So I did that, you know, for about two years before I thought it was probably going to kill me.

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Okay.

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Um, I worked for, uh, tiny newspapers, weeklies, three of them.

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Um, and I.

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I just, it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

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Right.

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Uh.

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Well, and it was, that was even before the real decline of the newspapers.

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Yeah, but it was like, it was already a pair.

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It was happening.

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Yeah.

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Gotcha.

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Um, and it was intense.

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I mean, I was working with great people, but old newspaper people, like real old school newspaper people.

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Right.

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And there was an interesting gender dynamic and age dynamic.

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Like I was, I think 20 when I started.

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Yeah, just a little, you know, like, uh, you know, maybe not quite so good natured jabbing at like, well, you have, you know, nothing, you know, you're 20, you have no experience.

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And, you know, when you're surrounded by all these old white guys who've been in the journalism business for a long time, it's an interesting place.

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And probably the young white guys got picked on a lot too, but maybe not as much.

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There were no young white guys.

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Oh, really?

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No, they were, they were all.

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Everybody, probably, in the newspaper staff was 50 plus, so it was by far the youngest.

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And there was one other woman, her name was Patty, I remember, she was, gosh, she must have been in her 40s, uh, and she was great, but that, that was just like her and I.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And so that was just an interesting place.

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Um, but I did that for a while and then I, we, my, my ex husband and I, we weren't married at the time, but we moved to Hawaii to help some friends start a business.

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Okay.

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And, uh, that business.

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Yeah.

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Organic mushroom farm on the big island of Hawaii.

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Okay.

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Um, we were, uh, And I still am, like, a total yes person.

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It was just like, I was, I had been working 70 hours a week as a journalist.

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I had been doing, uh, page layout.

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I was taking photographs.

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I was writing.

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I was getting paid beans.

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Yeah, I was working 70 hours a week.

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And, and really, I was only getting paid for 40.

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Right.

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And the whole deal was, well, whatever hours you work over, you'll get eventually in, in vacation time.

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Which is just a total fucking rip off.

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I mean, it just never transpired, obviously.

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So, um, yeah, that was just a really You're like, oh, you have something else for me to go and do?

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I'm into it.

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Yeah, so How do you grow mushrooms?

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Right.

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We were just like, whatever, let's, let's do anything else.

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So we moved to the Big Island and, uh, floundered in the farm.

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In Hawaii, everything moves by hand.

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It's so slow, so slow, it's like ridiculous.

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So we were there for a year and the farm never broke ground.

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Oh, wow.

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Um, and we ended up working in random jobs and, um, I had always been an athlete and I was a dancer in high school, so I basically did everything.

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I mean, I played softball, volleyball, I ran track, I played, uh, you know, everything and I was a dancer.

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I was just like, I had to like, I gotta, I gotta rest a little bit.

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So I started, um, in college I was dancing and I had taken a Pilates class.

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I don't know if you know much about Pilates.

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Not really.

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Yeah.

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It's a, it's like my neighbor doing it.

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Yeah.

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I mean, whatever.

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It's, it's fantastic and not worth probably explaining, but, um, I, I was just like, I want to kind of like semi aerobic yoga.

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Well, it's like fun.

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It's more based in functional movement and, and posture and alignment.

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So really it's like Tai Chi or something like that.

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Yeah.

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A little bit more pace to it.

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Think about like.

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There are many versions of it, um, but the whole point of Pilates is to really like build a very versatile, very, I don't want to say flexible because I don't necessarily mean like flexible.

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But a high functioning body.

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Do exercises that have reach in them because you have to reach for stuff a lot.

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Yeah, squatting and Things to get up from the ground, whatever.

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And Joseph Pilates actually, yeah, Joseph Pilates was, was Fucking genius and he had like 650 patents.

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He was a German man.

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He came over During the war.

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He was he came over his brother was in New York as a manufacturer and he was a really cool, dude Yeah And he studied martial arts and he had studied yoga and he had studied all of these things and he kind of grew up created his own system and it it really became popular during the era of modern dance because he was in a Building in New York with Martha Graham.

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I don't know if you know who that is.

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She's like the madam of modern.

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Okay, so So all of the dancers were would be injured and they would go to Joseph and his wife Clara and do this You funny thing that they were doing.

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Yeah, yeah.

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This system he had created.

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So, it is quite, um, Well, and preventative too, I assume.

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Preventative, but also, Rehab, rehabilitative, Totally.

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but also preventative.

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Yeah.

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Interesting.

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You know, I've, you know, interestingly, Pilates is one of those topics, like, I've done yoga and stuff.

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I got a sense of that.

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I've done some other stuff, but I just, It is a gap in my knowledge, so thanks for filling it in a little bit.

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Yeah, it's quite beautiful, actually, and, and powerful, like it builds strength and flexibility, but the real heart of it is like this balance.

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I think this is why I was attracted to it.

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I was not only already an athlete and very physical, so being in my body was very familiar and felt kind of like a, a really important thing.

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So, and then as a dancer, I was willing to do anything that.

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improved my ability, um, to perform, but it is.

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It really is this beautiful kind of, um, the goal is like to bring the mind and the body together.

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So there's harmony.

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So you're not like fighting against your body, but the body is strong and vital and functional and can do all of the things, you know, breathe.

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Some of those thematic things around yoga, but also maybe a higher emphasis on daily functionality and especially with sport and things.

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Yeah.

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And just a different perspective.

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I mean, he was a German guy, he came from like, he was taking stuff from like German calisthenics, you know, and circus performers.

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And he definitely took from yoga, but he was also a pugilist.

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So he was a boxer.

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Like, it's a really interesting body of work.

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So I had done that in college.

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And when we moved to Hawaii.

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Uh, it was a little bit of a shit show.

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It was just like not You're waiting for this job to come together that never materialized.

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Right, but you gotta work.

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Right.

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If you wanna eat.

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Yeah.

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So I ended up, uh, we joke because I ended up working at like a glorified snack shack.

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It was like a little, little, little Like, we're literally just a Snack Shack place like attached to an art gallery, like flinging ahi burgers and, and chili out of a can.

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It was so weird.

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It was so strange, but that was just what there was.

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And then I ended up getting a job in human resources at one of the observatories called Gemini.

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Okay.

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And that was not my like, I mean, I don't give a fuck about this, but I, it was, it was like, well, I'm waiting, right?

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We're just waiting.

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So while we were waiting and having a blast, I mean, it was a blast.

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I mean, the Big Island is pretty spectacular.

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We were doing, but my wife and I went to, Kauai and Maui for our 20th last year.

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It's really, it's really great.

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They've got something like 13 out of the known 15 ecosystems on that island.

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So you just get such a huge variety.

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Um, but while we were kind of waiting, I started taking Pilates classes again.

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And I was like, you know, I think I was just also super fatigued from my time in journalism, even though it was only two years and I was like, I don't really want to do anything petty.

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And so, um, I decided I would become a Pilates teacher.

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I was like, well, why the fuck not?

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There's nothing else to do really.

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And so I started that process.

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I was also performing.

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So I was still dancing and performing with the company on the big island.

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So it was all this cool stuff.

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Like, is this on like a pirate boat thing or something?

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Like, what are we talking about here?

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There was actually a, a dance collective on the big island.

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Um, And I think I was just like, just restore my body, you know, like rest my mind and, and give me something to like land in that didn't feel so fucking terrible.

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I mean, really, I learned a lot.

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And I'll tell people like I learned more in two years as a journalist than I did in every single day of my life.

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School right from, from Kay to the end, just right into the hot plate right from the start.

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Oh my God.

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Seriously.

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So I do appreciate that a lot because I do love writing and I do a lot of writing now.

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Um, so yeah, I just, we ended up leaving the Big Island because it must been partner never came together and Well, it did Okay, but it hadn't, right.

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So, uh, so we left and I got formally trained as a Pilates teacher.

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Um, and I opened a studio, and then I was like, oh, this.

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Workin for myself.

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Businesses real good.

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So I opened a studio and then I opened another studio.

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When you got back to.

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When we were back on the mainland.

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And, and did you go back to where you were from in some capacity or whatever, or where did you simply decide to land?

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Um, yeah, not really.

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We, we went to Sonoma County.

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So wine country.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Um, when I graduated high school, my whole family, my mom and my siblings, they moved to Sonoma County.

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So I was kind of uprooted.

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I didn't really have a, like I grew up in the Central Valley.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Um, so like, um, south of Sacramento is where I grew up.

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Um, hot.

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It's where they grow all the vegetables.

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Hot as fuck.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Um, so, no, we didn't go back there.

00:15:53.428 --> 00:15:54.499
I was not going back there.

00:15:54.499 --> 00:15:56.078
So, my mom.

00:15:56.089 --> 00:15:56.869
I'm from North Dakota.

00:15:57.068 --> 00:15:57.298
Yeah.

00:15:57.298 --> 00:15:58.639
And that was kind of like after college.

00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:03.448
It was not really like, my wife would be like, if I was like, honey, we're moving to North Dakota.

00:16:03.479 --> 00:16:03.879
She'd be like, yeah.

00:16:04.339 --> 00:16:05.448
You're moving to North Dakota, huh?

00:16:05.448 --> 00:16:05.969
Yeah, great.

00:16:05.999 --> 00:16:06.328
Have fun.

00:16:08.109 --> 00:16:10.538
Yeah, so we moved to Sonoma County, which is great.

00:16:10.889 --> 00:16:14.869
Um, and I, that's where I finished my training and then I built two businesses.

00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:15.239
Wow.

00:16:15.278 --> 00:16:18.149
And, uh, Did you have capital?

00:16:18.269 --> 00:16:20.298
Was your now husband able to chip in?

00:16:20.298 --> 00:16:22.798
I mean, it seems like you should have been pretty broke by the time you left Hawaii.

00:16:22.869 --> 00:16:23.249
Yeah.

00:16:23.688 --> 00:16:24.859
Did you get a loan from a bank?

00:16:25.109 --> 00:16:28.389
No, actually what I did was I started really small.

00:16:28.428 --> 00:16:30.109
So I started renting a space.

00:16:30.109 --> 00:16:30.168
Nice.

00:16:30.928 --> 00:16:36.879
from somebody and, um, saved some money and then I rented a, another space, a little bigger space.

00:16:37.219 --> 00:16:39.639
And I got, I had just a lot of support.

00:16:39.649 --> 00:16:42.078
I mean, I've just always had a lot of support in my life.

00:16:42.078 --> 00:16:50.219
So, um, I had two people who basically did like a friends and family loan to help me buy equipment because Pilates is quite expensive.

00:16:50.558 --> 00:16:53.359
It's all this big, fancy custom made equipment.

00:16:54.009 --> 00:16:54.428
Yeah.

00:16:54.568 --> 00:16:56.078
I thought it was body movements mostly.

00:16:56.458 --> 00:16:57.769
Well, there is mat work.

00:16:57.769 --> 00:17:04.933
So just floor work like yoga, but then So Joseph Pilates, all these inventions, he, there are, that's the 650 patents.

00:17:04.963 --> 00:17:05.263
Yeah.

00:17:05.263 --> 00:17:09.233
So there are these like five or six key, big pieces of equipment.

00:17:10.044 --> 00:17:11.003
And so I needed to.

00:17:11.469 --> 00:17:12.679
buy those things.

00:17:13.148 --> 00:17:18.308
And I had two very generous people in my life who were like, we'll buy them and you pay us.

00:17:18.328 --> 00:17:19.608
And it was no interest.

00:17:19.618 --> 00:17:21.419
And so I did that.

00:17:21.459 --> 00:17:22.298
It was a year.

00:17:22.638 --> 00:17:25.098
Um, and I was just making money hand over fist.

00:17:25.148 --> 00:17:26.749
I was like, this is fucking great.

00:17:26.868 --> 00:17:35.548
It basically is a function of if you have pretty full classes, you got one instructor that's you in the beginning and then you hire other instructors and yeah, you're getting a bunch of money.

00:17:35.548 --> 00:17:36.419
Yeah, it was just great.

00:17:36.509 --> 00:17:37.598
It was a tiny space.

00:17:37.608 --> 00:17:43.693
And I actually shared it with one other teacher and, um, But I just I just, my classes were full.

00:17:43.693 --> 00:17:44.324
That's just as easy.

00:17:44.384 --> 00:17:53.894
I was doing, yeah, I was doing lots of private, lots of private sessions and private sessions are quite expensive, so I had zero, I mean, my overhead That's wild was probably$500 a month.

00:17:53.894 --> 00:17:56.403
And you're literally like two years into this craft.

00:17:56.433 --> 00:17:56.733
Yeah.

00:17:57.183 --> 00:17:57.453
Yeah.

00:17:57.459 --> 00:18:00.453
I mean, I was probably like 25.

00:18:00.459 --> 00:18:00.648
Yeah.

00:18:00.844 --> 00:18:02.104
Yeah, 25.

00:18:02.374 --> 00:18:06.048
Was it leading edge at the time, or was Pilates already kind of known?

00:18:06.048 --> 00:18:07.608
Yeah, it, no, you just did it good.

00:18:07.709 --> 00:18:08.703
It was a little tough.

00:18:08.763 --> 00:18:09.993
It was a little tough because.

00:18:10.493 --> 00:18:30.252
Uh, I started training in 99 and then by the time I had my second studio, you know, it was still like people, you had to really educate people as to what it was, but we also lived in a community that was very active and kind of like, and had a lot of discretionary income and stuff too.

00:18:30.252 --> 00:18:32.140
Which was super helpful.

00:18:32.140 --> 00:18:32.612
Right.

00:18:32.612 --> 00:18:33.963
So that was great.

00:18:33.963 --> 00:18:38.513
And I think that was just like, why would I ever, ever, ever work for anybody else?

00:18:39.074 --> 00:18:43.213
I'm also just like, pretty contrary person, so I don't like to be told what to do.

00:18:43.604 --> 00:18:43.943
Yeah.

00:18:44.354 --> 00:18:44.804
Um.

00:18:45.874 --> 00:18:49.634
I'd like to say I'm helpful, like if you ask me, I'll probably help.

00:18:49.763 --> 00:18:50.003
Yeah.

00:18:50.003 --> 00:18:50.384
I'll probably do it.

00:18:50.403 --> 00:18:53.009
If you tell me what to do, then I'm probably going to do it.

00:18:53.328 --> 00:18:53.989
Tell you where to go.

00:18:54.019 --> 00:18:55.239
Yeah, totally.

00:18:55.269 --> 00:18:56.378
It doesn't work that way for me.

00:18:56.398 --> 00:19:24.689
I'm not always so helpful But yes, I am helpful, but yes, so that was like that was just great I think I got a taste for it and I was making a lot of money and it provided us a lot of Freedom so we could travel a lot and then we had a baby and I just brought I just brought him to work Oh, I mean, I just would bring him to work with me and he would be hanging out in the studio and is whatever, you know, um, so that, that was like the start of it.

00:19:24.689 --> 00:19:26.848
And then I, I was ready to grow.

00:19:26.848 --> 00:19:31.699
And then I, I was looking at a space downstairs and I was like, well, this is too big for me.

00:19:31.699 --> 00:19:33.159
I can't really accommodate that.

00:19:33.159 --> 00:19:36.828
I can't justify that, you know, the cost and yeah.

00:19:36.828 --> 00:19:43.189
So I basically like put out a note to some people and I was like, anybody interested in.

00:19:43.719 --> 00:19:46.888
You know, expanding and building a business and having a partner.

00:19:46.888 --> 00:19:52.479
And one woman that I had met one time from down the street was like, fuck yeah, I'll do it with you.

00:19:52.479 --> 00:19:53.828
I was like, great, let's do it.

00:19:54.578 --> 00:19:55.959
We just jumped in.

00:19:55.969 --> 00:19:57.398
We did not even know each other.

00:19:57.398 --> 00:19:58.769
Like from down the street, like in the neighborhood.

00:19:58.778 --> 00:20:00.269
Like literally down the street.

00:20:00.628 --> 00:20:06.263
I had taken a class with her when I was pregnant and I like, liked her okay.

00:20:07.554 --> 00:20:10.284
I mean, first impressions, you know, I was like, eh, it's okay.

00:20:10.284 --> 00:20:11.993
Pilates is not really my style.

00:20:11.993 --> 00:20:16.713
You know, I'm pretty picky and, uh, you know, obviously pretty opinionated.

00:20:17.423 --> 00:20:18.864
Um, but she said yes.

00:20:18.864 --> 00:20:20.324
And I was like, well, I love that.

00:20:20.763 --> 00:20:21.733
Like, let's do that.

00:20:21.743 --> 00:20:25.814
And so we did that for, I think, seven years together.

00:20:25.844 --> 00:20:26.223
Oh, wow.

00:20:26.304 --> 00:20:27.884
And it wasn't just a space share.

00:20:27.884 --> 00:20:28.723
You like partnered up.

00:20:28.723 --> 00:20:29.173
Oh yeah.

00:20:29.173 --> 00:20:33.354
We figured out how to split the monies and all that.

00:20:33.534 --> 00:20:34.153
And it was.

00:20:34.483 --> 00:20:36.723
Quite the learning.

00:20:36.933 --> 00:20:38.544
There was so much good about it.

00:20:38.604 --> 00:20:40.213
I mean, so much good about it.

00:20:40.213 --> 00:20:43.013
I evolved in incredible ways during that period.

00:20:43.013 --> 00:20:49.344
So, um, the business partnership was really rough and eventually pretty toxic.

00:20:49.743 --> 00:20:51.513
Um, but.

00:20:52.574 --> 00:20:56.453
I, we, we had huge, we had two, we ended up with two spaces.

00:20:56.453 --> 00:20:57.913
We rented the space next door.

00:20:58.233 --> 00:21:01.653
We had a retail section at our highest peak.

00:21:01.653 --> 00:21:03.384
We had 12 teachers working for us.

00:21:03.884 --> 00:21:05.624
We were offering teacher trainings.

00:21:05.634 --> 00:21:07.644
I was creating my own teacher trainings.

00:21:07.644 --> 00:21:12.453
At that point I had become, uh, I had kind of specialized in functional anatomy.

00:21:12.854 --> 00:21:22.443
And so I was teaching anatomy workshops, um, and I was, I had developed a mentoring program for teachers, both for yoga teachers and Pilates teachers.

00:21:22.763 --> 00:21:27.124
So the yoga and Pilates gig is like, you go through training.

00:21:27.384 --> 00:21:28.284
Some are good.

00:21:28.503 --> 00:21:29.653
Some are not so good.

00:21:29.884 --> 00:21:32.173
The trainers or trainings.

00:21:32.213 --> 00:21:34.673
Like, they're, you know, some of them are quite short.

00:21:34.683 --> 00:21:36.153
Some of them are quite extensive.

00:21:36.933 --> 00:21:50.483
What I began to notice is people were coming out of the trainings with no sense of how to run a business, no sense of how to build a business, no sense of like how to build a business with integrity, how to market themselves, how to scale, how to plan.

00:21:50.773 --> 00:21:51.054
Right.

00:21:51.114 --> 00:21:53.673
And so I was like, there's a huge missing gap here.

00:21:53.923 --> 00:21:59.163
And I, I now have like, totally, I have some experience, my, my wife, uh, in her.

00:21:59.453 --> 00:22:02.153
She's a dean of faculty and they have a massage program.

00:22:02.193 --> 00:22:02.503
Yeah.

00:22:02.534 --> 00:22:07.114
It's one of the most affordable massage, uh, certification programs in the hands on.

00:22:07.253 --> 00:22:07.584
Yeah.

00:22:07.733 --> 00:22:11.933
And a lot of them want to be self employed and stuff, but there's, here's your massage skills.

00:22:13.483 --> 00:22:14.023
Good luck.

00:22:14.064 --> 00:22:14.473
Yeah.

00:22:14.534 --> 00:22:14.884
Yeah.

00:22:14.983 --> 00:22:15.294
Okay.

00:22:15.294 --> 00:22:22.943
And, and people who I think gravitate toward, uh, professions like this are very much like helpers.

00:22:22.943 --> 00:22:26.913
They want to, you know, they like, They have this desire to help people.

00:22:26.913 --> 00:22:29.624
Verbalists, uh, acupuncturists, uh.

00:22:29.663 --> 00:22:31.473
Yeah, but they don't give a fuck about it.

00:22:31.483 --> 00:22:32.294
They don't care.

00:22:32.294 --> 00:22:33.003
They don't know.

00:22:33.003 --> 00:22:34.233
They're terrible at it.

00:22:34.794 --> 00:22:35.733
All these things, so.

00:22:36.003 --> 00:22:42.288
We've had a number of, um, medical profession folks in our local think tank chapter.

00:22:42.308 --> 00:22:42.739
Yeah.

00:22:42.909 --> 00:22:46.798
Cause they're really great at their medical profession stuff and they're super valuable.

00:22:47.108 --> 00:22:58.628
Like their knowledge of whether it's sometimes psychology or mental health or, or actual health, you know, with acupuncture things, like it's great to have them in there and they can actually.

00:22:59.213 --> 00:23:06.493
Pick up a lot of good practical business type skills from people that are more business focused, not craft focused.

00:23:06.773 --> 00:23:07.673
Yeah, yeah.

00:23:07.673 --> 00:23:08.114
Does that make sense?

00:23:08.173 --> 00:23:09.213
Yeah, absolutely.

00:23:09.443 --> 00:23:13.003
So I just saw a gap and I was like, I'm, I'm, I'm doing pretty good.

00:23:13.003 --> 00:23:16.263
Like, I think I'm, I could support people.

00:23:16.263 --> 00:23:19.199
And I really, I think for me, I just.

00:23:20.078 --> 00:23:25.679
I've always had a desire to help people, like, live better, like, live more fully.

00:23:25.679 --> 00:23:31.999
I'm like, if you're going to do this thing, like, why don't, why wouldn't you want to like, really know how to do it well, like, make some money?

00:23:32.179 --> 00:23:32.358
Yeah.

00:23:32.409 --> 00:23:36.729
You know, I had a mentor who told me, she said, you'll never make money teaching Pilates.

00:23:36.729 --> 00:23:38.088
And I was like, fuck you.

00:23:39.189 --> 00:23:42.469
I mean, I don't think I said that to her face, but inside, I was like, I'll show you.

00:23:42.469 --> 00:23:43.489
It just can't be true.

00:23:43.499 --> 00:23:43.769
Right.

00:23:43.939 --> 00:23:44.388
You know?

00:23:45.503 --> 00:23:49.423
I think I just had this desire to like, I'm going to support people.

00:23:49.443 --> 00:23:50.943
Well, and it's psychological too.

00:23:51.243 --> 00:23:51.423
Yeah.

00:23:51.423 --> 00:23:55.699
Because especially in that health profession, what I call profit guilt is abundant.

00:23:55.699 --> 00:23:56.673
Oh, totally.

00:23:56.743 --> 00:23:57.463
100%.

00:23:57.463 --> 00:24:03.644
Like, if somebody would start making 10, 000 a month teaching Pilates classes, they're like, Oh my God, I must be charging my customers too much.

00:24:03.644 --> 00:24:04.344
Too much.

00:24:04.604 --> 00:24:05.334
100%.

00:24:05.344 --> 00:24:07.653
Well, no, it just means you're helping a lot of people at results.

00:24:07.653 --> 00:24:08.044
Yeah.

00:24:08.044 --> 00:24:08.344
Shut up.

00:24:08.344 --> 00:24:08.624
Yeah.

00:24:08.733 --> 00:24:10.673
And, and the truth is.

00:24:11.074 --> 00:24:25.433
Like Pilates teachers, this is the thing that I think, you know, always was a little bit of a grinding spot for me is like, we are more educated on the body and functionally how the body moves than most medical professionals.

00:24:27.209 --> 00:24:27.469
Yeah.

00:24:27.628 --> 00:24:36.398
I mean, and I have, every time I have gone to see a doctor, it's like, well, how does, how does everything work?

00:24:36.398 --> 00:24:38.009
It's like, I know how it moves.

00:24:38.269 --> 00:24:39.628
I know all the systems.

00:24:39.628 --> 00:24:41.388
I know how the systems work together.

00:24:41.398 --> 00:24:50.574
Like, so anytime I have had an injury, like I went, I was in a car accident, somebody hit me in 2020 and I had a knee injury and I went to see a doctor.

00:24:50.723 --> 00:24:51.993
A general practitioner.

00:24:52.084 --> 00:24:55.273
She wasn't my doctor, but it was like whoever was available.

00:24:55.324 --> 00:24:58.884
And I, I go in there and I'm like, here's what I think is happening.

00:24:59.134 --> 00:25:08.773
And I'm using anatomical language because I've had 10, 000 hours of, you know, training and teaching other people and And she just was like, what do you do again?

00:25:09.044 --> 00:25:14.364
She was so demeaning and so, I mean, I just, What makes you think you can tell me how to do my job?

00:25:14.493 --> 00:25:18.023
Yeah, it was just, it was, I was, I was like, okay.

00:25:18.034 --> 00:25:19.903
So tell me about functional anatomy.

00:25:19.973 --> 00:25:22.054
Like you were saying that was kind of your specialty.

00:25:22.064 --> 00:25:22.534
Yeah.

00:25:22.534 --> 00:25:24.064
What's, what's that mean?

00:25:24.074 --> 00:25:28.134
Like, I think about anatomy, it's just like naming all the bones and muscles and stuff.

00:25:28.134 --> 00:25:28.334
Right.

00:25:28.334 --> 00:25:30.763
Well, it's essentially like, how does it all work?

00:25:31.013 --> 00:25:31.263
Okay.

00:25:31.453 --> 00:25:36.673
Because this, you're, you're like human system is so complex.

00:25:36.753 --> 00:25:39.233
When I say arm bend, it bends.

00:25:39.233 --> 00:25:39.614
Yeah.

00:25:39.673 --> 00:25:39.923
Right.

00:25:39.953 --> 00:25:48.243
Except for, your arm bends and there is something else that's helping or happening to make the arm bend.

00:25:48.273 --> 00:25:49.483
Like, you bend your elbow.

00:25:50.023 --> 00:25:57.933
Something's happening at your shoulder, and something's happening at your shoulder blade, which means something's happening at your rib cage, which means something's happening at your thoracic spine.

00:25:58.243 --> 00:26:04.314
So there is, particularly when we're talking about like walking, basic movement, so functional movement.

00:26:04.634 --> 00:26:18.509
So you take a step and the way your foot hits the ground, the way the bones of your foot and your toes and your ankle and your tibia and your fibula and your knee, like how those move and work together is important.

00:26:18.848 --> 00:26:31.409
It's a complex system, the bones have rhythms, they don't just move linearly, they move in multi dimensions and each joint has a very complex pattern of movement.

00:26:31.439 --> 00:26:45.993
And then that pattern of movement, so if it's an optimal pattern of movement, when you're you know, like a little person, you, you start de optimizing it by whoever you learn to walk from.

00:26:46.034 --> 00:26:51.943
So let's just say you were raised by your mom and dad, and so you learn to walk by watching them.

00:26:52.263 --> 00:26:56.834
So whatever patterns they have, you immediately take on.

00:26:57.314 --> 00:27:10.523
So, and their patterns are based on Injury, illness, you know, like, I'm told I have an unusual gait, kind of, like people can recognize me across the street, even if they can't see my face, because I walk kind of funny.

00:27:10.594 --> 00:27:11.064
Yeah.

00:27:11.394 --> 00:27:13.144
You probably learned it from my dad.

00:27:13.173 --> 00:27:14.044
Or whomever.

00:27:14.074 --> 00:27:14.183
Right.

00:27:14.183 --> 00:27:14.473
Yeah.

00:27:14.733 --> 00:27:18.354
And then, and then your gait is impacted by, did you ever sprain an ankle?

00:27:18.364 --> 00:27:20.344
I heard you, I think I was listening to the show.

00:27:20.344 --> 00:27:21.193
Yeah, knee injury.

00:27:21.193 --> 00:27:21.513
Yeah.

00:27:21.513 --> 00:27:21.604
Yeah.

00:27:21.604 --> 00:27:21.693
So.

00:27:21.693 --> 00:27:21.784
So.

00:27:21.784 --> 00:27:22.003
So.

00:27:22.213 --> 00:27:23.594
Your gait is changed by that.

00:27:23.864 --> 00:27:27.713
It's like, I learned in my physical therapy, trying to rehab my knee.

00:27:27.713 --> 00:27:35.743
My, my physical therapist is a pretty sharp young man and he videoed me running on a treadmill and that and another couple of other things.

00:27:35.743 --> 00:27:39.614
He identified that my left arch is far less.

00:27:40.233 --> 00:27:42.064
strong than my right arch.

00:27:42.124 --> 00:27:51.773
And so even though I had a bad bum right knee, my balance was still stronger on my right because my left foot doesn't have the right kind of foundation.

00:27:51.854 --> 00:27:52.114
Yeah.

00:27:52.304 --> 00:27:58.703
It's so it's all of that functional anatomy is like looking at how the body works and understanding that there are so many systems at play.

00:27:59.054 --> 00:28:00.653
There's also the history at play.

00:28:00.653 --> 00:28:02.554
There's the learned behavior that's at play.

00:28:03.013 --> 00:28:06.574
Um, so it's this just super dynamic concept.

00:28:06.584 --> 00:28:22.423
So when you go to try to improve somebody's movement patterns, you've got to understand that even like, even the way your viscera is sitting, like your gut, like literally if you're having like gastrointestinal, don't do that.

00:28:23.773 --> 00:28:30.723
Gastrointestinal issues are going to impact the way you hold your self, your spine, and that's going to impact the way you walk.

00:28:30.723 --> 00:28:37.753
And if that, if you have GI issues for a long time, you're going to, you know, like there's just all of these implications.

00:28:37.784 --> 00:28:38.094
Right.

00:28:38.163 --> 00:28:39.213
And we're just talking about basic.

00:28:40.338 --> 00:28:48.959
You were, when you get into like, I'm a dancer and I used to be able to do this move and it's on the edge of my capacity and then I've lost that edge and I need to get it back.

00:28:48.969 --> 00:28:49.328
Yeah.

00:28:49.739 --> 00:28:51.368
I mean, I worked with cyclists.

00:28:51.368 --> 00:28:53.419
I worked with, uh, ice skaters.

00:28:53.419 --> 00:28:58.249
I worked with runners, like, you know, triathletes, like all kinds of folks.

00:28:58.259 --> 00:29:02.469
I also worked with people who were not athletes, you know, um, Yeah.

00:29:02.469 --> 00:29:03.608
So that, that's it.

00:29:03.608 --> 00:29:10.009
Like, you know, we could talk about that for six hours or more, but, um, yeah, totally.

00:29:10.489 --> 00:29:11.388
Let's not do that.

00:29:12.038 --> 00:29:12.959
Um, yeah.

00:29:12.959 --> 00:29:15.398
So you asked me what that meant, I think.

00:29:15.419 --> 00:29:15.638
Yeah.

00:29:15.638 --> 00:29:15.858
Yeah.

00:29:15.858 --> 00:29:16.489
The functional medicine.

00:29:16.489 --> 00:29:23.159
So, um, so to get back to maybe your business journey, you had, uh, this book.

00:29:23.179 --> 00:29:31.118
partner, some friction, successful business, which usually friction comes from, uh, not making any money.

00:29:31.199 --> 00:29:31.449
Yeah.

00:29:31.449 --> 00:29:31.848
We did.

00:29:31.969 --> 00:29:32.419
We did.

00:29:32.429 --> 00:29:34.108
We did really well for a long time.

00:29:34.108 --> 00:29:35.729
And then at the end we were not doing well.

00:29:36.318 --> 00:29:39.509
And, um, It, it, it ended.

00:29:39.858 --> 00:29:42.919
What do you think, what, what, what caused the decline?

00:29:42.939 --> 00:29:47.358
Like, was it competition entering the marketplace and doing a better job?

00:29:47.358 --> 00:29:49.169
Was it, it wasn't new anymore?

00:29:49.338 --> 00:29:50.239
I don't think so.

00:29:50.239 --> 00:29:52.378
I think it was more toxic environment.

00:29:52.388 --> 00:29:53.169
Nobody wanted to.

00:29:53.298 --> 00:29:54.128
No, we had a group.

00:29:54.148 --> 00:29:55.368
We had so many people.

00:29:55.378 --> 00:29:55.838
Okay.

00:29:55.909 --> 00:29:56.169
Yeah.

00:29:56.169 --> 00:29:57.788
I mean, business was really booming.

00:29:57.788 --> 00:30:04.298
I think ultimately it was that we just had different ways of, of running the business.

00:30:04.308 --> 00:30:06.808
Like I wanted to stick to like the very practical.

00:30:07.028 --> 00:30:09.378
Like, this sounds super silly, right?

00:30:09.409 --> 00:30:14.019
Like, how would you not want to just like, you can only spend what you make.

00:30:14.088 --> 00:30:21.798
Like you gotta, you know, and, and she unfortunately was kind of this magical thinking kind of person.

00:30:21.808 --> 00:30:29.749
I mean, I don't want to, yeah, I don't want to like talk down about her because we, we still have a friendship and we've kind of recovered, which has been sweet and wonderful.

00:30:29.749 --> 00:30:34.739
But, um, Yeah, we just had different ideas, you know, she, she wanted a lot.

00:30:34.749 --> 00:30:39.009
She had like, yeah, she was a big dreamer She was like, yeah wanted to buy more equipment.

00:30:39.038 --> 00:30:46.493
She thought she was like, oh this will work because this I was like It's not gonna fucking work like and we can't We can't afford it actually.

00:30:46.493 --> 00:30:49.773
Like we've got to, so we had very, just like divergent ideas.

00:30:49.784 --> 00:30:59.013
And, um, so I extricated myself from the business and I actually stayed and worked in the business, uh, as an independent contractor for a year.

00:30:59.604 --> 00:31:00.874
Um, I, and I.

00:31:01.044 --> 00:31:04.763
I basically like gave the business to her, uh, which was a bummer.

00:31:05.114 --> 00:31:08.544
But, um, I had at that point, that was 2013.

00:31:08.874 --> 00:31:10.584
I had already written a book.

00:31:10.634 --> 00:31:14.483
I wrote a book about teaching called moving beyond technique.

00:31:14.534 --> 00:31:14.884
Okay.

00:31:14.993 --> 00:31:17.114
Um, which was kind of based on my mentorship process.

00:31:17.253 --> 00:31:22.453
Um, you know, theory, um, and the mentorship program I had developed was a 12 month program.

00:31:22.773 --> 00:31:30.544
So teachers would go out of their training and then they would go into a 12 month mentorship where we would talk about business strategy and planning.

00:31:30.544 --> 00:31:40.923
And um, like we were also developing, uh, like more high end skills for like, how do I optimize the teacher student relationship?

00:31:40.923 --> 00:31:46.263
So I had been doing a lot of study around like humanistic psychology and motivational science.

00:31:46.778 --> 00:31:52.969
And so I was bringing that into the work and, and that was kind of like the thing that kept pulling me along.

00:31:53.398 --> 00:31:56.598
So you're really drifting over to the mind now instead of the body.

00:31:56.838 --> 00:32:00.898
Well, I was like, there's more to the body because there's a thing for Pilates teachers.

00:32:01.328 --> 00:32:08.979
And I don't know if it happens for yoga teachers, but, um, where they will say, uh, I teach the body in front of me.

00:32:09.358 --> 00:32:10.769
I'm like, well, that's great.

00:32:10.778 --> 00:32:22.278
You know, like meaning they're attentive and it's individual attention and they're watching and they're, you know, it's highly customized to the person in front of them, which is all fine.

00:32:22.328 --> 00:32:23.519
We don't want to take that away.

00:32:23.858 --> 00:32:29.134
But my sense always was like, There is not just a body in front of you, right?

00:32:29.193 --> 00:32:31.644
There is there is a history in front, right?

00:32:31.673 --> 00:32:32.723
There is a spiritual.

00:32:32.743 --> 00:32:34.354
It's a human being and doing.

00:32:34.364 --> 00:33:14.558
Yeah, the bio Psychosocial spiritual like there is more to this and I was never even though I was very body oriented Um, I was just like this is kind of bullshit Like I'm not just teaching the body in front of me and and it's not that interesting Honestly, like I don't Which is why I don't teach Pilates anymore, because, uh, like, eh, this is not, it's not, it's not enough, like, there's more here, like, the brain is doing something, the nervous system is doing something, like, there's all of these components that we're ignoring, so, uh, that's, when I sold the studio, or when I left the studio in 2013, that's when I had, I really started kind of down that path.

00:33:14.598 --> 00:33:15.169
Yeah, yeah.

00:33:15.449 --> 00:33:21.828
Well, it felt like, you know, You were starting to describe Pilates as a little bit of a mind body connection earlier.

00:33:21.828 --> 00:33:30.048
I was thinking about comparing it to like martial arts and things like that, or the Tai Chi, but it's less of that than I mean, I wish it were more of that.

00:33:30.409 --> 00:33:33.959
People pay a lot of lip service to like body mind spirit is the whole thing.

00:33:33.959 --> 00:33:38.999
I'm like, that is also bullshit because people, people like don't talk about spirituality.

00:33:39.009 --> 00:33:42.538
Don't talk about like anything that's not physical.

00:33:43.114 --> 00:33:48.683
It, cause it just, Pilates got this like very strong, it's like a fad, you know, awareness.

00:33:49.163 --> 00:33:50.324
It's what Madonna did.

00:33:50.324 --> 00:33:53.804
I mean, seriously, that's when it kicked off, like in the nineties, Madonna was doing it.

00:33:53.804 --> 00:33:57.773
So all of a sudden it was like the coolest, you know, fitness thing.

00:33:57.784 --> 00:33:58.463
It was like a fitness.

00:33:58.463 --> 00:33:59.693
Yeah.

00:33:59.693 --> 00:34:05.894
So yeah, no, a lot of lip service to that, but not a lot of like richness in the actual now.

00:34:05.894 --> 00:34:15.898
No, There are the groups of people and teachers and organizations that lean in that direction a little bit more Yeah, but it's like five percent.

00:34:15.969 --> 00:34:28.054
Okay, so yeah, so I I had written a book about teaching and I was, I was, I think I had been writing a lot as a business owner.

00:34:28.384 --> 00:34:30.083
And you know, I was writing marketing.

00:34:30.094 --> 00:34:31.184
I was writing emails.

00:34:31.184 --> 00:34:34.164
I was like, oh, maybe I'm not done.

00:34:34.164 --> 00:34:35.923
More production writing, not book writing.

00:34:36.134 --> 00:34:36.634
Yeah.

00:34:36.864 --> 00:34:37.733
But I had been writing.

00:34:37.853 --> 00:34:38.043
Right.

00:34:38.083 --> 00:34:46.478
And I really, when I left the newspapers, Uh, my, my, um, publisher said, he gave me a card and he said, all orbits come full circle.

00:34:46.539 --> 00:34:48.679
And it was another like, fuck off moment.

00:34:48.679 --> 00:34:50.239
I never doing this again.

00:34:50.599 --> 00:34:51.588
I'm never doing it again.

00:34:52.059 --> 00:34:56.309
Like, if I never write another word, I would probably be fine, which ended up not being true.

00:34:56.518 --> 00:34:58.028
Then the book started coming together.

00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:10.039
Well, then I was like, Oh, if I write for myself, if I'm writing to share, you know, education, because I had really started to identify as an educator, I loved educating people, not just teaching people.

00:35:10.393 --> 00:35:12.753
but educating them about their bodies.

00:35:13.054 --> 00:35:22.713
Um, so I had written the book and I left the studio and I had started already, uh, uh, educational company called skillful teaching, which I think Max mentioned.

00:35:23.103 --> 00:35:23.673
Yes.

00:35:23.724 --> 00:35:26.244
And so it was the book.

00:35:26.353 --> 00:35:29.548
And then the mentorship I took online.

00:35:29.619 --> 00:35:44.228
And so I was working with people from all over the world and, um, facilitating lots of cool education, you know, both anatomy education, but also, uh, business education and still with some emphasis on those other Pilates folks.

00:35:44.418 --> 00:35:44.679
Yeah.

00:35:44.679 --> 00:35:47.639
It was still drawing from, but, but the audience was growing.

00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:49.599
So it was like not just Pilates, but it was yoga.

00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:50.858
It was massage therapists.

00:35:50.858 --> 00:35:53.568
It was people who were in health and wellness and nutritionists.

00:35:53.588 --> 00:35:54.699
And all kinds.

00:35:55.088 --> 00:35:56.949
I was like, this is really cool Right.

00:35:56.949 --> 00:35:59.889
You know, and I had, I had been really fatigued with teaching Pilates.

00:36:00.188 --> 00:36:00.248
Yeah.

00:36:00.699 --> 00:36:08.219
Um, and so I started a podcast with a colleague called The Thinking Pilates Podcast, and that ran for six years.

00:36:08.278 --> 00:36:08.639
Okay.

00:36:08.759 --> 00:36:09.838
And I was like, oh my God.

00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:15.438
I just kept like following that whatever the tug was, you know, it's like, I love writing.

00:36:15.438 --> 00:36:16.119
I'm writing a book.

00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:17.588
I loved that process.

00:36:17.748 --> 00:36:18.418
I loved it.

00:36:18.469 --> 00:36:20.088
I was like, I'm fucking in heaven.

00:36:20.518 --> 00:36:21.148
I love it.

00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:22.648
Like I want to do more of this.

00:36:23.358 --> 00:36:27.498
And then I started the podcast and I was like, this is also really great.

00:36:27.789 --> 00:36:31.699
And is this, uh, circa like 2014 or something like that?

00:36:31.699 --> 00:36:38.483
Um, I think the podcast started probably in 20, Fifteen, yeah, 2015.

00:36:38.483 --> 00:36:40.014
So this is approaching your reunite.

00:36:40.588 --> 00:36:42.759
Reunition with Anne.

00:36:42.759 --> 00:36:43.798
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:43.798 --> 00:36:50.338
So I was doing the podcast and Anne actually approached me because she decided to go to Harvard.

00:36:50.509 --> 00:36:53.829
She, she started a Pilates studio when she was 23.

00:36:53.829 --> 00:36:54.208
Okay.

00:36:54.208 --> 00:37:03.369
And she's just a super smart gal and real curious and for her the draw was like, it's not just the body, it's the brain.

00:37:03.603 --> 00:37:05.213
What's happening in the brain?

00:37:05.554 --> 00:37:12.634
And so she found a program at Harvard that's no longer there, unfortunately, which is a master's program in brain mind education.

00:37:12.784 --> 00:37:13.094
Okay.

00:37:13.264 --> 00:37:18.884
And, um, she took it and she built a, a company called Brain Body Connect.

00:37:19.284 --> 00:37:25.403
And it was, uh, continuing education for people in the, Movement and healing arts.

00:37:25.483 --> 00:37:25.784
Okay.

00:37:25.784 --> 00:37:30.503
So anybody who was working with the body Yeah, who wanted to know like what's actually happening up here?

00:37:30.583 --> 00:37:41.574
Yeah before we see it in the but it counted as a continuing education kind of a thing Yeah, that's who she was and she was working with a lot of physical therapists and I said started, you know Pulling in physical therapists.

00:37:41.574 --> 00:37:50.150
So she was but I had started my business and left my studio before that and she was like Oh, well, you're gonna give me a little what's up here.

00:37:50.150 --> 00:37:52.188
You know, I don't how do I do this?

00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:53.148
Oh, I see.

00:37:53.248 --> 00:37:56.298
So, so we had a couple of, uh, chats.

00:37:56.318 --> 00:38:02.809
And, um, we ended up sharing a small office in Sebastopol, which is where I lived at the time in Sonoma County.

00:38:03.798 --> 00:38:07.739
And we were like, just totally geeking out with each other is so great.

00:38:07.998 --> 00:38:08.818
It was so great.

00:38:08.878 --> 00:38:12.318
We both just, you know, We love to be educated.

00:38:12.318 --> 00:38:13.429
We love to be informed.

00:38:13.438 --> 00:38:14.219
We love science.

00:38:14.219 --> 00:38:15.018
We love research.

00:38:15.018 --> 00:38:22.219
We were like, let's bring some meat to this like thing that, you know, people don't necessarily think that highly of and blah, blah, blah.

00:38:22.219 --> 00:38:22.548
Yeah.

00:38:22.829 --> 00:38:24.699
So, um, yeah.

00:38:24.699 --> 00:38:26.369
And then we started a project together.

00:38:26.858 --> 00:38:31.518
Um, so I was running my mentorship program and, uh, doing the podcast.

00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:33.579
Did you make any money on the podcast?

00:38:33.748 --> 00:38:34.259
No.

00:38:34.349 --> 00:38:34.579
Yeah.

00:38:34.588 --> 00:38:35.329
I never did.

00:38:35.338 --> 00:38:35.719
Yeah.

00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:38.648
I just, it was like, I also was having a baby.

00:38:38.659 --> 00:38:44.579
You know, I was raising my son and, excuse me, there was just a lot going on.

00:38:44.579 --> 00:38:44.679
Yeah.

00:38:44.768 --> 00:38:45.414
You know, it was like, yeah.

00:38:45.594 --> 00:38:47.074
We got a lot of traction.

00:38:47.123 --> 00:38:49.233
Yeah, you got a lot of clients from it.

00:38:49.403 --> 00:38:50.034
We did.

00:38:50.054 --> 00:38:51.463
And it's, you know, it's so interesting.

00:38:51.483 --> 00:38:54.724
I still have people say, Is that your podcast?

00:38:54.733 --> 00:38:56.213
Thinking Pilates podcast?

00:38:56.483 --> 00:38:59.153
I was like, yes, people still talk about the book.

00:38:59.563 --> 00:39:00.804
Still people are coming.

00:39:00.813 --> 00:39:03.264
Yeah, 20 or 10 years later after the book virtually.

00:39:03.284 --> 00:39:03.773
Yeah.

00:39:03.873 --> 00:39:04.253
Yeah.

00:39:04.333 --> 00:39:05.134
Yeah, 11 years.

00:39:05.134 --> 00:39:07.168
So Yeah, it's very cool.

00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:21.048
Um, and we really just did it because we had a desire to expand the conversation beyond like the, in Pilates, it's just so strange sometimes it's like, who's doing it right and who's doing it wrong and who's better than who it's like, Oh God.

00:39:21.579 --> 00:39:22.518
And what did you talk about?

00:39:22.518 --> 00:39:24.179
Was this like a weekly show?

00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:24.469
Was it?

00:39:24.478 --> 00:39:29.739
We, we recorded kind of inconsistently, but we probably did three to four shows a week.

00:39:30.568 --> 00:39:30.898
Okay.

00:39:30.989 --> 00:39:31.338
Yeah.

00:39:31.378 --> 00:39:53.829
And we talked about, really, we talked about like human connection, you know, like how do we, how do we take this thing that we know how to do and how do we help people improve not just their bodies, but their lives, you know, because when you start to improve your body, you know, you're breathing better, you're moving better, like your mood changes, your nervous system gets settled, you communicate better, right?

00:39:53.878 --> 00:39:54.884
Like, there's Yeah.

00:39:54.893 --> 00:39:57.273
So many positive ripple effects.

00:39:57.614 --> 00:40:01.434
If you're kind of chill in some ways and have a healthy body, it's just a lot easier to be a nice person.

00:40:01.463 --> 00:40:01.804
Yeah.

00:40:02.103 --> 00:40:12.233
And we wanted to really like, we wanted to open up the dialogue around what it meant to be a teacher and like, what is the responsibility and how do you, how do you get better at it?

00:40:12.244 --> 00:40:18.954
Because there's so many shitty teachers, you know, that it's like, it's not just about the subject matter.

00:40:18.954 --> 00:40:19.014
Right.

00:40:19.393 --> 00:40:22.523
And if it's just about the subject matter, you're fucking failing.

00:40:23.083 --> 00:40:25.603
And so, it was like that kind of Right.

00:40:25.653 --> 00:40:48.219
Well, and that's It kind of harkens back to your early kind of business pursuits of trying to turn these Pilates people and other health practitioners into proper business people because like too many of them, their, their finances are a train wreck and so they can't really show up and teach the best class, give the best massage.

00:40:48.989 --> 00:40:53.079
Really be in a right place of mind to be a leader a teacher a hundred percent.

00:40:53.219 --> 00:40:58.009
Yeah So we had really rich conversations and we were that was about the time.

00:40:58.009 --> 00:41:08.599
I got exposed to something very fancy called the polyvagal theory and It was developed in 1994 by a neuroscience and researcher named.

00:41:08.608 --> 00:41:08.918
Dr.

00:41:08.918 --> 00:41:10.009
Steven Porges.

00:41:10.009 --> 00:41:25.483
Okay, and It's It's basically like the idea that your nervous system is way more complex than we have ever thought, and it has a direct impact on your behavior, and particularly the way you socially engage and interact.

00:41:26.364 --> 00:41:29.143
And I, it was like a drop in the hat.

00:41:29.143 --> 00:41:42.853
I was at a continuing education seminar, and This woman said something in passing about, um, vocalization, like making sound or laughing or singing or something and its impact on the vagus nerve.

00:41:43.273 --> 00:41:48.054
Well, your vagus nerve is like your primary conduit for your parasympathetic nervous system.

00:41:48.634 --> 00:41:53.423
Um, and I was like, Oh, I, I really want to know more about that.

00:41:53.634 --> 00:41:56.204
Like, that seems like what I've been looking for.

00:41:56.474 --> 00:41:56.704
You know.

00:41:57.059 --> 00:42:02.679
This, I was like, if we can open up the main pipe, yeah, it just, it's somehow ties everything together.

00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:02.739
Yeah.

00:42:03.099 --> 00:42:08.789
And so it is about that time that I started to study the polyvagal theory and I sought out Dr.

00:42:08.789 --> 00:42:17.259
Porgeson um, and a woman named Evdaina who had studied with him and was producing lots of material and, and education around it.

00:42:17.268 --> 00:42:24.028
So, um, Yeah, my just my business and my life kept, you know, I just kept like following the thing.

00:42:24.039 --> 00:42:24.369
Yeah.

00:42:24.489 --> 00:42:38.083
Yeah, and and were you like Making a sustainable income in all these seasons or like I was always I mean I I was the primary breadwinner for my family for a very, very long time.

00:42:38.083 --> 00:42:38.514
Interesting.

00:42:38.514 --> 00:42:42.833
What's your husband doing along this way, by the way, because you mentioned you had a second child near that time.

00:42:42.873 --> 00:42:45.653
Yeah, so we had our son in 2005.

00:42:48.304 --> 00:42:55.304
He's 18, I think that's the right math, 2005, um, and then we had our daughter, Sydney, in 2013.

00:42:56.023 --> 00:42:56.344
Okay.

00:42:56.704 --> 00:42:57.054
Right?

00:42:57.074 --> 00:42:58.134
She's going to be 11.

00:42:58.134 --> 00:42:58.344
Yeah.

00:42:59.034 --> 00:42:59.813
I can never quite remember.

00:43:00.664 --> 00:43:01.193
Um.

00:43:01.568 --> 00:43:03.398
Yeah, so we were raising kids.

00:43:03.478 --> 00:43:06.889
I had, you know, I had had my own business all these years.

00:43:06.909 --> 00:43:11.059
He was kind of on and off again at this time.

00:43:11.228 --> 00:43:13.088
He was, he had his own business.

00:43:13.108 --> 00:43:15.688
He was like a, he was doing website development.

00:43:15.838 --> 00:43:16.059
Okay.

00:43:16.108 --> 00:43:19.619
Um, and it did really well for a little bit and then just did not do well.

00:43:19.659 --> 00:43:21.389
He is a lovely human.

00:43:21.489 --> 00:43:23.659
We are no longer married, obviously.

00:43:23.659 --> 00:43:27.768
And, um, it'd be weird if you had a boyfriend in Fort Collins and you were still married.

00:43:27.768 --> 00:43:31.438
Just making sure we know we, we, we were, we were following the story.

00:43:31.438 --> 00:43:32.293
That's good.

00:43:32.293 --> 00:43:33.148
That's good.

00:43:33.148 --> 00:43:36.268
Um, in case you haven't listened to the other podcast, um.

00:43:36.994 --> 00:43:41.903
Yeah, so he just wasn't quite, he wasn't cut out for running his own business, unfortunately.

00:43:41.903 --> 00:43:43.903
So it was really up and down.

00:43:44.143 --> 00:43:49.353
So if I wasn't like the main financial contributor, I was definitely pulling my weight.

00:43:49.364 --> 00:43:49.693
Yeah, yeah.

00:43:50.034 --> 00:43:52.014
Um, there were, I mean, I won't lie.

00:43:52.023 --> 00:43:55.023
I mean, there were times where it was I mean, book writing is usually not very popular.

00:43:55.469 --> 00:43:55.708
Yeah.

00:43:55.708 --> 00:43:56.949
I mean, I never made any money.

00:43:56.949 --> 00:43:57.759
It was really the teaching.

00:43:57.759 --> 00:43:58.608
It was the teaching.

00:43:58.619 --> 00:43:58.849
Yeah.

00:43:58.849 --> 00:44:00.059
The teaching and the mentoring.

00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:00.659
And sure.

00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:02.498
Cause I was doing lots of private mentorship.

00:44:02.539 --> 00:44:03.878
So that's lucrative.

00:44:03.949 --> 00:44:04.329
Yeah.

00:44:04.369 --> 00:44:07.478
And then I was doing big group mentorship and that was lucrative.

00:44:07.478 --> 00:44:16.548
And then as we kind of went toward 2017, 18, 19 before COVID, I was traveling internationally teaching.

00:44:16.668 --> 00:44:17.039
Oh wow.

00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:18.248
And that was very lucrative.

00:44:18.248 --> 00:44:23.208
And are you like, Um, talking from stages and stuff like that at conferences or more, more of the specific teaching?

00:44:23.208 --> 00:44:23.998
Some of that.

00:44:24.018 --> 00:44:35.929
Yeah, some of that, but mostly like going into, uh, like boutique studios and teaching workshops like weekend workshops and then, you know, getting a huge cut for that.

00:44:35.958 --> 00:44:39.889
You know, people pay you, they, they fly you out, they host you, they pay you.

00:44:39.889 --> 00:44:40.898
I mean, you set the terms.

00:44:41.148 --> 00:44:43.048
That's the reason I love being a business owner.

00:44:43.059 --> 00:44:43.369
Yeah, yeah.

00:44:44.278 --> 00:44:46.478
And then you would just stick around and you would.

00:44:46.634 --> 00:44:49.244
Train people privately for a lot of money.

00:44:49.284 --> 00:44:50.443
And so, Oh, wow.

00:44:50.443 --> 00:44:52.284
Almost like a celebrity guest trainer.

00:44:52.304 --> 00:44:53.114
100%.

00:44:54.014 --> 00:44:54.923
So that was great.

00:44:55.643 --> 00:45:00.393
And so I could lean on the book and I can lean on the podcast and I was developing my education.

00:45:00.844 --> 00:45:02.414
I mean, and that's just the truth.

00:45:02.554 --> 00:45:10.083
I mean, I was like at the top, I mean, I had gone as far as I was going to go and I was leveraging it for everything I could.

00:45:10.744 --> 00:45:12.059
Um, Which is great.

00:45:12.208 --> 00:45:13.719
Yeah, know, it was, it was great.

00:45:14.858 --> 00:45:20.429
But then I just was like, I don't, I really, really just don't want to, I want to like keep expanding.

00:45:20.458 --> 00:45:20.679
Right.

00:45:20.688 --> 00:45:27.438
So I was learning more and more about the polyvagal theory and the nervous system and its impact on behavior and behavior change.

00:45:27.458 --> 00:45:31.338
And um, that was like, you know, and Anne and I.

00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:32.119
Hmm.

00:45:32.248 --> 00:45:32.858
And that's like, Yeah.

00:45:33.699 --> 00:45:36.563
Here's the thing that could unlock doors for so many people.

00:45:37.143 --> 00:45:37.844
People just pissed.

00:45:37.844 --> 00:45:37.923
Stuck.

00:45:37.923 --> 00:45:38.403
So many people.

00:45:38.409 --> 00:45:41.648
Every human being it really In every domain.

00:45:41.708 --> 00:45:41.949
Yeah.

00:45:41.949 --> 00:45:43.268
I mean,'cause it applies to.

00:45:43.634 --> 00:45:46.733
And are you still a big, big proponent of the Polyvagal Theory?

00:45:46.733 --> 00:45:47.244
That's the drive.

00:45:47.244 --> 00:45:48.253
This is what I do.

00:45:48.253 --> 00:45:49.523
This is what this is like.

00:45:49.543 --> 00:45:50.934
You're an evangelist about the Yeah, wait for it.

00:45:50.954 --> 00:45:51.403
Wait for it.

00:45:51.414 --> 00:45:51.934
We're getting there.

00:45:51.934 --> 00:45:52.681
Okay.

00:45:52.681 --> 00:45:54.773
We're gonna have a moment.

00:45:55.373 --> 00:45:58.434
I'm finally, finally I'm a Polyvagal Theory advocate.

00:45:58.724 --> 00:45:58.764
Yes.

00:45:58.764 --> 00:46:00.094
Is what my business does.

00:46:00.503 --> 00:46:01.384
Well, that's interesting.

00:46:01.384 --> 00:46:03.108
I've never thought of it that way, but it's true.

00:46:03.108 --> 00:46:09.713
We say Polyvagal Informed, um, so that, you know, Anne and I are doing this thing.

00:46:09.724 --> 00:46:10.934
We were, we had.

00:46:11.148 --> 00:46:13.318
created something called the master's program.

00:46:13.329 --> 00:46:16.878
It was the science and psychology of teaching master's program.

00:46:16.889 --> 00:46:18.009
That was our side hustle.

00:46:18.009 --> 00:46:37.489
And it was a five month program and we brought together, um, her, her expertise in curriculum design that she learned at Harvard, and, um, our huge body of knowledge and experience as, as teachers of the body and of teachers and educators.

00:46:37.489 --> 00:46:44.449
And she had been kind of following the same path and was at the top and had been presenting research at conferences all over the world.

00:46:44.449 --> 00:46:53.239
And, um, so we had this little thing called the master's program and it was really like motivational science, humanistic psychology, brain science.

00:46:53.239 --> 00:47:00.199
I were bringing it all together to teach teachers how to Create better education in their studios.

00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:04.219
And, you know, we taught a lot of, Just stuff that people will receive better.

00:47:04.298 --> 00:47:08.458
Like their members, their students, their people that attend their classes.

00:47:08.458 --> 00:47:12.668
Well, most of the people who were coming to us at that time were teachers of teachers.

00:47:13.068 --> 00:47:13.418
Oh, right.

00:47:13.418 --> 00:47:15.909
So we're now like teachers of teachers who are teaching teachers.

00:47:15.938 --> 00:47:16.438
Right.

00:47:16.628 --> 00:47:17.918
Which is rad.

00:47:17.938 --> 00:47:19.559
It's like, it's a great place.

00:47:19.639 --> 00:47:20.949
Very dynamic.

00:47:20.978 --> 00:47:22.449
Very fun place to be.

00:47:22.489 --> 00:47:24.188
Did it come with, like, pressure?

00:47:24.289 --> 00:47:26.188
Or discomfort?

00:47:26.208 --> 00:47:26.528
No.

00:47:26.568 --> 00:47:30.838
Because you kind of knew you were at the top of the field in some ways, I suppose.

00:47:30.909 --> 00:47:36.039
I've never really been the kind of person that's struggled with, like, imposter syndrome or anything.

00:47:36.088 --> 00:47:45.983
I think, I'm like, I'm just like more of a big vision, like big picture, like, Oh, this thing sounds like I get impassioned and I'm like, I'm going to fucking do this thing.

00:47:45.983 --> 00:47:47.014
So it might as well be me.

00:47:47.043 --> 00:47:48.554
No one knows more about this shit than I do.

00:47:48.753 --> 00:47:51.664
Well, and even if they do, they're not doing anything with it.

00:47:52.284 --> 00:47:54.143
They're just going to sit there and hide it under a basket.

00:47:54.143 --> 00:47:54.623
I don't want it.

00:47:54.963 --> 00:47:56.054
Because the truth is right.

00:47:56.054 --> 00:47:58.554
You don't always have to be the smartest person in the room.

00:47:58.583 --> 00:48:02.114
You just have to be smart enough and be willing to do the thing.

00:48:02.773 --> 00:48:03.864
And my experiences.

00:48:04.469 --> 00:48:06.418
Lots of people are not willing to do the thing.

00:48:06.458 --> 00:48:06.949
That's fair.

00:48:07.018 --> 00:48:07.518
Yeah.

00:48:07.539 --> 00:48:08.588
So it's a real truth.

00:48:08.648 --> 00:48:09.199
It is.

00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:09.559
A hundred percent.

00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:09.778
Yeah.

00:48:09.829 --> 00:48:10.119
Yeah.

00:48:10.119 --> 00:48:13.318
So I never really felt like, I felt like I had a lot of insight.

00:48:13.338 --> 00:48:14.668
I had a lot of education.

00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:15.938
I had a lot of experience.

00:48:15.989 --> 00:48:17.179
I didn't have all the answers.

00:48:17.248 --> 00:48:17.449
Yeah.

00:48:17.688 --> 00:48:20.728
But I've also been very comfortable always with saying, I don't know.

00:48:21.268 --> 00:48:29.539
And I would joke when I would teach, you know, to these big groups of people, I would say, I know more today than I did yesterday and less today than I'll know tomorrow.

00:48:30.278 --> 00:48:33.739
I was like, so, you know, you just got to take me at face value.

00:48:34.048 --> 00:48:38.409
And it's like, if you don't, if you don't believe me, or you're having a hard time getting on board, good for you.

00:48:38.588 --> 00:48:39.923
Go, go, go, go.

00:48:40.494 --> 00:48:41.074
Prove me right.

00:48:41.074 --> 00:48:41.824
Prove me wrong.

00:48:42.233 --> 00:48:44.853
If I don't have an answer, I'll try to get an answer for you.

00:48:44.853 --> 00:48:45.833
Let's learn together.

00:48:45.884 --> 00:48:47.393
Like, I'm not afraid of being wrong.

00:48:47.463 --> 00:48:47.764
Yeah.

00:48:47.974 --> 00:48:58.114
I mean, I don't love it, but so, um, did you guys do this kind of project together for a while and then kind of formalize the partnership on it?

00:48:58.114 --> 00:49:01.184
Yeah, we did it from 2016 to 2019.

00:49:01.643 --> 00:49:04.554
Um, and it was a five month program people would do online.

00:49:04.574 --> 00:49:04.833
So.

00:49:05.278 --> 00:49:18.483
I started creating online education back in like 2014, 2015 when I wrote the book and started the podcast and, um, So I was already creating education and putting it online, which was really before the market got saturated.

00:49:18.483 --> 00:49:23.603
You know, by 2019, 2020, people were like, Oh, another online course.

00:49:23.603 --> 00:49:26.974
Um, but you had a ton of content and a program.

00:49:27.043 --> 00:49:31.974
We had a ton of content and Anne, actually it was one of her specialties was online curriculum design.

00:49:31.974 --> 00:49:35.443
This is something that she had learned at Harvard and it was all neuroscience based.

00:49:35.454 --> 00:49:36.793
Like how does the brain learn?

00:49:36.804 --> 00:49:40.063
How do we optimize learning, particularly in the online space.

00:49:40.063 --> 00:49:45.389
So when COVID hit, We fuckin skyrocketed.

00:49:45.389 --> 00:49:45.849
Blew up.

00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:49.429
And we, literally, we, we were running a program.

00:49:49.438 --> 00:49:50.699
We had launched a program.

00:49:50.699 --> 00:49:52.289
You're like, I think something's wrong.

00:49:52.298 --> 00:49:58.338
The online subscription thing, billing thing is gonna send us 120, 000 from yesterday's sales.

00:49:58.349 --> 00:49:59.809
I mean, it was crazy.

00:50:00.438 --> 00:50:01.039
Or whatever.

00:50:01.039 --> 00:50:01.969
It was, it was crazy.

00:50:02.349 --> 00:50:03.838
Um, and so exciting.

00:50:03.909 --> 00:50:13.969
I mean, because we, we're just hustlers, you know, we're just like following our hearts and we're super driven and, you know, we weren't like making tons of money off this side hustle.

00:50:14.318 --> 00:50:16.909
But, um, I was like, I'm willing to go all in.

00:50:17.324 --> 00:50:21.434
And so I mean, literally COVID hit and we were like, let's pivot quick.

00:50:21.434 --> 00:50:22.724
We spent all of our money.

00:50:22.724 --> 00:50:32.954
We invested in a coaching program and we redesigned our whole program and put it out there and we made almost a hundred thousand dollars on the first launch.

00:50:33.143 --> 00:50:33.594
Wow.

00:50:33.784 --> 00:50:41.123
And this was, it was simply because we had a very specific skill set and everybody had to go online.

00:50:41.844 --> 00:50:43.224
We were just like, yeah.

00:50:43.373 --> 00:50:51.773
Every Pilates teacher in the world, yoga teacher, massage therapist, nutri, like everybody who was doing anything in person Yeah.

00:50:51.804 --> 00:50:56.824
All of a sudden was like, how do I keep making money and not be in person?

00:50:56.914 --> 00:50:58.523
One of our, and we were like, okay.

00:50:58.914 --> 00:51:01.943
One of our long term members had a spin studio.

00:51:02.034 --> 00:51:02.273
Yeah.

00:51:02.333 --> 00:51:06.623
Uh, at the time, or actually the, the wife of one of our members and.

00:51:07.458 --> 00:51:30.398
They had all these Peloton spin bikes with loans on them and stuff, and they ended up like selling their bikes to all their members so that they could pedal from home and then doing the online classes and all these people had the same gear as they did at the headquarters and stuff and their, their members really saved them, um, through kind of spreading the liability of all those bikes around.

00:51:30.458 --> 00:51:31.559
Yeah, that's super smart.

00:51:31.568 --> 00:51:34.009
I mean, people were just obviously like super creative.

00:51:34.094 --> 00:51:34.534
Or not.

00:51:34.784 --> 00:51:35.213
Or not.

00:51:36.603 --> 00:51:49.673
So we, we just got, I think, you know, we got lucky, you know, in a way we were just positioned well and, and we did, we made a lot of good choices and we, we just took off.

00:51:50.054 --> 00:51:54.244
And so, um, the last few years has been interesting.

00:51:54.503 --> 00:51:59.364
And I think for a lot of people, right, businesses change, the world is changing, it's so complex.

00:51:59.364 --> 00:52:03.253
It's harder to make those kind of buying decisions when nobody's mailing you 1, 200.

00:52:03.623 --> 00:52:04.304
Debit cards.

00:52:04.333 --> 00:52:04.893
Yeah.

00:52:05.213 --> 00:52:05.773
Yeah.

00:52:06.213 --> 00:52:08.574
So it's been, it's been fun and it's been great.

00:52:08.583 --> 00:52:10.043
And we keep evolving.

00:52:10.063 --> 00:52:15.943
And I think since then, um, well, and sold her studio finally after 20 years.

00:52:16.244 --> 00:52:20.923
So she was still running her Pilates studio and she's, man, she's just a baller.

00:52:20.934 --> 00:52:25.824
She, she got it through like, you know, the recession, she got it through COVID.

00:52:25.873 --> 00:52:28.083
She sold it and made some money.

00:52:28.083 --> 00:52:28.403
Like, yeah.

00:52:28.563 --> 00:52:37.384
I feel really proud of her, you know, she has just such a nice, she's so gritty, um, which is great in a business partner and she's super savvy.

00:52:37.963 --> 00:52:45.003
Um, so, but we really were like, so after, you know, after that kind of slowed down, we were like, all right, we got to keep pivoting.

00:52:45.014 --> 00:52:46.313
We've got to keep, what do we do now?

00:52:46.353 --> 00:52:46.574
Yeah.

00:52:46.574 --> 00:52:48.554
What's our big value proposition for the world?

00:52:48.713 --> 00:52:48.893
Yeah.

00:52:48.893 --> 00:52:50.204
What do we take from all of this?

00:52:50.414 --> 00:52:50.643
Yeah.

00:52:50.653 --> 00:52:56.844
And how do we keep moving in a direction that is lucrative and also feels like, well, high leverage too.

00:52:56.844 --> 00:52:57.083
Right.

00:52:57.123 --> 00:52:58.034
Like that's part of it.

00:52:58.034 --> 00:53:06.443
Like the, I could see the pride in your eyes when you were like, well, we were teaching the teachers of teachers, you know, and our knowledge was trickling down to many thousands.

00:53:06.483 --> 00:53:06.884
Yeah.

00:53:07.134 --> 00:53:11.603
And that's, you know, I think about, you know, people talk about purpose and everything.

00:53:11.603 --> 00:53:16.693
And I think for me, I really like, I am at the heart, like a teacher.

00:53:17.128 --> 00:53:18.909
I just, I love teaching.

00:53:18.958 --> 00:53:20.559
I get so excited about it.

00:53:20.568 --> 00:53:36.329
Like, and not just teaching, but really educating, like helping people like sink into some depth of understanding about what's possible, especially when you can guide them to change their thinking or get a new bit of information that just like.

00:53:37.739 --> 00:53:38.768
Blows their mind.

00:53:38.969 --> 00:53:39.128
Yeah.

00:53:39.128 --> 00:53:41.028
Yeah, it's so it's what I'm all about.

00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:48.628
I mean everything that I do I feel like it comes back to that and so Yeah, not to interrupt.

00:53:48.628 --> 00:53:49.858
I find that very interesting.

00:53:49.858 --> 00:54:03.753
I describe myself as a as an inch deep and a mile wide So I know so I didn't know much about Pilates and it was one of those very Small number of relative gaps where I just don't really know much but usually I know a little just enough.

00:54:03.773 --> 00:54:12.264
Yeah And Alma who you met just yeah, you're here She's been really working on this software called monday.

00:54:12.454 --> 00:54:13.253
com lately.

00:54:13.304 --> 00:54:13.494
Oh, yeah.

00:54:13.494 --> 00:54:13.943
I've heard of it.

00:54:13.974 --> 00:54:22.103
She's got, you know, the promise to be a very strong operations Executive someday if she wants to like she's just really got a Great brain.

00:54:22.114 --> 00:54:25.893
Yeah, and she's a you know, she went to like one semester of college.

00:54:25.903 --> 00:54:46.969
She's a high school graduate She's 21 years old and just seeing her and and she worked for like two hours today on a hard problem that she Showed me the string of fail fail fail and then she figured it out finally right before I got back from lunch And I'm just like dang you grew in your skills so much, so exciting, you're gonna be marketable to other people soon here.

00:54:47.018 --> 00:54:48.009
Yeah, it's great.

00:54:48.018 --> 00:54:49.039
What makes me overjoyed.

00:54:49.318 --> 00:54:57.418
To totally be a part of helping her find her special talent and expand upon them.

00:54:57.509 --> 00:55:01.523
Yeah, I mean, when you help people expand their capacity for being special.

00:55:02.043 --> 00:55:04.423
fully integrated, awesome humans.

00:55:04.813 --> 00:55:06.364
There just really is nothing better.

00:55:06.704 --> 00:55:11.333
And so like, that's, you know, that's like the essence of our business now.

00:55:11.333 --> 00:55:15.393
We, we, that's why we kind of say like, we work in three lanes.

00:55:16.074 --> 00:55:19.434
So education, business and behavior change.

00:55:19.643 --> 00:55:21.403
And still mostly with the health.

00:55:22.503 --> 00:55:23.623
Provider types?

00:55:23.664 --> 00:55:28.523
Well, our, just our audience keeps expanding, expanding, expanding, which has been the goal.

00:55:28.923 --> 00:55:30.934
Um, and that's not particularly easy.

00:55:31.364 --> 00:55:32.583
Um, right.

00:55:32.583 --> 00:55:39.273
Well, if you stay with the nutritionists and the chiropractors and the stuff like that, it's kind of a narrower scope, right?

00:55:39.293 --> 00:55:42.498
So we've been, um, businesses.

00:55:42.498 --> 00:55:47.219
It's evolving kind of is serving now different groups of people.

00:55:47.539 --> 00:56:11.389
Our education is still targeted at, um, primarily people who are in somatics, so body based stuff, whether it's, you know, Pilates, yoga, What physical therapy, you know, occupational therapy, who have a body of expertise, they have a body of knowledge, and they want to take it and create online education for their clients or for their staff.

00:56:11.838 --> 00:56:18.068
Um, and we have very, very specific, very unique way of helping people do that because we know how the brain learns.

00:56:18.353 --> 00:56:34.483
We also know the value of having an embodied experience, so you're not just thinking about things intellectually, but you're tapping into like, well, how does it feel to me in my body to, you know, learn a thing or be, do I like to learn individually?

00:56:34.494 --> 00:56:35.893
Do I like to learn in a group?

00:56:35.923 --> 00:56:50.378
How do I, It all kind of comes back to like psychological safety and creating containers of, um, curiosity and safety where people feel like they can learn and they can contribute and they can be in discourse with others.

00:56:50.389 --> 00:56:58.079
It's like a very special recipe to make learning really poignant and with what we talk about is transformative.

00:56:58.489 --> 00:57:01.324
Like, we don't want to just get Right.

00:57:01.324 --> 00:57:04.043
We actually want you to be transformed by the information.

00:57:04.094 --> 00:57:06.594
Well, and that was, the word I keyed on there was the discourse.

00:57:06.653 --> 00:57:07.054
Yeah.

00:57:07.134 --> 00:57:11.824
So there's like some interaction between the students and one another or different ways?

00:57:11.974 --> 00:57:12.293
Totally.

00:57:12.304 --> 00:57:13.893
Or just them to the school, them to the teachers?

00:57:13.903 --> 00:57:15.184
All, all of the things.

00:57:15.494 --> 00:57:25.764
So it's a just, again, it's like a very specific, special recipe on how, so we lean on something called universal design for learning, which is based on how the brain learns.

00:57:26.429 --> 00:57:29.239
And it has a lot of different components.

00:57:29.628 --> 00:57:34.128
Um, and one is like, how do we learn, you know, we need to create.

00:57:34.349 --> 00:57:42.128
So usually when a, a student fails or a person who is in the learning position fails, it's not because of them.

00:57:42.188 --> 00:57:47.300
It's because of the, it's because of the container that's been created for them.

00:57:47.789 --> 00:57:48.768
The information.

00:57:48.978 --> 00:57:49.289
Yeah.

00:57:49.659 --> 00:57:50.199
And so.

00:57:51.003 --> 00:58:00.653
It's really important that you're building these containers for education in a specific way that offers, as an example, variability for the learner.

00:58:00.994 --> 00:58:06.443
So the learner has to feel like they have choice and advocacy as to how they learn.

00:58:06.773 --> 00:58:11.014
So, uh, one simple example of that would be if you.

00:58:11.134 --> 00:58:16.983
make a video, you should have a transcript also available and you should have an audio file also available.

00:58:17.483 --> 00:58:19.534
And so that's learner variability.

00:58:19.554 --> 00:58:25.943
There's a, there's a very common myth about like, I am a kinesthetic learner or I am a visual learner.

00:58:25.943 --> 00:58:28.503
We talk about like, what kind of learner are you?

00:58:28.503 --> 00:58:30.273
The truth is you are all the learners.

00:58:30.713 --> 00:58:31.773
You're all the types.

00:58:32.153 --> 00:58:40.534
And it depends on the context and the, and the information that's being given to you and any particular given day as to what.

00:58:40.909 --> 00:58:44.329
kind of learning mechanism is going to support you best.

00:58:44.858 --> 00:58:45.268
Interesting.

00:58:45.268 --> 00:58:57.469
So we do tend to kind of over time develop, uh, tendencies toward learning more visually or auditorily or, you know, kinesthetically right through, through hands on, um, but.

00:58:57.759 --> 00:59:01.239
The truth is we are learning in all of the ways, all of the time.

00:59:01.579 --> 00:59:03.429
So that's like our secret sauce.

00:59:03.429 --> 00:59:05.528
So we still are doing that.

00:59:05.568 --> 00:59:14.608
We help people turn their expertise and bodies of knowledge into really poignant education so they can increase their revenue and profit.

00:59:14.778 --> 00:59:21.469
So it all comes back to, you know, how do we create an ecosystem for your business, which includes education?

00:59:21.809 --> 00:59:24.539
And how does that education support your other offers?

00:59:24.849 --> 00:59:32.969
So everything becomes, you know, It's a program to turn your content into good online stuff.

00:59:32.989 --> 00:59:36.648
Yeah, which supports people then doing whatever else you want them to do.

00:59:36.898 --> 00:59:48.909
Because when you can really provide a transformation for somebody, when you can clearly say you started here at point A, and now you're here at point B, and you can see the difference.

00:59:48.909 --> 00:59:51.469
It's in motivational science that's called discrepancy.

00:59:51.809 --> 00:59:55.159
So I have to be aware of where I'm at, or where I was.

00:59:55.449 --> 00:59:57.028
And where I am now.

00:59:57.219 --> 00:59:59.568
And that motivates me to take the next step.

00:59:59.918 --> 01:00:04.239
If I don't have that clarity, I, I'm like, I'm going to lose interest.

01:00:04.259 --> 01:00:09.298
There's too many competing, you know, desires and, and, uh, you know, responsibilities.

01:00:09.298 --> 01:00:16.228
So the goal is like when you can transform somebody, then, then they're hooked.

01:00:16.228 --> 01:00:23.748
Well, and like, I'm thinking back to a conversation I had with a strategic planning guy and one of the really hard things.

01:00:24.304 --> 01:00:31.563
about strategic planning in general is a, a fair minded assessment of the actual where we are today.

01:00:31.603 --> 01:00:32.123
Yeah.

01:00:32.224 --> 01:00:32.643
Right?

01:00:32.653 --> 01:00:47.903
And I guess the question I would spring from that is, like, are you taking some sort of an assessment when you, when you're trying to say this, this future self is different than the current self, that's that transition or transformation that we accomplished?

01:00:48.349 --> 01:00:56.148
Are you, like, uptaking a certain amount of data as far as who they are, how their business is working now, what are the goal, goal stakes or whatever?

01:00:56.148 --> 01:01:03.228
Yeah, so that's actually a very interesting component because assessment is one of the key components of universal design for learning.

01:01:03.378 --> 01:01:03.679
Okay.

01:01:03.739 --> 01:01:13.293
So you have to assess, and there are so many ways to assess, and there are so many ways to gather metrics and data, and we lean on all kinds of things depending on what the data is.

01:01:13.463 --> 01:01:17.423
Like what kind of education it is that the person is doing and what the outcome is.

01:01:17.423 --> 01:01:21.364
And, um, but it is a hundred percent it's from the beginning.

01:01:21.403 --> 01:01:23.364
You're having people assess in different ways.

01:01:23.384 --> 01:01:39.268
And then we have built as a business, we just do so many cool things we have, we have built, um, assessments for the business owners that we work with to evaluate their, um, strategy from a nervous system perspective.

01:01:39.599 --> 01:01:41.148
So, that, right?

01:01:41.168 --> 01:01:42.998
That's like, open up that can of worms.

01:01:44.119 --> 01:01:47.039
Like their business strategy from a nervous system perspective?

01:01:47.139 --> 01:01:51.559
Yeah, so how do they react and respond to different, um, areas of their business.

01:01:51.619 --> 01:01:58.119
And so what it helps us to assess, um, and make them aware of is where what are they leaning into?

01:01:58.119 --> 01:01:59.358
And what are they turning away from?

01:01:59.358 --> 01:01:59.389
Right?

01:02:00.139 --> 01:02:12.398
Because your nervous system, basically, like, the truth is, and we know this via science now is that your nervous system is this thing that is working all the time, under the surface, unconsciously.

01:02:12.659 --> 01:02:17.699
And it is primarily gathering information from how your body is reacting to stimulus.

01:02:18.478 --> 01:02:22.219
And it's sending your brain a message that says, I'm safe, I'm safe, I'm safe.

01:02:22.449 --> 01:02:31.688
And therefore, I can be relaxed, I can make eye contact, I can communicate well, I can facially express, I can creatively problem solve.

01:02:31.688 --> 01:02:34.989
I can be in conflict and not be aggressive.

01:02:35.409 --> 01:02:40.088
Like when our nervous systems feel safe, the fucking, the world is our oyster.

01:02:40.179 --> 01:02:40.449
Okay.

01:02:40.449 --> 01:02:47.248
You know, we have greater capacity for joy, for compassion, for empathy, for being with others, for connecting.

01:02:47.688 --> 01:02:59.458
But when the nervous system says, and I'm talking about unconscious, you're not thinking this, you're feeling this, when your nervous system is not feeling safe, you're, you.

01:02:59.744 --> 01:03:05.403
Like, literally, if you notice, this will be an interesting experiment, your voice will become more monotone.

01:03:05.724 --> 01:03:08.684
You will stop making expressions through your face.

01:03:08.693 --> 01:03:12.764
You will often, like, retract or remove yourself from a situation.

01:03:12.773 --> 01:03:17.603
You'll literally sit back in your seat or move away from the person.

01:03:17.943 --> 01:03:24.974
You, um, see, when your nervous system is not safe, it says something to your brain.

01:03:25.289 --> 01:03:34.219
And your brain, it's like information is coming up to your brain and your brain is going, okay, how do I, I need to be defensive because I'm now at risk.

01:03:34.608 --> 01:03:46.768
And so what happens like at the prefrontal cortex is that your capacity for, um, cognitive like problem solving and, um, analytical thinking is shrinking and shrinking and shrinking.

01:03:46.809 --> 01:03:55.164
And so, because When your nervous system, it's so, it's, it's so, um, fundamentally evolutionary.

01:03:55.474 --> 01:04:05.778
And so, just think about, like, thousands of years ago, if there was an animal that was about to eat you, and The only thing you want to see or hear is the animal.

01:04:05.809 --> 01:04:09.809
It's almost like a large language model, a little bit.

01:04:09.818 --> 01:04:17.079
Like it's learning from all these kind of like, based on this word and the ones before it, the next one is this.

01:04:17.079 --> 01:04:17.228
Yes.

01:04:17.228 --> 01:04:33.418
And the nervous system is saying, well, based on these stimuli and these responses that I've created, Accumulated the data from yes, I you know, I I don't enjoy it when I'm slogging through email and I've got too much communications Yes, it makes me avoid going to work on time.

01:04:33.429 --> 01:04:35.228
Yes, or feeling good about going to work.

01:04:35.239 --> 01:04:35.639
Yes.

01:04:35.679 --> 01:04:36.664
Yes Podcast.

01:04:36.664 --> 01:04:37.873
Oh good.

01:04:37.873 --> 01:04:39.309
I get to have a podcast.

01:04:39.309 --> 01:04:41.838
I get to meet somebody new today, right?

01:04:41.838 --> 01:04:49.539
And so that's one reason I have a administrative assistant that turns my hundred daily emails into 20 20, right?

01:04:49.918 --> 01:04:53.659
And that takes a lot of cognitive load off of my brain.

01:04:53.659 --> 01:04:55.898
No, I've got to get rid of 60 or 80.

01:04:56.838 --> 01:05:07.989
Cranky emails and yeah, right, especially like, especially if you have had an experience somewhere in your life that makes you averse to the email thing.

01:05:08.159 --> 01:05:08.469
Right.

01:05:08.489 --> 01:05:09.639
Not everybody has that.

01:05:09.648 --> 01:05:16.188
Most of us do because it is tedious and it does feel like, you know, you're going to open an email and there's a problem there.

01:05:16.199 --> 01:05:16.438
Right.

01:05:16.438 --> 01:05:25.938
Well, we, well, I certainly had problems where I like, even just today I got, I dug back down to an email where somebody said they would love to be on the podcast on July 16th.

01:05:26.684 --> 01:05:31.954
Well, I was back in June, I didn't reply to them, it's like I booked somebody else for tomorrow.

01:05:31.983 --> 01:05:32.333
Oh shit.

01:05:32.934 --> 01:05:39.773
You know, so, like, so there's this, and he's one of my members besides, so there's a person that pays me every month to be in my little club thing.

01:05:40.594 --> 01:05:44.713
And then I'm like, Oh, sorry, I dissed you on that.

01:05:44.938 --> 01:05:45.518
Yeah.

01:05:45.539 --> 01:05:45.898
Email conversation.

01:05:45.949 --> 01:05:46.599
Yeah.

01:05:46.639 --> 01:05:53.409
So it's all, that's just such a great example though, because it's just unconsciously always dictating behavior.

01:05:53.989 --> 01:05:55.829
Right, you don't want to do that.

01:05:56.219 --> 01:06:07.449
And so it's not so fascinating because it's not just, so a lot of the way we behave is, this is the, this is the thing I always say.

01:06:07.809 --> 01:06:09.318
So when you were a child.

01:06:09.518 --> 01:06:09.818
Right.

01:06:09.829 --> 01:06:16.969
You're learning to behave to stimulus in the world and you're literally your neuroanatomy is shaping.

01:06:16.998 --> 01:06:18.148
So your brain is shaping.

01:06:18.148 --> 01:06:24.559
The function of your brain is shaping and it's shaping through this lens of the stimuli that you are being exposed to.

01:06:24.639 --> 01:06:39.139
So what gets me a pat on the head and what makes me feel shamed, what makes me feel guilt, what makes me feel loved, what makes me feel accepted, internal stimuli, more, no, it's definitely, it's primarily, but from people, you feel it based on your perception of them, but it's.

01:06:39.648 --> 01:06:54.548
Internally, rather than like, you're not, you're not performing for the crowd so much as you're performing for your own feelings, the way that other people's stimulated comes from external to you comes into you, but it's not, it's how the makes you feel.

01:06:54.608 --> 01:06:54.978
Yeah.

01:06:54.978 --> 01:06:56.398
So you actually drives.

01:06:56.429 --> 01:06:56.768
Yeah.

01:06:56.768 --> 01:07:07.668
So what happens is like you, you are exposed to something, somebody says something and it's not like the thing, you know, we've heard a lot is like, it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

01:07:07.668 --> 01:07:07.909
Yeah.

01:07:07.909 --> 01:07:08.088
Yeah.

01:07:08.139 --> 01:07:08.909
We now have like.

01:07:09.099 --> 01:07:14.559
Actual science that says that's the your body responds to tonality.

01:07:14.628 --> 01:07:18.358
Yeah, and something called prosody Which is like it's a combination of things.

01:07:18.358 --> 01:07:18.878
It's Tona.

01:07:18.878 --> 01:07:38.128
It's intonation and and like volume you think so exactly Like I love you Versus like I love you, you know, so we are we are taking in all of this stimulus And we're making meaning out of it, but we're making meaning out of it from our tiny child brain.

01:07:38.659 --> 01:07:46.248
But basically it's like, okay, now I have this, I have this like stained glass and I'm interpreting the world through.

01:07:46.268 --> 01:07:46.518
Right.

01:07:46.588 --> 01:07:51.958
I'm, I'm, there's a stimulus, I'm responding to the stimulus, I'm making meaning out of the stimulus.

01:07:52.309 --> 01:08:02.563
And then, oh, there's another color, there's another shape, there's another, it's like, so what happens as we get older, is we're perceiving through this stained glass.

01:08:02.563 --> 01:08:11.224
Our nervous system is responding and it's going through this stained glass of interpretation and perception and the brain's going, Oh, that means that person is.

01:08:11.568 --> 01:08:32.599
This and that, or that means I'm this and that, or that means now I'm gonna, I have to be defensive and I'm gonna respond this way, you know, like in my family, my, there's a, there is a learned behavior that I am just, I think, on the other side of, which is just incredible defensiveness, which I learned from my mom, love her to death.

01:08:32.719 --> 01:08:37.609
And what I know now is it was a mechanism of defense for herself.

01:08:37.939 --> 01:08:38.769
And I learned it.

01:08:39.509 --> 01:08:43.878
It's, I don't want to be that way, but I literally learned it.

01:08:43.878 --> 01:08:54.628
I could feel it in my body because I was responding to her body language and her, and then I learned how to say a thing that sounds defensive.

01:08:55.009 --> 01:08:58.359
And so we learn these behaviors and it's automatic.

01:08:58.359 --> 01:09:01.899
It's unconscious until we bring it up to the consciousness.

01:09:02.368 --> 01:09:06.998
Until we literally go, Oh, Oh, I can, I can feel my heart racing.

01:09:07.019 --> 01:09:09.618
I can feel my, you know, stomach gripping.

01:09:09.618 --> 01:09:11.349
I can feel myself tensing.

01:09:11.349 --> 01:09:13.198
I can feel myself backing away.

01:09:14.238 --> 01:09:15.559
Oh, I'm doing that thing.

01:09:16.118 --> 01:09:21.838
I'm about to be defensive, I'm about to say a thing, but that's like, that takes a lot of awareness.

01:09:21.868 --> 01:09:24.378
Mostly it's like, Oh, I'm fucking freaking out.

01:09:25.229 --> 01:09:28.538
And then you have a little awareness in the background and you're like, Oh, I'm fucking freaking out.

01:09:28.538 --> 01:09:29.498
I wish I wasn't doing that.

01:09:29.498 --> 01:09:40.118
But you're still doing it because your whole body is like attuned to freaking out over this particular stimulus and you don't actually have control over it.

01:09:40.554 --> 01:09:42.533
Because it's such a learned behavior.

01:09:43.134 --> 01:09:49.654
But the learned behavior is rooted in how your nervous system has historically responded.

01:09:49.694 --> 01:09:50.213
Yeah.

01:09:50.394 --> 01:09:55.043
And even just like that funny walk you learned from your dad or whatever that you can change that.

01:09:55.703 --> 01:09:55.984
Yes.

01:09:55.993 --> 01:09:56.604
Similarly.

01:09:57.488 --> 01:10:14.929
Yeah, you can change the way your nervous system, so the interesting thing is like, you got to become aware of it so that you can create a little bit of space between the way you're used to behaving and reacting and saying, Oh, look, this is just my body doing a thing.

01:10:15.998 --> 01:10:19.759
Oh, that's going to like make me freak the fuck out in a second.

01:10:19.859 --> 01:10:26.694
Or I can take a couple of deep breaths or do these like simple things and I can support myself by Yeah.

01:10:27.713 --> 01:10:37.654
Walking out of the room, taking a moment and saying like, I can't have this conversation with you right now, or I love you and I need a, I need a moment, I need a break or whatever the strategy is.

01:10:37.663 --> 01:10:45.234
But it starts with recognizing like, because your body is like, yeah, it's so much wisdom and so much intelligence.

01:10:45.283 --> 01:10:52.203
If you just listen to it, then, then you can do something to start to change it.

01:10:52.873 --> 01:10:57.804
Because the truth is like, if we take trauma for, like, this is the biggest example, right?

01:10:58.708 --> 01:10:59.689
somebody has a trauma.

01:11:00.338 --> 01:11:04.338
Um, and so like my car accident in 2020.

01:11:04.679 --> 01:11:11.298
Um, I had been riding motorcycles for six or seven years and, you know, driving for a very long time.

01:11:11.378 --> 01:11:11.668
Sure.

01:11:11.849 --> 01:11:13.208
And sure.

01:11:13.208 --> 01:11:26.179
It was, it was intense and it was traumatic and it was like kind of a car accident, car accident, but, and then I, you know, like I processed it and I had already this body of knowledge of like, Oh, my body is doing this thing.

01:11:26.179 --> 01:11:29.538
And I'm aware of like, I'm in a trauma response and I could.

01:11:29.868 --> 01:11:32.899
Notice it, but it still, it's still there.

01:11:33.524 --> 01:11:41.923
Like I still, like my experience of riding motorcycles now is a little different than it was before the accident.

01:11:41.963 --> 01:11:46.833
There's a little bit more, I can feel my body just like, I'm a little more tense.

01:11:46.913 --> 01:11:49.913
I'm a little bit more worried than I was before.

01:11:50.253 --> 01:11:53.724
Even though, I'm a very safe rider.

01:11:53.743 --> 01:11:55.224
I'm in safe circumstances.

01:11:55.224 --> 01:12:15.923
Like I am safe, but my body is like, Oh, but there's something that happened to us that gets triggered when I'm in a car, not so much when I'm in a car anymore, but sometimes when I'm on the motorcycle, but I know now, I mean, like, I know I have the awareness, like, Oh, this is not accurate.

01:12:15.953 --> 01:12:18.304
Like I'm not accurately responding.

01:12:18.934 --> 01:12:20.833
So I have to like, calm myself down.

01:12:20.833 --> 01:12:21.274
Yeah.

01:12:21.578 --> 01:12:29.748
So, when we have trauma, right, it colors that stained glass even more and then we can get stuck when there's serious trauma.

01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:42.618
We can get stuck in the trauma loop, you know, where we're just, we're reliving the experience even when there is not stimulus or stimuli that is accurately putting us in danger.

01:12:42.698 --> 01:12:45.139
So, I'm thinking of a song lyric right now.

01:12:45.738 --> 01:12:47.509
Uh, it might be sublime.

01:12:47.884 --> 01:12:49.623
Okay, I'm so bad at this, I'm not going to know.

01:12:49.804 --> 01:12:55.493
I saw red, I saw red, one more And it's that, that notion of seeing red.

01:12:55.514 --> 01:12:56.073
Totally.

01:12:56.123 --> 01:12:58.583
Right, you can't actually see clearly.

01:12:58.583 --> 01:13:03.814
We, we had a speaker in a loco chapter years ago that talked about kind of the getting up on the balcony.

01:13:03.953 --> 01:13:04.293
Mm hmm.

01:13:04.304 --> 01:13:06.474
Like leaving the reptile trauma response brain behind.

01:13:06.484 --> 01:13:07.793
Yes, I've heard that, I've heard that.

01:13:07.814 --> 01:13:10.463
And kind of create enough separation so you can try to see clearly.

01:13:11.014 --> 01:13:16.469
And that's kind of just the, it's basically the same thing that you're talking about and it's the opposite of Yes.

01:13:16.779 --> 01:13:26.748
Like we've seen, especially videos on the internet these days and stuff, where some Karen goes and gets herself pushed out because she's being a crazy bee or whatever.

01:13:26.748 --> 01:13:30.738
Like they just can't think rationally because of the circumstance.

01:13:30.788 --> 01:13:31.009
Yeah.

01:13:31.009 --> 01:13:35.319
I mean, that's the, that's, so that's like kind of the domain we're really working in these days.

01:13:35.319 --> 01:13:41.024
It's like, how do we, so we, we, How do we find those blocks?

01:13:41.054 --> 01:13:57.163
Well, the newest emergent piece of our business is working with, with people who are, um, working in organizational development, change and transition and working with founders and working with entrepreneurs who are scaling and preparing for selling or whatever they might be doing.

01:13:57.564 --> 01:14:13.338
And, um, How do you leverage this knowledge of the nervous system and its link to behavior so that you can help a leader navigate change and lead their team more effectively and, and manage all of these things?

01:14:13.349 --> 01:14:17.509
Because we were just talking to, we're working with a really great company right now.

01:14:17.833 --> 01:14:35.514
We're doing nervous system training with them, and they work directly with leaders who are in change and transition and One of them was sharing with us like we we've got one leader Who's very flexible who's like bringing new ideas to the table who is you know?

01:14:35.514 --> 01:14:44.009
Kind of super on board and I was like, oh, yes, it's because they're They feel safe in this environment, you know, they, they, the change does not make them feel vulnerable.

01:14:44.378 --> 01:14:44.429
Does it?

01:14:44.469 --> 01:14:47.618
So, so they're like experience is optimized.

01:14:47.708 --> 01:14:50.439
They're like fully creative, they're energized there.

01:14:50.738 --> 01:14:57.559
But then they have another leader who is like combative and resistant against anything new.

01:14:57.578 --> 01:15:05.564
Yeah, because so this is the interesting insight was their experience of this leader is like It's a death of something.

01:15:05.944 --> 01:15:10.913
It's like, their business, they weren't, they didn't disclose the business, so I don't know what the domain is.

01:15:10.934 --> 01:15:20.163
But, um, They, it's like, it's everything to them so that it's the death of something and they're moving into some other transition.

01:15:20.184 --> 01:15:22.644
And so I was like, yes, of course.

01:15:22.644 --> 01:15:34.323
Like when you see it that way, your nervous system goes into high defense mode, which I'm not learning nothing new right now, which is like, I, I can't, my brain can't return.

01:15:34.363 --> 01:15:34.594
Yeah.

01:15:35.283 --> 01:15:38.333
So what's interesting is like, literally we see less.

01:15:38.958 --> 01:15:48.809
We hear less, our capacity to problem solve is less, like literally all of our capacities physiologically shrink, including the way our brain is able to work.

01:15:48.819 --> 01:15:49.149
Huh.

01:15:49.168 --> 01:15:49.448
So.

01:15:49.769 --> 01:15:53.849
Almost like a constriction of blood vessels would shrink off your, your heart's capacity.

01:15:53.859 --> 01:15:54.309
Yeah.

01:15:54.309 --> 01:15:54.738
To do stuff or whatever.

01:15:54.748 --> 01:15:56.838
Well, and it has impact on the heart.

01:15:56.849 --> 01:16:01.009
It has impact on all of our six major physiological, you know, systems.

01:16:01.069 --> 01:16:01.359
Yeah.

01:16:01.509 --> 01:16:02.088
And so.

01:16:02.088 --> 01:16:02.158
So.

01:16:02.679 --> 01:16:03.849
It's just fascinating.

01:16:03.849 --> 01:16:12.689
It's like, well, how can this information, you're not going to like necessarily teach your leaders this, although we do teach people how to do this work with their teams and whatnot.

01:16:13.509 --> 01:16:22.029
But it's like, how does this information help you better understand the process that they're going through, which is not just systems.

01:16:22.029 --> 01:16:24.769
It's not just about, you know, strategy.

01:16:24.899 --> 01:16:26.368
It's not just about frameworks.

01:16:26.738 --> 01:16:34.264
It's like, I love, I listened to a couple of the podcasts, um, and I was listening to the one with Jill Simmons.

01:16:34.264 --> 01:16:34.833
Jill Simons.

01:16:34.844 --> 01:16:35.253
Simons.

01:16:35.253 --> 01:16:35.413
Yeah.

01:16:35.804 --> 01:16:44.764
And she said something about EOS, which I, I was like, I kind of, uh, grabbed onto, which is something about managing human something.

01:16:44.774 --> 01:16:45.083
Yeah.

01:16:45.083 --> 01:16:46.413
Capability or capacity.

01:16:46.423 --> 01:16:46.444
Yeah.

01:16:47.003 --> 01:16:48.243
I was like, Oh my gosh.

01:16:48.708 --> 01:16:50.048
She's like totally speaking my language.

01:16:50.048 --> 01:16:50.819
Yeah, yeah.

01:16:51.038 --> 01:16:52.889
Well, you get people to want to do the things.

01:16:52.899 --> 01:17:05.139
Yeah, but how does it, we just have such an antiquated way, I think, in my opinion, of dealing, we think about it so much from this intellectual, strategic framework perspective.

01:17:05.849 --> 01:17:08.378
It's like, but you're ignoring.

01:17:08.734 --> 01:17:23.014
90 percent of the intelligence that actually exists within you that can help improve the way we create systems, how we implement, how we integrate, how we create, you know, better culture within our businesses and organizations.

01:17:23.444 --> 01:17:32.323
So we were asking this group, these women, like, how does this information better support you?

01:17:32.323 --> 01:17:34.024
You have this understanding.

01:17:34.104 --> 01:17:34.844
Does it give you?

01:17:35.024 --> 01:17:36.854
You more empathy, more compassion.

01:17:36.854 --> 01:17:45.863
Does it open up different ideas for you to work with this leader and not just think he's an a hole, but like, like, how do you get his brain to work better?

01:17:45.913 --> 01:17:46.224
Right.

01:17:46.373 --> 01:17:47.873
You, you're not trying to be an a hole.

01:17:47.873 --> 01:17:48.014
No.

01:17:48.694 --> 01:17:49.344
Poor guy.

01:17:49.354 --> 01:17:55.154
He's like, you know, he's like, from feeling threatened, under equipped in some ways, you know, industry has changed.

01:17:55.173 --> 01:17:56.484
He's still got to be the leader.

01:17:56.573 --> 01:17:59.484
And he's super defensive and he's, he's struggling.

01:17:59.484 --> 01:18:00.243
So how do we.

01:18:00.639 --> 01:18:07.639
How do we, if you have this body of knowledge, if you have this information, you can do incredible things to get, to help.

01:18:07.849 --> 01:18:14.219
I mean, on every level, as I said before, but what we're really doing and interested in right now in our business is working with.

01:18:14.234 --> 01:18:19.623
Yeah.

01:18:19.703 --> 01:18:24.974
Um, you should definitely listen to my podcast episode number 41 with Allison Seebeck.

01:18:25.104 --> 01:18:25.463
Okay.

01:18:25.634 --> 01:18:31.453
Uh, she's my facilitator of the, kind of the right hand employees of our larger.

01:18:31.634 --> 01:18:31.993
Okay.

01:18:32.323 --> 01:18:36.724
clients, but she joined a company called ProSci based here in Fort Collins.

01:18:36.724 --> 01:18:41.613
It was, they did change management before that was a thing really, before it had a name.

01:18:42.054 --> 01:18:49.354
And uh, she ascended to become the, the president to take over from the founder when he sold a private equity when she was 29.

01:18:49.503 --> 01:18:49.993
Oh my gosh.

01:18:50.024 --> 01:18:54.573
And the company was like a bunch of old 55 year old white dudes, just like your early career.

01:18:54.573 --> 01:18:54.833
Yeah.

01:18:55.314 --> 01:18:58.083
Um, and Allison really isn't scared of nothing.

01:18:58.123 --> 01:19:05.104
And she's so open to other people's ideas and things whilst knowing a bad idea when she hears it.

01:19:05.713 --> 01:19:09.993
Um, and uh, Sounds like a very settled nervous system to me.

01:19:09.993 --> 01:19:10.453
Yes.

01:19:10.463 --> 01:19:10.554
Flexible.

01:19:10.554 --> 01:19:24.708
Well, and she was a linguist by education and just kind of the knowledge of, of, of of how we interact with each other's, what the words that we use, um, and you guys should connect like next time you come visit Colorado or something, I should, I'll make an introduction and I would love that.

01:19:24.759 --> 01:19:26.198
You would probably love each other quite a bit.

01:19:26.248 --> 01:19:27.009
Yeah, I love that.

01:19:27.078 --> 01:19:28.529
Well, I'm here, I'm here all the time.

01:19:30.118 --> 01:19:34.748
So yeah, and do listen to that episode, but I'll make an introduction shortly.

01:19:34.849 --> 01:19:35.338
I'd love it.

01:19:36.269 --> 01:19:36.359
That's great.

01:19:36.359 --> 01:19:55.033
Um, If there were like a couple, three things like hot tips for people trying to change themselves, you know, uh, your, your programs and topics are very kind of teaching teachers kind of thing, but just an average listener that's like, you know what, I'm convinced she's right.

01:19:55.043 --> 01:20:01.934
The nervous system does indeed drive my behavior and that's what makes me succeed or fail more than I care to admit.

01:20:02.123 --> 01:20:02.533
Yeah.

01:20:02.713 --> 01:20:06.894
Uh, I mean, I think the first thing I would just invite people to do is be curious.

01:20:06.894 --> 01:20:06.953
Thanks.

01:20:07.128 --> 01:20:07.389
Hmm.

01:20:07.628 --> 01:20:18.038
It's just to be curious, like, you know, without getting into a lot of the science that there, there are, I mean, you know, the fight or flight state, you know, the rest and digest state.

01:20:18.038 --> 01:20:21.328
Like it was a very primitive way of understanding the nervous system.

01:20:22.123 --> 01:20:28.014
But, um, we basically are in a position from a nervous system perspective to connect.

01:20:28.543 --> 01:20:30.134
And so it's called social engagement.

01:20:30.134 --> 01:20:37.573
It's actually the newest evolutionary, um, aspect of the vagus nerve and it, it, it radiates like kind of from the chest up.

01:20:37.634 --> 01:20:43.743
So literally the nerve innervates the face, the eyes, the larynx, the pharynx, the middle ear.

01:20:43.743 --> 01:20:45.234
And things like eye contact feed that.

01:20:45.323 --> 01:20:45.684
Yes.

01:20:45.703 --> 01:20:46.304
I suspect.

01:20:46.344 --> 01:20:46.734
Yes.

01:20:46.993 --> 01:20:48.404
And so when, yeah.

01:20:48.404 --> 01:20:50.113
When we, we, when we are in a.

01:20:51.328 --> 01:20:53.679
So when we feel safe, we can do that.

01:20:54.248 --> 01:20:58.859
You know, we can smile, we can laugh, we can be present, we can connect.

01:20:59.378 --> 01:21:04.429
And then we move toward fight or flight, which is a sympathetic response.

01:21:04.429 --> 01:21:05.639
It's mobilization.

01:21:06.099 --> 01:21:10.738
Uh, so we're either gonna run into the thing or we're gonna run away from the thing.

01:21:10.788 --> 01:21:11.979
Yeah, yeah.

01:21:11.979 --> 01:21:12.288
Right.

01:21:12.298 --> 01:21:12.868
From front of the dragon.

01:21:12.939 --> 01:21:13.429
Yeah.

01:21:13.719 --> 01:21:18.918
So, so there is this, we sometimes talk about it as like an I can energy.

01:21:18.918 --> 01:21:19.748
It's like, I'm gonna.

01:21:20.109 --> 01:21:21.319
I'm going to do something.

01:21:21.319 --> 01:21:22.698
I'm highly mobilized.

01:21:23.099 --> 01:21:27.149
And there's actually a really healthy range of that where we need that.

01:21:27.179 --> 01:21:28.469
We need to be mobilized.

01:21:28.469 --> 01:21:30.418
We need to have, feel confident.

01:21:30.429 --> 01:21:32.389
We need to feel like I can tackle a problem.

01:21:32.389 --> 01:21:34.599
I can, you know, do what needs to be done.

01:21:35.474 --> 01:21:37.604
But there is that is rational behind it, too.

01:21:37.724 --> 01:21:37.993
Yeah.

01:21:38.094 --> 01:21:40.253
So you but your brain is still like, you're good.

01:21:40.264 --> 01:21:43.373
You know, you can think you can slow down, you can be creative, all these things.

01:21:43.793 --> 01:21:47.894
But it is still a sympathetic aspect is still mobilized.

01:21:48.533 --> 01:21:51.024
But that's a that's a flavor of fight or flight.

01:21:51.253 --> 01:21:51.654
Right?

01:21:51.703 --> 01:21:55.819
So So that's starting to narrow your focus, your available options kind of down, right?

01:21:55.819 --> 01:22:08.828
So the more, the more urgent something becomes or the more at threat we become, then we get into fight or flight and, um, that's, you know, aggression or, um, retracting.

01:22:08.828 --> 01:22:13.038
We call it like our, in our work, we always are like our clients retreating.

01:22:13.413 --> 01:22:14.283
Or are they rebelling?

01:22:14.743 --> 01:22:16.514
And so those are fight or flight responses.

01:22:16.594 --> 01:22:19.993
Like is somebody like kicking up dirt for no reason?

01:22:19.993 --> 01:22:21.014
Are they complaining?

01:22:21.014 --> 01:22:22.984
Are they just being a total turd?

01:22:23.333 --> 01:22:27.904
You know, or have we haven't we not heard from them in three months?

01:22:28.154 --> 01:22:30.804
So retreating and rebelling are both mobilized.

01:22:31.293 --> 01:22:34.634
you know, kind of characteristics or behaviors.

01:22:35.073 --> 01:22:41.384
And then when we get really dysregulated, when we get into life threat, it's called, it's immobilization.

01:22:41.583 --> 01:22:43.974
And so we become disassociated.

01:22:44.064 --> 01:22:45.993
We turn away, we don't connect.

01:22:45.993 --> 01:22:47.144
It's disconnection.

01:22:47.144 --> 01:22:51.713
It's like, literally we, we can't, we don't want to be with other people.

01:22:51.713 --> 01:22:57.434
We can't be, it can be depression can be a response to that.

01:22:57.618 --> 01:23:03.099
Um, apathy, disassociation, like now we're kind of getting into like, Oh, very interesting mental health.

01:23:03.269 --> 01:23:03.748
Right.

01:23:03.779 --> 01:23:04.668
You know, behaviors.

01:23:04.668 --> 01:23:05.588
Chemical dependency.

01:23:05.588 --> 01:23:06.219
I imagine.

01:23:06.923 --> 01:23:11.203
Yeah, that can be, you know, um, you know, self medicating.

01:23:11.533 --> 01:23:12.163
Sometimes that's just the chemicals.

01:23:12.354 --> 01:23:12.684
Yeah.

01:23:13.014 --> 01:23:17.317
Well, self medicating is like, I think a thing we do to soothe, soothe the nervous system.

01:23:17.317 --> 01:23:17.987
That's what I'm saying.

01:23:17.987 --> 01:23:18.823
It's like a disassociating thing.

01:23:18.823 --> 01:23:19.173
Yeah.

01:23:19.173 --> 01:23:19.453
Yeah.

01:23:19.453 --> 01:23:20.333
You got something.

01:23:20.743 --> 01:23:21.203
Right.

01:23:21.503 --> 01:23:25.873
And, and I, you know, that can, that can happen when we're in the mobilized state.

01:23:25.984 --> 01:23:26.474
Right, right.

01:23:26.484 --> 01:23:29.913
You know, or it can happen when we're in that disconnection state.

01:23:29.923 --> 01:23:32.333
So it can happen at any range.

01:23:32.583 --> 01:23:33.333
It doesn't necessarily.

01:23:33.493 --> 01:23:34.373
Just kind of depends.

01:23:34.373 --> 01:23:43.474
So I would just invite people to get curious of like, when they become agitated, stressed, overwhelmed, you know, when you start not feeling great.

01:23:43.748 --> 01:23:49.918
You know, you start becoming bitchy or whatever you do, you know, like my, my word always is like, I'm so annoyed.

01:23:50.038 --> 01:23:52.048
Like I'm so annoyed at this thing or irritated.

01:23:52.048 --> 01:23:54.048
It's like, Oh, I roll.

01:23:54.048 --> 01:23:54.679
How am I?

01:23:54.998 --> 01:23:56.328
I'm just, I'm just curious.

01:23:56.338 --> 01:23:57.569
Like, how am I behaving?

01:23:57.838 --> 01:23:59.708
I am also a mobilizer.

01:23:59.719 --> 01:24:01.759
Like I, I fucking go into high gear.

01:24:01.759 --> 01:24:02.759
I go into action.

01:24:02.769 --> 01:24:03.069
Yeah.

01:24:03.118 --> 01:24:04.529
I don't run away from things.

01:24:04.828 --> 01:24:06.948
I know this about myself only because I have.

01:24:07.378 --> 01:24:14.399
attended, you know, so I would just invite people to get curious about like, when they're in tough situations, what are they?

01:24:14.509 --> 01:24:15.479
What are they thinking?

01:24:16.038 --> 01:24:16.849
What are they feeling?

01:24:17.319 --> 01:24:18.788
And what's happening in their body.

01:24:18.788 --> 01:24:24.698
So we always, the way the work unfolds for us is you wanna start to attend on the level of the body.

01:24:24.908 --> 01:24:26.168
Like do you sweat?

01:24:26.548 --> 01:24:28.048
Do you, does your heart race?

01:24:28.048 --> 01:24:31.168
Do you get like, you know, all tied up in your gut?

01:24:31.229 --> 01:24:31.319
Yeah.

01:24:31.319 --> 01:24:33.389
Do you like whatever?

01:24:33.389 --> 01:24:34.798
Do you, does your eye twitch?

01:24:34.979 --> 01:24:35.158
Right?

01:24:35.158 --> 01:24:36.958
Like what happens physiologically?

01:24:36.958 --> 01:24:37.048
Yeah.

01:24:37.463 --> 01:24:41.163
I think Jill was talking in her podcast about how she has a lot of test anxiety.

01:24:41.194 --> 01:24:41.654
Yeah.

01:24:41.974 --> 01:24:42.203
Yeah.

01:24:42.203 --> 01:24:43.645
That's a nervous system response.

01:24:43.645 --> 01:24:45.663
Whereas mine has always been pretty chill.

01:24:45.663 --> 01:24:45.953
Yeah.

01:24:45.953 --> 01:24:47.105
You know, in comparison.

01:24:47.105 --> 01:24:47.394
Yeah.

01:24:47.394 --> 01:24:50.844
I love tests because they showed me how smart I was compared to all the other I love tests.

01:24:50.844 --> 01:24:55.904
Well, I was only five kids in my class growing up, so, but it was like a validation thing for me.

01:24:56.764 --> 01:24:58.054
Very different experience.

01:24:58.073 --> 01:25:04.444
Whereas she might have been like, I should have, I'm the smartest, I'm very smart, but I missed these two dumb questions that I just got nervous about.

01:25:04.503 --> 01:25:04.833
Right.

01:25:04.833 --> 01:25:07.073
And it just creates that anxiety loop.

01:25:07.184 --> 01:25:12.253
What's so interesting about that, right, is like, that's the way you made meaning out of it.

01:25:12.634 --> 01:25:15.463
And that's versus the way she made meaning out of it.

01:25:16.873 --> 01:25:23.213
The stimuli is the test, and your body does the thing, which makes you probably better at test taking.

01:25:23.724 --> 01:25:25.573
And so it's like this, like, self fulfilling process.

01:25:25.583 --> 01:25:30.304
Yeah, but I'm shit at execution, like, I'd way rather hire Jill than me for any job just about.

01:25:30.743 --> 01:25:31.134
Yeah.

01:25:32.094 --> 01:25:32.463
Yeah.

01:25:32.463 --> 01:25:32.953
Not an exaggeration, but.

01:25:32.984 --> 01:25:33.833
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:25:34.314 --> 01:25:34.753
So, yeah.

01:25:34.814 --> 01:25:36.253
So, curiosity's a big thing.

01:25:36.444 --> 01:25:37.394
You just start to notice.

01:25:37.394 --> 01:25:37.863
Examination.

01:25:37.863 --> 01:25:41.998
You know, a lot of times we invite people if they're, if they're, on board enough.

01:25:42.078 --> 01:25:47.849
You know, the way we deliver this work really depends on the domain and it depends on how much buy in there is.

01:25:47.878 --> 01:25:56.038
Yeah, because sometimes it's just enough to know if you are an integrator or you're implementing or you're actually the support for the leader.

01:25:56.469 --> 01:26:04.819
It's just enough to know because it informs your strategy and your style, like how you coach and how you, you know, are going to guide a person.

01:26:05.029 --> 01:26:14.168
They don't always need to know, because if you're a good enough educator, teacher, facilitator, you can work some magic on them without them knowing it.

01:26:14.168 --> 01:26:19.958
They don't need to know it's corrective behavior, uh, engagement, it's actually just, hey, here's a nice tip.

01:26:20.009 --> 01:26:20.418
Yeah.

01:26:20.639 --> 01:26:33.323
Or you just change the way you, you do, and then they, so that's the other cool thing about the nervous system is that unconsciously, immediately I change you and you change me.

01:26:33.844 --> 01:26:40.783
Because it's, I'm responding to the way you look, the way you behave, the way you look at me or don't look at me.

01:26:41.144 --> 01:26:43.462
Like, so subtle and under the surface.

01:26:43.462 --> 01:26:46.394
So like if I did something like this, I forget how to do that.

01:26:46.394 --> 01:26:48.974
Anyway.

01:26:48.974 --> 01:26:55.048
Yeah, I mean, if you were shouting at me when I walked in the door, I'd probably, Have a very different response.

01:26:55.328 --> 01:26:56.158
Right, right.

01:26:56.519 --> 01:26:57.658
So, um.

01:26:57.779 --> 01:26:58.139
Okay.

01:26:58.219 --> 01:26:59.389
Yeah, noticing.

01:26:59.798 --> 01:27:02.889
Well, I was gonna say, you know, we sometimes have people, like, write it down.

01:27:03.168 --> 01:27:05.389
You know, like, when they have a triggering moment, you know.

01:27:05.569 --> 01:27:08.509
It could be like, I spill my coffee, and I freak the fuck out.

01:27:08.719 --> 01:27:08.958
Right.

01:27:09.009 --> 01:27:09.884
And, and like.

01:27:10.104 --> 01:27:22.113
I did this thing, and then I thought this thing, and I felt this thing, and then I was a total shit to my, you know, kid or my spouse, and just kind of bringing the dirt up to the surface can be so revealing.

01:27:22.873 --> 01:27:25.234
So that would be my biggest, like, do that.

01:27:25.993 --> 01:27:33.774
And then the other, like, simplest thing is just, And when you notice you're, you know, there's lots of language we can use around it.

01:27:33.783 --> 01:27:35.533
Like you're activated or you're stressed out.

01:27:35.533 --> 01:27:37.974
It's like just, yeah, triggered.

01:27:38.264 --> 01:27:38.564
Yeah.

01:27:38.573 --> 01:27:39.503
Probably a little bit too big a word.

01:27:39.514 --> 01:27:43.453
Well it's an interesting word because I think it has like a negative connotation.

01:27:44.024 --> 01:27:47.484
We also teach this flip side of like, how do you optimize stress?

01:27:47.729 --> 01:27:56.359
The regulated experience, like how do you because the goal is not just to come back to neutral, like I'm so steady, regulated and unfazed.

01:27:56.368 --> 01:27:58.578
It's like, how do you dance between the two?

01:27:58.588 --> 01:28:02.849
How do you transition between handling stress and returning to steadiness?

01:28:02.868 --> 01:28:05.849
And we want to minimize the cost of that.

01:28:06.389 --> 01:28:09.088
And we want the transition to be smooth.

01:28:09.604 --> 01:28:13.384
Because the world is complex and it's not getting less complex.

01:28:13.793 --> 01:28:17.743
So, you know, it's like, we want to be able to dance between the two.

01:28:18.224 --> 01:28:25.434
Sorry, I kind of cut you off, but so, so it was when you noticed that you're getting this anxious thing or this triggered thing, then you do, yeah.

01:28:25.533 --> 01:28:26.463
Three deep breaths.

01:28:26.833 --> 01:28:28.234
Oh, I mean, that's it.

01:28:28.274 --> 01:28:28.413
Yeah.

01:28:28.413 --> 01:28:28.634
Yeah.

01:28:29.203 --> 01:28:32.823
We call it, so our strategy is like, you have to stop and listen.

01:28:33.363 --> 01:28:33.463
Right.

01:28:33.564 --> 01:28:34.904
So when you notice.

01:28:35.274 --> 01:28:44.724
You're starting to spin out, you know, whatever language you use, whatever, it's stressed, overwhelmed, triggered, whatever, you, you stop and you go, what's happening?

01:28:45.753 --> 01:28:52.833
And we kind of support people and coming up with a question that feels relevant to them, you know, whether it's how am I feeling?

01:28:52.844 --> 01:28:53.713
How am I doing?

01:28:53.724 --> 01:28:54.793
What the fuck is happening?

01:28:54.804 --> 01:28:55.533
Like, whatever.

01:28:55.554 --> 01:28:56.554
It's just going to be there.

01:28:56.644 --> 01:28:57.083
Jam.

01:28:57.203 --> 01:28:57.253
Yeah.

01:28:57.253 --> 01:28:57.583
Yeah.

01:28:57.673 --> 01:29:07.474
And then you're like, oh, yeah, I'm really I'm about to do a thing or I'm really not feeling like I'm, I'm in a good space to have this conversation or whatever.

01:29:07.474 --> 01:29:08.344
And then three deep breaths.

01:29:08.344 --> 01:29:09.743
But after three deep breaths, then I will be.

01:29:10.844 --> 01:29:21.594
And it's really interesting because when you stop and you ask a question of yourself, you're automatically triggering your parasympathetic nervous system.

01:29:21.713 --> 01:29:27.474
You're like literally creating enough space to calm yourself down just a tiniest bit.

01:29:27.904 --> 01:29:29.904
And that starts to create the space.

01:29:30.344 --> 01:29:31.564
For doing something different.

01:29:31.583 --> 01:29:31.963
Yeah.

01:29:32.274 --> 01:29:35.384
That's the, that's the crack and you only need a crack.

01:29:35.434 --> 01:29:35.764
Right.

01:29:35.944 --> 01:29:38.434
Like a tiny crack, a bunch of times a day.

01:29:38.654 --> 01:29:38.984
Yeah.

01:29:39.033 --> 01:29:41.604
And at the end of the day, you feel better.

01:29:41.673 --> 01:29:42.113
Totally.

01:29:42.194 --> 01:29:47.043
I mean, It's, it is so simple and it is also not that easy.

01:29:47.054 --> 01:29:52.844
Well, like yoga has been described at least, uh, to me as like a, almost like a preparation for meditation.

01:29:53.463 --> 01:29:56.583
Well, I mean, yeah, historically that's, that's what it is.

01:29:56.623 --> 01:29:56.923
Right.

01:29:56.934 --> 01:30:03.394
So definitionally, and people use it as exercise or whatever, but it's really more of a get your body kind of square and that same kind of thing.

01:30:03.404 --> 01:30:05.503
Like the preparation for meditation.

01:30:06.104 --> 01:30:10.703
Responding rationally is being curious and taking a little pause.

01:30:10.743 --> 01:30:10.963
Yeah.

01:30:10.963 --> 01:30:11.663
Take a pause.

01:30:11.703 --> 01:30:11.993
Yeah.

01:30:11.993 --> 01:30:16.663
And a lot of our, a lot of our clients, they like that word pause.

01:30:16.663 --> 01:30:17.854
Like you just pause.

01:30:18.413 --> 01:30:27.844
And then how so much magic can happen in the pause because you don't have to just keep tripping over your own shitty behavior all the time.

01:30:28.373 --> 01:30:29.354
I mean, you can change it.

01:30:29.729 --> 01:30:34.338
Like, you can change that stained glass, you know, neuroplasticity, like, you can change it.

01:30:34.378 --> 01:30:35.588
It's so groovy.

01:30:35.658 --> 01:30:35.838
Yeah.

01:30:35.838 --> 01:30:36.099
Yeah.

01:30:36.158 --> 01:30:37.809
I mean, and it's so powerful.

01:30:37.939 --> 01:30:42.809
Did I talk to Max about HALOS, relational intelligence, on my podcast with him?

01:30:43.559 --> 01:30:55.854
I don't think we have time to unfold it now, but, um, it's kind of a disk like, uh, Uh, if you've studied disc or Enneagram or some of those things, this is a Brazilian platform and it's built on a, like a yin and a yang.

01:30:55.873 --> 01:31:02.804
I've got my two essentials for me are the thinker, uh, which is like lots of ideas, philosopher type.

01:31:03.069 --> 01:31:07.918
Uh, full inbox, uh, so there's positives and negatives.

01:31:07.918 --> 01:31:10.708
And then the social relational is my secondary type.

01:31:10.719 --> 01:31:12.229
That's kind of the people first always.

01:31:12.988 --> 01:31:17.859
Um, and each of those colors and types has positive and negative polarities.

01:31:17.878 --> 01:31:25.649
So you were talking about kind of avoiding the negative, but also spending a lot of time in the positive of your responsibility.

01:31:25.698 --> 01:31:26.238
Yeah.

01:31:26.578 --> 01:31:32.279
And it's like, I tell people like, I don't believe you'll ever truly get rid of your triggers.

01:31:32.279 --> 01:31:32.309
Right.

01:31:32.729 --> 01:31:34.849
You just form a different relationship with them.

01:31:35.458 --> 01:31:46.168
So like, I might always just have to work through this thing of like, it's somewhere in my body is stored the trauma of being hit and, and there's fear in that.

01:31:46.298 --> 01:31:57.868
And so like, I, I have to really like, It's not like I work hard to manage that, but there is a hypervigilance and shift that's kind of what's necessary.

01:31:58.219 --> 01:32:05.859
Like I, we, I don't usually two up with Max, but I, but I do really like to, and he's just a fucking phenomenal writer.

01:32:05.859 --> 01:32:07.198
So, you know, yeah.

01:32:07.413 --> 01:32:19.064
I trust him, and we two upped on Saturday up to Glenhaven, and I was like just so aware that there was a little, little piece in me that was hypervigilant.

01:32:19.354 --> 01:32:21.703
It's better if I don't look, and I just trust him.

01:32:21.774 --> 01:32:22.894
You're not trying to watch for deer, or whatever.

01:32:22.904 --> 01:32:24.628
Yeah, I just, I'm like, I gotta just trust him.

01:32:24.628 --> 01:32:28.279
I just, I just got to like take some deep breaths and let him do it.

01:32:28.319 --> 01:32:30.009
That never was the case before.

01:32:30.509 --> 01:32:36.259
And my friend Gina and I just motorcycled because I bought a GS from our buddy Jack here.

01:32:36.529 --> 01:32:37.819
I got it, had to get it home.

01:32:38.118 --> 01:32:42.569
So she had ridden from Louisiana to Colorado a couple weeks ago.

01:32:42.969 --> 01:32:44.399
She's like my moto buddy.

01:32:44.399 --> 01:32:48.479
We've crushed, you know, tens of thousands of miles together.

01:32:48.753 --> 01:32:52.953
So we rode from Colorado to Sacramento, um, in three days.

01:32:52.984 --> 01:32:55.314
And I mean, I love it.

01:32:55.524 --> 01:32:56.173
Obviously.

01:32:56.173 --> 01:32:56.694
I love it.

01:32:56.743 --> 01:32:56.993
And.

01:32:57.984 --> 01:33:03.743
Man, I have to, there's just moments where I have to really manage myself because I can feel that hypervigilance.

01:33:04.064 --> 01:33:07.503
It's almost like my brain, it triggers my brain.

01:33:07.503 --> 01:33:15.154
Like when you're in, we were going through Utah, I think it was Utah, and you know, just get these valleys where there's so much crosswind.

01:33:15.373 --> 01:33:15.703
Yeah.

01:33:16.503 --> 01:33:26.814
We had hit a nasty spot, you know, my whole body is tense and I'm just leaning and I was like, like literally deep breathing and making I'm like, it's fine.

01:33:26.814 --> 01:33:28.154
I'm not gonna fucking crash.

01:33:28.673 --> 01:33:29.703
It's gonna be fine.

01:33:30.934 --> 01:33:32.644
You know, it's not.

01:33:32.833 --> 01:33:34.453
I don't know if that will ever go away.

01:33:34.503 --> 01:33:35.113
Yeah, I don't know.

01:33:35.173 --> 01:33:46.118
But I'm, I'm But because I'm aware of it, I can manage it and I can still, I can like find steadiness and I can still find enjoyment rather than like letting it overtake the experience.

01:33:46.628 --> 01:33:54.639
And oftentimes when we're hyper, hyper vigilant and responding inaccurately to stimulus, it's a real bad situation.

01:33:54.639 --> 01:34:05.934
So many people quit riding motorcycles, for example, because They had a friend or something and they just can't quite get out of that kind of risk of trauma Yeah, I I broke my leg in a motorcycle crash.

01:34:06.003 --> 01:34:11.963
Yeah, like a week before I graduated high school I remember hearing about yeah, and in you know, our trip a few weeks ago.

01:34:11.963 --> 01:34:19.043
I missed a deer by that much Um, and And I don't think about it still.

01:34:19.094 --> 01:34:21.783
Like, I, I don't think any way.

01:34:21.783 --> 01:34:25.944
I don't feel like I have an anxious response to those.

01:34:26.293 --> 01:34:28.533
It'd be something to just be curious about.

01:34:28.753 --> 01:34:29.963
And I'm kind of sideways.

01:34:29.963 --> 01:34:30.413
I've, I've.

01:34:30.429 --> 01:34:37.014
Um, no, I didn't actually go down, but I've taken the motorcycle all the way sideways to up.

01:34:37.014 --> 01:34:37.809
Oh, geez.

01:34:37.809 --> 01:34:40.038
Oh my gosh.

01:34:40.038 --> 01:34:40.738
Oh yeah.

01:34:41.469 --> 01:34:41.969
Oh God.

01:34:42.189 --> 01:34:42.439
Yeah.

01:34:42.439 --> 01:34:43.019
That's no fun.

01:34:43.139 --> 01:34:43.559
Yeah.

01:34:43.559 --> 01:34:44.429
But I didn't crash.

01:34:44.649 --> 01:34:47.838
You know, uh, except for that very first time.

01:34:48.059 --> 01:34:48.408
Yeah.

01:34:49.279 --> 01:34:49.529
Yeah.

01:34:49.538 --> 01:34:57.208
What's another piece that's interesting to me is like the way we either do or don't have Yeah.

01:34:57.514 --> 01:35:01.274
Uh, these defensive responses to different domains in our life.

01:35:01.413 --> 01:35:01.724
Right.

01:35:01.764 --> 01:35:03.654
And I'm sure like I'm a defensive person.

01:35:03.654 --> 01:35:07.713
Sometimes there's things in my life that create that, that's just, that's one of my trigger responses.

01:35:07.863 --> 01:35:07.993
Right.

01:35:07.993 --> 01:35:09.094
Somebody criticizing me.

01:35:09.184 --> 01:35:09.434
Yeah.

01:35:09.434 --> 01:35:11.134
But maybe it's not on the motorcycle.

01:35:11.304 --> 01:35:15.073
Maybe you're just like, maybe your nervous system is way more regulated and healthy.

01:35:15.644 --> 01:35:18.203
in relationship to motorcycling than it is to.

01:35:18.404 --> 01:35:18.863
Kind of.

01:35:18.993 --> 01:35:19.373
Yeah.

01:35:19.434 --> 01:35:20.344
That's one of the reasons I love it.

01:35:20.573 --> 01:35:21.604
I can just think about motorcycles.

01:35:21.634 --> 01:35:22.314
Yeah.

01:35:22.314 --> 01:35:22.484
Yeah.

01:35:22.484 --> 01:35:26.814
Well, so that's like, go way back to like the diagnostics that we've created.

01:35:26.923 --> 01:35:34.264
And I said, remember I said, we've created this assessment for people to understand how they respond to different areas of their business.

01:35:34.724 --> 01:35:36.894
And so this is where it's so fascinating.

01:35:36.894 --> 01:35:38.144
You know, somebody might be.

01:35:38.719 --> 01:35:51.838
Um, really like pretty consistently steady and able to be flexible and responsive in relationship to, um, you know, client delivery, but when it comes to finances, this is not uncommon, right?

01:35:52.708 --> 01:36:00.828
Particularly from the realm I'm coming from, people fucking freak out, they, they become, they can't look, they don't respond to emails.

01:36:01.029 --> 01:36:03.899
It's like, Oh yeah, that's, it's okay.

01:36:04.158 --> 01:36:04.349
Yeah.

01:36:04.389 --> 01:36:06.698
You know, like let's depersonalize it.

01:36:06.748 --> 01:36:17.378
Like let's not let it be a thing that we feel shame and guilt about, but like, notice that you just, you have a physiological response to this particular domain or situation.

01:36:18.128 --> 01:36:20.038
Like don't blame yourself, right?

01:36:20.038 --> 01:36:20.359
Because.

01:36:22.304 --> 01:36:30.524
It's just, it's just what's happening in your body, and if we can kind of pull it up to the surface, we can handle it differently.

01:36:31.253 --> 01:36:35.413
Seems like so much of this, and we're going to have to break here, because you've got a party to go to here.

01:36:35.913 --> 01:36:36.253
Yeah.

01:36:36.373 --> 01:36:36.884
Oh my God.

01:36:36.884 --> 01:36:38.953
And we've got some standard sections and stuff.

01:36:39.434 --> 01:36:46.663
But what I was going to say is, it seems like a lot of this would be so transferable to like, Uh, marriage counseling or just personal counseling and stuff like that.

01:36:46.663 --> 01:37:06.583
Like all the responses that I don't know where that came from, whether it's a defensive response or you know, frankly, I, I flashed to like women who've been assaulted in some capacity and so for them to like overcome that lack of that weird trust thing when this is a little bit like that other thing that wasn't good.

01:37:06.594 --> 01:37:06.953
Yeah.

01:37:07.634 --> 01:37:09.234
Well, we all, I always say to people.

01:37:09.243 --> 01:37:09.264
Yeah.

01:37:09.264 --> 01:37:09.309
Yeah.

01:37:09.698 --> 01:37:13.128
I would say, you know, there are just some things you can't think your way through.

01:37:13.679 --> 01:37:15.128
You got to feel your way through them.

01:37:15.168 --> 01:37:18.458
And I believe that with all everything that I am.

01:37:18.509 --> 01:37:21.009
And it's not just anecdotal, it's not experiential.

01:37:21.009 --> 01:37:27.998
It's like it's their science, you know, it's like if you just keep thinking about the thing, you're just reliving the trauma.

01:37:28.009 --> 01:37:30.798
Like you can do, you can have, there's great therapists out there.

01:37:30.798 --> 01:37:31.588
Don't get me wrong.

01:37:31.639 --> 01:37:33.929
But there is a place for this.

01:37:34.274 --> 01:37:35.703
body based work.

01:37:36.453 --> 01:37:43.283
You know, there's just a different intelligence and wisdom in us that we don't rely on that could change every domain.

01:37:43.594 --> 01:37:49.594
I mean, we actually have a program called NSIF, which is Nervous System Integration Facilitator.

01:37:50.213 --> 01:37:52.503
It's a certification program, a licensing program.

01:37:52.833 --> 01:37:59.363
So we train people to come in and learn How to facilitate this work in whatever capacity they're in.

01:37:59.373 --> 01:38:08.884
So we have executive coaches, we have health and wellness coaches, we have somatic people, and they're using the work and they're integrating it into what they do.

01:38:09.354 --> 01:38:21.479
And it's, You know, we've had people who are applying it to like end of life, you know, hospice to, um, you know, in California, particularly sports teams, anything, well, right.

01:38:21.488 --> 01:38:23.219
Sports teams, particularly.

01:38:23.319 --> 01:38:34.019
Um, I did a training recently through the Polyvagal Institute, uh, with a guy who's a professional tennis coach, you know, so people are bringing it to bear on so many domains.

01:38:34.088 --> 01:38:34.269
Right.

01:38:35.173 --> 01:38:35.873
It's powerful.

01:38:36.134 --> 01:38:39.003
I think it's kind of leading edge of high performance coaching, right?

01:38:39.003 --> 01:38:40.413
And just being a high performance human.

01:38:41.484 --> 01:38:41.844
100%.

01:38:42.003 --> 01:38:42.323
Alright.

01:38:42.394 --> 01:38:45.043
Well, I'm going to call it potty break and a wine refill.

01:38:45.094 --> 01:38:45.463
Oh, that sounds good.

01:38:45.564 --> 01:38:46.453
And we'll wrap this thing up.

01:38:46.514 --> 01:38:46.894
Okay.

01:39:30.198 --> 01:39:31.748
Me, me, me, me, me.

01:39:31.859 --> 01:39:32.639
And we're back.

01:39:34.559 --> 01:39:36.248
We are back.

01:39:36.899 --> 01:39:37.788
You sing a whole song?

01:39:37.859 --> 01:39:39.779
Enthusiastic for the last half of this.

01:39:40.076 --> 01:39:40.326
Kind of.

01:39:40.326 --> 01:39:43.365
It's not what you say.

01:39:43.395 --> 01:39:44.386
It's not what you say, Kurt.

01:39:44.386 --> 01:39:44.985
It's how you say it.

01:39:45.036 --> 01:39:51.645
I have a, uh, I have a Tarzan yell that is among the best you've ever heard, but I don't know if I can do it in here.

01:39:51.655 --> 01:39:52.786
We might have to wait until we're outside.

01:39:52.975 --> 01:39:53.376
Yeah, maybe.

01:39:53.466 --> 01:39:54.916
Yeah, we'll do that when we leave.

01:39:55.515 --> 01:40:01.716
Um, so, uh, mandatory topics, uh, for any open minded thinker, curious person.

01:40:01.926 --> 01:40:02.315
Okay.

01:40:02.426 --> 01:40:04.815
Uh, faith, family, and politics.

01:40:05.176 --> 01:40:05.735
Yeah.

01:40:05.855 --> 01:40:08.765
Uh, where would you prefer to start in those three?

01:40:09.015 --> 01:40:13.626
Well, I got a lot to say about family and a little bit to say about the other two, so you choose.

01:40:13.626 --> 01:40:14.086
Fair enough.

01:40:14.435 --> 01:40:15.395
Well, let's start with family.

01:40:15.615 --> 01:40:15.926
Okay.

01:40:15.985 --> 01:40:26.256
Um, a lot of our guests, we jump in the time machine and go back to first grade or something, find out how, uh, little Chantel was, uh, behaved and stuff.

01:40:26.265 --> 01:40:29.865
But let's just do kind of a, a flash forward on your parents.

01:40:30.041 --> 01:40:35.171
Your parents, siblings, things like that, if there is anything, your upbringing, just a touch in the Central Valley.

01:40:35.220 --> 01:40:39.001
Yeah, yeah, uh, well, I have, I just have a great family.

01:40:39.280 --> 01:40:41.110
I love my mom and dad so much.

01:40:41.211 --> 01:40:48.775
Um, you know, they, they were They did the best they could, you know, what were they doing?

01:40:49.355 --> 01:40:56.235
Well, you know, they, yeah, my dad, my dad is just a lovely human and also just really struggled.

01:40:56.235 --> 01:41:01.275
And so I feel I always tell my sisters like the version of our folks that I got.

01:41:01.770 --> 01:41:02.740
I got the best.

01:41:03.121 --> 01:41:05.190
Well, you know, I got through a rose colored glasses.

01:41:05.270 --> 01:41:08.740
Yeah, just they were, they were happy and healthy and doing cool shit.

01:41:08.751 --> 01:41:10.551
And, you know, it was great.

01:41:10.551 --> 01:41:15.841
And then, and then it just was like, they weren't really a good fit, you know, and they, and they struggled.

01:41:15.841 --> 01:41:20.780
And, um, I have two sisters, two younger sisters, I'm the eldest of three.

01:41:20.810 --> 01:41:33.640
And, um, I think by the time I was in third grade, I think I remember, I can remember my mom and dad sitting me down and saying like, we're, we're gonna.

01:41:34.081 --> 01:41:35.480
We're separating, we're divorcing.

01:41:36.091 --> 01:41:39.551
Um, they didn't actually get divorced officially until I was 16.

01:41:41.451 --> 01:41:43.320
So that was a fucking roller coaster.

01:41:44.940 --> 01:41:47.581
Uh, you know, How old were your sisters comparably?

01:41:48.331 --> 01:41:52.251
So my sister, my middle sister, Anna is about two years younger.

01:41:52.310 --> 01:41:52.530
Okay.

01:41:52.560 --> 01:41:56.770
And then my youngest sister, Amber is seven years younger than me.

01:41:56.770 --> 01:42:01.945
Um, And yeah, it was just, you know, it was a rocky ride.

01:42:02.065 --> 01:42:05.206
My dad, I think, you know, freaked out.

01:42:05.216 --> 01:42:06.945
Talk about nervous system dysregulation.

01:42:06.956 --> 01:42:12.365
He was angry and, um, didn't, he was always loving and kind to us.

01:42:12.365 --> 01:42:13.655
There was nothing like that.

01:42:13.655 --> 01:42:17.541
But he, he just made some bad choices and wasn't around a lot.

01:42:17.831 --> 01:42:18.570
all the time.

01:42:18.570 --> 01:42:23.320
And, but, you know, for me again, like when he was around, I have very fond memories.

01:42:23.320 --> 01:42:25.280
You know, he was always at sports events.

01:42:25.280 --> 01:42:26.680
He coached my soccer team.

01:42:26.680 --> 01:42:28.070
He was there.

01:42:28.110 --> 01:42:31.121
My, I tell this story about, uh, I ran track.

01:42:31.350 --> 01:42:33.110
I didn't, I don't know why I did that.

01:42:33.140 --> 01:42:33.451
Didn't.

01:42:33.661 --> 01:42:36.426
Liked running Um, you were your distance.

01:42:36.426 --> 01:42:36.930
I went to high.

01:42:37.140 --> 01:42:37.921
I went to high Jump.

01:42:38.041 --> 01:42:38.341
Okay.

01:42:38.400 --> 01:42:41.581
And so, but my coach was like, you can't be on the track team without running.

01:42:41.581 --> 01:42:47.490
So she forced me to run the one thing that nobody wanted to run, which was the 400 meter meter hurdles.

01:42:47.610 --> 01:42:47.761
Mm-Hmm.

01:42:48.270 --> 01:42:53.100
And, uh, you know, my dad and my uncle, his, his older brother, they were there.

01:42:53.251 --> 01:42:56.730
It was a, a home meet and I was doing pretty good.

01:42:57.235 --> 01:43:02.975
That's doing pretty good for somebody who's, no, I don't have speed, you know, I have agility, coordination, but I don't have speed.

01:43:03.326 --> 01:43:15.525
So I think maybe I was coming in second or something and I hit the last hurdle and I fell straight on my ass at, uh, like in front of my dad and in front of my uncle and I yelled fuck so loud.

01:43:15.536 --> 01:43:15.886
Oh shit.

01:43:17.381 --> 01:43:28.690
And I was not only mortified that I had fallen, but I was also so deeply humiliated that I had said a cuss word because my dad was like, no cussing.

01:43:28.761 --> 01:43:29.291
Interesting.

01:43:29.371 --> 01:43:29.621
Yeah.

01:43:29.621 --> 01:43:31.711
So, you know, I love my dad.

01:43:31.720 --> 01:43:32.520
He's great.

01:43:32.591 --> 01:43:33.591
He's supportive.

01:43:33.591 --> 01:43:34.820
He lives with me, actually.

01:43:34.820 --> 01:43:35.211
Oh, wow.

01:43:35.310 --> 01:43:38.240
Um, and he's just, he's a go getter.

01:43:38.240 --> 01:43:39.860
He was in construction and.

01:43:40.176 --> 01:43:40.426
Yeah.

01:43:40.586 --> 01:43:41.775
A foreman for many years.

01:43:41.775 --> 01:43:42.565
He's super handy.

01:43:42.565 --> 01:43:46.765
He's taught my son all kinds of things and, um, so I feel very lucky.

01:43:46.845 --> 01:43:47.095
Yeah.

01:43:47.195 --> 01:43:51.015
Uh, and my mom is just, she's a fucking kick ass woman.

01:43:51.376 --> 01:44:00.195
She basically raised us, you know, I was her parental partner for most of my young life because my dad wasn't totally involved in that way.

01:44:01.451 --> 01:44:05.951
You know, we had, I have all my friends, all of my like lifetime friends.

01:44:05.990 --> 01:44:08.430
There's a handful still, uh, that I'm close with.

01:44:08.810 --> 01:44:12.490
They remember her always like in her overalls working on the cars.

01:44:12.841 --> 01:44:16.320
You know, we had this old pickup truck and we had an old Volkswagen.

01:44:16.730 --> 01:44:21.100
Uh, she just was always, she just did whatever fucking was necessary.

01:44:21.140 --> 01:44:21.520
Yeah.

01:44:21.631 --> 01:44:23.270
She was like always under the hood.

01:44:23.270 --> 01:44:31.820
Well, for a lot of females, even in like the enlightened present, Working on cars isn't part of their job description period.

01:44:31.850 --> 01:44:33.301
She just did everything right.

01:44:33.381 --> 01:44:34.270
She did everything.

01:44:34.411 --> 01:44:35.581
She's fucking great.

01:44:35.951 --> 01:44:38.791
I always describe her too as like a big heart with legs.

01:44:39.341 --> 01:44:44.400
She's just the kindest, sweetest, most loving, gushing, beautiful human.

01:44:44.411 --> 01:45:03.171
And despite a lot of years of turmoil, what I am so grateful for and what I, what I, what informed the way I ended my marriage was, how my parents are now, not the way they did it.

01:45:03.180 --> 01:45:05.560
Cause I was like, I don't want to fucking do it the way they did it.

01:45:05.820 --> 01:45:07.860
Like they, they couldn't make a decision.

01:45:07.860 --> 01:45:14.456
I think they were so torn about it, but, um, The way they are now is so sweet and just delightful.

01:45:14.456 --> 01:45:20.926
And my mom comes down, she lives up in the mountains in California, kind of on the West coast and she'll logger or something like that.

01:45:21.246 --> 01:45:22.666
They live up on a fucking mountain.

01:45:23.706 --> 01:45:26.376
She, she's like basically a homesteader in a lot of ways.

01:45:26.435 --> 01:45:30.706
You know, she's, she's retired, but has a garden and they live out in the middle of fucking nowhere.

01:45:30.706 --> 01:45:43.360
I never go there cause I'm lazy hassle, but I, I, she comes down and, I just recently, uh, last week they were there and, um, they're just so sweet together.

01:45:43.360 --> 01:45:45.400
They go out and they garden in my garden.

01:45:45.451 --> 01:45:46.650
I'm a huge gardener.

01:45:46.650 --> 01:45:49.841
I have like 90 house plants and we have a beautiful backyard.

01:45:50.831 --> 01:45:52.610
They just, they're just so sweet.

01:45:52.871 --> 01:45:54.171
I just love them so much.

01:45:54.201 --> 01:45:56.690
And they're so supportive and seeing them together is like.

01:45:59.400 --> 01:46:05.341
And then, you know, they're so involved with the kids, so my son is 18, Charlie, just graduated high school.

01:46:05.341 --> 01:46:06.201
He's the older, I guess.

01:46:06.251 --> 01:46:08.400
He's the older, and my daughter is 10.

01:46:08.530 --> 01:46:08.801
Okay.

01:46:08.940 --> 01:46:11.110
And, um, they're so different.

01:46:11.301 --> 01:46:17.810
You know, I'm, I'm in an interesting phase of like, uh, gosh, just like, really.

01:46:18.886 --> 01:46:22.586
Like, my heart breaks a little bit for the fact that my son is no longer a child.

01:46:22.586 --> 01:46:23.501
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:46:23.501 --> 01:46:24.515
He's becoming a man.

01:46:24.555 --> 01:46:26.185
He's just like, off.

01:46:26.206 --> 01:46:28.315
He was here a couple weeks ago.

01:46:28.315 --> 01:46:35.515
We brought him with his girlfriend and we went to see Max play in his Grateful Dead band, Peak to Peak, in Boulder.

01:46:36.121 --> 01:46:41.091
Um, some of my other best friends from Sacramento had come into town because they had never seen Max play.

01:46:41.131 --> 01:46:45.291
They've met him, you know, lots and lots of times, but they've never seen my life here.

01:46:45.850 --> 01:46:51.331
Um, and we were, we were, you know, partaking in lots of delightful things.

01:46:52.640 --> 01:47:01.440
Um, here come the kids out from the, in the green, they came out of the green room and into the, you know, music space and I was like, Oh my God, they are so fucking stoned.

01:47:03.161 --> 01:47:06.235
And the, it was just so interesting, you know, The kids.

01:47:06.735 --> 01:47:06.886
Both of them?

01:47:07.275 --> 01:47:07.536
Yeah.

01:47:07.536 --> 01:47:08.105
Oh, yeah.

01:47:08.336 --> 01:47:08.926
Your 10 year old?

01:47:08.935 --> 01:47:09.756
No, the 18 year old.

01:47:09.765 --> 01:47:10.435
Oh, and his girlfriend.

01:47:10.865 --> 01:47:11.225
Okay.

01:47:11.225 --> 01:47:13.666
I'm like, No, I left my 10 year old at home.

01:47:13.826 --> 01:47:16.685
I was like, no, this is an adults only kind of situation.

01:47:17.166 --> 01:47:29.525
Um, but you know, it's just like, so interesting and fabulous to see him emerging as a, as a human being, you know, and also like, Some yeah Coming here.

01:47:29.746 --> 01:47:32.586
We you probably heard we do one word descriptions.

01:47:32.655 --> 01:47:33.775
Oh, I did hear this.

01:47:33.826 --> 01:47:34.365
Oh my gosh.

01:47:34.796 --> 01:47:36.185
I thought I should Charlie.

01:47:37.315 --> 01:47:40.985
Oh Hmm delightful.

01:47:41.536 --> 01:47:42.055
That's sweet.

01:47:42.235 --> 01:47:43.836
He's just a delightful human.

01:47:43.975 --> 01:47:44.945
He really is.

01:47:44.985 --> 01:47:57.225
He's fucking wicked smart and also Struggles, you know, he just like, you know, you know, yeah, he'll find his way, you know, he'll find his way.

01:47:57.775 --> 01:48:02.055
Uh, my daughter is, she's a pistol, a pistol.

01:48:02.076 --> 01:48:02.735
She's a pistol.

01:48:02.735 --> 01:48:03.456
What's her name again?

01:48:03.475 --> 01:48:03.985
Sydney.

01:48:03.996 --> 01:48:04.405
Sydney.

01:48:04.515 --> 01:48:04.775
Yeah.

01:48:04.805 --> 01:48:05.735
Sydney with a C.

01:48:05.996 --> 01:48:07.576
She's, she's a firecracker.

01:48:08.046 --> 01:48:14.216
She's just, everybody teases me and says, Oh, she's just like, you know, she's sassy.

01:48:15.640 --> 01:48:18.581
She's like me as a, as a realized adult.

01:48:18.640 --> 01:48:20.541
You know, I was never like that when I was a kid.

01:48:20.541 --> 01:48:23.911
I was like, Well, she probably learned that from you though.

01:48:24.511 --> 01:48:24.881
Yeah.

01:48:24.881 --> 01:48:27.541
Like you were becoming that as she was just a baby.

01:48:27.610 --> 01:48:28.680
Yeah, I think so.

01:48:28.911 --> 01:48:39.195
Although I do joke with people like, Whereas Charlie took 26 hours to be born, he fucking would not come out.

01:48:40.345 --> 01:48:43.945
Sydney was like, she shot out like a fucking warrior.

01:48:44.286 --> 01:48:47.224
I mean, maybe that's too much information.

01:48:47.224 --> 01:48:48.255
I'm here.

01:48:48.255 --> 01:48:49.286
I'm ready.

01:48:49.286 --> 01:48:50.265
She pulled herself out.

01:48:51.895 --> 01:48:52.956
I got the head out of my little fingers.

01:48:54.166 --> 01:49:01.015
It's really pretty, um, phenomenal that they're very different, but they, they have this thing.

01:49:01.595 --> 01:49:10.445
Uh, they have this thing I think that we all have is they're just super big hearted, lovely, empathetic, beautiful little, little humans.

01:49:10.935 --> 01:49:16.275
Well, I'm imagining that mom has been talking about all the stuff she's been learning about for years and stuff like that.

01:49:16.275 --> 01:49:19.395
And that really helps to bring somebody along, you know, outside of your zone.

01:49:20.155 --> 01:49:23.525
I try to practice it too, you know, they don't give a fuck.

01:49:23.555 --> 01:49:25.225
I mean, Charlie is interested.

01:49:25.225 --> 01:49:27.485
He's always been interested in my, in my work.

01:49:27.926 --> 01:49:35.006
Um, But, you know, Sid's just like, she's much more of a, you know, yeah, she's just like making waves.

01:49:35.015 --> 01:49:35.445
Do it.

01:49:35.445 --> 01:49:35.756
Do it.

01:49:35.756 --> 01:49:36.786
Yeah.

01:49:36.786 --> 01:49:37.155
Yeah.

01:49:38.695 --> 01:49:39.006
Yeah.

01:49:39.006 --> 01:49:39.676
They're great.

01:49:39.836 --> 01:49:44.305
Um, and then of course there's Max and yeah, he's, he's, where did you guys meet?

01:49:44.756 --> 01:49:46.155
Well, we have a mutual friend.

01:49:46.216 --> 01:49:46.636
Oh yeah.

01:49:46.645 --> 01:49:47.115
He's mentioned that.

01:49:47.136 --> 01:49:47.595
Yeah.

01:49:47.595 --> 01:49:47.916
Yeah.

01:49:47.916 --> 01:49:56.541
So my dear friend, Gina, who I known since high school, her previous boyfriend, um, Um, That's how we know Max.

01:49:56.541 --> 01:49:58.310
So Max and Vinny play music together.

01:49:58.310 --> 01:50:02.140
And I heard him say this on the podcast, so it'll be a little bit redundant.

01:50:02.150 --> 01:50:08.150
But, um, you know, they, they both were like, Oh my God, Max, this and Max, that, and you guys are so similar.

01:50:08.150 --> 01:50:24.426
And I was just separating and getting divorced and he was, He was ending, uh, um, engagement and, uh, so we really kind of know, yeah, we've known each other, uh, of each other for probably nine or 10, 11 years.

01:50:24.975 --> 01:50:34.355
Um, but we only came together, you know, about six years ago and, um, Yeah, it was just, I was smitten immediately.

01:50:34.386 --> 01:50:36.815
Were you guitar goggles or just his character?

01:50:36.916 --> 01:50:39.015
No, just, he's just, he's a delight.

01:50:39.105 --> 01:50:39.416
Oh yeah.

01:50:39.426 --> 01:50:45.435
I mean, as you know, you know, we had been talking and chatting, you know, via phone and text for a little bit.

01:50:45.435 --> 01:50:51.095
And I, I was, I used to come out to, um, Colorado every summer to teach.

01:50:51.155 --> 01:50:55.576
I was teaching at a big conference and, um, the kids and I was all road trip.

01:50:55.735 --> 01:50:57.046
So we're big road trippers.

01:50:57.046 --> 01:50:58.036
We're big travelers.

01:50:58.065 --> 01:51:04.751
And, um, And I was like, Oh, yeah, the kids and I are coming out and he's like, Oh, you drove out?

01:51:04.761 --> 01:51:05.711
I was like, Yeah.

01:51:05.791 --> 01:51:06.690
He's like, You camped?

01:51:06.711 --> 01:51:07.440
I'm like, yeah.

01:51:07.591 --> 01:51:09.030
He's like, Oh, that's really cool.

01:51:10.291 --> 01:51:20.211
And so we made plans to meet up and he was coming down out of strawberry from a music festival and he, we, he met us for dinner and it's the first time I'd ever seen him in person.

01:51:20.400 --> 01:51:20.930
Oh, wow.

01:51:20.970 --> 01:51:24.041
And He walked in the door and I was like, I'm so fucked.

01:51:24.110 --> 01:51:27.551
I'm just, I just, I was immediately smitten.

01:51:27.551 --> 01:51:27.961
Is that right?

01:51:28.041 --> 01:51:28.541
Yeah.

01:51:28.640 --> 01:51:43.405
And, you know, it, it, Uh, he said something in the interview with you about boundaries and, you know, I say this in the, in a very constructive, loving way, like he really made me work for it.

01:51:43.515 --> 01:51:44.025
Really?

01:51:44.025 --> 01:51:44.953
Yeah.

01:51:44.953 --> 01:51:45.878
Interesting.

01:51:45.878 --> 01:51:46.805
Yeah.

01:51:46.805 --> 01:51:49.475
Because his heart was hurting from his relationship still?

01:51:49.485 --> 01:51:55.655
Well, because he just had, yeah, I think he, you know, he had just really become clear about what he would not do.

01:51:56.916 --> 01:51:58.155
Tolerate again.

01:51:58.336 --> 01:52:12.865
And he also just from the beginning was such a huge, huge advocate for me to like take my time and not rush into a relationship and figure out who I was going to be and make my life rad.

01:52:12.975 --> 01:52:15.155
And he was like, you don't need somebody else in it.

01:52:15.626 --> 01:52:21.265
And intellectually, I really was on board with that and physically you wanted to jump his bones.

01:52:21.286 --> 01:52:23.006
Well, I just was like, totally.

01:52:23.015 --> 01:52:23.336
Yeah.

01:52:23.386 --> 01:52:25.716
I was like, and also, I mean, I had been.

01:52:26.060 --> 01:52:32.291
I got married when I was in my mid twenties, I had met my previous partner when I was 19.

01:52:32.631 --> 01:52:42.081
So coming out of a relationship, it's like, you don't really realize the last time I was in a relationship when I was a fucking 19, like I got a lot to sort out.

01:52:42.501 --> 01:52:50.201
So I appreciate, and I think our relationship is so good because not that he made me work for it.

01:52:50.230 --> 01:52:52.430
Like, like I had to prove something to him, but.

01:52:52.511 --> 01:52:56.480
Um, he really was like, you gotta figure that out.

01:52:57.421 --> 01:52:58.490
You gotta figure that out.

01:52:58.490 --> 01:53:03.230
Like your life can be rad and it cannot be dependent on another person, whether that's me or somebody else.

01:53:03.270 --> 01:53:03.480
Yeah.

01:53:03.480 --> 01:53:03.860
Yeah.

01:53:04.140 --> 01:53:07.841
Um, so that was, seems like part of a thing that he learned for himself.

01:53:07.841 --> 01:53:09.320
100%.

01:53:09.320 --> 01:53:09.770
Right.

01:53:09.850 --> 01:53:10.911
Uh, relatively.

01:53:10.911 --> 01:53:11.270
Yeah.

01:53:11.661 --> 01:53:15.610
Um, I was going to ask a question and then I forgot what it was.

01:53:16.320 --> 01:53:18.650
Oh, um, you know, Max had this like.

01:53:19.206 --> 01:53:24.996
heavy motorcycle, uh, not crashed because somebody ran him over or whatever.

01:53:24.996 --> 01:53:25.336
Right.

01:53:25.666 --> 01:53:31.525
But he really got into a tough place, presumably, you know, some depression and stuff.

01:53:31.525 --> 01:53:35.796
And then kind of had the turnaround moment there, whatever, a year and a half ago or something.

01:53:35.796 --> 01:53:35.975
Yeah.

01:53:35.975 --> 01:53:36.395
Last summer.

01:53:36.810 --> 01:53:37.661
Just last summer.

01:53:37.780 --> 01:53:38.701
Yeah, last June.

01:53:38.780 --> 01:53:39.671
How was that?

01:53:39.740 --> 01:53:55.320
Like, yeah, you're like studying up on all this neuropsychology and stuff like that And he's like just leave me alone No, he was he leaning into that really so he's just he you know, he's really just an incredible Impeccable human.

01:53:55.421 --> 01:54:06.636
I just think most people would not have been able to navigate The way he did it was very interesting for us because we were like Friends Yeah.

01:54:06.685 --> 01:54:15.466
You know, and so I was coming into town a lot and we were traveling a lot together, motorcycling a lot together, and it was just like, this is my friend.

01:54:15.475 --> 01:54:19.685
You know, we were just definitely friends and having sex, which was fucking great.

01:54:19.735 --> 01:54:21.006
With benefits is what we call that.

01:54:21.046 --> 01:54:21.256
Yeah.

01:54:21.256 --> 01:54:23.576
And yeah, and, and it was fine because.

01:54:23.586 --> 01:54:24.256
But deep friends.

01:54:24.326 --> 01:54:24.826
Yeah.

01:54:24.826 --> 01:54:25.105
Obviously.

01:54:25.115 --> 01:54:27.405
Well, like intentionally building something.

01:54:27.555 --> 01:54:27.626
Yeah.

01:54:28.095 --> 01:54:40.326
Um, and I, At the time of the accident, my ex and I were still living together because we had decided that instead of doing the typical, let's have two homes, make the kids go back and forth.

01:54:40.975 --> 01:54:42.195
That's fucking bullshit.

01:54:43.326 --> 01:54:44.086
You're the adults.

01:54:44.095 --> 01:54:47.025
You should do the hard work and the kids should have it easy.

01:54:47.386 --> 01:54:52.725
So we stayed living together and you know, we had a whole system in place, but whatever we were.

01:54:52.735 --> 01:54:52.756
Yeah.

01:54:53.661 --> 01:54:57.190
My ex and I and the kids were all watching a movie and it's so sweet.

01:54:57.201 --> 01:55:03.320
My daughter, she even now, she, every time we watch, there's a silly movie called Jungle Cruise with The Rock.

01:55:04.341 --> 01:55:05.240
We were watching that.

01:55:05.730 --> 01:55:16.921
And when I got the call from his older daughter, his oldest daughter, Emma, and I just thought, I mean, I just, she told me he was in the hospital.

01:55:16.921 --> 01:55:18.020
She had told me what happened.

01:55:18.020 --> 01:55:22.305
And You know, we stopped the movie and I was like, I got to go to, I'm going to Colorado.

01:55:22.305 --> 01:55:25.115
Like, can you figure it out and be with the kids?

01:55:25.115 --> 01:55:33.985
And my daughter still, every time we even talk about that movie, she's like, she's like, I will never forget that we were watching that movie when Max got into his accident.

01:55:34.065 --> 01:55:34.185
Yeah.

01:55:34.676 --> 01:55:46.451
And I came, I, I, I asked permission From the girls to come because it's just such an intense and sensitive Moment.

01:55:46.591 --> 01:55:52.341
Yeah, and I we were not like, oh, we're in love and I'm your partner and there was no assumption, right?

01:55:52.390 --> 01:55:57.150
So there was like can I come and can I be how can I be supportive?

01:55:57.180 --> 01:55:59.740
And how can I be helpful and I?

01:55:59.820 --> 01:56:01.136
I I traveled.

01:56:01.136 --> 01:56:05.025
What an honoring question to those girls that are, you know, young adults of their own.

01:56:05.036 --> 01:56:06.355
Yeah, well, I just love them.

01:56:06.586 --> 01:56:10.206
Your claim is a little stronger on Max than mine so far, you know.

01:56:10.536 --> 01:56:12.225
Maybe not forever, but right now.

01:56:12.365 --> 01:56:13.225
Well, forever.

01:56:13.275 --> 01:56:14.765
100 percent forever.

01:56:14.775 --> 01:56:14.796
Yeah.

01:56:14.895 --> 01:56:15.273
Well, yeah.

01:56:15.273 --> 01:56:15.506
I mean.

01:56:15.626 --> 01:56:15.645
Yeah.

01:56:15.836 --> 01:56:17.405
In my, in my point of view.

01:56:17.416 --> 01:56:20.860
But daughters grow up and become their own people and stuff, too, to a certain extent.

01:56:20.860 --> 01:56:22.368
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true.

01:56:22.368 --> 01:56:24.735
Whereas you might be with Max for 30 years.

01:56:24.756 --> 01:56:25.275
Yeah.

01:56:25.355 --> 01:56:28.235
Well, I just, I was so aware of, like, my place.

01:56:28.235 --> 01:56:29.189
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:56:29.189 --> 01:56:33.916
And it was, it was a very special thing to just, Emma was like, yes, please come.

01:56:33.945 --> 01:56:34.365
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:56:34.365 --> 01:56:34.956
Please come.

01:56:34.956 --> 01:56:36.666
And so I was on a plane the next morning.

01:56:36.685 --> 01:56:36.956
Yeah.

01:56:37.105 --> 01:56:40.746
And then I traveled back and forth for, you know.

01:56:41.315 --> 01:56:46.345
That was the end of July, August, September, October, for three straight months I was here every other week.

01:56:46.395 --> 01:56:46.815
Wow.

01:56:47.076 --> 01:56:52.496
And, um, Disrupting all kinds of stuff that you had going on with your business partner and plans for the summer.

01:56:52.506 --> 01:56:55.935
Yeah, I mean, but luckily I could, you know, my work was flexible.

01:56:55.935 --> 01:56:57.155
I could work from anywhere.

01:56:58.015 --> 01:56:59.345
It was, Could you?

01:56:59.690 --> 01:57:00.070
Yeah.

01:57:00.171 --> 01:57:00.440
Oh, you did?

01:57:00.671 --> 01:57:00.940
Yeah.

01:57:00.980 --> 01:57:04.930
You can separate pretty good like that and just like, okay, I got to put six hours in working a day.

01:57:05.020 --> 01:57:05.310
Yeah.

01:57:05.310 --> 01:57:12.610
Well, I mean, one thing I have always really been good at is I have never like compartmentalized myself or my life.

01:57:12.690 --> 01:57:26.270
And so I flow pretty easily from work to living to, you know, um, wishes came in real handy because there's a lot of intensity and caretaking and, um, yeah, it was just a real honor.

01:57:26.280 --> 01:57:26.301
Yeah.

01:57:26.640 --> 01:57:26.780
Yeah.

01:57:27.001 --> 01:57:28.020
To be a part of that.

01:57:28.020 --> 01:57:33.091
And then to be a part of it, you know, he did struggle, man, he struggled.

01:57:33.270 --> 01:57:33.461
Yeah.

01:57:33.530 --> 01:57:35.001
And it was hard sometimes.

01:57:35.740 --> 01:57:41.831
to, you know, to show up and, uh, after that October, I was like, I just, I need to stay home for a little bit.

01:57:41.831 --> 01:57:51.831
I need to, I need a break, you know, I'm like, I'm coming here and I'm caretaking and supporting and then I'm, and then I'm going home and I'm caretaking and supporting my own tribe.

01:57:51.831 --> 01:57:58.600
And, well, and really from there, you kind of, you know, slowly trickled downhill really in his physical health for the next six or nine months.

01:57:58.610 --> 01:58:00.360
Yeah, it was such a challenge.

01:58:00.501 --> 01:58:06.270
It was such a challenge, but it was a pivotal moment as these things are, you know, for our relationship.

01:58:06.270 --> 01:58:07.820
And, um, Oh yeah.

01:58:07.820 --> 01:58:10.161
Once you walk through the fire together, you're galvanized kind of.

01:58:10.180 --> 01:58:10.850
Yeah.

01:58:11.020 --> 01:58:13.451
And we just learned a lot about each other and sure.

01:58:13.600 --> 01:58:27.881
Yeah, now, now it's just so sweet and wonderful, and I really love, I'm starting to say and I feel like I have a life in California, which I love and is rich and is with my children, and then I really feel like I have a life here.

01:58:27.951 --> 01:58:28.240
Yeah.

01:58:28.421 --> 01:58:29.841
Which is really beautiful.

01:58:29.970 --> 01:58:30.261
Yeah.

01:58:30.350 --> 01:58:31.201
Would you ever move here?

01:58:32.595 --> 01:58:35.586
Um, I don't really think that's a thing we're going to do.

01:58:37.246 --> 01:58:42.605
I mean, you know, we're still, we're still like fiercely independent.

01:58:42.605 --> 01:58:42.815
Yeah.

01:58:42.815 --> 01:58:44.865
I'm in Sacramento for the next eight years.

01:58:44.865 --> 01:58:50.576
And, um, I think we will continue to walk our own paths for a long time.

01:58:50.970 --> 01:58:57.761
And, you know, Max has his career and his own ideas about, you know, what he wants his life to be like.

01:58:57.761 --> 01:58:59.810
And I'm a hundred percent in support of that.

01:59:00.121 --> 01:59:05.610
So wherever that takes him, you know, and his folks are getting older and, you know, my folks are getting older.

01:59:05.610 --> 01:59:13.091
So at some point I think we'll, we'll converge, we'll cohabitate, but it won't be for a while.

01:59:13.211 --> 01:59:14.730
It's just so great the way it is.

01:59:14.730 --> 01:59:20.060
I think, you know, having a long distance relationship has really worked for us.

01:59:21.296 --> 01:59:24.275
It made it, made our relationship pretty fucking great.

01:59:24.496 --> 01:59:28.305
We always just say, he always says like, I just always want you to think I'm cool.

01:59:28.996 --> 01:59:31.416
Like if you spend a little more time away from me, it'll be easier.

01:59:31.515 --> 01:59:32.229
Well, it's just good.

01:59:32.229 --> 01:59:33.171
It's just good.

01:59:33.171 --> 01:59:34.185
It's just healthy.

01:59:34.195 --> 01:59:35.065
No, a hundred percent.

01:59:35.065 --> 01:59:35.315
Yeah.

01:59:35.586 --> 01:59:35.765
No.

01:59:35.765 --> 01:59:37.155
And I think he's fucking rad.

01:59:37.256 --> 01:59:37.595
Right.

01:59:37.636 --> 01:59:38.945
And he thinks I'm rad.

01:59:38.945 --> 01:59:39.305
Right.

01:59:39.685 --> 01:59:43.746
So, you know, if we can just keep that going, yeah.

01:59:43.916 --> 01:59:44.315
I dig it.

01:59:44.786 --> 01:59:46.676
Anything else you want to touch on in family?

01:59:47.445 --> 01:59:51.685
Um, Is there anything more on your girl, your daughter, your son?

01:59:51.685 --> 01:59:54.796
Um, I mean, they're just, it's just great.

01:59:54.805 --> 01:59:56.565
You know, it's just all really great.

01:59:56.975 --> 02:00:00.725
And, you know, being a parent is not particularly easy.

02:00:01.815 --> 02:00:03.145
So I'm getting better at it.

02:00:03.195 --> 02:00:03.466
Yeah.

02:00:03.536 --> 02:00:04.055
That's good.

02:00:04.136 --> 02:00:04.315
Good.

02:00:04.336 --> 02:00:05.095
You'll be perfect at it.

02:00:05.145 --> 02:00:06.756
Maybe you could adopt one.

02:00:07.206 --> 02:00:07.496
No.

02:00:07.496 --> 02:00:08.076
Fuck no.

02:00:09.046 --> 02:00:09.286
Wow.

02:00:09.725 --> 02:00:10.065
No.

02:00:10.645 --> 02:00:13.836
I mean, kudos to folks who do, but that's not for me.

02:00:13.926 --> 02:00:15.636
Uh, faith or politics?

02:00:15.676 --> 02:00:16.225
Okay.

02:00:16.265 --> 02:00:16.725
Yeah.

02:00:16.916 --> 02:00:17.626
Uh, faith.

02:00:18.126 --> 02:00:29.115
Um, yeah, I think, um, You mentioned your dad didn't want you cussing out there when you said, yeah, my dad, yeah, my dad, my dad's family, um, was protestant is my dad.

02:00:29.115 --> 02:00:31.605
My dad is really fascinating.

02:00:31.615 --> 02:00:38.536
He's like deeply, uh, I mean, I guess he's religious or spiritual.

02:00:38.536 --> 02:00:41.791
I say faith instead of religious because I think religion is kind of gross.

02:00:41.791 --> 02:00:42.279
I know.

02:00:42.279 --> 02:00:43.743
And faith is kind of awesome.

02:00:43.743 --> 02:00:52.270
Well, I think, I think, yeah, I mean, I think if I were to categorize him, I would say he has a lot of faith, but he, he definitely sees it through the lens of Christianity.

02:00:52.530 --> 02:00:52.591
Yeah.

02:00:52.621 --> 02:00:57.621
He's like, he prides himself in the fact that he's read the Bible like 20 times.

02:00:57.631 --> 02:00:57.930
Right.

02:00:58.060 --> 02:01:01.990
He has his own interpretation of it and I like, I love that about him.

02:01:01.990 --> 02:01:03.921
I believe the Bible and I do whatever the hell I want.

02:01:04.110 --> 02:01:04.961
Well, it's not like that.

02:01:04.961 --> 02:01:07.220
He's like, here's what I believe the Bible is saying.

02:01:07.230 --> 02:01:07.770
Right, right.

02:01:07.850 --> 02:01:16.140
Um, he's like, I don't believe I have to go to church in order to believe in God and worship God and have faith and gratitude and Well, that's the religious stuff, kind of, to some extent.

02:01:16.201 --> 02:01:21.180
So it's kind of, it's quite beautiful and sweet and But that wasn't, hasn't become your faith?

02:01:21.390 --> 02:01:32.126
No, I just, uh, you know, uh It was the, my, well my mom, uh, so I'm part Greek, my mom comes from kind of a Greek, Greek Orthodox background more.

02:01:32.905 --> 02:01:35.115
So we did that for a little while, that was interesting.

02:01:35.176 --> 02:01:37.895
That wasn't her jam either, but she was, yeah she tried.

02:01:38.225 --> 02:01:39.435
And I tried the Christian thing.

02:01:39.435 --> 02:01:40.525
I'm part Greek too, actually.

02:01:40.595 --> 02:01:40.786
Oh, cool.

02:01:40.836 --> 02:01:51.015
My, uh, my dad's My grandfather was adopted from Lutheran social services as a Greek immigrant, probably.

02:01:51.676 --> 02:01:52.395
Uh, yeah.

02:01:52.435 --> 02:01:56.865
My dad's got black hair, blue eyes, which is pretty rare among Americans, except for among the Greeks.

02:01:56.886 --> 02:01:57.355
Yeah.

02:01:57.515 --> 02:01:58.006
Yeah.

02:01:58.475 --> 02:02:03.365
So my, my grandfather was a full blooded Greek, although he was born here in the States.

02:02:03.395 --> 02:02:03.775
Okay.

02:02:03.865 --> 02:02:06.331
Um, and, uh, Yeah, it's beautiful.

02:02:06.331 --> 02:02:07.831
My mom's maiden name is Besotis.

02:02:07.970 --> 02:02:08.270
Oh, nice.

02:02:08.480 --> 02:02:15.100
Uh, and, um, yeah, so, anyway, Greek Orthodox thing we did for a little while.

02:02:15.320 --> 02:02:16.150
You checked it out a little bit.

02:02:16.150 --> 02:02:21.171
But I grew up in a tiny little town where there were more churches than there were of anything else.

02:02:21.291 --> 02:02:21.461
Yeah.

02:02:21.480 --> 02:02:22.671
Like, stoplights.

02:02:22.980 --> 02:02:23.461
Oh, interesting.

02:02:23.541 --> 02:02:26.440
So, a very Protestant, very, you know, farmer.

02:02:26.461 --> 02:02:28.591
There were a lot of Dutch folks in our community.

02:02:28.591 --> 02:02:28.940
Okay.

02:02:29.131 --> 02:02:30.371
Um, I tried.

02:02:30.421 --> 02:02:47.525
I just, I tried again and again to like, you know, Do the thing and I went to the teen youth groups and you know, I just, when I got into college, I was like, Oh God, just doesn't like, I don't, I just don't think this is the, this is not the right thing.

02:02:47.716 --> 02:02:49.506
So what, uh, like.

02:02:49.685 --> 02:02:53.405
Some of the questions I like to ask are like, is there like a creator force?

02:02:53.435 --> 02:02:58.595
Is there a conscience behind the design of the universe that said, okay, go big bang.

02:02:58.756 --> 02:02:59.166
Yeah.

02:02:59.195 --> 02:03:02.296
I mean, think of myself, I think loosely as an agnostic.

02:03:02.636 --> 02:03:04.345
I'm definitely not an atheist.

02:03:04.345 --> 02:03:08.716
I don't, you're not here to say Jesus never existed or, well, I don't know.

02:03:08.735 --> 02:03:16.850
I mean, I think it's a, it's a sweet bit of mythology, you know, whether he was a person or not maybe, but, um, Yeah.

02:03:16.911 --> 02:03:19.501
I don't really, I don't really buy into all that.

02:03:19.501 --> 02:03:25.730
I do think there is a energy, there is a, there's some kind of universal force.

02:03:25.780 --> 02:03:26.240
Yeah.

02:03:26.240 --> 02:03:26.320
Yeah.

02:03:26.320 --> 02:03:29.610
Um, I just think there is no possible way.

02:03:29.671 --> 02:03:31.001
We know all the answers.

02:03:31.180 --> 02:03:31.541
Right.

02:03:31.551 --> 02:03:31.990
I agree with that.

02:03:32.030 --> 02:03:39.211
And I also think when you die, like your current consciousness just dissipates, you know?

02:03:39.341 --> 02:03:39.591
Yeah.

02:03:39.591 --> 02:03:41.171
I mean, I, I do.

02:03:41.711 --> 02:03:44.461
I mean, I don't spend a lot of time thinking about this honestly.

02:03:45.331 --> 02:03:53.631
Because I'm focused on like just living well, you know, and and but why like why don't you just feel because it feels good Okay.

02:03:53.631 --> 02:04:03.730
Yeah, so that's that kind of nervous system response feels feels good to be good feels good to love Where do we get a conscience from do you suppose is that internally created or is it externally?

02:04:06.640 --> 02:04:08.331
Uh, I don't know.

02:04:08.371 --> 02:04:12.261
I mean, I think consciousness comes from your physiology.

02:04:12.291 --> 02:04:14.780
Well, not consciousness, but conscience.

02:04:14.841 --> 02:04:15.631
Oh, conscience.

02:04:15.801 --> 02:04:16.761
Oh yeah.

02:04:16.921 --> 02:04:19.730
Like, is that from inside you or is it almost external?

02:04:20.121 --> 02:04:22.411
I kind of think it's like ancestral.

02:04:22.411 --> 02:04:24.171
I think it's like passed down.

02:04:24.180 --> 02:04:30.331
There's a rightness and, um, and, uh, Like do no harm thing that is passed down.

02:04:30.761 --> 02:04:39.261
Like I've, you were one of the episodes I listened to, you were talking about previous guests and you were saying, saying something about like people are inherently good.

02:04:39.440 --> 02:04:39.911
Yeah.

02:04:40.020 --> 02:04:43.301
I mean, I, I think, I think that, I think people are just doing the best they can.

02:04:43.591 --> 02:04:44.011
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:04:44.740 --> 02:04:44.911
Yeah.

02:04:44.911 --> 02:04:48.524
He said most people are trying to do the best they can most of the time or something like that.

02:04:48.524 --> 02:04:48.841
Yeah.

02:04:48.841 --> 02:04:54.360
You know, so I, I kind of, I believe in that and I, I don't know if that's true.

02:04:54.360 --> 02:04:56.390
I'm a slacker ass a lot of times.

02:04:56.970 --> 02:04:57.470
You what?

02:04:57.581 --> 02:04:58.411
I'm a slacker.

02:04:58.520 --> 02:05:07.198
Like I'm not doing the best I can most of the time, I'm doing the best I can some of Well, I think this is such an interesting conversation that we definitely do not have time for.

02:05:07.198 --> 02:05:08.238
Yeah, we got to cruise.

02:05:08.238 --> 02:05:20.195
I don't want to rush us, but I think it's like, um, But are you though, like, are there factors at play that are preventing you from taking a particular kind of action?

02:05:20.466 --> 02:05:26.296
Or are you literally just saying like, I could actually be a good person or I can be a total shit and so I'm gonna choose to be a total shit?

02:05:26.416 --> 02:05:27.395
Yeah, I don't know.

02:05:27.746 --> 02:05:28.036
Yeah.

02:05:28.086 --> 02:05:38.975
Um, And I've, you know, to quickly go back to the moment, like they say, our, our, our brains kind of logically justify doing the things that we feel like doing.

02:05:41.065 --> 02:05:45.015
Yeah, well, that's a thinking, when you're always just thinking about a thing, right?

02:05:45.695 --> 02:05:46.536
Yeah, I don't know.

02:05:46.966 --> 02:05:48.006
I wish we had two more hours.

02:05:48.235 --> 02:05:48.716
I know.

02:05:48.895 --> 02:05:49.895
All right, politics.

02:05:50.256 --> 02:05:54.225
Uh, good that the would be assassin, uh, shot.

02:05:54.761 --> 02:05:58.871
Were he shot or could have just as soon popped him?

02:05:59.180 --> 02:06:00.501
Oh, gosh, sorry.

02:06:00.501 --> 02:06:01.501
I shouldn't put a question like that.

02:06:01.520 --> 02:06:02.680
Yeah, rude.

02:06:02.701 --> 02:06:02.940
Yeah.

02:06:03.860 --> 02:06:05.430
Well, not, I don't know.

02:06:05.430 --> 02:06:07.511
So let me, let me tell you that it was pretty crazy though.

02:06:07.511 --> 02:06:07.810
Right?

02:06:07.841 --> 02:06:12.650
Like, I bet everybody's going to remember where they were when they heard that Trump got an assassination attempt.

02:06:13.421 --> 02:06:22.786
Well, I will just be really transparent and say, it's, it's just, it's definitely a thought I have had, like, if somebody would just take care of this, then we move.

02:06:23.115 --> 02:06:23.706
Oh, I get it.

02:06:23.716 --> 02:06:30.786
I mean, I don't actually want I shared that thought with my dad last spring, and he'll almost certainly vote for Trump.

02:06:30.826 --> 02:06:31.587
Yeah, my dad too.

02:06:31.587 --> 02:06:35.725
But he was like, it might just be the better thing, best thing for our country if that crazy fucker was killed.

02:06:35.756 --> 02:06:38.626
I wish we had DeSantis in there or somebody less crazy.

02:06:38.666 --> 02:06:39.176
I know.

02:06:39.195 --> 02:06:39.586
I know.

02:06:39.595 --> 02:06:39.845
I get it.

02:06:40.070 --> 02:06:42.581
I, I have had Although we don't want to set a precedence like that, I think.

02:06:42.591 --> 02:06:43.371
No, God, no.

02:06:43.381 --> 02:06:46.520
And we also just don't want to advocate for killing people we don't like.

02:06:46.600 --> 02:06:47.251
Right.

02:06:47.430 --> 02:06:47.791
Exactly.

02:06:48.310 --> 02:06:51.310
Well, and so there's a question for you in the political realm, then.

02:06:51.690 --> 02:07:08.100
There's a lot of narrative being generated by the Republicans right now, especially like, hey, um, just so you know, you guys calling Donald Trump Hitler and an existential threat to this democracy every day, a hundred times a day, it has consequences.

02:07:08.230 --> 02:07:09.511
Yes, it's true.

02:07:09.511 --> 02:07:09.581
It's true.

02:07:10.150 --> 02:07:12.091
And, um, how do you feel about that?

02:07:12.131 --> 02:07:14.411
Well, I just think it's all just so fucked up.

02:07:15.350 --> 02:07:30.940
I mean, honestly, it's like, uh, I heard Max say in the, in the interview with you, like the thing I really think something I believe strongly is that words matter and it just, it just, you know, just keeps taking root, you know?

02:07:30.940 --> 02:07:33.060
And we, we are fearful.

02:07:33.470 --> 02:07:35.211
Yeah, we, we are fearful.

02:07:35.886 --> 02:07:55.775
I mean, not to keep, keep respond, you know, going back to the nervous system, but we all respond differently when we're afraid, you know, and it's unreasonable and irrational and you're trying to make sense out of something that you just, I think, cannot make sense out of, you know, do you think, uh, Trump derangement syndrome is real?

02:07:56.326 --> 02:07:57.286
Oh, I've not heard of that.

02:07:57.376 --> 02:08:05.536
Oh, that's like when people get almost like visibly like orange man bad to the extent that they couldn't even accept that he might be not Hitler.

02:08:06.025 --> 02:08:06.485
Hmm.

02:08:07.365 --> 02:08:13.046
I mean, I think anything is possible and people are having incredibly strong responses.

02:08:13.055 --> 02:08:14.216
Huge traumatic responses.

02:08:14.246 --> 02:08:14.905
Yes.

02:08:15.145 --> 02:08:16.345
In both in general.

02:08:16.345 --> 02:08:16.716
Yeah.

02:08:16.756 --> 02:08:20.235
They're either like, he's the fucking God or he's the fucking devil.

02:08:20.246 --> 02:08:20.515
Right.

02:08:20.595 --> 02:08:22.445
I mean, really, it's so interesting.

02:08:22.485 --> 02:08:27.166
And I am much like Max, which is why we're partners.

02:08:27.525 --> 02:08:31.190
I just try to, mitigate my exposure.

02:08:31.520 --> 02:08:38.011
I, I lean into people that I trust to like help me interpret things I don't understand that are too politically complex.

02:08:38.411 --> 02:08:41.560
I try to make wise decisions based on the information that I have.

02:08:42.400 --> 02:08:45.775
I don't want Trump to be president, but I think he might be.

02:08:46.036 --> 02:08:50.985
And so it seems likely, you know, at this point, you know, I just, I'm like, well, what, okay.

02:08:50.985 --> 02:09:00.935
So if that's, if, if that's a possible outcome, even possible, what can I do right here, right now for myself, for my family, for my community to like stabilize.

02:09:01.470 --> 02:09:04.900
And, and keep doing, like, just keep being a good human.

02:09:04.900 --> 02:09:05.439
Keep doing good work.

02:09:05.439 --> 02:09:07.643
Well, it probably won't affect your day to day life very much.

02:09:07.643 --> 02:09:24.091
No, but it's going to affect my kids and their kids and, you know, that's a thing I, I am thinking about and I still just always come back to my number one, the, the place that I can make the most impact is by raising beautiful children.

02:09:24.520 --> 02:09:26.810
I'll do one more question in politics and then I'll move on.

02:09:26.850 --> 02:09:27.161
Okay.

02:09:31.786 --> 02:09:40.046
That debate with Biden kind of almost proved that he should be a dementia care facility instead of the president right now.

02:09:40.055 --> 02:09:40.655
Such a bummer.

02:09:40.746 --> 02:09:46.725
Why do you think, like, I don't, like, they're all pretending, oh, we just found out kind of, but they didn't just found out.

02:09:46.735 --> 02:09:54.530
Like, there's a whole lot of people that knew that he was, losing his capacity Mojo way before.

02:09:54.560 --> 02:10:01.770
Like, why did the Democrats run him instead of letting kind of a normal democratic nomination process run out?

02:10:01.770 --> 02:10:03.190
That is a good fucking question.

02:10:03.240 --> 02:10:06.711
Like they blackballed Kennedy out of the democratic process.

02:10:07.025 --> 02:10:07.676
Basically.

02:10:07.855 --> 02:10:08.956
Yeah, which is crazy.

02:10:09.086 --> 02:10:09.475
Right.

02:10:11.145 --> 02:10:11.355
Yeah.

02:10:11.365 --> 02:10:12.296
So why did they do that?

02:10:12.395 --> 02:10:13.555
Like, this just doesn't make any sense.

02:10:13.645 --> 02:10:16.525
Because they'd like to have a dementia patient as the president?

02:10:16.555 --> 02:10:23.176
Is that, that's kind of what I've come to believe is that they kind of like having somebody very moldable.

02:10:23.895 --> 02:10:25.126
And I don't know who the president is.

02:10:25.126 --> 02:10:25.926
Is it Jill?

02:10:25.945 --> 02:10:27.435
Is it Barack Obama?

02:10:27.435 --> 02:10:29.076
Is it his cabinet?

02:10:29.076 --> 02:10:33.555
But the cabinet says they haven't met with him for months, nine months since he met with any of his cabinet members.

02:10:34.685 --> 02:10:41.405
Yeah, so you're, you're, you're propositioning this idea that maybe it's because he's more malleable.

02:10:41.435 --> 02:10:41.945
Right.

02:10:42.355 --> 02:10:42.605
Yeah.

02:10:42.605 --> 02:10:45.355
I would like to have a robot of sorts.

02:10:45.576 --> 02:10:52.126
I mean, I am very undereducated in the realm of politics, but to me that makes a lot of sense.

02:10:52.126 --> 02:10:54.296
I mean, why wouldn't you want to have a puppet?

02:10:55.275 --> 02:10:56.411
But whose puppet is he?

02:10:57.730 --> 02:11:13.430
Like, that's the scary thing to me about, frankly, where the Democrats, like, I get, I get the Trump thing and whatever, but also the, the process by which the Democrats came to nominate Joe Biden to be the president for four more years terrifies me.

02:11:13.581 --> 02:11:14.600
Yeah, it's pretty, yeah.

02:11:14.631 --> 02:11:16.060
I mean, I wish I knew.

02:11:16.496 --> 02:11:16.775
Right.

02:11:16.786 --> 02:11:17.586
What that was.

02:11:17.615 --> 02:11:18.416
I wish I knew.

02:11:18.615 --> 02:11:19.546
Who were the deciders?

02:11:19.546 --> 02:11:19.926
Yeah.

02:11:20.426 --> 02:11:22.796
I mean, none of it, honestly, just none of it makes sense.

02:11:23.365 --> 02:11:23.426
Totally.

02:11:23.426 --> 02:11:24.935
I, I just, you know, I just.

02:11:24.935 --> 02:11:25.525
It's a shitstorm.

02:11:25.565 --> 02:11:27.395
I keep just like, I, I.

02:11:27.395 --> 02:11:28.305
It's a flaming dumpster fire.

02:11:28.345 --> 02:11:28.855
Yeah.

02:11:28.865 --> 02:11:36.315
And best if we just look away and I, I like go in because I want to be informed, but then I step right back out because I'm like, I don't know how to make sense of this.

02:11:36.336 --> 02:11:40.855
Like, I gotta just work to make sense out of what I can touch and what I can see.

02:11:40.855 --> 02:11:43.506
So, uh, you're going from here to a party.

02:11:43.966 --> 02:11:45.166
Yes, we're having a party.

02:11:45.166 --> 02:11:46.286
Tell me.

02:11:46.496 --> 02:11:48.086
Yeah, so Max is so sweet.

02:11:48.086 --> 02:11:53.435
So this is the fourth year and he's been throwing a party for me and our friend Mike McDonald.

02:11:53.456 --> 02:11:55.685
We share very close birthdays.

02:11:56.895 --> 02:12:01.815
And this year we've added our friend Allison, whose birthday is like in between the two of us.

02:12:01.815 --> 02:12:02.020
Nice.

02:12:02.020 --> 02:12:02.225
Nice.

02:12:02.586 --> 02:12:09.216
He hosts this beautiful backyard party and we potluck and we have a great time and we drink bourbon and I like it.

02:12:09.216 --> 02:12:09.996
It's really great.

02:12:10.206 --> 02:12:10.895
Yeah, it's so sweet.

02:12:11.015 --> 02:12:13.326
I love my life here, I, I'm glad.

02:12:13.331 --> 02:12:13.506
Yeah.

02:12:13.565 --> 02:12:14.136
I'm really glad.

02:12:14.166 --> 02:12:14.435
Yeah.

02:12:14.706 --> 02:12:16.416
Um, so last question.

02:12:17.155 --> 02:12:18.416
The Loco experience.

02:12:19.445 --> 02:12:19.685
Yeah.

02:12:19.685 --> 02:12:20.871
I've been thinking about this, this experience.

02:12:21.845 --> 02:12:22.765
I'm sure.

02:12:22.770 --> 02:12:23.291
I mean, I think.

02:12:26.530 --> 02:12:33.030
I think it just has been like being, gosh, I don't really know how to articulate this well.

02:12:36.480 --> 02:12:41.911
Uh, the craziest thing that has happened that has been rooted here has been Max's accident.

02:12:42.470 --> 02:12:42.970
Yeah, sure.

02:12:43.161 --> 02:12:51.070
I mean, that's both that it happened here on, you know, Taft, like I can drive by the place and know when it happened.

02:12:51.070 --> 02:12:57.520
I can being here and driving to PCH and doing all the things for so many months.

02:12:58.360 --> 02:12:59.980
It really anchored me here.

02:13:00.426 --> 02:13:04.246
I mean, this, this place is the place where it happened.

02:13:04.336 --> 02:13:04.565
Yeah.

02:13:04.565 --> 02:13:04.895
Yeah.

02:13:05.176 --> 02:13:07.966
And so I think that's the craziest thing.

02:13:08.206 --> 02:13:08.626
Right.

02:13:08.655 --> 02:13:10.746
Almost like a magnet that sucked you.

02:13:10.775 --> 02:13:16.695
You kind of had the option of being a part of this Northern Colorado region before that, but yeah, after that you're like part of it.

02:13:16.756 --> 02:13:17.305
Yeah.

02:13:17.365 --> 02:13:17.815
Yeah.

02:13:17.876 --> 02:13:24.826
And I, and also just the, the way and the level on which I got to know people and, and really love people.

02:13:25.881 --> 02:13:30.041
Know and trust the community that he is a part of or the communities that he's a part of.

02:13:30.070 --> 02:13:31.520
So many people fucking love him.

02:13:31.640 --> 02:13:32.001
Totally.

02:13:32.011 --> 02:13:33.631
Really, uh, incredible.

02:13:33.961 --> 02:13:35.961
So that's crazy too.

02:13:36.251 --> 02:13:37.435
Like, this, this is crazy.

02:13:37.796 --> 02:13:43.305
The community that radiates out of him is something that I have never experienced before.

02:13:43.685 --> 02:13:45.126
So that's kind of crazy too.

02:13:45.416 --> 02:13:45.805
I love it.

02:13:46.006 --> 02:13:46.336
Yeah.

02:13:46.355 --> 02:13:46.756
I love it.

02:13:47.195 --> 02:13:52.706
Um, well, I guess tell listeners how to find the, uh, embodied, what was it?

02:13:52.706 --> 02:13:53.555
Embodied Business Institute.

02:13:53.555 --> 02:13:54.235
Business Institute.

02:13:54.235 --> 02:13:55.235
I'm sorry.

02:13:55.235 --> 02:13:56.426
You gotta fucking simplify.

02:13:56.916 --> 02:14:02.536
No, it's been, and by the way, this has been like, I don't go 90, wait, no, 105 minutes.

02:14:02.536 --> 02:14:05.515
We pretty much went on nonstop, mostly just me learning about.

02:14:05.720 --> 02:14:06.551
stuff you know about.

02:14:06.551 --> 02:14:07.930
So thanks for that.

02:14:07.961 --> 02:14:09.060
Oh, you're so welcome.

02:14:09.110 --> 02:14:10.230
I love talking about it.

02:14:10.270 --> 02:14:11.430
I'd love nerdy now.

02:14:11.451 --> 02:14:12.930
I get really excited about it.

02:14:13.541 --> 02:14:15.970
Um, so thanks for the platform and the opportunity.

02:14:16.440 --> 02:14:20.121
It's nice to be on the other end of the podcasting platform.

02:14:20.591 --> 02:14:23.171
Um, yeah, the Embodied Business Institute.

02:14:23.270 --> 02:14:25.350
You can find us, that's our like URL.

02:14:25.350 --> 02:14:27.211
You can find us on, you know, we have a website.

02:14:27.291 --> 02:14:27.600
Yeah, yeah.

02:14:27.650 --> 02:14:36.275
Um, You can find me, Chantel Lopez, yeah, on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn and, uh, find out about the cool shit I'm doing.

02:14:36.275 --> 02:14:37.456
And podcast now too?

02:14:37.666 --> 02:14:38.536
We sure do.

02:14:38.546 --> 02:14:38.886
Okay.

02:14:38.945 --> 02:14:41.956
It's called Embodied Business Inspired Brain.

02:14:42.216 --> 02:14:42.935
Oh, okay.

02:14:43.015 --> 02:14:43.275
Yeah.

02:14:43.336 --> 02:14:44.796
And it is fucking cool.

02:14:45.905 --> 02:14:48.905
It is not two hours long an episode or two and a half.

02:14:48.945 --> 02:14:49.506
Oh my God.

02:14:50.036 --> 02:14:51.536
You got to go set up for a party.

02:14:51.756 --> 02:14:54.456
If you're still listening, you are a fucking trooper.

02:14:55.541 --> 02:14:57.140
Our episodes are 30 minutes.

02:14:57.421 --> 02:14:58.081
Check it out.

02:14:58.100 --> 02:15:00.261
It's Embodied Business Inspired Brain.

02:15:00.301 --> 02:15:01.331
It's really cool shit.

02:15:02.511 --> 02:15:03.211
Thanks, Chantel.

02:15:03.211 --> 02:15:04.070
I think you're cool shit.

02:15:04.220 --> 02:15:04.600
You're welcome.

02:15:05.230 --> 02:15:05.600
See you next time.

02:15:05.921 --> 02:15:06.270
Okay.

02:15:06.890 --> 02:15:07.371
Bye bye.

02:15:07.371 --> 02:15:07.529
Bye bye.