EXPERIENCE 205 | Dain Johnson - Founder & Owner of Rev 0 - Engineer turned Organizational Psychologist turned Coach for Engineers turned Managers, Leaders, and CEO’s

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Welcome back to the Loco Experience podcast.

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My guest today is Dane Johnson and Dane is the founder and owner of RevZero, uh, which trains coaches, um, engineers turned managers.

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Yeah, that's right.

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And, uh, then also the founder and co owner of Isolation Coffee.

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And thanks for bringing a coffee gift for one of our listeners.

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Bring that mic just a little closer.

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Sure.

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How about that?

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There you go.

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Perfect.

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Um, so, you know, obviously, let's, uh, let's talk about RevZero, because, um, it's really been an evolving enterprise for you, as we've known each other the last Plus years, probably.

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Yeah, it's gone through a few iterations, a few revisions of its own.

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You know, revision zero, rev zero, stands for revision zero.

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Okay.

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I got the name, but I started it eight years ago.

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Uh, founded the LLC while I had my corporate job.

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Okay.

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And I had no idea what it was going to turn into.

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Okay.

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You were just sick of working for the man?

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Yeah, I was.

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Okay.

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And so I knew the writing was on the wall, and I formed the LLC in July, and by October I had resigned, and I was working with a small startup out of Texas as a consultant.

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So RevZero became my consulting partner.

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business, the arm through which I did consulting and that focused on engineering project management.

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Okay.

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And since then it has evolved as I have as well into psychology and behavior of people at work.

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And so now it's primarily coaching, which is all focused on individual performance at work.

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So you have a niche in engineers, but probably your toolkit isn't applicable to pretty much anybody.

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Is that so, or is it kind of designed for that engineering mindset, if you will?

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Uh, the coaching experience doesn't change based off of the, uh, individual's background, right?

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So if I'm coaching an engineer, or a CTO, or a CEO, whether they have a technical background or not, the methods are the same.

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The difference is my ability to relate to the engineer, um, because I am one.

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I was an engineer for 10 years, a mechanical engineer working in large corporations and small companies.

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So I'm familiar with their challenges.

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I'm familiar with their, their background.

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Uh, and so there's just.

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You know, for coaching to be effective, there has to be a relationship and trust immediately.

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And I find that my background just helps establish that trust faster.

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You know, I'm not, uh, um, I'm not coming in as a life coach, which a lot of them assume if you're going to get a coach that it's a life coach and of course we get into life.

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But with us sharing a lot of the similar background, um, it just builds that trust.

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Well, with our, you know, you've seen me present.

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One million cups and different things about loco think tank and, you know, our facilitators are, are You know, successful business veterans that have been there, done that.

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And so they already have that kind of instant credibility with those that are in it doing it right now.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And getting that credibility is so important.

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Uh, it takes a long time to build that, but if you have a shared experience, it's kind of built in.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Cool.

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So did you, like, did you learn the toolkit of relating with people and managing people and then later pivoted to that, or as you coached, you realized the.

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Opportunity in the marketplace?

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Uh, a very roundabout career path.

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Okay.

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Um, I joke with my wife that she, uh, knows people and just knows how to relate to people naturally.

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I had to go to grad school to figure that out.

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Okay.

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So, I have a master's degree in psychology.

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Okay.

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So I had to go back to school just to learn how to work with people.

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And it really all started when I was working at ExxonMobil.

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Largest corporation at the time.

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That was my first job out of college.

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And here was a corporation with engineers from interns to CEO.

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Every layer of management was engineering.

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And of course we were coming up with the right technical solution.

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Our projects were very well managed.

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We had them well planned, well controlled, but there was always this element at play that I didn't.

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I didn't quite understand and I didn't feel like most folks had an idea of how to work with it.

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And that was the people element.

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And so, an example, I'd go to these root cause analysis meetings where some major piece of equipment failed and we'd spend the whole day talking about why it failed.

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And so we'd break down all the components.

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Because that engineer doesn't love his job.

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And this is where it would get to.

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It would get to the people side and then the analysis would stop.

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So we'd get to the point where, okay, it was operator error or some managerial cultural thing.

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We don't know how to work with culture and people and operators.

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So we're just going to stop the analysis right there.

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And figure out how to change our design so that people aren't factored into it at all.

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Like try to engineer the people out of it.

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And you couldn't do that with everything.

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Um, and so that just started me on this path of discovery.

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Um, of one book after the next.

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And before you know it I'm studying psychology trying to figure out how people work.

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And I still haven't figured it out.

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This is in your side hustle.

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Like here's basically a bookworm on the side of your regular engineering job where you're, what were you, what were you doing in designing?

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Yeah.

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Uh, at Exxon, my job was machinery engineer, so I was doing turbo machinery, which is the pumps, compressors, uh, gas turbines, anything that rotated.

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Okay.

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Uh, I was in the group engineering that, and I was working large projects internationally.

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So I was in Korea, Angola, Norway, traveling the world to all these.

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facilities, um, you know, inspecting these multimillion dollar pieces of equipment.

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And, uh, so that was my engineering background.

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And they're failing for different reasons because they're all in different kinds of environments, but also the maintenance schedule is not the same with everybody's operation of it and different things like that too, right?

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We designed one spec and we maybe write it for West Texas, but then we want to install that piece of equipment in Siberia or Africa.

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Right.

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I was working on subsea technology, which is, we were designing.

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Um, five megawatt driven pumps that could sit on the ocean floor for years without being retrieved.

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And so these were things that were, that had to work perfectly.

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It's almost like putting things in space.

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The only difference is, uh, it can weigh as much as you want it to going into the ocean.

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What, uh, is that used to pump seawater out of the ocean for something?

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No.

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So this was a technology development program, a project we were looking at of, you're familiar with offshore oil production, where you see these big rigs floating out there in the Gulf of Mexico.

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Um, we were looking at how do you put some, a lot of that equipment on the sea floor?

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Could you just have it right at the wellhead?

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Um, have a separator underwater, have pumps, have compressors underwater, do that work on the seafloor, and then just have long, uh, pipelines, because so much of what comes out of a reservoir is water.

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And so, if you could re inject it.

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Without ever bringing it up to the surface.

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You could save a ton of money and also make it a lot safer, right?

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Right, right.

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Well, and if you do make mistakes and spill stuff, it's all the way down there.

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Nobody can catch you as easy Well spilling was not something that was tolerated and the place that this was being rolled out, especially was the north see, uh, like offshore Norway, where it's very hazardous, very hazardous conditions.

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Um, we could barely figure out how to bomb the Nord stream, you know, saying I'll pump oil that easily.

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Yeah.

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Uh, so it was a really cool technical problem.

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Uh, let me see the world and work with some really awesome people.

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But, uh, I started to realize that this was not my career path because my library was full of.

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Um, philosophy, psychology, uh, theology, like all these people things is what I ended up enjoying reading about and I didn't have any engineering books on my shelf.

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But yet your, your wife is the natural understander of people.

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So you invested in, would you, I would say that myself, I probably a better understander of people instinctively than many as well.

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Have you got as good at her at it now, or is your more from a, from a method at standpoint and peeling apart the onion instead of just understanding the onion when you look at it?

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Yeah, I'm constantly learning.

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Um, and I think why I've latched onto coaching is because it's moved away from the, um, theoretical.

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And it's now focused on the individual.

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Yeah.

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And I really like that.

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And I get to see the impact of my work far more than when I was doing, you know, change management plans or organizational development, treating people like statistics.

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Now I'm working one on one with the president of a company or the founder, CTO of a company.

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And.

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They're navigating the people problems, right?

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Because they figured out a technical issue, they figured out how to make money with it, and now they need people to scale it.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Um, but the, some of the advice I got Early on in my career, I was a very impatient person and I probably still am.

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Uh, but the advice I would get from mentors over and over again was just be patient.

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Be patient.

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And I hated hearing that.

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I wanted to know what I could do next.

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Right.

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So, I think grad school, I studied at CSU.

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Um, I think studying psychology for me, it didn't necessarily teach me how people work.

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It taught me how to be patient.

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So I've learned patience over the years.

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Fair, fair.

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Um, and so describe maybe an engagement.

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Like what would, Oh, I was going to just observe, I guess, that the, the value in, like your, your niche is pretty neat because, you know, engineers are worth whatever, you know, a hundred grand ish or whatever, but engineers that can manage engineers are worth twice that right?

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But a lot of engineers flame out, you know, like in my industry, I was, uh, I was a banker, I was a lender, you know, and I was pretty much just a hired gun, go get the bank, some more customers.

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And then, you know, some people became managers, you know, bank presidents and things like that, and other people didn't, and it mattered a lot as to what your value to the organization was.

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Yeah.

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And this is a value proposition.

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Um, you know, I believe that, you know, Engineers should be promoted into leadership positions in technical companies, uh, because other engineers want to work for engineers.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Customers want to buy from technical experts.

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Yeah.

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Um, and, and when something goes wrong, you want someone who understands the technology.

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If you're a manufacturer, if you're in IT, whatever it is, when something goes wrong, uh, people want the leadership who are making decisions to be intimately familiar with the product.

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Yeah.

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And so.

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There's great value in not having professional CEOs come in from a retail store operation and being the boss of a engineering company.

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Yeah.

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So there's definitely benefit to hiring, definitely a benefit to hiring internally in technical organizations.

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The problem is then that so many of them, it's just a sink or swim.

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Um, uh, promotion, right?

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It's promotion as a reward.

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Hey, you were good at this job.

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Let's promote you.

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Because you'll, you'll surely be good at other managing people who have your old job and that doesn't just happen organically.

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And so I, I got into this line of work so that engineers like, like I was, stay in their job because they learn how to enjoy it.

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Right.

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Um, I kind of Well, you can still be an engineer and manage a team of engineers successfully, uh, if you do it right.

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And, and there can be a huge, um, you know, personal benefit.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Like so much more enjoyable.

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And so you started to ask what a typical engagement looks like.

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Very few typical engagements.

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That's what I was wondering, like, even, is the, is the person paying for it out of their pocket?

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Or is the company buying this coaching for this guy that's starting to look like he's failing as a manager now?

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Not quite.

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So, it is the business that hires me.

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Okay.

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Um, however They're not hiring me for the person who needs remedial coaching.

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They're hiring me for the person who is the future CEO of that company.

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So the people that they see as having high potential that they want to invest in, that they're willing to invest in, they're, they're saying, hey, we promoted you not only for recognition of what you've done, we promoted you for anticipation of what you can do.

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And so in coaching, that's my focus, is realizing that potential.

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Because the systems and the structures in most companies aren't set up to provide that development opportunity, right?

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And also engineers we get we get used to learning a certain way and that's by the book and There are laws of physics.

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There are no laws of human behavior.

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Yeah, and so we spend our entire education Uh, focused in the books, we spend our entire early career focused on the technical solutions, assuming that there is a solution, um, and so focused on the formulas and the, the plans that when you get into management, it requires a new, new way of working in problems rather than on them.

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All right.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So I, I, I dabbled in education, you know, I tried to do some trainings.

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I'll do workshops every now and then, but the development of a manager is not a knowledge challenge.

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It's an ability.

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So when you mentioned that somebody, That could be the future CEO is oftentimes invested in through you by the company.

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But is that not person, not already managing people?

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They, they usually are.

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So I do get involved, uh, when they're already in a position of management, preparing someone for leadership role is almost like preparing someone to be a parent.

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They're not going to hold onto all that information until they have a kid that they're trying to figure out how to raise.

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So I tell, uh, companies when they're working with me, it's.

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After you've promoted someone, either I start coaching them that exact same week and we're just meeting one on one.

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There's no education involved.

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It's just having an external partner to help navigate this transition.

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So it's either right after the promotion or, or and.

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It's six months, nine months later where they've been in a position of management long enough that they've tried some things that they've made some mistakes.

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And they, they are willing to learn.

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It's not broken, but they've eaten humble pie, maybe for the first time.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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They've put in place all those, uh, brilliant ideas of, of time management and, uh, time reporting and how to run a meeting and haven't gotten the results they expected.

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Interesting.

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Um, and then.

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These companies, are they like 20 to 100 person companies, or are they bigger than that mostly?

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Would you work with director level people instead of CEO types, I imagine, too?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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On the low end, and this is from actual experience over the past couple years, on the low end it would be around 50.

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where they're starting to put in to place formal leadership structures.

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Yep.

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All right.

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There's a C suite basically.

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There's a C suite and it might be two people.

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Right.

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But then they're promoting someone else into director of operations or manager of operations.

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So it could be around that 30 to 50 people on the low end.

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On the high end, it's, it's a few thousand.

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Okay.

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It just depends on the evolution of the organization and do they have in house training and development.

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So most of the companies that hire me don't have training and development in house.

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Or if they do I'm getting to come in purely as a coach to, um, to add to the training to develop.

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Right.

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So I get to talk with Specifically for this role, probably.

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Yes.

00:17:13.114 --> 00:17:23.743
Um, I do have a program for first time managers and so a lot of small companies will send their people through this because for a first time manager, there are fundamental things to learn.

00:17:23.824 --> 00:17:24.134
Okay.

00:17:24.153 --> 00:17:25.124
What is the job?

00:17:25.463 --> 00:17:26.544
What does it mean to be a manager?

00:17:26.544 --> 00:17:27.794
What are my responsibilities?

00:17:27.923 --> 00:17:28.134
Right.

00:17:28.173 --> 00:17:29.903
Uh, they're not often being told that from their boss.

00:17:29.933 --> 00:17:30.344
Yeah.

00:17:30.403 --> 00:17:30.834
Yeah, yeah.

00:17:30.834 --> 00:17:32.284
In a small company, the boss doesn't.

00:17:32.659 --> 00:17:33.648
Always know even.

00:17:33.689 --> 00:17:33.919
Yeah.

00:17:33.919 --> 00:17:34.249
Yeah.

00:17:34.298 --> 00:17:36.419
No, that's a interesting observation.

00:17:36.439 --> 00:17:40.249
Um, can we talk about like what is the job of being a manager?

00:17:40.278 --> 00:17:53.328
There's probably a lot of managers out there listening to this podcast and even small business owners that Started a thing and now they find themselves Managing three to five people and sometimes not really managing them much, right?

00:17:54.259 --> 00:17:55.709
Like what does it look like really?

00:17:56.114 --> 00:18:06.534
Uh, there's five core responsibilities that I, that I talk about, but in the program, I always start with the most difficult person to manage first, and that's yourself.

00:18:07.344 --> 00:18:12.693
So we spend the first four weeks just talking about self management, like what is, what does that even mean?

00:18:13.483 --> 00:18:16.334
And then we spend four weeks talking about managing other people.

00:18:17.894 --> 00:18:22.794
I think the expectations of managers has changed over the past few years, decades.

00:18:22.844 --> 00:18:26.513
Uh, how Probably a much more emotionally tipped thing.

00:18:26.733 --> 00:18:26.874
Relationally.

00:18:26.933 --> 00:18:33.034
20, 30 years ago it was like, well, these are the five things I'm measuring you on and Yeah.

00:18:33.064 --> 00:18:34.844
You know, that's the end of the conversation.

00:18:34.913 --> 00:18:36.453
It'd be very transactional.

00:18:36.604 --> 00:18:36.834
Yeah.

00:18:36.913 --> 00:18:45.403
Uh, you know, you might be managing, uh, and it's, it's different if you're managing an engineering company versus a, uh, a restaurant or an assembly line.

00:18:45.614 --> 00:18:45.894
Right.

00:18:45.894 --> 00:18:46.054
Right.

00:18:46.054 --> 00:18:54.094
If you're, if your employees are paid more for what they can think up than what they can do with their hands, then the style of management is different.

00:18:54.808 --> 00:18:55.429
It's difficult.

00:18:55.459 --> 00:18:56.219
Very hard to measure.

00:18:56.249 --> 00:18:57.278
It's very difficult.

00:18:57.278 --> 00:18:58.519
So anyway, I sidetracked you.

00:18:58.519 --> 00:18:59.778
So what was that first?

00:18:59.868 --> 00:19:00.128
Yeah.

00:19:00.128 --> 00:19:04.229
So the, the, the responsibilities of a manager and these are, these apply to everyone.

00:19:04.229 --> 00:19:06.338
The first one is just to establish objectives.

00:19:06.788 --> 00:19:10.528
People are looking to you to understand what is it that we need to do?

00:19:10.598 --> 00:19:12.118
Why do we exist as a team?

00:19:12.828 --> 00:19:20.719
Um, and if you don't know where you're going as a manager, then you're probably just going to be stuck in the individual contributor role where you're just doing some engineering.

00:19:20.719 --> 00:19:22.179
These people are doing some engineering.

00:19:22.433 --> 00:19:23.493
And you're trying to bring it together.

00:19:23.523 --> 00:19:34.304
Oh, and that's, and that's different than the, like the, the mission and the vision and stuff of the company as a manager of a team of three or five or whatever, you've kind of also got to have your own real purpose, your objectives.

00:19:34.344 --> 00:19:34.804
Yeah.

00:19:34.804 --> 00:19:38.673
And I love OKRs, objectives and key results, because they're kind of stackable.

00:19:39.263 --> 00:19:44.104
And I see management as a collaborative sport that the manager is working with their.

00:19:44.558 --> 00:19:49.719
Uh, supervisor, the director, the director CEO.

00:19:50.009 --> 00:19:52.479
It's not a competition between the, the layers.

00:19:52.528 --> 00:19:52.858
Yeah, yeah.

00:19:52.878 --> 00:19:54.019
It's an integration.

00:19:54.068 --> 00:19:54.519
Yeah, yeah.

00:19:54.578 --> 00:20:02.598
And so when you're establishing the objectives as a manager, um, what I find is they're, the objectives aren't always established for them.

00:20:02.638 --> 00:20:03.068
Sure.

00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:04.249
They're just promoted.

00:20:04.949 --> 00:20:05.058
Right.

00:20:05.058 --> 00:20:07.249
And it's like, hey, this was actually some.

00:20:07.249 --> 00:20:07.865
Do good.

00:20:07.865 --> 00:20:08.481
Do good.

00:20:08.481 --> 00:20:16.618
Um, I will say that some of the, when I got hired for one of my engineering jobs and I asked, My hiring manager, like, what is my measure of success?

00:20:16.778 --> 00:20:18.338
And he just said, don't F up.

00:20:18.888 --> 00:20:19.398
And that was it.

00:20:19.469 --> 00:20:19.838
All right.

00:20:19.858 --> 00:20:20.788
So that is awesome.

00:20:20.788 --> 00:20:21.538
Sounds like a government job.

00:20:21.818 --> 00:20:22.929
No, it wasn't.

00:20:22.979 --> 00:20:23.868
No, I'm just kidding.

00:20:23.878 --> 00:20:25.108
A government job would have been better.

00:20:25.108 --> 00:20:26.159
There'd be more controls in place.

00:20:29.979 --> 00:20:32.519
So, um, so, but that's clutch, right?

00:20:32.528 --> 00:20:34.229
Like just knowing what we're trying to do here.

00:20:34.419 --> 00:20:34.638
Yep.

00:20:34.699 --> 00:20:42.348
Actually, that, uh, the blog I'm writing and is due Thursday morning and it's freaking already Tuesday afternoon is, uh, the power of the point.

00:20:42.479 --> 00:20:43.338
Uh, I like that.

00:20:43.378 --> 00:20:47.394
Uh, some analogy of like, you know, Arrows have points for a reason.

00:20:47.394 --> 00:20:50.913
And so should your, your day and each kind of hour, each half hour.

00:20:51.013 --> 00:20:51.493
Yeah.

00:20:52.513 --> 00:20:53.324
I like that.

00:20:53.364 --> 00:20:57.273
Um, and objectives are always in negotiation.

00:20:57.273 --> 00:21:01.384
They're always changing and what the point is, is always changing.

00:21:01.384 --> 00:21:05.384
And so this is just a starting point of a conversation for a new manager.

00:21:05.933 --> 00:21:15.354
Don't wait until you're giving an, given an objective, just write down what you think the objective is, take it to your boss and say, Hey, if this is where I focused my team.

00:21:15.969 --> 00:21:16.798
Is this the right thing?

00:21:16.868 --> 00:21:19.068
Well, and maybe sometimes, you know, take it to your team.

00:21:19.078 --> 00:21:19.929
And then you take it to your team.

00:21:20.239 --> 00:21:20.548
Right.

00:21:20.548 --> 00:21:23.558
And be like, is this, you know, this is the right objective?

00:21:23.568 --> 00:21:27.179
From my perspective, it kind of seems, especially if you're new in the position and they've been there.

00:21:27.259 --> 00:21:27.669
Yeah.

00:21:27.699 --> 00:21:29.429
You're like, is this what we're pointing toward here?

00:21:29.868 --> 00:21:30.128
Yeah.

00:21:30.128 --> 00:21:39.739
And it's a great point to take it to the team and have that conversation about, you know, sometimes the team knows better than you as the manager, what they can do and where they need to be and what they can accomplish.

00:21:40.098 --> 00:21:41.979
Um, especially if you're an outside hire.

00:21:42.098 --> 00:21:53.219
So if you were hired externally, um, It's folly to come in with your own objective, instead going to the team first and observing for a while and saying, all right, what do you guys do here?

00:21:53.219 --> 00:21:54.348
What do you want to accomplish?

00:21:55.189 --> 00:21:56.719
I kind of learned this as a consultant.

00:21:56.719 --> 00:22:02.239
When I was trying that out for a couple of years is the solutions are often already in the company.

00:22:02.388 --> 00:22:03.578
Someone's already saying it.

00:22:04.028 --> 00:22:06.558
They're just not in a position that anyone is listening to them.

00:22:07.159 --> 00:22:11.169
And so as a consultant, you go in and you're Yeah, the friction spots get noticed by somebody.

00:22:11.239 --> 00:22:11.538
Yeah.

00:22:11.788 --> 00:22:13.929
It's just And it's usually It doesn't make its way up the chain.

00:22:13.969 --> 00:22:18.618
And it's usually those people who don't have that job title of manager on them.

00:22:18.628 --> 00:22:19.048
Yeah, yeah.

00:22:19.088 --> 00:22:19.828
They're the engineer.

00:22:20.528 --> 00:22:29.564
So as a consultant, you talk to the frontline people as much as you can, the engineers, the operators, and you say What problem do you want me to to say needs to be solved?

00:22:29.673 --> 00:22:30.773
How would you like me to solve it?

00:22:30.804 --> 00:22:33.483
And I'll go tell the CEO and they'll listen to me because they're paying me for it.

00:22:33.483 --> 00:22:34.834
Interesting, interesting.

00:22:35.594 --> 00:22:40.263
Yeah, that was part of the the consulting that I, It's one of the reasons I moved away from it.

00:22:40.304 --> 00:22:41.023
Yeah, yeah, fair enough.

00:22:41.023 --> 00:22:44.723
I'd rather work with the CEO to help them listen better, Mmm.

00:22:44.784 --> 00:22:49.513
Uh, than to go Teach him to fish instead of like fixing every problem he's got.

00:22:49.604 --> 00:22:49.913
Yeah.

00:22:50.023 --> 00:22:50.203
Yeah.

00:22:50.223 --> 00:22:51.663
So objectives is number one.

00:22:51.693 --> 00:22:52.584
Establishing objectives.

00:22:52.584 --> 00:22:53.773
The second is to organize.

00:22:54.338 --> 00:22:54.848
Okay.

00:22:55.159 --> 00:22:56.128
Organize efforts.

00:22:56.318 --> 00:23:04.348
So thinking about, this is the, the coordination piece of being a manager, uh, understanding what each individual person is working on and bringing it together.

00:23:04.489 --> 00:23:04.709
Yeah.

00:23:04.769 --> 00:23:19.828
So whether you're going to use some sort of project management framework, um, agile methodology, product development, like there's so many different ways to organize and managers fall into the trap of trying to organize a certain way and, uh, it doesn't really matter the method.

00:23:20.173 --> 00:23:21.253
It's just that you do it.

00:23:21.334 --> 00:23:33.624
Yeah, I think, uh, not Confucius, but somebody else from way back then said something like, uh, a a a poor plan, uh, meticulously implemented beats a good, uh, brilliant plan left on the shelf.

00:23:33.693 --> 00:23:35.453
Yeah, yeah, and I I heard it.

00:23:35.578 --> 00:23:45.749
Yeah, and I can't remember if this was like, Steve Jobs gets so many things attributed to him, but it was like, um, it's not the, the plan that is valuable.

00:23:45.749 --> 00:23:46.808
It's the creation of the plan.

00:23:47.148 --> 00:23:48.138
Some paraphrasing.

00:23:48.638 --> 00:23:55.909
Um, and I find that it's, it's not so much whether you establish a good objective, write a great objective statement or not.

00:23:56.288 --> 00:23:58.479
It's the conversations that happen along the way.

00:23:58.743 --> 00:23:59.044
Yeah.

00:23:59.304 --> 00:24:06.233
So I don't want anyone I'm working with to jump into chat GPT and say, Hey, I'm a engineer of product development in an aerospace company.

00:24:06.233 --> 00:24:07.094
What's my objective?

00:24:07.114 --> 00:24:07.294
Yeah.

00:24:07.564 --> 00:24:08.983
And then it gives them nice words.

00:24:09.294 --> 00:24:13.903
It's one that organizes almost kind of an establishment of what the current situation is as well.

00:24:13.933 --> 00:24:14.203
Yeah.

00:24:14.523 --> 00:24:15.094
In some ways.

00:24:15.294 --> 00:24:16.094
Where are we?

00:24:16.354 --> 00:24:18.314
Uh, so it's setting the objective.

00:24:18.314 --> 00:24:19.023
Where do we want to be?

00:24:19.023 --> 00:24:20.223
And then you're looking at reality.

00:24:20.243 --> 00:24:20.923
Where are we?

00:24:20.933 --> 00:24:22.334
How do we need to organize?

00:24:22.364 --> 00:24:22.574
Yeah.

00:24:22.723 --> 00:24:23.784
What are our constraints?

00:24:23.894 --> 00:24:24.064
Right.

00:24:24.064 --> 00:24:26.173
And this is something engineers What resources do we have?

00:24:26.213 --> 00:24:26.364
Yeah.

00:24:26.364 --> 00:24:27.584
What constraints also?

00:24:27.794 --> 00:24:30.834
This is, and then constraints are what engineers are used to working with.

00:24:30.874 --> 00:24:31.223
Yeah.

00:24:31.253 --> 00:24:38.209
I mean, engineering is, um, at least mechanical engineering is physics constrained with time and money.

00:24:38.328 --> 00:24:38.749
Right.

00:24:38.959 --> 00:24:39.328
Right.

00:24:39.878 --> 00:24:45.078
I've, I've been a motorcycle guy for, you know, my dad was a motorcycle mechanic going back to when he was 14.

00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:52.249
And so I just, plus they're so visible, like a car is just hidden under a wrapper, right?

00:24:52.278 --> 00:24:57.409
Like the mechanical elements to it, but getting all those different engineers to work together.

00:24:57.429 --> 00:24:58.828
And this person's working on that.

00:24:58.828 --> 00:25:01.108
And, you know, in modern manufacturing, there's a lot of.

00:25:01.959 --> 00:25:07.729
Pop and switch and whatever you've been using the same engine platform for 25 years and you just strap some other wheels on it, whatever.

00:25:08.128 --> 00:25:12.298
But putting all those pieces together, especially for a all new vehicle.

00:25:13.219 --> 00:25:16.159
Man, it's so many different brains working on that.

00:25:16.278 --> 00:25:20.118
Yeah, it's so many different brains, so many different emotions at play.

00:25:20.148 --> 00:25:20.499
Right.

00:25:20.509 --> 00:25:21.828
And relationships involved.

00:25:22.088 --> 00:25:31.894
When I think about, like, taking that complexity of a problem from, you know, a 1972 Honda motorcycle, and then taking it up to, uh, uh, SpaceX.

00:25:32.134 --> 00:25:32.653
Mm hmm.

00:25:32.874 --> 00:25:34.344
And catching that thing.

00:25:34.874 --> 00:25:34.903
Yeah.

00:25:35.663 --> 00:25:36.203
You know.

00:25:36.263 --> 00:25:36.753
Yeah.

00:25:37.034 --> 00:25:44.713
And, and when you, that's going from engineering school to working as an engineer is the level of complexity just ratchets up rapidly.

00:25:44.824 --> 00:25:45.253
Mm hmm.

00:25:45.284 --> 00:25:49.644
Uh, you're used to working on a problem with a few variables.

00:25:49.663 --> 00:25:54.523
Now you're building a, a spaceship that not only needs to take off, it now needs to land and be caught.

00:25:54.763 --> 00:25:55.614
Right, right.

00:25:55.773 --> 00:25:56.864
Well, and there's, and there's.

00:25:57.169 --> 00:26:01.338
400 other engineers working on other parts of it than the specific part that you're working on.

00:26:01.439 --> 00:26:03.118
Yeah But you can't worry about them.

00:26:03.118 --> 00:26:03.449
Really?

00:26:03.459 --> 00:26:07.189
You just gotta Well, and that's somebody has to organize that.

00:26:07.348 --> 00:26:15.659
Yeah, and that's the manager and this is something that comes up over and over and over again Is that the manager regardless of the level in the in the organization?

00:26:15.989 --> 00:26:21.064
If you're in a position of management or leadership You are a connector, right?

00:26:21.094 --> 00:26:24.163
You are connecting individuals to the organization.

00:26:24.173 --> 00:26:26.173
You're connecting the organization to the individuals.

00:26:26.433 --> 00:26:28.324
You're connecting departments to each other.

00:26:29.163 --> 00:26:36.304
There's been tons of studies on communication and the impact of communication in productivity.

00:26:36.814 --> 00:26:40.644
And if you open up paths of communication beyond the org chart.

00:26:40.983 --> 00:26:44.894
That's when productivity and collaboration and creativity just flourish.

00:26:45.433 --> 00:26:49.304
And so having those managers who are those professional networkers, right?

00:26:49.304 --> 00:26:52.394
When their team is faced with a problem, they don't keep it within their silo.

00:26:52.394 --> 00:26:56.594
They say, Oh, you should go talk to Jeff over in electrical.

00:26:57.409 --> 00:26:57.679
Right.

00:26:57.719 --> 00:27:01.858
And so making those connections is a really important part of being a manager.

00:27:01.858 --> 00:27:05.838
Although I'd say it's not a, it's not a core responsibility.

00:27:05.999 --> 00:27:06.298
No.

00:27:06.378 --> 00:27:10.689
But communication and the ability to connect, I'd say are the fireable offense.

00:27:11.269 --> 00:27:16.969
If you fail at communicating and fail at connecting, you won't be in a position of leadership for long.

00:27:17.679 --> 00:27:17.989
Yeah.

00:27:18.058 --> 00:27:28.398
No, I think that's actually, sometimes I, I, I consider myself kind of more of a leader than a manager sometimes, and sometimes my communication is short.

00:27:28.469 --> 00:27:33.548
You know, I assume people already get what I got going on, you know, I've been paying attention for a while.

00:27:33.548 --> 00:27:34.848
Come on, catch up, mustard.

00:27:34.848 --> 00:27:42.759
Um, so we got objectives and organize as your first two minutes, we'll finish out the five pillars.

00:27:42.798 --> 00:27:43.239
Yeah.

00:27:43.239 --> 00:27:43.919
Yeah.

00:27:43.919 --> 00:27:47.118
The other ones are to, to measure performance.

00:27:48.983 --> 00:27:54.854
So once you've established where you're going and you're putting the pieces together, how do you know if it's working or not?

00:27:55.703 --> 00:28:01.858
And this is a tough one because, uh, The tendency is to grab the easy metrics.

00:28:02.348 --> 00:28:03.739
It is a rocket blow up or not?

00:28:04.409 --> 00:28:04.778
Yeah.

00:28:04.989 --> 00:28:12.209
Those big ones, but also those KPIs though, that, that everyone latches onto that if it's measurable, they grab onto it.

00:28:12.209 --> 00:28:13.449
So utilization, right?

00:28:13.449 --> 00:28:14.328
I was thinking scorecard.

00:28:14.528 --> 00:28:14.808
Yeah.

00:28:14.818 --> 00:28:16.348
You know, instead of, but same thing, right?

00:28:16.348 --> 00:28:16.689
Yeah.

00:28:16.949 --> 00:28:24.038
And what I've learned through psychology and just the practice of working in businesses is getting comfortable with the, the qualitative.

00:28:25.028 --> 00:28:29.778
You know, it's not just whether they deliver the product, it's how they do the work.

00:28:30.078 --> 00:28:31.499
So behavioral feedback.

00:28:31.824 --> 00:28:37.693
Is almost more important than any sort of, um, measurable metric of utilization.

00:28:37.693 --> 00:28:40.314
Hey, did you have 40 billable hours this week or 38?

00:28:40.324 --> 00:28:41.324
Right, right.

00:28:41.743 --> 00:28:43.394
Well, and what does that have to do with it?

00:28:43.394 --> 00:28:45.903
Yeah, it got us, got us to be so interesting.

00:28:46.084 --> 00:28:53.933
I don't really, I've known some engineering firms, owners and things, but I haven't gotten into the work as much as like architects.

00:28:54.134 --> 00:28:55.824
I've got to know architects a little bit better.

00:28:55.824 --> 00:28:57.584
And so with architecture.

00:28:58.138 --> 00:29:06.949
Like you can see the lines and stuff like that a little bit more and to some extent it's at least a little easier to measure the outputs than engineers.

00:29:07.439 --> 00:29:10.338
Yeah, it's maybe it gets really hard to measure outputs.

00:29:10.338 --> 00:29:13.398
And so the things they focus on are billable, right?

00:29:13.548 --> 00:29:13.818
Yeah.

00:29:13.959 --> 00:29:16.509
And most engineers don't have any control over that.

00:29:16.528 --> 00:29:17.019
Right?

00:29:17.558 --> 00:29:18.419
The manager does.

00:29:18.439 --> 00:29:18.838
Right.

00:29:18.888 --> 00:29:26.433
And so as a customer that's paying has no idea what Value this person's billable rate is that they're paying for.

00:29:26.443 --> 00:29:26.763
Yeah.

00:29:26.804 --> 00:29:28.003
That's billable rate.

00:29:28.003 --> 00:29:32.263
Utilization rate is, is my least favorite metric, but it's prevalent.

00:29:32.273 --> 00:29:33.683
That's, that's the industry standard.

00:29:33.683 --> 00:29:33.884
Right.

00:29:33.884 --> 00:29:34.153
Right.

00:29:34.223 --> 00:29:40.413
Um, but I say that that's more of a reflection of the manager and that's data the manager needs, but the individual.

00:29:40.808 --> 00:29:42.999
engineer can't do anything about it.

00:29:43.509 --> 00:29:58.798
Well, and to a certain extent, the manager has to be at least a little bit sensing, like, I don't know, the metaphor that comes to mind for me is like a flat rate auto mechanic and there's some auto mechanics that have been doing it for 15 years and they can literally do.

00:29:59.959 --> 00:30:05.199
All their work in half or maybe even 40 percent of the time that the flat rate allows them to bill for it.

00:30:05.689 --> 00:30:10.449
So they make 180, 000 a year working their asses off, but good for them.

00:30:11.219 --> 00:30:16.898
Um, and I would imagine that to some extent engineering firms are a little bit like the same thing.

00:30:16.909 --> 00:30:23.429
Like if, if you know that this guy's productivity, like he might have worked 40 hours on it, but shit, that's like 90 hours worth of work.

00:30:24.169 --> 00:30:26.108
And so we're going to just charge a higher rate.

00:30:26.144 --> 00:30:30.344
for him on this, and he's going to work his way up at least as far as we bill him.

00:30:30.894 --> 00:30:32.594
And it rewards the wrong behaviors.

00:30:32.683 --> 00:30:33.153
Right.

00:30:33.163 --> 00:30:36.144
It rewards spending more time on client's work.

00:30:36.153 --> 00:30:37.794
Well, it's like becoming a government contractor.

00:30:37.794 --> 00:30:38.834
You get cost plus.

00:30:38.834 --> 00:30:41.784
If you're Halliburton, you just get 12 percent of whatever the fuck you spend.

00:30:42.064 --> 00:30:43.104
Well, let's spend more.

00:30:44.273 --> 00:30:45.183
Yeah, exactly.

00:30:45.183 --> 00:30:47.973
And, and that there's been tons of research on that.

00:30:48.638 --> 00:30:52.519
Um, rewards, the impact of rewards on human behavior.

00:30:52.959 --> 00:30:59.538
And so I, I love bringing that into the equation here for, for the engineering firms is, all right, these are, this is what you're measuring.

00:30:59.548 --> 00:31:05.769
And if you're measuring this, this is what people are going to pay attention to, but what are the behaviors that result from you measuring that?

00:31:06.249 --> 00:31:13.019
And a great example of this going wrong is safety metrics, uh, reportable incidents.

00:31:13.663 --> 00:31:20.193
All right, so a reportable, recordable, two different safety incidents in the oil industry and construction.

00:31:20.594 --> 00:31:24.403
And you say, all right, our target is zero recordable safety incidents.

00:31:24.903 --> 00:31:30.159
What they found is if you establish a metric like that, That we don't want there to be any recordable incidents.

00:31:30.278 --> 00:31:31.989
What you find is Well, then we're not going to record any of them.

00:31:31.999 --> 00:31:33.538
We're not hide them all.

00:31:33.568 --> 00:31:33.828
Yes.

00:31:34.179 --> 00:31:39.259
It doesn't actually change the safety performance, it changes the reporting of safety performance.

00:31:39.298 --> 00:31:39.648
Right.

00:31:39.939 --> 00:31:41.229
And they've seen this in hospitals.

00:31:41.229 --> 00:31:45.023
They've done a lot of studies of this too, about Uh, what they're measuring for nurses.

00:31:45.023 --> 00:31:49.804
Because they need to pay off all these widows and stuff with the non recordable instances.

00:31:49.824 --> 00:31:50.223
Yeah.

00:31:50.354 --> 00:31:50.903
Uh, sorry.

00:31:50.933 --> 00:31:53.713
That's probably rude, but it's, I've been watching Landman recently.

00:31:54.094 --> 00:31:54.253
So.

00:31:54.253 --> 00:31:54.894
I haven't seen that yet.

00:31:54.963 --> 00:31:56.354
Oh yeah, you should probably.

00:31:56.354 --> 00:31:57.544
It's uh, it's interesting.

00:31:57.594 --> 00:31:57.913
Yeah.

00:31:58.324 --> 00:32:05.913
Um, and so the, there's a famous article, it was, I think it's titled, Rewarding for A but Expecting B.

00:32:06.013 --> 00:32:11.673
And so we are rewarding for not reporting safety incidences.

00:32:12.544 --> 00:32:15.104
But we are expecting there to not be safety incidents.

00:32:17.693 --> 00:32:28.854
And so what, what I've seen a lot of companies do well, and a lot of the, the large, uh, oil and gas corporations I worked for, they did this really well is the safety culture and the, the encouragement through.

00:32:29.124 --> 00:32:39.624
Uh, find problems before they became issues, reporting near misses, incentivizing people to go out to the site, walk it, find things that need to be fixed, and fix it before it's an issue.

00:32:39.963 --> 00:32:47.023
Because not only is a safety incident bad for the individual and everyone involved, It's extremely costly.

00:32:47.213 --> 00:32:51.534
You shut down an entire facility for days to investigate or weeks or longer.

00:32:51.584 --> 00:33:02.163
And when you have thousands of people on a construction site, and one safety incident shuts it down, um, there's the incentive to go find things before they happen.

00:33:02.564 --> 00:33:23.229
And so I was working in South Korea in a shipyard, and We were building three offshore platforms that were going to be shipped over to Qatar and they were gas processing and every day, uh, engineers would go out and walk the construction yard looking for little things like, Oh, this, this electrical cord wasn't wrapped up.

00:33:23.729 --> 00:33:27.778
I mean, if someone trips on that, uh, there's an incident, we shut down production.

00:33:27.788 --> 00:33:28.759
We shut down operation.

00:33:29.243 --> 00:33:34.013
So every day we're going out there and we were required to fill out three things, three observations.

00:33:35.013 --> 00:33:39.733
And what they did well was there was no punishment tied to safety concerns.

00:33:39.773 --> 00:33:42.114
Right, the person that didn't roll up the cord properly.

00:33:42.114 --> 00:33:42.763
Exactly.

00:33:42.794 --> 00:33:43.874
Yeah, you just fix it.

00:33:44.054 --> 00:33:44.263
Yeah.

00:33:44.263 --> 00:33:44.653
Yeah.

00:33:44.814 --> 00:33:45.314
Interesting.

00:33:45.324 --> 00:33:45.574
Yeah.

00:33:46.314 --> 00:33:50.314
Okay, so that was number three.

00:33:50.364 --> 00:33:51.834
Measuring, measuring performance.

00:33:52.753 --> 00:33:56.263
So we've got objectives, organize, and measure.

00:33:56.284 --> 00:33:57.773
And what's, uh, what's number four?

00:33:57.854 --> 00:33:58.213
Yeah.

00:33:58.294 --> 00:33:59.453
Motivate action.

00:33:59.834 --> 00:34:00.624
Motivate action.

00:34:00.624 --> 00:34:01.864
Motivate action.

00:34:01.903 --> 00:34:05.723
And it used to be, I used to be thinking about this of, oh, you need to motivate people.

00:34:05.723 --> 00:34:08.864
But I heard a really good analogy of how motivation works.

00:34:09.574 --> 00:34:14.643
And the story was that, uh, imagine motivation is a river flowing out of the mountains.

00:34:15.449 --> 00:34:18.728
All right, so you're up in the Poudre Valley and it's the Poudre River just flowing down.

00:34:20.498 --> 00:34:22.318
It has its source, all right?

00:34:22.509 --> 00:34:28.768
It has its source, motivation is coming in from all over, it's got all the power it needs, but things fall in over time.

00:34:28.998 --> 00:34:30.168
Things start to damn it up.

00:34:30.318 --> 00:34:37.978
The course gets redirected, trees are falling in, boulders are falling down, and so motivation gets constrained.

00:34:38.809 --> 00:34:39.608
Just over time.

00:34:39.809 --> 00:34:43.108
And I see this, I, this was my own experience working in corporations.

00:34:43.568 --> 00:34:46.389
Uh, this is, I know a lot of people's experience working in corporations.

00:34:46.389 --> 00:34:47.568
They're super excited.

00:34:47.628 --> 00:34:53.028
I haven't known anyone who got into engineering who is not excited to solve problems and work on big projects.

00:34:53.329 --> 00:34:56.798
They got into the work because they loved it and they were motivated to do it.

00:34:56.809 --> 00:35:01.528
They were motivated to study something very difficult, put in the years to do it.

00:35:02.034 --> 00:35:05.583
Get a hard job and put in the hours and the years to do that too.

00:35:05.853 --> 00:35:08.534
But over time, your motivation gets damned up.

00:35:09.353 --> 00:35:10.643
You have a bad boss.

00:35:10.693 --> 00:35:11.753
You have a bad client.

00:35:12.094 --> 00:35:13.943
Um, life changes.

00:35:14.003 --> 00:35:17.563
Yeah, projects you worked on for hundreds of hours got cancelled.

00:35:17.974 --> 00:35:22.423
Yeah, one of my early projects, I was working from 7 in the morning to 11 at night.

00:35:22.833 --> 00:35:32.733
Um, I should have watched the consultants who were working on the project and they clocked out at five o'clock because they knew something I didn't and that that was that the project was going to get shelved and it did.

00:35:33.184 --> 00:35:38.594
Um, but I was, you know, spending so much time away from home, so motivated to do good work.

00:35:39.264 --> 00:35:41.893
And then my motivation just fell apart.

00:35:42.313 --> 00:35:42.923
Shriveled up.

00:35:43.224 --> 00:35:43.784
Yeah, for sure.

00:35:43.963 --> 00:35:49.963
And so for a manager, this motivate action is to look for what is getting in the way.

00:35:50.313 --> 00:35:51.653
Of someone's motivation.

00:35:52.304 --> 00:35:56.574
I go in assuming that you as a manager and your team want to do good work.

00:35:57.324 --> 00:36:01.023
I haven't met anyone who deliberately got into management because they wanted to be a bad boss.

00:36:01.474 --> 00:36:01.713
Right.

00:36:01.713 --> 00:36:02.673
They kind of fall into it.

00:36:02.673 --> 00:36:03.773
They lose their motivation.

00:36:04.244 --> 00:36:16.653
And so if you're wanting to motivate action of your people, um, I take away all the carrots, I take away all those rewards, like gift cards and some bonus structure that they have no control over.

00:36:16.903 --> 00:36:19.114
Like that is not how you motivate action.

00:36:19.579 --> 00:36:25.228
If you want to motivate people, understand what, what excites them and remove barriers for them.

00:36:25.958 --> 00:36:28.449
And so as a manager, you're asking them, Hey, what are you working on?

00:36:28.619 --> 00:36:29.878
What are you excited about working on?

00:36:30.068 --> 00:36:31.228
And they say, here's what I'm working on.

00:36:31.228 --> 00:36:32.539
Here's what I want to accomplish.

00:36:32.778 --> 00:36:34.748
And then you start asking, okay, what's getting in your way.

00:36:34.789 --> 00:36:35.188
Yeah.

00:36:35.278 --> 00:36:41.289
And they're going to tell you, they're going to say, well, you're asking me to fill out time sheets that take three hours every Friday.

00:36:41.358 --> 00:36:42.309
That's getting in my way.

00:36:42.949 --> 00:36:43.119
All right.

00:36:43.159 --> 00:36:46.389
So now as a manager, you have a job to do, and that's to make that process simpler.

00:36:46.998 --> 00:36:47.159
Right.

00:36:47.179 --> 00:36:48.248
Remove the friction.

00:36:48.864 --> 00:37:00.833
And so this is where the manager gets to put back on their engineering hat and figure out, all right, where is the friction in this process that I can now enable people to do the work that they, that we hired them to do?

00:37:00.914 --> 00:37:07.634
You know, I've had a manager tell me in the past, my job is mostly to, to just stay in contact with my people and remove obstacles.

00:37:07.844 --> 00:37:08.193
Yeah.

00:37:08.244 --> 00:37:11.264
But that's a lot the same as motivate action, although it's, uh.

00:37:12.309 --> 00:37:13.188
more positive language.

00:37:13.539 --> 00:37:13.829
Yeah.

00:37:14.148 --> 00:37:19.489
Um, I'm, I'm a big fan of positive psychology, which is you identify a positive future state you want to get to.

00:37:19.489 --> 00:37:23.518
And you work towards that versus looking at the past and all the mistakes you've made.

00:37:24.099 --> 00:37:30.048
And so if we're giving feedback to people, I like to flip the script and say, give them performance feed forward.

00:37:30.248 --> 00:37:34.329
Like what would you want them to do next time versus the mistake they made in the past?

00:37:34.329 --> 00:37:35.369
Yeah.

00:37:35.369 --> 00:37:37.648
Um, and number five, develop people.

00:37:38.458 --> 00:37:50.023
Uh, you have, People who are still growing, still learning, who are, uh, motivated by a sense of mastery, uh, that are motivated to pro pro progress in their career.

00:37:50.523 --> 00:37:56.483
So, understand what, individually, the people that report to you want to grow in, and give them opportunities to do that.

00:37:56.923 --> 00:38:00.054
Uh, in a large corporation, you're gonna have the resources available to you.

00:38:00.054 --> 00:38:00.893
That's what I was gonna say, yeah.

00:38:00.893 --> 00:38:02.344
And you're gonna have some of this mapped out.

00:38:02.809 --> 00:38:08.648
Um, when I started my career at Exxon, uh, we had a three year early career milestone.

00:38:08.748 --> 00:38:12.858
Like this was an 11 by 17 sheet of here's all the trainings you need to go to.

00:38:13.068 --> 00:38:15.599
You're going to need to have these practical experiences.

00:38:15.608 --> 00:38:17.438
You need to be on these types of assignments.

00:38:17.958 --> 00:38:25.929
And so the manager, the supervisor's job was to make sure I was progressing on those milestones and the greatest motivator is showing progress.

00:38:25.929 --> 00:38:32.018
And so that's one thing that large companies do well is they say, here's what you need to work on in your early career development.

00:38:32.509 --> 00:38:34.963
And here's the resources, resources to do it.

00:38:35.264 --> 00:38:40.523
Exxon spent more on my development in the first three years of my career than they paid me directly.

00:38:40.574 --> 00:38:41.043
Wow.

00:38:41.063 --> 00:38:41.373
Right.

00:38:41.434 --> 00:38:41.813
Yeah.

00:38:41.884 --> 00:38:47.503
And, and the supervisor's performance was measured on how well they were progressing all of the new engineers that reported to them.

00:38:47.543 --> 00:39:01.403
What a fascinating, sorry, I've just, I spent so much time in small business where they're mostly making it up as they go, you know, and, and like part of my development plan for Alma is, you know, if you find something you want to learn about this year and it costs.

00:39:01.648 --> 00:39:04.318
It's a few hundred up to a couple thousand dollars.

00:39:04.358 --> 00:39:05.389
We could probably buy it for you.

00:39:05.389 --> 00:39:15.239
Well, you know, that's not very specific, but we don't, you know, we're just figuring out what we do in some ways, you know, method is far more effective than having a prescribed development plan.

00:39:15.309 --> 00:39:15.648
Right.

00:39:15.659 --> 00:39:22.298
It's saying, all right, if you see something that you want to learn that'll help you be better here, happy to spend the money on it.

00:39:22.298 --> 00:39:22.528
Right.

00:39:22.829 --> 00:39:23.719
And so that's what small companies do.

00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:30.409
But that works for a small, but if you're, if you're excellent, you got a thousand and Should have 1, 000 first year people, probably.

00:39:30.418 --> 00:39:31.298
Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:39:31.349 --> 00:39:31.719
You know.

00:39:31.748 --> 00:39:37.539
I left right before I moved to, right before they moved to the campus, and the new campus in Houston houses 30, 000 people.

00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:37.969
Right.

00:39:38.878 --> 00:39:41.309
Yeah, so there's always 1, people.

00:39:41.309 --> 00:39:42.108
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:51.148
In a small company, what this looks like, uh, to develop your people, because you, you may not have the, the org, the roles on the org chart to progress people to.

00:39:51.188 --> 00:39:53.219
You don't have supervisor one, two, three.

00:39:53.699 --> 00:39:54.179
Um.

00:39:54.543 --> 00:40:01.373
You, you promote people to positions of leadership and then they kind of stay there for a few years because there's no other roles in the organization.

00:40:01.744 --> 00:40:03.434
So development can look very different.

00:40:04.264 --> 00:40:07.443
But in a small company, the nice thing is you get to adapt it to the individual.

00:40:07.773 --> 00:40:09.583
And that's what's missing in large corporations.

00:40:09.844 --> 00:40:12.483
Is you're just treating everyone like a statistic.

00:40:12.974 --> 00:40:14.043
Um, because you have to.

00:40:14.043 --> 00:40:15.684
Because there's a thousand of them.

00:40:16.014 --> 00:40:16.963
Versus one person.

00:40:17.063 --> 00:40:21.713
And you say, alright, um, you're spending a lot more time customer focused.

00:40:22.054 --> 00:40:25.034
You're spending a lot more time in front of our customers than you have in the past.

00:40:25.054 --> 00:40:31.704
In the past, you've been behind the computer working on CAD designs, but now you're going to job sites, you're going to clients offices.

00:40:32.873 --> 00:40:34.483
What would, what would help you with that?

00:40:35.023 --> 00:40:39.313
And that's when they can start to say, you know what, I really get stressed out.

00:40:39.748 --> 00:40:42.778
When I have to present in front of these, these clients.

00:40:43.079 --> 00:40:43.108
Mm.

00:40:43.528 --> 00:40:43.949
Okay.

00:40:44.248 --> 00:40:46.559
And, and so the manager can again, be a connector Yeah.

00:40:46.708 --> 00:40:51.239
Of resources maybe to, to toast masters or getting a coach.

00:40:51.454 --> 00:40:51.673
Yep.

00:40:51.719 --> 00:40:51.809
Yep.

00:40:51.958 --> 00:40:53.009
Sending them to a training.

00:40:53.009 --> 00:40:58.079
The, the research shows that with adult development, the most effective method is self-directed.

00:40:58.079 --> 00:40:58.139
Hmm.

00:40:59.248 --> 00:41:01.318
If you want to learn it, say, choose and want to.

00:41:01.378 --> 00:41:01.559
Yeah.

00:41:01.588 --> 00:41:01.798
Yep.

00:41:01.978 --> 00:41:05.429
If you choose and want to, it will stick Right.

00:41:05.429 --> 00:41:06.539
You'll get something out of it.

00:41:06.543 --> 00:41:06.833
Yeah.

00:41:06.838 --> 00:41:07.168
Yeah.

00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:08.789
The second most effective is coaching.

00:41:09.123 --> 00:41:09.503
Sure.

00:41:09.664 --> 00:41:14.583
And then far down the list is computer based training, lecture series, things like that.

00:41:15.224 --> 00:41:15.523
Sure.

00:41:15.554 --> 00:41:19.023
Mandated trainings, uh, doesn't stick.

00:41:19.023 --> 00:41:19.943
It doesn't change behavior.

00:41:19.954 --> 00:41:20.313
Yeah.

00:41:20.393 --> 00:41:20.704
Yeah.

00:41:20.884 --> 00:41:37.244
And so understanding, uh, in, in these conversations with your direct reports as a manager, what it is they want to get better at, whether it's pursuing mastery in their technical field, whether they want to try, have an opportunity to lead people, or whether they want to get better at public speaking.

00:41:37.693 --> 00:41:39.653
And then you just make the resources available.

00:41:39.844 --> 00:41:44.304
And this is another pet peeve of mine is how little is dedicated to development.

00:41:44.313 --> 00:41:47.313
Like you pointed out, engineers salaries are 100 grand plus.

00:41:47.483 --> 00:41:48.143
Right.

00:41:48.344 --> 00:41:50.244
You're already spending a ton on these people.

00:41:50.603 --> 00:42:02.153
And if they quit, you can expect to spend twice as much as their salary in lost opportunity, lost performance, all while you wait two times an individual's salary to rehire that position.

00:42:03.623 --> 00:42:05.554
So it's really expensive to lose an engineer.

00:42:06.034 --> 00:42:09.954
It also, uh, they have the longest cycle time for finding a hire.

00:42:10.313 --> 00:42:14.063
It can take 50 days before you replace an engineer.

00:42:14.164 --> 00:42:14.514
Right.

00:42:14.514 --> 00:42:16.353
And so think about all the performance.

00:42:16.414 --> 00:42:19.204
All the projects that are behind, everybody's waiting on your thing.

00:42:19.474 --> 00:42:22.934
Not to mention, uh, all the people who are now carrying an extra load.

00:42:23.353 --> 00:42:24.293
Getting stressed out.

00:42:24.293 --> 00:42:25.724
Getting annoyed, getting closer to quitting.

00:42:25.733 --> 00:42:33.083
Seeing that their buddy, uh, left and got a raise of 20 percent and now they're looking for an exit.

00:42:33.244 --> 00:42:33.804
Right.

00:42:34.253 --> 00:42:35.603
So I see this all the time.

00:42:35.603 --> 00:42:37.434
When, when one high performer leaves.

00:42:37.813 --> 00:42:39.494
Multiple follow, right?

00:42:39.494 --> 00:42:43.684
It's kind of, it provides a, um, Permission.

00:42:43.844 --> 00:42:45.804
It's like, Oh, it turns out there's something else out there.

00:42:45.994 --> 00:42:46.873
Yeah, for sure.

00:42:47.423 --> 00:42:50.184
And so you have to set aside budget for this.

00:42:50.184 --> 00:42:57.753
And if you're not spending five to 10 percent of a person's annual salary on development, they're going to be looking for other positions.

00:42:58.324 --> 00:43:00.043
Because they don't feel like they're being invested in.

00:43:00.083 --> 00:43:00.563
Yeah, yeah.

00:43:01.293 --> 00:43:04.264
I was just reflecting, thinking about, we've been using money.

00:43:04.434 --> 00:43:06.643
com here at Loco for Three years or something.

00:43:06.643 --> 00:43:14.664
I'm sure you're at least a little bit familiar and, uh, all just got selected as an ambassador, a Monday ambassador, which is, I think they got.

00:43:15.474 --> 00:43:27.384
One of 50 out of 500 plus applications and it's kind of like their user group, almost kind of a little bit of a form where they can give ideas and test new betas and stuff like that.

00:43:27.773 --> 00:43:31.103
And I don't think she, I don't think she gets paid, but I don't think she has to pay anything.

00:43:31.813 --> 00:43:33.423
She sure will get developed from it.

00:43:33.583 --> 00:43:34.284
Absolutely.

00:43:34.284 --> 00:43:39.364
And, and you get surprised with what people want to learn about if you just start talking to them about what they want to learn.

00:43:39.403 --> 00:43:40.943
It's not always tied to their job.

00:43:41.583 --> 00:43:46.143
And, and so as a manager you may say, well that's not relevant to the work that we need you to do.

00:43:46.224 --> 00:43:48.873
So, we're not going to, you can pursue that on your own.

00:43:49.423 --> 00:43:50.414
Others it might be.

00:43:50.704 --> 00:43:53.443
A very loose connection, but can be very valuable.

00:43:53.443 --> 00:44:10.313
I mean, honestly, if I had a, um, if I had a budget for a bigger company and, uh, if I had a, uh, employee that wanted to take violin lessons, it'd be like, yeah, you can spend your, I mean, to some extent, you know, not your whole thing probably, but like, cause I think just learning is.

00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:11.418
healthy.

00:44:11.858 --> 00:44:12.168
Yeah.

00:44:12.179 --> 00:44:22.228
For people, even if you're not learning something, you know, engineers may be a little different equation and probably because you can actually charge more revenue for them and stuff when they can measure that.

00:44:22.228 --> 00:44:29.119
But just being a learning personality type for a longer period of time is healthy for everybody.

00:44:29.429 --> 00:44:29.778
It is.

00:44:29.809 --> 00:44:33.329
And this has come up in working with a client, a small company.

00:44:33.349 --> 00:44:38.548
They didn't have the budget for it, but here's an engineer who'd worked there for seven years or so.

00:44:38.969 --> 00:44:44.849
Um, was really interested in getting deeper into cybersecurity, had nothing to do with his job.

00:44:45.608 --> 00:44:48.429
And so he just floated the idea to his manager.

00:44:48.518 --> 00:44:50.349
Hey, is this something the company would support?

00:44:51.409 --> 00:44:55.898
And the manager's initial reaction was, heck no, right?

00:44:56.179 --> 00:44:58.179
This, I'm not paying 200 for this.

00:44:58.179 --> 00:44:58.889
Do your job.

00:44:58.929 --> 00:44:59.438
Uh huh.

00:44:59.548 --> 00:44:59.818
Yeah.

00:45:00.349 --> 00:45:05.789
And, but then in reflection through coaching, we just started questioning that.

00:45:06.244 --> 00:45:14.103
You know, questioning the assumptions he had, the questioning the concern that if he's pursuing training in something different than his job, that means he wants a different job.

00:45:14.114 --> 00:45:15.974
He's gonna get the training from us and then quit.

00:45:16.418 --> 00:45:16.739
Right.

00:45:16.739 --> 00:45:17.009
Right.

00:45:17.009 --> 00:45:17.719
Take it somewhere else.

00:45:17.719 --> 00:45:17.998
Yeah.

00:45:18.048 --> 00:45:20.539
That's what a lot of leaders are hesitant to invest in.

00:45:20.548 --> 00:45:20.909
Sure.

00:45:20.958 --> 00:45:21.838
Leadership development.

00:45:21.849 --> 00:45:23.329
Cause they see it walk out the door.

00:45:23.389 --> 00:45:23.719
Yeah.

00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:24.898
And it always will.

00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:26.099
It, it will.

00:45:26.099 --> 00:45:27.648
Under whose terms?

00:45:27.648 --> 00:45:38.298
There must be a, uh, you must know that quote or at least have read that book along the way that the CFO says, uh, what if we invest all this money in training for our employees and they leave?

00:45:38.329 --> 00:45:38.789
And then the.

00:45:38.969 --> 00:45:40.978
CEO says, well, but what if we don't?

00:45:40.978 --> 00:45:41.668
And they stay.

00:45:41.668 --> 00:45:42.998
Yeah.

00:45:42.998 --> 00:45:44.329
Yep.

00:45:44.329 --> 00:45:44.349
Yeah.

00:45:44.358 --> 00:45:46.958
That's been an argument that I've, I've made many times.

00:45:46.998 --> 00:46:04.768
But I guess, honestly, like I was, uh, I was came through a banker, a banker training program, a credit and management training program that community first national bank hired six, uh, smart young people every year for, and then sent them out into the locations and stuff.

00:46:04.798 --> 00:46:13.378
And Three years in, I got poached by Bank of Colorado because they were just a lot better.

00:46:13.378 --> 00:46:15.179
They had a lot more market share.

00:46:15.208 --> 00:46:18.668
They were actually just a stronger organization to work for.

00:46:18.668 --> 00:46:21.239
They had more consistency, better customers.

00:46:21.878 --> 00:46:30.369
And so, in my particular case, Community First did invest, you know, probably, even back then, like 50 grand in me.

00:46:30.469 --> 00:46:30.739
Yeah.

00:46:31.059 --> 00:46:34.893
And then I parlayed that into a 8, 000 a year raise.

00:46:35.284 --> 00:46:37.474
And that was my experience in my first job too, right?

00:46:37.503 --> 00:46:40.514
They spent so much training me, and I left.

00:46:40.554 --> 00:46:44.764
Well, and so maybe they shouldn't train so early as part of what you're saying, or not train so much so early.

00:46:45.353 --> 00:46:46.844
But keep it going instead.

00:46:46.853 --> 00:46:49.014
Yeah, I don't know what the right answer is.

00:46:51.103 --> 00:46:55.733
You know, focusing on developing people because that's the manager's responsibility.

00:46:56.043 --> 00:46:59.594
You're not trying to get everyone who's working for you to stay there for 30 years.

00:46:59.603 --> 00:47:00.204
Right, right.

00:47:00.523 --> 00:47:05.903
And so sometimes just being honest with, you know, if, if we spend this much and they're here for five years.

00:47:06.088 --> 00:47:07.358
It'll still be good for the business.

00:47:07.378 --> 00:47:12.048
And that's, uh, you know, when I was just reflecting on Alma, like it wouldn't shock me to see her go to work for monday.

00:47:12.259 --> 00:47:12.969
com in the future.

00:47:13.099 --> 00:47:13.458
Yeah.

00:47:13.548 --> 00:47:13.809
Right.

00:47:13.809 --> 00:47:16.969
And if she can do that and get a good job out of it, you know.

00:47:17.329 --> 00:47:17.608
Right.

00:47:17.969 --> 00:47:25.039
I would celebrate, you know, it's like a loser, but it would also be pretty neat for her to have found this niche that she's really interested in that keenly.

00:47:25.059 --> 00:47:32.909
What's really cool is the, the knock on effects of taking good care of your people while they're there, of developing people, even if they don't stay.

00:47:33.338 --> 00:47:40.489
is if they leave on good terms, they're going to tell their friends and their family that, yeah, you want to get new employees that are awesome.

00:47:40.498 --> 00:47:43.358
This was a great place for me to, to kick off my career.

00:47:43.449 --> 00:47:47.849
It wasn't where I needed to be for 20 years, but man, the two years I was there were great.

00:47:48.298 --> 00:47:54.338
And having the manager have the perspective of, all right, if they're here for two years and we're paying them this, they're producing this.

00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:57.818
It's that's a, that's a fair business proposition.

00:47:58.119 --> 00:47:59.909
Like the objective is not retention.

00:48:00.289 --> 00:48:01.608
It's for a time.

00:48:01.768 --> 00:48:02.018
Hmm.

00:48:02.768 --> 00:48:03.139
Interesting.

00:48:03.219 --> 00:48:03.418
Yeah.

00:48:03.748 --> 00:48:07.278
Um, so what do you want to change from here?

00:48:07.289 --> 00:48:11.739
Are you like, do you like feel like you kind of navigated a bit and found a sweet spot?

00:48:12.048 --> 00:48:19.139
Or Yeah, it's taken me a while and this is part of the uh, evolution of RevZero is it's taken me a while to find my niche.

00:48:19.378 --> 00:48:19.619
Yeah.

00:48:19.789 --> 00:48:25.088
It's taken me a while to figure out exactly, um, where I'm best, where I add the most value.

00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:28.978
I've said yes to a lot of the wrong work as so many entrepreneurs do.

00:48:29.059 --> 00:48:29.239
Yeah.

00:48:29.398 --> 00:48:32.599
Uh, you need revenue early on so you say yes to every opportunity.

00:48:32.958 --> 00:48:38.309
I've learned to say no and that has really opened up, um, the right opportunities.

00:48:39.213 --> 00:48:46.793
And so coaching, you know, it's not a necessarily scalable business, but RevZero is my foundation.

00:48:46.793 --> 00:48:52.414
It's where I find that I do the best work and it's enabling good people to do good work in their business.

00:48:52.773 --> 00:48:57.914
And it's been really cool this January to see people I've coached over the past three years all get these promotions.

00:48:58.293 --> 00:49:00.204
And they're all celebrating these promotions on LinkedIn.

00:49:00.204 --> 00:49:01.833
And I'm just like, yeah, that's awesome.

00:49:01.833 --> 00:49:03.784
Cause we're getting good people.

00:49:04.168 --> 00:49:07.048
In, in, in the right positions at good companies.

00:49:07.048 --> 00:49:07.259
Yeah.

00:49:07.438 --> 00:49:07.798
Right.

00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:10.018
And so I just love getting to see that.

00:49:10.018 --> 00:49:14.548
And I, I never got that level of satisfaction outta my work as an engineer.

00:49:14.668 --> 00:49:14.938
Yeah.

00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:21.088
Um, even as a trainer, you're kind of disconnected from what you're educating people and what they do with it.

00:49:21.389 --> 00:49:28.438
As a coach, I get to, to see the solu, see them come up with solutions, see them, try it, see them fail, see them try again.

00:49:28.648 --> 00:49:32.188
One of my coaches adopted the mantra of, I'm gonna try again, slightly different.

00:49:32.764 --> 00:49:38.443
And I love that because he just kept trying something new, something different, same thing, a little bit differently.

00:49:38.503 --> 00:49:41.974
And now he's VP of delivery for this company.

00:49:42.483 --> 00:49:50.534
And so where I go from here with RevZero is just making it, um, making it easier for me to do more of that.

00:49:51.643 --> 00:50:01.664
I don't need to increase my, my reach to, to hundreds of people, um, having 10 executives I'm working with, but I always want to keep some open for new managers.

00:50:01.753 --> 00:50:02.184
Sure.

00:50:02.244 --> 00:50:08.193
I really enjoy working with first time managers as they're making that transition from engineer to manager.

00:50:08.563 --> 00:50:11.063
So I'm having a lot of fun with this work right now.

00:50:11.063 --> 00:50:12.653
It's very rewarding.

00:50:13.074 --> 00:50:16.414
Um, and what's cool is I'm getting to work across a lot of different industries.

00:50:16.514 --> 00:50:16.833
Yeah.

00:50:17.003 --> 00:50:17.954
Um, I think.

00:50:18.963 --> 00:50:22.963
you know, where I go from here, we're doing some product like, um, program development.

00:50:23.023 --> 00:50:23.384
Okay.

00:50:23.494 --> 00:50:29.784
That's because I was wondering, just make it easier for you to not have to go in a full custom with each client.

00:50:29.793 --> 00:50:29.983
Yup.

00:50:29.983 --> 00:50:31.643
Less customization.

00:50:31.684 --> 00:50:40.884
There's still custom solutions, but taking a lot of the education out of it and instead having a program or having this accessible somewhere else, because what did I say?

00:50:40.884 --> 00:50:43.384
The most effective way of development was it's self directed.

00:50:43.414 --> 00:50:43.884
Right.

00:50:43.884 --> 00:50:43.934
Right.

00:50:43.934 --> 00:50:44.153
Right.

00:50:44.153 --> 00:50:44.634
And so if.

00:50:44.923 --> 00:50:53.034
If my clients want to dive deeper into motivation, instead of them having to surf blogs full of ads, here's the RevZero platform.

00:50:53.518 --> 00:50:56.148
A client of mine, you're on RevZero online.

00:50:56.148 --> 00:51:01.469
You have access to my library of resources on motivation, not just the pop culture business.

00:51:01.518 --> 00:51:01.969
Right, right.

00:51:01.978 --> 00:51:08.659
Here's, here's, here's five links that I've found to be useful and on brand and on what I've seen, you know, whatever.

00:51:08.679 --> 00:51:09.128
Yeah.

00:51:09.429 --> 00:51:14.409
And, and as we, we grow, you know, one of the mantras for myself early on was knowledge is free.

00:51:14.619 --> 00:51:17.389
You can learn whatever you want on your own just by Googling it.

00:51:17.438 --> 00:51:17.818
Sure.

00:51:18.248 --> 00:51:21.389
Um, you have to wade through a lot of crap to get, to get to the good stuff.

00:51:22.043 --> 00:51:24.534
And so in RevZero, we're trying to do the same thing.

00:51:24.534 --> 00:51:25.284
Knowledge is free.

00:51:25.403 --> 00:51:35.753
Like, I'm trying to take what I'm learning in psychology, take what I'm learning in engineering, and project management, and take what I'm learning from other companies, and making it accessible to my other clients.

00:51:35.844 --> 00:51:38.614
Like, this, my client tried this over here.

00:51:38.634 --> 00:51:41.103
Um, it might work for you, get a shot.

00:51:41.373 --> 00:51:44.923
So making that knowledge free and then allowing me to really focus on coaching.

00:51:45.153 --> 00:51:45.434
Cool.

00:51:45.594 --> 00:51:45.784
Yeah.

00:51:45.844 --> 00:51:48.123
You love that relationship element of it.

00:51:48.123 --> 00:51:48.733
Yeah, I do.

00:51:48.733 --> 00:51:52.773
Which, if you had told me that is what I would do, I'd say no way.

00:51:52.813 --> 00:51:53.333
Right.

00:51:53.373 --> 00:51:54.594
But the one on one coaching.

00:51:54.623 --> 00:51:54.974
Love it.

00:51:55.143 --> 00:51:55.474
Huh.

00:51:55.563 --> 00:51:56.134
That's really neat.

00:51:56.224 --> 00:52:00.523
How do you measure your success, like outside of the big promotions and stuff like that?

00:52:00.523 --> 00:52:11.503
Like how do you, like on a month to month or week to week basis, like Did you check in on yourself like after coaching sessions and stuff or is your clients progress, your, your progress or?

00:52:11.503 --> 00:52:11.880
Yeah.

00:52:11.880 --> 00:52:16.934
So I start most of my, not all, but most of my coaching engagements with a development plan.

00:52:17.164 --> 00:52:20.353
Like what is it they're working towards that is important to them for three months?

00:52:20.934 --> 00:52:22.324
And that's what we're going to make progress on.

00:52:22.344 --> 00:52:24.054
So I use the OKR framework there.

00:52:24.054 --> 00:52:24.943
What's their objective?

00:52:24.943 --> 00:52:25.943
What are their key results?

00:52:26.173 --> 00:52:29.523
And so I can see and also reflect for them that they're making progress.

00:52:29.523 --> 00:52:29.844
Yep.

00:52:30.134 --> 00:52:35.514
I mean, these, these people are working so hard and, and it's a lot easier to keep working hard when you see you're making some progress.

00:52:35.543 --> 00:52:36.193
Absolutely.

00:52:36.193 --> 00:52:40.353
So we start with where they want to be, what is their ideal future self, and we work towards that.

00:52:40.423 --> 00:52:44.373
So we get to see that, but I do rate myself every coaching session.

00:52:44.594 --> 00:52:47.364
Um, after every coaching session, I give myself a number.

00:52:47.664 --> 00:52:48.554
Was that an eight?

00:52:48.653 --> 00:52:49.574
Was that a six?

00:52:49.583 --> 00:52:50.224
Was that a 10?

00:52:50.704 --> 00:52:51.934
And it's totally subjective.

00:52:51.994 --> 00:52:52.253
Yeah.

00:52:52.333 --> 00:52:54.454
Those numbers are purely mine, right?

00:52:54.454 --> 00:52:58.873
I'm not putting this into a database, but I'm just asking myself, all right, that session was a 10.

00:52:59.003 --> 00:52:59.454
Why?

00:52:59.454 --> 00:52:59.483
Okay.

00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:01.568
What would I do different?

00:53:01.648 --> 00:53:02.989
Yeah, it was an eight.

00:53:03.309 --> 00:53:05.108
All right, maybe we went a little bit over.

00:53:05.429 --> 00:53:08.179
Maybe I gave advice when I should have asked a question.

00:53:08.409 --> 00:53:11.389
So I am constantly checking myself with each of these sessions.

00:53:11.943 --> 00:53:14.204
Um, maybe we covered too much, right?

00:53:14.233 --> 00:53:18.074
And, and this is what I do in coaching over and over again is just narrow the focus.

00:53:18.304 --> 00:53:20.653
All right, let's bring you, narrow your focus to this one problem.

00:53:21.103 --> 00:53:26.054
And that's, um, then the larger measures of success would be those promotions.

00:53:26.443 --> 00:53:29.793
Are people actually getting into the positions of leadership that they aspire to?

00:53:30.483 --> 00:53:31.764
Um, but that's longterm.

00:53:31.764 --> 00:53:32.833
That's kind of harder to see.

00:53:32.864 --> 00:53:35.623
And now that I've been coaching for four years, I'm starting to see that happen.

00:53:37.204 --> 00:53:40.173
Um, the other one are, are the more subjective ones.

00:53:42.094 --> 00:53:44.974
This one, uh, Is he happier than he was when he came?

00:53:45.043 --> 00:53:45.534
Yeah.

00:53:45.583 --> 00:53:46.143
I mean, right?

00:53:46.153 --> 00:53:47.224
Like, cause everybody, Absolutely.

00:53:47.284 --> 00:53:49.824
Nobody likes to not succeed at their job.

00:53:49.824 --> 00:53:53.673
And if part of your job is suddenly managing people and you're not feeling confident about it.

00:53:53.893 --> 00:53:55.204
Confidence is one.

00:53:55.233 --> 00:53:58.784
And so, it's often what they'll share with me that is the measure of success.

00:53:58.813 --> 00:54:00.684
And it's not always what we set out to work on.

00:54:00.994 --> 00:54:07.284
And this one lady I was working with, after a few weeks working together, the focus was never confidence.

00:54:08.153 --> 00:54:22.393
But she said one day that, I'm so much more confident stepping into these conversations and we didn't, like I said, we didn't talk about confidence once it was just purely narrowing her focus of what did she need to talk about either on the stage or in that conversation.

00:54:22.974 --> 00:54:27.224
And so once she knew what she needed to say and how she wanted to say it, she just did it right.

00:54:27.233 --> 00:54:30.594
So seeing that confidence grow stress is a big one.

00:54:30.623 --> 00:54:33.994
Um, I like to confidence and stress are inverse.

00:54:35.673 --> 00:54:36.284
Absolutely.

00:54:36.534 --> 00:54:36.793
Yeah.

00:54:36.793 --> 00:54:45.878
And, you know, I studied psychology so that other engineers don't have to, I want these people to stay in their jobs because they got into it for a reason.

00:54:45.878 --> 00:54:46.588
They love the work.

00:54:46.588 --> 00:54:48.759
So I want to see them continuing to do that good work.

00:54:49.168 --> 00:54:54.849
Um, some of them will go through my program and learn what it means to be a manager for the first time.

00:54:55.648 --> 00:54:58.498
And this was early on when I first started doing this.

00:54:59.099 --> 00:55:01.878
Um, he decided he didn't want to be a manager.

00:55:03.128 --> 00:55:07.469
And to me that was a, that was a success because he learned that in three months.

00:55:07.938 --> 00:55:14.929
Rather than having been in a position of management for three years and piss everyone else off along the way, right?

00:55:14.978 --> 00:55:27.998
Yeah, and so for sure you feel like once you get promoted in management that you can't step away from yeah Yeah, and if you can have that conversation within three months with your supervisor of saying, you know, thanks for the opportunity I would really love to step back into engineering.

00:55:28.009 --> 00:55:28.168
Yeah.

00:55:28.168 --> 00:55:29.849
Yeah, you're doing everyone a favor.

00:55:30.009 --> 00:56:02.239
I Volunteered for the Small Business Development Center for a long time and at one point A few years in, um, there was this person that I, I basically, I don't know if I broke their heart or not, but they were, they were trying to buy a gas station and they were trying to buy a gas station, um, from a larger operator that was trying to sell one of their losers and I was like, you know, dude, the 50 grand that you saved from your job, if I read the numbers right and read your, yeah.

00:56:02.688 --> 00:56:06.199
Frankly, ability to manage a gas station, right?

00:56:06.248 --> 00:56:06.498
Yeah.

00:56:07.458 --> 00:56:17.018
You can't live on it and it's gonna, like, you're just gonna lose your 50 grand and the government SBA loan is gonna lose 200, 000 more and, like, I can't recommend.

00:56:17.228 --> 00:56:17.579
Yeah.

00:56:17.659 --> 00:56:17.938
Yeah.

00:56:18.199 --> 00:56:19.518
And I, I felt kind of bad about that.

00:56:19.588 --> 00:56:26.768
I was talking to the, the director of the SBA at the time, or SBDC at the time, and they were like, you know, if you save somebody.

00:56:26.903 --> 00:56:36.313
50, 000 and three more years of thinking that they need to buy a gas station and maybe they should shift to somewhere else or whatever, you know, you're still helping them so much.

00:56:36.333 --> 00:56:40.954
Yeah, you're helping them get to that, that realization or that conclusion faster with less pain.

00:56:41.693 --> 00:56:53.063
Uh, so many of my other participants, they go through it and they say they're hesitant to get into management, but then they do and they learn the job and they say, Oh, now that I know what it is, I'm kind of excited for this.

00:56:53.063 --> 00:56:53.893
I'm excited for this opportunity.

00:56:54.173 --> 00:56:54.884
One of those people.

00:56:55.264 --> 00:57:01.583
She was in a corporate environment as a doer, uh, paralegal type contract review management kind of stuff.

00:57:01.614 --> 00:57:05.704
And now she manages people that do that function for this larger corporation.

00:57:06.233 --> 00:57:11.978
And like It's so much more fulfilling to her because she's a people wired person.

00:57:11.989 --> 00:57:13.188
She still knows her stuff.

00:57:13.188 --> 00:57:15.849
She can still review a good contract if she needs to.

00:57:16.568 --> 00:57:24.289
But, but managing has been for her a lot more fulfilling, you know, and And I imagine a lot of it has to do with her, her, uh, increased realm of influence.

00:57:24.509 --> 00:57:24.719
Right.

00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:24.989
Sure.

00:57:24.994 --> 00:57:25.099
Yeah.

00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:25.378
Yeah.

00:57:25.378 --> 00:57:28.423
The things that she thinks are important, the strategic ideas that she has totally.

00:57:28.528 --> 00:57:29.699
She can now put them into place.

00:57:29.699 --> 00:57:31.918
Same thing's relevant in engineering too, right?

00:57:31.918 --> 00:57:32.278
Absolutely.

00:57:32.278 --> 00:57:40.289
I mean, all of these guys and, and, and girls have, uh, ideas of technology that just aren't getting adopted simply because of the position they're in.

00:57:40.378 --> 00:57:40.708
Oh, yeah.

00:57:40.739 --> 00:57:41.039
Right.

00:57:41.188 --> 00:57:41.518
I dig it.

00:57:41.699 --> 00:57:41.938
Yeah.

00:57:42.208 --> 00:57:43.304
Well, let's, uh, is there.

00:57:44.023 --> 00:57:48.713
Other things that you'd really like to share about RevZero and that, or do you want to talk about Isolation Coffee?

00:57:48.724 --> 00:57:50.233
I could talk about RevZero all day.

00:57:50.273 --> 00:57:50.853
I'm sure you could.

00:57:51.284 --> 00:57:52.054
I'm sure you could.

00:57:52.523 --> 00:57:53.884
I'm not sure people could listen all day, though.

00:57:54.213 --> 00:57:54.333
Nope, probably not.

00:57:55.244 --> 00:57:58.284
As a coach, I don't do much talking, so this is a cool opportunity.

00:57:58.393 --> 00:58:01.164
Where did, uh, where did Isolation Coffee come into the picture?

00:58:01.164 --> 00:58:07.903
Was that Before, after, Oh, and I wanted to, I was wondering when RevZero sprouted after the psychology post grad.

00:58:08.673 --> 00:58:10.704
It all overlapped.

00:58:10.903 --> 00:58:20.414
Um, I started RevZero in 2016 and for four years is when I was really focused on helping build one engineering company.

00:58:20.434 --> 00:58:24.574
So a full time consultant and then pandemic hit 2020.

00:58:24.983 --> 00:58:31.583
And so I was already in grad school, but I was still working with this company, um, and travel.

00:58:32.804 --> 00:58:34.543
Do you talk about who this company was?

00:58:34.543 --> 00:58:35.463
Is that public?

00:58:35.463 --> 00:58:37.474
It's a small engineering firm down in West Texas, right?

00:58:37.514 --> 00:58:38.164
E and XL.

00:58:38.494 --> 00:58:38.893
Yeah.

00:58:39.014 --> 00:58:44.844
And, uh, so I, I was helping them get started and it was really a consulting period in some respects, right?

00:58:44.884 --> 00:58:45.193
Okay.

00:58:45.244 --> 00:58:45.623
Yeah.

00:58:45.623 --> 00:58:50.753
But, uh, not a very good consultant because I kept one client and never pursued the next.

00:58:50.753 --> 00:58:56.693
So it ended like it was planned to, but it ended suddenly with the pandemic.

00:58:57.043 --> 00:59:00.844
Uh, and so 2020 is, I was still in wrapping up grad school.

00:59:01.213 --> 00:59:06.193
Um, had my RevZero consulting base, trying to figure out, all right, where's the next opportunity?

00:59:06.583 --> 00:59:10.704
And then, uh, I was home roasting coffee on my own.

00:59:11.233 --> 00:59:13.923
And this is actually my second coffee company.

00:59:13.923 --> 00:59:15.054
My first one That's what I thought.

00:59:15.083 --> 00:59:16.333
There was something before then.

00:59:16.403 --> 00:59:19.914
Yeah, there was something called Agrarian Coffee, me and a buddy down in Texas.

00:59:20.014 --> 00:59:23.833
I wanted to learn how to start a business, and he wanted to learn how to roast coffee.

00:59:24.054 --> 00:59:26.634
So instead of going to get my MBA, I started a company.

00:59:26.704 --> 00:59:27.083
Perfect.

00:59:27.123 --> 00:59:30.083
Yeah, and so I did all the finances and the legal side of things.

00:59:30.489 --> 00:59:33.268
Um, but we sold that and as part of the sale, I kept.

00:59:33.818 --> 00:59:35.378
One of the, one of the small roasters.

00:59:35.469 --> 00:59:35.619
Oh.

00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:38.949
And so I would roast my own coffee in my garage for years.

00:59:39.429 --> 00:59:44.469
Um, and then in 2020, um, I just, I had more time to roast.

00:59:44.474 --> 00:59:45.398
Right, right.

00:59:45.489 --> 00:59:46.358
Everybody had more time.

00:59:46.358 --> 00:59:47.498
That's why I started this podcast.

00:59:47.949 --> 00:59:50.619
Everyone so many good things came out of 2020.

00:59:50.623 --> 00:59:50.693
True.

00:59:50.693 --> 00:59:50.974
Yeah.

00:59:52.003 --> 00:59:53.414
The QR code recovery.

00:59:54.454 --> 00:59:55.114
Resurgence.

00:59:55.853 --> 01:00:00.003
Uh, I asked some friends if I roasted extra if they'd want some coffee.

01:00:00.043 --> 01:00:04.474
They said yes, so I'd start delivering coffee just so I could hang out on the front porch.

01:00:04.574 --> 01:00:05.454
Talk with my friends.

01:00:05.974 --> 01:00:09.393
Um, and then one partnership led to the next.

01:00:09.423 --> 01:00:12.574
And I was introduced to my buddy, uh, Braden Lanz two years ago.

01:00:12.943 --> 01:00:13.773
And he had a coffee company.

01:00:13.773 --> 01:00:16.324
Oh, Braden from Matthew's house?

01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:18.708
Yeah, yeah, he did that for a bit, yeah.

01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:20.496
Yeah, he was Were you there at the same time?

01:00:20.496 --> 01:00:20.719
I know Brayden.

01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:21.108
Okay.

01:00:21.179 --> 01:00:26.322
Well, I was the president of the board of the Matthews House for a while, and I've been a volunteer and supporter for a long time.

01:00:26.322 --> 01:00:27.108
I think he had some involvement there.

01:00:27.108 --> 01:00:27.969
Yeah, yeah.

01:00:27.969 --> 01:00:29.018
Just before I knew him.

01:00:29.128 --> 01:00:29.889
I dig that guy.

01:00:30.028 --> 01:00:33.139
Uh, just tell him, you know, unless you hate him, then I hate him too.

01:00:33.148 --> 01:00:34.338
No, no, he's awesome.

01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:36.298
Uh, he is a perfect Is he your partner now?

01:00:36.338 --> 01:00:37.719
He's my partner now, co owner.

01:00:37.728 --> 01:00:38.278
Okay, what's up Brayden?

01:00:38.449 --> 01:00:38.818
Yeah.

01:00:38.829 --> 01:00:40.034
You'll probably listen to this.

01:00:40.693 --> 01:00:43.903
If he can get through, uh, me talking about RevZero, I'm coaching for an hour and a half.

01:00:43.903 --> 01:00:46.204
He's already heard you talk about that for hours and hours in the past.

01:00:46.204 --> 01:00:46.833
No, we just talk, talk.

01:00:47.083 --> 01:00:55.873
We just talk if I, cause we're gonna give away this, uh, a fancy isolation coffee mug and a bag or maybe two bags of coffee, but.

01:00:55.893 --> 01:00:57.534
Uh, I've got a RevZero mug.

01:00:57.713 --> 01:00:59.114
Oh, it's a RevZero mug, okay.

01:00:59.114 --> 01:00:59.643
Yep, RevZero mug.

01:00:59.869 --> 01:01:01.889
We've got two bags of isolation coffee.

01:01:02.009 --> 01:01:07.619
But what I was wondering about that is, could we just give a mug and one bag away to our listeners and I can just take one bag home?

01:01:07.849 --> 01:01:11.429
I will leave all of it here and where it goes from you, it's totally up to you.

01:01:11.708 --> 01:01:13.208
Alright, we won't talk about it anymore.

01:01:13.759 --> 01:01:21.239
We're gonna do our grab bag questions here in about, uh, 30 minutes if you're listening and so be listening for Dane's answers on that.

01:01:21.668 --> 01:01:22.088
Um.

01:01:23.179 --> 01:01:26.389
And, in the short run, I need to take another potty break.

01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:18.090
Uh, and we are back.

01:02:18.440 --> 01:02:21.969
And, and look, oh, there's only one bag of isolation coffee on the table.

01:02:21.969 --> 01:02:23.150
Oh, and you kept the best one, too.

01:02:23.190 --> 01:02:23.539
Did I?

01:02:23.639 --> 01:02:24.420
The Mexico.

01:02:24.934 --> 01:02:25.235
Oh yeah.

01:02:25.235 --> 01:02:26.735
Oh, the Mexico is so good right now.

01:02:26.735 --> 01:02:34.355
So we, we only roast in small batches and whatever is with the season, so we only buy uh, It's kind of a surprise to you how it turns out each time.

01:02:34.514 --> 01:02:34.855
Yeah.

01:02:34.855 --> 01:02:40.195
And, and Brayden is the head roaster and he's so good at, um, just getting the best out of everything.

01:02:40.195 --> 01:02:42.195
So we only have one blend and that's the table blend.

01:02:42.204 --> 01:02:43.125
We brought that as well.

01:02:43.224 --> 01:02:43.505
Okay.

01:02:43.505 --> 01:02:47.125
And so that's a mix of a African and a Central American.

01:02:47.235 --> 01:02:47.505
Okay.

01:02:47.505 --> 01:02:49.775
And so right now it's the Mexico with Ethiopian.

01:02:50.054 --> 01:02:50.315
And that's really good.

01:02:50.315 --> 01:02:51.625
Oh, but you change that up anyway.

01:02:51.625 --> 01:02:55.405
It's always a table blend, but it's a mix of Africa and South America?

01:02:55.434 --> 01:02:55.724
Yep.

01:02:55.844 --> 01:02:56.554
Or Central America?

01:02:56.684 --> 01:02:58.994
Central America, South America, it moves around.

01:02:59.014 --> 01:02:59.335
Okay.

01:02:59.335 --> 01:03:01.244
But there's a lot of overlap, similarity.

01:03:01.244 --> 01:03:01.494
Yeah, yeah.

01:03:01.494 --> 01:03:04.775
We try to get some level of consistency and flavor with that.

01:03:05.840 --> 01:03:10.940
Everything else is single origin, so we have four single origins at a time, and we have subscription service.

01:03:10.980 --> 01:03:13.699
Yeah, I was gonna say, talk to me about the business model of isolation.

01:03:13.989 --> 01:03:18.679
I don't see you in coffee shops around, or We're in one coffee shop, and that's Arboretum Coffee.

01:03:18.719 --> 01:03:19.170
Oh, yeah.

01:03:19.190 --> 01:03:20.590
You can buy us on the shelves there.

01:03:20.940 --> 01:03:22.179
But it's all subscription based.

01:03:22.179 --> 01:03:22.980
It's all online.

01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:26.219
And this is how I started it in, in pandemic times.

01:03:26.219 --> 01:03:26.539
Okay.

01:03:26.550 --> 01:03:27.940
Was people would place an order.

01:03:28.250 --> 01:03:29.659
It might have been text at first.

01:03:29.659 --> 01:03:30.579
It was like, Hey, do you want a bag?

01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:33.510
And then I'd show up on their doorstep, uh, Friday afternoon.

01:03:33.519 --> 01:03:35.989
We'd hang out and chat for a little bit and I'd leave the coffee.

01:03:36.579 --> 01:03:36.869
Uh.

01:03:36.880 --> 01:03:38.639
Leave the coffee on the front step and in a bag.

01:03:38.829 --> 01:03:39.960
Of course we had to be like.

01:03:40.079 --> 01:03:40.380
Yeah.

01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:41.170
Far away.

01:03:41.210 --> 01:03:42.110
Bring it in the next day.

01:03:42.110 --> 01:03:42.420
Yeah.

01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:44.920
We had to talk through screens.

01:03:45.340 --> 01:03:45.889
Um.

01:03:46.409 --> 01:03:47.699
Cause screens, of course.

01:03:48.170 --> 01:03:51.539
Screen doors, just as effective as masks, but it prevented COVID.

01:03:52.079 --> 01:03:56.349
Uh, but I had little kids and so my boys would come with me on the deliveries.

01:03:56.380 --> 01:04:03.300
And so I got to drive around Fort Collins, got time in the car with my, he was six years old at the time and a two year old.

01:04:03.300 --> 01:04:06.179
Well, you're doing new single origins on a regular basis, right?

01:04:06.199 --> 01:04:08.980
So it's almost like a wine club where the wine changes as it's.

01:04:09.275 --> 01:04:09.664
Fresh.

01:04:09.675 --> 01:04:17.755
It's all roaster's choice, so we'll get a few samples and Brayden will spend a few weeks testing and roasting before we buy a large order.

01:04:17.835 --> 01:04:18.175
Yeah.

01:04:18.224 --> 01:04:22.985
And then that's what we have on hand for a couple hundred pounds or a thousand pounds or Yeah.

01:04:23.005 --> 01:04:23.695
Something like that.

01:04:23.695 --> 01:04:23.945
Yeah.

01:04:24.445 --> 01:04:30.675
We only buy maybe 100, 200 pounds, uh, for one at a time and we're going through it a lot faster.

01:04:30.675 --> 01:04:32.594
So we finally moved out of the garage.

01:04:32.855 --> 01:04:33.554
We're in a roasting space.

01:04:33.715 --> 01:04:35.164
We have a larger roaster.

01:04:35.204 --> 01:04:36.170
Um, yeah, it's, it's fun.

01:04:36.170 --> 01:04:37.795
So it's not really just a hobby business.

01:04:37.795 --> 01:04:39.355
It actually pays you a little bit at this point.

01:04:39.385 --> 01:04:41.585
And what's the cost to be a customer?

01:04:41.875 --> 01:04:43.795
Let's see our subscriptions.

01:04:43.855 --> 01:04:50.184
Uh, we've got two, we've got the table subscription and right now it's 12 bucks and you're going to get a Monthly?

01:04:50.659 --> 01:04:51.710
Uh, no, per delivery.

01:04:51.730 --> 01:04:56.409
So it could be monthly, it could be weekly, it could be bi weekly, it depends on how addicted you are.

01:04:56.420 --> 01:04:57.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:57.119 --> 01:04:57.449
Okay.

01:04:57.719 --> 01:05:00.050
Um, our coffee is for the, the home connoisseur.

01:05:00.239 --> 01:05:01.710
So you're, you're working from home.

01:05:01.719 --> 01:05:08.159
You've got your coffee bar set up, you grind it fresh, um, and, and then you get to discover something new.

01:05:08.250 --> 01:05:08.469
Hmm.

01:05:08.789 --> 01:05:09.389
Um.

01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:11.750
And then, so that's 12 bucks.

01:05:11.769 --> 01:05:14.550
And then we've got our, our isolation subscription.

01:05:14.550 --> 01:05:15.789
So that's like our top shelf stuff.

01:05:15.789 --> 01:05:22.260
That's going to be the anaerobic process, the Ethiopian beans, the ones that have a really unique flavor profile.

01:05:22.835 --> 01:05:27.105
The, the table subscription is going to be the safe one that your in laws are probably still going to like.

01:05:27.105 --> 01:05:27.565
Yeah, yeah.

01:05:27.565 --> 01:05:29.635
The, the The weird stuff.

01:05:29.664 --> 01:05:31.985
The isolation is going to be the, the weird stuff.

01:05:32.014 --> 01:05:35.795
Like the, you know, the It's almost like fine wines.

01:05:35.804 --> 01:05:36.599
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

01:05:36.599 --> 01:05:38.815
They've got really, uh, powerful Very pungent aromas.

01:05:38.965 --> 01:05:40.175
Yeah, but so good.

01:05:40.195 --> 01:05:40.394
So good.

01:05:40.394 --> 01:05:40.885
Yeah, yeah.

01:05:40.954 --> 01:05:43.614
And that's 18 or 20 bucks a bag or something like that.

01:05:44.905 --> 01:05:45.784
Can I get a mix?

01:05:45.844 --> 01:05:50.005
Can I get a subscription that automatically sends me a weird one once in a while, but mostly I get the table?

01:05:50.074 --> 01:05:51.815
Not yet, but we could, we could figure that out.

01:05:52.045 --> 01:05:55.704
Um, being a small business, we wait for feedback like that, and then we figure out how to do it.

01:05:55.755 --> 01:05:58.375
So someone asked, could we have a tin instead of a bag?

01:05:58.960 --> 01:05:59.840
Yeah, we can figure that out.

01:05:59.840 --> 01:06:03.860
Is it not really a subscription, it's more of an order when you're ready kind of a thing?

01:06:03.860 --> 01:06:04.809
But it's delivery?

01:06:04.840 --> 01:06:06.269
No, it's on a recurring subscription.

01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:07.219
And you can choose your frequency.

01:06:07.219 --> 01:06:08.530
Oh, you choose your frequency.

01:06:08.530 --> 01:06:08.760
Yeah.

01:06:08.760 --> 01:06:09.280
Oh, cool.

01:06:09.289 --> 01:06:09.559
Yeah.

01:06:09.610 --> 01:06:11.219
And then free delivery in Fort Collins.

01:06:11.239 --> 01:06:12.480
And do you do that?

01:06:12.659 --> 01:06:13.969
No, we have a delivery driver now.

01:06:14.050 --> 01:06:14.460
Okay.

01:06:14.519 --> 01:06:14.670
Awesome.

01:06:14.710 --> 01:06:16.510
Although every now and then I do, which is kind of nice.

01:06:16.789 --> 01:06:17.599
Right, right.

01:06:17.730 --> 01:06:19.099
I mean, we've had subscribers.

01:06:19.389 --> 01:06:23.585
It's been a business now for four years, and I think the average, People are with us for years.

01:06:24.025 --> 01:06:27.304
They've been subscribing to the coffee for two, three years and we stick with it.

01:06:27.545 --> 01:06:35.534
I imagine building the, the automations into the system, you know, once you're getting texts from all these people at first, but now you gotta not think so much about that.

01:06:35.545 --> 01:06:35.965
Uh huh.

01:06:36.065 --> 01:06:36.385
Right?

01:06:36.385 --> 01:06:39.695
And just have like And get all the orders at one time on Thursday morning.

01:06:39.704 --> 01:06:45.554
The route goes out this day and here's the logistically planned route where we're going to drop all these things off.

01:06:45.554 --> 01:06:45.945
Yeah.

01:06:45.974 --> 01:06:50.275
It's been a fun business and it just, we just keep reinvesting everything back into it and keep growing it.

01:06:50.610 --> 01:06:57.195
Um, the cool thing about roasting local and not having a shop space is we get to We don't have to charge as much for a bag of coffee.

01:06:57.204 --> 01:06:57.494
Right.

01:06:57.494 --> 01:06:59.235
We're not paying for prime Totally.

01:06:59.255 --> 01:07:00.394
retail space.

01:07:00.445 --> 01:07:05.144
I was noticing I actually bought a bag of whole bean, uh, Café Richesse Okay.

01:07:05.195 --> 01:07:08.005
at, uh, what was Beaver's, now is the Fresh Food Market.

01:07:08.074 --> 01:07:08.335
Yeah.

01:07:08.474 --> 01:07:09.744
But it's only 9.

01:07:09.744 --> 01:07:13.465
99 for a pretty good coffee whole bean, and it's probably the same thing.

01:07:13.625 --> 01:07:13.934
Yeah.

01:07:13.994 --> 01:07:18.344
You know, they don't have to try to sell retail and pay the rent at a retail place.

01:07:18.425 --> 01:07:18.855
Yeah.

01:07:19.110 --> 01:07:20.070
Yeah, so we're trying to figure out.

01:07:20.070 --> 01:07:31.559
Well, I mean the whole reason I started the company was because the coffee I enjoyed drinking cost too much for me to maintain that budget, so I was like, Oh, it's probably cheaper to start a company than it is to keep buying specialty coffee.

01:07:31.710 --> 01:07:35.940
I've been enjoying, uh, uh, Matt with M& E painting.

01:07:35.989 --> 01:07:36.219
Yeah.

01:07:36.230 --> 01:07:39.769
Has, have you seen his little Spanish coffee makers that he gives away sometimes?

01:07:39.769 --> 01:07:40.050
No.

01:07:40.380 --> 01:07:45.996
Um, cause he, he and his wife do something with a foundation where they Sponsor exchanges to Spain's been going on hikes to Spain.

01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:47.730
Yeah, exactly.

01:07:47.730 --> 01:07:49.739
And brings men's group over there and stuff like that.

01:07:49.739 --> 01:07:51.809
He's kind of a coach of sorts as well.

01:07:51.809 --> 01:07:54.269
I don't know more, sorry, Matt, if I screwed this up.

01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:59.340
But anyway, I, I either bought or won, I think I won as a prize at some event.

01:07:59.400 --> 01:08:00.690
One of his little Spanish coffee.

01:08:01.349 --> 01:08:02.849
You've seen them before, where the bottom.

01:08:03.605 --> 01:08:11.275
is water, and then there's like a little, um, cup full of grounds, and then it boils it through the grounds into the top, so it's Like a mocha pot.

01:08:11.355 --> 01:08:22.494
Yeah, it's bigger than a cappuccino, you know, bigger than an espresso, but it's smaller than a coffee, so it's like maybe a seven ounce out of two big healthy scoops of coffee, so it's strong, but not espresso strong.

01:08:22.494 --> 01:08:23.675
It's like stovetop espresso.

01:08:23.744 --> 01:08:27.095
Stovetop espresso, basically, and it's frankly my favorite.

01:08:27.125 --> 01:08:32.005
I like it better than espresso, especially when there's really good Weird coffee in there.

01:08:32.015 --> 01:08:37.545
And there's something about, um, making it yourself, like making coffee is, is part of the experience.

01:08:37.614 --> 01:08:37.965
Totally.

01:08:37.965 --> 01:08:39.345
I remember my grandma had this, uh.

01:08:39.354 --> 01:08:40.645
I like it taking longer.

01:08:40.654 --> 01:08:41.284
Yeah, yeah.

01:08:41.295 --> 01:08:41.904
I love it more when it's done.

01:08:41.904 --> 01:08:43.904
I like doing the Chimex or the AeroPress.

01:08:43.935 --> 01:08:45.715
I mean, I get lazy most mornings.

01:08:45.715 --> 01:08:47.645
I just have the, the drip coffee pot.

01:08:48.454 --> 01:08:50.064
I grind it fresh every morning, of course.

01:08:50.064 --> 01:08:50.385
Okay.

01:08:50.435 --> 01:08:57.625
But, uh, my grandma had this, um, like wood carving on the wall and it said, a man who chops his own wood is twice warmed.

01:08:58.439 --> 01:09:01.380
I'm like a man who grinds his own coffee is twice energized.

01:09:05.180 --> 01:09:12.500
So any, um, like visions for isolation could Braden like take it bigger the future.

01:09:12.500 --> 01:09:16.329
It seems like you're kind of found your sweet spot in terms of how you want to spend a lot of your time.

01:09:16.369 --> 01:09:20.489
I love, I love both and this is what's hard and I know a lot of entrepreneurs are kind of in the same boat.

01:09:20.489 --> 01:09:26.239
They have two or three projects that they really have fun with and so it's always hard to let go of one.

01:09:27.739 --> 01:09:32.479
I've always used business to learn the first coffee business I founded.

01:09:32.479 --> 01:09:34.359
I wanted to learn how to do business finance.

01:09:34.630 --> 01:09:36.310
So instead of taking a class, I started a company.

01:09:36.770 --> 01:09:39.890
Um, this one, I wanted to get better at coffee roasting.

01:09:40.050 --> 01:09:41.760
Turns out Braden's way better at it than me.

01:09:41.760 --> 01:09:44.350
So once he came on board, I quit roasting altogether.

01:09:44.350 --> 01:09:45.930
And so I do all the back end.

01:09:45.930 --> 01:09:46.800
I do the website.

01:09:46.810 --> 01:09:47.720
I do the finance.

01:09:48.579 --> 01:09:50.250
He does a little bagging and everything else.

01:09:50.250 --> 01:09:50.369
Yep.

01:09:50.710 --> 01:09:51.750
Roasting and packaging.

01:09:52.954 --> 01:10:08.585
I've always had this fascination with, um, local, uh, employee owned self, uh, you know, you don't need to grow for the sake of growth to be a good business, um, to, to be small and to be, uh, serving a need in your local community.

01:10:09.045 --> 01:10:12.835
And so that's why I see isolation coffee becoming, we want to bring more people on board.

01:10:13.185 --> 01:10:17.585
Um, and give them a piece of it, you know, this isn't, this isn't my retirement plan.

01:10:17.585 --> 01:10:28.314
This is something that I would be really proud of to see grow into, uh, a group of 12 people that all have ownership in it that are, that all chip in the labor if they want to.

01:10:28.425 --> 01:10:28.795
Yeah.

01:10:28.795 --> 01:10:31.675
And they're serving a need in, in a local community.

01:10:31.965 --> 01:10:33.604
I mean, coffee isn't that great of a need.

01:10:33.604 --> 01:10:38.435
It's a luxury, but it's, it's a fun thing to do and it's great to connect with people over.

01:10:38.475 --> 01:10:39.744
And are you sourcing in a way that.

01:10:39.944 --> 01:10:44.775
So if we're, if we're good, and we're doing good, why aren't we doing good?

01:10:44.775 --> 01:10:46.386
nobody's gonna buy our stuff.

01:10:46.386 --> 01:10:47.675
And that's a problem.

01:10:47.675 --> 01:10:50.981
So we have a lot of, we have a lot of, we have a lot of people who are the ones that make the money.

01:10:50.981 --> 01:10:52.975
And, and, so we've gotta take, we've gotta get them off our list as well.

01:10:52.975 --> 01:10:54.835
Because we've gotta be we've gotta be able to supply them to other people.

01:10:54.835 --> 01:10:57.199
At least some of the visit the farms, right?

01:10:57.199 --> 01:10:59.819
Where we can do our own sourcing, but that's far down the road.

01:10:59.819 --> 01:11:03.850
We really liked the discovery of using an importer instead of locking in.

01:11:03.850 --> 01:11:13.579
Well, now that you've got profits, you could, uh, kind of basically hide those profits with a trip for you and Jaden and your spouses to go and investigate coffee farms in Costa Rica.

01:11:13.590 --> 01:11:16.020
I think the next use of the profits is to bring more people on.

01:11:16.619 --> 01:11:16.909
All right.

01:11:17.020 --> 01:11:17.630
Fair enough.

01:11:17.819 --> 01:11:20.920
Well, uh, you run it like you want to.

01:11:20.930 --> 01:11:21.170
Yep.

01:11:21.170 --> 01:11:24.100
Uh, but also, yeah, less time.

01:11:24.265 --> 01:11:26.015
and less direct work for you guys.

01:11:26.015 --> 01:11:28.354
And with Jayden does he?

01:11:28.354 --> 01:11:29.135
Braeden, I'm sorry.

01:11:30.385 --> 01:11:33.385
Ava's boyfriend is Jayden and I got him tongue tied.

01:11:34.204 --> 01:11:35.484
Braeden, sorry Braeden.

01:11:35.854 --> 01:11:40.909
Um, what's, does he have a, a Day job too, or is he a full time roaster with the coffee business?

01:11:40.939 --> 01:11:43.810
Like me, he probably has more things going on than he should.

01:11:43.909 --> 01:11:44.310
Okay.

01:11:44.460 --> 01:11:48.500
He's got two young boys at home as well, but he works for a cabinet maker.

01:11:48.550 --> 01:11:53.250
So he's almost full time at a cabinet shop, which is right next to where we have our roasting space.

01:11:53.260 --> 01:11:54.170
So that's really convenient.

01:11:54.170 --> 01:11:54.609
Very cool.

01:11:54.890 --> 01:11:56.609
But he's really talented at that as well.

01:11:56.649 --> 01:12:01.609
And then he also runs a nonprofit, Half Step Ministries, where he does music.

01:12:02.015 --> 01:12:03.835
Uh, education for high schoolers.

01:12:03.975 --> 01:12:07.314
And so, I know that, that brings a lot of joy to them as well.

01:12:07.324 --> 01:12:08.164
Yeah, that's really cool.

01:12:08.225 --> 01:12:11.755
It's, it's nice that, to have a partner where we're both kind of approaching it the same way.

01:12:11.774 --> 01:12:12.335
Yeah, yeah.

01:12:12.354 --> 01:12:16.085
It's like we really love, um, this business, isolation.

01:12:16.085 --> 01:12:17.225
We really love the product.

01:12:17.225 --> 01:12:18.784
We really like working with each other.

01:12:18.805 --> 01:12:19.185
Mm hmm.

01:12:19.449 --> 01:12:29.289
Um, and where it goes from here, we're, we're holding loosely, which is kind of counter to my approach to, uh, RevZero and management consulting, which is what's your objective and how are you going to get there?

01:12:30.029 --> 01:12:33.109
And within isolation, it's like, well, we'll see what it's going to be.

01:12:33.220 --> 01:12:37.760
Yeah, God's plan is probably going to sort it out if we don't push it too hard one way or the other.

01:12:37.850 --> 01:12:39.699
And it, I, I find that both.

01:12:41.175 --> 01:12:47.454
Doing both things, um, gives me perspective in both arenas that I wouldn't get otherwise.

01:12:47.524 --> 01:12:53.395
And it's really easy as a coach or a consultant to come in and, and, and think you see what needs to be done.

01:12:54.824 --> 01:13:14.725
But as an owner myself of a really small business that is cashflow positive and can't afford to pay me, can't afford to pay my partner, like we're just reinvesting in it, that we don't have the resources to, To go do what we know we should do and that's the state that so many of my clients are in too.

01:13:14.774 --> 01:13:16.135
They know what they should do.

01:13:16.345 --> 01:13:17.965
They don't have the resources to do it.

01:13:18.204 --> 01:13:36.819
And so, uh, it, it forces me to approach coaching with a lot more grace and patience of I know there's not A right next step necessarily, like the thing, you know, you should do, but there's the thing that, well, what could you do, what are you willing to do and what do you want to do?

01:13:36.869 --> 01:13:37.060
Yeah.

01:13:37.060 --> 01:13:37.420
Yeah.

01:13:37.550 --> 01:13:37.960
Yeah.

01:13:37.979 --> 01:13:45.729
So it, again, I went to grad school and I got patience and in starting a, uh, coffee company, it's given me perspective.

01:13:46.229 --> 01:13:46.649
Fair enough.

01:13:46.810 --> 01:13:46.899
Yeah.

01:13:47.350 --> 01:13:52.130
Um, I feel like we can, uh, roll into the time machine real briefly.

01:13:52.170 --> 01:13:52.439
Okay.

01:13:52.920 --> 01:13:53.369
Um.

01:13:53.369 --> 01:13:54.130
How far back are we going?

01:13:54.130 --> 01:13:56.470
We go back to usually like first grade.

01:13:56.569 --> 01:13:57.060
Okay.

01:13:57.449 --> 01:14:03.039
Uh, do you want to share, like, what your family and life circumstances were as a six year old?

01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:03.789
Sure.

01:14:04.090 --> 01:14:05.829
Which is, um, yeah.

01:14:06.329 --> 01:14:06.739
Okay.

01:14:07.029 --> 01:14:08.180
So Oh, wait, wait.

01:14:09.720 --> 01:14:10.329
Sound effects?

01:14:10.380 --> 01:14:11.909
Yeah, we're back there in 1982.

01:14:14.284 --> 01:14:15.604
No, so I don't know.

01:14:15.635 --> 01:14:16.824
I was born in 86.

01:14:16.904 --> 01:14:17.975
Oh, you were born in 86?

01:14:18.034 --> 01:14:18.805
born in 86.

01:14:18.944 --> 01:14:19.805
I'm a 90s kid.

01:14:19.895 --> 01:14:21.854
You are a grown up looking guy.

01:14:22.765 --> 01:14:23.715
I mean, you don't look old.

01:14:23.715 --> 01:14:24.694
You just seem mature.

01:14:24.704 --> 01:14:26.755
Well, it's taken me a 30s still.

01:14:26.805 --> 01:14:27.505
Yeah, yeah.

01:14:27.505 --> 01:14:28.045
Yeah, yeah.

01:14:29.295 --> 01:14:31.774
I, I, I, so, yeah.

01:14:32.555 --> 01:14:34.404
Was mature when I was 13.

01:14:34.505 --> 01:14:35.185
That's what I figured.

01:14:35.835 --> 01:14:36.055
Yeah.

01:14:36.055 --> 01:14:36.295
Yeah.

01:14:36.345 --> 01:14:48.685
I got my first job when I was, uh, I think I was probably 14 and I didn't tell my parents I just Went and applied for a job and then came home after I got the job And it was like, Hey, I'm going to need a ride to work every now and then.

01:14:50.204 --> 01:14:52.324
Most I can take my bike, but when the weather is bad.

01:14:52.954 --> 01:14:53.645
So, yeah.

01:14:53.645 --> 01:14:56.664
So talk to me about, uh, the, the, the setting.

01:14:56.784 --> 01:14:57.295
Yeah.

01:14:57.314 --> 01:14:59.234
So I grew up in West Texas primarily.

01:14:59.234 --> 01:15:00.595
I moved, I moved a ton as a kid.

01:15:00.595 --> 01:15:02.765
Like what, like Lubbock or?

01:15:02.774 --> 01:15:03.404
Further West.

01:15:03.425 --> 01:15:03.994
Further West.

01:15:03.994 --> 01:15:06.164
So a small town called Denver City is where I spent.

01:15:06.524 --> 01:15:10.154
the majority of my time, but I also lived in Midland and Hobbs, New Mexico.

01:15:10.305 --> 01:15:10.664
Okay.

01:15:10.704 --> 01:15:12.534
I moved around those three places a fair bit.

01:15:12.595 --> 01:15:15.034
Um, families from Oklahoma, but they followed the oil.

01:15:15.095 --> 01:15:17.545
And so, um, that's how I got in the industry.

01:15:17.545 --> 01:15:19.185
My dad's a petroleum engineer.

01:15:19.314 --> 01:15:19.685
Okay.

01:15:19.854 --> 01:15:25.614
So I grew up with this idea of, uh, engineer is someone who wears jeans and a button up shirt to work.

01:15:25.715 --> 01:15:25.975
Yep.

01:15:26.085 --> 01:15:27.375
Gets dirty doing their job.

01:15:27.664 --> 01:15:35.345
So I grew up with this idea of engineering being very hands on and, um, uh, hardworking position.

01:15:36.100 --> 01:15:38.539
Uh, but I was homeschooled all the way through high school.

01:15:38.880 --> 01:15:41.949
Never went to, to public school or, or private school.

01:15:41.970 --> 01:15:42.329
Homeschooled all the way.

01:15:42.329 --> 01:15:43.029
Other siblings?

01:15:43.409 --> 01:15:44.979
Uh, older brother, younger sister.

01:15:45.090 --> 01:15:45.420
Okay.

01:15:45.430 --> 01:15:47.039
Uh, about three years on either side of me.

01:15:47.039 --> 01:15:49.529
Okay, so a solid middle child position.

01:15:49.550 --> 01:15:50.199
Yep, yep.

01:15:50.260 --> 01:15:51.539
Uh, just always learning.

01:15:52.020 --> 01:15:58.340
checking it out, you know, the, the learning, learning from my brother's mistakes and, uh, yeah, well, just observing.

01:15:58.350 --> 01:16:07.880
That's what I've seen a lot of is that that middle child oftentimes observes like the, the first kid is like the trailblazer, the trailblazer.

01:16:07.880 --> 01:16:08.310
Exactly.

01:16:08.310 --> 01:16:11.520
They're exploring on their own kind of, in some ways there's an observer.

01:16:11.520 --> 01:16:14.675
And then the last one is virtually, right?

01:16:14.694 --> 01:16:16.604
Like as far as their perspective is concerned.

01:16:17.364 --> 01:16:21.954
Well, and, and in my family's case, our, our sister, younger sister, she is the star, right?

01:16:21.965 --> 01:16:23.335
She's, she's done some amazing.

01:16:23.345 --> 01:16:25.265
Well, sometimes it happens that way, right?

01:16:25.265 --> 01:16:27.145
Like there's some influence even in the ranking.

01:16:27.154 --> 01:16:29.015
She knew what she wanted to do early on.

01:16:29.055 --> 01:16:30.494
She became a vet.

01:16:30.505 --> 01:16:36.225
She's a all star horse vet down in New Mexico, travels around working with some of the best horses down there.

01:16:36.274 --> 01:16:38.625
Um, me and my brother, it took us a bit longer.

01:16:38.645 --> 01:16:41.194
to find where we needed to be where the traction is.

01:16:41.204 --> 01:16:43.494
I thought I knew where I needed to be and that was engineering.

01:16:43.494 --> 01:16:56.435
But 10 years later here on psychology, um, but yeah, uh, grew up homeschooled, grew up in scouts, you know, Nate Bargatze, he talks about, um, so Boy Scouts was kind of your interaction manner, right?

01:16:56.435 --> 01:17:01.444
Like a lot of people that think about homeschooling think, well, whatever my kid's going to learn how to socialize.

01:17:02.010 --> 01:17:02.319
Yeah.

01:17:02.649 --> 01:17:05.409
And it was, it was scouts for me and church really involved there.

01:17:05.409 --> 01:17:09.029
Like Nate Bargatze's experience growing up in the Christian nineties home.

01:17:09.500 --> 01:17:11.960
Like it was stereotypical, you know.

01:17:12.010 --> 01:17:13.380
And what kind of community are we talking?

01:17:13.390 --> 01:17:18.210
Is this a town of 20, 000, was like 5, 000.

01:17:18.210 --> 01:17:18.619
Okay.

01:17:18.680 --> 01:17:18.970
Yeah.

01:17:19.350 --> 01:17:26.000
And most of the whole economy revolved around oil, so it was good times or bad times, and hardly ever anything in between.

01:17:26.329 --> 01:17:31.750
Yeah, and I, I, I suppose I didn't notice it all that much as a kid, but that's probably why we moved as much as we did.

01:17:31.750 --> 01:17:34.289
You know, by the time I was, uh, in college.

01:17:34.430 --> 01:17:38.630
Well, in my life, I've moved 20, my son and I were counting this up, 26 times.

01:17:38.699 --> 01:17:39.100
Wow.

01:17:39.239 --> 01:17:42.380
And I've been in Fort Collins 10 years, and it's the longest I've been anywhere.

01:17:42.800 --> 01:17:43.270
Interesting.

01:17:44.260 --> 01:17:48.824
And, uh, so You go off to college then?

01:17:48.824 --> 01:17:52.585
Is that kind of the next, I mean other than getting a job and whatever else?

01:17:52.595 --> 01:17:56.095
Home, homeschooling for me in high school kind of turned into unschooling.

01:17:56.479 --> 01:17:57.810
Uh, there's a lot of freedom.

01:17:57.829 --> 01:18:00.760
You were already plenty smart, kind of at 13, 14?

01:18:00.800 --> 01:18:04.310
Um, no, I, I, I don't know if I was smart enough.

01:18:04.359 --> 01:18:05.109
Definitely not.

01:18:05.140 --> 01:18:05.800
Independent.

01:18:06.039 --> 01:18:07.380
Like, you were free range enough?

01:18:07.439 --> 01:18:08.310
I was free range.

01:18:08.340 --> 01:18:10.130
I mean, you grow up in a small town in West Texas.

01:18:10.159 --> 01:18:13.229
I was, especially being homeschooled, all my friends are in school.

01:18:13.489 --> 01:18:20.300
I'm out riding my bike on the, the, the lease roads and going to Caliche pits and all this stuff and, uh, and getting into mischief.

01:18:20.300 --> 01:18:21.869
Do you have other homeschool friends?

01:18:21.930 --> 01:18:23.319
There was one other family in town.

01:18:23.319 --> 01:18:23.670
Okay.

01:18:23.670 --> 01:18:23.869
Yeah.

01:18:23.869 --> 01:18:24.720
And so we hung out.

01:18:24.720 --> 01:18:25.630
We had a little band.

01:18:25.630 --> 01:18:27.000
We would play guitar together.

01:18:27.159 --> 01:18:27.529
Okay.

01:18:27.670 --> 01:18:28.100
Okay.

01:18:28.689 --> 01:18:29.010
Yeah.

01:18:29.010 --> 01:18:30.819
And then, um, I don't know.

01:18:30.819 --> 01:18:34.289
I, I had a lot of jobs, uh, always a lot of work.

01:18:34.310 --> 01:18:40.369
And then I actually graduated high school a semester early, uh, went to a junior college for a few classes.

01:18:40.390 --> 01:18:40.779
And then.

01:18:41.204 --> 01:18:42.234
Got a job offshore.

01:18:42.255 --> 01:18:45.074
So I worked on a drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico.

01:18:45.085 --> 01:18:45.505
Wow.

01:18:45.895 --> 01:18:49.175
Uh, Was that like connections from your dad kind of thing or whatever?

01:18:49.175 --> 01:18:53.345
He basically said, Hey, here's the company that does the, the, the catering.

01:18:53.675 --> 01:18:59.545
And so I went on their website, I submitted an application and they accepted my application.

01:18:59.635 --> 01:19:00.064
Right.

01:19:00.234 --> 01:19:02.175
So I flew myself to New Orleans.

01:19:02.595 --> 01:19:29.204
Went to a training there, and it was me this this skinny 17 year old kid from West, Texas and a bunch of ex convicts We were the we were the new employees right and I remember I didn't have steel toed boots And so after that class I didn't have a vehicle I was in industrial section of New Orleans and I'm just walking around to try to get to a boot store so I can get my steel toed boots and Surprised I made it out of there alive.

01:19:30.234 --> 01:19:31.954
And then, uh, flew down.

01:19:31.954 --> 01:19:33.324
And did they have a boot storage?

01:19:33.685 --> 01:19:34.654
Yeah, found one.

01:19:34.704 --> 01:19:35.364
I found my boots.

01:19:35.404 --> 01:19:36.104
I was pretty resourceful.

01:19:36.914 --> 01:19:51.935
I took care of myself, found my boots, um, and then I would fly down to New Orleans, catch a hour, two hour long taxi ride down to a heliport, get on a helicopter, and fly another forty minutes out into the middle of the Gulf of Mexico.

01:19:52.024 --> 01:19:54.274
For the day, or for a week at a time?

01:19:54.425 --> 01:19:55.225
Three weeks.

01:19:55.560 --> 01:19:56.180
Oh wow.

01:19:56.229 --> 01:19:56.670
Yeah.

01:19:56.720 --> 01:19:59.060
So I was a janitor on a drill ship.

01:19:59.079 --> 01:20:03.239
So I worked the night shift and what that meant was, um, I made everyone's beds.

01:20:03.875 --> 01:20:09.185
And I gathered everyone's dirty laundry, took it to the, I mean, this was a massive ship drill ship.

01:20:09.204 --> 01:20:09.614
Yeah.

01:20:09.614 --> 01:20:10.975
It's bigger than the Titanic.

01:20:11.024 --> 01:20:15.135
And, um, I was cleaning the, the heliport, uh, or the helipad.

01:20:15.135 --> 01:20:18.045
There's like rooms for 30 people or something, whatever.

01:20:18.045 --> 01:20:19.515
A hundred, hundreds of people.

01:20:19.585 --> 01:20:20.085
Oh, dang.

01:20:20.125 --> 01:20:20.595
Interesting.

01:20:20.614 --> 01:20:25.954
And then I'd also work in the kitchen where I was responsible for cooking like 400 strips of bacon for every meal.

01:20:27.284 --> 01:20:33.524
I got in trouble because, um, we had a, a dignitary visiting and so we were all cleaning.

01:20:34.760 --> 01:20:35.069
Right.

01:20:35.399 --> 01:20:37.609
Getting everything spick and span.

01:20:38.010 --> 01:20:41.750
And I polished the, the handrails of the stairwell.

01:20:41.789 --> 01:20:43.020
And so they were really slippery.

01:20:43.020 --> 01:20:45.710
So I got in trouble for that one.

01:20:45.710 --> 01:20:49.369
I had to go back and unpolish the handrail and the stairwell.

01:20:49.369 --> 01:20:51.483
So no one would have found out.

01:20:51.483 --> 01:20:51.792
Yeah.

01:20:51.792 --> 01:20:52.100
Yeah.

01:20:52.100 --> 01:20:52.409
Yeah.

01:20:52.409 --> 01:20:55.409
And then from there, um, a few different.

01:20:56.060 --> 01:21:01.439
Uh, colleges, um, I was paying for it as I went through, and so I looked for the cheap stuff.

01:21:01.460 --> 01:21:05.560
Just kind of dabbled in I knew I wanted to do, well, to do engineering.

01:21:06.220 --> 01:21:08.630
One, because it would pay my way through school.

01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:11.710
There are very few degrees that have paid internships.

01:21:11.750 --> 01:21:12.199
Yeah, yeah.

01:21:12.460 --> 01:21:16.579
Um, and so I did the basics at a small university in New Mexico.

01:21:16.949 --> 01:21:21.119
And then transferred to Texas Tech because there is a girl in Lubbock that I wanted to be around.

01:21:21.270 --> 01:21:21.579
Okay.

01:21:21.869 --> 01:21:22.449
Is she your wife?

01:21:22.449 --> 01:21:22.689
No.

01:21:22.699 --> 01:21:23.029
She is.

01:21:23.039 --> 01:21:23.369
Yeah.

01:21:23.369 --> 01:21:23.750
That's good.

01:21:23.760 --> 01:21:27.500
We actually got married, uh, end of sophomore year.

01:21:27.510 --> 01:21:27.640
How did you find her?

01:21:28.149 --> 01:21:29.600
We were next door neighbors in high school.

01:21:29.689 --> 01:21:30.100
Okay.

01:21:30.189 --> 01:21:30.550
Yeah.

01:21:30.600 --> 01:21:32.789
So I moved in next door when we were about 15.

01:21:33.199 --> 01:21:43.989
All right, and then uh, we were dating in high school and we didn't break up even though we moved to different Towns for school and then both found our way to Lubbock and got married when I was 20.

01:21:44.029 --> 01:21:46.720
She was 19 I've been through Lubbock actually before.

01:21:47.130 --> 01:21:49.909
There's really no other reason to be is you're going through there, right?

01:21:49.949 --> 01:21:50.359
Right?

01:21:50.409 --> 01:21:53.417
Yeah, pretty much Big biggest town.

01:21:53.417 --> 01:21:56.140
I don't know 50, 000 people or something.

01:21:56.250 --> 01:21:58.649
No, it's it's I don't know what it is now.

01:21:58.649 --> 01:21:59.800
It's a lot like Fort Collins.

01:22:00.119 --> 01:22:01.100
So it's a college town.

01:22:01.100 --> 01:22:01.359
Yeah.

01:22:01.439 --> 01:22:01.649
Yeah.

01:22:01.649 --> 01:22:02.770
Texas tech university.

01:22:02.810 --> 01:22:08.239
And, uh, I mean, it is like Christian university, a hundred miles in every direction is pretty much empty.

01:22:08.270 --> 01:22:09.310
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:11.859
Uh, it's going to take you two hours to get anywhere else.

01:22:13.925 --> 01:22:16.345
Uh, yeah, it's probably 150, 200, 000 now.

01:22:16.345 --> 01:22:16.734
Okay.

01:22:17.114 --> 01:22:20.864
Well, which makes it kind of an oasis of culture in some ways, even.

01:22:20.875 --> 01:22:21.114
Yeah.

01:22:21.154 --> 01:22:23.204
I would imagine for West Texas, right?

01:22:23.204 --> 01:22:24.944
There's probably not Oh, yeah.

01:22:24.944 --> 01:22:27.935
Is there another cultural center in West Texas?

01:22:27.944 --> 01:22:31.545
Well, so this was my Like, San Antonio is way south, but Yeah, we never went down there.

01:22:31.564 --> 01:22:32.954
We would go to Midland sometimes.

01:22:32.954 --> 01:22:33.194
Yeah.

01:22:33.225 --> 01:22:33.585
And love it.

01:22:34.010 --> 01:22:37.029
And Midland's kind of a big town, but it's, it's like all refineries.

01:22:37.029 --> 01:22:39.039
It's like a hundred thousand and yeah.

01:22:39.090 --> 01:22:40.130
There's Midland, Odessa.

01:22:40.180 --> 01:22:41.329
So it's kind of a Metroplex.

01:22:41.329 --> 01:22:46.154
But it's all Roughnecks there, whereas Lubbock has a couple of colleges, a Christian school and a proper church.

01:22:46.614 --> 01:22:47.255
University.

01:22:47.265 --> 01:22:47.685
Yeah.

01:22:47.814 --> 01:22:48.055
Yeah.

01:22:48.055 --> 01:22:50.574
And, and there's a lot more agriculture in Lubbock.

01:22:50.875 --> 01:22:53.595
So a lot more farming, horse farms and stuff like that.

01:22:53.595 --> 01:22:53.854
Yeah.

01:22:54.145 --> 01:22:54.505
Okay.

01:22:55.114 --> 01:22:58.734
So, sorry, I'm just centering myself on where you come from a little bit.

01:22:59.164 --> 01:23:08.494
So you kind of secured this gal while you're in your like fourth college, uh, tour of some sort, you know, bouncing around.

01:23:08.734 --> 01:23:09.034
Yeah.

01:23:09.125 --> 01:23:13.585
But knowing you wanted to be an engineer and that sounds like the kind of school that would have a good engineering program.

01:23:13.595 --> 01:23:13.965
Yeah.

01:23:14.380 --> 01:23:15.479
Tech was really good.

01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:22.369
Um, I wasn't sure if I was going to go to A& M or, uh, UT or tech, but tech was really good.

01:23:22.460 --> 01:23:24.539
Uh, and I got to work in the machine shop there.

01:23:24.539 --> 01:23:26.149
I was in the mechanical engineering department.

01:23:26.609 --> 01:23:29.789
Uh, there the, the professors also teach classes, which is nice.

01:23:29.789 --> 01:23:32.319
It's not just grads, grad students teaching classes.

01:23:32.720 --> 01:23:34.859
So I had some really good professors who were there to teach.

01:23:34.859 --> 01:23:35.880
They wanted to be there.

01:23:35.899 --> 01:23:36.479
They loved it.

01:23:36.479 --> 01:23:37.569
Smaller classes.

01:23:38.675 --> 01:23:42.244
I got to, I was part of ASME student organization.

01:23:42.244 --> 01:23:44.614
I got to design my own, um, competitions.

01:23:44.614 --> 01:23:50.085
We did a trebuchet building competitions and so yeah, it was a good time.

01:23:50.104 --> 01:23:54.784
I enjoyed the time at tech and, um, they did a great job of job placement.

01:23:55.284 --> 01:24:00.944
And so I had four different internships or co ops just in totally different industries.

01:24:00.944 --> 01:24:02.805
I worked for BNSF railways.

01:24:02.835 --> 01:24:05.354
I worked for a chemical company in Iowa.

01:24:05.729 --> 01:24:10.010
I had an internship for Exxon and then an internship with FMC.

01:24:10.020 --> 01:24:14.520
They build the subsea technology for oil production.

01:24:14.520 --> 01:24:18.710
What a fascinating like set of opportunities for a young person.

01:24:18.760 --> 01:24:19.359
Absolutely.

01:24:19.380 --> 01:24:23.680
We, Katie and I, we got married and then we immediately moved to Houston, just the two of us.

01:24:23.720 --> 01:24:28.649
And I worked this internship where I was deconstructing subsea trees.

01:24:28.840 --> 01:24:31.369
I, I'd have to show up to work at four in the morning.

01:24:31.380 --> 01:24:37.814
We worked from four until one, I think, because That was the nice time of day to be working outside in Houston.

01:24:38.444 --> 01:24:38.835
Yeah.

01:24:39.604 --> 01:24:40.005
Yeah.

01:24:40.225 --> 01:24:40.734
Interesting.

01:24:41.095 --> 01:24:46.305
Well, it feels like we've kind of come full circle, almost back to where your career started and evolved.

01:24:46.305 --> 01:24:51.965
And so, um, if you're comfortable, don't need a potty break, we can jump right into the Faith Family Politics segment.

01:25:35.329 --> 01:25:36.060
Yeah, let's do it.

01:25:36.140 --> 01:25:40.140
Uh, let's talk about family first.

01:25:40.720 --> 01:25:53.430
Um, Talk to me about your dad in particular, it seems like, uh, driving force probably like in your family life tree, obviously the revenue generator and stuff like that.

01:25:53.729 --> 01:25:54.479
What was he like?

01:25:54.930 --> 01:25:58.770
Uh, well, I mean, he's, he's, he's an engineer, right?

01:25:58.770 --> 01:26:00.079
And he loves his job.

01:26:00.130 --> 01:26:00.989
Was he a manager?

01:26:01.489 --> 01:26:05.358
Yeah, he got into management, uh, and now he owns his own business.

01:26:05.358 --> 01:26:06.925
So he retired from BP.

01:26:07.305 --> 01:26:11.675
Uh, he had moved around to a couple of different oil companies through acquisitions and different jobs.

01:26:11.715 --> 01:26:19.104
Um, but yeah, he got into senior management and, um, then started his own company and he's doing Doing, like, consulting in this space or something?

01:26:19.114 --> 01:26:22.625
Engineering, well, it's an EPC, so Engineering, Procurement, and Construction.

01:26:22.645 --> 01:26:22.925
Hmm.

01:26:22.944 --> 01:26:27.005
So they design and build the production facilities down in West Texas.

01:26:27.005 --> 01:26:27.465
Interesting.

01:26:27.515 --> 01:26:27.614
Yeah.

01:26:27.835 --> 01:26:28.475
So they do a ton of work.

01:26:28.475 --> 01:26:30.274
It's crazy how it's still rocking down there.

01:26:30.375 --> 01:26:30.675
Oh, yeah.

01:26:30.694 --> 01:26:35.305
I guess Frack has basically recycled the It's turned it into What was getting to be a guest.

01:26:35.444 --> 01:26:35.925
field.

01:26:36.135 --> 01:26:38.585
It's turned it into a manufacturing process.

01:26:38.604 --> 01:26:39.194
Yeah.

01:26:39.404 --> 01:26:39.835
Yeah.

01:26:39.854 --> 01:26:40.234
It's less.

01:26:40.234 --> 01:26:40.454
Yeah.

01:26:40.454 --> 01:26:42.045
There's less wildcatting anymore.

01:26:42.045 --> 01:26:43.515
You just got to go down there and get it.

01:26:43.734 --> 01:26:44.114
Yeah.

01:26:44.225 --> 01:26:44.385
Yeah.

01:26:44.385 --> 01:26:45.265
That's an interesting thing.

01:26:45.395 --> 01:26:45.824
It is.

01:26:45.914 --> 01:26:47.005
Um, how about your mama?

01:26:47.395 --> 01:26:50.354
Uh, so she was the, the educator, right?

01:26:50.364 --> 01:26:51.845
She, she didn't have a job.

01:26:51.914 --> 01:26:57.125
Uh, once they started having kids, I don't think she had another job until we were all gone.

01:26:57.204 --> 01:26:57.335
Yeah.

01:26:57.689 --> 01:26:57.960
Yeah.

01:26:58.029 --> 01:26:59.630
Uh, so she was always home.

01:26:59.680 --> 01:27:00.689
Was she good at that?

01:27:00.689 --> 01:27:07.170
Like she was just natural curious and things about, yeah, you know, they raised us to be independent and it worked.

01:27:07.590 --> 01:27:14.489
And, uh, but also to be, uh, you know, free thinking, come to our own conclusions, read for ourselves.

01:27:14.619 --> 01:27:14.899
Yeah.

01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:19.069
Uh, so there's a lot of freedom and autonomy growing up, which was really cool.

01:27:19.510 --> 01:27:23.899
Um, and yeah, they work together now in, in this business.

01:27:24.520 --> 01:27:27.020
It seems to me that, uh, you're.

01:27:27.710 --> 01:27:36.529
Wife, then, uh, crush, uh, when you were 15, has been a significant, uh, branch in your road.

01:27:36.539 --> 01:27:39.550
Do you want to talk about why she was so impactful to you?

01:27:39.840 --> 01:27:40.060
Sure.

01:27:40.060 --> 01:27:45.520
Even, you know, cause you were, you spent a long time apart between 15 and 19 when you really got together.

01:27:45.590 --> 01:27:46.010
Yeah.

01:27:46.029 --> 01:27:50.789
But now we've been together in our lives longer than we've been apart.

01:27:50.989 --> 01:27:51.239
Sure.

01:27:51.470 --> 01:27:51.840
Right.

01:27:52.319 --> 01:27:57.439
Um, so yeah, she's, she's, um, Why did she want that?

01:27:57.869 --> 01:27:58.670
First question.

01:27:58.789 --> 01:27:59.670
Why did she want what?

01:27:59.680 --> 01:28:01.479
Why did she want that togetherness?

01:28:01.760 --> 01:28:02.449
Oh, I don't know.

01:28:02.449 --> 01:28:11.479
Like, cause she was this charismatic, uh, person that was very intuitive and drawing, and you were kind of this nerdy engineer that's trying to figure out how people work.

01:28:11.909 --> 01:28:16.850
I don't know how we ended up together, other than proximity, but I'm really glad that we did.

01:28:16.920 --> 01:28:18.100
Glad for the proximity.

01:28:18.159 --> 01:28:19.050
Absolutely.

01:28:19.090 --> 01:28:23.430
Like, it was, it was a gift, the fact that we ended up right next to each other.

01:28:23.805 --> 01:28:31.555
Um, and the fact that we've been together for, we've been married now 18 years and it, it just feels like we've grown together through all of that.

01:28:31.564 --> 01:28:31.845
Yeah.

01:28:32.024 --> 01:28:36.274
Um, cause we're very different people than we were when we were 15, right?

01:28:36.274 --> 01:28:37.194
Like everybody is.

01:28:37.194 --> 01:28:38.935
That's something that's really interesting.

01:28:38.994 --> 01:28:44.774
My wife and I celebrated 20 years last year, 21 coming soon and like recognizing that.

01:28:45.614 --> 01:28:49.465
I'm married to a completely different person now than I was 20 years ago.

01:28:49.465 --> 01:28:50.135
And you still want to be.

01:28:50.135 --> 01:28:51.295
Not completely different.

01:28:51.335 --> 01:28:51.545
No.

01:28:51.545 --> 01:28:54.505
There's still a lot of commonality, but there's chapters.

01:28:54.524 --> 01:28:54.835
Yeah.

01:28:54.835 --> 01:28:56.845
You know, and yeah, regardless.

01:28:56.854 --> 01:29:00.965
And we love each other for who we are now, not necessarily for who we were in the past.

01:29:01.005 --> 01:29:01.335
Yeah.

01:29:01.715 --> 01:29:03.604
And for who you were in the past.

01:29:03.625 --> 01:29:05.734
Like there's, there's grace around that as well.

01:29:05.805 --> 01:29:08.055
I think, um, there was probably a bit of.

01:29:08.604 --> 01:29:08.944
I don't know.

01:29:08.944 --> 01:29:10.944
We, we both found what we needed in each other.

01:29:10.994 --> 01:29:14.555
I think she wanted a bit of adventure and I would kind of do whatever I wanted.

01:29:14.555 --> 01:29:35.725
You were kind of too, I don't want to say too smart because that's like a judgment almost kind of thing, but you were eager to do something bigger and more and different than just, you know, working in some of the oil fields as a roughneck and then buying a house and having some kids and doing the thing.

01:29:35.774 --> 01:29:38.204
There's always been more that I've wanted.

01:29:38.465 --> 01:29:40.255
And she's complete opposite.

01:29:40.284 --> 01:29:44.645
She is present, she is grounded, she is content, and she always has been.

01:29:44.645 --> 01:29:48.984
Eager for security, and what I think I'm probably more eager for security than she is.

01:29:49.175 --> 01:29:54.305
Um, but, no, I think we balance each other out really well, and we're both growing in that.

01:29:54.539 --> 01:29:56.180
Even now, right?

01:29:56.180 --> 01:29:59.460
Where I'm trying to learn how to be more present, be more grounded.

01:29:59.539 --> 01:30:01.750
I mean, I've got an 11 year old and a nine year old.

01:30:01.750 --> 01:30:03.880
I want to be, be around as a dad.

01:30:04.010 --> 01:30:09.170
So how did you, um, how did the two of you find your way to Northern Colorado?

01:30:09.689 --> 01:30:15.750
Yeah, so we moved, you know, I took the first job with Exxon because I wanted, we both wanted to move internationally.

01:30:16.300 --> 01:30:20.279
Um, and so I took the global projects position so that maybe we could.

01:30:20.289 --> 01:30:21.069
Yeah, check that out.

01:30:22.159 --> 01:30:31.979
What I learned was they were taking, they were repatriating everyone back to their home countries and kind of taking advantage of new engineers to just send them on business trips.

01:30:32.079 --> 01:30:32.350
Yeah.

01:30:33.420 --> 01:30:35.770
Which I'm, I'm really grateful for the experience.

01:30:35.770 --> 01:30:41.960
I mean, I've traveled the world with Exxon and worked on four different continents and got, Yeah, no complaints.

01:30:41.970 --> 01:30:42.359
No complaints.

01:30:42.369 --> 01:30:44.159
And not what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.

01:30:44.180 --> 01:30:44.920
Exactly.

01:30:45.020 --> 01:30:48.810
Um, but we wanted to live international and I was just being sent on long assignments.

01:30:48.810 --> 01:30:51.529
I was in South Korea for four months.

01:30:51.670 --> 01:30:51.880
Right.

01:30:51.909 --> 01:30:56.789
Um, what was really cool was they, they flew her out and she got to be in South Korea with me.

01:30:56.949 --> 01:30:57.239
Right.

01:30:57.250 --> 01:30:59.399
Instead of them flying me home, they flew her back.

01:30:59.760 --> 01:31:06.819
Um, but then once, uh, she was pregnant with our first and we started growing the family, it was like, I wanted to be home at night.

01:31:07.250 --> 01:31:10.380
Uh, I would be gone for weeks at a time and I didn't want to do that.

01:31:11.375 --> 01:31:13.654
And so I looked for, that was it.

01:31:13.685 --> 01:31:15.045
I just looked for another job.

01:31:15.104 --> 01:31:19.609
Um, And the best oil field to work in that I wanted to live in was Colorado.

01:31:19.720 --> 01:31:20.100
Okay.

01:31:20.229 --> 01:31:20.479
Yeah.

01:31:20.739 --> 01:31:24.420
The other choices were, uh, South Dakota and West Texas and like, I've done that.

01:31:24.420 --> 01:31:25.390
Don't do that again.

01:31:26.210 --> 01:31:33.550
Um, and we've, it's always felt ever since we've moved here, it's felt like home and we really enjoyed being here.

01:31:33.569 --> 01:31:39.300
And I worked for an oil company up here for four years or so before striking out on my own.

01:31:39.340 --> 01:31:49.979
And even when I You're like, well, I'm not moving back to Texas to do the stuff I've been doing, and so I guess I gotta figure out Unfortunately, travel kicked back in.

01:31:50.020 --> 01:31:50.649
How to stay here.

01:31:50.659 --> 01:31:54.100
Yeah, but what, uh, so then I was traveling more than I wanted to.

01:31:54.100 --> 01:31:56.170
Again, I wasn't home as much as I wanted to be.

01:31:56.189 --> 01:31:59.149
And so, entrepreneurship was kind of First season, yeah.

01:31:59.149 --> 01:31:59.729
Yeah.

01:31:59.729 --> 01:32:00.560
I wouldn't change it.

01:32:00.850 --> 01:32:01.979
I wouldn't be here otherwise.

01:32:02.079 --> 01:32:02.979
Right, right.

01:32:03.119 --> 01:32:04.970
Yeah, I've said that before.

01:32:04.970 --> 01:32:06.770
Uh, like, no remorse.

01:32:06.810 --> 01:32:07.159
Right.

01:32:07.250 --> 01:32:10.770
At the path I've traveled, but also, like, I don't want to go back there.

01:32:10.779 --> 01:32:11.590
Yeah, yeah.

01:32:11.880 --> 01:32:16.199
And in hindsight, and this absolutely influences my coaching, I recognize that I quit both of them.

01:32:16.199 --> 01:32:21.515
I really Comfortable and good corporate jobs when I had a nine month old baby at home.

01:32:23.045 --> 01:32:26.074
So I wasn't sleeping well, I was re evaluating life.

01:32:27.034 --> 01:32:29.335
May not have been in a proper mental state to make those decisions.

01:32:29.335 --> 01:32:29.994
No, definitely not.

01:32:30.034 --> 01:32:30.744
Definitely not.

01:32:30.774 --> 01:32:33.354
And so that certainly comes into play when I'm working with folks.

01:32:33.354 --> 01:32:33.654
It's like.

01:32:34.579 --> 01:32:35.130
Do you have kids at home?

01:32:35.479 --> 01:32:36.609
Yeah, what's going on right now?

01:32:36.609 --> 01:32:38.640
How's your, yeah, sorry.

01:32:38.640 --> 01:32:39.109
That's funny.

01:32:39.670 --> 01:32:44.229
Um, uh, I feel like, oh, we always do one word descriptions.

01:32:44.250 --> 01:32:46.789
They're not always, but often of your children.

01:32:47.119 --> 01:32:50.649
Oh, would you care to take that venture on and talk a little bit more about them?

01:32:51.569 --> 01:32:52.270
Yeah.

01:32:52.350 --> 01:32:59.069
Um, I know one word is pretty hard, but then you can, you can, you can hyphen if you need to, but also you can carry on.

01:32:59.100 --> 01:33:00.250
It's a good challenge.

01:33:00.279 --> 01:33:03.069
I mean, I certainly have, they're, they're two very different kids.

01:33:03.539 --> 01:33:04.810
Um, Hmm.

01:33:06.664 --> 01:33:12.125
I think for my, my oldest Bonham, uh, like the drummer, John Bonham.

01:33:12.135 --> 01:33:12.585
Yeah.

01:33:12.645 --> 01:33:13.024
Yeah.

01:33:13.454 --> 01:33:17.994
Um, I was thinking, I was thinking that, but I was also thinking, what's that guy?

01:33:18.185 --> 01:33:19.364
Oh, wait, it's Bonhoeffer.

01:33:19.435 --> 01:33:20.835
Oh, not him.

01:33:21.034 --> 01:33:21.484
Different.

01:33:21.694 --> 01:33:22.074
Different.

01:33:22.204 --> 01:33:26.654
Also very, uh, impressive person as well.

01:33:26.694 --> 01:33:26.944
Yeah.

01:33:27.095 --> 01:33:27.295
Yeah.

01:33:27.824 --> 01:33:34.984
Um, as he's getting older, uh, you start to see more of their personality.

01:33:35.045 --> 01:33:36.414
Uh, so for him, I'd say.

01:33:36.930 --> 01:33:37.470
Capable.

01:33:37.649 --> 01:33:38.369
And how old is he?

01:33:38.380 --> 01:33:38.939
Eleven.

01:33:39.210 --> 01:33:39.630
Okay.

01:33:39.939 --> 01:33:40.109
Yeah.

01:33:40.130 --> 01:33:40.420
Wow.

01:33:40.500 --> 01:33:43.159
That's a, that's a big word for an 11 year old to carry around.

01:33:43.630 --> 01:33:44.210
That's pretty cool.

01:33:44.369 --> 01:33:44.590
Yeah.

01:33:44.590 --> 01:33:49.189
It's one I need to remind myself of, that he's capable and I can let go of some things for him.

01:33:49.189 --> 01:33:49.390
Yeah.

01:33:49.390 --> 01:33:49.659
Yeah.

01:33:49.710 --> 01:33:50.550
You can just own this.

01:33:50.569 --> 01:33:53.710
Instead of me telling you to do stuff, you can just own this category kind of thing.

01:33:54.050 --> 01:33:54.609
Yeah.

01:33:54.680 --> 01:33:55.579
And then Soren.

01:33:55.859 --> 01:33:56.859
Soren is our youngest.

01:33:56.859 --> 01:33:57.420
He's nine.

01:33:57.939 --> 01:34:00.609
Um, what's one word for Soren?

01:34:03.130 --> 01:34:07.390
Um, and maybe it's, so the, his name means bright.

01:34:08.274 --> 01:34:08.694
Okay.

01:34:08.895 --> 01:34:10.095
And that's a good word for him.

01:34:10.734 --> 01:34:10.965
Yeah.

01:34:11.095 --> 01:34:11.435
Yeah.

01:34:11.564 --> 01:34:13.225
Like he's, he's a ball of energy.

01:34:13.494 --> 01:34:18.305
Both intelligence, but also energy and just draw, illumination kind of.

01:34:18.364 --> 01:34:19.135
Yeah, yeah.

01:34:19.135 --> 01:34:20.180
Some people are bright lights.

01:34:20.180 --> 01:34:21.225
He lights up a place.

01:34:21.225 --> 01:34:21.814
Yeah, yeah.

01:34:21.914 --> 01:34:22.795
And uh, yeah.

01:34:22.984 --> 01:34:23.034
For sure.

01:34:23.034 --> 01:34:25.215
Intelligent, um, and very active.

01:34:25.595 --> 01:34:25.854
Yeah.

01:34:26.064 --> 01:34:26.364
I dig it.

01:34:26.564 --> 01:34:26.704
Yeah.

01:34:27.015 --> 01:34:29.835
Um, well I think we covered family pretty well there.

01:34:29.835 --> 01:34:32.755
Unless there's anything else you feel like you want to make sure you pull in.

01:34:32.845 --> 01:34:33.444
No, not necessarily.

01:34:33.444 --> 01:34:34.074
Um.

01:34:34.694 --> 01:34:36.375
Faith or politics?

01:34:37.234 --> 01:34:38.234
Which, where do you want to start?

01:34:38.265 --> 01:34:41.404
I'm the host, I know, but Alright, let's talk faith.

01:34:41.824 --> 01:35:00.484
Uh, I'm guessing, I don't know, I'm guessing West Texas is still like Baptist land mostly, kind of the Bible Belt South, but maybe it's a little bit more diverse because it's starting to come over into like New Mexico, Arizona, where it's a little bit There's a lot of Catholicism and influenced by a lot of different factors.

01:35:00.484 --> 01:35:00.755
Right.

01:35:00.784 --> 01:35:02.034
Definitely Christian.

01:35:02.095 --> 01:35:09.005
Uh, you know, that's my, my faith center, um, has been, is always, has been, hasn't really been doubted.

01:35:09.524 --> 01:35:10.895
Um, I mean, doubt.

01:35:10.914 --> 01:35:11.545
Absolutely.

01:35:11.774 --> 01:35:13.015
That's part of the Christian journey.

01:35:13.034 --> 01:35:14.064
Healthy questioning.

01:35:14.064 --> 01:35:15.064
All right.

01:35:15.064 --> 01:35:23.545
And part of the, uh, the, the, my own experience, you know, moving around and living in small towns, I didn't grow up in one church.

01:35:24.055 --> 01:35:25.104
So, Hmm.

01:35:25.500 --> 01:35:29.210
Early childhood Lutheran Church, Lutheran Church in Hobbs, New Mexico.

01:35:29.239 --> 01:35:31.649
I didn't really realize there was Lutherans down there.

01:35:31.649 --> 01:35:32.510
There were 30 of us.

01:35:34.760 --> 01:35:35.119
It was a small church.

01:35:35.119 --> 01:35:36.819
I'm from North Dakota where the Lutherans are thick.

01:35:36.989 --> 01:35:39.029
But I didn't realize there was any in Texas to speak of.

01:35:39.039 --> 01:35:44.180
And my dad's side of the family, they're from like Minnesota area.

01:35:44.439 --> 01:35:45.399
And so that kind of carried down.

01:35:46.255 --> 01:35:53.645
Anyway, that, that sarcasm and the inability to carry a tone, uh, yeah, that was, that was church for me.

01:35:53.694 --> 01:35:53.994
Yes.

01:35:54.284 --> 01:35:58.284
Love you, all of Jill's family that I go to church with occasionally in Minnesota with you.

01:35:58.444 --> 01:35:58.725
Yeah.

01:35:59.015 --> 01:36:03.395
And then, um, moved to a small town, Denver city, and there's no Lutheran church there.

01:36:03.404 --> 01:36:04.904
And so it was where are my friends at?

01:36:04.965 --> 01:36:07.484
And so I went to a Baptist church to be part of the youth group.

01:36:07.965 --> 01:36:14.114
And then when I started dating Katie, her family grew up Church of Christ and I started attending with her.

01:36:14.159 --> 01:36:14.579
Okay.

01:36:14.729 --> 01:36:21.659
And, um, so I don't really know the significance like Church of Christ is, where do they slide in?

01:36:21.694 --> 01:36:23.399
What, what are they a spinoff of?

01:36:23.789 --> 01:36:27.350
The ones that I'm familiar with, you know, I don't know the church history.

01:36:27.350 --> 01:36:32.750
I'm not as, as a, uh, historical buff as most Church of Cri Christ.

01:36:32.750 --> 01:36:35.060
People seem to be They all know these questions better than me.

01:36:35.180 --> 01:36:35.479
Alright.

01:36:35.479 --> 01:36:36.439
I haven't been in it my whole life.

01:36:36.439 --> 01:36:37.010
You came in late?

01:36:37.039 --> 01:36:37.640
Yeah, I came in late.

01:36:38.210 --> 01:36:45.890
Um, and I don't know you, the funny thing about church is it's, it's you, you, you kind of pick up.

01:36:46.505 --> 01:36:48.725
Um, preferences, personal preferences.

01:36:49.154 --> 01:36:52.475
What do you like out of worship style?

01:36:52.475 --> 01:36:59.125
And for me, having moved around to so many churches, I feel like I I've gotten a better understanding of the core.

01:36:59.465 --> 01:36:59.795
Yeah.

01:36:59.864 --> 01:37:03.645
And well, even when you were in Korea and yeah, yeah.

01:37:03.845 --> 01:37:08.824
And, and attending a small church in Korea made up of a bunch of Aggies, right.

01:37:09.114 --> 01:37:11.585
Who invite everyone into this small church that they set up.

01:37:12.045 --> 01:37:30.154
Um, and then when we were in Houston, we went to a, uh, non denominational, a church called Ecclesia, that was really cool, that, that was really impactful, uh, for us, because we're now in this new town, new community, new church, um Sorry, you were making, coming around to a point, and I think I cut you off a little.

01:37:30.154 --> 01:37:36.215
Well, and, and, the, the non denominations, and getting to see all these different had a sampling of all these different things.

01:37:36.215 --> 01:37:42.484
I've had a sampling, and, and so that's given me, I'd say, a, a, a root more on, on the gospel, rather than personal preference.

01:37:42.494 --> 01:37:42.755
Hmm.

01:37:42.755 --> 01:37:42.935
Yeah.

01:37:42.935 --> 01:37:43.274
Yeah.

01:37:43.284 --> 01:37:44.595
How a church organizes.

01:37:44.960 --> 01:37:52.880
So long as you're up front about the things that are valuable to you as a congregation or the things you believe even if They're not central to me.

01:37:52.920 --> 01:37:53.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:37:53.779 --> 01:37:54.970
I can set it aside.

01:37:55.000 --> 01:38:01.189
So the objectives is kind of be more like Jesus and punch your ticket to heaven in some fashion.

01:38:01.189 --> 01:38:02.359
You can't really punch your own ticket.

01:38:02.399 --> 01:38:03.630
That's a race thing.

01:38:03.630 --> 01:38:04.039
Yeah.

01:38:04.039 --> 01:38:04.949
Organize.

01:38:05.279 --> 01:38:08.590
That's where we're talking about the differences and all these and measure.

01:38:09.229 --> 01:38:09.430
Yeah.

01:38:09.430 --> 01:38:09.779
Anyway.

01:38:09.979 --> 01:38:10.159
Yeah.

01:38:10.210 --> 01:38:11.449
It's, it's interesting.

01:38:11.460 --> 01:38:18.460
Like I mentioned earlier that I had these couple of Scots on last night and then Scotland, it's like the church of Scotland, which is like.

01:38:19.279 --> 01:38:20.970
Church of England, but not those fuckers.

01:38:21.010 --> 01:38:21.380
Yeah.

01:38:21.529 --> 01:38:23.350
Um, and then, or it's Catholic.

01:38:23.489 --> 01:38:23.699
Right.

01:38:23.710 --> 01:38:32.060
Because the Catholics pushed their way into most everything around that time, but there was always this like, the 40 percenters that were like, well, screw you guys.

01:38:32.069 --> 01:38:32.090
Yeah.

01:38:33.560 --> 01:38:35.729
Well, and you're picking up on some thing, themes.

01:38:35.819 --> 01:38:37.140
Um, I'm very independent.

01:38:37.170 --> 01:38:38.770
I don't like being told what to do.

01:38:38.800 --> 01:38:39.100
Yeah.

01:38:39.149 --> 01:38:40.090
Um, What to think.

01:38:40.109 --> 01:38:40.810
What to think.

01:38:40.850 --> 01:38:45.779
I'm going to come up with, um, I want to read the, read about something and come up with my own opinion of it.

01:38:45.800 --> 01:38:46.090
Yeah.

01:38:46.420 --> 01:38:53.145
And, uh, so anytime, A church is too restrictive around methodology or legalism.

01:38:53.145 --> 01:38:55.185
I'm like, okay, that's not my thing.

01:38:55.354 --> 01:38:55.795
Fair enough.

01:38:56.414 --> 01:38:56.725
Yeah.

01:38:56.824 --> 01:39:04.305
And so, like, coming around the full circle to today, where do you guys attend a Yeah, we're at a church called The Town.

01:39:04.515 --> 01:39:04.984
The Town.

01:39:05.015 --> 01:39:05.494
Yeah.

01:39:05.534 --> 01:39:06.265
The Town Church.

01:39:06.274 --> 01:39:06.805
The Town Church.

01:39:08.055 --> 01:39:08.664
By Safeway?

01:39:09.175 --> 01:39:09.454
No.

01:39:09.574 --> 01:39:12.645
Uh, it's on Timberline and Harmony in the old Harmony School.

01:39:12.704 --> 01:39:13.854
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:39:13.854 --> 01:39:13.935
Yeah.

01:39:13.935 --> 01:39:14.185
Yeah.

01:39:14.185 --> 01:39:14.805
Okay, yep.

01:39:14.835 --> 01:39:16.654
Um, we've been there about two and a half years.

01:39:17.024 --> 01:39:20.824
And, uh, you know, when we first attended I met the pastor from that church.

01:39:20.824 --> 01:39:21.395
What's his name?

01:39:21.404 --> 01:39:22.314
Vince Black.

01:39:22.375 --> 01:39:23.364
Okay, yes.

01:39:23.375 --> 01:39:23.555
Yeah.

01:39:24.604 --> 01:39:25.755
He might not have been the head pastor.

01:39:25.755 --> 01:39:26.645
I think he was a junior.

01:39:26.765 --> 01:39:27.454
But has he been around?

01:39:27.494 --> 01:39:28.310
Or is it his church?

01:39:28.310 --> 01:39:29.475
Yeah, he planted it.

01:39:29.524 --> 01:39:30.404
Okay, okay.

01:39:30.604 --> 01:39:31.685
Then I met him, I guess.

01:39:31.765 --> 01:39:38.435
Uh, I didn't recognize his name, but I've Or maybe I've met one of his And then Eric, um, Reeves.

01:39:38.789 --> 01:39:40.430
Yes, I've met that young man.

01:39:40.460 --> 01:39:40.750
Yeah.

01:39:41.020 --> 01:39:41.279
Yeah.

01:39:41.390 --> 01:39:41.770
Okay.

01:39:42.060 --> 01:39:44.430
So they're, they're the two preaching pastors.

01:39:44.439 --> 01:39:45.229
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:39:45.310 --> 01:39:45.979
Okay, cool.

01:39:45.979 --> 01:39:50.329
But, um, independent.

01:39:50.329 --> 01:39:55.439
Um, you know, but what I like, and this is probably my organizational, uh, consultant coming out.

01:39:55.439 --> 01:39:59.619
What I like is they're, they're clear about what's important to them and how they're going to organize.

01:40:00.005 --> 01:40:01.234
and what it means to be a member.

01:40:01.375 --> 01:40:06.895
I'm like, cool, I don't necessarily agree with everything you say, but I can get on board and I won't be divisive.

01:40:06.904 --> 01:40:09.204
I can understand why you would make those choices.

01:40:09.234 --> 01:40:10.215
Yeah, exactly.

01:40:10.225 --> 01:40:15.265
And, um, we were at another church here in town and loved that church, Meadowlark Church of Christ.

01:40:15.265 --> 01:40:21.505
You know, that was a very similar to, uh, where Katie grew up and there's a connection between Denver City and, and here.

01:40:21.524 --> 01:40:24.675
And some of our, our friends from college are there as well.

01:40:25.069 --> 01:40:32.050
Um, they found their way up to Fort Collins and that was a great place for us for, for that eight and a half years that we were there.

01:40:32.090 --> 01:40:32.470
Okay.

01:40:32.529 --> 01:40:33.039
Yeah.

01:40:33.149 --> 01:40:33.609
Interesting.

01:40:34.060 --> 01:40:35.489
Um, politics.

01:40:36.279 --> 01:40:36.680
Okay.

01:40:38.470 --> 01:40:46.170
Um, so we'll start with, um, should Canada just be one state or should it be like 10 or 11 states?

01:40:46.170 --> 01:40:48.390
Like, is it every province in a territory?

01:40:48.500 --> 01:40:53.595
I think Alaska should be part of Canada and we should just Let them have it themselves.

01:40:54.625 --> 01:40:56.244
Just leave them to their own problems.

01:40:57.095 --> 01:40:57.984
I'm pretty indifferent.

01:40:58.404 --> 01:41:04.055
Yeah, so, and that kind of sums up my political opinions for the most part.

01:41:04.085 --> 01:41:05.274
I'm almost indifferent.

01:41:06.055 --> 01:41:10.895
You just want to navigate the circumstances that are there without trying to necessarily influence it too much.

01:41:11.034 --> 01:41:15.085
Yeah, or, or understand it, necessarily.

01:41:15.085 --> 01:41:15.725
Fair, okay.

01:41:16.314 --> 01:41:24.904
Yeah, that's an interesting, I mean, is that, maybe even almost like a Church of Christ kind of perspective of letting things be like they will be?

01:41:24.935 --> 01:41:25.375
No.

01:41:25.435 --> 01:41:25.765
No.

01:41:25.845 --> 01:41:26.024
No.

01:41:26.505 --> 01:41:37.970
I wouldn't tie this to any of the It's not a faith perspective, because there's, like when you think about a faith perspective, there's like the Calvinists that think things are just going to happen the way they're going to happen, and you might as well just Yeah.

01:41:38.039 --> 01:41:48.970
Just allow for it to happen and then there's kind of a little bit, I don't know what you would call the anti Calvinists or whatever, they're like, well no, if shit's going downhill you should try to like change it.

01:41:49.010 --> 01:41:50.140
You should try to do something.

01:41:50.170 --> 01:41:52.109
I am a you should try to do something person.

01:41:52.119 --> 01:41:52.460
Yeah.

01:41:52.500 --> 01:41:52.739
Yeah.

01:41:52.750 --> 01:41:54.760
God doesn't have a firm set plan.

01:41:54.970 --> 01:41:58.279
He knows what's going to happen, perhaps, but you still got to take action.

01:41:58.585 --> 01:41:58.914
Yeah.

01:41:58.914 --> 01:42:02.238
Otherwise, what the hell are we coaching for and building local think tanks and whatever else?

01:42:02.238 --> 01:42:05.005
Things are set in motion, but you still have a role to play in it.

01:42:05.015 --> 01:42:05.994
You get to choose.

01:42:06.104 --> 01:42:06.324
Okay.

01:42:06.335 --> 01:42:10.614
Uh, you get to choose the role you're going to play and, and how you show up every day feeds into that.

01:42:10.774 --> 01:42:21.234
And that's more, but for you especially, that's more on the, the faith and personal interaction side than it is on reading the headlines on Twitter and everything else.

01:42:21.890 --> 01:42:23.090
Cause we're in the politics section now.

01:42:23.100 --> 01:42:23.470
Right.

01:42:23.619 --> 01:42:24.149
Politics.

01:42:24.460 --> 01:42:29.189
Yeah, um, I, uh, my perspective of, uh, I love studying politics.

01:42:29.510 --> 01:42:32.510
Um, I don't necessarily always enjoy current affairs.

01:42:32.859 --> 01:42:33.449
Yeah, fair.

01:42:33.470 --> 01:42:33.770
Right?

01:42:34.149 --> 01:42:39.689
Um, I really like reading things where I have no idea, after reading the thing, how that person voted.

01:42:40.109 --> 01:42:40.359
Hmm.

01:42:40.689 --> 01:42:40.970
Right.

01:42:41.300 --> 01:42:47.640
I just had a guest on my podcast recently, uh, Cole Stralow, who's created a newsletter called The Flyover.

01:42:47.770 --> 01:42:49.060
Oh yeah, I heard about that.

01:42:49.189 --> 01:42:49.449
Oh really?

01:42:49.449 --> 01:42:50.409
Yeah, I haven't seen it yet.

01:42:50.409 --> 01:42:50.729
Okay.

01:42:50.729 --> 01:42:51.020
Is it good?

01:42:51.369 --> 01:43:01.460
Yeah, it was a really good podcast and what he's doing is really interesting because it's like they're very intentional to not Emotionalize the facts.

01:43:01.470 --> 01:43:02.039
Yeah.

01:43:02.039 --> 01:43:04.371
Yeah, you know hard to do.

01:43:04.371 --> 01:43:10.189
Yeah Exactly and in this day and age, it's like you you get more traction for putting emotion into it, right?

01:43:10.340 --> 01:43:26.310
Right, right Yeah, and then that's partly why they've gotten and they're you know Cole and most of the team and most of the structure is What I would call moderate, conservative, libertarian, you know, not Republicans because they're all too free thinking for that.

01:43:26.520 --> 01:43:27.069
Yeah, yeah.

01:43:27.840 --> 01:43:29.500
So let's talk about, can we talk about that?

01:43:29.500 --> 01:43:30.029
Yeah, sure.

01:43:30.050 --> 01:43:33.420
Like, I feel like the, the change.

01:43:34.220 --> 01:43:35.750
In the Republican party.

01:43:35.750 --> 01:43:37.770
Like I was a big time Trump skeptic.

01:43:37.800 --> 01:43:46.060
I voted for Trump finally on the third time around I voted for Gary Johnson the first time I voted for Kanye the second time Kanye West.

01:43:46.239 --> 01:43:46.569
Yes.

01:43:47.689 --> 01:43:53.739
And the third time around, I was like, you know, I'm starting to believe that this guy actually really cares a lot about this country.

01:43:53.880 --> 01:43:59.090
And he sees the part of me, part of America that the libertarian in me has noticed since.

01:43:59.760 --> 01:44:00.380
2005.

01:44:00.939 --> 01:44:01.430
Two.

01:44:02.649 --> 01:44:16.979
One, like, like before, like right after the Trump Tower, the, the towers came down, I was like, shit, the freaking authoritarian state they're going to apply to this and the spying they're going to do on Americans and the wars they're going to create over this is going to be terrible.

01:44:17.000 --> 01:44:17.560
Which they did.

01:44:17.630 --> 01:44:18.420
Cause I'm a prophet.

01:44:18.850 --> 01:44:20.420
I don't know if you've noticed that before.

01:44:20.520 --> 01:44:20.979
Nostradamus.

01:44:21.210 --> 01:44:21.779
The local Nostradamus.

01:44:21.779 --> 01:44:23.979
Well, no, no more like the ones they talk about in the Bible.

01:44:23.989 --> 01:44:30.539
Like that definition of somebody that sees things more clearly than other people do and part of why.

01:44:30.854 --> 01:45:04.324
God sets them up with the ability to occasionally see the future is so that the people believe him about the truth now I don't know if you have the same impression of what a prophet does But I think there's modern day prophets and I think I am one Okay, not like one of ten like one of I don't know a half a billion Like people that can kind of see things happening and see things more clearly Anyway, I digress but I could already like I'd literally had a phone call the next day or later that day of 9 11 like That forecasted the Patriot Act, that forecasted Iraq invasion, like all these things.

01:45:04.324 --> 01:45:05.625
It is a gift I do not have.

01:45:05.685 --> 01:45:07.375
I would not say that I'm a prophet.

01:45:07.664 --> 01:45:10.435
And so that's why I pay more attention to politics than others.

01:45:10.435 --> 01:45:11.104
Yeah, yeah.

01:45:11.135 --> 01:45:34.489
And so, especially as Trump was tried to be killed probably by the existing government, especially as people like What's her name the the Hawaii girl and RFK jr came to the Republican platform and they were kind of Democratic outcast because they believe too much in free speech and Constitutions and stuff.

01:45:35.270 --> 01:45:41.840
I came more and more on the Trump side, although I didn't Well, going from Kanye West to Trump is not that huge of a leap.

01:45:41.850 --> 01:45:45.310
So you didn't have to make that big, you didn't have to make too big of a leap.

01:45:45.319 --> 01:45:47.810
But for me, that was part of the transition.

01:45:47.810 --> 01:45:57.659
It was, I was like, I'm actually starting to believe that this guy actually cares more about the country and the principles of our founding than himself and getting rich off of this position.

01:45:58.270 --> 01:46:01.619
And so anyway, I can, you can share with me how you resonate with that.

01:46:01.619 --> 01:46:14.904
But, uh, I'm curious as to, um, I guess non political perspectives in that because I've always been political just more cynical like if you're not cynical You're not paying enough attention.

01:46:14.904 --> 01:46:16.324
It's kind of my philosophy.

01:46:16.484 --> 01:46:21.435
Yeah, and you know kind of what we've talked about earlier I'm probably more pragmatic.

01:46:21.435 --> 01:46:23.095
It's like, all right, what's the current situation?

01:46:23.095 --> 01:46:24.215
What what can we do with this?

01:46:24.234 --> 01:46:29.359
Yeah, we're in now, of course, I of course I vote every opportunity I get Right.

01:46:29.359 --> 01:46:31.090
And I try to make an informed decision.

01:46:31.149 --> 01:46:39.630
Um, I look at, I, I'm as independent politically as I am in my faith and my, my career and everything else.

01:46:39.630 --> 01:46:41.010
Like there's a common thread for me.

01:46:41.470 --> 01:46:44.609
Um, I don't like associating with a group.

01:46:44.720 --> 01:46:47.180
I never really have political or otherwise.

01:46:48.154 --> 01:46:54.034
Um, I appreciate the, the Is that why I've never caught any traction with the Loco Think Tank conversation with you?

01:46:54.154 --> 01:46:54.715
What do you mean?

01:46:54.864 --> 01:46:56.625
Well, you're, you're an interesting freethinker.

01:46:56.625 --> 01:46:58.164
You've been navigating this business.

01:46:58.164 --> 01:46:59.895
We do have groups for Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

01:46:59.895 --> 01:47:01.585
solo people and very small teams.

01:47:01.625 --> 01:47:03.475
I did attend, uh, uh, one of the freethinks.

01:47:03.515 --> 01:47:03.744
Oh, you did?

01:47:03.744 --> 01:47:04.135
I loved it.

01:47:04.175 --> 01:47:05.015
Yeah, it was great.

01:47:05.489 --> 01:47:13.119
But yeah, I, I don't in college, I never signed up for the fraternities or the honor societies like, Hey, join the society, pay us 50 bucks.

01:47:13.119 --> 01:47:16.590
I'm like, nah, I'll just, I'll just not do that study.

01:47:17.550 --> 01:47:17.829
Right.

01:47:18.090 --> 01:47:19.550
Um, join this entrepreneur group.

01:47:19.550 --> 01:47:21.180
I recognize the value of groups.

01:47:21.260 --> 01:47:21.930
Um, but yeah.

01:47:22.340 --> 01:47:35.659
I don't, I have a community that I get involved with, but yeah, same with politically, I'm not going to say that I remember growing the first time I voted and this was in West Texas and there was the option for straight ticket.

01:47:36.140 --> 01:47:40.619
It was like, you just circle one box and it does all the deciding for you.

01:47:40.619 --> 01:47:41.489
And I don't like that.

01:47:41.520 --> 01:47:42.090
No, no.

01:47:42.710 --> 01:47:48.720
And so I have a very different perspective politically at the federal level, the state level, the local level.

01:47:48.760 --> 01:47:49.109
Okay.

01:47:50.354 --> 01:47:56.404
The things that I think federal politicians should be focused on, I don't necessarily think local should be focused on.

01:47:56.465 --> 01:47:59.354
Do you think the federal government should be focused on less things?

01:47:59.875 --> 01:48:01.284
Less things than they currently are, or?

01:48:01.284 --> 01:48:07.345
Like, is Doge a good idea to recut some fat from the federal element?

01:48:07.354 --> 01:48:10.125
Oh, I mean, I'm a proponent of lean manufacturing.

01:48:10.125 --> 01:48:11.494
I'm always looking for waste, right?

01:48:11.494 --> 01:48:11.774
Yeah.

01:48:12.095 --> 01:48:12.125
Okay.

01:48:12.154 --> 01:48:19.564
Um, and when you put in place policies and procedures on top of policies and procedures in order to control people's behavior, Yeah.

01:48:19.789 --> 01:48:22.210
Things are going to get outdated really quickly.

01:48:22.220 --> 01:48:22.560
Right, right.

01:48:22.569 --> 01:48:23.779
I mean, management practices.

01:48:23.779 --> 01:48:25.720
Especially as culture changes and stuff like that.

01:48:26.180 --> 01:48:29.579
So, have things been put in place that should no longer be there?

01:48:29.979 --> 01:48:30.529
Absolutely.

01:48:30.529 --> 01:48:35.159
That's the story of any organization, any culture, any government.

01:48:35.180 --> 01:48:38.590
There are things that were put in place that don't need to be there anymore.

01:48:38.619 --> 01:48:39.000
Yeah.

01:48:39.000 --> 01:48:39.680
Right?

01:48:39.680 --> 01:48:41.670
So, I'm a, I don't know.

01:48:42.215 --> 01:48:44.795
I'm an, I'm argumentative.

01:48:44.914 --> 01:48:47.375
I can argue either side of any point.

01:48:47.425 --> 01:48:48.015
I love that.

01:48:48.074 --> 01:48:48.965
Yeah, I can do that too.

01:48:49.005 --> 01:48:51.234
And I actually want my politicians to be argumentative too.

01:48:51.244 --> 01:48:51.604
Yeah.

01:48:51.765 --> 01:48:55.614
If we have a Republican president, I would rather Congress be Democratic.

01:48:55.805 --> 01:49:00.944
If we have a Democrat president, I would rather that the Congress So stalemate is your preferred form of government?

01:49:01.244 --> 01:49:06.095
To some extent, because But if we can agree on something, then it must be important.

01:49:06.095 --> 01:49:06.725
Exactly.

01:49:06.734 --> 01:49:08.435
If we can agree on it, it must be important.

01:49:08.725 --> 01:49:09.755
It doesn't mean it's right.

01:49:10.250 --> 01:49:21.500
And, and this is the system's thinking, uh, for me is it's really hard to predict the impact of our actions, especially when we're talking at the federal level, the U S government is massive.

01:49:21.899 --> 01:49:27.460
And so if we put in place some, some program, um, it might be good for a time.

01:49:27.600 --> 01:49:27.920
Yeah.

01:49:28.250 --> 01:49:33.079
And once you put in place a program, it's really hard to remove down the road at unintended consequences or catastrophic.

01:49:33.079 --> 01:49:33.350
Yeah.

01:49:33.670 --> 01:49:38.140
And so then the, the pragmatist in me is like, all right, this is the current situation we're in.

01:49:38.619 --> 01:49:40.069
Um, what do we do with it?

01:49:40.109 --> 01:49:44.930
What do you think about, uh, this isn't quite politics, but it's kinda, uh, what do you think about DeepSeek?

01:49:45.949 --> 01:49:48.180
Have you seen, noticed that on the current events here?

01:49:48.189 --> 01:49:51.550
The stock market lost like, 8, 6 percent of its value?

01:49:51.779 --> 01:49:55.279
And Nvidia is no longer I'm waiting to see Skeptical?

01:49:55.329 --> 01:49:56.500
Yeah, I'm skeptical.

01:49:57.029 --> 01:50:00.119
It's not changing my investment strategy at all?

01:50:00.170 --> 01:50:00.630
Not yet?

01:50:00.680 --> 01:50:01.529
No, not at all.

01:50:01.560 --> 01:50:12.630
And maybe it's because I got burned because one time I When I first started doing stock trading, like when I was probably 22, um, I bought a company that all the numbers looked good.

01:50:12.680 --> 01:50:16.609
It was some Chinese import business and all of the finances looked good.

01:50:16.609 --> 01:50:19.029
I'd read, um, intelligent investing.

01:50:19.039 --> 01:50:20.550
I was like, all right, I'm checking all the boxes.

01:50:20.550 --> 01:50:21.380
That's your company.

01:50:21.960 --> 01:50:24.880
But like 600 bucks in it.

01:50:24.920 --> 01:50:28.119
And then a week later, news flash fraudulent company.

01:50:28.609 --> 01:50:33.640
So 600 gone to learn a very valuable lesson, which Wait and see.

01:50:33.659 --> 01:50:34.779
Let's see the sauce a little bit.

01:50:35.489 --> 01:50:35.970
Fair enough.

01:50:36.439 --> 01:50:38.420
Um, here's the prize opportunity.

01:50:38.420 --> 01:50:38.979
Oh, okay.

01:50:39.029 --> 01:50:41.520
So, three questions.

01:50:41.710 --> 01:50:46.579
Grab three ping pong balls out there and we're gonna choose together which one of them will be the prize.

01:50:46.810 --> 01:50:47.239
Okay.

01:50:47.479 --> 01:50:48.039
All right.

01:50:48.409 --> 01:50:51.880
So, yeah, we should have a better system with like a ball holder.

01:50:52.369 --> 01:50:57.425
Ava, put ball holder on the list of things to buy.

01:50:58.234 --> 01:51:03.984
We've got 13, 30, and 29.

01:51:04.664 --> 01:51:05.444
That's interesting.

01:51:07.385 --> 01:51:08.354
So, how does this work?

01:51:08.354 --> 01:51:09.354
Do I pick one of the three?

01:51:09.364 --> 01:51:13.364
No, we're going to ask you all three and we're going to decide together which is the winning answer.

01:51:13.744 --> 01:51:15.005
But I have to answer all three?

01:51:15.074 --> 01:51:15.524
Yes.

01:51:15.694 --> 01:51:17.574
Okay, uh, number six.

01:51:19.114 --> 01:51:23.614
If you could only eat one color of food for the rest of your life, what would it be?

01:51:23.904 --> 01:51:24.314
Red.

01:51:25.510 --> 01:51:26.010
Okay?

01:51:26.689 --> 01:51:29.380
Like meat and apples, basically, or what are we talking about here?

01:51:29.899 --> 01:51:30.470
Radishes.

01:51:30.479 --> 01:51:32.119
Some meat, uh, some kimchi.

01:51:32.159 --> 01:51:32.960
I love kimchi.

01:51:33.000 --> 01:51:34.000
That is one thing I've held on to.

01:51:34.000 --> 01:51:35.739
I've made my first batch of kimchi, actually.

01:51:35.739 --> 01:51:36.579
It's in my fridge right now.

01:51:36.619 --> 01:51:38.819
Did you actually bury it in the ground for six months?

01:51:38.829 --> 01:51:44.864
No, but I put it on top of my cupboard for two weeks and watched the bubbles go bloop I've found my one question.

01:51:45.314 --> 01:51:48.904
Kim Chi brand, and it's only at Lucky's, and I will go to Lucky's just for that.

01:51:49.395 --> 01:51:50.494
I, I can't do it.

01:51:50.494 --> 01:51:51.425
It's too expensive.

01:51:51.694 --> 01:51:55.515
Like, so I make my own kombucha and I make my own kimchi now.

01:51:55.515 --> 01:51:56.824
It's pricey, but it's worth it.

01:51:56.875 --> 01:51:57.185
Okay.

01:51:57.185 --> 01:51:57.604
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:51:57.604 --> 01:51:57.875
All right.

01:51:58.114 --> 01:51:58.944
So red.

01:51:59.005 --> 01:51:59.395
Red.

01:51:59.444 --> 01:52:00.534
Red is the answer.

01:52:00.845 --> 01:52:02.744
That could well be, that could well be.

01:52:02.755 --> 01:52:03.725
Strawberries are nice.

01:52:03.725 --> 01:52:04.034
Yeah.

01:52:04.034 --> 01:52:07.385
Cherries, if they're not too ripe, I still qualify as red.

01:52:08.064 --> 01:52:08.685
Red wine.

01:52:09.029 --> 01:52:09.239
Yeah.

01:52:09.310 --> 01:52:09.829
Oh, nice.

01:52:09.850 --> 01:52:10.270
Yes.

01:52:10.630 --> 01:52:10.930
Okay.

01:52:10.979 --> 01:52:18.199
So, um, 13 is what's a book, movie or podcast that's had a significant impact on your life.

01:52:18.279 --> 01:52:18.770
Oh, man.

01:52:19.090 --> 01:52:21.420
Um, just one is just one for you.

01:52:21.420 --> 01:52:22.279
Probably it is.

01:52:22.289 --> 01:52:24.300
There's so many books and it's always the books for me.

01:52:24.340 --> 01:52:33.710
I like to read and think, um, I'll pick a kind of, uh, out there.

01:52:33.750 --> 01:52:40.010
Interesting one that, uh, let was left an impression and that was in cold blood by Truman Capote.

01:52:40.840 --> 01:52:51.430
And I don't know when I read it, uh, but it was the first time that it really got me thinking about ways, it got me thinking about psychology in ways I've never thought about psychology before.

01:52:51.689 --> 01:52:58.890
Right, because here were two guys who committed awful murders, totally unremorseful, and it's just like, yeah, we just did that.

01:52:59.159 --> 01:52:59.439
Yeah.

01:52:59.460 --> 01:53:00.000
Because.

01:53:00.199 --> 01:53:04.939
It's like, oh, whoa, the human brain can work in some really strange ways that I don't understand.

01:53:05.029 --> 01:53:09.710
And, and so that, the way he wrote that and, uh, the movie paired with it was really interesting.

01:53:09.720 --> 01:53:10.159
Well, and.

01:53:11.460 --> 01:53:25.664
Like, you know, to dip it back to the faith conversation, like, if there isn't God You know, then we're just walking meat bags, and if we're just walking meat bags, then why shouldn't I kill you for your bag of popcorn?

01:53:25.704 --> 01:53:27.114
How do you measure morality?

01:53:27.135 --> 01:53:28.125
What, what does that even matter?

01:53:28.125 --> 01:53:29.015
Why do I care?

01:53:29.145 --> 01:53:29.675
Right.

01:53:29.784 --> 01:53:34.045
Yeah, but we could probably spend another hour on that, but we're pushing our two hours already.

01:53:34.045 --> 01:53:40.935
But it's always been those books that, that make me see, uh, another side of, of human behavior and psychology that was not normal to me.

01:53:41.595 --> 01:53:42.965
Another one was Hyperspace.

01:53:43.074 --> 01:53:44.475
So now I threw you, threw out two.

01:53:44.715 --> 01:53:45.015
Two.

01:53:45.255 --> 01:53:49.590
Hyperspace by It's it's a Japanese author and I can't remember.

01:53:49.659 --> 01:53:50.470
I don't know how to pronounce it.

01:53:50.500 --> 01:54:12.515
Okay, I want to give the synopsis what is about quantum physics and It just explored a lot of different ideas about religion and quantum physics and Philosophy and theology it was really well and how quantum physics can actually tie toward like Can we actually influence the will of the universal creator being thing?

01:54:12.875 --> 01:54:14.425
And could he just do that?

01:54:14.555 --> 01:54:20.385
And, and the, the thing that stuck with me and this probably isn't, he probably doesn't write about it at all, but it was from a faith perspective.

01:54:20.694 --> 01:54:26.244
It's like, I can barely understand what he's talking about with it when this, within this realm of science.

01:54:26.244 --> 01:54:29.675
And I believe in a God that is so much more beyond that.

01:54:32.255 --> 01:54:35.335
Can I be okay believing in God that I can't fully understand.

01:54:35.425 --> 01:54:35.704
Yeah.

01:54:35.755 --> 01:54:36.824
And so it really put.

01:54:37.375 --> 01:54:40.604
The perspective, uh, of how much I could know.

01:54:41.090 --> 01:54:41.539
Yeah, yeah.

01:54:41.649 --> 01:54:42.810
Of, of any topic.

01:54:42.869 --> 01:54:43.180
Yeah.

01:54:43.180 --> 01:54:48.029
Not just religion, but how much can one person actually know about even how my brain works?

01:54:48.039 --> 01:54:49.510
Like, now we're getting really meta, but.

01:54:49.520 --> 01:55:06.454
No, but that's one thing I've, so over the last few years I've been listening occasionally to the, the Saint Spiridon, uh, podcast, which is now, uh, Ancient Faith Podcast, I think, or something like that, but it's an Eastern Orthodox, uh, church podcast out of Loveland.

01:55:06.654 --> 01:55:07.064
Okay.

01:55:07.164 --> 01:55:17.425
Um, and just coincidentally, coincidentally, like my good friend from years ago, his, her son is dating the daughter of this pastor of this Eastern Orthodox Church.

01:55:17.454 --> 01:55:17.614
Okay.

01:55:17.895 --> 01:55:33.975
And one of the things I've learned through literally dozens and dozens of episodes of this podcast is that the, from the Eastern Orthodox perspective, Like, we say, like the Protestant church at least would say, you know, God is infinite.

01:55:34.885 --> 01:55:38.305
And, but the Eastern Orthodoxes would say God is not finite.

01:55:38.925 --> 01:55:42.454
Like, they don't even put God into the box of He's infinite.

01:55:42.545 --> 01:55:47.010
They're like, He's not finite, you know, it plays by different rules that we can't even come up with.

01:55:47.090 --> 01:55:47.479
Totally.

01:55:47.770 --> 01:55:48.149
Yeah.

01:55:48.260 --> 01:55:48.770
Yeah.

01:55:48.970 --> 01:55:51.322
And just a different perspective on different things like that.

01:55:51.322 --> 01:55:56.262
And I love learning from other world religions as well, not just Christian theology.

01:55:56.262 --> 01:55:56.710
Yeah, agreed.

01:55:56.710 --> 01:55:57.029
Same.

01:55:57.039 --> 01:55:58.869
Yeah, no, that was part of my own journey.

01:55:58.869 --> 01:56:01.090
It was like, what's this Buddhism thing about?

01:56:01.090 --> 01:56:01.859
What do they think?

01:56:01.859 --> 01:56:10.060
Um, third question, what's been the most surprising thing about running your own business?

01:56:10.350 --> 01:56:10.720
Hmm.

01:56:11.409 --> 01:56:25.869
Um, The psychology of buying, when people buy and why, uh, and that's probably been the most uncomfortable thing for me is getting comfortable with the lack of control in the sales process.

01:56:26.149 --> 01:56:26.460
Yeah.

01:56:26.500 --> 01:56:27.810
And it has to be the right time.

01:56:28.020 --> 01:56:30.779
Um, and, and that's, that's been the most surprising.

01:56:30.789 --> 01:56:39.210
You definitely can't make somebody say yes, you can get more opportunities, but you definitely can't, you can't predict it as much as you think, even sometimes.

01:56:40.835 --> 01:56:47.789
Also with running a, a Coaching business working with large corporations and a coffee business selling to my neighbors, right?

01:56:48.500 --> 01:56:58.369
It is just as difficult to sell a 30 bag of coffee as it is a 30, 000 consulting engagement It can be easier to sell the 30, 000 engagement.

01:56:58.430 --> 01:56:58.670
Yeah.

01:56:58.670 --> 01:56:58.960
Yeah.

01:56:59.420 --> 01:57:09.864
Yeah I mean for sure at local think tank we've struggled to sell the 250 a month membership for the little guys compared to the 1, 200 a month membership for the big guys.

01:57:09.904 --> 01:57:11.595
Yeah, it doesn't make, it doesn't make any sense.

01:57:11.604 --> 01:57:13.574
Someone, someone knows how to do this really well.

01:57:13.965 --> 01:57:17.345
Salespeople, I, I have a much higher appreciation for them than I ever have.

01:57:17.354 --> 01:57:22.114
Okay, we're going to make that question the question to win the coffee gift.

01:57:22.524 --> 01:57:30.895
So the answer is, uh, the psychology of buying behavior is the most surprising thing to you about running a business.

01:57:30.935 --> 01:57:31.234
Absolutely.

01:57:31.664 --> 01:57:35.215
And finally, the loco experience.

01:57:35.895 --> 01:57:40.534
This is the craziest experience of your lifetime that you're willing to share with our listeners.

01:57:41.255 --> 01:57:46.454
And, uh, if you can make your wife blush during this answer, that would be just kidding.

01:57:46.845 --> 01:57:47.555
It's not that crazy.

01:57:47.564 --> 01:57:48.225
Not that crazy.

01:57:48.225 --> 01:57:49.635
Not that kind of crazy anyway.

01:57:51.854 --> 01:57:52.354
No.

01:57:52.774 --> 01:57:54.225
Um, man, I don't know.

01:57:54.225 --> 01:57:59.595
You probably can tell from this, uh, this conversation that I'm not the most exciting person.

01:57:59.595 --> 01:58:01.225
I don't take the biggest risks.

01:58:01.234 --> 01:58:04.164
You're adventurous, but without With reason.

01:58:04.204 --> 01:58:04.824
Yeah, yeah.

01:58:04.885 --> 01:58:06.194
I'm prepared for the adventure.

01:58:06.595 --> 01:58:08.755
Have you had any near death experiences in your lifetime?

01:58:08.965 --> 01:58:11.335
Yes, but uh, plenty.

01:58:11.784 --> 01:58:12.234
Okay.

01:58:12.295 --> 01:58:17.244
But I wouldn't actually, like they were calculated near death experiences, right.

01:58:17.515 --> 01:58:20.005
So, so this, this is probably more, all right.

01:58:20.005 --> 01:58:25.404
High school, uh, college timeframe where I climbed things that I shouldn't climb.

01:58:25.404 --> 01:58:26.095
Structures.

01:58:26.095 --> 01:58:26.125
Okay.

01:58:26.154 --> 01:58:31.345
And, uh, buildings and out in West Texas, you find things to do.

01:58:31.345 --> 01:58:32.635
So you, oil derricks, whatever.

01:58:32.635 --> 01:58:33.715
You go out and climb things.

01:58:34.135 --> 01:58:38.875
Um, I played with a lot of explosives and, and fire as, as a high schooler.

01:58:39.135 --> 01:58:45.914
And, um Cause you had access to dynamite and stuff from the No, you don't need dynamite, just, just hairspray and some oxygen.

01:58:46.234 --> 01:58:46.744
Okay, alright.

01:58:46.744 --> 01:58:49.664
Potato cannons, potato cannons were, were a fun hobby.

01:58:50.135 --> 01:58:50.564
I like it.

01:58:50.564 --> 01:58:52.215
And lucky those didn't explode on me.

01:58:52.444 --> 01:58:52.635
Yeah.

01:58:52.635 --> 01:58:53.875
Doesn't sound that crazy though.

01:58:53.875 --> 01:58:54.324
No, no.

01:58:54.364 --> 01:59:04.140
Probably your craziest experience was Quitting your job like in the circumstance that the first one the first time it might have or the road or maybe going offshore I don't know.

01:59:04.180 --> 01:59:05.649
I did some really big road trips.

01:59:05.720 --> 01:59:12.114
So my wife and I after college I told Exxon I wasn't gonna start my job until September instead of starting in May Okay.

01:59:12.175 --> 01:59:13.675
And we drove to Alaska.

01:59:13.704 --> 01:59:18.805
We spent three, three months, uh, driving and living in a tent and out of our Honda element for Oh wow.

01:59:18.835 --> 01:59:23.130
We spent all the money we had anticipating that we had a job when we got back and, yeah.

01:59:23.135 --> 01:59:26.210
And just to Alaska, you took a road trip from Texas to Alaska?

01:59:26.239 --> 01:59:29.395
Yeah, I was started in West Texas and we drove as far as cold foot Alaska.

01:59:29.574 --> 01:59:29.875
Okay.

01:59:29.875 --> 01:59:31.734
Which is north of the Arctic Circle.

01:59:31.765 --> 01:59:32.185
Wow.

01:59:32.425 --> 01:59:38.435
Yeah, we wanted to go all the way to the Arctic Ocean, but once we got there, we realized the access is all controlled by oil companies.

01:59:38.484 --> 01:59:38.774
Right.

01:59:38.814 --> 01:59:43.935
And you have to have like a bus pass to get up there, like a tourist thing, and we didn't have any money.

01:59:44.024 --> 01:59:44.375
Right.

01:59:44.395 --> 01:59:47.145
So we drove as far as we wanted and then turned around again.

01:59:48.255 --> 01:59:53.085
Honda Element is like a, like a Forester or something, like a little small SUV kind of thing.

01:59:54.164 --> 01:59:55.234
That was quite an adventure.

01:59:55.274 --> 01:59:55.765
It was.

01:59:55.845 --> 01:59:56.635
It was really fun.

01:59:56.715 --> 01:59:57.055
Yeah.

01:59:57.114 --> 02:00:00.145
That was probably, there were plenty of crazy experiences.

02:00:00.145 --> 02:00:01.984
And how long have you guys been married at the time?

02:00:02.984 --> 02:00:04.654
Uh, two or three years.

02:00:04.725 --> 02:00:06.064
Okay, so you were pretty well acquainted.

02:00:06.114 --> 02:00:06.375
Yeah.

02:00:06.914 --> 02:00:12.704
But, like, I've run the Wild West Relay a couple times and been in a van with six or seven people for thirty hours.

02:00:12.895 --> 02:00:15.744
And that changes how you feel about each of those people.

02:00:15.774 --> 02:00:15.914
Yeah.

02:00:15.914 --> 02:00:22.185
So I imagine jumping in a car and being there for three months was probably expanding for your relationship.

02:00:22.515 --> 02:00:23.074
It was.

02:00:23.114 --> 02:00:27.404
I read an article about a couple who, uh, did a tandem bike ride across the country.

02:00:27.444 --> 02:00:28.074
Mm, yeah.

02:00:28.425 --> 02:00:29.234
Got divorced after that.

02:00:29.435 --> 02:00:34.055
No, the quote I remember from that was, Wherever your marriage is going, it'll get there quicker on a tandem bike.

02:00:35.954 --> 02:00:38.716
Maybe that's why my wife has been resistant about a tandem bike.

02:00:38.716 --> 02:00:40.720
Because she knows how this is going to end.

02:00:41.909 --> 02:00:42.130
I don't know.

02:00:42.189 --> 02:00:43.630
I don't think want to ride behind you that long.

02:00:43.640 --> 02:00:46.470
Mostly I think it's that she doesn't want to give up that much control.

02:00:47.140 --> 02:00:56.989
Um, Dane, if there's, uh, engineers that are also managers out there or other people that just think what you got going on is pretty interesting, you want to tell them how to find you easiest?

02:00:56.989 --> 02:00:57.550
Oh yeah.

02:00:57.550 --> 02:00:59.899
So isolation coffee, it's just isolation.

02:00:59.899 --> 02:01:00.534
coffee.

02:01:01.085 --> 02:01:05.715
Um, if you want specialty coffee delivered to you in Fort Collins, we'll take care of it.

02:01:05.984 --> 02:01:06.435
That's easy.

02:01:06.835 --> 02:01:08.965
And then RevZero, RevZero.

02:01:08.965 --> 02:01:09.345
org.

02:01:09.614 --> 02:01:11.194
Um, you can find us on LinkedIn.

02:01:11.204 --> 02:01:14.154
We're posting content all the time, trying to share as much as we can.

02:01:14.534 --> 02:01:22.284
And when the time is right, as the company grows, as you're moving from working on technical problems to people problems, that's when I can help you.

02:01:22.284 --> 02:01:23.795
I like it.

02:01:23.824 --> 02:01:32.060
And, and when you're, uh, a lot of people call me when they're anticipating a move out or trying to, um, thinking that they no longer belong there.

02:01:32.409 --> 02:01:32.909
Okay.

02:01:33.119 --> 02:01:38.390
And what often happens though, is that we figure out how to craft the type of company that they want to be a part of.

02:01:39.109 --> 02:01:43.550
And so then they, especially if they're on track to be that next leader, potentially.

02:01:43.550 --> 02:01:43.989
Yeah.

02:01:44.029 --> 02:01:44.260
Yeah.

02:01:44.260 --> 02:01:44.739
Interesting.

02:01:44.750 --> 02:01:47.640
Cause the promotion into leadership is not easy.

02:01:47.649 --> 02:01:48.579
It's not comfortable.

02:01:49.050 --> 02:01:54.119
Um, you get excited about it and then you quickly realize what it takes further up.

02:01:54.140 --> 02:01:55.920
You get in the org chart, the more help you need.

02:01:55.930 --> 02:01:56.840
I'm a huge proponent.

02:01:56.869 --> 02:01:57.770
I use coaches.

02:01:58.550 --> 02:02:03.779
I'm a huge proponent of coaching, therapy, mentors, like building yourself a board of support.

02:02:03.840 --> 02:02:04.300
Yeah.

02:02:04.319 --> 02:02:07.489
Whether that's therapists, mentors, and coaches, having all Think Tank chapters, all that.

02:02:07.500 --> 02:02:09.000
Loco Think Tank, absolutely.

02:02:09.000 --> 02:02:12.869
I, just having this mastermind that you, you get to see another perspective.

02:02:12.920 --> 02:02:13.439
Yeah, yeah.

02:02:13.560 --> 02:02:17.529
When I first left banking, the first blog I wrote was, There's no one to tell me what to do.

02:02:17.529 --> 02:02:18.125
Yeah.

02:02:18.364 --> 02:02:19.225
Exclamation point.

02:02:19.225 --> 02:02:19.314
Yeah.

02:02:19.635 --> 02:02:22.255
Uh, I was just telling my wife that this week.

02:02:22.255 --> 02:02:28.064
I was like, you know, I kind of, the thing I miss about having a job is you get there and you know, someone's going to tell you what to do.

02:02:28.164 --> 02:02:28.465
Yeah.

02:02:28.835 --> 02:02:33.154
But when you run your own business, you show up and you're like, there's about 30 things I could do.

02:02:33.164 --> 02:02:33.784
What do I do?

02:02:33.864 --> 02:02:40.613
We might not have shocked more about Loco Think Tank because we've got some pretty cool chapters for the smalls and like showing up next month.

02:02:40.613 --> 02:02:40.920
Okay.

02:02:40.920 --> 02:02:44.265
Not having done the thing that you said you were going to do last month.

02:02:44.265 --> 02:02:44.864
Accountability.

02:02:44.895 --> 02:02:45.505
Yeah.

02:02:45.534 --> 02:02:45.875
Yeah.

02:02:45.895 --> 02:02:47.484
I mean, you're the decider right now.

02:02:47.484 --> 02:02:47.784
Right.

02:02:48.229 --> 02:02:51.989
Your wife isn't going to call you out on it because you're making enough to make her not annoyed anymore.

02:02:52.289 --> 02:02:53.760
Well, actually she works with me in RevZero now.

02:02:53.760 --> 02:02:55.079
Oh, so she knows what you're up to.

02:02:55.130 --> 02:02:55.869
Absolutely.

02:02:55.979 --> 02:02:56.460
Oh, that's cool.

02:02:56.460 --> 02:02:58.140
We're collaborating on, on all levels.

02:02:58.220 --> 02:02:58.600
Oh, yeah.

02:02:58.819 --> 02:03:00.149
I forgot to ask much more about that.

02:03:00.180 --> 02:03:01.750
So, uh, what's her name again?

02:03:01.800 --> 02:03:02.170
Katie.

02:03:02.279 --> 02:03:02.699
Katie.

02:03:02.989 --> 02:03:08.295
Um, I think you're probably pretty awesome based on, uh, Dane's, uh, description.

02:03:08.715 --> 02:03:11.494
And the fact that she's put up with this for 20 years now.

02:03:11.545 --> 02:03:12.314
Yeah, you know.

02:03:13.585 --> 02:03:14.845
Hey, appreciate you being here, Dane.

02:03:14.854 --> 02:03:15.305
Thanks for having me.

02:03:15.314 --> 02:03:16.095
Have a great evening.

02:03:16.244 --> 02:03:17.835
And, uh, talk to you next time.