EXPERIENCE 204 | Building Health on a Strong Foundation - Jane Brewer, Upper Cervical Chiropractor and Owner of Precision Chiropractic

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Jane Brewer grew up in a diverse neighborhood in the heart of New York City, with a constant heart for people and service and adventure.

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She signed up for the AmeriCorps plan to work in supportive Habitat for Humanity projects, and at 22 revealed that she didn't have a driver's license when her manager asked her to drive a truck and trailer to a project.

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A few short years later, she drove herself to Crested Butte, Colorado, for a job on a ski hill.

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and worked a series of small jobs before landing in 9 1 1 dispatch.

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Her journey turned after a beneficial season with a local chiropractor and an encouraging word, and she landed in the Front Range of Colorado fresh out of chiropractic school in Atlanta.

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This year, she's celebrating 10 years of growth and the purchase of a new office location.

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This year, she's celebrating 10 years of growth and the purchase of a new office location.

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Jane has been a member of Loco Think Tank for over 5 years and hers is a story of steady growth.

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Constant love for her clients and community and building healthy lives on strong foundations.

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Enjoy.

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Let's have some fun.

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Welcome to the Low Cove Experience podcast.

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On this show, you'll get to know business and community leaders from all around Northern Colorado and beyond.

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Our guests share their stories, business stories, life stories, stories of triumph and of tragedy.

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And through it all, you'll be inspired and entertained.

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These conversations are real and raw, and no topics are off limits.

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So pop in a breath mint and get ready to meet our latest guest.

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Welcome back to the Loco Experience podcast.

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My guest today is longtime Loco Think Tank member and doctor of chiropractic Jane Brewer with Precision Chiropractic, and I love how you look with your blue teal hat with the blue teal light in the background.

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I do expect color coordinated lighting on all of my podcasts.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Well, you said this is your first time One of your first non Zoom podcasts.

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Correct.

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Yeah, a lot of the interviews I've done have been through a screen, so this is different.

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Well, and they're probably looking for, like, your smart girl stuff in chiropractic, and particularly, what is the thing that you're the expert on?

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This is a mouthful.

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I have a credential.

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It's a DCCJP.

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So it stands for Diplomate in Chiropractic Cranio Cervical Junction Procedures.

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It just means I'm a head and neck specialist.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Oh, in the Atlas.

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Correct.

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Right.

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That's the, that's the Uppermost vertebrae in the spine.

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Juncture, okay.

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Yeah.

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I was trying to remember it, trying to remember it.

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Good job.

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I did.

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Yes.

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But not really.

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Uh, so You had it, yeah.

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So you're one of like, Really small number of people with that designation, like a few hundreds and thousands, maybe.

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Excuse me.

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There's been about 60 of us that have completed the program.

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The fourth cohort is going through now, so we'll add to the ranks here when they make it successfully through the program.

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Oh, wow.

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And are you out for two years or something?

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Yes.

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Uh, finished up in 2022.

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Okay.

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Dang.

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I remember sitting down with you near my office when you, took me through all the steps of trying to make the decision of joining that program.

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And that was before I was a member.

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Oh, is that right?

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Oh, that's cool.

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Yeah.

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I'm glad that that was impactful.

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I remember that conversation.

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I didn't remember how impactful it was the right decision for you.

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It was.

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It was.

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And in different ways than I may have anticipated in the beginning, but.

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All right.

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So, um, I guess let's just introduce your, your business to the world here, uh, in another way.

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another fashion than all the years, whatever you've done before.

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But, um, what is Precision Chiropractic all about?

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We are a chiropractic clinic and we provide really specialized chiropractic services that really care for folks with head and neck issues.

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For example, we take care of a lot of people with migraines, headaches, different vertigo conditions.

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A lot of folks recovering from concussion, traumatic brain injury, jaw issues, ear issues because of related it is to the head and the neck.

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So, kind of especially for you, compared to a lot of chiropractors have a reputation as being like a backcracker.

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Sure.

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Right?

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But you're really more of a cranial specialist, anything in that area, the top of the neck.

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And it's messing your stuff up.

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Yeah, that's my bread and butter.

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And of course the next connected on down.

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You can do the back cracking if you need to, whatever is useful.

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I, you know, any adjusting that we do in my practice, it doesn't involve much forceful twisting, popping, cracking.

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That's a very traditional chiropractic.

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Okay.

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method of practice and there's other ways and what we do, especially with the upper neck, because it is a very delicate area.

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And in my opinion, it requires a very dedicated and careful approach to managing and caring for it, especially in those more complex cases with people who have had injuries.

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Um, it's a very calculated adjustment.

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It's very gentle.

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It is designed for the individual based on very precise measurements that we've taken from imaging.

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And it's an instrument, uh, guided adjustment.

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Oh.

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with your hands or you mean the instrument actually?

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So there's a instrument that actually delivers the force because it's exactly reproducible every time.

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Is it a little plunger thingy?

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It's, I'm shocked I haven't been to your, I haven't been through your chair.

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I know.

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Well, you're going to, I'm going to be moving here in the springtime.

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So you'll have to come see our new office.

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I will, uh, I'll pay for an appointment once you get settled into your new space.

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Well, first step, consultation.

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Okay.

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And that's always complimentary.

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Okay.

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Perfect.

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But yeah, I mean, I take care of all chiropractic cases and I would say the most common reason, of course, people think to visit a chiropractor is they have some kind of neck or back pain.

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That's I think what chiropractic is known for.

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Sure.

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But.

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with what I do, I really look and it's a little different, but, um, we really look at the upper neck as a structural foundation.

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And we're not used to thinking about the foundation of sitting at the top.

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You know, we don't build a house from the ceiling down, but what I try to do in an initial consultation with the folks that come see me is just teach them why from a structural and a neurological perspective, that if, This is going to sound silly, but if your head's not on straight, if your head's not sitting over top of the rest of your spine, everything else is going to pay the price for it, both from a structural standpoint, leading to all kinds of postural compensations and aches and pains elsewhere.

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But from a neurological standpoint, that's about as close to the brain, the source of all those signals as you can get.

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And so if you've got an obstruction there, it's going to create problems downstream as well.

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I've got, uh, And I'm shocked that I haven't, but I just, I was, so I, I used to go to chiropractor once in a while when I was banking, you know, me and Jill both had income and discretionary and a lot more sitting stuff.

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And then I was, you know, food tracking and completely broke and then early stage think tank still completely broke.

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Yeah.

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Still not wealthy, but I could get a, you know, a couple of adjustments if I wanted to, but I've got like a straight neck.

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Yeah.

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Like probably you've seen that a lot of times.

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Absolutely.

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I still do some of the exercises that a chiropractor from 18 years ago told me I could do to try to help progress for sure.

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And that curve in the neck is really important.

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We developed that in infancy.

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That's why tummy time is so important for babies.

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When babies start to pick their head up and tilt their head up, that's when that curve develops.

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Well, I assume my brain is heavier than most people's.

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You got a big noggin.

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Well, I was thinking I'm extra smart.

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Oh, big brain, heavy head.

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Just big melon.

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So, uh, what's your team is you're the only doctor I am the only doctor currently And we've always been a two person team.

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I've always had one right hand woman.

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So for 10 years, I've employed just three incredible people who have become really close friends.

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And I feel like that's really special too, to create that opportunity for somebody else.

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So.

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We've always been a two person team as I move into this new office that I keep mentioning.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I will hire a second clinical assistant because it'll help free me up to do some of the things that only I could do.

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But still, probably you'll stay the only doctor you have interest in.

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I, you know, I, I do.

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And I think There's a couple motivations behind me wanting to bring in an associate doctor.

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First is, of course, for them.

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You can take a vacation without your clients missing you.

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Yeah, that's, that's a big deal on my end.

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I'm sure.

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That time freedom.

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For lifestyle.

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It's, when I choose to leave, it's a very intentional choice because, you know, again, two sides of that coin too, my patients aren't getting the care that they need and I have no income.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And by going back to maybe hiring another doctor, I've applied with two of the chiropractic colleges, um, All I, as far as I know, all of the chiropractic schools require you do some kind of externship or clinical experience before you graduate.

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Try before you buy that way.

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Exactly.

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So with the two, the school that I went to and another school that's located in South Carolina, I've applied now to host interns.

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So I think the next time I do go down that path, they will have to spend at least, you know, a quarter.

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In my office.

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Yeah, yeah, not on my dime, right but also to see if we're good match for each other Yeah, for sure.

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Well, they want that too.

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Yeah, because I Mean most chiropractors eventually want to have their own practice Or maybe not.

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I maybe it used to be that way, you know 20 years ago or something, but maybe it's not as much I'm not sure either and there's a few options, but either way they can't do it right out of school It was what I was going to say.

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Like, they're just not smart enough.

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I know, but you're an unusual person.

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Plus you were, you were older than average.

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So you already had life interaction skills and stuff.

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You're not like, excuse me, sir.

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Can I be your chiropractor?

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In the line of the grocery store.

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Excuse me.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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Um, so tell me about this new, you're buying a building.

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You're buying a space.

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Was it a building?

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A condo space?

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Where is it at?

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After 10 years of.

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paying somebody else's mortgage and I'm going to be paying my own.

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So I feel really proud about that.

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Well, you should feel proud about that.

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And we're going to be moving in the springtime.

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I've got an awesome contractor, actually, this connection pathway through loco, which is pretty cool.

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Awesome.

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And you can, you can say their name if you.

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Oh, so through Moses Horner, our chapter facilitator, he introduced me to Josh Mathis, who owns Projects Limited.

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So he's going to be doing my tenant finish.

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Yeah.

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I'm not familiar, but.

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Yeah.

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Super good guy.

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And it's been awesome working with him so far.

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But.

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I'll be moving in the springtime.

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Our new office is going to be just a straight shot five miles north.

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So currently I'm near Shields in Sentara.

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Right.

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Like by the Bonefish and whatnot.

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And so if you drive five miles north on County road five, so past crossroads and we're like, The ranch is okay fuzzies.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and you keep going north before you hit 392 it Yeah, right Windsor exit like where the ice rink is exactly so it's in the business It's in the building this part just north of the Better Business Bureau building.

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Okay, the BBB.

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Yeah, I'm there all the time Yeah.

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You'll have to come say hi.

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Um, you could lobby Moses to move your chapter right there.

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Okay.

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But then it'd be kind of awkward.

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You're like, I just have to go across the hall.

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No.

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I like coming up to Old Town Fort Collins.

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Yeah, for sure.

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Yeah.

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I live in Fort Collins.

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I love to come up here.

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Cool.

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But you would have room in this new space if you wanted to add a, uh, you, you mentioned that another clinical associate would be first.

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Yes.

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So my next hire is going to be another clinical assistant, as far as, you know, somebody that's going to help.

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chart for me, help direct the flow of patient traffic in the office and just free my time up to actually just focus on caring for people and do the clinical things that only I'm licensed to do.

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And so I'll have more, one more administrative focused assistant and one more clinical focused assistant.

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They'll be cross trained.

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So one of them can take a vacation or have a few days off.

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Well, that's important for just quality of life and stuff too.

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You know, one of the interesting things is, uh, Like with local think tank, um, we don't really have to make the sausage, right?

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The machine kind of runs.

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And so Alma had, um, Come back from a little trip and then she's trying to plan a trip next November to Japan Oh my gosh, awesome And then I grew up with a group of eight or something But all these other people are like, you know I don't know if I can get enough hours and my boss is gonna be cool with me being gone for ten days in a row and this and that and like You see like local think tank is cool that way.

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Yeah, like I'm like I'm proud that she's sacrificing some lifestyle to take a trip to Japan.

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Yeah.

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A couple of years ago, I decided to effectively salary, I guess, my office manager because I do take a lot of time off.

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A few years ago, I was taking time off to travel for my double mate program, and I speak at a lot of conferences.

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And, uh.

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Every so often we take a personal vacation, and it just never felt right to me to have an employee that would suffer my insane schedule and be like, sorry about your paycheck.

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I'm going to be out of town this week.

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And so my office manager now gets It's steady hours, same paycheck every two weeks, no matter whether, you know, there's some weeks we put in, exactly.

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Yep.

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And some weeks we have a lot more time off.

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And so it's just a nice to not have me worry about it and not have them worry about it.

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Yeah.

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That's cool.

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That's smart.

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Um, So sometime this spring, April, May or something like that.

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Just depending on how things flow.

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I think actually in two weeks, we scheduled a date where I'm going to go in there and I'll put on a hard hat and some glasses, and we're going to smash some walls and windows and just demo and get ready to actually build it out.

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I worked with a.

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I'm a consultant for a law firm in Atlanta that helps design floor plans for chiropractic practices.

00:13:06.443 --> 00:13:17.712
So I've learned a lot from being in my space for 10 years about how things should flow in the office and where things should be located and kind of the journey of the patient from when they walk through the door and they stop at the front desk.

00:13:17.712 --> 00:13:19.113
And this is where a new patient goes.

00:13:19.113 --> 00:13:20.602
This is where an established patient goes.

00:13:20.793 --> 00:13:22.523
So it's laid out in much smarter way.

00:13:22.572 --> 00:13:23.383
Yeah, perfect.

00:13:23.717 --> 00:13:26.528
Um, and what was your chiropractic school, by the way?

00:13:26.778 --> 00:13:29.008
I went to life university outside of Atlanta, Georgia.

00:13:29.008 --> 00:13:29.357
Okay.

00:13:29.408 --> 00:13:29.697
Okay.

00:13:30.087 --> 00:13:37.827
And then they're affiliated or not at all with the South Carolina one that you could also take people from independent, just similar, you'd like their style, like their values.

00:13:37.827 --> 00:13:44.778
I do like they are, uh, more philosophically based chiropractic, you know, you'll find there's chiropractors of many different flavors, I guess.

00:13:45.447 --> 00:13:55.753
And honestly, some of the schools, their focus isn't even a whole lot of adjusting, which is pretty Mind boggling to me, because that is the one unique skill that as chiropractors we offer to people.

00:13:56.182 --> 00:14:01.852
And even under the fat umbrella, there are many different ways to adjust the spine.

00:14:02.663 --> 00:14:12.462
But if you're not doing that, you're not doing the one thing that we're, So if you're just adjusting without having measured first kind of, you're like, well, I don't know where we started.

00:14:12.523 --> 00:14:13.363
I don't know where we're going.

00:14:13.393 --> 00:14:14.192
That's exactly right.

00:14:14.192 --> 00:14:18.302
We'll just do some cracky, cracky and get you on every two weeks schedule.

00:14:19.062 --> 00:14:19.342
Yeah.

00:14:19.342 --> 00:14:32.447
We do a lot of objective outcome measuring in my office, a lot of pre and post testing because I mean, If anything else, like, if nothing else, I want to know that I'm influencing the change that I set out to make.

00:14:32.687 --> 00:14:35.398
Of course that's important to the people I'm taking care of, too.

00:14:35.398 --> 00:14:39.988
You know, pain levels are, you know, after three months, the pain levels are down 75%.

00:14:40.538 --> 00:14:40.778
Right.

00:14:41.467 --> 00:14:42.107
What graded that?

00:14:42.107 --> 00:14:45.258
Um, and range of motion is, you know, this much more, that kind of thing.

00:14:45.278 --> 00:14:45.648
Totally.

00:14:45.998 --> 00:15:13.477
So, Dutch people that are, um, Chiropractic skeptics, uh, maybe, maybe that comes from your own journey or what you've seen, um, since becoming a chiropractor, because I think there's a lot of people, like, I wouldn't, I'm just kind of, Poor, a little bit poor, mostly cheap, you know, so I've, and I've taught myself how to try to do yoga and stretches and different things to be more healthy care.

00:15:13.477 --> 00:15:19.258
I don't really have, I don't have migraines, I don't have neck pain, thank the Lord, you know.

00:15:19.298 --> 00:15:19.567
Yeah.

00:15:19.567 --> 00:15:25.488
So I'm going to start out by saying, I think the spine is a really strange blind spot when it comes to healthcare.

00:15:26.327 --> 00:15:28.378
And I don't think it's managed very well.

00:15:28.388 --> 00:15:29.918
You know, it's like, we all think.

00:15:30.332 --> 00:15:30.822
To get our teeth cleaned.

00:15:30.822 --> 00:15:32.552
It's like our wiring harness, basically.

00:15:32.602 --> 00:15:34.043
Can we all get our eyes checked?

00:15:34.043 --> 00:15:35.033
We get our hearing checked.

00:15:35.033 --> 00:15:36.283
We have blood work done.

00:15:37.202 --> 00:15:47.572
The spine is a huge blind spot in that system, and like you just mentioned, it protects the most important thing we have, without which everything else would actually cease to function correctly.

00:15:47.582 --> 00:15:48.293
Right, right.

00:15:48.293 --> 00:15:53.623
And so, And these are concepts that I learned, I would say, in my early 30s.

00:15:53.623 --> 00:15:55.692
I, like you mentioned before, I was older when I went to school.

00:15:55.692 --> 00:15:57.403
I started chiro school when I was 32 years old.

00:15:57.403 --> 00:15:58.212
I had an art degree.

00:15:58.663 --> 00:16:01.283
And so I didn't really have even a whole lot of science experience.

00:16:01.373 --> 00:16:07.753
I just had a personal life changing experience with my own care, which inspired me to go to school.

00:16:07.773 --> 00:16:18.648
I just saw that at its purest place, chiropractic just makes sense, that the spine houses the central nerve system.

00:16:18.648 --> 00:16:21.878
I tell my patients, think about it like the electrical wiring system in your body.

00:16:22.748 --> 00:16:29.857
And you've got the source up in the brain and those nerve pathways, it's kind of like driving on I 25 every day.

00:16:29.888 --> 00:16:30.967
We've got three lanes now.

00:16:31.518 --> 00:16:34.337
When all three lanes of traffic are moving, life is good.

00:16:34.837 --> 00:16:37.467
We get from point A to point B efficiently.

00:16:38.413 --> 00:16:40.732
We arrive at our destination, life is good, right?

00:16:41.302 --> 00:16:52.432
But if there's an obstruction there, if there's an obstruction in one lane, two lanes, if there's an accident, if you know, it's snowed and they haven't plowed and there's an obstruction there, it's going to take you longer.

00:16:52.523 --> 00:16:54.222
It's going to be more dangerous.

00:16:54.222 --> 00:16:55.653
The conditions aren't as ideal.

00:16:56.373 --> 00:16:57.763
It's a really similar concept.

00:16:57.763 --> 00:17:11.982
If the brain isn't able to communicate over those neural pathways, then some kind of function, and those nerves control everything, every movement we make, everything we sense and feel, how we connect with the world outside of ourselves, and how everything internally is regulated.

00:17:12.452 --> 00:17:18.553
And if there's an obstruction in those neural pathways, something is going to result in a loss of function there.

00:17:18.613 --> 00:17:20.282
Do chiropractors make a difference?

00:17:20.643 --> 00:17:23.682
People with autoimmune disorders sometimes?

00:17:23.853 --> 00:17:24.423
Certainly.

00:17:24.452 --> 00:17:29.143
When you think, you know, first of all, you've got the whole gut and brain access, right?

00:17:29.252 --> 00:17:29.583
Right.

00:17:29.803 --> 00:17:37.143
And so the brain Has a huge neural network, not only in the spine, but throughout the entire body.

00:17:37.643 --> 00:17:43.383
And you know, autoimmunity is just a failure of the body to recognize what is innate.

00:17:43.383 --> 00:17:46.603
And what is a foreign invader, right?

00:17:47.313 --> 00:17:49.423
And so it's not that we treat those things directly.

00:17:49.452 --> 00:17:50.218
You know, I'm not.

00:17:51.028 --> 00:17:58.978
an immunologist, I'm not a cardiologist, like, but we do work with this underlying neural network that coordinates the function of all those things.

00:17:58.998 --> 00:18:11.637
And I will tell you, in the 10 years I've been doing this, I have seen people's, uh, Crohn's disease or, you know, other autoimmune conditions improve, you know, objectively, you know, they'll go to their medical doctor and their blood work has changed.

00:18:11.637 --> 00:18:14.657
And it's like, cool, your body's regulating itself a bit better.

00:18:14.678 --> 00:18:15.057
Yeah.

00:18:15.107 --> 00:18:15.448
Yeah.

00:18:15.508 --> 00:18:16.057
That's great.

00:18:16.157 --> 00:18:16.758
Okay, cool.

00:18:17.238 --> 00:18:21.577
I, uh, I don't know if I've talked to you about, probably not, but I've had, I saw you had a hitch in your giddy up.

00:18:21.577 --> 00:18:21.798
Yeah.

00:18:21.798 --> 00:18:22.208
Yeah.

00:18:22.258 --> 00:18:25.577
Which I believe is, is psoriatic arthritis.

00:18:25.857 --> 00:18:34.117
I've had psoriasis a couple of times in the last few years, like on the skin, even now into my elbow, there's a little psoriasis thing.

00:18:34.117 --> 00:18:34.407
Right.

00:18:34.498 --> 00:18:34.897
Yeah.

00:18:35.057 --> 00:18:42.627
But I believe that Um, in this case, in last winter, last November, um, it's been causing me swelling in my knee.

00:18:42.627 --> 00:18:43.038
Some joint issues.

00:18:43.038 --> 00:18:43.048
Yeah.

00:18:43.048 --> 00:18:43.238
Yeah.

00:18:43.238 --> 00:18:46.438
And there's like a, like a little surface almost over my kneecaps.

00:18:46.438 --> 00:18:48.788
There's a little popping and clicking that shouldn't be there.

00:18:48.798 --> 00:18:49.218
Me too.

00:18:49.218 --> 00:18:50.097
But for different reasons.

00:18:50.627 --> 00:18:50.968
Well, yeah.

00:18:50.968 --> 00:18:52.577
Mine's not scheme related or anything.

00:18:52.577 --> 00:18:53.317
I don't think.

00:18:53.847 --> 00:19:01.887
Um, but it's, it's because, you know, something in my body is kind of telling this area to do some stuff that it shouldn't want to be doing.

00:19:01.907 --> 00:19:04.347
Or maybe it's not managing inflammation as optimally as it should.

00:19:04.347 --> 00:19:04.667
Right.

00:19:04.667 --> 00:19:04.887
Exactly.

00:19:05.018 --> 00:19:05.038
Yeah.

00:19:05.397 --> 00:19:05.488
Yeah.

00:19:05.958 --> 00:19:06.478
And it's.

00:19:06.698 --> 00:19:07.087
It's true.

00:19:07.097 --> 00:19:09.178
We're not taught to think about our bodies in this way.

00:19:09.228 --> 00:19:11.617
Nobody thinks, Oh, my knee's feeling a little inflamed.

00:19:11.617 --> 00:19:12.988
I should go have my neck checked.

00:19:13.067 --> 00:19:13.407
Right.

00:19:13.688 --> 00:19:17.077
Well, I should probably go to get some acupuncture would be as useful.

00:19:17.117 --> 00:19:22.278
All of that works with those natural, innate capacity of our body.

00:19:22.337 --> 00:19:22.907
Exactly.

00:19:22.907 --> 00:19:25.143
To heal itself because truly.

00:19:25.583 --> 00:19:26.633
That's how it all happens.

00:19:26.633 --> 00:19:27.712
We, we heal ourselves.

00:19:28.272 --> 00:19:29.472
It's better if it's that way.

00:19:29.472 --> 00:19:34.242
Otherwise, you just kind of get hooked on steroid shots every nine months or whatever.

00:19:34.242 --> 00:19:35.542
Truly, that's not healing.

00:19:35.542 --> 00:19:38.182
That's, that's more of a patch than a fix.

00:19:38.182 --> 00:19:38.903
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:39.262 --> 00:19:42.732
You know, it gets you out of the woods and there's, don't get me wrong, there's a time and a place for everything.

00:19:43.262 --> 00:19:49.343
But I think a lot of the folks that come to me, and every so often I even have somebody that walks through my door, they're like, I feel great and I just want to keep it that way.

00:19:49.343 --> 00:19:50.583
It's like awesome.

00:19:50.682 --> 00:19:51.333
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:51.393 --> 00:19:58.002
And I've been to actually the, you know, Um, the doctor that started Life University in Marietta, Georgia, Dr.

00:19:58.002 --> 00:20:06.792
Sid Williams, he was just huge personality, you know, you got this big booing Southern voice and I actually had the privilege of knowing Dr.

00:20:06.792 --> 00:20:11.742
Sid and he passed away, um, while I was actually in chiropractic school.

00:20:11.893 --> 00:20:12.913
That's, it's okay.

00:20:12.952 --> 00:20:18.823
But he, you know, he would say these things and some of them would just stick with you and he'd be like, you either pay now or you pay later.

00:20:19.958 --> 00:20:24.968
And there's a truth to that, you know, it's, it's hard to measure.

00:20:26.073 --> 00:20:32.462
Or impossible to measure what might not happen later on down the road because you had the opportunity to take care of yourself now.

00:20:32.563 --> 00:20:34.803
So it is in that way, a little bit abstract, right?

00:20:34.803 --> 00:20:35.742
It can be chiropractic.

00:20:35.742 --> 00:20:39.643
It can be, you know, just spending that 30 minutes a day exercising.

00:20:40.073 --> 00:20:42.053
It can be drinking one extra glass of water every day.

00:20:42.053 --> 00:20:45.482
Like it doesn't have to be anything complicated or expensive.

00:20:46.173 --> 00:20:46.762
That was water.

00:20:46.772 --> 00:20:48.083
Oh no, yours is tequila too.

00:20:50.153 --> 00:20:50.573
Just kidding.

00:20:50.952 --> 00:21:08.702
Um, so I guess, and I want to get into your personal particular story and get the deets on that, but like, since you've been practicing, do you have the authority to share like some real dramatic stories where, you know, you were the main thing that caused somebody really dramatic changes?

00:21:09.403 --> 00:21:10.012
Yes.

00:21:10.063 --> 00:21:19.462
And I always want to, Make sure people No, I want to make sure people understand that I'm just a facilitator in that process.

00:21:19.982 --> 00:21:28.492
I know what to do and when to do it to restore their body's inborn recuperative abilities, right?

00:21:28.532 --> 00:21:33.212
And so if I take credit for all the good stuff, I've got to take credit for the ones that didn't work too.

00:21:33.712 --> 00:21:36.982
And I do, you know, but the thing is, Everybody's different.

00:21:36.982 --> 00:21:41.163
So to answer your question, um, that was my little asterisk at the beginning.

00:21:41.173 --> 00:21:41.492
Yeah.

00:21:41.583 --> 00:21:42.262
My little caveat.

00:21:42.423 --> 00:21:45.853
It's not a magic bullet always in some situations.

00:21:46.032 --> 00:21:47.173
What people do the 99.

00:21:47.383 --> 00:21:52.393
9 percent of the time they're outside of my office also has a huge impact on how their bodies function too.

00:21:52.522 --> 00:21:54.423
Two bags of Doritos every night on the couch.

00:21:54.472 --> 00:21:54.762
Right.

00:21:55.022 --> 00:21:57.673
It isn't going to matter how many adjustments they get every month.

00:21:57.948 --> 00:22:06.048
I think chiropractors are never as nerdy as when we're in school, like, and we're students and we're just on chiropractic island and surrounded by people who really think the same way.

00:22:06.627 --> 00:22:11.288
But, you know, we would eat our salad at lunch and be like, this broccoli is going to become my eye tissue tomorrow.

00:22:12.238 --> 00:22:18.952
But, yeah, you know, That's, that's those, I think from the outside looking in, they would be called these miracle cases, right?

00:22:18.972 --> 00:22:23.692
Those are the things that keep me really fired up about what I do.

00:22:23.692 --> 00:22:31.782
And honestly, even the little things that get better, like the person that could check their blind spot easier because they could turn their head better, like that lights me up too.

00:22:32.303 --> 00:22:40.657
But man, through the years, like I've seen folks go into remission from MS, like they've had post MRI scans, and those lesions have healed.

00:22:41.718 --> 00:22:43.748
gone away or reduced significantly.

00:22:44.248 --> 00:22:44.778
That's pretty cool.

00:22:44.778 --> 00:22:48.938
Along with the associated probably increase in just functionability quality of life.

00:22:49.028 --> 00:22:53.958
And to me that, like, that's really what it boils down to is the quality of life piece.

00:22:53.958 --> 00:22:54.278
Right.

00:22:54.307 --> 00:22:55.678
So that's, that was really cool.

00:22:56.518 --> 00:23:00.252
Um, I also was caring for a mom who, She did great.

00:23:00.252 --> 00:23:04.073
She had a lot of TMJ issues that cleared up really well, but I was talking to her.

00:23:04.073 --> 00:23:10.292
She was on my table one day and she said, Oh, my son, he was, uh, getting towards the end of high school.

00:23:10.292 --> 00:23:14.232
And he was a really talented baseball player, like was looking to get recruited by colleges.

00:23:14.232 --> 00:23:16.323
And she said, man, he's, he's not doing well.

00:23:16.323 --> 00:23:18.742
He was in a massive collision in the outfield.

00:23:18.742 --> 00:23:24.682
Like, I think he had the impression of that other kid's braces, like in his forehead and he had a pretty serious concussion.

00:23:25.012 --> 00:23:27.643
And I was like, Oh my gosh, you need to bring him to me.

00:23:27.653 --> 00:23:27.823
Right.

00:23:28.343 --> 00:23:34.343
And so she did the very next day, she brought the son in and we did our imaging and she's like, he just hasn't been himself.

00:23:34.343 --> 00:23:35.403
He hasn't been sleeping.

00:23:35.462 --> 00:23:39.383
He's not, you know, even close to being able to function to go back to school.

00:23:39.762 --> 00:23:41.982
I mean, the kid was in a bad way, real serious concussion.

00:23:41.992 --> 00:23:44.752
And so did imaging.

00:23:45.758 --> 00:23:52.768
And what happens, you know, I measure the imaging, I craft an adjustment, there's very specific angles and measurements that we, we create for the individual.

00:23:52.837 --> 00:23:57.137
inflammation within there that's holding it out of place on the spine or something?

00:23:57.137 --> 00:24:00.837
Well, if you've hit your head hard enough to create a concussive force, there's no way you, you know.

00:24:01.117 --> 00:24:02.298
It didn't knock your neck out of alignment.

00:24:02.988 --> 00:24:08.067
So it's, the spine is out of alignment and it's like, what is, is it muscles that are supposed to keep it in alignment?

00:24:08.097 --> 00:24:08.258
Yeah.

00:24:08.258 --> 00:24:15.077
There's muscles, there's ligaments, but the, you know, when it comes to concussion, there's a lot of factors there and it's really cool.

00:24:15.077 --> 00:24:19.752
I read a lot of research, but there, is a lot that connects with fluid dynamics.

00:24:20.103 --> 00:24:25.113
And so by that, I mean, blood flow to the brain, that blood flow brings oxygen, nutrients, creates healing.

00:24:25.123 --> 00:24:31.942
That's part of even like the balancing is kind of the pressure, like having for the tire pressure balance on both sides.

00:24:32.093 --> 00:24:33.903
And we have cerebrospinal fluid.

00:24:34.512 --> 00:24:43.117
And the more that we start to understand about the purpose of CSF, it, it's like, the scrub brush for the neural tissues in our body.

00:24:43.528 --> 00:24:46.788
And so it, it basically washes all of the These things are regenerating all the time.

00:24:46.887 --> 00:24:47.357
Right.

00:24:47.377 --> 00:24:54.268
It washes all of the, you know, the plaques and all of the metabolic waste products that can accumulate in those tissues.

00:24:54.268 --> 00:24:56.448
And by the way, those have been Dead white blood cells.

00:24:56.458 --> 00:25:03.307
No, been implicated in some neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, dementia, that's all abnormal protein deposits in the brain.

00:25:03.307 --> 00:25:08.303
And anyways, that CSF should flow and it should those tissues healthy.

00:25:08.712 --> 00:25:15.323
So back to the kid, when you knock your neck out of alignment, it can almost like a cork in a bottle start to create a less than optimal flow.

00:25:15.323 --> 00:25:18.123
So anyways, going back to that kid, he was not doing well.

00:25:18.722 --> 00:25:20.383
Moral of the story is, I got him adjusted.

00:25:20.403 --> 00:25:25.212
We have our patients, we have a stabilization room where patients get to rest in these zero gravity chairs.

00:25:25.722 --> 00:25:29.913
It's super comfy, it's really relaxing, but it also serves the purpose of stabilizing the adjustment.

00:25:29.913 --> 00:25:38.837
So we tucked him in for 10 or 15 minute rest after the adjustment, and he fell asleep for what the mom said was like the first time in I think it was three or four days since he had his accident.

00:25:38.837 --> 00:25:40.798
And I was like, did we leave him in there for longer?

00:25:40.798 --> 00:25:41.597
She's like, can we?

00:25:41.597 --> 00:25:43.748
I'm like, we can leave him in there as long as you need to.

00:25:43.748 --> 00:25:46.897
And so after about, I was thinking about 45 minutes to an hour.

00:25:46.897 --> 00:25:47.597
We woke him up.

00:25:47.597 --> 00:25:48.498
I post checked him.

00:25:49.127 --> 00:25:49.978
Everything looked great.

00:25:49.978 --> 00:25:54.528
I said, I'm going to, I told him, I'm going to text you tomorrow morning and just check in with you and see how he's doing.

00:25:54.887 --> 00:25:56.438
And so I texted him on the next morning.

00:25:56.438 --> 00:25:59.698
And he texted She's like, he woke up and he's himself.

00:25:59.698 --> 00:26:05.228
I saved that text message because and I think we were talking before we started filming But I'm not a crier.

00:26:05.317 --> 00:26:12.817
Like that's not how I express my emotions But that one that one hit me right in the feels because what does that mean for the trajectory of this kid's life?

00:26:12.837 --> 00:26:16.018
Right, and so he got back to it.

00:26:16.018 --> 00:26:25.222
She's like we now have to Basically stop him from doing more than he should be doing right now and he went in he was there's an incredible clinic in Town called the Asha brain clinic.

00:26:25.313 --> 00:26:43.292
Okay, and they deal of course with a lot of folks that are healing from TBIs and concussion and so I got a phone call from one of the providers over there They're like we need to know what you did to this kid And I said, he went in for some testing after his injury, and then he went in for another round of testing.

00:26:43.292 --> 00:26:53.173
And he tested not only normal for a teenager in his grade level, but better when he had bombed all the testing prior.

00:26:53.282 --> 00:27:00.603
And so that just opened up a really cool door to, and this ties into your question before about chiropractic skepticism.

00:27:00.613 --> 00:27:05.738
We kind of went off the rails with that, but it's really cool to, uh, you have those doors open.

00:27:05.738 --> 00:27:19.117
And I also credit some of my more advanced training to be able to have these conversations with other healthcare providers, MDs, neurologists, endocrinologists, to sit toe to toe with them and explain, this is why physiologically these results are happening.

00:27:19.407 --> 00:27:20.958
This is how we accomplish that outcome.

00:27:21.387 --> 00:27:23.057
These are the steps that we took.

00:27:23.057 --> 00:27:30.846
It didn't really, it didn't ever involve me picking somebody's head up, twisting it and hoping for the best.

00:27:30.846 --> 00:27:32.843
It was a very gentle, calculated, precise correction.

00:27:32.843 --> 00:27:37.143
And the goal isn't to see our patients twice a week for the rest of their lives.

00:27:37.143 --> 00:27:42.913
The goal is to get them as stable and as few adjustments as possible, to teach them to recognize the signs when things aren't quite right.

00:27:42.913 --> 00:27:44.252
So they can come in and get tuned up.

00:27:44.883 --> 00:27:47.833
But yeah, this, that just went all over the place.

00:27:47.853 --> 00:27:53.617
No, I think that it's actually sets up my next question, which is like, how old is your business now?

00:27:53.617 --> 00:27:53.883
10.

00:27:53.883 --> 00:27:54.982
It'll be 10 years this year.

00:27:55.022 --> 00:27:55.403
Okay.

00:27:55.442 --> 00:27:56.073
In July.

00:27:56.103 --> 00:27:58.873
So 10 years is not quite nine and a half now.

00:27:59.313 --> 00:27:59.593
Yeah.

00:27:59.722 --> 00:28:00.163
In business.

00:28:00.163 --> 00:28:02.982
I graduated 10 years ago, but I opened my business July of 15.

00:28:03.042 --> 00:28:03.542
So.

00:28:04.202 --> 00:28:09.063
Like, talk to me about the process of finding, cause if you're, if you're actually fixing people.

00:28:09.853 --> 00:28:10.143
Right.

00:28:10.143 --> 00:28:16.333
And you don't have a super visible location necessarily, like you're always going to find new people to keep your practice growing, I imagine.

00:28:16.633 --> 00:28:21.633
Or do you equip your customers to be really comfortable with referring you?

00:28:21.633 --> 00:28:25.393
Or how, what has been your mix of finding customers for your practice?

00:28:25.403 --> 00:28:27.462
Initially, I did a lot of networking.

00:28:27.472 --> 00:28:27.752
I remember.

00:28:27.752 --> 00:28:28.113
In the beginning.

00:28:28.133 --> 00:28:28.913
I saw you at a lot of places.

00:28:28.923 --> 00:28:29.542
Oh my gosh.

00:28:29.563 --> 00:28:30.643
I always think about, uh.

00:28:30.643 --> 00:28:31.813
I'd never see you around networking anymore.

00:28:31.823 --> 00:28:32.853
It's like Fight Club, right?

00:28:32.932 --> 00:28:32.952
Yeah.

00:28:33.188 --> 00:28:35.768
And like, they were going around to all these different meetings, right?

00:28:35.807 --> 00:28:37.867
I was like, it's like networking Fight Club.

00:28:38.827 --> 00:28:40.978
And you just, you have to show face.

00:28:40.978 --> 00:28:52.653
And it's not that you are necessarily recruiting your patients from these things, but you want to be the person they think about when their neighbor has a migraine or their friend gets into a motor vehicle accident or whatever it is.

00:28:52.653 --> 00:28:54.202
You want to be that top of mind.

00:28:55.603 --> 00:28:56.452
Go to place.

00:28:56.482 --> 00:29:03.212
And especially because I have this little niche within chiropractic, like if somebody has a head or neck issue, there literally isn't anybody better in Northern Colorado.

00:29:03.573 --> 00:29:06.222
And it's weird to toot my own horn like that, but it's, Just the truth.

00:29:07.063 --> 00:29:09.772
So now, like you said, things have evolved, right?

00:29:09.772 --> 00:29:12.583
After 10 years, you do establish more of a reputation.

00:29:12.613 --> 00:29:17.252
I get a ton of referrals from other healthcare providers, so that's wonderful.

00:29:17.252 --> 00:29:21.702
And then of course, with our patients, the results speak for themselves too, when they start feeling better.

00:29:21.857 --> 00:29:24.867
better and noticing these improvements in their day to day lives.

00:29:24.867 --> 00:29:25.798
They refer their spouse.

00:29:27.097 --> 00:29:28.268
And they tell the story at work.

00:29:28.268 --> 00:29:34.417
And then six months later, somebody at work is like, Hey, Marcy, who was that chiropractor you saw?

00:29:34.887 --> 00:29:35.758
And it's awesome.

00:29:35.807 --> 00:29:43.438
Of course for me and for my business, but it's awesome for them too, because now their coworker doesn't come in complaining every day or they come home to their spouse.

00:29:43.438 --> 00:29:48.807
And you know, I've, those are pieces of feedback that I've gotten to like kids have said to me, like, thank you for making my dad happier again.

00:29:49.377 --> 00:29:52.367
Like, he comes home and he's excited to play with me on the floor and, you know, do stuff.

00:29:52.367 --> 00:29:54.528
It's, it's really cool.

00:29:55.337 --> 00:29:57.208
My goal is to try to make you cry here tonight.

00:29:57.268 --> 00:29:58.008
It's not going to work.

00:29:58.298 --> 00:29:59.137
I might, I don't know.

00:29:59.258 --> 00:29:59.538
We'll see.

00:29:59.708 --> 00:30:00.377
We'll see how this goes.

00:30:00.438 --> 00:30:02.958
I can see how pointed my questions can get.

00:30:03.988 --> 00:30:06.238
Uh, well, congratulations on approaching.

00:30:06.248 --> 00:30:07.417
When did you get out of school?

00:30:07.428 --> 00:30:10.288
Like I graduated from school December of 2014.

00:30:10.288 --> 00:30:11.458
So I just kind of right there now.

00:30:12.988 --> 00:30:13.907
About seven months.

00:30:13.907 --> 00:30:14.357
We landed.

00:30:14.978 --> 00:30:20.637
My husband, Wes, and I, we lived in Colorado for about eight or nine years before we moved to Atlanta.

00:30:20.637 --> 00:30:25.458
So I go to school and we pretty much always knew Colorado would be where we returned to.

00:30:25.998 --> 00:30:27.478
But Front Range was totally new.

00:30:27.488 --> 00:30:30.188
We lived on the Western Slope and we were ski bombing it.

00:30:30.188 --> 00:30:31.107
It was wonderful.

00:30:32.107 --> 00:30:35.518
Talk to me about More about the business of chiropractic, maybe.

00:30:35.597 --> 00:30:35.998
Yeah.

00:30:36.198 --> 00:30:45.397
Um, we talked a little bit about acquiring clients, you know, you didn't, you know, you could, as a new business, you can spend all your money on marketing and nobody, nobody even hears you.

00:30:45.438 --> 00:30:47.367
I want to mention one thing before we move on.

00:30:47.557 --> 00:30:57.778
Um, you know, you were saying like, of course, patients will have a natural life cycle, so to speak, but I will tell you most of our patients, when we get to the end and we do a progress exam, we actually put everything up side by side.

00:30:57.778 --> 00:30:58.607
This is where we started.

00:30:58.607 --> 00:30:59.518
This is where we've ended up.

00:31:00.448 --> 00:31:02.637
And that kind of is the, Evidence, right?

00:31:02.647 --> 00:31:04.907
That things have changed to support how they're feeling.

00:31:04.938 --> 00:31:05.188
Yeah.

00:31:05.268 --> 00:31:11.728
Also, like I would say the vast majority of our patients choose to come in usually about once a month to just have their spine checked.

00:31:11.728 --> 00:31:13.382
Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

00:31:13.382 --> 00:31:14.548
Just a little tune up.

00:31:14.548 --> 00:31:14.781
Exactly.

00:31:14.781 --> 00:31:15.481
Just make sure.

00:31:15.481 --> 00:31:16.415
It's peace of mind.

00:31:16.415 --> 00:31:18.048
Which is a hundred bucks these days?

00:31:18.048 --> 00:31:18.516
Not even.

00:31:18.516 --> 00:31:18.982
Not even.

00:31:18.982 --> 00:31:19.682
Not even, Kurt.

00:31:19.682 --> 00:31:19.915
Okay.

00:31:19.915 --> 00:31:20.150
Alright.

00:31:20.150 --> 00:31:20.383
Um.

00:31:20.923 --> 00:31:22.442
Yeah, and I think it just makes sense.

00:31:22.442 --> 00:31:30.563
They've, uh, made the initial investment and they feel motivated to protect the gains they made and also they feel good and they want to stay that way.

00:31:31.182 --> 00:31:34.863
Well, I might even book a check in appointment before your new location is open.

00:31:34.903 --> 00:31:35.373
Okay.

00:31:35.423 --> 00:31:38.282
But I'll come in for my actual work in the new place.

00:31:38.313 --> 00:31:39.573
Well, you should come see my current office.

00:31:39.913 --> 00:31:40.857
It was a good home for us for ten years.

00:31:40.857 --> 00:31:41.813
I've been to your current office.

00:31:41.873 --> 00:31:42.623
Oh, okay.

00:31:42.633 --> 00:31:43.313
Yeah, two, three times.

00:31:43.462 --> 00:31:43.893
Perfect.

00:31:44.143 --> 00:31:44.653
Yeah, that's right.

00:31:44.772 --> 00:31:48.272
Mostly to drop off, like, uh Christmas gift or things like that.

00:31:48.853 --> 00:31:49.403
Um.

00:31:49.853 --> 00:31:52.423
I, you asked me a question.

00:31:52.563 --> 00:31:53.722
Oh, business y stuff.

00:31:53.752 --> 00:31:55.272
Like the business of chiropractic.

00:31:55.272 --> 00:32:02.002
We've talked about your small team kind of, but like you're the, basically the, the revenue all flows through your fingers.

00:32:02.063 --> 00:32:02.442
It does.

00:32:02.472 --> 00:32:03.893
You're doing the thing.

00:32:03.932 --> 00:32:04.252
Yep.

00:32:04.383 --> 00:32:11.823
And from the beginning I knew chiropractors, I mean that title, our education, the reason we have that degree.

00:32:12.252 --> 00:32:13.512
We have become.

00:32:13.847 --> 00:32:17.887
educated in being essentially doctors of the nervous system.

00:32:17.998 --> 00:32:19.468
And we access that through the spine, right?

00:32:20.337 --> 00:32:24.222
And so I, see a tremendous value in that.

00:32:24.222 --> 00:32:25.012
That's a great phrasing.

00:32:25.012 --> 00:32:27.692
I hadn't really heard it put quite like that.

00:32:27.692 --> 00:32:27.942
Yeah.

00:32:28.123 --> 00:32:31.502
Um, but when you say it that specifically, yeah.

00:32:31.932 --> 00:32:32.482
It's true.

00:32:32.613 --> 00:32:32.942
Right.

00:32:33.123 --> 00:32:36.603
Well, I mean, a nutritionist is kind of a doctor of the food you eat.

00:32:36.843 --> 00:32:37.083
Right.

00:32:37.083 --> 00:32:37.452
Whatever.

00:32:37.452 --> 00:32:39.962
Like there's all these specialties and saying it in that fashion.

00:32:39.992 --> 00:32:40.393
Totally.

00:32:40.423 --> 00:32:41.492
I think people understand maybe.

00:32:41.532 --> 00:32:41.853
Yeah.

00:32:42.333 --> 00:32:47.532
And it makes sense to me that way, but, um, so anyway, well, I don't know the business of chiropractic.

00:32:47.532 --> 00:32:51.452
I always knew like, you know, there's, I have a buddy, can I say a bad word?

00:32:51.593 --> 00:32:52.702
It's not even a bad word.

00:32:53.153 --> 00:32:56.962
Um, It's I grew up in New York city.

00:32:56.962 --> 00:32:57.782
That was like my first language.

00:32:58.093 --> 00:33:02.682
I really have to try to filter things out sometimes, but a really good friend and colleague of mine, Dr.

00:33:02.682 --> 00:33:04.682
Bill Lord and who practices in Connecticut.

00:33:04.732 --> 00:33:05.942
Um, he.

00:33:06.682 --> 00:33:08.522
loves to say there's an ask for every seat.

00:33:09.242 --> 00:33:09.502
Okay.

00:33:09.752 --> 00:33:30.958
And they're like there is there there's a time and a place for everything and everyone and there are a lot of chiropractic clinics that will throw out like they'll dangle the 17 new patient special or 39 all inclusive Well, the walk ins welcome kind of things on Right, and there's nothing wrong with that.

00:33:31.188 --> 00:33:41.837
And I would say sometimes if you're just looking for like a quick, you know, Hey, I need, I'm feeling pretty tight, or I need to increase range of motion, or I've got a little muscle spasm, or just looking for that temporary pain relief, okay.

00:33:42.153 --> 00:33:52.482
You know, you do that, but I just knew with the specificity of what I do, we're just going to charge a fair value based fee for our services.

00:33:52.482 --> 00:33:56.782
We're not going to offer any discounts, we're not going to do sales, and I'm not going to bargain with people.

00:33:56.803 --> 00:33:57.722
I think it's so interesting.

00:33:57.722 --> 00:34:01.173
I would never go into my dentist's office and be like, Oh, well, your fee is 129.

00:34:01.192 --> 00:34:03.553
Would you take 70 and I'll pay you cash?

00:34:04.452 --> 00:34:06.053
I'm like, no, our fee's our fee.

00:34:07.063 --> 00:34:07.732
And.

00:34:08.467 --> 00:34:10.565
So, I don't know if that's Are you covered by insurance?

00:34:10.565 --> 00:34:15.467
I, you know, we are not in network with any insurance providers with the exception of Medicare.

00:34:15.527 --> 00:34:16.858
Um, Okay.

00:34:17.088 --> 00:34:22.577
I, you know, if you're a practicing chiropractor and you're going to see patients over 65, you need to accept Medicare.

00:34:22.677 --> 00:34:22.958
Yeah.

00:34:22.958 --> 00:34:23.568
Yeah.

00:34:23.568 --> 00:34:25.597
Um, and I do accept some Medicare patients.

00:34:25.597 --> 00:34:30.148
I have to be Yeah, aware of how many because the reimbursement rates are pretty invisible.

00:34:30.358 --> 00:34:30.987
Oh, is that right?

00:34:30.987 --> 00:34:31.197
Yeah.

00:34:31.228 --> 00:34:33.518
Yeah But insurance is a whole different beast.

00:34:33.518 --> 00:34:40.818
So we are a fee for service facility If our patients do have coverage we can give them knock the documentation You know, they could submit directly we just take ourselves out of the middle.

00:34:40.818 --> 00:34:52.007
It just keeps it simple for everybody yeah, same thing probably with like even car crashes or different situations like that where insurance might be paying for that kind of stuff.

00:34:52.047 --> 00:34:52.427
Yeah.

00:34:52.427 --> 00:34:54.088
I, you know, I just dipped my toe in the water.

00:34:54.088 --> 00:34:56.927
I, you know, we had an existing patient that was in a motor vehicle accident.

00:34:56.958 --> 00:34:59.918
They asked if I would try to bill their med pay through their insurance.

00:34:59.918 --> 00:35:06.807
And I, I tried and I said, listen, I, I can't, we're two people, like some bigger offices, they have billing departments.

00:35:06.807 --> 00:35:08.257
They have somebody that's a billing specialist.

00:35:08.257 --> 00:35:09.387
I just can't do that.

00:35:10.047 --> 00:35:16.277
But I was just wanting to run, um, My business in a way that was fair, that was lean, and it just made sense.

00:35:16.277 --> 00:35:18.427
And those aren't the skills that you learned in school.

00:35:18.958 --> 00:35:28.688
And so I learned a lot from friends and people who were on the path before me that helped me avoid the major pitfalls, but a lot of it's trial by fire and just figuring it out.

00:35:28.978 --> 00:35:30.827
And also just, I try to just be a good person.

00:35:30.958 --> 00:35:31.327
Right.

00:35:31.617 --> 00:35:32.748
I think that goes a long way.

00:35:32.887 --> 00:35:42.538
Well, and you strike me as the kind of person that's probably, it's hard for you to spend more than you, you know, Earned kind of like philosophically, maybe that's not true.

00:35:42.588 --> 00:35:51.038
I, you know, it's interesting what starting a business does to your money mindset, like what I used to think was like a lot of money, right?

00:35:51.128 --> 00:35:52.666
I don't think it's a lot of money anymore.

00:35:52.666 --> 00:35:57.838
My rent is, you know, what I used to pay as my gross income.

00:35:58.228 --> 00:35:59.307
100%.

00:35:59.697 --> 00:36:04.717
And so it's cool, like it's cool to expand your mindset in ways like that.

00:36:04.717 --> 00:36:14.907
And being a business owner, I think does that in a lot of ways if you let it, but, um, what's the investment for a chiropractic degree kind of thing for enough, like to get through school.

00:36:15.557 --> 00:36:19.228
So I graduated with about 185, 000.

00:36:19.228 --> 00:36:29.367
And I will tell you, because of interest rates on student loans, I probably owe like 50, 000 more now than when I graduated and I've never missed a payment.

00:36:29.748 --> 00:36:30.728
The system is rigged, man.

00:36:30.728 --> 00:36:31.588
Oh, that's so gross.

00:36:31.637 --> 00:36:32.288
It's okay.

00:36:32.387 --> 00:36:32.748
Yeah.

00:36:32.947 --> 00:36:38.612
And, you know, there's, uh, I just listened to a really interesting book called A Happy Pocketful of Money.

00:36:39.202 --> 00:36:43.152
And it was this whole like money mindset thing, but it was all rooted in quantum physics.

00:36:43.152 --> 00:36:48.902
It was super interesting and a really quick, easy read if anybody listening has any interest in any of that.

00:36:49.262 --> 00:36:52.612
But it really was about how to change your mindset about money and money.

00:36:52.643 --> 00:36:53.983
It's all just energy, right?

00:36:53.992 --> 00:36:59.032
If, if, if we hold it too tight, it's not going to flow to us either.

00:36:59.523 --> 00:37:04.052
And so I think that's something that being a business owner has taught me is that, you know.

00:37:04.547 --> 00:37:07.128
It's like some people will say you gotta spend it, you gotta spend it to make it.

00:37:07.128 --> 00:37:07.568
Yeah, yeah.

00:37:07.887 --> 00:37:09.007
I think there's some truth to that.

00:37:09.038 --> 00:37:09.447
Yeah, yeah.

00:37:09.887 --> 00:37:20.818
I, uh, I've been saying lately, especially since like the European energy crisis stuff and whatever, that, uh, energy is more like money than money is like money.

00:37:21.168 --> 00:37:22.938
Because you can't just print energy.

00:37:23.018 --> 00:37:23.268
Right.

00:37:23.838 --> 00:37:24.137
Right.

00:37:24.137 --> 00:37:35.148
You got to dig it out of the ground or collect it from the sun or spin the little blades or it's going to be harvested from somewhere from somewhere it's going to take some effort, you know, which is why gold used to be money wasn't that easy to find.

00:37:35.148 --> 00:37:36.797
You had to freaking look hard for it.

00:37:36.797 --> 00:37:38.418
So that took energy.

00:37:38.847 --> 00:37:40.757
Uh, same kind of thing, like you're talking about here.

00:37:40.788 --> 00:37:41.748
Yeah, it's true.

00:37:42.447 --> 00:37:48.117
Um, so a little bit, a little bit probably on the business, uh, lessons.

00:37:48.117 --> 00:37:57.057
Have you, you mentioned three, uh, real strong associates so far in 10 years almost, or nine plus years.

00:37:57.068 --> 00:37:57.617
Exactly.

00:37:57.648 --> 00:37:58.648
So that's pretty impressive.

00:37:58.818 --> 00:37:59.807
It's, it's awesome.

00:37:59.838 --> 00:38:02.498
And I wish I could have kept all of them for different reasons.

00:38:03.018 --> 00:38:06.257
And I also acknowledge that like people pursue their own dreams.

00:38:06.257 --> 00:38:07.438
Yeah, absolutely.

00:38:08.202 --> 00:38:12.193
Um, and then you also had a, uh, an associate doctor.

00:38:12.213 --> 00:38:13.503
For a very short period of time.

00:38:13.532 --> 00:38:13.913
Okay.

00:38:13.913 --> 00:38:15.253
And that was at this past year?

00:38:16.262 --> 00:38:16.893
Oh gosh.

00:38:16.902 --> 00:38:20.762
No, I think that was in 2023.

00:38:20.842 --> 00:38:21.213
Okay.

00:38:21.282 --> 00:38:21.833
Yeah.

00:38:22.123 --> 00:38:23.963
And was this, this wasn't an intern?

00:38:24.213 --> 00:38:24.543
It wasn't?

00:38:24.563 --> 00:38:25.543
No, I.

00:38:25.572 --> 00:38:26.802
Somebody that had been established.

00:38:26.802 --> 00:38:29.222
Had hired a fairly new grad.

00:38:29.362 --> 00:38:29.632
Okay.

00:38:30.112 --> 00:38:34.913
And I like to think of it as my very expensive learning experience.

00:38:36.233 --> 00:38:36.623
Fair enough.

00:38:36.663 --> 00:38:36.983
Yeah.

00:38:37.402 --> 00:38:37.782
Yeah.

00:38:37.813 --> 00:38:38.943
It was, it was difficult.

00:38:38.963 --> 00:38:44.847
It, you know, I think it, As much as you try not to take those things personally, and you just realize people are going through their own shit.

00:38:45.467 --> 00:38:47.688
And that's a reflection of the choices that they make.

00:38:47.728 --> 00:38:52.862
Um, it was, it was, It was something that I thought about every single day after it happened.

00:38:52.862 --> 00:38:54.932
It just was very hurtful.

00:38:54.932 --> 00:39:05.922
And, you know, I think I tried, I set a place at the table, like a salary kind of thing, and then they had to eat, but they didn't really have an incentive necessarily build their base.

00:39:05.963 --> 00:39:07.873
Well, it was, yeah, a little more to it than that.

00:39:07.873 --> 00:39:15.543
I think in the beginning, we didn't really even get through the phase where they were trained enough to be able to see patients on their own way kind of thing.

00:39:15.543 --> 00:39:15.742
Yeah.

00:39:15.793 --> 00:39:16.163
Yeah.

00:39:16.163 --> 00:39:17.813
And so it was pretty short lived.

00:39:17.822 --> 00:39:23.802
I, I learned a lot from that experience, uh, things I will do differently in the future when I go down that road again.

00:39:24.463 --> 00:39:27.072
And I'm to the point where I don't think about it every single day.

00:39:27.143 --> 00:39:27.492
Right.

00:39:27.563 --> 00:39:28.163
So that's a good thing.

00:39:28.163 --> 00:39:29.132
Well, it's a nice thing about a chiropractic.

00:39:29.907 --> 00:39:34.717
Businesses, you can be, if you can be efficient with your time, you can see a lot of patients in a day.

00:39:34.757 --> 00:39:35.228
For sure.

00:39:35.257 --> 00:39:38.307
I see an average day is probably about 40 patients.

00:39:38.318 --> 00:39:38.947
Wow.

00:39:38.998 --> 00:39:39.378
Okay.

00:39:39.728 --> 00:39:40.648
So that's quite efficient already.

00:39:40.648 --> 00:39:41.027
Peopling.

00:39:41.628 --> 00:39:43.577
Yeah, that's exactly.

00:39:43.597 --> 00:39:43.838
Dang.

00:39:43.838 --> 00:39:45.947
I didn't really realize the scope of that.

00:39:46.418 --> 00:39:48.788
And those are established patients, new patient interactions.

00:39:48.797 --> 00:39:50.527
Of course we sit down with them.

00:39:50.757 --> 00:39:52.398
Yeah.

00:39:52.398 --> 00:39:55.088
But otherwise we're just in the flow and we're seeing folks that are on the path.

00:39:55.097 --> 00:39:55.288
Yeah.

00:39:55.288 --> 00:39:56.887
We're just moving and grooving.

00:39:56.887 --> 00:39:57.188
Yeah.

00:39:58.077 --> 00:40:02.458
Um, so I feel like probably we could jump in the time machine.

00:40:02.487 --> 00:40:06.327
Um, does it make sense to go all the way back or should we go back to the origin story?

00:40:06.407 --> 00:40:07.588
I was born on a Monday.

00:40:08.057 --> 00:40:15.163
The question I really wanted to ask was, was the person that Impacted your life in chiropractic also a She was not.

00:40:15.163 --> 00:40:16.302
upper cranial person?

00:40:16.333 --> 00:40:17.452
Or how did you Upper cervical.

00:40:17.882 --> 00:40:18.322
Upper cervical?

00:40:18.333 --> 00:40:18.762
That's okay.

00:40:18.833 --> 00:40:22.342
How did you get that specialty direction going?

00:40:22.422 --> 00:40:24.762
So I was living in Crested Butte.

00:40:24.913 --> 00:40:25.222
Okay.

00:40:25.572 --> 00:40:29.112
And live in the Lifestyle that comes along with that.

00:40:29.112 --> 00:40:33.643
I was, you know, probably skied a hundred plus days in the winter and learn how to mountain bike when I lived out there.

00:40:33.652 --> 00:40:34.612
Like I said, I was a city kid.

00:40:34.623 --> 00:40:35.632
What did you do for money?

00:40:35.733 --> 00:40:39.972
I worked for the ski area for several years, right?

00:40:40.103 --> 00:40:41.552
So I did a year of AmeriCorps after.

00:40:41.603 --> 00:40:42.052
Okay.

00:40:42.827 --> 00:40:47.197
undergrad, because it turns out our degree didn't prove to be terribly useful.

00:40:47.197 --> 00:40:49.628
AmeriCorps was super, uh, that was pretty cool.

00:40:49.628 --> 00:40:51.617
That's why I got involved with Habitat for Humanity.

00:40:51.757 --> 00:40:57.547
So anyways, yeah, I worked, I volunteered with a, uh, AmeriCorps team on a Habitat house some years ago.

00:40:57.547 --> 00:40:57.637
Yeah.

00:40:57.637 --> 00:40:58.148
Very cool.

00:40:58.168 --> 00:41:00.367
So yeah, that was my, and that's how I ended up on the board of directors here.

00:41:00.398 --> 00:41:00.717
Okay.

00:41:00.827 --> 00:41:12.128
But anyways, um, moved across Dubuque through just crazy set of life circumstances and, you know, it, those were fun years, right?

00:41:12.128 --> 00:41:12.878
You know, the early.

00:41:14.242 --> 00:41:17.873
And I was just crashing all the things I was crashing, learning how to ski.

00:41:17.873 --> 00:41:20.333
I was crashing, learning how to ride a bike, how to date boys.

00:41:20.873 --> 00:41:21.543
Yeah, that too.

00:41:21.762 --> 00:41:22.342
That was, yeah.

00:41:22.492 --> 00:41:22.963
Maybe you had one already.

00:41:23.262 --> 00:41:23.842
I don't know.

00:41:23.842 --> 00:41:27.373
Uh, no, the Crested Beauty, at least back then, that was 20 years ago.

00:41:27.373 --> 00:41:30.003
There was the saying, the, the odds are good for women.

00:41:30.032 --> 00:41:32.472
The odds are good, but the goods are odd.

00:41:34.253 --> 00:41:36.023
And that was totally true.

00:41:36.023 --> 00:41:40.632
Although I did end up meeting my future husband at Crested Beauty, so that's a huge win.

00:41:41.293 --> 00:41:44.793
But anyways, because I was just beating myself up all the time.

00:41:44.793 --> 00:41:48.543
And like, literally every time I get back from a bike ride, I've had this raging headache.

00:41:48.543 --> 00:41:54.643
And I'm like, I can't keep going like this because at some point you realize like, okay, I've got to go on a bike ride.

00:41:54.782 --> 00:41:55.672
I'm going to get a headache.

00:41:55.722 --> 00:42:00.132
I'm going to pop a couple of ibuprofen, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.

00:42:00.132 --> 00:42:07.782
And I'm like, which is temporarily correcting the issue, but it's not getting to the cause of why that's happening.

00:42:08.213 --> 00:42:10.603
And so, you know, my hip was hurting, all kinds of stuff.

00:42:10.603 --> 00:42:10.952
And I was.

00:42:11.358 --> 00:42:20.007
Barely 30 years old, 31 years old, maybe, and I was like, well, I should probably do something about this and a friend of mine in town was like, go see Dr.

00:42:20.007 --> 00:42:20.338
Mimi.

00:42:20.367 --> 00:42:22.228
She's a great chiropractor in town.

00:42:22.838 --> 00:42:23.498
And so I did.

00:42:24.168 --> 00:42:26.418
And of course, my body started to feel better.

00:42:26.418 --> 00:42:29.788
And she was a, you know, very, you know, Traditional adjuster, like adjusted the full spine.

00:42:29.788 --> 00:42:36.268
And because we were in a very active town, she would adjust your wrists and your legs and all the things that feel great when you walked out of there.

00:42:36.268 --> 00:42:38.737
And you, I felt really well loved when I walked out of there too.

00:42:38.737 --> 00:42:42.697
And it was very different than any other like doctor experience, right?

00:42:42.697 --> 00:42:45.657
It was personal and it was friendly, right?

00:42:45.708 --> 00:42:46.717
More like a massage.

00:42:47.257 --> 00:42:47.657
Yeah.

00:42:47.657 --> 00:42:49.027
And there was a different connection there.

00:42:49.027 --> 00:42:57.032
And I also think there was something really appealing to me at that time, even before I knew any of this, that, I was working with my body.

00:42:57.032 --> 00:43:00.023
I wasn't taking anything from the outside and putting it in there.

00:43:00.023 --> 00:43:02.342
I was just working with the good things that I already had.

00:43:02.552 --> 00:43:02.902
Right.

00:43:03.623 --> 00:43:06.172
And so of course my body started feeling better.

00:43:06.172 --> 00:43:12.972
But at that time, like I was dealing with some weird like thyroid imbalance and I redid my blood work and everything normalized.

00:43:13.083 --> 00:43:15.288
And I was like, That's interesting.

00:43:15.608 --> 00:43:17.088
And so the next time I went in to see Dr.

00:43:17.088 --> 00:43:18.807
Meavy, I said, Hey, this is happening.

00:43:18.807 --> 00:43:21.367
She's like, Jade, haven't I taught you anything?

00:43:22.038 --> 00:43:28.018
And it's, you know, a lot of the stuff that you and I were talking about before that really every organ and tissue in your body is connected to the one under your hat.

00:43:28.057 --> 00:43:28.407
Right.

00:43:28.478 --> 00:43:32.438
And if those lines of communication aren't open, there's an obstruction there.

00:43:32.487 --> 00:43:32.717
Yeah.

00:43:32.768 --> 00:43:34.088
Things are not going to work the way they should.

00:43:34.097 --> 00:43:36.307
So you're not just feeling like looser.

00:43:36.307 --> 00:43:37.157
You're feeling just like.

00:43:38.027 --> 00:43:38.297
Better.

00:43:38.297 --> 00:43:38.978
More connected.

00:43:39.137 --> 00:43:39.518
Yeah, right.

00:43:40.277 --> 00:43:42.958
It's, things are firing all cylinders.

00:43:43.438 --> 00:43:47.728
And so it just got me thinking and I was, I was a 9 1 1 dispatcher for the last four years.

00:43:47.728 --> 00:43:48.777
I lived over in Gunnison County.

00:43:48.978 --> 00:43:49.007
Okay.

00:43:49.018 --> 00:43:51.288
That was the craziest job I ever thought I'd have.

00:43:51.288 --> 00:43:51.554
Right.

00:43:51.554 --> 00:43:54.228
Take some interesting phone calls in that role, I imagine.

00:43:54.228 --> 00:43:54.494
Totally.

00:43:54.494 --> 00:43:56.632
But at that time she started planning this.

00:43:56.632 --> 00:44:00.373
She's like, you know, you'd be a great chiropractor and I'm like, Okay, thanks.

00:44:00.373 --> 00:44:03.027
But then Those seeds took root somehow.

00:44:03.027 --> 00:44:08.128
And so the school that I ended up going to in Atlanta, um, they offer what's called a life leadership weekend.

00:44:08.128 --> 00:44:11.097
So prospective students can, they'll just come check it out.

00:44:11.097 --> 00:44:21.478
Almost host these weekends where they, you know, exactly like you can connect with doctors in the areas, current students tour the campus and just start to understand like, Hey, this, this is what it would be like.

00:44:21.478 --> 00:44:23.398
And so I said, well, I'm going to go in Westside.

00:44:23.547 --> 00:44:28.168
I don't even think we had been dating that long, maybe about a year and maybe a year and a half.

00:44:28.217 --> 00:44:29.878
I don't remember exactly, but.

00:44:30.327 --> 00:44:36.097
I was like, I'm going to go out there and do this weekend and I'll know it's either a yes or a no, but I'm done.

00:44:36.277 --> 00:44:40.228
Yeah, and I got there and I'll probably tell you probably within the first couple hours.

00:44:40.237 --> 00:44:58.347
I was like, I was like, I'm going to have to, yeah, from literal paradise in Crested View with a guy that I just kind of started dating and I was super into, and we, you know, we were living together and I was like, how, how is this even going to happen?

00:44:58.347 --> 00:44:59.398
So that's how it started.

00:44:59.398 --> 00:44:59.628
But.

00:45:00.172 --> 00:45:08.503
She was not an upper cervical specialist, but I do remember distinctly having a conversation with her before I left for school.

00:45:08.552 --> 00:45:09.603
And she's like, you're going to go to school.

00:45:09.603 --> 00:45:14.483
And I had to do six months of undergrad prerequisites because I didn't have a science based undergrad degree.

00:45:14.963 --> 00:45:18.722
And so she's like, we'll take the first six months and your course load is going to be lighter.

00:45:19.152 --> 00:45:25.132
And there's a bunch of different technique clubs on campus where you can, you know, just see like, This is only one way to do it.

00:45:25.172 --> 00:45:26.893
There's a lot of ways to do this.

00:45:27.313 --> 00:45:35.693
And she's like, there's chiropractors who adjust by hand, there's chiropractors that use an instrument, there's chiropractors that use a certain, uh, types of equipment.

00:45:35.742 --> 00:45:39.833
And she's like, there's even chiropractors that really just focus on the top bone in the neck.

00:45:40.253 --> 00:45:44.097
I don't, I remember in that moment looking at her, I'm like, Well, that's crazy.

00:45:44.128 --> 00:45:45.617
Why would they just do that?

00:45:46.438 --> 00:45:47.228
And here we are.

00:45:47.487 --> 00:45:47.728
Yeah.

00:45:47.858 --> 00:45:50.668
Because, to me, it just made sense.

00:45:50.717 --> 00:45:55.657
By doing this one thing, it can influence every other thing.

00:45:55.748 --> 00:45:56.617
And it's true.

00:45:56.657 --> 00:46:03.557
And, in fact, some of the original techniques that were upper cervical focused, it was called HIO, and it stood for hole in one.

00:46:03.733 --> 00:46:12.612
And, you know, that has the sort of the double meaning, like, you know, it's like you're just getting the whole thing because it is a chain that works from the top down.

00:46:13.193 --> 00:46:18.083
And then the other meeting, it's like, it's the whole W H O L E in one.

00:46:18.123 --> 00:46:19.583
I can't believe I haven't like.

00:46:20.358 --> 00:46:23.387
Actually talk to you about my straight neck situation properly.

00:46:23.387 --> 00:46:23.628
It's silly.

00:46:23.693 --> 00:46:23.893
That's okay.

00:46:23.893 --> 00:46:29.148
And silly, you know, sometimes I get people that come in and they have lower back pain or sciatic nerve pain and I'm like, I'm gonna look at that.

00:46:29.478 --> 00:46:34.458
But we're gonna search upstream to make sure that some of the roots aren't upper right in the upper neck.

00:46:34.487 --> 00:46:39.077
And I can't even tell you if I had a nickel for every time I adjusted somebody's neck and they're like, oh, my low back feels better.

00:46:39.077 --> 00:46:40.307
It's like, of course it does.

00:46:40.307 --> 00:46:48.108
Well, and that's what I'm, I'm wondering to myself, there probably wasn't,'cause I've met with maybe three chiropractors over the years, um, but none of them.

00:46:48.893 --> 00:46:53.802
Had any kind of specialty in that space or whatever, you know, it wasn't really a thing.

00:46:54.072 --> 00:46:55.532
It's been a thing for a long time.

00:46:55.532 --> 00:47:08.592
And I think probably a lot of docs don't want to do it because, you know, we get some upper cervical coursework in school, but I don't think it's really enough to feel confident going into practice, just saying, Hey, this is what I focus on.

00:47:09.172 --> 00:47:15.873
So it took a lot of extra time outside of school and conferences, seminars, different technique organizations, not making money really.

00:47:16.092 --> 00:47:16.393
Right.

00:47:16.432 --> 00:47:18.862
Well, even when you're a student, right.

00:47:18.873 --> 00:47:23.052
And so, and then you have to have a certain kind of mind to want to do what I do.

00:47:23.472 --> 00:47:29.273
There's a lot of math, there's a lot of physics, and there's a lot of calculation that goes in.

00:47:29.432 --> 00:47:30.922
What patients see is the easy part.

00:47:30.932 --> 00:47:31.552
The adjustment.

00:47:32.132 --> 00:47:37.043
when it comes time, when that person's on my table and everything's lined up, that adjustment is easy as pie.

00:47:37.043 --> 00:47:50.963
In fact, sometimes I tell people, especially people who are a little bit nervous or skeptical, I'm like, this is probably going to be the most underwhelming thing you've experienced all day because the adjustment itself is very gentle because I'm not trying to move things miles.

00:47:50.963 --> 00:47:54.932
I'm trying to move things literally millimeters, but in the exact right direction.

00:47:55.182 --> 00:47:57.943
And all of the work that goes in.

00:47:58.268 --> 00:48:02.217
To that moment, leading up to the delivery of that adjustment, that's the hard work.

00:48:02.288 --> 00:48:05.628
And you still actually use kind of like math and Oh yeah.

00:48:05.637 --> 00:48:18.588
It's more based on imaging and Well, it's all image based, but then there's a lot of, well, I'm not like literally doing math on paper, but what I learned, like you had, you know, you held little clear things up to x rays on a light box and Sure, and you're like, this is You know, it's all digital.

00:48:18.588 --> 00:48:22.128
This is what a millimeter looks like on a piece of film.

00:48:23.447 --> 00:48:24.527
Yeah, whatever.

00:48:24.588 --> 00:48:24.797
Yep.

00:48:25.188 --> 00:48:25.708
Interesting.

00:48:26.068 --> 00:48:34.478
Um, let's, uh, that kind of is the origin, so let's zoom back to, are you good at potty break or anything like that?

00:48:34.478 --> 00:48:35.347
I'm good, thanks for asking.

00:48:35.358 --> 00:48:37.248
Your water's still rockin Yeah, I forgot about it.

00:48:37.248 --> 00:48:39.418
Uh, let's rock into kindergarten.

00:49:23.463 --> 00:49:27.617
You were an East Coast girl, you mentioned, before you, AmeriCorps took you to kindergarten.

00:49:28.148 --> 00:49:30.518
Yeah, I was born and raised in New York City.

00:49:30.588 --> 00:49:31.378
Okay, really?

00:49:31.418 --> 00:49:32.478
Yeah, which part?

00:49:32.708 --> 00:49:33.137
Manhattan.

00:49:33.347 --> 00:49:33.688
Okay.

00:49:33.737 --> 00:49:35.487
Lower East Side, 27th and 2nd.

00:49:35.557 --> 00:49:39.487
Okay, and what, what was the, the family situation?

00:49:40.057 --> 00:49:41.867
Siblings, parents, what were they doing?

00:49:41.927 --> 00:49:46.797
So, my folks, they both worked for their whole career.

00:49:46.847 --> 00:49:47.608
I have a younger brother.

00:49:47.617 --> 00:49:48.108
I look like a parent.

00:49:48.188 --> 00:49:49.788
Yes, you do.

00:49:50.038 --> 00:49:51.077
And I, that's a big compliment.

00:49:51.088 --> 00:49:51.927
Would he wear this sweater?

00:49:51.938 --> 00:49:52.728
He would wear that sweater.

00:49:52.777 --> 00:49:54.068
He'd definitely rock that sweater, Kurt.

00:49:54.657 --> 00:49:55.208
Um.

00:49:56.507 --> 00:49:59.898
My parents both worked for the New York City Board of Education in special ed.

00:49:59.898 --> 00:50:07.688
My mom taught some of the most, um, you know, in some of the most profoundly impacted autistic classrooms.

00:50:08.027 --> 00:50:11.987
Um, so that was really awesome to see growing up.

00:50:12.088 --> 00:50:16.648
And my dad ended up still working for the city, but in more of an evaluator role.

00:50:16.648 --> 00:50:36.648
So he made sure kids were placed in the proper classrooms that, They would be able to receive the services that they needed, but all of the special education landscape, that's a really interesting, uh, on the autism side, like I think of autism kind of as something that's really, well, it has blossomed so much more the last 20, 25 years, for sure.

00:50:36.748 --> 00:50:37.047
Right.

00:50:37.068 --> 00:50:38.527
But a place like New York city.

00:50:38.677 --> 00:50:38.847
Yeah.

00:50:39.672 --> 00:50:41.222
Would kind of be a canary in the coal mine.

00:50:41.233 --> 00:50:48.762
They're like, Hey, we've got enough of these kids that have this characteristic because there's just so many people, like in North Dakota, there's like four kids with autism in first grade.

00:50:48.802 --> 00:50:49.163
Right.

00:50:49.943 --> 00:50:52.702
I mean, like you probably grew up in a town as big as my apartment building.

00:50:52.762 --> 00:50:57.492
Like if that a hundred, a hundred people are, I don't think my town's population ever was over a hundred.

00:50:57.552 --> 00:50:58.233
Oh yeah.

00:50:58.612 --> 00:51:00.063
It's smaller than my apartment building.

00:51:00.682 --> 00:51:04.523
And so, yeah, my brother, my brother is a two and a half years younger than me.

00:51:04.663 --> 00:51:05.483
Um, he's.

00:51:06.637 --> 00:51:08.068
Did your parents come from there too?

00:51:09.838 --> 00:51:10.197
Okay.

00:51:10.197 --> 00:51:11.025
Interesting.

00:51:11.025 --> 00:51:12.677
Yeah, yeah.

00:51:12.677 --> 00:51:13.503
Interesting.

00:51:13.503 --> 00:51:22.148
New Yorkers get a bad rap, man.

00:51:22.168 --> 00:51:23.177
I think we're pretty friendly.

00:51:23.867 --> 00:51:26.297
Well, they don't come here very much, honestly.

00:51:26.327 --> 00:51:32.898
Like, I've only met, I've met probably Ten upstate New York people for every one city person.

00:51:32.927 --> 00:51:42.568
Yeah, I that actually moves to Colorado I could tell right away when I have a patient in my conference room like when I meet somebody for the first time I'm like you're from where I from like nine times out of ten.

00:51:42.568 --> 00:51:48.177
I'm right Yeah, no Have you noticed the same like when you meet other New York people?

00:51:49.088 --> 00:51:51.688
Most of them are upstate compared to the city.

00:51:52.018 --> 00:51:52.657
I would say so.

00:51:52.688 --> 00:51:52.987
Yeah.

00:51:53.027 --> 00:51:54.688
I mean, New Yorkers think that's the center of the universe.

00:51:54.688 --> 00:51:55.387
Most of them don't leave.

00:51:55.617 --> 00:51:56.487
Like, right.

00:51:56.788 --> 00:52:06.108
It's kind of like North Dakota, except for they think it's that they're miserable people that deserve the punishment they're receiving from God in the form of weather and wind.

00:52:06.318 --> 00:52:07.657
Oh, Very different.

00:52:07.657 --> 00:52:08.648
They don't really think about it.

00:52:08.648 --> 00:52:08.858
Yeah.

00:52:08.858 --> 00:52:09.128
Kind of.

00:52:09.128 --> 00:52:10.237
That's kind of the culture.

00:52:10.288 --> 00:52:10.617
Okay.

00:52:12.068 --> 00:52:13.788
My ancestors must have been stupid.

00:52:13.788 --> 00:52:16.347
If they moved here, how the hell do I get out of here?

00:52:16.628 --> 00:52:17.458
I'd have babies here.

00:52:18.757 --> 00:52:19.577
But they're tough.

00:52:19.648 --> 00:52:20.077
Yes.

00:52:20.237 --> 00:52:20.478
Yes.

00:52:20.478 --> 00:52:22.148
And relatively innovative and smart.

00:52:22.148 --> 00:52:22.577
But yeah.

00:52:22.637 --> 00:52:22.938
Yeah.

00:52:23.307 --> 00:52:24.847
And they make fun of city people anyway.

00:52:24.918 --> 00:52:25.157
I know.

00:52:25.177 --> 00:52:25.807
Well, it's interesting.

00:52:26.057 --> 00:52:30.938
I married a guy from Mobile, Alabama, and I was so worried to have our parents meet for the first time.

00:52:30.958 --> 00:52:31.228
Okay.

00:52:31.228 --> 00:52:31.288
Thank you.

00:52:31.288 --> 00:52:31.307
Yeah.

00:52:31.307 --> 00:52:31.557
Okay.

00:52:31.717 --> 00:52:37.797
I was like, Oh my gosh, my parents are like the quintessential, like Jews from Brooklyn, right?

00:52:38.478 --> 00:52:43.387
They're loud and they're, but my parents are like, they're just the friendliest people.

00:52:43.398 --> 00:52:48.197
Well, but they're like, not to, no offense intended, but I don't think about.

00:52:48.407 --> 00:52:57.018
Special education leaders when I think Jews in Brooklyn, I think either Delhi or Banker or Well, my maiden name is Goldsmith.

00:52:57.737 --> 00:53:02.434
And so my, you know, my family, a lot of them were jewelers, like out of the line.

00:53:02.434 --> 00:53:03.007
So, yeah.

00:53:03.467 --> 00:53:06.978
So your, your family were escapees from that line of, uh, Yes.

00:53:08.018 --> 00:53:11.737
So, but they were, were, were your, were they middle class in that circumstance?

00:53:11.737 --> 00:53:12.358
Very much so.

00:53:12.358 --> 00:53:14.978
Like we grew up in rent controlled housing and, Yeah.

00:53:15.047 --> 00:53:18.952
Um, you know, I think Of course, they were stable jobs, though.

00:53:18.972 --> 00:53:19.713
Yes, very much.

00:53:20.012 --> 00:53:21.143
You know, exactly.

00:53:21.143 --> 00:53:24.152
So you didn't have much fear of no future.

00:53:24.163 --> 00:53:26.672
We never wanted for anything like that.

00:53:26.932 --> 00:53:31.063
Yeah, we had a really, I would say idyllic childhood and a lot of regards.

00:53:31.063 --> 00:53:33.532
Yeah, as far as having to live in New York City means.

00:53:34.552 --> 00:53:37.443
No, I'm playing, but you don't know that there's a different world out there.

00:53:37.443 --> 00:53:38.443
Like, that's where you grow up.

00:53:38.452 --> 00:53:39.552
And that's kind of free range.

00:53:39.612 --> 00:53:45.648
Like you could, when you were eight years old, You could kind of be out in the city or it was, it was kind of sketch.

00:53:45.697 --> 00:53:46.518
Oh, for sure.

00:53:46.547 --> 00:53:51.177
New York in like the eighties, there was a lot of homelessness, a lot of drug use.

00:53:51.177 --> 00:53:55.168
Like the neighborhood I grew up with was, it was pretty marginal at that time.

00:53:55.958 --> 00:53:57.398
And so I can't remember how.

00:53:58.568 --> 00:54:10.918
I must have maybe been in 5th or 6th grade when my parents would, there was a little coffee shop in the ground level of the apartment complex that I grew up in and I just remember my best friend, Athena, like, you know, they would probably hand us a 10 bill and like, go home for lunch.

00:54:10.978 --> 00:54:11.248
Right.

00:54:11.277 --> 00:54:20.137
You know, we'd ride the elevator down, we'd walk outside the lobby into the building next door to the coffee shop and like, you know, of course the days before like cell phones or anything like that.

00:54:20.137 --> 00:54:20.157
Sure.

00:54:20.157 --> 00:54:20.467
Sure.

00:54:20.773 --> 00:54:25.322
But I'm just curious of the culture what it really looks like to grow up, you know, be a young person.

00:54:25.722 --> 00:54:34.443
Yeah I thought it was really cool I mean the places that we went on class trips or places that like people plan their vacations around And I was just like our backyard, right?

00:54:34.483 --> 00:54:39.083
But then the other side of that it's like I didn't learn how to drive until I was 22 years old It was oh, wow, terrifying.

00:54:39.083 --> 00:54:46.532
Okay Um, you know, people played sports where they had fields, like stuff like that.

00:54:46.873 --> 00:54:47.603
It's just really different.

00:54:47.623 --> 00:54:47.983
Yeah.

00:54:47.983 --> 00:54:58.132
So talk to me about like, what were like the, cause I always think about sports, you know, being the, whether it's track or soccer teams or different things like that, but what do, what do city kids?

00:54:58.143 --> 00:54:59.342
So I played a lot of basketball.

00:54:59.362 --> 00:54:59.773
Get into it.

00:54:59.773 --> 00:55:00.373
Okay, sure.

00:55:00.432 --> 00:55:05.313
And that's, that was my love when I was in high school and even getting into college.

00:55:05.353 --> 00:55:05.693
All right.

00:55:05.813 --> 00:55:07.693
And I, we played softball too, but it was interesting.

00:55:07.693 --> 00:55:08.302
We like, we had to.

00:55:08.632 --> 00:55:17.202
Shlep, all of our equipment on the subway, like, you know, somebody would carry a bag of bats and the balls and all the, you know, catcher's gear and all that stuff.

00:55:17.693 --> 00:55:23.282
And we would ride the subway to like Central Park or a place that had a park, a public park that had fields.

00:55:23.902 --> 00:55:26.538
And that's where we would play our games.

00:55:26.838 --> 00:55:28.338
I got a bag full of balls.

00:55:28.358 --> 00:55:29.588
Well, I mean, that's all again.

00:55:29.588 --> 00:55:30.657
It's like, that's what we did.

00:55:30.668 --> 00:55:31.617
And it was pretty cool.

00:55:31.617 --> 00:55:33.797
You ride the subway home and you're like, no, he's going to fuck with me.

00:55:33.797 --> 00:55:35.887
I got a bag of baseball bats right now.

00:55:36.728 --> 00:55:37.277
It was good.

00:55:37.518 --> 00:55:37.728
Yeah.

00:55:37.728 --> 00:55:39.447
Well, plus you're part of a team, probably all right.

00:55:39.507 --> 00:55:42.097
Well, on the way, on the way there, but then we all live different places.

00:55:42.097 --> 00:55:43.987
So we would all go our separate ways on the way home.

00:55:44.068 --> 00:55:44.307
Yeah.

00:55:44.338 --> 00:55:46.858
We would divvy up the gear and you'd bring it back to school the next day.

00:55:46.858 --> 00:55:49.697
And how was your, um, academic pursuits?

00:55:49.708 --> 00:55:51.907
Were you a smarty pants early?

00:55:52.237 --> 00:55:57.217
I was, I, you know, I just, I'm wired to thrive in that kind of environment.

00:55:57.217 --> 00:55:58.297
I loved school.

00:55:58.297 --> 00:56:01.077
I was always like a great test taker.

00:56:01.077 --> 00:56:03.838
And yeah, it's not that I always loved learning.

00:56:04.088 --> 00:56:10.657
Cause I think as I've gotten older, like when you figure out what you actually love and what you're passionate about, I'll learn this, learning that's easier.

00:56:10.657 --> 00:56:16.788
But I mean, I, I always was a really good student and you know, just brain that takes tests really well.

00:56:16.818 --> 00:56:20.577
Well, and, and cultural pressure too, right?

00:56:20.628 --> 00:56:22.518
Like the, between the Japanese and the.

00:56:22.753 --> 00:56:40.148
Jewish, uh, there's a couple of cultures that just have a real Yeah, I mean, maybe stereotypically, stereotypically, but in the actual numbers, too But in my family, I guess, like, there was never that pressure It never felt like outsider's pressure No No But just kind of cultural expectation for sure.

00:56:40.177 --> 00:56:46.228
But I also felt like it gave me the, you know, the balance of like, Hey, I'm going to perform well in school and I'm not going to screw this up.

00:56:46.597 --> 00:56:48.447
So I'm also going to stay out till like three in the morning.

00:56:48.447 --> 00:56:54.288
Like cultural makeup of like the neighbors and the schools and stuff.

00:56:54.288 --> 00:56:57.952
Was it like, there's like everything like blacks and Puerto Ricans and whites.

00:56:57.952 --> 00:56:58.164
Everything.

00:56:58.164 --> 00:57:06.978
And I think I like, I'm still actually really good friends with a lot of people that I went to elementary school with and we have all commented like if everybody's.

00:57:07.333 --> 00:57:10.552
kindergarten class photo looked as diverse as ours.

00:57:10.552 --> 00:57:20.623
I think the world would be a better place because you don't learn intolerance for, Anybody, when you grow up in a place like that, you just, you're just kids and you like who you like.

00:57:20.623 --> 00:57:23.092
It doesn't matter what flesh suit they're wearing.

00:57:23.132 --> 00:57:27.193
Well, I think New York city has probably been known for that for a long time in general.

00:57:27.242 --> 00:57:28.112
I would imagine so.

00:57:28.152 --> 00:57:28.362
Right.

00:57:28.362 --> 00:57:30.402
It's been kind of a melting.

00:57:30.702 --> 00:57:31.083
Pot.

00:57:31.413 --> 00:57:34.643
I call a Fort Collins, a, uh, a white cheese fondue.

00:57:35.612 --> 00:57:37.333
Cause there's people from all over the country.

00:57:37.862 --> 00:57:40.092
They're just all white people from all over the country.

00:57:40.182 --> 00:57:43.592
I know, you know, that's been a really difficult thing about living in Colorado.

00:57:43.592 --> 00:57:48.563
Like I do miss the diversity of, and there's honestly, like I've had the privilege of traveling a lot of places.

00:57:48.572 --> 00:57:49.722
There's no place like New York city.

00:57:49.922 --> 00:57:50.492
Oh, I'm sure.

00:57:50.592 --> 00:57:50.893
Yeah.

00:57:51.313 --> 00:57:52.063
Uh, I spent about.

00:57:53.123 --> 00:57:56.393
30 hours in New York City on one trip, and that's all so far.

00:57:56.393 --> 00:57:57.902
So that's probably why I asked.

00:57:57.963 --> 00:58:00.052
You got to go and you got to hire my dad, Phil, to be your tour guide.

00:58:00.063 --> 00:58:02.242
So did you, as you're getting ready to be.

00:58:02.972 --> 00:58:03.773
Uh, going off.

00:58:03.773 --> 00:58:06.393
Did you go to college directly first?

00:58:06.552 --> 00:58:06.943
I did.

00:58:06.983 --> 00:58:08.262
So I graduated from high school.

00:58:08.913 --> 00:58:12.172
I went straight to undergrad because that's, I guess, what you did.

00:58:12.202 --> 00:58:13.302
And where?

00:58:13.313 --> 00:58:13.592
What?

00:58:13.663 --> 00:58:15.333
I went to school in Binghamton, New York.

00:58:15.333 --> 00:58:18.902
So about four hours away from the city, like sort of Western New York, Finger Lakes ish.

00:58:19.202 --> 00:58:21.693
It's about an hour away from Syracuse, Ithaca.

00:58:21.693 --> 00:58:23.806
Which, the Finger Lakes are really cool looking on a geographic map.

00:58:23.806 --> 00:58:24.422
Super pretty.

00:58:24.902 --> 00:58:25.592
Yes.

00:58:25.592 --> 00:58:27.362
It's, I think that's pretty cool.

00:58:27.992 --> 00:58:29.463
One of the most beautiful parts of the country.

00:58:29.523 --> 00:58:30.603
I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't doubt it.

00:58:30.663 --> 00:58:31.943
And the Adirondacks, super pretty.

00:58:31.943 --> 00:58:37.193
So I, I, you know, you're what, 18 and you go to undergrad and you're like, Oh, I like that.

00:58:37.583 --> 00:58:37.862
art.

00:58:37.893 --> 00:58:38.992
I like making pictures.

00:58:39.302 --> 00:58:40.393
So that's what I'm going to do.

00:58:40.443 --> 00:58:40.672
Yeah.

00:58:40.902 --> 00:58:42.172
But undergrad was awesome.

00:58:42.182 --> 00:58:46.422
Like I, again, just like, do you like be a graphic designer?

00:58:46.432 --> 00:58:46.663
Yes.

00:58:47.132 --> 00:58:50.342
So that was like my focus with my art degree was photography and graphic design.

00:58:50.342 --> 00:58:56.103
So some of the graphic design skills that I learned and gosh, when I learned, I mean, I was looking at your hat, is your hat yours?

00:58:56.833 --> 00:58:59.342
That was a joint effort.

00:58:59.413 --> 00:58:59.702
Okay.

00:59:00.112 --> 00:59:03.353
You gave some feedback to somebody that's more skilled, fresher.

00:59:03.663 --> 00:59:09.603
Well, you know, when I learned we were literally Making things with like t squares and exacto knives.

00:59:09.893 --> 00:59:10.333
I'm not kidding.

00:59:10.362 --> 00:59:20.952
That makes me sound really old We were also developing actual film with chemicals and printing them on paper Right, and that's just how the world was when I was an undergrad.

00:59:21.242 --> 00:59:24.902
Oh You're not nearly as old as me, but I'm very close.

00:59:24.992 --> 00:59:25.572
Are you really?

00:59:25.572 --> 00:59:26.342
I'm 50.

00:59:26.342 --> 00:59:27.353
I turned 50 this summer.

00:59:27.382 --> 00:59:28.862
I am 46 Okay.

00:59:28.862 --> 00:59:29.143
Yeah.

00:59:29.452 --> 00:59:35.838
So yeah, so you experienced a world without Cell phones, at least a little bit, you know, as you were a teenager.

00:59:35.838 --> 00:59:36.938
Rotary phones, all the things.

00:59:36.938 --> 00:59:37.378
Totally.

00:59:37.387 --> 00:59:37.688
Yeah.

00:59:37.688 --> 00:59:38.217
Interesting.

00:59:38.217 --> 00:59:38.568
So.

00:59:38.628 --> 00:59:38.947
Yeah.

00:59:38.987 --> 00:59:39.927
I think the world was.

00:59:40.057 --> 00:59:41.878
I put you younger in my mind's eye.

00:59:41.887 --> 00:59:43.847
I've got you like 42 or something like that.

00:59:43.907 --> 00:59:44.197
So.

00:59:44.867 --> 00:59:45.338
I'll take it.

00:59:45.398 --> 00:59:45.617
Yeah.

00:59:46.507 --> 00:59:47.418
So yeah, you're right though.

00:59:47.608 --> 00:59:49.518
None of those skills really applied 10 years later.

00:59:49.518 --> 00:59:55.257
And so, yeah, technology, I mean, it's almost like that software is planned to become obsolete in a short period of time.

00:59:55.407 --> 00:59:55.708
Right.

00:59:55.807 --> 01:00:00.268
And so, you know, when it comes to designing stuff like Canva and all that stuff nowadays, like that makes it really easy.

01:00:00.268 --> 01:00:01.418
And I love doing all that stuff.

01:00:01.597 --> 01:00:06.748
And I do a lot of work for, yeah, our graphics for my newsletter and all that stuff.

01:00:06.748 --> 01:00:14.398
I enjoy doing that stuff and I'm very particular about how things look and, um, but some stuff I just don't have the time.

01:00:14.407 --> 01:00:14.927
Well, sure.

01:00:15.407 --> 01:00:17.498
And well, it didn't sound like it was really a passion.

01:00:18.277 --> 01:00:21.018
Yeah, you know, I never really did it professionally.

01:00:21.547 --> 01:00:26.628
And so it's something that I don't, I don't think I probably would've been good at it, but that's just not where life took me.

01:00:26.788 --> 01:00:29.708
So you, so you signed right up for AmeriCorps after?

01:00:29.737 --> 01:00:31.967
So after I graduated from undergrad, I.

01:00:32.327 --> 01:00:34.947
Had no idea what I wanted to do with my life.

01:00:35.588 --> 01:00:47.018
And I had toyed around with joining the peace corps, but there were a lot of requirements as far as like, I was curious about that myself, but it was, I was from North Dakota and nobody did stuff like that.

01:00:47.768 --> 01:00:48.027
Yeah.

01:00:48.027 --> 01:00:49.117
It was a two year commitment.

01:00:49.117 --> 01:00:51.887
And I was like, okay, I can't remember exactly all the reasons.

01:00:52.038 --> 01:01:01.717
I think, you know, I don't know exactly why I chose not to pursue that, but then somebody mentioned, oh, well, they have a version of the Peace Corps that's just the United States and it's AmeriCorps.

01:01:01.768 --> 01:01:03.688
And I was like, oh, that sounds really cool.

01:01:04.108 --> 01:01:05.538
And so I applied.

01:01:05.588 --> 01:01:12.813
Actually, I hope this doesn't get too weird, but like, because I've been reading all these books that have this quantum physics lead to them.

01:01:13.742 --> 01:01:21.682
Um, I think that's the first time I actually like, manifested something in a way like, that I now understand that.

01:01:22.422 --> 01:01:27.682
It has everything to do with how your thoughts actually have a huge part in creating your reality.

01:01:28.222 --> 01:01:35.572
But I applied for this AmeriCorps position with Habitat for Humanity and you had to choose your top three geographical locations.

01:01:36.242 --> 01:01:39.103
And so my first choice was like, I grew up on the East coast.

01:01:39.103 --> 01:01:40.452
I was like, I want to experience the West coast.

01:01:40.452 --> 01:01:41.932
I want to go to Portland, Oregon.

01:01:42.483 --> 01:01:44.938
And so I, That was my number one choice.

01:01:44.938 --> 01:01:49.568
And I think my second one was like Austin, Texas, Minneapolis, it was, you know, big urban areas.

01:01:49.927 --> 01:01:50.788
And I got assigned to Portland.

01:01:50.788 --> 01:01:52.088
I was like, sweet, got my first choice.

01:01:52.697 --> 01:02:01.353
And then we all like all of the AmeriCorps placements from All across the country, we met in actually America's Georgia, where the headquarters is, and we had our big orientation.

01:02:01.373 --> 01:02:02.123
Kind of a bootcamp y thing.

01:02:02.123 --> 01:02:07.483
And I can't even tell you, I talked to everybody like, Portland was my first choice, Portland was my first choice, and I had no idea it was that competitive.

01:02:07.492 --> 01:02:09.163
And I was like, I manifested that shit.

01:02:09.983 --> 01:02:10.753
It was pretty cool.

01:02:10.983 --> 01:02:11.132
Okay.

01:02:11.163 --> 01:02:12.422
And so I, yeah.

01:02:12.853 --> 01:02:16.012
Do they, do they choose you based on like, what they think of your qualifications?

01:02:16.012 --> 01:02:17.572
Why do the other people get aced out?

01:02:17.623 --> 01:02:18.172
I don't know.

01:02:18.222 --> 01:02:21.532
Like, you know, I had an interview, like a phone interview, and then, you know.

01:02:22.632 --> 01:02:23.733
Just a ranking system or something.

01:02:23.963 --> 01:02:24.623
Maybe so.

01:02:25.052 --> 01:02:26.112
Or pulled your name out of a hat.

01:02:26.373 --> 01:02:34.012
It was a team and so I think they probably interviewed to make sure that they were trying to put together a team that they thought would get along and have good synergy and all that stuff.

01:02:34.012 --> 01:02:35.663
Different personality types and all that stuff.

01:02:35.663 --> 01:02:36.313
So I don't know.

01:02:36.612 --> 01:02:37.432
But it was really cool.

01:02:37.463 --> 01:02:39.032
They do the same thing with the exchange students.

01:02:39.358 --> 01:02:42.047
Uh, like Lenny from, from Finland that's with us now.

01:02:42.467 --> 01:02:45.637
He's like, you know, Colorado was my second choice, you know, but, um.

01:02:45.668 --> 01:02:48.148
So however I got it, it was really cool.

01:02:48.228 --> 01:02:49.617
So I got there and.

01:02:49.617 --> 01:02:51.318
And Portland's cool, especially in those days.

01:02:51.338 --> 01:02:52.978
Those days it was really cool.

01:02:53.077 --> 01:03:02.018
Um, you know, we lived in Northeast Portland and it just had a lot of flavor and again, a lot of cultural diversity, which made me feel like right at home coming from New York.

01:03:02.137 --> 01:03:04.893
Some tall buildings even, not that many, but a couple.

01:03:04.893 --> 01:03:07.782
And so I remember getting home from that orientation.

01:03:07.932 --> 01:03:15.432
in Georgia and we went to the office and they threw me the keys to the truck and they were like, back the truck up to the garage and hook up the trailer.

01:03:15.432 --> 01:03:17.532
We'll tell you which construction site we're going to go to.

01:03:17.632 --> 01:03:19.293
And I just looked at them.

01:03:19.293 --> 01:03:20.672
I was like, I can't.

01:03:21.088 --> 01:03:21.918
I can't do that.

01:03:22.117 --> 01:03:23.688
They're like, Oh, you've never towed a trailer before.

01:03:23.688 --> 01:03:25.717
We'll show you how to hook it up and it'll be fine.

01:03:25.717 --> 01:03:27.777
I'm like, no, I don't have a driver's license.

01:03:29.318 --> 01:03:30.358
They were like, what?

01:03:31.788 --> 01:03:38.907
And so that was like my first like AmeriCorps job was to learn how to drive.

01:03:39.498 --> 01:03:45.057
And they turned me loose in this, I think it was like a 1980s GMC flatbed truck.

01:03:45.507 --> 01:03:48.978
And they took me out to the Portland Speedway with this huge open parking lot.

01:03:49.418 --> 01:03:50.867
Big clunker of a stick shift.

01:03:50.878 --> 01:03:51.847
They're like, figure it out.

01:03:52.507 --> 01:03:55.108
And they're like, if you could drive this, you could drive anything.

01:03:55.688 --> 01:03:56.378
And it was true.

01:03:56.407 --> 01:04:00.748
And I, I got pretty comfortable driving around in that big clunker of a truck.

01:04:01.137 --> 01:04:10.202
And my fellow AmeriCorps member, Jim Taddeo, he drove this old minivan and he's like, you could use, he's like, you don't want to, drive a stick shift for your road test.

01:04:10.202 --> 01:04:11.713
It's like, it's just one less thing to think about.

01:04:11.713 --> 01:04:13.123
You could drive my minivan.

01:04:13.123 --> 01:04:14.222
I was like, thanks man.

01:04:14.222 --> 01:04:14.782
It was great.

01:04:15.222 --> 01:04:28.382
But he's like, just don't even come close to touching the handle of the passenger seat because the seat will just flop back flat and that's where the instructor sits.

01:04:28.382 --> 01:04:35.063
And I was like, Oh my God, I was so nervous the whole time that the instructor was just going to end up like flopping back, but it worked out.

01:04:35.072 --> 01:04:37.103
I was just telling Lenny a story last night.

01:04:37.213 --> 01:04:38.182
Uh, that's very.

01:04:38.543 --> 01:04:48.677
Um, I was bragging to the people that we were taking driver's ed with, so we got, we got a driver's license at 14 in North Dakota.

01:04:48.697 --> 01:04:49.728
That's amazing.

01:04:49.748 --> 01:04:50.768
Um, and.

01:04:51.248 --> 01:04:52.097
And terrifying.

01:04:52.177 --> 01:04:52.307
Also.

01:04:52.307 --> 01:04:57.688
And I, and I was, it was just like barely before I was going to turn 14, but I was still able to take the class.

01:04:57.688 --> 01:04:57.978
Yeah.

01:04:58.268 --> 01:05:01.518
And we were talking about who was the best driver.

01:05:02.213 --> 01:05:10.733
Um, in the class and I was like, well, clearly it's me and my, my school friends were like, well, you're always like sliding around corners and stuff like that.

01:05:11.123 --> 01:05:13.543
I was like, well, yeah, that's why I'm the best driver.

01:05:14.393 --> 01:05:22.922
And I had already logged probably five to 10, 000 miles of driving before I went to driver's ed and got my driver's license at 14.

01:05:22.922 --> 01:05:29.443
Uh, so just such a different and driving trucks full of grain, combines and tractors and whatever else.

01:05:30.722 --> 01:05:31.873
Backing up trailers.

01:05:32.952 --> 01:05:36.492
Anyway, yeah, totally different perspective there we could actually take a break anyway.

01:05:36.762 --> 01:05:37.052
You wanna?

01:05:37.052 --> 01:05:37.623
You wanna octu?

01:05:37.932 --> 01:05:38.172
Yeah.

01:05:38.262 --> 01:05:38.902
Okay, I think we should.

01:05:38.922 --> 01:05:39.413
Let's do that.

01:05:39.463 --> 01:05:39.992
All right.

01:06:29.733 --> 01:06:32.143
Um, and so, we're back.

01:06:32.713 --> 01:06:38.123
And when we broke, you were, uh, giving a driving test, uh, with a minivan.

01:06:39.298 --> 01:06:40.619
And it was successful.

01:06:40.978 --> 01:06:41.679
It was, yeah.

01:06:41.798 --> 01:06:45.108
You got your driver's license at the fine old age of 22, yeah.

01:06:46.278 --> 01:06:55.639
Um, and, uh, during the break we were talking that like, in your, like, community, in the place that you live, like, 90 percent adults Didn't really drive.

01:06:55.918 --> 01:06:58.139
Oh no, like my parents didn't own a car growing up.

01:06:58.188 --> 01:06:58.659
Really?

01:06:58.699 --> 01:07:04.128
I would venture to say that most of my classmates or their families probably didn't own cars either.

01:07:04.128 --> 01:07:05.559
I can't imagine how expensive it must have been.

01:07:05.559 --> 01:07:06.998
Did you drive subways then a lot?

01:07:07.018 --> 01:07:08.619
Yeah, we walked a lot of places.

01:07:08.849 --> 01:07:12.873
Um, you know, when it was too far to walk, we would either take the subway, City bus.

01:07:12.923 --> 01:07:14.403
Yeah, we take a cab.

01:07:14.403 --> 01:07:17.653
So like what do you want on exploring as a family and what some of these places are?

01:07:17.764 --> 01:07:20.293
Oh classes, would you take subways?

01:07:21.134 --> 01:07:26.204
Sometimes I mean there were school buses that would take us on class trips Like I never wrote a school bus to school, right?

01:07:26.204 --> 01:07:32.373
Right, we would walk we walked to elementary and junior high and when I got to high school I would either ride the bus or the subway or I thought was real cool.

01:07:32.373 --> 01:07:44.284
I would rollerblade to school Yeah, I think that's so illustrative of The difference like yeah, um, one of the things I've said a lot is like the United States needs to hold the United States a little more loosely.

01:07:44.884 --> 01:07:49.693
You know, there's like these, this kind of movement of, you know, banning the electoral college, for example.

01:07:50.114 --> 01:07:55.579
Well, then New York and California would basically tell, you know, everybody in North Dakota, how to live.

01:07:55.599 --> 01:08:00.458
They have no idea like what it is to have their kids driving their farm tractor at 13 years old.

01:08:00.458 --> 01:08:01.458
Cause that's what you need to do.

01:08:01.969 --> 01:08:02.318
Right.

01:08:02.878 --> 01:08:05.659
It's just a different world and you know, different needs.

01:08:05.659 --> 01:08:09.409
And you know, my world, there's a saying like structure determines function, right?

01:08:09.409 --> 01:08:12.248
Like the structure of your spine is going to determine the function of your body.

01:08:12.688 --> 01:08:14.309
Like it's the same thing.

01:08:14.358 --> 01:08:21.918
Like your environment determines what you need to have the skills to be able to Impulse for a perhaps more collectively.

01:08:22.548 --> 01:08:32.319
Supportive society when you have homeless people in the streets and things like that like it's like no We should take care of this because that's yeah, our kids safety right totally North Dakota.

01:08:32.448 --> 01:08:35.354
Like they're like Here, ride your bike to your friend's house.

01:08:35.434 --> 01:08:37.823
Right, and don't get your arm stuck in this piece of farm equipment.

01:08:37.823 --> 01:08:41.514
Right, don't fall off the bin when you go up and check and see if the grain is dry.

01:08:42.724 --> 01:08:45.344
And like we were learning how to jaywalk in traffic, right?

01:08:45.344 --> 01:08:50.514
When you're jumping from hay bale pile to hay bale pile, you know, make sure if you do fall you try not to land on your head.

01:08:51.434 --> 01:08:51.594
Yeah.

01:08:51.908 --> 01:08:55.269
I mean, maybe similar skill sets just applied in an urban versus a rural setting.

01:08:55.269 --> 01:08:58.288
One is more Frogger, the other one is more Tarzan.

01:09:00.469 --> 01:09:05.849
So you get your driver's license and now you can finally go off and be part of this team in Portland?

01:09:05.849 --> 01:09:06.998
Or were you already in Portland?

01:09:07.009 --> 01:09:10.389
Oh no, I, other people would, Drive me to the construction site.

01:09:10.908 --> 01:09:11.469
But it was cool.

01:09:11.469 --> 01:09:18.498
It was cool to be able to do that I mean just even the little things like I remember the first time I drove myself to the grocery store I was like I could buy my groceries by myself.

01:09:18.769 --> 01:09:19.559
This is crazy.

01:09:19.599 --> 01:09:21.569
Did they teach you like how to swing a hammer?

01:09:21.578 --> 01:09:24.319
How to, you just saw all those things too, right?

01:09:24.319 --> 01:09:25.109
Oh for sure.

01:09:25.128 --> 01:09:30.338
So that was really what we were there to do We were there to basically become assistant site supervisors.

01:09:30.338 --> 01:09:33.378
And so we learned all those skills We were sent roof trusses.

01:09:33.418 --> 01:09:34.498
We were hanging drywall.

01:09:34.498 --> 01:09:36.014
We were, you know, Frame it in Windows.

01:09:36.024 --> 01:09:37.253
Like, we learned it all.

01:09:37.274 --> 01:09:39.064
It was a really cool thing to do.

01:09:39.724 --> 01:09:42.524
And then it also planted the seeds for me to become involved with Habitat here.

01:09:42.533 --> 01:09:42.944
Yeah, yeah.

01:09:43.064 --> 01:09:43.363
Cool.

01:09:43.684 --> 01:09:47.823
Um, and so, so you stayed with AmeriCorps for a while, right?

01:09:47.833 --> 01:09:48.314
A year.

01:09:48.344 --> 01:09:49.373
It's a year of service.

01:09:49.423 --> 01:09:49.823
Okay.

01:09:49.884 --> 01:09:50.104
Yep.

01:09:50.283 --> 01:09:53.444
And then, what was the circumstance that landed you?

01:09:54.444 --> 01:09:59.213
So I, gosh, when I graduated from undergrad, I was, I was dating a guy.

01:09:59.753 --> 01:10:01.644
We tried to do the distance thing.

01:10:02.073 --> 01:10:04.934
We probably shouldn't have stuck with it, but we did.

01:10:04.963 --> 01:10:05.673
So I moved back.

01:10:05.673 --> 01:10:08.453
He, we were living in upstate New York, Saratoga Springs at this time.

01:10:09.083 --> 01:10:09.783
And so I went back.

01:10:09.793 --> 01:10:10.963
We tried to, you know.

01:10:11.823 --> 01:10:13.404
pick up where we left off or whatever.

01:10:13.404 --> 01:10:23.194
And, you know, it was definitely a bad idea for the beginning, but actually for a couple of years, we just toughed it out and, um, it was pretty, I mean, that was an interesting phase of my life.

01:10:23.194 --> 01:10:24.594
Like I landed there, it was winter time.

01:10:25.623 --> 01:10:30.173
We're getting into the winter time, so I got a job at a little coffee shop, and That's Uncommon Grounds.

01:10:30.184 --> 01:10:30.962
I've worked at Uncommon Grounds.

01:10:30.962 --> 01:10:31.684
Have we talked about that before?

01:10:31.684 --> 01:10:32.123
I don't know.

01:10:32.434 --> 01:10:39.573
I have a, uh, one of my, when I started dating my wife, I lived with two gals I worked with at the bank, and one of them had worked at Uncommon Grounds.

01:10:39.703 --> 01:10:40.043
Wow.

01:10:40.043 --> 01:10:40.613
I've been there.

01:10:40.623 --> 01:10:41.493
Small world.

01:10:41.493 --> 01:10:42.923
When we were in upstate New York at one time.

01:10:42.923 --> 01:10:44.884
I've put cream cheese on so many bagels in that place.

01:10:45.113 --> 01:10:46.974
Yeah, she was always a big fan of that, uh, coffee shop.

01:10:46.984 --> 01:10:48.253
Yeah, it was a good coffee shop.

01:10:48.253 --> 01:10:48.463
Yeah, yeah.

01:10:48.804 --> 01:10:58.154
And so that's, I mean, I learned to love good coffee when I worked there and then I would also work the one coffee shop in New York that I've been to in Saratoga Springs.

01:10:58.474 --> 01:10:58.743
Yeah.

01:10:58.743 --> 01:11:00.833
That was a really weird, all of New York state.

01:11:00.833 --> 01:11:02.163
I've never been to another coffee shop.

01:11:02.163 --> 01:11:03.463
And it's the one that I worked in.

01:11:04.073 --> 01:11:05.264
Um, that was a weird town.

01:11:05.274 --> 01:11:08.654
There was a huge disparity between like the haves and the have nots of that town.

01:11:08.743 --> 01:11:11.384
Like a veil kind of situation where there's all these rich people.

01:11:11.673 --> 01:11:11.844
Yeah.

01:11:11.854 --> 01:11:16.423
Like Skidmore college and lots of very wealthy college students and horses.

01:11:17.019 --> 01:11:18.918
Racing and then the people that make them coffee.

01:11:18.929 --> 01:11:23.998
Yeah, and the people that like grew their vegetables, which was mean So I worked on a small organic farm.

01:11:24.109 --> 01:11:28.639
Okay in those years two in the summer even more skills You're pretty well rounded for a city girl.

01:11:28.838 --> 01:11:30.998
Totally super drive a bus.

01:11:31.029 --> 01:11:46.738
You couldn't hammer nails I could grow Yeah, and so it actually was through the farm and You know, setting up at our farmer's market that I met somebody who would spend his summer's farming in upstate New York, and he would spend his winters working for the Ascaria and Crested Butte.

01:11:47.189 --> 01:11:50.969
And so when my relationship finally came to an end, you know, Was this a love interest?

01:11:51.059 --> 01:11:51.548
No, no, no.

01:11:51.548 --> 01:11:52.099
Just a friend.

01:11:52.498 --> 01:11:52.759
Yep.

01:11:52.769 --> 01:11:54.219
Happened to be that lifestyle.

01:11:54.238 --> 01:11:57.738
And you're like, well, he said, Hey, I can get you a job at the Ascaria and Crested Butte.

01:11:57.759 --> 01:11:58.368
No problem.

01:11:58.368 --> 01:11:59.889
He said, just come out to Colorado for the winter.

01:11:59.889 --> 01:12:00.979
I was like, awesome, Doug.

01:12:00.979 --> 01:12:01.798
That sounds great.

01:12:02.288 --> 01:12:03.529
And so I was pretty slow in the winter.

01:12:03.529 --> 01:12:04.509
Anyway, I'm sick of coffee.

01:12:04.979 --> 01:12:07.139
I needed to get out of that town.

01:12:07.179 --> 01:12:11.509
I was at that point, I had moved out and I was literally in my friend's walk in closet.

01:12:11.509 --> 01:12:17.529
It had a window though, so that was good, but I had like a blow up, like twin mattress in a walk in closet.

01:12:17.538 --> 01:12:19.328
I was like, I need a venue change.

01:12:20.168 --> 01:12:22.149
And so when Doug mentioned that, I was like, Oh, yeah.

01:12:22.269 --> 01:12:22.708
Awesome.

01:12:22.788 --> 01:12:24.229
I would love to spend the winter in Colorado.

01:12:24.229 --> 01:12:28.759
And you know, I had a job waiting for me when I got there and I would use to drive this.

01:12:28.779 --> 01:12:29.439
It was awesome.

01:12:29.439 --> 01:12:31.448
I had a 1995 Volkswagen Golf.

01:12:31.448 --> 01:12:32.569
That car was awesome.

01:12:32.899 --> 01:12:34.588
Like little stick ship, zippy little car.

01:12:35.319 --> 01:12:36.828
Yeah, I'd love that car.

01:12:37.618 --> 01:12:42.889
And so the plan was we were going to just pack my car up and we were going to road trip it out together and.

01:12:43.404 --> 01:12:46.984
We'd land in Crested Butte and about a week before we were supposed to leave he calls me.

01:12:46.984 --> 01:12:50.054
He's like Jane Um, I'm not going to Colorado this this winter.

01:12:50.224 --> 01:12:59.923
I was like what I Was like we're supposed to leave in a week What the hell and he's like I he I guess say I'm probably still the case but getting a he really wanted a job on Ski Patrol.

01:13:00.184 --> 01:13:06.463
Okay, and those positions are probably super competitive in Crested Butte and He was offered a position at a resort in Vermont.

01:13:06.474 --> 01:13:08.014
So he's like I'm staying on the East Coast this winter.

01:13:08.014 --> 01:13:10.583
Oh dang He's like, well, don't in the door for ski patrol.

01:13:10.894 --> 01:13:11.863
Well, he's like, don't worry.

01:13:11.863 --> 01:13:13.634
You still have a job waiting for you.

01:13:13.684 --> 01:13:15.194
Like you're going to love it.

01:13:15.654 --> 01:13:16.283
Godspeed.

01:13:16.363 --> 01:13:17.774
And I was like, okay.

01:13:18.213 --> 01:13:21.844
So I packed all my shit into my Volkswagen Golf and I drove cross country by myself.

01:13:21.844 --> 01:13:25.323
I stopped in Albuquerque to see some friends who actually also worked at Uncommon Grounds, who had moved.

01:13:25.923 --> 01:13:32.783
And I dish dove in the restaurant that they work out to just make a little bit extra money to make it all the way to Crested Butte.

01:13:32.783 --> 01:13:33.524
I landed there.

01:13:34.144 --> 01:13:34.863
And.

01:13:36.434 --> 01:13:42.253
I think I got there and then the very next day I started work, they put me on the lift up to like, you know, this is like sea level and Were you ski?

01:13:42.644 --> 01:13:48.283
I snowboarded a little bit, you know, took in Vermont or upstate snowboarding New York for PE in upstate New York.

01:13:48.314 --> 01:13:48.434
Okay.

01:13:48.854 --> 01:13:53.413
I wasn't terribly good at it, but I was like, you know, 23 years old.

01:13:53.413 --> 01:13:54.944
But you'd ridden at a lift before at least.

01:13:55.064 --> 01:13:55.154
Oh yeah.

01:13:55.154 --> 01:13:55.423
A little bit.

01:13:55.423 --> 01:13:56.158
Stuff that stuff stuff.

01:13:56.578 --> 01:13:57.798
And, but not at elevation.

01:13:58.559 --> 01:13:59.038
Oh my gosh.

01:13:59.038 --> 01:14:00.658
They put me on a lift first thing with a shovel.

01:14:00.658 --> 01:14:02.958
They're like, we're building the ramp to get off the lift.

01:14:02.958 --> 01:14:06.029
And I thought I was going to die like 11, 000 feet.

01:14:06.029 --> 01:14:07.349
I was like, what am I doing here?

01:14:07.969 --> 01:14:10.599
But I stayed at a hostel the first couple of nights I was in town.

01:14:10.609 --> 01:14:12.378
And then I met just a bunch of really cool people.

01:14:12.389 --> 01:14:18.131
We got a condo together up on the mountain and, you know, we lived pretty classic ski bum life for several years.

01:14:18.131 --> 01:14:18.969
It was awesome.

01:14:19.698 --> 01:14:23.158
And, you know, I ended up working at Camp 4 Coffee in Crested Butte for many years too.

01:14:23.158 --> 01:14:25.519
It was a really good experience.

01:14:25.708 --> 01:14:27.498
Simple life, when I look back on it.

01:14:27.698 --> 01:14:33.189
And how did the 9 1 1 dispatch, you were like, Well, I guess I should get a big girl job or something?

01:14:33.189 --> 01:14:34.319
Well, I mean, that was part of it.

01:14:34.319 --> 01:14:36.979
Like, year round jobs in the Gunnison Valley.

01:14:36.998 --> 01:14:39.809
And again, I'm speaking like the Gunnison Valley of 15, 20 years ago.

01:14:39.809 --> 01:14:40.708
It was very different.

01:14:41.219 --> 01:14:45.644
Um, They were hard to come by, like your own jobs with benefits.

01:14:45.663 --> 01:14:48.293
Like there was used to be a huge off season, like month season.

01:14:48.293 --> 01:14:56.844
We'd have month season in the spring, and then we'd have month season again when the, you know, the fall and you were, a lot of people were out of work for a few months out of the year.

01:14:56.844 --> 01:14:58.274
Yeah, I think that's really interesting, even for the, the, the.

01:14:58.594 --> 01:15:00.003
The local restaurants and stores.

01:15:00.014 --> 01:15:05.963
They would close and that's when those restaurant owners would take a breather, take their vacation and tourism was down.

01:15:05.963 --> 01:15:08.524
So there wasn't a whole lot of people under the locals to feed.

01:15:08.984 --> 01:15:10.413
And so town would shut down.

01:15:10.413 --> 01:15:12.774
And I mean, those were magical times.

01:15:13.283 --> 01:15:20.814
It would probably like, if you looked at like monthly receipts and wages paid and stuff, it's probably got some really crazy seasonality.

01:15:20.814 --> 01:15:21.604
Most definitely.

01:15:21.623 --> 01:15:23.043
Now I don't think anything shuts down.

01:15:23.064 --> 01:15:24.743
There's no off season anymore.

01:15:24.774 --> 01:15:25.003
Yeah.

01:15:25.003 --> 01:15:25.073
Yeah.

01:15:25.363 --> 01:15:31.283
But yeah, at that time, you had to really plan for that because you probably had no income or very much reduced income.

01:15:31.293 --> 01:15:34.323
Right, you got two shifts a week instead of six at the restaurant, whatever.

01:15:34.333 --> 01:15:34.394
Totally.

01:15:34.404 --> 01:15:34.984
Exactly.

01:15:34.984 --> 01:15:36.533
And so, I don't know.

01:15:36.793 --> 01:15:44.208
I mean, it wasn't that I necessarily needed a change, but it was just a, it was just a, there was a curiosity to that type of work.

01:15:44.979 --> 01:15:56.238
And I know I've always thought no matter what we do, we're in service to people, whether I'm serving somebody a coffee, or I am answering a phone when somebody's having an emergency or exactly like whatever we do, we are serving somebody.

01:15:56.238 --> 01:15:56.569
Right.

01:15:57.048 --> 01:16:00.559
And I was like, well, this is a different, really unique way to serve the community.

01:16:00.559 --> 01:16:06.708
And honestly, growing up in New York city, I did not at that time have very positive views of law enforcement.

01:16:06.708 --> 01:16:15.219
And so I, you know, I, you know, Challenged my own way of thinking and actually made some really great friendships with people and learned a lot You know, you learn about a lot.

01:16:15.378 --> 01:16:16.809
You learn a lot about humanity.

01:16:16.809 --> 01:16:17.868
You learn a lot about yourself.

01:16:18.149 --> 01:16:22.338
You have to handle other people's shit So it was a weird job.

01:16:22.399 --> 01:16:26.729
Do you like if you could open a chiropractic office in Crested Butte?

01:16:27.198 --> 01:16:36.094
Today and still have the same Lifestyle, discretionary income, would you want to, or do you, are you back in love with Northern Colorado now that you're here?

01:16:36.104 --> 01:16:38.064
Oh man, that's a hard question.

01:16:38.184 --> 01:16:39.793
I mean, I, I miss the mountains.

01:16:40.043 --> 01:16:49.884
I miss living in a mountain town, but I don't think I could thrive and do what I do, like the specific type of chiropractor that I do in a town that's small, in a community that's small.

01:16:49.884 --> 01:16:53.863
And it's also like, it's still a very much tourist driven economy there.

01:16:54.423 --> 01:16:56.474
And I'm sure the chiropractors.

01:16:56.998 --> 01:16:57.918
Maybe there's more than one.

01:16:57.918 --> 01:16:58.429
I'm not sure.

01:16:58.429 --> 01:17:08.819
I've been back in a while But I'm sure they get a lot of walk in traffic from skiers who just need a one off adjustment And there's for sure a place for that in town, but that's just that that's not what lights me up that you do Yeah, fair enough.

01:17:08.918 --> 01:17:12.088
Okay But yeah, I would happily live there again.

01:17:12.158 --> 01:17:19.274
Would you let's talk about like Like a possible next chapter like do you want to do this for two years?

01:17:19.554 --> 01:17:26.484
20 more years and then retire now that you've got kind of your business kind of rocking or do you have curiosities?

01:17:26.493 --> 01:17:33.694
Would you I can't I honestly this is weird to say I can't see myself doing anything different at this point There's nothing six already.

01:17:33.694 --> 01:17:42.328
So actually 15 more years you can retire but I love what I do and I feel like I have the skill to be able to do it.

01:17:42.328 --> 01:17:45.128
And I have the ability to communicate its importance to people.

01:17:45.708 --> 01:17:51.418
And it feels really good to offer to offer a solution for people that they're not finding any place else.

01:17:51.809 --> 01:17:57.668
And so I think I don't ever see myself retiring necessarily in a traditional sense.

01:17:57.668 --> 01:18:06.319
It's like, you know, maybe one day I would hope to bring on an intern who would become an associate who could then, you know, Basically purchase my practice and take it over and keep that legacy going.

01:18:06.319 --> 01:18:08.458
Maybe they'll even let you work two days a week there.

01:18:08.469 --> 01:18:08.798
Exactly.

01:18:08.828 --> 01:18:14.208
And just come in and, and just do the part that I love, which is actual caring for people part.

01:18:14.208 --> 01:18:21.408
I don't have to worry about like, writing the checks or, you know, dusting the light fixtures or anything like that.

01:18:21.548 --> 01:18:21.969
Yeah, yeah.

01:18:21.969 --> 01:18:22.279
I dig it.

01:18:22.328 --> 01:18:22.649
Yeah.

01:18:22.809 --> 01:18:26.899
Um, what would you say to a young, uh, medical professional?

01:18:27.389 --> 01:18:37.899
person are the most, whether it be nutrition or chiropractic or whatever, acupuncture, some healthcare realm, like what are the most important?

01:18:37.908 --> 01:18:42.109
Cause a lot of them are serve people first and they don't really think about the business elements.

01:18:42.679 --> 01:18:52.048
What, I guess, what would be your advice to somebody in that mindset of, uh, you know, making a sustainable machine out of the, if you will.

01:18:52.439 --> 01:18:56.988
I think there's probably a huge benefit in, associating with somebody first.

01:18:56.998 --> 01:18:58.439
You know, I didn't do that right out of school.

01:18:58.439 --> 01:19:01.248
Like I think there was, I had a unique set of circumstances.

01:19:01.248 --> 01:19:05.698
I was a bit older and I knew specifically the type of practice I wanted to have.

01:19:05.698 --> 01:19:07.029
And we knew we were moving to Fort Collins.

01:19:07.029 --> 01:19:09.048
There was nobody else here doing what I needed to do.

01:19:09.658 --> 01:19:13.259
So it was on me to basically purchase all the equipment and do all that anyways.

01:19:13.288 --> 01:19:16.859
So I'm like, well, if I'm doing this, I'm, I'm just going for it.

01:19:17.349 --> 01:19:22.918
But I think there could have been a lot for me to learn being in.

01:19:23.618 --> 01:19:25.658
Practice with somebody else being under somebody else's roof.

01:19:25.658 --> 01:19:30.849
If you were 23, work for somebody for three or five years.

01:19:30.868 --> 01:19:51.368
I think there's immense value in that, or at least having mentors that you hold close that can guide you through startup, because I'm going to say, like, I, you probably, in most schools that train you to be a massage therapist, nutritionist, acupuncturist, chiropractor, you might have a business class or two, but you do not get a business education.

01:19:51.368 --> 01:19:52.779
It's not what school's designed for.

01:19:53.019 --> 01:19:54.929
And that's a whole other conversation.

01:19:54.929 --> 01:19:57.059
But you don't graduate with those skills.

01:19:57.099 --> 01:20:02.238
And you don't even graduate with the skills you need to, like, understand how to go to a networking function and connect with people.

01:20:02.238 --> 01:20:04.828
And if that doesn't come naturally to you, it's, it's a really awkward process.

01:20:05.038 --> 01:20:05.729
awkward thing.

01:20:05.729 --> 01:20:05.958
Right.

01:20:06.538 --> 01:20:20.009
And so for somebody young, that's looking to do that, like either gain experience and, you know, make those mistakes when you have somebody by your side who could help you through them, or at least have those mentors close that can guide you through it.

01:20:20.019 --> 01:20:26.594
Like, I mean, I think that's what Loco Think Tank is for me now and has been for five years is those peers that can, you through it.

01:20:27.434 --> 01:20:32.524
Provide input and It's been neat to see so many of you grow so nicely over the last seven years.

01:20:32.533 --> 01:20:33.144
it's my crew.

01:20:33.404 --> 01:20:33.854
Yeah, yeah.

01:20:34.344 --> 01:20:40.993
Uh, one of the things that you didn't say, but I was thinking at the time is for a young person to really go to a practice that you admire.

01:20:40.993 --> 01:20:41.378
Yeah.

01:20:41.649 --> 01:20:45.208
You know, there's, there's always going to be practices out there and doctors out there.

01:20:45.208 --> 01:20:49.759
You kind of got to dig a little bit, figure out for sure who you want to be a part of their team.

01:20:49.759 --> 01:20:50.588
And it's been cool.

01:20:50.588 --> 01:20:55.168
I've had through the many years, students reach out to me and ask if they can come shadow like chiropractic students.

01:20:55.168 --> 01:20:57.918
And it's always an honor when somebody reaches out to ask that.

01:20:58.408 --> 01:21:05.493
And You know, I guess to some extent, like, that there's got to be this almost, like, Wizard of Oz thing, too.

01:21:05.493 --> 01:21:07.963
It's like, you know, there's no secrets behind my curtain.

01:21:07.993 --> 01:21:11.423
There's no magic or, you know, mystery to it.

01:21:11.434 --> 01:21:13.463
It's just grinding it out every day.

01:21:14.024 --> 01:21:18.623
And, not grind it in a negative way, but it's, you know, it's not all glamorous work.

01:21:18.623 --> 01:21:20.024
It's not all happy results.

01:21:20.033 --> 01:21:21.283
You're meeting 40 people in a day.

01:21:21.323 --> 01:21:22.463
That's a lot of interactions.

01:21:22.514 --> 01:22:00.134
And it's also a lot of people who maybe aren't Because they're not feeling their best or in a grouchy mood because they're in pain and you know, It's not always like rainbows and butterflies and a lot of times it is and the days go by but then there's heaviness to it and also, you know, we've talked about this a little bit about being in business is the opportunity you hold a mirror up and it's a lot of reflection of like who you are and At the end of the day, it's you know You know, nine good things can happen, but one bad thing happens, and how do I come home enough to just focus on that one negative thing?

01:22:00.274 --> 01:22:01.783
How do I celebrate the wins, too?

01:22:01.844 --> 01:22:06.344
Well, I suspect that it, for your crew at your local Think Tank chapter, that's part of it.

01:22:06.363 --> 01:22:10.213
Like, they help you look back at the accomplishments instead of just that one little piece.

01:22:12.168 --> 01:22:13.288
Yeah, and we all need that.

01:22:13.319 --> 01:22:16.198
Otherwise, like, I mean, I think that's a recipe for burnout.

01:22:16.198 --> 01:22:18.908
If we don't have that, you know, bird's eye view or that perspective.

01:22:18.918 --> 01:22:24.559
You mentioned the, the attempt to hire an associate doctor there and it was an expensive lesson or whatever.

01:22:24.588 --> 01:22:24.899
Yeah.

01:22:25.654 --> 01:22:26.314
20 grand.

01:22:27.503 --> 01:22:31.703
You know, I maybe not quite that much intentionally didn't do the math because I, I just didn't wanna know.

01:22:31.703 --> 01:22:31.793
Right.

01:22:31.793 --> 01:22:33.474
But I'll just say lawyers aren't cheap.

01:22:33.594 --> 01:22:33.953
Right.

01:22:34.043 --> 01:22:41.474
Um, well, and, and I, and I suspect that the, having people that help you get to a mindset of, you know, we're just gonna move past it.

01:22:42.014 --> 01:22:42.314
Yes.

01:22:42.344 --> 01:22:43.514
Don't even really need to know the math.

01:22:43.514 --> 01:22:44.413
I know.

01:22:44.413 --> 01:22:53.384
And I mean, even now, about a year and a half later, I don't know that I'll be at a place of gratitude for the experience.

01:22:53.384 --> 01:22:53.474
Right.

01:22:53.503 --> 01:22:57.673
I think that's gonna require a little bit more self-reflection, but I.

01:22:58.594 --> 01:23:10.590
I am grateful for, I mean, even the people that I met along the way and the opportunity to like, understand the system, so to speak, and what happens when an employee decides to file a frivolous complaint.

01:23:10.590 --> 01:23:12.828
Like, what does that look like?

01:23:12.828 --> 01:23:15.440
And that is such a thing anymore.

01:23:15.440 --> 01:23:15.814
Yeah.

01:23:16.123 --> 01:23:31.344
Like I never heard about it when I was in banking of employees that were just kind of like, you know If they got terminated and they weren't happy about it, they just like try to make it somebody else's problem Yeah, and that happened and on my good days.

01:23:31.344 --> 01:23:36.599
I just realized that only somebody who's in a pretty dark place makes decisions like that.

01:23:37.418 --> 01:23:44.479
And you know, in those moments I can have compassion for the situation, but on my less good moments, I'm like, who does that?

01:23:45.069 --> 01:23:46.059
Who does that?

01:23:46.559 --> 01:23:48.389
But it's a suffering person who does that.

01:23:48.469 --> 01:23:48.759
Yeah.

01:23:48.809 --> 01:23:50.059
Well, hurt people, hurt people.

01:23:50.059 --> 01:24:03.319
And it, you know, honestly, the, the system is set up so that somebody who just is disgruntled or had a bad experience or just has a bone to pick, they could literally just fill out a form online and just click submit and it goes to the state.

01:24:03.689 --> 01:24:07.149
And then the onus is on the business owner to fight that.

01:24:07.849 --> 01:24:11.479
And, you know, I interviewed a couple lawyers when this all happened.

01:24:11.488 --> 01:24:16.939
The first one was like, well, you know, you'll probably spend less time, less energy, less money, not fighting this, just settle.

01:24:18.274 --> 01:24:30.533
And I was like, Oh, it just felt dirty to me because what this person was doing was calling my character into question with the statement that they provided.

01:24:30.533 --> 01:24:35.493
And I was like, I know in my heart and in all the documentation that I have that none of this is true.

01:24:35.564 --> 01:24:35.844
Right.

01:24:36.274 --> 01:24:36.753
And.

01:24:37.118 --> 01:24:49.059
You know, I interviewed another lawyer who is the one I ended up working with and he's like, and I'll tell you right out of the gate, this is a very employee friendly system, but you know, looking at all the documentation you have, like, there's no question.

01:24:49.269 --> 01:24:55.618
And so he said, if you want to go through this process, I can't guarantee you an outcome, but it will probably be favorable for you.

01:24:55.618 --> 01:24:57.814
Um, And it's going to probably take months.

01:24:57.814 --> 01:25:04.684
And it did from start to finish the whole process going through like interviews with investigators from the state took about seven months.

01:25:04.724 --> 01:25:14.623
And at the end of the day, they, on everything that I was, you know, accused of doing basically none of it held any water.

01:25:15.384 --> 01:25:18.323
And you know, it, you know, It felt really good.

01:25:18.323 --> 01:25:20.113
Like actually was in our cohorts meeting.

01:25:20.113 --> 01:25:24.524
I was with, uh, we were just getting to Avery and I was with Moses.

01:25:24.524 --> 01:25:27.413
We were waiting in line and I, my cell phone rings and it was my lawyer.

01:25:27.413 --> 01:25:31.363
I was like, Oh my gosh, this has to be the decision because we've been waiting, waiting, waiting.

01:25:31.984 --> 01:25:35.474
And in that moment, I just wanted to run outside and like incredible Hulk my shirt off.

01:25:35.474 --> 01:25:40.198
Yes, I won! Because it was just months of I am vindicated.

01:25:40.349 --> 01:25:45.408
That anguish, that mental anguish, but then after that I'm like, man, this doesn't much feel like winning.

01:25:45.538 --> 01:25:45.849
Right.

01:25:45.899 --> 01:25:47.298
Like, it just feels like a waste.

01:25:47.349 --> 01:25:51.338
You had 40 hours at least spent screwing around with this whole deal.

01:25:51.349 --> 01:25:54.668
And all the money and the time aside, it was like the heartache that I put myself through.

01:25:55.078 --> 01:25:55.179
Yeah.

01:25:55.248 --> 01:25:55.979
That sucked.

01:25:57.088 --> 01:25:59.868
Well, may you never have that kind of experience.

01:26:00.219 --> 01:26:04.118
I've talked to a lot of friends and colleagues are like, man, you sure got the worst experience out of the way first.

01:26:04.118 --> 01:26:08.399
I was like, usually people get a little bit richer first before people target them for that kind of stuff.

01:26:08.439 --> 01:26:09.139
It's okay.

01:26:09.179 --> 01:26:11.448
You know, they have a little bit more like when somebody has got.

01:26:11.559 --> 01:26:15.359
20 or 30 employees or something, they're like, Oh, he can afford it.

01:26:15.359 --> 01:26:20.439
I can just get the, you know, whatever unemployment they don't really deserve or this or that.

01:26:20.698 --> 01:26:34.639
And I just think the whole situation too, is a really interesting reflection of folks who went through, I would say school, particularly school that requires a lot of hands on interaction with people who went through school during the pandemic and they didn't have to show up for class.

01:26:34.698 --> 01:26:35.149
Right.

01:26:35.179 --> 01:26:36.788
They just did class online.

01:26:36.788 --> 01:26:44.878
Or they, you know, Did it when they felt like it and submitted the work, but when you're in a profession like mine, you can't just decide to show up when you feel like it.

01:26:45.179 --> 01:26:57.099
You show up whether you're, you know, feeling a hundred percent, you show up whether there's a foot of snow on the ground, you show up for people because that's what your job is.

01:26:57.333 --> 01:27:00.894
And our patients deserve us at a hundred percent.

01:27:00.963 --> 01:27:04.434
And in my mind, like when I walk through the door, like I wear scrubs in the office.

01:27:04.434 --> 01:27:05.344
Like it just makes it easy.

01:27:05.344 --> 01:27:06.783
I don't have to think about what I'm wearing in the morning.

01:27:06.783 --> 01:27:09.974
If they're embroidered with my name and my logo, and it's comfortable.

01:27:09.974 --> 01:27:11.573
It's like wearing jammies to work every day.

01:27:11.573 --> 01:27:12.184
It's really comfortable.

01:27:12.304 --> 01:27:16.734
When I put that, when I put those pants and that top on, it's go time.

01:27:16.844 --> 01:27:18.054
And it puts me in the mindset.

01:27:18.054 --> 01:27:19.104
Like I am in a work mindset.

01:27:19.104 --> 01:27:20.953
Even if you had a fight with Wes on your way to work.

01:27:21.578 --> 01:27:22.158
Yeah, whatever.

01:27:22.189 --> 01:27:23.429
I'm, I'm Dr.

01:27:23.439 --> 01:27:23.958
Jane now.

01:27:24.038 --> 01:27:24.439
Correct.

01:27:24.969 --> 01:27:29.309
In fact, like, you know, best jokes are always like, Oh, you got your doctor costume on, but it's true.

01:27:29.309 --> 01:27:30.279
Like there's something about it.

01:27:30.279 --> 01:27:33.979
And then when I take it off and I'm home, I try to leave that at work.

01:27:34.458 --> 01:27:36.889
And it's just interesting.

01:27:36.899 --> 01:27:47.929
Like, I, I hope that there's a younger generation of chiropractors and other healthcare professionals coming out of school that do have that drive and do have that passion to show up for people, because that's not what I was showing.

01:27:47.929 --> 01:27:48.158
People need it.

01:27:48.389 --> 01:27:53.908
Um, I feel like we've covered a lot of the, the journey.

01:27:54.559 --> 01:28:00.918
Um, we always talk about faith, family, and politics as our mandatory segments.

01:28:01.219 --> 01:28:01.798
Yikes.

01:28:01.849 --> 01:28:02.538
Um, yeah.

01:28:03.269 --> 01:28:04.698
Where would you like to start there?

01:28:04.859 --> 01:28:05.969
We can go in order, I guess.

01:28:06.019 --> 01:28:11.769
Um, so yeah, are you, my friend says, are you Jewish or Jewish?

01:28:13.434 --> 01:28:14.844
Uh, are you kosher?

01:28:14.844 --> 01:28:17.689
Do you do synagogue stuff at all?

01:28:18.118 --> 01:28:21.774
I mean Growing up, I think, you know, we observed the big holidays.

01:28:21.783 --> 01:28:24.673
Like, my mom's parents were more conservative.

01:28:24.694 --> 01:28:27.094
Like, I think they kept a kosher house.

01:28:27.094 --> 01:28:28.503
Like, they had different sets of dishes.

01:28:28.503 --> 01:28:31.373
And, um, me and my grandma made good chicken soup.

01:28:31.923 --> 01:28:32.453
Um.

01:28:32.503 --> 01:28:33.819
You had matzo balls and different things.

01:28:33.819 --> 01:28:33.990
Yeah.

01:28:33.990 --> 01:28:35.649
And like, we celebrated all the holidays together.

01:28:35.649 --> 01:28:35.708
Yeah.

01:28:36.368 --> 01:28:37.689
With our families.

01:28:37.689 --> 01:28:39.899
And which, when is Hanukkah after?

01:28:39.899 --> 01:28:41.158
We just had actually this, just after Christmas.

01:28:41.189 --> 01:28:43.679
Well, it's different because the Jewish calendar is different.

01:28:43.679 --> 01:28:43.708
Okay.

01:28:43.708 --> 01:28:46.139
But this year, the first day of Hanukkah actually fell on Christmas Day.

01:28:46.198 --> 01:28:46.708
Oh, is that right?

01:28:46.798 --> 01:28:46.859
Okay.

01:28:46.859 --> 01:28:49.168
And so this year Hanukkah came really late.

01:28:49.319 --> 01:28:49.408
Yeah.

01:28:49.708 --> 01:28:51.509
So that's usually it's little bit earlier.

01:28:51.509 --> 01:28:53.399
It's the 12th or 15th or, yeah.

01:28:53.399 --> 01:28:55.469
And so we celebrated Hanukkah growing up.

01:28:55.498 --> 01:28:55.559
Okay.

01:28:55.779 --> 01:28:57.849
And you know, we lit the menorah and said our prayers.

01:28:57.849 --> 01:29:01.029
Like my, my brother and I did go to Hebrew school for many years.

01:29:01.029 --> 01:29:03.248
I, you know, I joke around, I'm like, I was a Hebrew school dropout.

01:29:04.279 --> 01:29:05.828
Do you, do you have any Hebrew skills?

01:29:05.828 --> 01:29:08.128
Like can you say some words and stuff?

01:29:08.128 --> 01:29:08.849
Not really.

01:29:09.238 --> 01:29:22.458
I mean, I could sort of like pronounce text if I was looking at it, but I don't know what the words mean, but you know, all the different songs and the prayers that we used to say in like religious school, like, you know, if I ever do go to a temple for high holidays, like.

01:29:22.588 --> 01:29:25.668
A lot of it, like, just sounds really familiar because it's what I remember from my childhood.

01:29:25.668 --> 01:29:30.908
But we did go on a really incredible trip to Israel as a family when I was in high school.

01:29:31.548 --> 01:29:33.259
And so that was amazing.

01:29:33.729 --> 01:29:40.649
I was listening just this morning, actually, there's a Canadian Christian apologist on Joe Rogan.

01:29:40.889 --> 01:29:47.988
I think Rogan's slowly turning into a Christian, but like over the last five years, he's gotten more and more less dismissive, we'll say.

01:29:48.469 --> 01:29:50.569
But anyway, this, this Canadian guy, apparently.

01:29:51.019 --> 01:30:10.993
tore up this dude in some kind of a podcast debate and it went viral and this dude was like Sending cease and desist because he sounded like such a dumbass when debating this fellow Anyway, he was talking about how like at the time that the jewish faith the monotheism kind of Entered the world conversation, if you will.

01:30:11.764 --> 01:30:20.764
Like there was the Greeks and the Romans and there was like, yeah, your Zeus is kind of like my Poseidon and Athena is this and this, these gods live here and there.

01:30:21.264 --> 01:30:27.073
And then the Jews come, come along and they're like, well, no, actually there's one God and he created the whole works.

01:30:27.073 --> 01:30:29.073
And if you're gods or anything, they're demons.

01:30:30.533 --> 01:30:35.033
And just kind of the, uh, I guess in a lot of ways, the, the.

01:30:35.548 --> 01:30:41.918
the leadership of the Jews in terms of that whole, the monotheism element, I guess.

01:30:41.918 --> 01:30:45.168
And so how do you, are you a religious Jew?

01:30:45.168 --> 01:30:46.748
Do you believe in a creator being?

01:30:46.769 --> 01:30:47.319
I do.

01:30:47.399 --> 01:30:56.569
And I don't know that it's, you know, the Jewish version of that, but I, you know, I do think that there's something greater out there and I don't.

01:30:57.003 --> 01:30:58.774
Necessarily have a particular label for it.

01:30:58.894 --> 01:30:59.224
Fair?

01:30:59.253 --> 01:30:59.314
Yeah.

01:30:59.314 --> 01:30:59.613
Okay.

01:30:59.823 --> 01:31:07.113
Well, I mean, do you, do you think of it as Yahweh or whatever in your mind's eye as not a, it's not that God that's described in some of your parents?

01:31:07.113 --> 01:31:07.173
No.

01:31:07.173 --> 01:31:08.344
Not necessarily sex or whatever.

01:31:08.404 --> 01:31:08.703
Yeah.

01:31:08.884 --> 01:31:09.123
Okay.

01:31:09.184 --> 01:31:10.953
I'm just, yeah, it's good, curious.

01:31:11.073 --> 01:31:13.804
Uh, like I am, I am the worst.

01:31:13.894 --> 01:31:17.613
Like, I don't, it's like, you know, you probably heard a lot growing up.

01:31:17.613 --> 01:31:19.503
Jewish in New York is like a very cultural thing.

01:31:19.564 --> 01:31:19.953
Right?

01:31:19.953 --> 01:31:20.913
I would imagine.

01:31:20.974 --> 01:31:24.798
I mean, and a lot of it has to do with like eating good food and just being with family and, yeah.

01:31:24.844 --> 01:31:24.993
Yeah.

01:31:25.144 --> 01:31:25.684
Um.

01:31:26.208 --> 01:31:44.408
Yeah, so there's a big cultural and religious, there's two different things kind of, there's cultural Jews and religious Jews in some respects, and probably just like Christianity and especially Christianity like in Europe, you know, my grandparents were more religious and now we're not as much.

01:31:44.578 --> 01:31:45.668
We're different, right?

01:31:45.689 --> 01:31:47.279
We observe our faith differently.

01:31:47.279 --> 01:31:47.759
Yeah, fair.

01:31:48.149 --> 01:31:51.128
Um, anything else on the faith topic that you would want to share?

01:31:51.168 --> 01:31:53.788
Really, I think it's, it's just good to be.

01:31:54.158 --> 01:31:58.338
You seem like you'd be like a coexist bumper sticker person, at least in spirit, if not in practice.

01:31:58.338 --> 01:31:59.988
I would never put that, yeah, correct.

01:32:00.588 --> 01:32:08.368
But I agree, and I honestly think that, you know, across most faiths and religions, we have a lot more in common than we have that's different, right?

01:32:08.798 --> 01:32:11.448
And at the bottom of it all, like, it's the golden rule, right?

01:32:11.448 --> 01:32:12.139
Do unto others.

01:32:12.849 --> 01:32:19.819
Yeah, I kind of describe it as the same force described by different kind of writers or whatever, even the, even the manifesting.

01:32:20.378 --> 01:32:24.488
Element like some people call that prayer You know, like it's kind of the same.

01:32:24.779 --> 01:32:31.814
Can my intentional communication with the universe or with God or with whatever.

01:32:32.274 --> 01:32:34.923
Can that sometimes make a difference in what happens?

01:32:34.953 --> 01:32:35.314
Yeah.

01:32:35.413 --> 01:32:46.774
And I think we all should, um, look to people with other opinions and faiths and differences, uh, with curiosity and respect and, um, freaking love each other.

01:32:47.373 --> 01:32:50.264
That's a co exist buffer sticker except for, you know, you don't have to have it.

01:32:50.533 --> 01:32:52.184
It offends the graphic designer in me.

01:32:53.463 --> 01:32:54.083
That's fair.

01:32:54.514 --> 01:32:56.123
Um, family.

01:32:56.163 --> 01:33:02.094
Let's, uh, we talked a little bit about family, but let's talk, maybe before we talk about your husband, let's talk about your, your family.

01:33:02.094 --> 01:33:04.234
Your mom, your dad, your brother, just a little bit more.

01:33:04.234 --> 01:33:08.413
Maybe your grandparents, if there's really impactful things or the smartest uncle ever.

01:33:09.064 --> 01:33:09.734
Oh man.

01:33:09.923 --> 01:33:11.613
I think, have you ever watched Seinfeld?

01:33:12.253 --> 01:33:12.783
Yeah, sure.

01:33:12.804 --> 01:33:17.663
So like, that was definitely my dad's grandparents, that whole dynamic.

01:33:17.913 --> 01:33:18.774
Like which one?

01:33:18.774 --> 01:33:20.663
Like Kramer or like Jerry?

01:33:20.663 --> 01:33:24.904
My grandmother was definitely Estelle Costanza.

01:33:24.904 --> 01:33:25.854
Oh, yeah.

01:33:26.253 --> 01:33:28.344
I got it.

01:33:28.394 --> 01:33:29.149
I got it.

01:33:29.149 --> 01:33:29.934
And the dad too.

01:33:30.203 --> 01:33:31.194
So that was just madness.

01:33:31.194 --> 01:33:45.293
They, my, my dad's parents had a little apartment and actually, uh, right on Coney Island, and so it was really cool to go visit them and we go to like the dirty beach on Brighton beach and like, you know, fill buckets with sand crabs and ride the roller coasters at Coney Island.

01:33:45.304 --> 01:33:46.404
And so that was cool.

01:33:46.404 --> 01:33:46.963
And my mom's.

01:33:46.984 --> 01:33:49.894
Parents, um, they were immigrants from Poland.

01:33:50.134 --> 01:33:50.524
Oh, wow.

01:33:50.529 --> 01:33:50.708
Okay.

01:33:50.769 --> 01:34:01.634
And they were a lot more traditional and yeah, they, uh, they passed when I was pretty young, so I don't have a ton of, they were like immigrants from Poland, like to escape ZI stuff and whatnot.

01:34:01.634 --> 01:34:01.844
Yeah.

01:34:01.849 --> 01:34:02.429
Like that kind of thing.

01:34:02.533 --> 01:34:05.503
I think they both immigrated to United States through the uk.

01:34:05.743 --> 01:34:05.984
Oh, wow.

01:34:06.043 --> 01:34:12.373
And I think they narrowly escaped being persecuted in the Holocaust because they looked Aryan, like they were blonde hair, blue eyed people.

01:34:12.373 --> 01:34:13.663
And Yeah, I was gonna ask about that.

01:34:13.663 --> 01:34:14.594
And that's part of, they were.

01:34:16.139 --> 01:34:24.729
Polish Jews, but not necessarily ethnic or they weren't, they were more Aryan looking as, as you are, I suppose is fair.

01:34:24.738 --> 01:34:30.279
Cause you're big too, for what I consider like the child of little Jewish people in New York or whatever.

01:34:30.649 --> 01:34:32.578
I mean, you're not big, but you're fairly tall.

01:34:32.578 --> 01:34:33.649
You're 5'8 or something.

01:34:33.649 --> 01:34:35.399
You're fairly physically strong.

01:34:35.668 --> 01:34:38.158
Like you could beat me up if I keep talking about how big you are.

01:34:38.158 --> 01:34:39.649
I'm a lover man, not a fighter.

01:34:39.649 --> 01:34:41.219
But I mean, you're not.

01:34:41.588 --> 01:34:42.578
I understand what you're saying.

01:34:42.899 --> 01:34:43.288
Anyway.

01:34:43.354 --> 01:34:47.203
Correct So, um, where were we at?

01:34:47.203 --> 01:34:48.974
We were just talking about, we were talking about my grandparents.

01:34:49.003 --> 01:34:49.184
Yes.

01:34:49.184 --> 01:34:49.243
Okay.

01:34:50.259 --> 01:34:52.479
Um, but, um, yeah.

01:34:52.548 --> 01:34:55.578
Okay, so that was the deeper family history is at least on that side.

01:34:55.708 --> 01:34:55.988
Yeah.

01:34:55.988 --> 01:34:57.628
The others were in New York for a long time kind of thing.

01:34:58.208 --> 01:35:04.588
And, yeah, my parents were both born and bred in Brooklyn and, um, yeah, they were both in public school education.

01:35:04.588 --> 01:35:05.319
They retired.

01:35:05.328 --> 01:35:05.349
Um.

01:35:06.069 --> 01:35:08.378
And they had, like, we were a family of four.

01:35:08.378 --> 01:35:12.599
We grew up in an apartment of, I would probably say, like, about a thousand square feet, which was pretty big.

01:35:12.969 --> 01:35:14.338
Did you have a separate bedroom from your brother?

01:35:14.338 --> 01:35:22.109
I did, but honestly, growing up, like, we were besties, my brother and I, and so he had a bunk bed, so I always slept in his bedroom when we were little.

01:35:22.279 --> 01:35:26.878
But obviously, when I got older and, you know, became a teenager, I was like, I'm sleeping with my little brother.

01:35:27.769 --> 01:35:28.618
I was just too cool for that.

01:35:28.618 --> 01:35:29.238
But just close.

01:35:29.418 --> 01:35:30.538
Yeah, and we still are.

01:35:32.009 --> 01:35:37.368
He married a wonderful woman who is from Muskegon, Michigan, and that's where they live with my niece Carmen.

01:35:37.368 --> 01:35:38.048
Muskegon.

01:35:38.298 --> 01:35:40.448
It's about an hour from Grand Rapids.

01:35:40.448 --> 01:35:41.238
Okay, yeah, yeah.

01:35:41.319 --> 01:35:42.109
On the lake.

01:35:42.389 --> 01:35:43.319
What a nice part of Michigan.

01:35:43.328 --> 01:35:43.988
It's pretty.

01:35:44.158 --> 01:35:44.448
Yeah.

01:35:44.529 --> 01:35:45.269
It is pretty.

01:35:45.368 --> 01:35:45.798
I dig it.

01:35:46.029 --> 01:35:50.868
Um, what would you say, uh, your, uh, favorite quality about your brother is?

01:35:52.059 --> 01:35:53.288
Ah, he's got a big heart.

01:35:53.408 --> 01:35:53.698
Yeah.

01:35:53.759 --> 01:35:54.069
Yeah.

01:35:54.323 --> 01:35:55.724
He's got a big kind heart.

01:35:55.724 --> 01:35:57.073
He might say the same thing about you.

01:35:57.554 --> 01:35:58.613
I don't know.

01:35:58.613 --> 01:35:59.524
Can't spit words in his mouth.

01:36:00.404 --> 01:36:02.743
Um, where'd you meet Wes?

01:36:03.043 --> 01:36:05.783
Wes and I, Wes and I met in Crested Butte.

01:36:05.854 --> 01:36:09.493
And how much, uh, how long before you first met, before you kissed him?

01:36:10.734 --> 01:36:16.384
Oh, Wes and I, we knew each other for a while before we even thought to maybe become interested in each other.

01:36:16.833 --> 01:36:23.713
It's a small town, you pretty much Know everybody that the odds are good, but the goods are good for the concern.

01:36:23.793 --> 01:36:33.033
That's right And I mean I was not looking for a relationship When I started hanging out with wes at all, I was actually living You know about seven miles outside of town on this little.

01:36:33.073 --> 01:36:38.554
Um, you know in a yurt like off the grid I was like, I want to be as isolated as possible.

01:36:38.564 --> 01:36:38.774
Wow.

01:36:38.904 --> 01:36:41.444
Had you had your heart broken or something or what was your premise?

01:36:41.453 --> 01:36:43.064
Wanted to be with myself.

01:36:43.113 --> 01:36:43.474
Yeah.

01:36:43.594 --> 01:36:51.663
Yeah, and You know I started working at Dispatch West at that time, was working for the Crestbeat Marshall's office.

01:36:52.014 --> 01:36:56.774
And so we communicated with each other just because we had to professionally.

01:36:57.184 --> 01:37:00.884
And then I had, we had a mutual friend who had shoulder, shoulder surgery.

01:37:01.444 --> 01:37:03.684
And I picked him up from the hospital and got him home.

01:37:03.684 --> 01:37:07.734
And, um, I was like, hey man, let me stock your fridge so that you're set up.

01:37:08.484 --> 01:37:11.654
And so I went to the store and I was like, I'm going to come home and cook you dinner before I head home.

01:37:11.774 --> 01:37:23.604
And so I went to the store, got back to his place, and He's like, Wes is downstairs winterizing his motorcycle, because Wes would keep his motorcycle in Lars's garage for the winter.

01:37:24.373 --> 01:37:26.404
And he said, see if he wants to come up for dinner.

01:37:26.404 --> 01:37:29.753
I knew Wes, and so I was like, hey Wes, I'm upstairs cooking Lars dinner.

01:37:29.793 --> 01:37:32.333
Like, he just got Got in from surgery.

01:37:32.384 --> 01:37:32.604
Yeah.

01:37:32.804 --> 01:37:33.823
I said, why don't you come up for dinner?

01:37:33.823 --> 01:37:34.884
I was making breakfast for dinner.

01:37:35.163 --> 01:37:37.783
I freaking hate those tubes of biscuits that explode.

01:37:38.703 --> 01:37:39.144
Scary.

01:37:39.144 --> 01:37:41.564
Yeah, the pop worse than a champagne.

01:37:41.713 --> 01:37:49.154
I know and so Wes was just talking about like, hey, you know, I really hope to you know, ride to Baja and eat fish tacos on the beach.

01:37:49.644 --> 01:37:52.373
I was like who is this guy?

01:37:52.944 --> 01:37:57.604
And like, in that moment, I was like, I think I, yes, you got a motorcycle too.

01:37:57.663 --> 01:37:58.144
I know.

01:37:58.444 --> 01:38:00.613
It was like, I just had no idea.

01:38:00.613 --> 01:38:03.043
And so that's, you know, we had made plans to hang out.

01:38:03.043 --> 01:38:03.984
It didn't really happen.

01:38:04.373 --> 01:38:13.314
I was living down in Gunnison at that time because that's where dispatch was about like, you know, 30 miles down valley from Crested Butte, but I was going to be spending New Year's Eve up in Crested Butte that year.

01:38:13.384 --> 01:38:17.024
And I said, Hey man, I'm going to be up in Crested Butte for the night.

01:38:17.094 --> 01:38:19.423
And a bunch of us are planning on going out for dinner.

01:38:19.423 --> 01:38:20.003
Why don't you join us?

01:38:20.003 --> 01:38:20.793
And he did.

01:38:21.529 --> 01:38:27.609
We had dinner, we went out, the Brick Oven is a, was, was a pizza place there, it's no longer open.

01:38:27.609 --> 01:38:28.128
I've been there before.

01:38:28.139 --> 01:38:30.569
I know, it's like, just all these cool memories.

01:38:31.088 --> 01:38:33.649
But we went over to the Brick, where we both worked, actually.

01:38:33.649 --> 01:38:35.759
Like, I was a delivery driver, so was he.

01:38:35.788 --> 01:38:37.519
He worked at the kitchen, I worked at the counter.

01:38:38.059 --> 01:38:42.599
And, um, I said, Hey, I'm going to go grab us a drink.

01:38:42.689 --> 01:38:43.118
What do you want?

01:38:43.118 --> 01:38:44.359
He's like, I'll just get me whatever you're having.

01:38:44.359 --> 01:38:46.448
So I got an IPA and a shot of Maker's Mark.

01:38:46.698 --> 01:38:47.139
Okay.

01:38:47.248 --> 01:38:52.809
And for each of us, and it turns out that Wes is an IPA drinker and he loves Maker's Mark.

01:38:52.809 --> 01:38:54.793
And I.

01:38:55.213 --> 01:39:00.283
Did not want to drive home that night because I had been drinking and everybody else had got home.

01:39:00.293 --> 01:39:05.274
Well, then I was like shit I Was like hey, I said services in that loop.

01:39:05.913 --> 01:39:09.533
Oh, no, then I didn't cross the Butte Didn't exist yet.

01:39:09.823 --> 01:39:12.974
Oh, and so I was like, hey, can I stay your place?

01:39:14.184 --> 01:39:19.594
But I was Very clear, I was like, I am sleeping on your couch, like, I am not doing this tonight.

01:39:20.033 --> 01:39:20.673
And so I did.

01:39:20.673 --> 01:39:24.314
Like, we, I, you know, we went and we sat on his futon, we watched Gross Point Blank.

01:39:24.344 --> 01:39:25.014
Great movie.

01:39:25.684 --> 01:39:27.113
And I watched Point Blank.

01:39:27.224 --> 01:39:28.533
Oh, Gross Point Point Break.

01:39:28.854 --> 01:39:29.113
Different.

01:39:29.484 --> 01:39:30.554
Gotta watch Gross Point Blank.

01:39:30.673 --> 01:39:31.253
It's a good movie.

01:39:31.274 --> 01:39:31.554
Alright.

01:39:31.953 --> 01:39:33.014
Um, old school.

01:39:33.944 --> 01:39:34.894
I'm surprised you haven't heard of it.

01:39:35.453 --> 01:39:39.274
I think it, it's tickling a memory bell, but I, you know, I, I haven't seen it for sure.

01:39:39.274 --> 01:39:39.823
It's your homework.

01:39:40.033 --> 01:39:40.283
Yeah.

01:39:40.423 --> 01:39:40.533
Okay.

01:39:40.573 --> 01:39:44.194
And, you know, I slept on the futon and that's it.

01:39:44.253 --> 01:39:47.654
We just, we started spending more time with one another and it had me, I don't know, I don't maybe.

01:39:48.229 --> 01:39:49.389
a few weeks, a month.

01:39:49.389 --> 01:39:50.969
Like, I was living out of town.

01:39:50.979 --> 01:39:55.798
He came over for, I cooked dinner one night and it turns out, like, I found out I cooked all the things he hates.

01:39:56.399 --> 01:39:57.309
I was like, I didn't know.

01:39:57.309 --> 01:39:58.729
I was like, I'm going to make us nice dinner.

01:39:58.729 --> 01:40:07.128
And it's like all the things he didn't want to eat, like salmon filet and, uh, like mashed potatoes and with this, all this garlic and it's like all this stuff that he didn't want to eat.

01:40:07.538 --> 01:40:14.708
And, uh, He left after dinner that night and nothing happened and Not even a kissy yet?

01:40:14.868 --> 01:40:15.509
Not yet.

01:40:15.569 --> 01:40:18.668
And he left and I think he, it was winter and he left his gloves.

01:40:18.929 --> 01:40:22.328
And he was outside trying to probably scrape his windshield and realized, oh my gloves are inside.

01:40:22.769 --> 01:40:25.243
So he came in for his gloves and That was our first kiss.

01:40:25.774 --> 01:40:26.083
Yeah.

01:40:26.173 --> 01:40:27.363
Like, kind of in the doorway.

01:40:27.413 --> 01:40:27.524
Yeah.

01:40:27.524 --> 01:40:30.234
So that was weeks after the romance kind of started.

01:40:30.234 --> 01:40:31.054
I think so.

01:40:31.283 --> 01:40:32.335
That's very, uh, old fashioned of you.

01:40:32.335 --> 01:40:34.373
I was like, I'm not doing this the same way.

01:40:34.394 --> 01:40:34.823
Right.

01:40:35.064 --> 01:40:38.953
That's always yielded the same outcome, which was an ended relationship, right?

01:40:39.064 --> 01:40:40.073
I was like, we're going to do something different.

01:40:40.123 --> 01:40:44.154
And how long, uh, how long before you guys made it official or you are married?

01:40:44.234 --> 01:40:44.253
Yeah.

01:40:44.394 --> 01:40:44.753
Oh yeah.

01:40:44.764 --> 01:40:46.913
We got married actually when I was in chiropractic school.

01:40:46.913 --> 01:40:50.113
So we dated for about five years before we got married.

01:40:50.144 --> 01:40:50.384
Okay.

01:40:50.384 --> 01:40:50.618
Okay.

01:40:50.779 --> 01:40:56.208
Um, like we talked about before, I dragged him out of paradise to move to Atlanta, Georgia so I could go to school.

01:40:56.208 --> 01:41:03.378
But his family, he grew up in Mobile, Alabama, so it was actually really nice to be close to his family while, for the four years we were down there.

01:41:03.378 --> 01:41:05.689
So we saw them a lot more because it was a pretty easy drive.

01:41:06.469 --> 01:41:11.109
And yeah, we He's like, why wouldn't I marry this girl that's going to come out of college with 185, 000?

01:41:11.109 --> 01:41:11.458
Right?

01:41:12.069 --> 01:41:12.408
Yeah.

01:41:12.743 --> 01:41:13.123
It's good.

01:41:13.264 --> 01:41:15.493
I want, was it four years of chiropractic?

01:41:15.543 --> 01:41:16.213
Two years?

01:41:16.224 --> 01:41:16.573
Four.

01:41:16.894 --> 01:41:17.113
Yeah.

01:41:17.113 --> 01:41:21.113
Well, it's a three and a half year program if you go straight through, but then I had those six months of undergrad work too.

01:41:21.234 --> 01:41:21.514
Okay.

01:41:21.514 --> 01:41:26.043
So it's 50 grand a year ish or at least was ish at that time with all the everything.

01:41:26.123 --> 01:41:26.694
For sure.

01:41:26.703 --> 01:41:27.003
Dang.

01:41:27.434 --> 01:41:30.363
And Wes and I never talked about marriage, ever.

01:41:30.484 --> 01:41:34.043
And so when he proposed, I was completely shocked.

01:41:34.173 --> 01:41:35.083
I had no idea.

01:41:35.123 --> 01:41:35.573
Really?

01:41:35.663 --> 01:41:36.613
No idea.

01:41:37.043 --> 01:41:38.753
Like, you never thought about it?

01:41:39.333 --> 01:41:40.323
Like you were five years in?

01:41:40.413 --> 01:41:44.849
I mean, we were like We were happy and he was my person and we had the cats.

01:41:45.219 --> 01:41:48.319
No, like, I mean, if you haven't noticed, I'm not the most traditional person.

01:41:48.319 --> 01:41:49.109
No, no.

01:41:49.139 --> 01:41:52.208
And so I never felt at that time, I was like, I don't need this.

01:41:52.689 --> 01:41:56.838
certificate just to, like, give me confidence in my relationship.

01:41:57.458 --> 01:42:01.359
And could you even imagine me wearing a traditional wedding dress, Kurt?

01:42:01.458 --> 01:42:02.519
Um, no.

01:42:02.618 --> 01:42:02.798
No.

01:42:03.229 --> 01:42:03.819
Definitely not.

01:42:03.819 --> 01:42:07.158
I've seen you at different, uh, you've won awards where I've been the emcee.

01:42:07.298 --> 01:42:08.748
Yes, you have.

01:42:09.128 --> 01:42:10.038
I think that's how we first met.

01:42:10.048 --> 01:42:10.519
Might have been.

01:42:10.828 --> 01:42:11.838
But, yeah.

01:42:11.878 --> 01:42:13.639
I mean, we did it our own way and it was really cool.

01:42:13.738 --> 01:42:14.109
Yeah.

01:42:14.599 --> 01:42:21.679
What would be your, uh, why would you say, um, you kept coming back, uh, to Wes?

01:42:21.948 --> 01:42:24.189
Was it, like, you just vibed well?

01:42:24.519 --> 01:42:24.868
Yeah.

01:42:24.868 --> 01:42:32.203
Was it He He I mean, now like we've been together for 17 years, like he really is the yin to my yang.

01:42:32.493 --> 01:42:36.913
Like he, he's patient and he's calm.

01:42:36.923 --> 01:42:38.094
He's not nervous.

01:42:38.094 --> 01:42:39.264
He's not a worrier.

01:42:39.264 --> 01:42:45.804
Like, so all of my idiosyncrasies, like he really balances them out really well.

01:42:45.923 --> 01:42:48.184
And that gives me a huge sense of peace.

01:42:48.194 --> 01:42:49.064
It's really good.

01:42:49.064 --> 01:42:56.198
And are you likewise kind of like exciting and stirring things up Yeah, like He'd be just a boring dude.

01:42:56.309 --> 01:42:58.009
No, I don't think Wes would ever be boring.

01:42:58.009 --> 01:43:01.349
Wes, he He doesn't have fish tacos on the beach.

01:43:01.588 --> 01:43:02.219
I know.

01:43:02.219 --> 01:43:06.099
And he's got just this like sleeper, awesome sense of humor.

01:43:06.738 --> 01:43:16.649
Um, but yeah, like I, I'm kind of, I don't know, I guess the party planner, which is interesting role for me because I am not like the most extroverted person.

01:43:16.649 --> 01:43:21.078
Like I really recharge my batteries being home and Well, you're all excellent execution though, I think.

01:43:21.298 --> 01:43:21.668
Yeah.

01:43:21.689 --> 01:43:22.679
And so like, you know.

01:43:23.694 --> 01:43:29.564
If we're going to be, if, if one of us is going to be booking like a ball or vacation, it's going to be me booking it for us, typically.

01:43:29.913 --> 01:43:30.144
Yeah.

01:43:30.194 --> 01:43:32.514
Did you guys ever consider children?

01:43:33.073 --> 01:43:34.753
You know, for a short time.

01:43:34.913 --> 01:43:35.344
Yeah.

01:43:35.373 --> 01:43:53.673
Like, and I don't know that it was ever like out of this massive desire to have kids, but it was maybe more of like, I don't know, like, I don't know if I'd be okay not knowing if it could have been, you know what I mean?

01:43:53.673 --> 01:43:54.203
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:43:54.203 --> 01:43:57.094
Like, just, if it happens, great, if it doesn't happen, great.

01:43:57.104 --> 01:43:57.703
Right, right.

01:43:57.764 --> 01:44:02.264
And actually now that I'm 46, I am eternally grateful that I'm not a mom.

01:44:02.314 --> 01:44:07.363
Like, I love kids, I love my niece, I love caring for kids in my practice, and I just love my life.

01:44:07.394 --> 01:44:11.604
And I love the simplicity of, of, you know, Being able to pick up and go and do what I want when I want to.

01:44:11.604 --> 01:44:15.884
And, um, I, parenting, I can't even imagine how difficult it is.

01:44:15.884 --> 01:44:17.134
The world's a really weird place.

01:44:17.203 --> 01:44:19.173
I was like, uh, 42 maybe.

01:44:19.173 --> 01:44:29.253
And Jill was 36 when her parents were like, Hey, if you want to do the IVF thing or something to try to figure it out, you know, we'll, I was like, that'd be 60.

01:44:30.463 --> 01:44:33.434
You know, I was like, I don't, I don't know if I want that, you know?

01:44:33.434 --> 01:44:35.404
And we were still pretty broke at the time.

01:44:35.404 --> 01:44:36.974
Look at what you guys are doing now.

01:44:36.974 --> 01:44:38.104
Like you're, you're being.

01:44:38.463 --> 01:44:40.293
You know, parents to exchange students.

01:44:40.404 --> 01:44:42.184
Like, there's so many ways to adulting.

01:44:42.234 --> 01:44:44.904
We could foster a kid or something if we wanted to.

01:44:44.904 --> 01:44:45.934
Yes, 100%.

01:44:45.934 --> 01:44:48.043
We can even adopt one as long as they're like 14 already.

01:44:48.514 --> 01:44:48.804
Yeah.

01:44:49.743 --> 01:44:50.094
No diapers.

01:44:50.673 --> 01:44:51.054
Right.

01:44:51.394 --> 01:44:52.984
But man, parenting a teenager?

01:44:53.104 --> 01:44:53.634
Yeah, screw that.

01:44:53.644 --> 01:44:54.134
No thank you.

01:44:54.413 --> 01:44:56.923
Yeah, I mean, I get enough of that with these exchange students, kinda.

01:44:57.014 --> 01:44:57.184
Yeah.

01:44:57.554 --> 01:45:01.073
Try to, try to leave them smarter and more grown up than they came.

01:45:01.213 --> 01:45:02.314
Yeah, we're cat people.

01:45:03.998 --> 01:45:05.418
I don't like to hear that, really.

01:45:05.519 --> 01:45:09.238
We have a cat as well, but I don't, we don't call ourselves cat people.

01:45:09.349 --> 01:45:11.448
I mean, like, we also live in a small condo.

01:45:11.448 --> 01:45:13.479
It wouldn't be, like, ideal for a dog.

01:45:13.479 --> 01:45:19.338
Well, cats are like, Kind of the they're kind of a low investment critter.

01:45:19.349 --> 01:45:20.618
Like they're so self contained.

01:45:20.618 --> 01:45:28.009
Yeah, they like to be petted and stuff like that But if you go away for ten days and we saw Sure, but but they don't need it.

01:45:28.219 --> 01:45:29.548
No, they're self contained.

01:45:29.708 --> 01:45:31.179
Our cats are dog like.

01:45:31.319 --> 01:45:32.328
They like being around people.

01:45:32.338 --> 01:45:39.189
Okay, they're very social Would you have a one word description for your two cats or is it more than one more than two?

01:45:39.189 --> 01:45:43.863
We do we had litter mates Leo and bonkers two males.

01:45:43.863 --> 01:45:45.884
And we lost bonkers last year.

01:45:45.884 --> 01:45:50.154
It was really hard to lose our buddy, but it was also hard on Leo, his brother.

01:45:50.154 --> 01:45:52.634
Like he'd never been alone his whole life for 15 years.

01:45:52.644 --> 01:45:57.283
He's 15 years old and he was a sad boy.

01:45:57.404 --> 01:46:02.493
And so we're like, you know, Wes and I weren't necessarily ready, but we're like, we're going to get our cat a cat.

01:46:03.384 --> 01:46:04.104
And so we did.

01:46:04.144 --> 01:46:06.173
We got a, we adopted from Animal Friends Alliance.

01:46:06.314 --> 01:46:07.184
They're wonderful.

01:46:07.184 --> 01:46:18.769
And so, And we got a little Calico who was a stray and they thought she was about a year and a half and she had just had a litter of kittens and she was like sort of found on the street and taken into a foster home and we went to meet her.

01:46:18.769 --> 01:46:19.838
We've just fell in love with her.

01:46:19.838 --> 01:46:21.868
She was just the sweetest, skinniest little thing.

01:46:21.868 --> 01:46:25.149
And, um, we got her home, you know, for two days.

01:46:25.179 --> 01:46:25.498
Oh yeah.

01:46:25.618 --> 01:46:27.509
So we thought she's a lunatic.

01:46:28.099 --> 01:46:31.529
Her name is Birdie and she's just, uh, she's a wild cat.

01:46:31.538 --> 01:46:35.729
And she, you know, she has a 15 year old brother who.

01:46:36.173 --> 01:46:41.684
You know, Leo's pretty chill and Bernie just wants to chase him around and fuck with his tail.

01:46:41.724 --> 01:46:42.833
He's like, can you know.

01:46:43.144 --> 01:46:46.123
So, you know, it's, they're not besties, but they co exist.

01:46:46.423 --> 01:46:48.234
They co exist like the bumper sticker.

01:46:48.264 --> 01:46:48.694
Right.

01:46:48.793 --> 01:46:49.673
Yeah, they're alright.

01:46:49.873 --> 01:46:51.113
Um, politics.

01:46:51.163 --> 01:46:54.583
We better, uh, try to be efficient with our time here to get you out on time.

01:46:55.043 --> 01:46:57.194
Uh, where do you politics lie?

01:46:57.224 --> 01:47:00.203
What's your, uh Ugh, I don't feel like the current president.

01:47:00.529 --> 01:47:09.908
Political system has a party or a individual that reflects my beliefs.

01:47:11.038 --> 01:47:16.219
Um, how did you, you didn't, uh, take a week off after the Trump election though.

01:47:16.219 --> 01:47:17.269
It wasn't that serious.

01:47:17.349 --> 01:47:17.679
That's scary.

01:47:17.689 --> 01:47:27.069
You know, I just keep on keeping on like, there's that, like, you know, you make your voice though and you, you cast a vote and that's the cool part about democracy is you accept the outcome.

01:47:27.128 --> 01:47:27.529
Right.

01:47:27.588 --> 01:47:34.788
And you know, it's hard because I think there's ideals espoused by the democratic party that I'm like, yes, there's ideals espoused by the Republican party.

01:47:34.788 --> 01:47:35.548
I'm like, yes.

01:47:37.059 --> 01:47:40.939
But at the end of the day, A person's a person.

01:47:41.279 --> 01:47:43.309
How about, uh, how about Canada?

01:47:43.319 --> 01:47:45.668
Should we take Canada as our 51st state?

01:47:45.668 --> 01:47:46.212
Have you been watching that?

01:47:46.212 --> 01:47:48.179
I have a lot of really good friends in Canada.

01:47:48.939 --> 01:47:51.109
I'd love for them to be Be a state with us.

01:47:51.109 --> 01:47:52.328
Yeah, then we could just go there.

01:47:52.529 --> 01:47:52.958
Right?

01:47:53.418 --> 01:47:54.149
No passport?

01:47:54.229 --> 01:47:55.238
Yeah, exactly.

01:47:55.698 --> 01:47:56.769
Drive across the border?

01:47:57.628 --> 01:47:58.189
I don't know.

01:47:58.189 --> 01:48:05.298
You know, I, I try to walk a fine line, you know, politically and just being like, having my head buried in the news, like I want to, I want to be informed.

01:48:05.298 --> 01:48:09.878
I don't want to be ignorant to what's happening in the world, but I can't get lost in it either because it's just madness.

01:48:09.889 --> 01:48:17.139
Well, and if, if 65 percent of Canadians said, yeah, actually, it sounds pretty nice to be a state instead.

01:48:18.154 --> 01:48:19.644
That could just do it, right?

01:48:19.694 --> 01:48:20.783
I have no idea.

01:48:21.194 --> 01:48:22.453
That's above my pay grade.

01:48:22.453 --> 01:48:23.984
I think I'm good at a lot of things.

01:48:23.984 --> 01:48:26.444
And actually my office, there's not a lot of rules.

01:48:26.444 --> 01:48:31.474
Like, you know, I take what I do really seriously as far as like the doctoring part, but we have a great time.

01:48:31.474 --> 01:48:33.384
We have a really upbeat environment in my office.

01:48:33.384 --> 01:48:34.373
We have a great time.

01:48:34.373 --> 01:48:42.484
Like there's always laughter and fun, but the one rule I have is we don't talk politics in the office and we don't talk religion in the office because everyone comes from a different place.

01:48:43.354 --> 01:48:47.344
You know, I don't know who's sitting in my lobby or in the chair outside the adjusting room listening to this conversation.

01:48:47.783 --> 01:48:52.293
And no matter what my beliefs are, it has no bearing on my ability to care for the person in front of me.

01:48:52.604 --> 01:48:56.184
And I would never want that to be the reason why somebody was put off from getting the care that they need.

01:48:56.243 --> 01:48:56.694
Yeah, that's fair.

01:48:57.094 --> 01:48:57.373
Alright.

01:48:57.384 --> 01:49:05.434
So that's the one rule I for me, I like, I think it's better to talk about things a little bit instead of it being like topics that you can't talk about.

01:49:05.434 --> 01:49:05.953
For sure.

01:49:05.984 --> 01:49:07.323
In certain venues and.

01:49:07.423 --> 01:49:07.713
Right.

01:49:07.953 --> 01:49:08.213
You know.

01:49:08.253 --> 01:49:09.203
Podcasts are probably better.

01:49:09.923 --> 01:49:10.283
Like.

01:49:10.543 --> 01:49:10.703
Yeah.

01:49:10.703 --> 01:49:12.673
Like I hope it was very comfortable talking about.

01:49:12.724 --> 01:49:13.253
Oh, it's okay.

01:49:13.264 --> 01:49:13.953
The faith topic.

01:49:13.963 --> 01:49:14.363
For sure.

01:49:14.373 --> 01:49:18.279
Earlier and just, you know, curious about matzo balls and Hanukkah and what not also.

01:49:18.279 --> 01:49:19.154
It's good food, man.

01:49:19.604 --> 01:49:19.814
Yeah.

01:49:19.823 --> 01:49:22.213
But not when I have a, like a waiting room full of people.

01:49:22.413 --> 01:49:22.604
Right.

01:49:22.604 --> 01:49:23.613
Like that's not the time or the place.

01:49:24.344 --> 01:49:26.463
If you've got matzo ball breath, you're not coming to my clinic.

01:49:26.463 --> 01:49:26.493
Right.

01:49:28.554 --> 01:49:29.934
Yeah, it's, I mean, it's weird.

01:49:29.944 --> 01:49:34.234
Like, oh man, social media is just such a weird place.

01:49:34.274 --> 01:49:37.724
What do you think about Facebook changing their policy?

01:49:37.833 --> 01:49:40.003
I don't see, I did see it.

01:49:40.003 --> 01:49:43.594
We'll see if that, uh, actually holds to be true.

01:49:44.354 --> 01:49:45.264
What do you think about it?

01:49:45.304 --> 01:49:46.894
It's like, you think it's good for Facebook?

01:49:47.698 --> 01:49:49.198
That there's not fact checkers.

01:49:49.208 --> 01:49:49.729
Right.

01:49:49.929 --> 01:49:53.059
Or that they're more of a community notes model kind of thing.

01:49:53.118 --> 01:49:53.548
I don't know.

01:49:54.229 --> 01:49:55.189
I don't know.

01:49:55.219 --> 01:49:57.988
If somebody's a fact checker, they're always corruptible, it feels like.

01:49:57.988 --> 01:49:59.719
Of course, there's always a bias to it.

01:49:59.738 --> 01:49:59.988
Yeah.

01:50:00.458 --> 01:50:07.248
And no matter what you're looking for, you're going to find, you're going to find the answer out there.

01:50:07.269 --> 01:50:14.128
Like, as in, if you think you're right, you can find evidence there that you're right.

01:50:14.533 --> 01:50:14.679
Right.

01:50:14.679 --> 01:50:16.179
Uh, you know Babylon B?

01:50:16.179 --> 01:50:16.328
Yeah.

01:50:16.328 --> 01:50:16.628
Yeah.

01:50:17.198 --> 01:50:35.073
They, they released their top 10, uh, fact check moments of 2024 to commemorate Facebook's, uh, Zuckerberg's, so that the top one was, uh, their article was, uh, CNN purchases industrial sized washing machine to spin the news before publication.

01:50:36.413 --> 01:50:42.224
And Facebook threatened them with, like, banning their account because it wasn't obvious that this was satire.

01:50:42.894 --> 01:50:44.264
Oh my god.

01:50:45.623 --> 01:50:47.743
Anyway, uh, I like the Babylon Bee.

01:50:47.743 --> 01:50:48.804
I think it's pretty hilarious.

01:50:49.064 --> 01:50:49.564
It's funny.

01:50:50.404 --> 01:50:52.974
I think all of that's made us incredibly dumber, though.

01:50:53.578 --> 01:50:54.179
Social media.

01:50:54.298 --> 01:50:55.009
Oh for sure.

01:50:55.009 --> 01:50:55.469
Yeah.

01:50:55.529 --> 01:50:57.498
No, I'm a pump and dump kind of guy.

01:50:57.498 --> 01:51:04.469
I drop my podcasts on it and I go down the rabbit hole sometimes and I'm like, who are these people and why am I looking at their photos?

01:51:08.168 --> 01:51:13.059
The loco experience Are you prepared to share your loco experience?

01:51:13.309 --> 01:51:14.769
Not your loco think tank experience?

01:51:14.779 --> 01:51:23.828
Oh, yeah Although you can do a commercial there if you'd like to, but the namesake of the podcast is the craziest experience of your lifetime that you're willing to share.

01:51:25.548 --> 01:51:31.788
You know, you had prepared me that you were going to ask this question in the email, and I, to be honest, haven't given much thought to it.

01:51:31.809 --> 01:51:33.168
Well, it's best on the cuff anyway.

01:51:33.179 --> 01:51:33.828
I know.

01:51:33.939 --> 01:51:36.988
I, you know, we talked a lot about like, I've had a really eclectic life.

01:51:36.988 --> 01:51:37.655
Yeah.

01:51:37.655 --> 01:51:44.099
Any, like, life threatening experiences, near deaths, anything like that?

01:51:44.548 --> 01:51:45.588
Thank God, no.

01:51:45.719 --> 01:51:46.029
Okay.

01:51:46.128 --> 01:51:50.179
Um, you know, I took some crazy 911 calls, for sure.

01:51:50.179 --> 01:51:50.309
Okay.

01:51:50.309 --> 01:51:50.328
Yeah.

01:51:52.038 --> 01:51:55.248
What do you think is the most number of beers you've ever had in one day?

01:51:57.109 --> 01:51:58.168
Definitely an undergrad.

01:51:58.269 --> 01:52:00.208
I'm just going to keep asking you inappropriate questions.

01:52:00.208 --> 01:52:00.828
That's fine.

01:52:00.838 --> 01:52:02.748
Until you've come up with a good local experience.

01:52:02.759 --> 01:52:05.798
Oh gosh, like you're just distracting me from the task at hand.

01:52:06.639 --> 01:52:07.319
We went to St.

01:52:07.319 --> 01:52:07.738
Lucia.

01:52:08.154 --> 01:52:08.694
Recently.

01:52:08.724 --> 01:52:08.904
Yeah.

01:52:08.993 --> 01:52:20.713
Um, and we were there for 10 days and they got these little petton, like 270 milliliter, 4.5% little beers.

01:52:20.774 --> 01:52:20.833
Yeah.

01:52:20.833 --> 01:52:26.463
That was kind of the island beer And they're just like, you just drink'em.

01:52:26.463 --> 01:52:28.654
Especially when you're coming from elevation.

01:52:28.743 --> 01:52:28.894
Sure.

01:52:29.644 --> 01:52:34.833
So my estimate was like around 150 peons in 10 days, like 15.

01:52:34.953 --> 01:52:36.094
I would die a day for me.

01:52:36.184 --> 01:52:36.634
I would die.

01:52:36.694 --> 01:52:37.354
No, you wouldn't.

01:52:37.934 --> 01:52:38.863
Like not at sea level.

01:52:39.389 --> 01:52:39.738
Maybe.

01:52:39.788 --> 01:52:41.048
That's like six IPAs.

01:52:41.149 --> 01:52:43.279
I feel like I got That's like six IPAs, seriously.

01:52:43.288 --> 01:52:46.618
Most of my drinking behind me, seriously, when I was in high school.

01:52:46.878 --> 01:52:47.408
Oh, good.

01:52:47.408 --> 01:52:47.609
Yeah.

01:52:48.128 --> 01:52:54.488
So, um, So you don't have any vices in the, in the drinking days, even when you were ski bombing and stuff like that?

01:52:54.759 --> 01:52:58.979
Yeah, I mean we partied for sure, but not like heavy, crazy stuff.

01:52:59.158 --> 01:53:04.408
I don't know, like I've, I like to have fun, but I also like have this cautious part of me.

01:53:04.408 --> 01:53:07.208
You never took a hero's dose of mushrooms or anything like that?

01:53:07.219 --> 01:53:08.229
No, not a hero's dose.

01:53:08.229 --> 01:53:09.139
You don't have hero's doses?

01:53:09.139 --> 01:53:09.168
No.

01:53:09.389 --> 01:53:09.868
I do.

01:53:10.958 --> 01:53:19.099
I've never experienced it personally, but I don't know, like maybe I'm too much of a control freak to, you know, I think, yeah, probably want to let go like that, but maybe it'd be good for me.

01:53:19.099 --> 01:53:19.439
I don't know.

01:53:19.488 --> 01:53:20.109
I don't know.

01:53:20.158 --> 01:53:20.618
I don't know.

01:53:20.948 --> 01:53:21.538
Oh dude.

01:53:21.838 --> 01:53:27.993
Rick Perry, uh, the former governor of Texas was on Rogan advocating for Ibogaine.

01:53:30.094 --> 01:53:39.234
That's like this like kind of terrible gross drug, but it's getting a lot of the PTSD People and the suicidal things and getting people off opioids.

01:53:39.394 --> 01:53:57.198
Oh more than anything So this he was on there with this guy from Kentucky that got like everything Crossed bridges except for the new administration came in and pulled the plug on doing a study of this Ibogaine drug to mostly to get people off the opioids, fucking people up all over Appalachia.

01:53:57.988 --> 01:54:01.918
Um, but it's also fucking people up in Texas and Wisconsin and Nebraska and everywhere else.

01:54:01.948 --> 01:54:07.918
And actually, you know, there's different organizations within chiropractic that do a lot of lobbying and no one else helps with pain relief.

01:54:08.389 --> 01:54:09.128
Chiropractic care.

01:54:09.588 --> 01:54:11.048
I mean, as corny as that sounds, it's true.

01:54:11.078 --> 01:54:13.908
Like it's a natural way of helping people deal with pain.

01:54:13.908 --> 01:54:23.798
So anyway, it's a really interesting, um, I guess it's kind of adjacent to the political side, but with this, like you think about Uh, with the, the maha element of the maggot too, right?

01:54:23.809 --> 01:54:25.208
I hope some of that stuff is true.

01:54:25.208 --> 01:54:27.918
I hope we get food additives out of our supply.

01:54:27.979 --> 01:54:28.319
Totally.

01:54:28.538 --> 01:54:30.083
You know, I hope some of the, like, I hope, I hope.

01:54:30.974 --> 01:54:33.854
These ideas people are gonna put their money where their mouths are.

01:54:33.854 --> 01:54:38.904
I really sincerely do agree Did you think of anything crazy look crazy experience?

01:54:38.904 --> 01:54:40.543
Nothing give me like a topic.

01:54:40.594 --> 01:54:46.043
I don't know Gosh, like I've literally had like seven near death experience.

01:54:46.083 --> 01:54:46.484
Really?

01:54:46.484 --> 01:54:51.194
I mean, I don't like I haven't had like a boring life by any stretch Yeah, nothing.

01:54:51.363 --> 01:55:07.208
So I mean anything that really I guess to me like One thing that's kind of crazy is like, you're like, I signed up for this AmeriCorps thing, and they're like, Here, drive this truck to this place, and you're like, I don't, I mean, But it's, like, we kind of covered that, and it's not really crazy crazy.

01:55:07.208 --> 01:55:08.399
It's not crazy crazy.

01:55:08.548 --> 01:55:13.559
Have you ever done a long road trip to a foreign land where you didn't really know what you were doing?

01:55:13.599 --> 01:55:15.319
Well, I mean, I drove to Crested Butte by myself.

01:55:15.719 --> 01:55:16.838
Yeah, that's pretty crazy.

01:55:17.618 --> 01:55:19.458
A week after the dude said, G.

01:55:19.458 --> 01:55:19.538
A.

01:55:19.538 --> 01:55:20.498
K., I'm not going.

01:55:20.529 --> 01:55:20.828
Sure.

01:55:21.173 --> 01:55:23.264
I mean, that was a big leap in my life for sure.

01:55:23.264 --> 01:55:25.064
I think going to chiropractic school was another big leap.

01:55:25.854 --> 01:55:27.163
Um, that's not crazy though.

01:55:27.163 --> 01:55:39.913
It's just like seeing an opportunity and, you know, I think the move out to Crested Butte from, I mean, the walk in closet that you were living in was a pretty big draw, I'm sure.

01:55:39.923 --> 01:55:42.293
And so it was kind of, Like you said time to make a change.

01:55:42.314 --> 01:55:48.804
Yeah, but I mean that changed the trajectory of my whole life for sure But had you even been no to the rockies before sight unseen?

01:55:50.073 --> 01:56:09.173
I didn't know I was moving to literally a town at the end of a dead end road 1100 people I had no idea And now I think honestly having traveled more of the state of colorado after being you know, i've been here for a long time I still think that's the most beautiful place, you know one thing that uh, People say like one thing that's interesting about marriage.

01:56:09.173 --> 01:56:14.793
You've been 17 years You is that it's like, you don't, you don't stay married to the same person.

01:56:14.793 --> 01:56:17.264
Like we all have these different chapters in our life.

01:56:17.264 --> 01:56:27.104
And that's one reason to be married is so that provided you both want to stay, like you're just patient enough to weather some of these changes in chapters or whatever.

01:56:28.038 --> 01:56:29.059
For sure.

01:56:29.304 --> 01:56:37.923
So, and I mean, I'm so glad to have somebody to come home to that almost doesn't live in the same world, right?

01:56:37.934 --> 01:56:41.594
Like that's why we have our entrepreneurial peers because they get what we were going through.

01:56:41.594 --> 01:56:46.248
And it's just nice to come home and be like, let's just start Watch the episode of Bad TV.

01:56:46.809 --> 01:56:54.743
Do you want to give a shout out to, uh Either Moses, uh, my landlord here, uh, chapter, your chapter facilitator for sure.

01:56:54.873 --> 01:56:58.673
So I, I think we started, I mean, this is going to sound super weird.

01:56:58.673 --> 01:56:59.854
I started in 2019.

01:56:59.854 --> 01:57:12.264
I, the reason I remember that is because that's the year my mom passed away and I remember having one of my first chapter meetings and it was literally like, I was probably June of 2019 cause my mom passed in May and you know, we do these check ins and they're, you know, at a scale of zero to 10, how you doing personally?

01:57:12.264 --> 01:57:17.354
I'm like, like two, like pretty shitty, but these are people that I just met and I'm like, yeah, I don't know how.

01:57:18.073 --> 01:57:25.604
Deep of a dive to take and, and you know, so many of those people who were in that room that day are still in the room.

01:57:25.743 --> 01:57:27.644
And I'm so grateful.

01:57:27.654 --> 01:57:29.713
Like Moses is an incredible facilitator.

01:57:29.713 --> 01:57:36.423
Like he's just got all these years of experience and he's willing to share it from his own abundance.

01:57:36.423 --> 01:57:36.724
Right.

01:57:36.764 --> 01:57:39.844
Like, and it's like, I look forward to it.

01:57:39.854 --> 01:57:43.543
Like, you know, when we first talked, I'm like, I got to sit in a room for four hours.

01:57:44.113 --> 01:57:46.224
But like, I look forward to that every single month.

01:57:46.264 --> 01:57:47.444
And like that.

01:57:48.024 --> 01:57:57.873
I let go of a lot of stuff like during COVID as far as, um, memberships and groups and all this stuff that I was doing, because you know, what you get out of something is what you're able to put into it.

01:57:57.923 --> 01:58:01.453
And I realized it was a good time to evaluate a lot of that stuff.

01:58:01.453 --> 01:58:06.243
And I was like, well, you know, here's what I'm keeping and here's what I'm letting go of.

01:58:06.243 --> 01:58:16.423
And I'm so grateful, like for my group, like they have become really important people in my life and people who understand like the ins and outs of what we go through.

01:58:16.423 --> 01:58:31.779
So like, I think that's, uh, Testament to you and like what you've created the space that you've created to help us, you know, it's the space Yes, it's the but it's the people that create experience, you know, yeah And I mean, I don't know what other chapters are like, but I like to think we're the best you're right up there You're right up there.

01:58:32.069 --> 01:58:40.569
You just can't say it If people want to look up precision Precisionchiropractic.

01:58:40.738 --> 01:58:41.819
org or com or something like that?

01:58:41.819 --> 01:58:47.078
Yes, there's a lot of Precision Chiropractics and ironically I know most of them across the country, right?

01:58:47.109 --> 01:58:47.979
So we're PrecisionChiroCO.

01:58:49.458 --> 01:58:50.139
com Okay, got it.

01:58:50.149 --> 01:58:51.189
Yep, CO for Colorado.

01:58:51.229 --> 01:58:55.042
And do you do like, Instagrams or LinkedIn?

01:58:55.042 --> 01:58:59.109
Yep, so it's uh, I suck at the social media thing for my business.

01:58:59.109 --> 01:59:04.029
Like I put stuff up there, like we have a platform that automatically solicits review from patients.

01:59:04.029 --> 01:59:06.969
So when people leave us reviews, they automatically post our social media.

01:59:07.168 --> 01:59:08.259
Like, I don't mind it.

01:59:08.448 --> 01:59:15.259
Like, I don't take care of it that much, but we are on Instagram and Facebook at Precision Chiro CO and I have a personal LinkedIn profile.

01:59:15.309 --> 01:59:16.139
Jay Brewer, DC.

01:59:16.429 --> 01:59:16.649
Cool.

01:59:16.779 --> 01:59:16.969
Yep.

01:59:17.319 --> 01:59:18.908
Anything you want to ask me before we wrap up?

01:59:21.259 --> 01:59:22.319
What do you think about the tank?

01:59:22.628 --> 01:59:23.658
I think it's really cool.

01:59:23.668 --> 01:59:24.542
You've been inside it before, right?

01:59:24.542 --> 01:59:25.338
We've been inside it, yep.

01:59:25.338 --> 01:59:25.658
I thought so.

01:59:25.698 --> 01:59:27.109
Um, when we were at your place.

01:59:27.109 --> 01:59:33.759
We need to, um, be better about trying to, I would like to do a, uh, like at least a maybe three, four, five.

01:59:34.349 --> 01:59:39.219
Riggs camping trip and go up to some kind of national forest, maybe just up to Veda Vu area.

01:59:39.219 --> 01:59:40.578
Yeah, for sure up there.

01:59:40.689 --> 01:59:41.328
Yeah, it's sweet.

01:59:41.328 --> 01:59:42.368
We could hike, we could ride bikes.

01:59:42.378 --> 01:59:42.838
Totally.

01:59:42.948 --> 01:59:43.668
Let's do it.

01:59:43.679 --> 01:59:44.769
Okay, let's get a weekend.

01:59:44.788 --> 01:59:46.118
Loco van extravaganza.

01:59:46.118 --> 01:59:47.118
Yep, Camperoo.

01:59:47.168 --> 01:59:47.569
We're in.

01:59:47.708 --> 01:59:48.069
All right.

01:59:48.109 --> 01:59:48.368
Okay.

01:59:48.408 --> 01:59:48.819
Thanks, Jade.

01:59:49.048 --> 01:59:49.368
Thanks, Kurt.

01:59:49.658 --> 01:59:50.029
Bye for now.

01:59:50.059 --> 01:59:50.338
Bye.