EXPERIENCE 195 | Exit Strategies and Growth Capital for the Lower Middle Market - A Conversation with Aaron McCambridge, Managing Director of Citadel Advisory Group in Fort Collins

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Welcome back to the local experience podcast.

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My guest today is Aaron McCambridge, and Aaron is the Managing Director down at Citadel Advisory Group.

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Yes, what's that mean?

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Thank you for having what's what's Citadel.

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Citadel is.

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I know a little bit, but yeah, yeah.

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Um, so we are a, um, MNA advisory firm mergers and acquisitions, um, focusing kind of in the, what we deem as the lower middle market, um, which client side.

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On the client side.

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Yeah.

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So size wise revenue kind of up to a hundred million.

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And I would say most, most of our experience, we probably stop in the 80 range.

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I mean, historically, um, 80 million in terms of size.

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Um, and down as low as we've done deals.

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I mean, typically, Um, you know, our target market is between 10 and a hundred, right?

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Okay.

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Revenue wise.

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But, um, typically, you know, we'll get referrals in, that'll be smaller than that, that we'll take on a case by case basis.

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Try to help them become that 10 to whatever.

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Well, either that, like from a consulting standpoint or, um, if they want to help, you know, get to that point or, um, they may need help in other areas.

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So we'll do that on occasion.

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Um, Um, but from a, from a transaction side of things, it's the buyer pool is just completely different for those that fall on the lower end.

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Um, but we get a lot of potential consulting leading to a later transaction that, that happens.

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Absolutely.

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So what's the value proposition?

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Like, is it just understanding your way around that world and helping to be able to position your clients for that?

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Capital injection and what do you do with it kind of stuff or whatever.

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Yeah.

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How to get the right value out of it.

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Yeah.

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So, um, there are a lot of misnomers out there, right?

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About the, just the process, right?

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The process itself is.

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It can be challenging, it can take a long time, it's very emotional, um, outside of kind of the technical nature of the things that you do along the way, right?

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Yeah, complicated financial transactions.

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Analyzing financial stuff and, yeah.

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Um, you know, legal things, which we, you know, always bring in outside counsel for transaction work, but, um, you know, the process is, is a complicated one, it's not, uh, there's no, a lot of guide for that.

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Yeah, kind of a, absolutely.

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And so I would say.

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Like one of the things that I really enjoy doing is managing that process.

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One of the things I really, I don't enjoy doing is the business development side of things.

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Like I'm not a, I've never been a sales guy, right.

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Like out there.

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So, um, most of our business comes in via referral.

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It's a small industry, I'm sure, right?

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Mostly Colorado clients, or do you work across the country?

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Um, so we work across the country.

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Um, currently, um, most are in Colorado.

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Yeah.

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Um, Um, but we're also a fairly small firm, right?

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So I mean, there's only three of us, really, um, one that's, um, kind of helping us with the BD side of things.

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And then myself and Matt, who's my, um, business partner.

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And, um, so we can only juggle so many transactions at once, right?

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So I'd say at any given time, we'll never have more than five or six, right?

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Kind of on the high end.

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It's a little bit like being a.

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Banker in my space.

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I mean, what would you be called an investment banker?

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Well, so not really because you're not brokering anything specifically.

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Well, and we are, they changed the rules a number of years ago.

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So, so if you were to look at Citadel, when I joined 13 years ago, it was, um, Citadel advisory group, investment bankers.

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And the difference really between investment bankers and business brokerage was Um, size of deal, right.

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And complexity, right.

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And so, um, and, and the licensing piece, right, right now, they changed the rule a number of years ago to where, um, we're not required to have securities licenses.

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Um, you know, doing a transaction and we weren't required actually prior.

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I'm going to get into the weeds, but um, depending on the type of transaction, um, you were required to have a securities license in a stock sale, for instance, whereas you weren't required in an asset sale and 90 plus percent of the deals are assets.

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Right, right.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So you've kind of, you're doing the same general stuff.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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It's the same.

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I mean, it's the same, it's the same process.

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It's the same world.

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It's everything is the same.

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It's just some of the regulations, um, that changed, uh, allowed us to do deals up to 25 million of earnings, um, without a licensing requirement.

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And they open that up to everybody.

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Um, so yeah, those under a hundred million dollar revenue companies, like it takes a really good one to make more than 25 million earnings.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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So that kind of opens up that space.

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And then the difference there, like on the investment banking side, and there are a number of different areas of investment banking, but, um, They're, we're not raising capital specifically, right?

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So, um, we're not out there promoting, uh, yeah, exactly.

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Bringing investors in for a big talk where your founders are going to raise some sourcing funding.

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And, and I mean, we'll source, um, we'll connect, you know, debt players, um, or even a private equity group.

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You could make an introduction.

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And that's, you know, that's actually more often than not what happens, whether it's private equity or a strategic acquirer or a family office, another type of financial buyer, um, that is the buyer community that we deal with most often.

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And, but you're a, you're a seller's agent basically, functionally, at least.

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Yeah, we, we traditionally work at sell side.

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So.

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You as the business owner are looking to exit your business, or bring in growth capital, or bring in a partner, or what have you.

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Um, then we'll help facilitate that transaction, we'll help you on the front end, kind of, Okay, Kurt, what are you looking to do?

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What are your goals?

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Which is probably more like a per hour consultancy.

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No, that's, that's part of the, that's part of our service.

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Oh, you just get all that free service.

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We do.

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Oh, right.

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I could just check you out for a test drive and be like pulling your chain the whole time.

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Well, could, and it's happened.

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Um, which, uh, you know, you learn those lessons along the way, but, um, no, we're, I mean, we're big believers and always have been, you know, you do right by people and it comes back to you.

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So it's, um, yeah.

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It's really one of those, we want, it's really important to, to kind of set it up properly.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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On the front end.

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There's a lot of risk of conflict of interest.

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And do you get like a, Thing on the back end.

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Yeah.

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So we get paid on a success fee basis.

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Oh, wow.

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So when the transaction is done, so we help a seller, you know, sell his or her company and you know, a year or two later is when we get paid.

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Oh wow.

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So we're doing all this front end work with nothing.

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So we're, you know, kind of putting it all out there for, for the benefit of, of both, you know, the client and, and us in the end.

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And like, what's the range?

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Uh, is it like house, 3%, 5%, 8%, 15 range of fee.

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Yeah.

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I'm just curious about the revenue model and it's probably not in my business.

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No, it's fine.

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It, it varies, but, but traditionally we've charged 4 percent on the first 25 million and 2 percent thereafter.

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So, um, now that may.

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Increase as deals get smaller because believe it or not.

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And you may remember this as a banker, right?

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Like smaller deals are harder to get done.

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It's way harder to do 10 hundred thousand dollar loans than it is to do one, 1 million loan.

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That's exactly right.

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So fair enough.

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Okay.

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Um, but that's traditionally how it, how it's structured.

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And then, um, you know, from a timing standpoint, it's, um, depending on the, the client, why do you get paid a year or two after, well, that's how long a deal takes.

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Oh, right.

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But after the deal is done, you get paid pretty much right away at the closing.

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We would write, but you weren't for free for a year and a half or something.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So.

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I mean, we've closed deals, the shortest deal we ever did.

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And it was kind of right after I started at the firm.

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Um, and granted everything was teed up on both sides, but it closed in 45 days, which is unheard of.

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And that will never happen again, I don't think.

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But, um, that was kind of stars aligning and everybody was kind of teed up and it was just a matter of like getting legal squared away.

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Yeah.

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Um, And the longest deal that we were ever a part of that closed, um, was five and a half years.

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So, which is a long time to, you know, I'm guessing it was something that started conversation before COVID and then, Oh, this was 10 years ago.

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Years and years ago.

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Okay.

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Cause the industry changed so dramatically during that time.

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It was like, well, we want to make a deal, but.

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We have no idea if there's going to be a marketplace for this.

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Well, yeah.

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And that's, I mean, that's the case always, right.

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It depends on the industry.

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It depends on the type of company.

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Um, you know, the, the market changes in, in terms of what, what a buyer is looking for, right.

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Well, there's been a lot of absorption of little firms in the oil field services.

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industry, especially, right, or not little firms, but like medium size and even the gas players and stuff.

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Yeah.

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So certainly, um, in oil and gas and that world's changed quite a bit.

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So when I started at the firm, it was focused solely in oil and gas because that was the hot oil services.

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Yeah.

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Um, partially, I mean, it was hot.

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When it was, you know, when that was going, but, um, the founder at the time, Chris, um, he started the firm as a, as a generalist firm.

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So doing all kinds of deals, um, and then made that transition into oil and gas in kind of 08, 09, and then, um, And then kind of quickly became the sole focus of the firm up until probably 2018.

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Okay.

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At which point, um, we started to just kind of broaden our reach region a little bit and, and come back.

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Right.

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There's certain things that we, um, we don't get involved in because we just don't have any expertise there.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Like healthcare and Right.

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You know, tech and stuff like that.

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Right.

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It's, that's all kind of gray matter to me.

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I mean, you're kind of more blue colliery things.

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There was a HVAC company or a concrete firm or whatever, asphalt construction business.

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Yeah.

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So it could be, could be anything like that.

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I mean, we're still big proponents of energy, um, you know, in oil and gas, but there hasn't been as much consolidation in the services side of that.

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I see.

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It's more about the asset ownership where the consolidation is.

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Well, it it's, you know, in that world, there's still a ton of activity, M& A activity in that world, but a lot of that is on the EMP side, right?

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So the producers, you don't have as much value there.

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You're not, well, that's just, yeah, that's just never anything that we did.

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So, um, so now we got into, you know, things like building materials and industrial services, energy services, still, um, manufacturing, distribution, transportation, we did a number of trucking deals back in the day.

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Interesting.

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Um, Are some of these being acquired by like Public companies.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So sometimes the strategic acquisition, but put it making it part of the Borg.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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So we've done, I mean, we've done both, right.

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In fact, depending on the deal, right.

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And the size and you know, what the angle is, we'll usually go out to both financial buyers as well as strategic buyers.

00:15:49.259 --> 00:16:00.683
So, um, and, and depending on what the goal is, how many, Transactions, do you think you've been a part of like either directly directly or even just supporting Chris and the team early?

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Yeah, good question.

00:16:01.923 --> 00:16:08.293
Um, man, I'd say in the 30 range.

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Okay, probably.

00:16:09.063 --> 00:16:09.514
Yeah.

00:16:09.634 --> 00:16:14.124
Um, it's, you know, it's an interesting thing.

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Like you get, you know, A pretty sizable payday once in a while.

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Right.

00:16:20.433 --> 00:16:22.903
So, live frugally between big paydays, I imagine.

00:16:22.903 --> 00:16:24.283
Well, you learn that.

00:16:24.364 --> 00:16:25.323
Oh, they have nice shoes.

00:16:25.323 --> 00:16:25.953
I like those shoes.

00:16:25.953 --> 00:16:26.854
Oh, Yeah.

00:16:26.854 --> 00:16:28.464
I need new ones, actually.

00:16:28.524 --> 00:16:34.594
I guess Jill just bought me some new, uh, I ran out of brown shoe polish, so my shoes are really, they're looking like it.

00:16:34.798 --> 00:16:36.839
I'm in the market for a new pair of brown shoes.

00:16:36.839 --> 00:16:38.749
Oh, well, good, good.

00:16:39.278 --> 00:16:41.499
Um, so what did I, what did I, what was the question?

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Oh, so yeah, but I mean, that's an interesting revenue model, right?

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Like you spend all that time working, you know, you're working three, four, five, six clients, maybe at a time, once or twice or four times a year.

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Six times a year, maybe when things are hopping, things close.

00:16:58.798 --> 00:16:59.188
Yeah.

00:16:59.229 --> 00:17:02.678
And I would say on average, because every deal is different, right?

00:17:02.798 --> 00:17:09.739
Um, one deal might move and start to finish, be done in, you know, as quick as like four or five months.

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And that's flying.

00:17:10.719 --> 00:17:11.199
Yeah.

00:17:11.288 --> 00:17:14.959
Um, Cause there's a lot of due diligence to happen and all that.

00:17:14.989 --> 00:17:15.558
Well, yeah.

00:17:15.598 --> 00:17:17.078
And are you almost like an owner's rep?

00:17:17.844 --> 00:17:26.653
Uh, in, in some ways, if you were like a real estate project developer where your job is to represent the owner's interests in getting this thing done effectively.

00:17:26.673 --> 00:17:29.594
Um, yeah, you could look at it like that.

00:17:29.604 --> 00:17:30.114
Different.

00:17:30.144 --> 00:17:34.874
I mean, there's so much more negotiation and variables involved in this, I suppose.

00:17:34.923 --> 00:17:35.374
Yeah.

00:17:35.443 --> 00:17:43.173
And it is a, see, I would think of it as if I were an owner's rep, I would be, I'd see where you're coming from.

00:17:43.828 --> 00:17:48.979
I, in my head, I think of that as like buy side representation as opposed to sell side.

00:17:49.078 --> 00:17:50.019
Right, right, right.

00:17:50.068 --> 00:17:53.689
Um, so working for the buyer, going out and sourcing deals on behalf of them.

00:17:53.749 --> 00:17:54.179
Right, right.

00:17:54.179 --> 00:17:54.398
Right.

00:17:54.449 --> 00:17:54.648
Yeah.

00:17:54.689 --> 00:17:55.638
Negotiating that element.

00:17:56.644 --> 00:18:03.023
Um, but for us on the sell side, and sell side is kind of, uh, because the owner is the person that owns the business, that owns the business.

00:18:03.054 --> 00:18:03.453
Right.

00:18:03.493 --> 00:18:03.804
Right.

00:18:03.864 --> 00:18:14.044
And so we are representing them and, and it's, and it may not be for, you know, most people just think like, Oh, it's for retirement.

00:18:14.044 --> 00:18:15.183
I'm not ready to retire yet.

00:18:15.183 --> 00:18:15.663
Or I'm not ready.

00:18:15.773 --> 00:18:16.094
Right.

00:18:16.094 --> 00:18:16.213
Right.

00:18:16.253 --> 00:18:16.784
That kind of thing.

00:18:17.084 --> 00:18:23.114
A lot of it is companies that, that almost kind of outgrow the owner.

00:18:23.278 --> 00:18:23.548
Yeah.

00:18:23.598 --> 00:18:23.798
Right.

00:18:23.949 --> 00:18:27.108
And they get to, they get kind of capped out and they don't know they want to grow.

00:18:27.128 --> 00:18:32.749
They still have plenty of energy and totally, you know, Gus might not be in their highest and best use in this place.

00:18:32.778 --> 00:18:35.229
Well, and they don't know how, right.

00:18:35.229 --> 00:18:35.699
They don't know.

00:18:35.699 --> 00:18:42.719
And they don't have the capital and they're tired of, of, you know, writing it all, you know, on, on their backs, right.

00:18:42.749 --> 00:18:43.048
Yeah.

00:18:43.048 --> 00:18:43.788
Risk standpoint.

00:18:44.558 --> 00:18:51.959
Um, so in that instance, maybe it's bringing in a partner and, or maybe they're at the age where they want to retire and be done.

00:18:51.969 --> 00:18:51.999
Right.

00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:52.709
And, and.

00:18:53.429 --> 00:18:57.229
And in some cases, you know, maybe the business isn't salable, right?

00:18:57.638 --> 00:19:11.278
That's, that's a, that's a possibility to, well, and, and it's just because of, you know, because of reporting issues or financial issues or what have you, um, or it could be safety issues, right?

00:19:11.308 --> 00:19:17.528
Like, um, but, and then will you put your consultant hat basically on and try to get it saleable?

00:19:17.558 --> 00:19:18.128
Yes.

00:19:18.358 --> 00:19:20.659
So that sounds like you should get paid more for those kinds of projects.

00:19:20.868 --> 00:19:22.509
So we charge for that.

00:19:22.804 --> 00:19:23.213
Right.

00:19:23.253 --> 00:19:26.124
So, so we'll charge for the consulting side of things.

00:19:26.124 --> 00:19:27.523
And sometimes that happens, right?

00:19:27.523 --> 00:19:39.644
People will get referred in and say, Hey, I understand that you can, you know, help us kind of dissect our, our financials and, and tell us how we should be reporting kind of thing.

00:19:39.663 --> 00:19:41.913
So we'll, we'll, you know, pull our sleeves up.

00:19:41.913 --> 00:19:43.273
You've got expertise even in that.

00:19:43.473 --> 00:19:44.223
Yeah, for sure.

00:19:44.223 --> 00:19:44.784
Because that's.

00:19:45.013 --> 00:19:48.284
Kind of traditionally how we've managed each process, right?

00:19:48.334 --> 00:19:52.374
Like, um, you know, it's very consultative in nature.

00:19:52.384 --> 00:19:57.054
So we're, we're patient, um, we're patient folks.

00:19:57.134 --> 00:19:59.963
We want to get it done, but we want to get it done the right way.

00:19:59.963 --> 00:20:13.163
Like, you know, the old adage of you only have, you know, One, what is it, the, the, your, uh, you only have one shot, one shot at a first, um, at the first impression.

00:20:13.163 --> 00:20:13.594
Oh yeah.

00:20:13.703 --> 00:20:13.834
Yeah.

00:20:13.834 --> 00:20:14.074
Yeah.

00:20:14.084 --> 00:20:14.574
Holy cow.

00:20:14.574 --> 00:20:15.584
I almost got that out.

00:20:15.763 --> 00:20:16.144
Yeah.

00:20:16.193 --> 00:20:29.983
Well, and what I'm thinking to myself here is if, if you can identify a quarter million dollars of expense savings that this company really should do, and you can start making progress toward that before you go talk to a suitor.

00:20:30.703 --> 00:20:33.054
Like that's a really positive seller side activity.

00:20:33.054 --> 00:20:34.834
Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:34.834 --> 00:20:38.364
And we'll do that even inside of a process.

00:20:38.384 --> 00:20:38.884
Right, right.

00:20:38.884 --> 00:20:41.433
And, and can, you know, communicate that to them.

00:20:41.463 --> 00:20:48.763
Well, and you get to be kind of a, because you've done so many service based businesses in that industry, you can kind of be an aggregator of.

00:20:49.179 --> 00:20:56.398
Smart practices and techniques and suppliers and other service providers and stuff like that.

00:20:57.028 --> 00:20:59.989
Hey, this guy's bending you over on this particular thing.

00:20:59.989 --> 00:21:02.328
Absolutely.

00:21:02.489 --> 00:21:05.459
And, and we try not to get involved too much in that.

00:21:05.659 --> 00:21:05.929
Right.

00:21:05.969 --> 00:21:07.959
Because you want to be respectful.

00:21:08.269 --> 00:21:12.618
You're looking over the operations manager's shoulder, the CFO.

00:21:12.898 --> 00:21:15.159
You want to be respectful of the relationships in place.

00:21:15.159 --> 00:21:15.398
Right.

00:21:15.398 --> 00:21:27.088
But, um, at the same point, you know, your duty is to, to help your client and, and put that stuff in front of them and it's their choice to make, but talk to me about like.

00:21:28.554 --> 00:21:44.814
From what you've seen at least, um, you know, and we talked about like private equity we talked about like family offices, strategic buyers, um, maybe there was a fourth one in there, but like talk to me about what makes sense for who.

00:21:45.844 --> 00:21:47.213
Uh, from your experience.

00:21:47.233 --> 00:21:47.544
Yeah.

00:21:47.544 --> 00:21:48.183
Good question.

00:21:48.253 --> 00:21:48.473
Yeah.

00:21:48.574 --> 00:21:51.913
It a hundred percent depends on where you're at in life.

00:21:52.054 --> 00:21:53.374
The goal, the goals of the client.

00:21:53.423 --> 00:21:53.794
You sure.

00:21:53.894 --> 00:21:54.223
Right.

00:21:54.624 --> 00:22:06.834
Um, because if, if, if somebody is say, go back to that, the previous example, like the business has outgrown the owner, but they're not ready to be done.

00:22:07.144 --> 00:22:07.413
Yeah.

00:22:07.433 --> 00:22:07.723
Right.

00:22:07.723 --> 00:22:08.044
Yeah.

00:22:08.153 --> 00:22:09.213
Um, but they need help.

00:22:09.253 --> 00:22:21.374
They need help, you know, um, financially planning wise, like strategic strategy, I'm, uh, I'm, uh, looking to hire an executive virtual assistant or a virtual executive assistant right now.

00:22:21.564 --> 00:22:23.233
Sorry to interrupt you, but.

00:22:24.284 --> 00:22:27.673
Like I've been having conversations about what do I really want to do?

00:22:28.134 --> 00:22:34.844
Well, I think what I might really want to do is like hire a better CEO for local think tank than me at some point.

00:22:35.433 --> 00:22:41.824
And then stay involved, stay in significant ownership and be podcast founder guy.

00:22:41.953 --> 00:22:42.403
Sure.

00:22:42.713 --> 00:22:43.003
Sure.

00:22:43.034 --> 00:22:43.294
Right.

00:22:43.294 --> 00:22:44.064
Like, can I do that?

00:22:44.064 --> 00:22:45.844
Is that a, is that, is that a trade off?

00:22:45.844 --> 00:22:47.074
Can I make that transition?

00:22:47.183 --> 00:22:47.644
I don't know.

00:22:47.983 --> 00:22:48.394
Yeah.

00:22:48.423 --> 00:22:49.023
Maybe not yet.

00:22:49.263 --> 00:22:50.453
And that's like, right.

00:22:50.483 --> 00:22:51.094
That's a question.

00:22:51.104 --> 00:22:54.923
But I think I could definitely hire a better CEO than me if I'm being real.

00:22:54.943 --> 00:23:03.463
Well, I don't know, I can't comment on that, but you know, I think you've done pretty well so far.

00:23:03.513 --> 00:23:04.463
Yeah, I've enjoyed it.

00:23:04.473 --> 00:23:08.733
You know, and I'm not, I don't suck at it, you know, I'm still the best one for the job that I've found.

00:23:08.763 --> 00:23:09.463
Absolutely.

00:23:09.493 --> 00:23:16.753
Plus I can't afford a CEO, like sacrifice all of my income and then double that to hire a proper CEO.

00:23:16.763 --> 00:23:18.993
Well, and then it's, What does it do for you?

00:23:19.003 --> 00:23:23.884
Like, what's, what's the goal of loco think tank and can you get it there?

00:23:24.074 --> 00:23:27.253
Yeah, do you need to bring somebody else in to help you get it there?

00:23:27.263 --> 00:23:29.334
I think that's the question We're trying to figure out right now.

00:23:29.403 --> 00:23:29.564
Yeah.

00:23:29.564 --> 00:23:34.574
Yeah, for sure So do you have some of that kind of anyway to get back to you and your answer to that question?

00:23:35.703 --> 00:23:37.554
Like it's what do they really want?

00:23:37.584 --> 00:23:57.138
Yeah, so further are they capable of for the For the owner that it's, uh, the businesses kind of outgrown them, or they want to, they have a vision of, of moving into a certain area or expanding into another, like, you know, adding, adding a product mix or, you know, something else, whatever that is.

00:23:57.179 --> 00:24:05.558
Um, Um, but they don't, yeah, but they don't have the means be it, you know, they don't have the team to do that.

00:24:05.598 --> 00:24:06.759
They don't have the money to do it.

00:24:06.769 --> 00:24:08.378
They don't want to take the risk personally.

00:24:08.848 --> 00:24:13.648
Um, at that point then you would bring in a partner to do that.

00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:14.128
Right.

00:24:14.219 --> 00:24:19.588
And, and that person would have, and that would allow in that new space, potentially things like that.

00:24:19.588 --> 00:24:20.148
Exactly.

00:24:20.179 --> 00:24:21.818
And so, but that's not.

00:24:21.999 --> 00:24:23.278
That's not everybody out.

00:24:23.288 --> 00:24:24.868
That's not just a complicated transaction.

00:24:24.868 --> 00:24:27.939
It's not just any, you're marrying somebody, right.

00:24:27.989 --> 00:24:32.959
And so then, um, then it's really important to find the right partner.

00:24:33.608 --> 00:24:41.409
And this is something that gets lost often because more often than not, folks get so caught up in the numbers, right?

00:24:41.429 --> 00:24:44.368
Like the valuation, what's my, what's the number going to be?

00:24:45.088 --> 00:24:47.209
They're going to come in and value it at X.

00:24:47.209 --> 00:24:51.108
And well, I had it at X plus whatever.

00:24:51.528 --> 00:24:56.838
Um, And, and they may not be happy with it, but they have to see the bigger picture.

00:24:56.959 --> 00:24:57.328
Right.

00:24:57.358 --> 00:25:13.528
And so there's a trade off, but it allows there's a better culture fit and all those 85 or 150 or 300 employees stick around and things go better and they just like, People effectively give birth to these organizations, right?

00:25:13.689 --> 00:25:19.298
Like, when they get sold to the person that abuses their child, they hate it.

00:25:19.308 --> 00:25:21.528
Well, yeah, and there are plenty of those stories.

00:25:21.538 --> 00:25:23.528
It's worth a lot of money not to have that happen.

00:25:23.528 --> 00:25:24.358
Right, right.

00:25:24.659 --> 00:25:26.159
There are plenty of those stories.

00:25:26.368 --> 00:25:29.348
Um, and, and, and it's unfortunate, right?

00:25:29.388 --> 00:25:46.489
I mean, we've certainly seen it and you hear about it all the time and it gives, you know, private equity specifically a bad name, but, um, and, and rightfully so, honestly, but, um, but there are good ones out there too, right?

00:25:46.959 --> 00:25:51.699
And so it's, it's knowing those and knowing, you know, those, I would say that's true.

00:25:51.699 --> 00:25:55.209
A lot of like a lot of private equity people are in it for the right reasons.

00:25:55.614 --> 00:25:56.044
Sure.

00:25:56.304 --> 00:26:05.824
And then there's, like, I think, kind of like the mortgage industry from back in the day, there's a lot of things that encourage bad behavior.

00:26:05.963 --> 00:26:06.753
Yeah, absolutely.

00:26:06.903 --> 00:26:14.384
You know, and in the private equity realm, it's kind of not, not any different, you know, if something's just not growing fast enough, well, you're just going to have to starve it off then.

00:26:15.173 --> 00:26:15.624
You know?

00:26:15.693 --> 00:26:16.023
Right.

00:26:16.243 --> 00:26:16.564
Right.

00:26:16.614 --> 00:26:17.743
I've given them any more food.

00:26:17.814 --> 00:26:18.153
Yeah.

00:26:18.463 --> 00:26:21.723
So, um, so that situation is different.

00:26:21.763 --> 00:26:23.804
That would take us down one path, right?

00:26:24.114 --> 00:26:37.763
A strategic acquirer going back to your, your question, a strategic acquirer is, um, is kind of more appropriate for an exiting owner.

00:26:38.064 --> 00:26:40.973
Somebody that wants to really, just wants to sell.

00:26:42.058 --> 00:26:47.028
Maybe wants to, maybe wants to stick around inside the organization.

00:26:47.509 --> 00:26:52.538
Um, but, but that's usually your, your a hundred percent deal, right?

00:26:53.199 --> 00:26:57.098
I'm going to sell a hundred percent of the company and that's going to go to strategic acquire.

00:26:57.419 --> 00:27:11.354
Um, Oftentimes on the financial side of things, at least with private equity, it's not a hundred percent sale, but it depends on the type of transaction.

00:27:11.824 --> 00:27:12.134
Right?

00:27:12.134 --> 00:27:18.844
So if it's a platform investment for them, um, chances are they're going to buy.

00:27:19.169 --> 00:27:24.088
Somewhere between 80, you know, 70, 80 percent of the company.

00:27:24.118 --> 00:27:30.878
So that the owner is still invested going to retain, you know, um, your slower buyout kind of quote unquote role, right.

00:27:30.878 --> 00:27:35.469
You know, that remaining chunk of equity, because then it's, it's about the growth going forward.

00:27:35.469 --> 00:27:35.739
Yep.

00:27:36.019 --> 00:27:45.949
Um, now when they, which is usually, hopefully good for both sides, cause the owner gets a little more kicker and hopefully they're more invested in the success of the transition.

00:27:45.949 --> 00:27:46.148
Right.

00:27:46.334 --> 00:27:46.713
Right.

00:27:46.963 --> 00:27:48.933
That's how it's, that's how it's supposed to go.

00:27:48.953 --> 00:27:49.193
Right.

00:27:49.534 --> 00:27:49.784
Right.

00:27:49.844 --> 00:28:01.409
And then, and then you have others that, so say they acquire a platform company and they acquired at 80%, the selling, the selling owner, you know, retains 20%.

00:28:01.548 --> 00:28:04.148
And then they go and they make another acquisition.

00:28:04.148 --> 00:28:05.338
That's half its size.

00:28:05.358 --> 00:28:07.519
And they call that an add on, right?

00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:08.648
So, or bolt on.

00:28:08.699 --> 00:28:09.318
Oh, right.

00:28:09.318 --> 00:28:15.348
Because the multiplier increases the more you, well, the bigger, the bigger you get the multiplier, the multiples go up.

00:28:15.368 --> 00:28:15.608
Right.

00:28:15.608 --> 00:28:15.868
Right.

00:28:15.878 --> 00:28:22.199
So, um, so, but the add ons now usually do sell a hundred percent.

00:28:22.588 --> 00:28:22.818
Usually.

00:28:22.858 --> 00:28:23.199
Okay.

00:28:23.219 --> 00:28:23.929
Not always.

00:28:23.949 --> 00:28:27.769
And sometimes they have the opportunity to retain some role, some equity.

00:28:27.798 --> 00:28:28.179
Right.

00:28:28.689 --> 00:28:31.009
But more often than not, if they're smaller.

00:28:32.253 --> 00:28:42.574
Well, the numbers are smaller, so if they're smaller, then it's, it's a smaller piece of the bigger pie, but, um, they have no hand anyway, basically.

00:28:42.644 --> 00:28:43.003
Yeah.

00:28:43.064 --> 00:28:54.394
And, um, but, but oftentimes an add on, you know, Looks like a hundred percent sale for that type of buyer, but that's where you get into the differences of size, right?

00:28:54.394 --> 00:29:05.884
Like that might be a deal that's say less than 10 million, and then you get deals that are, you know, 20 and higher, you know, might be your, Platform opportunities.

00:29:05.888 --> 00:29:06.088
Mm-Hmm.

00:29:06.169 --> 00:29:07.473
for the private equity folks.

00:29:07.503 --> 00:29:07.683
Mm-Hmm.

00:29:07.923 --> 00:29:15.314
So, um, now, and there's probably private equity firms that specialize in that, you know, 10 to 25 kind of Absolutely.

00:29:15.314 --> 00:29:16.183
Revenue range.

00:29:16.183 --> 00:29:22.604
And their, their goal is really to grow'em a little bit, get the multiplier up a little bit more, and then aggregate with something else.

00:29:22.663 --> 00:29:22.933
Right.

00:29:23.114 --> 00:29:23.443
Right.

00:29:23.594 --> 00:29:24.614
Be that helping hand.

00:29:25.898 --> 00:29:27.459
We're talking about family offices.

00:29:27.509 --> 00:29:27.838
Yeah.

00:29:27.949 --> 00:29:35.538
So family offices are, are typically, um, made up, they're backed by family money, right?

00:29:35.568 --> 00:29:41.648
Like so a wealthy family, um, and then it's, that money is managed by rather than invest in wall street.

00:29:41.709 --> 00:29:42.669
They, yeah, exactly.

00:29:42.669 --> 00:29:42.949
Bye.

00:29:43.368 --> 00:29:44.439
Operating businesses.

00:29:44.449 --> 00:29:45.538
Right, exactly.

00:29:45.618 --> 00:29:53.308
And so they, they build a team and they do that now they don't, they traditionally hold those investments longer, right?

00:29:53.308 --> 00:29:59.138
Because they, they're not looking for the quick turn and leverage transactions and stuff like the private equity.

00:29:59.159 --> 00:29:59.969
What they want is.

00:30:00.628 --> 00:30:09.118
A way to turn all this fabulous wealth into real income instead of just having all our wealth at 5 percent in the CD.

00:30:09.159 --> 00:30:10.199
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:30:10.269 --> 00:30:14.419
Um, and try to build the expertise then to really.

00:30:15.554 --> 00:30:22.503
Do they, like, typically do they do, how much of the back office kind of stuff do they do?

00:30:22.513 --> 00:30:28.753
Do they, like, do they still have like a president and a GM at these kind of middle market firms and stuff?

00:30:28.784 --> 00:30:34.804
But the, they're, that person isn't necessarily a equity player or maybe they got a little bit still or how's that?

00:30:34.804 --> 00:30:35.213
Yeah.

00:30:35.304 --> 00:30:36.804
So you mean on the buy side?

00:30:36.884 --> 00:30:37.604
Yeah.

00:30:37.614 --> 00:30:41.713
Like if I'm a family office, like am I acquiring a hundred percent of almost everything?

00:30:41.713 --> 00:30:45.949
Or is, in some cases, the founder is still, you know, Yeah.

00:30:46.009 --> 00:30:50.148
Often, oftentimes a family office will acquire a hundred percent.

00:30:50.239 --> 00:30:50.709
Yeah.

00:30:50.808 --> 00:30:52.318
Often, not always.

00:30:52.328 --> 00:30:58.818
So, so the caveat to all of this stuff is none of it is always right.

00:30:58.818 --> 00:31:01.229
Um, every single deal is different.

00:31:01.298 --> 00:31:02.679
Every buyer is different.

00:31:02.719 --> 00:31:04.108
Every, so there's.

00:31:05.219 --> 00:31:06.669
That happens, right?

00:31:06.669 --> 00:31:13.368
But I would say overwhelmingly a family office is going to acquire a hundred percent private equity as a platform.

00:31:13.398 --> 00:31:22.259
It's going to acquire a portion and consider it a, what's called a majority recap and, um, and then do add ons, and then a strategic acquisition.

00:31:22.463 --> 00:31:22.743
Yeah.

00:31:22.743 --> 00:31:26.314
Strategic acquire is going to do more often than not a hundred percent.

00:31:26.574 --> 00:31:35.003
They may fund some in company stock if it's public or, or even do some, uh, merge type activity, right?

00:31:35.003 --> 00:31:38.513
Like here, here's this much cash and here's a little bit of our stock.

00:31:38.523 --> 00:31:39.044
Cause we are.

00:31:40.128 --> 00:31:44.368
publicly traded even, um, just to keep it interesting.

00:31:44.999 --> 00:31:49.578
Um, what would be the main motivations for someone to sell to a family office?

00:31:49.578 --> 00:31:58.834
It would be, it would be similar to, uh, a strategic Except like for a, for an exit, right?

00:31:58.854 --> 00:31:59.784
A complete exit.

00:32:00.183 --> 00:32:04.864
Um, except it may be a better fit.

00:32:04.943 --> 00:32:11.493
So as an exiting owner, you might get a, uh, an offer from.

00:32:11.898 --> 00:32:14.898
You know, X, y, z company a a big player right.

00:32:14.898 --> 00:32:16.189
In your given industry.

00:32:16.699 --> 00:32:21.324
Um, but a family office might come in, but you don't like the, you don't like the bigger guys?

00:32:21.324 --> 00:32:21.723
I hate that fucking guy.

00:32:21.743 --> 00:32:23.243
You don't like the Yeah, exactly right.

00:32:23.304 --> 00:32:28.249
You don't like, or maybe there's not as much value to like a vertical integration kind of thing.

00:32:28.308 --> 00:32:34.429
Well, for a strategic acquirer, and, and they, it works well as a standalone be, but that's for them to decide.

00:32:34.578 --> 00:32:35.058
Right.

00:32:35.179 --> 00:32:35.628
Gotcha.

00:32:35.749 --> 00:32:37.189
But, but as an exiting owner.

00:32:37.913 --> 00:32:54.683
Keep in mind, you've built this company from scratch and, and you want to, you want to set your employees, like oftentimes like family and you've been talking shit about this and yeah, by the way, we just sold to him.

00:32:56.304 --> 00:32:57.423
So, so there's that.

00:32:57.433 --> 00:33:01.074
So that's a, that's one angle that a family office comes into play.

00:33:01.413 --> 00:33:05.263
Another one is, um, Look, I've got a company.

00:33:05.304 --> 00:33:08.064
I know that I just can't, I'm just done, right?

00:33:08.094 --> 00:33:09.273
I love the business.

00:33:09.534 --> 00:33:12.814
I want to stick around, but I'm just done with all the headache.

00:33:12.814 --> 00:33:13.973
I'm done with the HR.

00:33:13.983 --> 00:33:14.794
I'm done with accounting.

00:33:14.794 --> 00:33:17.104
I'm done with having all my wealth, like at risk.

00:33:17.114 --> 00:33:18.263
I'm done with the risk.

00:33:18.523 --> 00:33:22.973
I'm, I want to put some money in the bank, but I want to keep working and I'll still do it.

00:33:23.294 --> 00:33:27.314
That could be a family, that could be private equity option or family office options.

00:33:27.324 --> 00:33:31.034
Especially for that operator that turned into an entrepreneur that turned into a.

00:33:31.364 --> 00:33:33.054
Owner of a pretty big business.

00:33:33.074 --> 00:33:33.433
Right.

00:33:33.473 --> 00:33:35.614
And he's like, I just really kind of want to work.

00:33:35.683 --> 00:33:36.013
Right.

00:33:36.134 --> 00:33:36.453
Yeah.

00:33:36.453 --> 00:33:40.763
At some point, you know, make sure my grandkids is college is covered.

00:33:40.773 --> 00:33:41.334
Yeah.

00:33:41.963 --> 00:33:44.624
At some point being an employee sounds pretty good.

00:33:44.993 --> 00:33:53.673
That'd be in the, um, but it could also be a really good op opportunity for the, for the employees, right.

00:33:53.673 --> 00:33:55.814
Growth opportunity and, and you're, you're, you're, you're.

00:33:56.044 --> 00:33:58.324
Um, and you have a better feeling about them.

00:33:58.334 --> 00:34:00.544
They're not going to flip it five years from now.

00:34:00.564 --> 00:34:01.003
Right, right.

00:34:01.023 --> 00:34:01.243
Right.

00:34:01.243 --> 00:34:02.114
Like private equity.

00:34:02.124 --> 00:34:05.753
Well, they could even potentially have a partial employee stock ownership thing.

00:34:05.973 --> 00:34:06.304
Sure.

00:34:06.334 --> 00:34:13.614
Like where the family office is obviously in control, but there's some upside for some of those key employees that have been around for a while and whatever.

00:34:13.744 --> 00:34:14.173
Yeah.

00:34:14.173 --> 00:34:23.623
And I would say there's, there are, um, in most deals, um, and depending on size a little bit, but in most deals, there are management.

00:34:23.958 --> 00:34:30.289
Incentive options like pools management and sample that gets structured into the, to the deal anyway.

00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:40.009
So, um, they want to make sure that their key employees are taken care of, but, um, on the family office thing too, because they, they're not looking to flip it, right.

00:34:40.009 --> 00:34:41.809
They're going to, they're going to hold it.

00:34:42.139 --> 00:34:44.139
Chances are for longer than private equity.

00:34:44.139 --> 00:34:52.168
And, but they don't want to go to big strategic, you know, big, bad competitor down the road.

00:34:52.179 --> 00:34:54.528
So that, that could be another reason.

00:34:55.148 --> 00:34:55.559
Interesting.

00:34:55.588 --> 00:34:55.768
Yeah.

00:34:56.278 --> 00:35:00.548
Um, can we jump in the short term time machine?

00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:01.088
Yeah.

00:35:01.579 --> 00:35:03.650
Uh, it's such an interesting industry and business.

00:35:03.650 --> 00:35:11.134
And I think, uh, like going to like where you were at, what place in life, when you first started working at Citadel.

00:35:12.483 --> 00:35:16.764
Um, and like a little bit of that journey back up to where, where you are now.

00:35:16.934 --> 00:35:17.463
Sure.

00:35:17.563 --> 00:35:23.364
Um, so I'll, I'll go back to kind of coming out of school.

00:35:23.393 --> 00:35:23.744
Right.

00:35:23.744 --> 00:35:27.744
So I graduated from CSU in December of a one.

00:35:27.974 --> 00:35:28.344
Okay.

00:35:28.494 --> 00:35:31.474
Um, right after nine 11, right.

00:35:31.554 --> 00:35:32.713
It was a finance major.

00:35:33.168 --> 00:35:36.768
Um, the job market was less than ideal.

00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:43.458
So I took a job that, you know, working for a finance company, doing shitty loans, basically.

00:35:44.088 --> 00:35:47.528
And I didn't know, I didn't know, yeah, more or less, right.

00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:58.228
Um, so I went to work for a finance company, finance company doing, doing, um, personal consumer loans, mortgages, you name it.

00:35:58.579 --> 00:36:01.199
And, and it just didn't feel right to me.

00:36:01.338 --> 00:36:01.619
Right.

00:36:01.719 --> 00:36:19.278
Um, at the time now I didn't know any better, unfortunately, at the time when, when I was in school and as a finance major, Lending was never part of the curriculum and as big of a, as big of a deal as actually make any money.

00:36:19.289 --> 00:36:19.599
Right.

00:36:19.778 --> 00:36:20.148
Yeah.

00:36:20.259 --> 00:36:20.438
Yeah.

00:36:20.438 --> 00:36:20.778
Actually.

00:36:20.898 --> 00:36:23.088
But there was, there was no discussion around it.

00:36:23.369 --> 00:36:23.568
Right.

00:36:23.568 --> 00:36:23.938
So.

00:36:24.168 --> 00:36:24.708
Yeah.

00:36:24.708 --> 00:36:25.478
I remember that too.

00:36:25.478 --> 00:36:29.329
There wasn't really like, you know, what debt was in a financial statement kind of, that's about it.

00:36:29.378 --> 00:36:29.809
That's it.

00:36:29.838 --> 00:36:30.768
But nothing else.

00:36:30.798 --> 00:36:33.969
Nothing about cashflow, debt service, even none of that stuff.

00:36:34.228 --> 00:36:34.498
No, no, no, no.

00:36:34.498 --> 00:36:34.708
Huh.

00:36:34.778 --> 00:36:35.099
Fascinating.

00:36:35.108 --> 00:36:36.489
So, um.

00:36:36.489 --> 00:36:36.528
Yeah.

00:36:36.528 --> 00:36:36.548
Absolutely.

00:36:37.838 --> 00:36:53.608
So I was down, this was in Denver, I moved down there with a, a buddy of mine, my business partner now, Matt, um, he had a place, um, we lived together in college and lived together after and so I moved down there for all of about six months, lived downtown and hated my job and moved back to Fort Collins.

00:36:53.608 --> 00:37:03.903
I had a buddy that said, Hey, you should go work with this guy, um, in the mortgage industry and what you're doing is, you know, You know, that doesn't sound good.

00:37:05.304 --> 00:37:09.344
So I said, all right, so I moved back and went to work, um, in the mortgage world.

00:37:09.833 --> 00:37:13.724
Um, and this was in whatever, oh, two, right.

00:37:14.253 --> 00:37:14.844
The heyday.

00:37:15.123 --> 00:37:15.623
Yeah.

00:37:15.753 --> 00:37:17.134
And some of the heydays.

00:37:17.134 --> 00:37:17.523
Yeah.

00:37:17.744 --> 00:37:18.653
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:37:18.653 --> 00:37:19.764
It's certainly the start of it.

00:37:20.164 --> 00:37:27.293
Um, and, uh, I realized pretty quickly, I, I was only on the broker side for about two years.

00:37:27.423 --> 00:37:30.753
Um, I realized pretty quickly that I am not a B2C guy.

00:37:31.023 --> 00:37:31.373
Right.

00:37:31.414 --> 00:37:40.849
Right, so I just cannot sit across Dealing with a hundred people a year, or three hundred people a year, like And sit across from Joe and Susie, homeowner, like, you need to do this.

00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:43.079
Like, that's just not me, right?

00:37:43.688 --> 00:37:44.409
You don't want to do it.

00:37:44.469 --> 00:37:44.989
That's fine.

00:37:44.989 --> 00:37:47.829
I'm not going to convince you.

00:37:47.938 --> 00:37:48.179
Right.

00:37:48.199 --> 00:38:00.119
So, um, no, so I realized pretty quick, I, I started, um, uh, with a, a separate buddy of mine, Mortgage brokerage.

00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:00.528
Okay.

00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:02.389
Um, and did that for a while.

00:38:02.398 --> 00:38:09.949
He still runs it actually has done really well, but, um, but, uh, I got out and I'd moved to the wholesale side.

00:38:09.949 --> 00:38:13.108
So then I was a wholesaler for the next, what was it?

00:38:13.108 --> 00:38:13.659
Five, six, six years.

00:38:13.659 --> 00:38:18.099
So you're like sourcing mortgages for these other companies that like consolidate them then?

00:38:18.099 --> 00:38:20.938
I work for a couple of big banks.

00:38:20.938 --> 00:38:24.844
Um, two specifically that were, you know, separate kind of target.

00:38:24.844 --> 00:38:28.039
Target one was one was in the HSBC affiliate.

00:38:28.478 --> 00:38:30.378
Um, yeah, and one was American Homework.

00:38:30.389 --> 00:38:31.489
That's an English one, right?

00:38:31.739 --> 00:38:33.829
Um, Or UK, whatever.

00:38:33.838 --> 00:38:38.838
They were, yeah, they were based in, No, it was, One of the banks I worked for, yeah.

00:38:39.059 --> 00:38:40.128
They were based in Hong Kong.

00:38:40.579 --> 00:38:41.329
Oh, is that right?

00:38:41.329 --> 00:38:41.688
Okay.

00:38:41.869 --> 00:38:42.398
All right.

00:38:42.829 --> 00:38:44.018
Well, they're kind of pretty sure over there.

00:38:44.018 --> 00:38:49.778
Anyway, uh, Hong Kong is like a weird British Asian conglomeration anyway.

00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:50.398
Yeah.

00:38:50.398 --> 00:38:51.259
Global anyway.

00:38:51.628 --> 00:39:00.949
Um, so, um, I was a wholesaler for, uh, You know, five, six years, um, until the mortgage, mortgage market crash in oh seven, right.

00:39:01.369 --> 00:39:02.909
Before the stock market crash.

00:39:02.978 --> 00:39:03.798
Right, right.

00:39:03.849 --> 00:39:14.228
Um, and then, so then I got out in late oh seven and went to work with a couple of kind of former clients of mine that own mortgage companies here.

00:39:14.688 --> 00:39:14.949
Right.

00:39:14.989 --> 00:39:27.849
And we were trying to source debt project financing for various, you know, projects, whatever, domestically and a little bit like my, well, I was my bear capital advisors with my first business.

00:39:27.849 --> 00:39:30.509
And it was like, Hey, I get 1 percent if I find you some money.

00:39:30.518 --> 00:39:30.798
Right.

00:39:30.809 --> 00:39:31.608
How's that exactly.

00:39:31.849 --> 00:39:32.208
Exactly.

00:39:32.509 --> 00:39:33.949
Which was not nearly enough margin.

00:39:34.088 --> 00:39:35.264
Well, um, but.

00:39:35.574 --> 00:39:37.804
For just a loan, you know, for a bank loan.

00:39:37.954 --> 00:39:38.373
Sure.

00:39:38.474 --> 00:39:38.923
Yeah.

00:39:38.934 --> 00:39:39.344
It's pretty good.

00:39:39.384 --> 00:39:39.733
Yeah.

00:39:39.804 --> 00:39:41.393
And if the loan was big enough, right.

00:39:42.083 --> 00:39:42.333
Yeah.

00:39:42.463 --> 00:39:44.983
Um, but a million dollar loan, you know, that's 10 grand.

00:39:44.983 --> 00:39:45.974
That can be in a life for a while.

00:39:45.994 --> 00:39:46.523
For sure.

00:39:46.873 --> 00:39:48.853
So, um, okay.

00:39:48.853 --> 00:39:56.623
So we did that, but we were too honestly naive at that point to know that the credit markets were totally dry.

00:39:56.623 --> 00:39:59.764
Like this is a way, the whole world had gone.

00:39:59.773 --> 00:40:03.094
You're taking all these projects and finding people money and finding them no money.

00:40:03.094 --> 00:40:03.264
Yeah.

00:40:03.503 --> 00:40:08.213
Yeah, so, but that's when I met Chris, uh, Frevert, who was the founder of Citadel.

00:40:08.603 --> 00:40:14.684
And so, um, we just stayed in touch for the next three years, um, two and a half years.

00:40:14.954 --> 00:40:17.474
And we'd meet, you know, kind of quarterly, whatever.

00:40:17.923 --> 00:40:19.713
Like, that's, how did you meet him?

00:40:19.724 --> 00:40:21.228
Like, what was the circumstance?

00:40:21.228 --> 00:40:30.889
Yeah, we had a deal that was referred to us, um, that we were trying to source financing for, um, or an equity injection.

00:40:30.898 --> 00:40:31.789
Somebody that, yeah.

00:40:31.789 --> 00:40:35.039
And if they could find some loan capital, it would really help put this deal together almost.

00:40:35.548 --> 00:40:37.768
And they were looking for, for equity at the time.

00:40:37.798 --> 00:40:40.528
And it was effectively like a private placement type of situation.

00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:49.018
It wasn't private placement, but, um, so, but, but that's when through it, through another referral contact, right.

00:40:49.108 --> 00:40:50.798
I got introduced to Chris.

00:40:50.929 --> 00:40:53.759
We referred the deal to Citadel at the time.

00:40:54.179 --> 00:40:56.239
So this is back in Oh, eight.

00:40:56.318 --> 00:40:56.778
Oh, I see.

00:40:56.818 --> 00:41:00.708
Um, and so that's, then the relationship started with him.

00:41:00.708 --> 00:41:05.528
And so then we would meet, you know, quarterly, whatever, just for breakfast or lunch kind of.

00:41:05.708 --> 00:41:08.358
And just cause he thought you were smart or what?

00:41:08.628 --> 00:41:15.929
Like, that's what I'm, I guess, I'm being Jordan Peterson on you now, like, Why would he care, why would he give one half shit about you in that time?

00:41:15.929 --> 00:41:17.619
Good question, good question.

00:41:17.969 --> 00:41:19.509
You'll have to ask him, I don't know.

00:41:19.989 --> 00:41:21.878
That's a great question, I've never thought about that before.

00:41:22.759 --> 00:41:24.688
Um, no, I, you know.

00:41:24.759 --> 00:41:30.648
And I've had people take an interest in me and build friendships and stuff too, that were, you know, a generation above me typically or whatever.

00:41:30.648 --> 00:41:30.798
Yeah.

00:41:30.958 --> 00:41:31.559
Yeah, yeah.

00:41:32.208 --> 00:41:33.278
You know, I don't know.

00:41:33.369 --> 00:41:34.289
It was good.

00:41:34.318 --> 00:41:36.309
I mean, I'm thankful that he did.

00:41:36.338 --> 00:41:37.588
You know, he's a nice guy.

00:41:37.588 --> 00:41:39.018
It was a peer thing.

00:41:39.108 --> 00:41:39.509
Yeah.

00:41:39.528 --> 00:41:41.548
Mentor thing a little bit, but more peer.

00:41:41.579 --> 00:41:42.139
For sure.

00:41:42.219 --> 00:41:52.159
And, and it was, you know, I think I had expressed to him that, like, look, I, Always wanted to know about the business and yeah, okay.

00:41:52.228 --> 00:41:59.398
Um, I, in fact, when I was in college, I remember thinking that I wanted to be an investment banker, but I didn't really know what that meant, right?

00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:03.188
Like, are we like syndicating loans?

00:42:03.188 --> 00:42:05.079
Are we underwriting stuff for wall street?

00:42:05.079 --> 00:42:05.608
Are we right?

00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:08.039
And take companies public, right?

00:42:08.088 --> 00:42:08.929
Yeah, all that.

00:42:09.018 --> 00:42:09.659
What do they do?

00:42:10.054 --> 00:42:12.023
And just didn't know, right?

00:42:12.023 --> 00:42:12.744
Didn't have any idea.

00:42:12.773 --> 00:42:15.153
And that's why there are so many different areas of it.

00:42:15.164 --> 00:42:17.483
But, um, so I don't know.

00:42:17.514 --> 00:42:18.864
I'm, I'm thankful that he did.

00:42:19.313 --> 00:42:20.963
Um, good question.

00:42:20.963 --> 00:42:23.143
And so, anyway, we, we stayed in touch.

00:42:23.233 --> 00:42:25.574
And then, um, he said, Well, if.

00:42:25.858 --> 00:42:27.594
You know, if you want to join, it's just thing you're doing.

00:42:27.594 --> 00:42:28.193
It doesn't work out.

00:42:28.253 --> 00:42:28.978
You wanna join Citadel?

00:42:28.978 --> 00:42:31.068
Like, I'm, you know, let me know.

00:42:31.068 --> 00:42:35.259
And I said, well thanks, you know, I'm not there yet and whatever.

00:42:35.259 --> 00:42:43.639
And then, um, uh, so then, uh, we had done this, this, um, finance thing with my other two buddies.

00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:44.809
Um.

00:42:45.204 --> 00:42:46.974
And, and nothing went anywhere.

00:42:47.034 --> 00:42:48.414
So we did it for a year and a half.

00:42:48.474 --> 00:42:49.463
Didn't close a deal.

00:42:49.574 --> 00:42:50.804
Pissed her a ton of money.

00:42:51.224 --> 00:42:52.804
It was, it was brutal.

00:42:52.853 --> 00:42:53.063
Right.

00:42:53.353 --> 00:43:05.114
And, um, and I remember I was having lunch with my dad at the pickle barrel and we were sitting on the patio and he's like, Aaron, what are you going to do for work?

00:43:05.164 --> 00:43:07.523
Like you can't keep doing this, right?

00:43:07.523 --> 00:43:08.409
I'm like, well.

00:43:08.918 --> 00:43:09.429
You know, I don't know.

00:43:09.438 --> 00:43:11.199
He's like, well, what do you have money like?

00:43:11.208 --> 00:43:12.219
Where did you have money?

00:43:12.318 --> 00:43:14.719
I had built it up from my wholesale days.

00:43:14.809 --> 00:43:15.518
Oh, right.

00:43:15.528 --> 00:43:17.208
Cause yeah, you were crushing it back then.

00:43:17.298 --> 00:43:17.559
Yeah.

00:43:18.099 --> 00:43:23.829
So, um, so your wife that you married while you had this big pile of money, we weren't married.

00:43:23.858 --> 00:43:25.239
Oh, that's the other thing.

00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:25.639
Okay.

00:43:25.708 --> 00:43:27.208
Um, yeah, we'll get into that.

00:43:27.208 --> 00:43:28.849
Broke ass days before you got married.

00:43:28.858 --> 00:43:29.068
Yeah.

00:43:29.068 --> 00:43:29.338
Yeah.

00:43:30.088 --> 00:43:35.018
So, um, but we were close at this point, Sarah and I.

00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:37.739
But she's increasingly, this was your father or your father in law?

00:43:38.369 --> 00:43:39.869
Yeah, yeah, my father.

00:43:40.619 --> 00:43:41.728
Um, anyway.

00:43:42.219 --> 00:43:43.978
And, uh, um.

00:43:43.978 --> 00:43:45.139
So he could have called you out.

00:43:45.219 --> 00:43:46.329
My dad did that with me.

00:43:46.329 --> 00:43:49.568
I was into him for like 55 grand on my food truck.

00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:50.688
Oh, sure.

00:43:51.028 --> 00:43:52.088
My mobile food business.

00:43:52.128 --> 00:43:55.059
And he's like, I don't think I'm in for any more.

00:43:55.668 --> 00:43:56.079
Yeah.

00:43:56.088 --> 00:43:56.498
Fair.

00:43:56.509 --> 00:43:58.608
Your business isn't worth 60, 000.

00:43:58.608 --> 00:43:58.869
Yeah.

00:43:58.949 --> 00:44:02.139
Like that trailer's worth 20 and I don't know how you're going to pay it back.

00:44:02.188 --> 00:44:02.518
Yeah.

00:44:02.768 --> 00:44:03.148
Yeah.

00:44:03.329 --> 00:44:04.358
Tough pill to swallow.

00:44:04.409 --> 00:44:04.958
Yeah, it was.

00:44:04.978 --> 00:44:05.159
Yeah.

00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:05.588
It's brutal.

00:44:06.224 --> 00:44:08.414
But it's good to go through, I mean Oh yeah.

00:44:08.414 --> 00:44:10.273
Thankful to have support along the way, right?

00:44:10.273 --> 00:44:10.514
Oh yeah.

00:44:10.518 --> 00:44:11.083
No, for sure.

00:44:11.143 --> 00:44:13.603
I mean, I wouldn't be here right now, you know, with that.

00:44:13.603 --> 00:44:14.923
I could be food trucking still.

00:44:15.043 --> 00:44:16.514
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:16.514 --> 00:44:16.903
For sure.

00:44:16.903 --> 00:44:20.893
Divorced three times chasing carnivals around the country.

00:44:21.884 --> 00:44:22.634
Who knows?

00:44:22.634 --> 00:44:23.534
You just don't know.

00:44:23.594 --> 00:44:23.954
That's right.

00:44:23.954 --> 00:44:26.293
So, so your, so your dad calls you to the carpet?

00:44:26.324 --> 00:44:26.503
Yeah.

00:44:26.534 --> 00:44:27.824
So he said, what are you gonna do?

00:44:28.003 --> 00:44:28.333
Right?

00:44:28.333 --> 00:44:32.324
You, you need to, at some point you have to make money.

00:44:32.764 --> 00:44:35.693
And I said, well, I said, okay.

00:44:35.693 --> 00:44:37.914
Well, yeah, I mean, I, I know that.

00:44:38.054 --> 00:44:44.083
Uh, what I want is I want, I want to be in charge of kind of how much I make.

00:44:44.083 --> 00:44:44.324
Right.

00:44:44.324 --> 00:44:45.313
Like no upside.

00:44:45.443 --> 00:44:48.244
Um, I want corporate support.

00:44:48.543 --> 00:44:49.583
I want to be remote.

00:44:49.923 --> 00:44:57.014
I'm, I want to check in with corporate every now and again, but I want to make, you know, good money and, and work my own schedule.

00:44:57.014 --> 00:44:59.103
Six figures with a 20 hour work week.

00:44:59.114 --> 00:44:59.403
Yeah.

00:44:59.454 --> 00:44:59.793
Yeah.

00:44:59.898 --> 00:45:01.789
And he's like, Aaron, that doesn't exist.

00:45:02.498 --> 00:45:03.838
I was like, it does exist.

00:45:03.849 --> 00:45:06.559
Cause I lived it for the previous, like six years.

00:45:06.588 --> 00:45:08.338
I was ascribing my old job.

00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:22.498
And, um, and he said, you know what, instead of looking at it from a perspective of what you want to do, look at it from a perspective of what you're not willing to give up.

00:45:23.438 --> 00:45:25.099
And it totally flipped me.

00:45:25.873 --> 00:45:26.153
Right.

00:45:26.164 --> 00:45:31.983
So at the time I had an opportunity to go into the financial services world.

00:45:32.443 --> 00:45:36.023
And, and I didn't want to do it at the time.

00:45:36.063 --> 00:45:36.284
Right.

00:45:36.284 --> 00:45:37.284
Because I knew, right.

00:45:37.313 --> 00:45:41.844
I remembered my mortgage broker days and I'm like, I am not a B2C guy.

00:45:41.873 --> 00:45:43.574
And that world is not me.

00:45:44.074 --> 00:45:44.373
Right.

00:45:44.414 --> 00:45:47.193
But, um, but he said.

00:45:47.469 --> 00:45:50.579
Look at it from what, from a perspective of what you're not willing to give up.

00:45:50.648 --> 00:45:55.759
And at the time I knew that Sarah and I were going to get married, right?

00:45:55.798 --> 00:45:57.239
We weren't engaged yet.

00:45:57.768 --> 00:46:02.188
Um, and she was a teacher and she was here and her family was here.

00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:03.608
And so.

00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:05.844
I was like, well, I can't move a here move.

00:46:05.849 --> 00:46:07.458
I'm not like gonna, there's one thing you're not willing to do.

00:46:07.458 --> 00:46:10.938
I've been moved to, you know, Chicago right?

00:46:10.938 --> 00:46:11.509
Or whatever.

00:46:11.918 --> 00:46:13.509
Um, because she probably won't follow me.

00:46:13.568 --> 00:46:20.168
Oh, and by, oh, and by the way, nobody wants This is, keep in mind, this is like 2009.

00:46:21.338 --> 00:46:26.119
Nobody wants anybody with eight years of mortgage experience on the resume.

00:46:27.018 --> 00:46:31.458
Like nobody's touching mortgage people, except for other mortgage people, which sounds kind of bad.

00:46:31.539 --> 00:46:32.869
Nobody's touching mortgages.

00:46:33.248 --> 00:46:35.048
Um, but yeah, but right.

00:46:35.088 --> 00:46:36.028
No, it was gross.

00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:38.179
I mean, my resume is nasty.

00:46:38.188 --> 00:46:39.148
Lucky you weren't in jail.

00:46:39.179 --> 00:46:39.739
Oh yeah.

00:46:39.739 --> 00:46:40.298
Yeah.

00:46:41.318 --> 00:46:48.539
I'm teasing, but lucky some, some of those guys are lucky they weren't in jail, a lot, like thousands of them.

00:46:48.539 --> 00:46:50.028
Not you.

00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:50.989
Um, no.

00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:55.369
Um, but, but anyway, so I said, okay, well.

00:46:55.768 --> 00:46:59.079
I'm going to take this job in the financial services space.

00:46:59.228 --> 00:47:02.889
Uh, and so I can stay here with Sarah.

00:47:02.889 --> 00:47:04.059
We'll get engaged, whatever.

00:47:04.128 --> 00:47:04.628
Yeah.

00:47:05.309 --> 00:47:06.739
It was safe choice.

00:47:06.768 --> 00:47:07.739
It was great.

00:47:07.778 --> 00:47:08.208
Right.

00:47:08.489 --> 00:47:09.768
It allowed me to get licensed.

00:47:09.768 --> 00:47:11.418
So I have my securities license.

00:47:11.548 --> 00:47:13.108
Oh, my series seven.

00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:17.398
Oh, so this is like an Ember Jones or yeah, it was an insurance insurance.

00:47:17.478 --> 00:47:18.969
Oh, more insurance focused.

00:47:19.108 --> 00:47:24.523
Um, so, but it allowed me to get licensed and, um, yeah.

00:47:25.023 --> 00:47:28.423
And then I, I learned that business, which I'm really thankful that I did.

00:47:28.423 --> 00:47:30.693
Cause it was really helpful for me personally.

00:47:30.704 --> 00:47:31.224
It's useful.

00:47:31.253 --> 00:47:31.594
Right.

00:47:31.664 --> 00:47:36.233
Um, but I got, I was two years in and I'm like, this sucks.

00:47:36.264 --> 00:47:37.873
Like I'm not making any money.

00:47:38.213 --> 00:47:45.914
And, and I had actually gone to work for a, uh, RIA, an independent, um, advisor in.

00:47:46.514 --> 00:47:48.233
Uh, in the Boulder area.

00:47:48.353 --> 00:47:51.293
And that was referred to me by my, my wife's uncle.

00:47:51.864 --> 00:47:55.744
And, um, and he was great, like awesome.

00:47:56.173 --> 00:48:01.903
Um, he wanted somebody that was already licensed to kind of come in and be a junior, or at least that's what I was told.

00:48:02.344 --> 00:48:05.074
Um, And an awesome guy, right?

00:48:05.083 --> 00:48:12.603
Like ran a good practice, had a really good book, but he wasn't even close to retiring, like not even close when I was commuting.

00:48:13.014 --> 00:48:13.353
Right.

00:48:13.403 --> 00:48:16.063
And I was married judge kind of just got married.

00:48:16.074 --> 00:48:16.514
Right.

00:48:16.574 --> 00:48:21.483
Um, I was commuting and you have 10 years later, maybe different conversation.

00:48:21.534 --> 00:48:23.643
And keep in mind, I'm 30.

00:48:25.463 --> 00:48:29.704
One years old at this time and I'm making like 2, 500 bucks a month, right?

00:48:29.934 --> 00:48:31.653
And I'm like, holy shit.

00:48:31.744 --> 00:48:32.543
What have I done?

00:48:33.313 --> 00:48:44.264
And Finally, so then I called Chris and I was like, hey I'm like, I'm ready to jump Right.

00:48:44.273 --> 00:48:50.853
So I'm finally coming back around to my citadel start, but he said, I said, I'm ready to jump and he's like, well, that's great.

00:48:51.134 --> 00:48:55.324
Well, I got two positions and one is a managing director.

00:48:55.324 --> 00:48:57.664
You gotta eat and eat what you kill type of thing.

00:48:57.664 --> 00:48:59.704
You got to last for no less than a year.

00:49:00.134 --> 00:49:02.284
Um, I'm like, well, that's not going to work.

00:49:02.284 --> 00:49:03.003
What's the next one?

00:49:03.003 --> 00:49:04.679
Yeah.

00:49:04.909 --> 00:49:15.389
And he said, well, the other one, unfortunately is like a, it's an analyst position, but it's part time 15 hours a week, um, 15 bucks an hour.

00:49:15.938 --> 00:49:18.929
And I was going to hire an intern and I'm like, I'll take it.

00:49:18.938 --> 00:49:19.818
And he's like, what?

00:49:20.489 --> 00:49:22.389
And I said, yeah, I'll, I'll take it.

00:49:22.829 --> 00:49:25.768
And so he's like, I don't understand.

00:49:25.778 --> 00:49:30.208
I said, well, number one, I, I learned best from the bottom, right?

00:49:30.219 --> 00:49:33.789
Like from learning from the bottom of whatever I'm doing.

00:49:33.789 --> 00:49:38.668
Like I have to understand the foundation in order to continue to grow.

00:49:38.699 --> 00:49:38.969
Right.

00:49:39.518 --> 00:49:45.809
Um, so I said, yeah, if that's my, I'm not qualified for the managing director, exactly.

00:49:45.898 --> 00:49:46.909
Yeah, exactly.

00:49:46.929 --> 00:49:52.429
So, um, So I started there working 15 hours a week and 15 bucks an hour.

00:49:52.429 --> 00:49:54.469
How long before you got, uh, a raise?

00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:55.429
Yeah, yeah.

00:49:55.429 --> 00:49:58.909
So I moved to full time within like six months probably.

00:49:59.028 --> 00:49:59.228
Okay.

00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:05.548
And then, and then I had a small salary and then started participating or, you know, Chris would then pay.

00:50:05.768 --> 00:50:10.208
You know, me commissions on deals that closed and, um, and that sort of stuff.

00:50:10.208 --> 00:50:14.208
So I started making a little bit of money and then just gradually got more and more involved in the deals.

00:50:14.469 --> 00:50:23.938
Um, was doing a lot of traveling, a lot of, you know, customer facing interaction and, um, you know, You're kind of his right hand for a long time.

00:50:23.938 --> 00:50:24.438
Exactly.

00:50:24.838 --> 00:50:25.943
How long a time?

00:50:26.313 --> 00:50:30.244
Um, really till kind of 2018.

00:50:30.954 --> 00:50:35.293
So I started there in 11, May of 11 and until 18.

00:50:35.293 --> 00:50:37.164
And then we wrote it, right?

00:50:37.204 --> 00:50:41.664
Like, so keep in mind going back, it was oil field services focused.

00:50:41.893 --> 00:50:44.434
Um, and it was on this crazy run.

00:50:44.463 --> 00:50:44.773
Right.

00:50:44.773 --> 00:50:45.173
Right.

00:50:45.204 --> 00:50:49.884
That world was, um, but then the oil market crashed in, in, uh, 14, right.

00:50:50.434 --> 00:50:51.844
Midway through August of 14.

00:50:51.853 --> 00:50:52.224
Yeah.

00:50:52.568 --> 00:51:06.338
Um, and so then everything kind of stopped and, and we still had a couple of deals come in and, um, and we still closed a handful of deals like in the coming years, but it started slowing down, right?

00:51:06.338 --> 00:51:07.648
The consolidation, the service.

00:51:07.648 --> 00:51:08.539
The space in oil and gas.

00:51:08.548 --> 00:51:16.213
Well, this is the time when you and I kind of first got acquainted properly and you were, Maybe you still are doing some side hustle stuff.

00:51:16.233 --> 00:51:22.023
Like, um, I have some other stuff that I'm like some ownership interests and some companies and stuff like that.

00:51:24.014 --> 00:51:29.864
So, um, but so that stuff kind of came together while you were doing this.

00:51:30.838 --> 00:51:32.398
And I don't want to say side hustle stuff.

00:51:32.438 --> 00:51:32.708
Yeah, yeah.

00:51:32.708 --> 00:51:38.688
I'm sure it's very serious, but Yeah, no, that's, it did come together kind of at that time.

00:51:38.688 --> 00:51:38.978
Right.

00:51:39.418 --> 00:51:47.528
Um, I can touch on that, but you know, when we got into kind of 18, we all kind of went our separate ways.

00:51:47.548 --> 00:51:47.898
Right.

00:51:47.898 --> 00:52:00.509
So, um, uh Chris had retired kind of shortly thereafter, um, he moved to the East Coast, and, uh, And there wasn't really a business there to retire from if there wasn't much deal flow.

00:52:00.509 --> 00:52:03.184
Well, there wasn't any deal flow, right?

00:52:03.184 --> 00:52:03.929
Right.

00:52:03.929 --> 00:52:10.119
Um, and, and, honestly, he said, he, he was great, and he said, look, just, just take it.

00:52:10.384 --> 00:52:16.333
Just take, like, I want Citadel to go to somebody that has history with it, which would be me and Matt, right?

00:52:16.373 --> 00:52:16.713
Yeah.

00:52:16.824 --> 00:52:21.914
Um, and, um, I just want it to, to continue.

00:52:21.923 --> 00:52:23.893
Like, I don't do whatever.

00:52:23.903 --> 00:52:23.923
Yeah.

00:52:24.384 --> 00:52:27.373
And, and I didn't want to do that just to take it.

00:52:27.704 --> 00:52:28.083
Right?

00:52:28.153 --> 00:52:34.873
So I continued to, to do deals just on my own under my own LLC and I was up front with Chris.

00:52:34.873 --> 00:52:35.494
He knew about it.

00:52:36.233 --> 00:52:39.403
Um, so I continued to close deals just by myself.

00:52:39.773 --> 00:52:42.414
And then I was doing more and more consulting work also.

00:52:42.923 --> 00:52:44.253
So, and that's my entry.

00:52:44.253 --> 00:53:03.414
When you said kind of side hustle stuff, I had an opportunity with a buddy to help him, um, just kind of with, you know, You know, accounting stuff, getting his business kind of squared away, ended up selling it, um, you know, a couple of years later and, and then was part of that thing.

00:53:03.414 --> 00:53:07.153
And, and, um, you had become like a minority owner along the way or something.

00:53:07.173 --> 00:53:21.114
There was a, there was a small piece just cause I'd lent, lent the company some money and whatever, but it was very, very small and, um, but helped it kind of get to the point where then those owners ended up selling it again.

00:53:21.114 --> 00:53:28.398
And, um, And, uh, and so then, you know, that kind of got my entry into the whole consulting stuff.

00:53:28.398 --> 00:53:34.358
And, and honestly, it started with, you know, on the Citadel side, we had a client, um, in Houston.

00:53:34.358 --> 00:53:38.668
I spent a ton of time with kind of reworking and accounting stuff with their team.

00:53:39.139 --> 00:53:41.648
Um, Is there kind of a numbers nerd at your heart?

00:53:42.228 --> 00:53:43.668
Uh, I like it.

00:53:43.708 --> 00:53:44.108
Yeah.

00:53:44.108 --> 00:53:44.139
Okay.

00:53:44.148 --> 00:53:48.648
I am, if I had my druthers, I would just be.

00:53:49.713 --> 00:53:54.483
we would have like engage clients and I would be managing those processes.

00:53:54.494 --> 00:53:56.043
Cause I can do those from anywhere.

00:53:56.043 --> 00:53:57.184
I can do calls.

00:53:57.184 --> 00:53:59.764
I can, I can do the numbers thing.

00:53:59.764 --> 00:54:02.713
Like I don't, I don't want to get into the weeds of the numbers.

00:54:02.733 --> 00:54:04.264
I have to, right.

00:54:04.264 --> 00:54:04.773
You want numbers.

00:54:04.773 --> 00:54:08.304
You can trust the process, the deal flow, the.

00:54:09.114 --> 00:54:10.923
Matchmaking, ultimately.

00:54:10.983 --> 00:54:18.173
Yeah, and I really enjoy it, like, from when you make the match, right?

00:54:18.213 --> 00:54:20.494
The matchmaking, from that point on.

00:54:20.713 --> 00:54:22.364
That's my, that's my jam.

00:54:22.364 --> 00:54:24.324
Yeah, kicking it to the finish line.

00:54:24.373 --> 00:54:25.173
Yeah, yeah.

00:54:25.434 --> 00:54:31.494
And so Chris, like, re invited you to come back in and where did Matt fit in?

00:54:31.514 --> 00:54:35.043
Was he also working side by side with you during these years?

00:54:35.304 --> 00:54:37.713
So Matt started a year after I did.

00:54:37.824 --> 00:54:39.614
So he started in 12, I believe.

00:54:40.063 --> 00:54:43.253
And then, um, so he and I were working side by side, right.

00:54:43.304 --> 00:54:44.083
Over those years.

00:54:44.083 --> 00:54:49.253
And then he bought, um, a business and then bought another one kind of locally.

00:54:49.699 --> 00:54:53.188
Um, and so then those businesses were taking, you know, some of his time.

00:54:53.188 --> 00:54:58.349
And so he, you know, kind of moved to those and rightfully so, right.

00:54:58.349 --> 00:55:00.409
Cause deal flow had slowed anyway.

00:55:00.409 --> 00:55:04.389
And, um, so he had kind of gone that direction.

00:55:05.228 --> 00:55:07.139
Chris had kind of gone his direction.

00:55:07.179 --> 00:55:08.739
I kind of went my direction.

00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:12.918
Um, Claudia, another gal that worked with us kind of went her direction.

00:55:12.918 --> 00:55:16.884
And, uh, And, um, so it just kind of dissolved.

00:55:16.983 --> 00:55:20.554
It didn't dissolve officially, but, um, it was still there in the background.

00:55:20.554 --> 00:55:20.704
Right.

00:55:20.704 --> 00:55:32.554
Cause we still have had and have, uh, like legacy clients that we've had for 10 years kind of thing, um, that we stay in touch with and that sort of thing, which is, which is great.

00:55:32.594 --> 00:55:34.934
And acquirers that want to know if you've met anybody lately.

00:55:34.954 --> 00:55:35.753
Absolutely.

00:55:36.563 --> 00:55:37.864
That never stops.

00:55:37.893 --> 00:55:38.184
Right.

00:55:39.304 --> 00:55:45.284
Um, but, uh, So, so Matt had kind of gone his, his way.

00:55:45.364 --> 00:55:46.554
I went my way.

00:55:46.914 --> 00:55:50.753
And then, um, you know, he was contemplating maybe a ship.

00:55:50.764 --> 00:55:58.534
Matt was contemplating it, maybe a shift in, in his world, um, a couple of years ago and express interest in getting back in the kind of deal game.

00:55:58.534 --> 00:55:58.693
Right.

00:55:58.704 --> 00:55:59.184
Yeah.

00:55:59.184 --> 00:55:59.253
Yeah.

00:55:59.253 --> 00:56:01.869
Um, and so we said, yeah, I think.

00:56:02.068 --> 00:56:03.259
So yeah, that'd be great.

00:56:03.318 --> 00:56:04.318
You know, that's awesome.

00:56:04.699 --> 00:56:11.188
Um, and, and I have been in touch with Chris, both Matt and I had been in touch with Chris over all these years, like we're still friends and everything.

00:56:11.188 --> 00:56:23.548
So, um, so we, you know, had been talking to Chris and, and so we worked it out to acquire Citadel from him a little, about two and a half years ago, probably.

00:56:24.094 --> 00:56:25.664
Probably super good guy terms.

00:56:25.664 --> 00:56:34.503
He's just, yeah, you know, there's some value, there's some going to get certain value because some of those relationships and stuff and just being around for 20 years instead of three.

00:56:34.563 --> 00:56:36.253
So that's, that's part of it.

00:56:36.563 --> 00:56:37.153
Certainly.

00:56:37.193 --> 00:56:37.454
Right.

00:56:37.454 --> 00:56:54.673
And that was the, that was the big thing for us is like, because there is some, you know, I could go out and under my own LLC and umbrella and show the, you know, You know, four deals that I closed by myself, or I could, you know, use the Citadel stuff that I was a part of, right.

00:56:54.744 --> 00:57:01.543
And then there's, there's double or triple those number of transactions that were before me that we don't even have on the website.

00:57:01.653 --> 00:57:02.094
Right.

00:57:02.094 --> 00:57:07.494
So, um, so we used it, you know, kind of a, it was a.

00:57:08.108 --> 00:57:14.628
More of a marketing play than anything, but it's also like, no, for sure.

00:57:14.659 --> 00:57:19.998
Legacy can continue on and breathe new life into other businesses and people's lives.

00:57:20.039 --> 00:57:20.719
Absolutely.

00:57:20.898 --> 00:57:21.588
Absolutely.

00:57:21.739 --> 00:57:23.838
So, um, so that's worked out great.

00:57:23.909 --> 00:57:31.009
And, and we've, we've put in a ton of work and, um, it's a different world now than it was, right?

00:57:31.009 --> 00:57:33.369
Like kind of being full throttle in it.

00:57:33.369 --> 00:57:36.148
There's, there's a lot more competition of folks like us.

00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:41.909
There's, Um, yeah, the buyer, the buyer world, um, is different.

00:57:41.909 --> 00:57:49.099
Their buyer activity is buyers are approaching sellers directly far more than they used to.

00:57:49.398 --> 00:57:53.028
Some of my next level members report getting like a phone call a month.

00:57:53.668 --> 00:57:58.438
Oh, I would somebody, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a day, like, it's crazy.

00:57:58.889 --> 00:58:01.208
And they're like, why do I need you?

00:58:01.228 --> 00:58:02.998
Well, so that's the thing.

00:58:03.048 --> 00:58:09.148
And so that's a horror stories from their friends and they're like, Oh, maybe I should call Aaron before I get too far into that.

00:58:09.159 --> 00:58:10.688
That's a whole nother story.

00:58:10.688 --> 00:58:10.998
Right.

00:58:10.998 --> 00:58:14.909
Because then you talk about, well, who's in control of the deal at that point.

00:58:14.918 --> 00:58:15.278
Yeah.

00:58:15.579 --> 00:58:15.898
Right.

00:58:15.949 --> 00:58:22.289
And so I have that conversation a lot with folks in that, um, you know, buyer contacts them and says, Yeah.

00:58:22.289 --> 00:58:22.297
Yeah.

00:58:22.297 --> 00:58:22.304
Yeah.

00:58:22.304 --> 00:58:29.353
You know, you know, we want to buy you, we acquire you, whatever, you know, you can, we'll be flexible with structure.

00:58:29.364 --> 00:58:38.284
We'll, you know, we're thinking this valuation range and it's traditionally more than what, maybe what the, what the seller, you know, is expected.

00:58:38.284 --> 00:58:42.023
They don't get any representation.

00:58:42.023 --> 00:58:48.284
Well, and so then they spend, you know, anywhere from 90 to 180 days in due diligence, sometimes longer.

00:58:48.634 --> 00:58:49.974
Um, and they just get.

00:58:50.233 --> 00:58:51.483
Drug, right?

00:58:51.483 --> 00:58:57.603
And it's, it's disrupting your whole business, your operations go downhill, your cash flow, your profitability.

00:58:57.643 --> 00:58:58.914
Now all of a sudden you're worthless.

00:58:58.943 --> 00:59:05.673
You're participating to, you know, on conference calls, you know, multiple times a week and the owner's like, holy hell.

00:59:05.673 --> 00:59:08.304
You're actually destroying value in this thing you're trying to sell.

00:59:08.313 --> 00:59:08.653
Yeah.

00:59:08.704 --> 00:59:10.353
I don't have time for this shit.

00:59:10.353 --> 00:59:10.494
Right.

00:59:10.594 --> 00:59:12.184
So, um.

00:59:12.248 --> 00:59:16.639
Um, so then they get down to the, to the end, right in the 11th hour.

00:59:16.639 --> 00:59:21.748
And the, the buyer comes back and says, well, we found X, Y, and Z during due diligence.

00:59:21.759 --> 00:59:26.829
So we're going to have to ding you on valuation with this, or we're going to ding you in structure somehow.

00:59:26.829 --> 00:59:28.128
Or pay out slower.

00:59:28.139 --> 00:59:28.378
Yeah.

00:59:28.378 --> 00:59:29.498
Or we're going to earn out.

00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:29.849
Yep.

00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:31.449
Um, so.

00:59:32.123 --> 00:59:36.724
So we talked to folks a lot about being proactive about that, right?

00:59:36.773 --> 00:59:43.474
Like you may not want to sell for two years, but let's, let me paint a picture for you.

00:59:43.603 --> 00:59:43.864
Right.

00:59:43.903 --> 00:59:50.378
Like, so, Initially, it's going to take three to four months before you can even go to market.

00:59:51.518 --> 00:59:59.139
And that's, and that's moving, like, if your financials are already in good shape, your controller is worth a shit.

00:59:59.148 --> 01:00:00.199
Right, right, right.

01:00:00.329 --> 01:00:01.648
So all of that stuff, right.

01:00:01.648 --> 01:00:03.119
So you're at four months there.

01:00:03.449 --> 01:00:12.494
You're anywhere from, from Two to, you know, two, three months to six to nine, kind of.

01:00:12.494 --> 01:00:15.744
So anywhere from two to nine months while you're marketing it.

01:00:16.353 --> 01:00:28.233
Um, and then you have another kind of, you know, 60 days and that kind of that LOI negotiation, picking your horse kind of thing, and then another 90 days on top of that to close it.

01:00:28.764 --> 01:00:33.054
And, and you're already a year and a half, a year, right.

01:00:33.094 --> 01:00:35.833
Anyway, um, or a year and a half down the path.

01:00:35.884 --> 01:00:37.134
Oh, and by the way, they're going to.

01:00:37.699 --> 01:00:43.039
You know, make you stay for six months at a minimum, right?

01:00:43.628 --> 01:00:46.219
Typically it's at least a year, sometimes it's two.

01:00:46.478 --> 01:00:50.099
So if you want to be out in two years, like you had to start like two years ago.

01:00:50.349 --> 01:00:52.708
Yeah, well, certainly now, right.

01:00:53.018 --> 01:00:53.998
So that's something.

01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:55.699
And then when you do that, right.

01:00:55.699 --> 01:00:59.989
Different than if you start that process, then.

01:01:00.213 --> 01:01:04.414
We sit down and talk about goals, your goals, your expectations.

01:01:04.443 --> 01:01:09.293
Like, do you have a psychology degree or do you hire a counselors or anything?

01:01:09.543 --> 01:01:12.443
Cause I imagine a lot of owners are like, I don't quite know what I want.

01:01:12.483 --> 01:01:12.844
Of course.

01:01:12.853 --> 01:01:14.634
I want something different than what I have right now.

01:01:14.664 --> 01:01:15.173
Of course.

01:01:15.184 --> 01:01:18.284
So we'll walk him down that path and kind of paint the picture.

01:01:18.284 --> 01:01:19.684
What do you think about this path?

01:01:19.693 --> 01:01:20.224
Kind of thing.

01:01:20.224 --> 01:01:21.074
What do you think about that one?

01:01:21.483 --> 01:01:28.824
Um, and so we, we talk with them about their goals and, and then we build out that material.

01:01:29.193 --> 01:01:37.204
You know, in line with those and, and then we go to the market, which is likely the same buyer or similar, that's going to approach you anyway.

01:01:37.713 --> 01:01:41.954
And then we go and say, here are the terms that are okay with us, right?

01:01:42.164 --> 01:01:44.204
Here's they'll stay for six months.

01:01:44.293 --> 01:01:46.563
They're, they're not interested in an earn out.

01:01:46.753 --> 01:01:48.393
They won't do seller financing.

01:01:48.713 --> 01:01:53.563
They, you know, have to take care of their, they need a management incentive pool for their key employees.

01:01:53.923 --> 01:01:54.543
They need this.

01:01:54.543 --> 01:01:55.903
They want to roll 20%.

01:01:55.914 --> 01:01:57.233
They want to roll 30%.

01:01:57.434 --> 01:01:58.603
They don't want to roll anything.

01:01:58.893 --> 01:02:00.173
Whatever the case may be, right.

01:02:00.733 --> 01:02:04.793
And so then you take it out and you're like, take it or leave it.

01:02:04.793 --> 01:02:07.873
And then it's up to me and us, right.

01:02:08.153 --> 01:02:12.333
To manage the process based on those objectives.

01:02:12.373 --> 01:02:13.443
With the right acquirer.

01:02:13.623 --> 01:02:14.284
Yeah, absolutely.

01:02:14.284 --> 01:02:16.284
That's not going to blow up the culture or whatever.

01:02:16.313 --> 01:02:16.793
That's right.

01:02:17.114 --> 01:02:20.983
And so then it's, um, so then it's a lot of.

01:02:21.983 --> 01:02:24.594
You know, you, you kiss frogs, right?

01:02:24.784 --> 01:02:29.414
Like, like in, in most, you know, business situations.

01:02:29.434 --> 01:02:35.034
But, um, but you try to do a lot more than they realize too.

01:02:35.134 --> 01:02:35.684
Absolutely.

01:02:35.864 --> 01:02:39.434
And you try to, you try to do it the right way, right.

01:02:39.443 --> 01:02:44.333
To, to meet the goals and, and get them to that, get them to the end instead of.

01:02:44.704 --> 01:02:46.514
Having it flipped in the 11th hour.

01:02:46.744 --> 01:03:01.594
I've got a, uh, a member and I won't say enough to be identifiable, but this, this member had probably 17 million a year business or something, but with bottom lining like four, four and a half.

01:03:02.324 --> 01:03:02.824
And.

01:03:03.278 --> 01:03:11.679
But was like working 80 hour a week and this and that it's like dude, you need some more help Like you've done this thing so much.

01:03:11.679 --> 01:03:23.759
You just don't have the infrastructure and you can afford it So first figure that out, you know, and just like he didn't realize how what kind of I mean to have a Industry facing kind of blue collar ish.

01:03:23.768 --> 01:03:26.728
Yeah business that that's that's pulling.

01:03:28.018 --> 01:03:33.458
I think it was Ish 50 percent gross margins and ish 25 percent net margins.

01:03:33.548 --> 01:03:34.398
Yeah, yeah, that's great.

01:03:34.438 --> 01:03:35.509
you got a rock star here.

01:03:35.619 --> 01:03:36.159
Yeah, that's great.

01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:39.108
You know, people are going to be licking their lips over buying you someday soon.

01:03:39.119 --> 01:03:39.599
No doubt.

01:03:39.878 --> 01:03:41.219
Uh, anyway, I digress.

01:03:41.539 --> 01:03:43.159
Um, and I have to pee.

01:03:43.418 --> 01:03:43.929
Oh, sounds good.

01:03:43.929 --> 01:03:44.989
Um, so I suggest we take a break.

01:03:45.159 --> 01:03:45.548
Perfect...

01:04:23.632 --> 01:04:24.005
Ha ha.

01:04:24.005 --> 01:04:24.376
Ha ha.

01:04:25.036 --> 01:04:36.746
Well, I, I sincerely believe that it really, most drugs and foods and all that, it really so much depends on your chemistry and what jives with you and what doesn't jive with you.

01:04:36.907 --> 01:04:38.306
Yeah, that's fair.

01:04:38.586 --> 01:04:45.976
You know, I think I was, uh, almost certainly a, you know, I'd be a Ritalin kid if I was ten years later kind of thing.

01:04:46.016 --> 01:04:46.556
Oh, yeah.

01:04:46.827 --> 01:04:49.016
Um, and for me, it's never really been a, you know.

01:04:49.786 --> 01:04:56.677
Doesn't make me lazy, doesn't make me paranoid, doesn't make me anything, uh, except for happier.

01:04:56.706 --> 01:04:57.726
Just low key.

01:04:57.737 --> 01:04:58.067
Mostly.

01:04:59.467 --> 01:04:59.996
That's good.

01:05:00.246 --> 01:05:00.717
More power to you.

01:05:00.817 --> 01:05:07.947
I, uh, but that's my homegrown there, uh, which, uh, I just harvested the rest of before the big freeze comes.

01:05:07.967 --> 01:05:08.597
Oh, really?

01:05:08.617 --> 01:05:18.092
So I've got about a pound, half a pound, somewhere between a half a pound and a pound of like Fresh, drying buds in my man cave right now.

01:05:18.092 --> 01:05:19.027
Can you say that on the air?

01:05:19.416 --> 01:05:19.976
It's legal.

01:05:20.226 --> 01:05:22.027
Yeah, you can grow six plants.

01:05:23.427 --> 01:05:25.407
See, I don't know anything about that world.

01:05:25.887 --> 01:05:27.657
How much does that produce?

01:05:28.646 --> 01:05:30.117
Like, how many times can I get high?

01:05:30.117 --> 01:05:31.637
Well, six plants.

01:05:31.657 --> 01:05:32.577
This is just one plant.

01:05:32.626 --> 01:05:34.266
I grew one plant one plant.

01:05:34.836 --> 01:05:46.416
And I think I have somewhere in between a half pound and a pound of, like, uh, All we could know is like clippin the little leaves off and so I just got all these branches full of buds now.

01:05:46.447 --> 01:05:47.387
Wow, good for you.

01:05:47.456 --> 01:05:48.586
Yeah, you know.

01:05:48.646 --> 01:05:48.806
That's cool.

01:05:49.007 --> 01:05:51.447
But I'm already sick of the flavor.

01:05:51.806 --> 01:05:52.376
Really?

01:05:52.416 --> 01:05:56.067
That's the beauty of a retail store is it got all these different flavors.

01:05:56.077 --> 01:06:04.036
So I need to find like a home grower weed network and we can just do like a, a swap meet.

01:06:04.336 --> 01:06:04.967
Oh, there you go.

01:06:04.976 --> 01:06:05.606
That's a good idea.

01:06:05.887 --> 01:06:08.536
Kind of like a, uh, yeah, like a Tupperware party.

01:06:09.157 --> 01:06:09.527
Yeah.

01:06:09.527 --> 01:06:10.836
Except for just different fleas.

01:06:10.836 --> 01:06:14.556
More like a big sale, I would say, where people buy each other's big goods.

01:06:14.567 --> 01:06:16.416
So they don't have to eat that same shit they always make.

01:06:16.476 --> 01:06:16.907
Totally.

01:06:16.976 --> 01:06:17.197
Yeah.

01:06:17.246 --> 01:06:17.427
Yeah.

01:06:17.427 --> 01:06:17.916
It makes sense.

01:06:17.956 --> 01:06:19.027
Anyway, I digress.

01:06:19.407 --> 01:06:27.166
Um, So, oh yeah, so we're going to jump, um, into the, the longer term time machine.

01:06:27.376 --> 01:06:27.706
Okay.

01:06:27.876 --> 01:06:34.896
Um, and then kind of fly through a little bit, cause you've been in townie all, all your life really.

01:06:35.527 --> 01:06:39.016
And then we'll hit the kind of mandatory segments and then, and then close it up.

01:06:39.016 --> 01:06:43.896
And you can tell us about that, uh, edible experience at, uh, at Red Rocks.

01:06:43.907 --> 01:06:44.286
That one.

01:06:44.396 --> 01:06:45.606
That might not be the local experience.

01:06:47.606 --> 01:06:54.501
So, um, Yeah, so you're, you, you are born and raised, like, born right here in Poudre Valley Hospital or something like that?

01:06:54.501 --> 01:06:55.612
Born at PVH, yes, sir.

01:06:55.612 --> 01:06:56.021
Okay.

01:06:56.351 --> 01:07:00.771
What were, what were the circumstances, uh, I, your dad is in Rotary Club with me.

01:07:00.782 --> 01:07:01.231
He is?

01:07:01.231 --> 01:07:02.411
He's a professor.

01:07:02.481 --> 01:07:02.811
Was?

01:07:02.822 --> 01:07:04.411
At CSU, was a professor, rather.

01:07:04.411 --> 01:07:04.521
A long time.

01:07:04.532 --> 01:07:05.371
Retired now.

01:07:05.552 --> 01:07:05.771
Yep.

01:07:05.862 --> 01:07:07.617
Um, so I, I know that about ten percent.

01:07:07.806 --> 01:07:08.166
him.

01:07:08.166 --> 01:07:09.556
I imagine he already was.

01:07:09.876 --> 01:07:10.246
Yeah.

01:07:10.297 --> 01:07:11.186
When you were born.

01:07:11.657 --> 01:07:12.086
Yeah.

01:07:12.447 --> 01:07:12.726
Yeah.

01:07:12.726 --> 01:07:17.547
So he was with the university for a long time, 35 years, something maybe teaching.

01:07:18.487 --> 01:07:21.916
Um, he taught in the college of business, uh, management department.

01:07:22.516 --> 01:07:35.407
Um, but I know any taught late in his later years, well later, I would say last probably 10 or 15 to my recollection, um, in the MBA program.

01:07:35.416 --> 01:07:35.757
Okay.

01:07:36.152 --> 01:07:48.791
Um, that sort of thing, but, um, yeah, he taught his, and he would teach kind of the entry level management course occasionally, but, um, he wasn't overly fond of undergrads.

01:07:48.791 --> 01:07:53.021
Um, so, but he taught org behavior, organizational behavior and ethics.

01:07:53.661 --> 01:07:54.291
Oh, interesting.

01:07:54.302 --> 01:07:54.322
Yeah.

01:07:54.722 --> 01:07:57.112
I took extra ethics, uh, classes.

01:07:57.121 --> 01:07:57.172
Did you?

01:07:57.172 --> 01:07:57.302
Yeah.

01:07:57.302 --> 01:07:59.442
I took a, I got a philosophy minor virtually.

01:07:59.492 --> 01:08:00.242
Oh, really?

01:08:00.242 --> 01:08:00.422
Yeah.

01:08:00.422 --> 01:08:00.641
Yeah.

01:08:01.586 --> 01:08:01.606
Yeah.

01:08:01.617 --> 01:08:03.126
Ethics was an interesting thing.

01:08:03.496 --> 01:08:03.567
Yeah.

01:08:03.597 --> 01:08:06.606
Well, and we pay, I pay a lot of attention to it at Loco Think Tank.

01:08:06.706 --> 01:08:07.157
Mm hmm.

01:08:07.356 --> 01:08:19.846
You know, years ago I had a, a member who had a marketing agency and he's like, dude, I would totally give you like a 10 percent continuing kickback on customers that you refer me to for marketing services.

01:08:19.957 --> 01:08:20.067
Oh.

01:08:20.537 --> 01:08:21.787
I was like, well, that sounds great.

01:08:21.787 --> 01:08:23.367
I wouldn't refer anybody else.

01:08:23.407 --> 01:08:23.606
Yeah.

01:08:23.971 --> 01:08:28.721
And, like, I've got three other members that have marketing agencies, and so I can't do it.

01:08:28.752 --> 01:08:29.992
Like, it would corrupt me.

01:08:30.011 --> 01:08:31.452
Like, it doesn't mean you're the best fit.

01:08:31.452 --> 01:08:33.311
It just means you're the one I would get paid on.

01:08:33.322 --> 01:08:33.902
And that's gross.

01:08:33.902 --> 01:08:34.641
For sure, for sure.

01:08:34.912 --> 01:08:38.782
And your industry is filled with That kind of stuff too.

01:08:39.051 --> 01:08:42.421
So I assume that's even maybe part of your foundation.

01:08:42.862 --> 01:08:45.112
We'll do, we'll do some of that.

01:08:45.131 --> 01:08:45.771
Certainly.

01:08:45.832 --> 01:08:46.681
Unethical stuff.

01:08:49.942 --> 01:08:51.192
No referral.

01:08:52.402 --> 01:08:55.902
Well, but, but in your case, your customers are so hard to find that.

01:08:56.061 --> 01:09:03.402
Well, yeah, because for us, it's, we don't do a lot of like outbound marketing stuff, right.

01:09:03.402 --> 01:09:10.561
We do some, but, um, but a lot of it is referral through, you know, CLIs and, you know, that kind of thing.

01:09:10.561 --> 01:09:13.692
So CPAs and whatnot, I suppose.

01:09:14.141 --> 01:09:15.271
Um, okay.

01:09:15.271 --> 01:09:17.322
So you're, and was your mom.

01:09:17.936 --> 01:09:19.546
I forget what was her career path.

01:09:19.546 --> 01:09:23.567
Yep, so my mom, well, so my parents got divorced when I was seven.

01:09:23.747 --> 01:09:24.346
Oh, they did?

01:09:24.377 --> 01:09:27.877
Yep, so my mom lives in Loveland.

01:09:27.976 --> 01:09:28.266
Okay.

01:09:28.266 --> 01:09:33.947
And she's remarried, but she Oh, so the, the person I've met, your dad's That wife is not your mom.

01:09:33.976 --> 01:09:34.216
Yep.

01:09:34.216 --> 01:09:34.577
Correct.

01:09:34.636 --> 01:09:34.997
Mary.

01:09:35.087 --> 01:09:35.237
Gotcha.

01:09:35.237 --> 01:09:35.447
Yeah.

01:09:35.567 --> 01:09:37.067
So, but I can touch on all of'em.

01:09:37.216 --> 01:09:37.396
Sure.

01:09:37.457 --> 01:09:43.936
So, um, um, so my mom was a geriatric care manager.

01:09:44.087 --> 01:09:44.447
Okay.

01:09:44.537 --> 01:09:49.877
Um, and kind of worked in that elder care community for a long time.

01:09:50.226 --> 01:09:52.386
Um, she retired a number of years ago.

01:09:53.226 --> 01:09:59.167
Um, Mary, my dad's wife, my stepmom, um, they got, so parents got divorced when I was seven.

01:09:59.582 --> 01:10:07.992
Um, they got remarried when I was nine and, um, she worked in banking for, oh, yeah, I did remember that.

01:10:08.282 --> 01:10:08.521
Yeah.

01:10:08.521 --> 01:10:19.721
So she was the director of marketing for home state for a long time, um, you know, until the guarantee thing happened and then she retired at that point, but do you have siblings too?

01:10:19.771 --> 01:10:20.712
My, yeah.

01:10:21.091 --> 01:10:22.841
Um, and, and my mom's married.

01:10:23.841 --> 01:10:25.662
husband, and they, they live in Loveland.

01:10:25.671 --> 01:10:28.891
So anyway, um, And what's her, what's her name?

01:10:29.412 --> 01:10:31.292
Um, my mom's name is Nancy.

01:10:31.301 --> 01:10:31.801
Hi Nancy.

01:10:31.801 --> 01:10:32.061
Yeah.

01:10:32.112 --> 01:10:33.032
You'll probably listen to this.

01:10:33.032 --> 01:10:33.171
Yeah.

01:10:33.171 --> 01:10:41.021
She may, um, the, uh, and so I have an older brother and an older sister and an older stepbrother and a younger stepsister.

01:10:41.271 --> 01:10:41.692
Oh, wow.

01:10:41.891 --> 01:10:42.171
That's fun.

01:10:42.171 --> 01:10:42.671
Yeah.

01:10:42.671 --> 01:10:42.921
Yeah.

01:10:42.992 --> 01:10:46.652
So my brother and his wife live here in town.

01:10:47.221 --> 01:10:50.471
Um, and he's an assistant chief with the.

01:10:51.032 --> 01:10:51.212
F.

01:10:51.212 --> 01:10:51.402
C.

01:10:51.402 --> 01:10:51.582
P.

01:10:51.582 --> 01:10:51.832
D.

01:10:52.002 --> 01:10:52.511
Oh, okay.

01:10:52.601 --> 01:10:54.881
Um, Oh, so you got an N if you ever get in trouble.

01:10:55.242 --> 01:10:58.042
Yeah, I, yeah, I don't, I don't want to use that.

01:10:58.042 --> 01:10:58.841
Try not to rely on it?

01:10:58.851 --> 01:10:59.171
No.

01:10:59.731 --> 01:11:00.971
Um, Hopefully not.

01:11:01.332 --> 01:11:02.771
But you assume you try to have it a little.

01:11:02.782 --> 01:11:03.322
Yeah, yeah.

01:11:03.421 --> 01:11:05.131
So he and his wife live in Fort Collins.

01:11:05.131 --> 01:11:06.011
They have two kids.

01:11:06.051 --> 01:11:10.992
Um, they're, uh, both kind of in col One's in college, one's out of college.

01:11:11.221 --> 01:11:13.261
School or somewhat.

01:11:13.372 --> 01:11:13.721
Yeah, yeah.

01:11:13.752 --> 01:11:18.891
Um, and my sister and her husband live in Longmont.

01:11:18.981 --> 01:11:19.332
Okay.

01:11:19.521 --> 01:11:24.412
And my stepbrother and his wife and their two kids live in Wisconsin.

01:11:24.561 --> 01:11:24.962
Okay.

01:11:25.152 --> 01:11:28.042
And my stepsister and her fiance live in Austin.

01:11:28.572 --> 01:11:28.822
Oh.

01:11:29.612 --> 01:11:30.532
So, yeah.

01:11:30.622 --> 01:11:31.162
There you go.

01:11:31.282 --> 01:11:34.542
Got quite the, uh, but a lot of concentration here locally.

01:11:34.542 --> 01:11:34.983
Yeah.

01:11:34.983 --> 01:11:38.511
What kind of a, uh, two questions really.

01:11:38.511 --> 01:11:41.712
Uh, what kind of a seven year old were you?

01:11:42.261 --> 01:11:48.171
Five, six, seven year old, were you, uh, rambunctious, were you sporty, were you smart, were you sassy?

01:11:48.521 --> 01:11:49.372
Kissing all the girls.

01:11:49.681 --> 01:11:54.917
Um I would say social, right?

01:11:54.926 --> 01:12:02.117
Like teachers would, you know, call me social, or that's what my parents would say when they come home from conferences.

01:12:02.567 --> 01:12:02.856
Right.

01:12:02.926 --> 01:12:06.907
Um, yeah, so social, sporty, right.

01:12:06.936 --> 01:12:09.827
Basketball, soccer, you know, stuff.

01:12:09.846 --> 01:12:10.266
The stuff.

01:12:10.296 --> 01:12:14.407
Um, yeah, just friends running around doing.

01:12:15.061 --> 01:12:20.162
How, uh, how was the, like, divorce situation for you?

01:12:20.171 --> 01:12:22.162
Like, was it traumatic for your family?

01:12:22.162 --> 01:12:24.162
Was it expected for a while?

01:12:24.171 --> 01:12:25.551
No, without getting into any details.

01:12:25.551 --> 01:12:28.221
But how was it on you, specifically?

01:12:28.221 --> 01:12:29.421
You were the youngest, right, at the time?

01:12:29.431 --> 01:12:30.742
I was the youngest, yep.

01:12:30.832 --> 01:12:35.631
Um, you know, It was not expected.

01:12:35.712 --> 01:12:37.601
It was completely unexpected.

01:12:37.891 --> 01:12:41.822
Um, now, I don't know if it was expected for them.

01:12:42.221 --> 01:12:42.551
Right.

01:12:42.702 --> 01:12:46.362
But, um, but no, it, you know.

01:12:46.462 --> 01:12:51.421
For you guys, it was like, just so you know, mom and, your mom and I had a talk and we're getting divorced.

01:12:51.421 --> 01:12:52.341
Yeah, basically.

01:12:52.372 --> 01:12:52.601
Wow.

01:12:52.601 --> 01:12:52.846
Yeah.

01:12:53.476 --> 01:12:54.947
No fighting in the hallways.

01:12:54.957 --> 01:12:57.287
Except it came from my mom, just so you know.

01:12:57.287 --> 01:12:58.216
Yeah, yeah.

01:12:59.186 --> 01:13:01.027
But, at least it did for me.

01:13:01.207 --> 01:13:15.957
Um, and, you know, it affected me, but, I don't know that it was, um, I mean it was traumatic, but I don't know that it was overly traumatic, right?

01:13:16.726 --> 01:13:17.296
For none of you guys?

01:13:17.296 --> 01:13:22.341
So my brother and sister, Our, our seven and six years older than me.

01:13:22.511 --> 01:13:23.021
Okay.

01:13:23.072 --> 01:13:26.282
So, so they were 13 when it happened.

01:13:26.931 --> 01:13:28.231
So it was different for them.

01:13:28.452 --> 01:13:28.801
Right.

01:13:28.881 --> 01:13:41.042
Um, but, uh, and then when my dad got remarried, um, you know, two years later, um, it, I don't know, it was a little bit, Were you raised by your mom more?

01:13:41.152 --> 01:13:42.072
So I split.

01:13:42.112 --> 01:13:49.971
So from the time that, um, from the time that they got divorced, which, and something that's kind of.

01:13:50.601 --> 01:13:51.171
Interesting.

01:13:51.171 --> 01:14:01.252
But, um, or at least from the time that my dad was remarried, I went every other week between the two.

01:14:01.801 --> 01:14:06.412
Every Sunday, I'd go to the other's house for a week until I was in high school.

01:14:07.051 --> 01:14:07.391
That's wild.

01:14:07.832 --> 01:14:09.362
That was unusual back then.

01:14:09.362 --> 01:14:10.471
Now it's pretty common.

01:14:10.502 --> 01:14:13.532
Well, thinking about that now, I'm like, holy hell.

01:14:13.652 --> 01:14:17.112
Every week for seven years.

01:14:17.822 --> 01:14:19.931
I guess five years, right?

01:14:19.992 --> 01:14:24.042
Like that's a long time to go every Sunday.

01:14:24.051 --> 01:14:24.521
No wonder why.

01:14:24.532 --> 01:14:26.202
Were they in the same neighborhoods and stuff?

01:14:26.212 --> 01:14:29.631
Um, no, but, but they were both in town.

01:14:29.631 --> 01:14:31.181
You could go to the same schools, obviously.

01:14:31.181 --> 01:14:34.181
I mean, that was my, that was, and that was my big thing.

01:14:34.181 --> 01:14:40.351
Like, that was my big fear about, um, like I just didn't, I didn't want to leave my friends.

01:14:40.362 --> 01:14:42.141
Did your older siblings choose one?

01:14:42.212 --> 01:14:54.381
Um, yeah, so early on, my brother lived with my dad and my sister lived with my mom, and then they flopped maybe once or twice back and forth.

01:14:54.832 --> 01:14:58.721
Um, so, and then in high school I did the same thing.

01:14:58.721 --> 01:15:04.671
So I kind of live with my dad for a year, the better part of a year that I live with my mom, my junior year.

01:15:05.766 --> 01:15:09.096
Excuse me, the better part of that year, um, and then back.

01:15:09.096 --> 01:15:15.796
So, yeah, I was just kind of, it was, increased your adaptability and like the way that you can understand.

01:15:16.516 --> 01:15:17.407
Certainly, yeah.

01:15:17.407 --> 01:15:21.777
I don't, I don't know.

01:15:21.846 --> 01:15:22.976
I mean, it probably did.

01:15:23.067 --> 01:15:23.277
Yeah.

01:15:23.587 --> 01:15:28.917
Um, I feel for kids, you know, that are, that go through that.

01:15:29.046 --> 01:15:29.386
Right.

01:15:29.527 --> 01:15:35.667
Um, but the crazy thing is I don't remember anything prior to, Me being seven.

01:15:35.837 --> 01:15:36.157
Yeah.

01:15:36.226 --> 01:15:36.407
Yeah.

01:15:36.407 --> 01:15:36.606
Yeah.

01:15:36.617 --> 01:15:43.027
Like I, I don't, it was, I, I literally have blocked everything out prior to that.

01:15:43.067 --> 01:15:43.546
Interesting.

01:15:43.726 --> 01:15:45.756
Prior to my mom telling me, right?

01:15:45.756 --> 01:15:52.377
So, and I was seven years old and I think about like, I have a daughter who's eight I'm like, and she remembers everything.

01:15:52.377 --> 01:15:52.837
Right?

01:15:52.837 --> 01:15:53.077
Right.

01:15:53.077 --> 01:15:54.877
So, um.

01:15:55.252 --> 01:15:59.981
So thinking about that, like, I, I just, You haven't unpacked that with a counselor or anything?

01:15:59.981 --> 01:16:02.292
Trying to, I did as a kid, right?

01:16:02.301 --> 01:16:05.851
Like, so early on in those years, you to try to remember some of those.

01:16:06.131 --> 01:16:06.872
Probably.

01:16:06.962 --> 01:16:07.372
I don't know.

01:16:07.442 --> 01:16:08.872
It, it, it may be.

01:16:08.981 --> 01:16:09.551
Just speculating.

01:16:09.551 --> 01:16:09.891
I don't know.

01:16:10.162 --> 01:16:10.502
I don't know.

01:16:11.131 --> 01:16:18.527
Um, And so like, as you go through your teenage years and what did you actually go to college for in the first place?

01:16:18.556 --> 01:16:19.197
What did you tell me?

01:16:19.317 --> 01:16:22.646
Um, I originally went for CI, CIS information.

01:16:22.707 --> 01:16:23.087
Okay.

01:16:23.087 --> 01:16:23.766
Computer stuff.

01:16:23.766 --> 01:16:23.997
Yeah.

01:16:23.997 --> 01:16:27.667
Because I asked my dad and I didn't know what to do.

01:16:27.667 --> 01:16:30.426
And he's like, Oh, you know, CIS is where the money is.

01:16:30.436 --> 01:16:30.817
Right.

01:16:31.277 --> 01:16:31.396
Sweet.

01:16:31.697 --> 01:16:32.447
Well, that's what I'll do.

01:16:32.966 --> 01:16:34.016
And it was terrible.

01:16:34.306 --> 01:16:37.806
I did one class in visual basic and I was like, this is not.

01:16:37.846 --> 01:16:39.527
Here locally at CSU.

01:16:39.577 --> 01:16:39.926
Okay.

01:16:40.317 --> 01:16:42.216
And then what did you shift to?

01:16:43.992 --> 01:16:44.372
Okay.

01:16:44.481 --> 01:16:44.822
Oh yeah.

01:16:44.872 --> 01:16:45.042
Yeah.

01:16:45.042 --> 01:16:45.832
We talked about that, I guess.

01:16:46.601 --> 01:16:56.981
Um, like what else about you would people want to know from those, uh, middle age years, middle, middle teen years and stuff where you still in sports, still active.

01:16:57.002 --> 01:16:57.532
Yeah.

01:16:57.612 --> 01:16:57.881
Yeah.

01:16:57.881 --> 01:17:02.981
So I played, I played soccer, um, and basketball, but in skied a ton.

01:17:03.532 --> 01:17:04.921
Um, but.

01:17:05.641 --> 01:17:07.412
You know, soccer was kind of my thing.

01:17:07.412 --> 01:17:08.612
It was kind of a year round thing.

01:17:08.622 --> 01:17:16.061
Played on a team, you know, traveling team that, and I still have good close friends from that team that I'm still tight with.

01:17:16.061 --> 01:17:18.311
And, um, which is great.

01:17:18.372 --> 01:17:19.322
What was your position?

01:17:19.322 --> 01:17:21.502
At that time it was defense.

01:17:21.511 --> 01:17:23.402
When I got into high school, then I started playing in offense.

01:17:23.481 --> 01:17:23.832
Okay.

01:17:24.282 --> 01:17:33.572
Um, which I don't know why, you know, cause I was always a defender, but, um, so, um, so yeah.

01:17:33.572 --> 01:17:34.332
But I loved it.

01:17:34.362 --> 01:17:35.612
I mean, I, I miss it.

01:17:35.622 --> 01:17:36.131
Certainly.

01:17:36.131 --> 01:17:37.271
I still dream about it.

01:17:37.572 --> 01:17:37.891
Really?

01:17:37.921 --> 01:17:39.061
Uh, yeah, for sure.

01:17:39.362 --> 01:17:40.051
But you don't play it anymore.

01:17:40.532 --> 01:17:45.511
No, I, I played in a couple of men's league, you know, years.

01:17:45.511 --> 01:17:48.881
And, uh, my wife and I played in a co ed league one year.

01:17:48.881 --> 01:17:59.162
And the last year of, uh, men's league, I, I had, I had torn an ACL, um, skiing and then kept playing on it.

01:17:59.271 --> 01:18:05.372
And, uh, you know, over a handful of years and then I tweaked it again.

01:18:05.881 --> 01:18:06.731
And I was like, I'm done.

01:18:06.731 --> 01:18:07.114
Yeah.

01:18:07.114 --> 01:18:07.881
I'm out.

01:18:07.881 --> 01:18:08.265
Yeah.

01:18:08.265 --> 01:18:12.277
I got, uh, Basketball was my preference more.

01:18:12.287 --> 01:18:18.037
And I played until probably I was 45 or something, but I got like, I broke a rib.

01:18:18.247 --> 01:18:18.766
Oh, no kidding.

01:18:19.567 --> 01:18:20.466
Court injury.

01:18:20.466 --> 01:18:23.306
And I, you know, had some knee challenges and stuff.

01:18:23.306 --> 01:18:26.377
And I was like, you know, basketball is just hard.

01:18:26.447 --> 01:18:27.117
It is hard.

01:18:27.117 --> 01:18:28.377
Soccer is similarly hard.

01:18:28.506 --> 01:18:28.877
Yeah.

01:18:28.926 --> 01:18:29.186
Right.

01:18:29.186 --> 01:18:29.787
There's just a lot of.

01:18:31.577 --> 01:18:39.976
Sustained endurance, uh, which is hard, but also just a lot of bodily collisions that break old people that you don't recover from very fast.

01:18:40.306 --> 01:18:40.957
I miss it.

01:18:41.037 --> 01:18:42.096
I mean, I do.

01:18:42.627 --> 01:18:47.707
And I miss playing basketball, too, because I played a lot, but, um, I can't jump like that.

01:18:47.737 --> 01:18:49.127
Like, the impact bothers me.

01:18:49.127 --> 01:18:53.947
I was in a car accident years ago, and my back has never been the same, so I just can't.

01:18:54.346 --> 01:18:55.997
Like I make Can't do it.

01:18:56.327 --> 01:18:56.476
Yeah.

01:18:56.476 --> 01:18:56.686
Yeah.

01:18:56.686 --> 01:19:00.377
When there's a, there's a leaf on a tree like six inches above my hand.

01:19:00.377 --> 01:19:00.377
Yeah.

01:19:00.382 --> 01:19:02.391
I'm like, I wish I could jump that high these days.

01:19:04.817 --> 01:19:05.027
Yeah.

01:19:05.087 --> 01:19:06.226
Um, alright.

01:19:06.226 --> 01:19:11.027
Well I think I, I feel pretty comfortable that we've kind of done the, the, the life and business journey.

01:19:11.027 --> 01:19:11.117
Cool.

01:19:11.146 --> 01:19:17.157
We're gonna, we're gonna, um, do the, uh, faith family politics segments now.

01:19:17.277 --> 01:19:17.516
Okay.

01:19:17.726 --> 01:19:20.516
Uh, we've talked a fair bit about family so far.

01:19:20.516 --> 01:19:22.436
Do you want to start there or finish there?

01:19:22.436 --> 01:19:23.127
Do you have a preference?

01:19:23.127 --> 01:19:24.747
That's, um.

01:19:26.056 --> 01:19:27.277
No, maybe we finish there.

01:19:27.327 --> 01:19:27.707
Okay.

01:19:28.216 --> 01:19:36.737
Um, haven't, well, I guess, uh, yeah, one week from today, today is the election one week for today.

01:19:36.827 --> 01:19:37.817
Oh, that's crazy.

01:19:38.037 --> 01:19:38.296
Yeah.

01:19:38.367 --> 01:19:46.987
Um, would you like to give a prediction of electoral count for the Trump and Harris presidencies and we'll see who gets closer.

01:19:47.067 --> 01:19:47.917
Man.

01:19:49.777 --> 01:19:50.596
I don't know.

01:19:51.016 --> 01:19:52.377
I, I don't know.

01:19:53.067 --> 01:19:53.766
Don't even want to say?

01:19:53.806 --> 01:19:55.436
I don't, I don't know that I want to say.

01:19:55.506 --> 01:20:02.447
I, I, I mean, I hope, I, I certainly have my hopes, right?

01:20:02.537 --> 01:20:08.596
But, um, You hope, uh, hope for hope and change?

01:20:09.077 --> 01:20:09.487
Joy?

01:20:10.306 --> 01:20:16.747
Um, I mean, I'm, well, yeah, I'm hoping for change, for damn sure.

01:20:16.747 --> 01:20:17.386
But not joy?

01:20:17.947 --> 01:20:18.277
No.

01:20:18.631 --> 01:20:21.051
No, uh, not a, what is it?

01:20:21.051 --> 01:20:29.811
The, uh, re re uh, un unrestrained from the things that have been a new thing that could be if we, anyway.

01:20:30.082 --> 01:20:30.622
Oh shit.

01:20:30.622 --> 01:20:31.131
I don't know.

01:20:32.212 --> 01:20:33.021
That's Kamala.

01:20:33.351 --> 01:20:35.032
That's my poor iation of, yeah.

01:20:35.032 --> 01:20:36.157
Don't, was rambling on?

01:20:36.157 --> 01:20:37.877
Yeah, I'm rambling on answer's.

01:20:37.881 --> 01:20:39.801
No, I, I try not to listen to him.

01:20:40.096 --> 01:20:42.981
Do, do you, uh, do you get politically active?

01:20:43.252 --> 01:20:43.957
Uh, in general?

01:20:43.976 --> 01:20:44.692
No, not terribly.

01:20:44.692 --> 01:20:45.082
Not really.

01:20:45.112 --> 01:20:45.381
No.

01:20:45.381 --> 01:20:47.752
I mean, I, does it matter to your work to the.

01:20:48.421 --> 01:20:52.402
I mean, I assume the oil industry's, it matters.

01:20:52.631 --> 01:20:53.282
It does.

01:20:53.341 --> 01:20:53.851
Absolutely.

01:20:53.862 --> 01:20:58.862
Like how many billions of dollars were invested in that Keystone project before it got ganked?

01:20:58.902 --> 01:20:59.261
Yeah.

01:20:59.912 --> 01:21:00.862
There are so many things.

01:21:00.862 --> 01:21:03.582
I mean, it's maybe hundreds of millions, a lot.

01:21:03.671 --> 01:21:04.082
Yeah.

01:21:04.421 --> 01:21:16.162
I mean, from an oil and gas side, it's just so, it is important and it's, you know, the, the one side is just very.

01:21:16.556 --> 01:21:24.997
Short sighted, in my opinion, uh, um, oil and gas plays into everything that we have.

01:21:25.006 --> 01:21:25.056
Yeah, yeah.

01:21:25.056 --> 01:21:30.981
I've been writing for the last two years that, that, Energy is more like money than money is like money.

01:21:30.992 --> 01:21:31.662
Yeah, fair.

01:21:31.702 --> 01:21:33.152
Cause you can't just print energy.

01:21:33.242 --> 01:21:33.521
Right.

01:21:33.572 --> 01:21:34.862
You got to fucking go get it.

01:21:34.891 --> 01:21:35.181
Right.

01:21:35.231 --> 01:21:40.292
You know, you got to pull it out of the sunlight or you got to pull it out of the water with the hydraulic stuff.

01:21:40.301 --> 01:21:43.952
You got to pull it out of the neutrons with nuclear.

01:21:43.952 --> 01:21:46.077
You got to pull it out of the ground, but you can't just print energy.

01:21:46.167 --> 01:21:46.617
Printed.

01:21:46.657 --> 01:21:47.127
Right.

01:21:47.296 --> 01:21:47.756
Right.

01:21:47.856 --> 01:21:50.726
You know, I still just come back.

01:21:50.787 --> 01:21:53.356
I would just fall back on logic, right?

01:21:53.367 --> 01:21:53.846
For me.

01:21:53.896 --> 01:22:03.016
I mean, it's just, there, there is no, um, do you feel bad about contributing to climate change by allowing all this oil field expansion?

01:22:03.386 --> 01:22:06.006
Um, no.

01:22:06.006 --> 01:22:14.497
And, and knowing, knowing how much the oil and gas industry has put into, um, you know, cleaning itself up.

01:22:14.527 --> 01:22:15.087
Yeah, absolutely.

01:22:15.537 --> 01:22:26.447
And, uh, And then comparing it to other countries that don't, you know, I mean, I, honestly, I think we've done a pretty damn good job.

01:22:26.466 --> 01:22:28.787
I mean, look, the environment is important, right?

01:22:28.806 --> 01:22:29.896
It absolutely is.

01:22:29.896 --> 01:22:32.947
And I'm all for, for protecting it.

01:22:33.006 --> 01:22:43.117
But um, but I think we've done an amazing job, certainly when compared to others in the world.

01:22:44.087 --> 01:22:44.317
Right.

01:22:44.497 --> 01:22:45.266
I mean, well, yeah.

01:22:45.266 --> 01:22:45.266
Yeah.

01:22:45.266 --> 01:22:47.016
All the, the cleaning up.

01:22:47.487 --> 01:22:48.686
That Europe has done.

01:22:48.737 --> 01:22:55.466
And most, a lot of the cleaning up that America has done has been like moving manufacturing to China and India.

01:22:55.537 --> 01:22:56.466
Right, right.

01:22:56.537 --> 01:23:01.096
Well, which share the same water and the same air as we do.

01:23:01.426 --> 01:23:03.106
And so, okay, now we have.

01:23:03.702 --> 01:23:09.091
Same dirty shit, just richer Chinese and Indians and poorer Americans.

01:23:09.162 --> 01:23:10.152
Takes longer to get here.

01:23:10.591 --> 01:23:11.341
Right, right.

01:23:12.042 --> 01:23:16.881
Um, okay, so pragmatic, I guess would be how you would define your politics.

01:23:17.061 --> 01:23:26.872
And I'm, you know, and I would, I would say I'm probably more on the kind of libertarian, you know, mindset, right?

01:23:27.551 --> 01:23:29.542
Just fiscally conservative.

01:23:29.851 --> 01:23:31.372
Over half of my guests are.

01:23:31.391 --> 01:23:39.405
Uh, closet libertarians, or they're not willing to call themselves a libertarian because the libertarians are douchebags and they never do anything useful.

01:23:39.405 --> 01:23:40.282
Well, that's just it.

01:23:40.282 --> 01:23:41.981
Well, but there's no money in it.

01:23:42.112 --> 01:23:47.271
Like, if you're not going to manipulate government for the insiders, then how can that be a sustainable party in America?

01:23:47.351 --> 01:23:48.292
Yeah, for sure.

01:23:48.841 --> 01:23:49.502
And it's, and it just isn't.

01:23:49.731 --> 01:23:55.061
Like, it is a, it is a, it's a two party system because they're all fucking crooked anyway.

01:23:55.122 --> 01:23:55.412
Right.

01:23:55.421 --> 01:23:55.801
As far as I'm concerned.

01:23:55.801 --> 01:23:56.082
That's great.

01:23:56.082 --> 01:23:59.381
So it's the two birds or two, two wings of the same bird.

01:23:59.481 --> 01:23:59.721
Yeah.

01:23:59.952 --> 01:24:00.542
So.

01:24:01.827 --> 01:24:04.287
So you're still holding your nose and voting for Trump.

01:24:04.396 --> 01:24:04.817
Absolutely.

01:24:05.716 --> 01:24:15.527
And wishing that it wouldn't be such a, I think that's my, my exchange student was asking me the other day about the election and whatever, and I bet him 20 bucks.

01:24:15.567 --> 01:24:16.657
Trump's going to get 300.

01:24:16.987 --> 01:24:17.337
Yeah.

01:24:17.856 --> 01:24:18.426
I hope so.

01:24:18.466 --> 01:24:20.346
I think it might happen.

01:24:20.346 --> 01:24:24.056
He doesn't think he thinks I'm smoking crack, but I think it's going to be bigger than most people think.

01:24:24.067 --> 01:24:32.226
Cause I think the Latino vote, the black vote, I mean, it's mostly just the single ladies that are totally in love with Kamala and the college graduates.

01:24:32.966 --> 01:24:42.707
Yeah, it, you know, man, I don't know, there's, there, there are, um, I don't, I don't know.

01:24:42.766 --> 01:24:46.077
I, I, I just don't, I, I sure hope that it goes that way.

01:24:46.127 --> 01:24:50.747
Do you trust the integrity of our elections in America?

01:24:51.296 --> 01:25:07.016
Um, I, I don't know that I do, um, but I, but I don't feel strong enough to really kind of argue.

01:25:07.016 --> 01:25:08.164
You're not going to be out there marching in the streets.

01:25:08.164 --> 01:25:08.947
I just don't know.

01:25:08.966 --> 01:25:09.296
Right?

01:25:09.306 --> 01:25:13.942
Like, like I'd I don't, I don't trust many things that happen in politics.

01:25:14.381 --> 01:25:14.942
I really don't.

01:25:14.942 --> 01:25:20.792
I mean, the, our CIA has certainly gotten really good at rigging other countries elections.

01:25:20.841 --> 01:25:21.502
Yeah, well, sure.

01:25:22.351 --> 01:25:31.792
I mean, so I would assume that just like you've concentrated some knowledge about, about the M& A activity, especially in certain sectors, uh, It's not hard when you live in that world.

01:25:32.072 --> 01:25:33.641
Right, right, exactly.

01:25:33.641 --> 01:25:35.692
You know, here's, here's the ways you can do it.

01:25:35.692 --> 01:25:37.181
Here's the ways you can't get caught.

01:25:37.322 --> 01:25:38.082
Right, right.

01:25:38.341 --> 01:25:38.981
Uh, I don't know.

01:25:39.292 --> 01:25:41.601
And, and they'd be the best at it, right?

01:25:41.652 --> 01:25:45.372
I would assume, like, who's got more experience rigging elections than the CIA?

01:25:45.631 --> 01:25:46.601
I can't think of anybody.

01:25:46.601 --> 01:25:50.542
Yeah, I, um, yeah, I don't know.

01:25:50.851 --> 01:25:51.712
I, I don't know.

01:25:51.782 --> 01:25:55.492
I, I sure hope it goes, it goes that way.

01:25:55.981 --> 01:26:04.801
Um, just for logic sake, fiscal sake, um, policy wise, everything.

01:26:04.851 --> 01:26:07.141
I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016.

01:26:09.021 --> 01:26:09.391
Yeah.

01:26:09.652 --> 01:26:10.021
Did you?

01:26:10.221 --> 01:26:10.511
No.

01:26:10.641 --> 01:26:12.141
No, you voted for the Republican, probably.

01:26:12.341 --> 01:26:12.931
I did.

01:26:13.372 --> 01:26:16.551
Um, and then I voted for Kanye in 2020.

01:26:17.032 --> 01:26:17.631
Did you?

01:26:17.692 --> 01:26:18.261
Yeah, I did.

01:26:18.261 --> 01:26:21.981
Me, and I don't know, I wonder me and 450 other Patriots in Larimer County.

01:26:22.101 --> 01:26:24.292
Well, it may have been my wife may have been one of those.

01:26:24.292 --> 01:26:29.106
Of course we were Weld County, but, um, I don't think it felt like the protest.

01:26:29.721 --> 01:26:31.492
I don't think she voted for Kanye, but I know she didn't.

01:26:32.202 --> 01:26:33.851
Yeah, she doesn't like the two parties either.

01:26:34.242 --> 01:26:35.322
No, it's hard, right?

01:26:35.322 --> 01:26:37.601
Like you're just like, am I throwing my vote away?

01:26:38.202 --> 01:26:38.862
Well, and.

01:26:39.077 --> 01:26:40.367
You can only do what you can do.

01:26:40.417 --> 01:26:42.936
And it's just kind of like, that's why I don't watch the news.

01:26:42.987 --> 01:26:47.697
I, you know, my news comes from Twitter, right.

01:26:48.356 --> 01:26:49.346
Or X or whatever.

01:26:49.837 --> 01:26:51.606
Um, and then, and just.

01:26:52.112 --> 01:26:53.822
You know, being out there, right?

01:26:53.822 --> 01:26:54.122
Yeah, yeah.

01:26:54.122 --> 01:26:56.561
Like you have to watch some.

01:26:56.891 --> 01:26:57.072
Sure.

01:26:57.072 --> 01:27:00.101
But, um, yeah, I, yeah, I listened to that.

01:27:00.402 --> 01:27:02.561
Did you listen to the pod, the Joe Rogan podcast?

01:27:02.561 --> 01:27:02.921
Oh, sure.

01:27:02.921 --> 01:27:03.881
With Trump for sure.

01:27:04.752 --> 01:27:04.932
That was great.

01:27:04.932 --> 01:27:04.934
Yeah.

01:27:04.934 --> 01:27:04.935
Yeah.

01:27:04.935 --> 01:27:05.171
I thought it was good.

01:27:05.981 --> 01:27:06.582
Very interesting.

01:27:06.582 --> 01:27:06.942
Go here.

01:27:06.942 --> 01:27:09.551
He's just such a, he's just so hard.

01:27:09.551 --> 01:27:12.881
He loves people and, and himself, right?

01:27:13.061 --> 01:27:13.332
Oh yeah.

01:27:13.332 --> 01:27:14.561
He's a huge narcissist.

01:27:14.657 --> 01:27:15.077
Egoist.

01:27:15.077 --> 01:27:15.317
Yeah.

01:27:15.322 --> 01:27:15.492
Yeah.

01:27:15.582 --> 01:27:21.101
But he does, he does love, like just talking him, talking about supporting.

01:27:21.337 --> 01:27:26.646
You know, various businesses and, and going the extra mile for somebody like, that's great.

01:27:26.686 --> 01:27:33.176
If you have, if you have the ability to do so, but, but he just needs to shut the hell up.

01:27:33.846 --> 01:27:34.186
Right.

01:27:34.337 --> 01:27:39.487
Um, well, I told somebody, actually, I met one of our newest members just for coffee before this.

01:27:39.487 --> 01:27:54.087
And like the, the, that he drew in Tulsi and RFK Jr and Elon Musk and some of these other kind of Discarded Democrats, um, really?

01:27:54.106 --> 01:27:55.697
And then it didn't chase them off.

01:27:56.167 --> 01:27:56.546
Yeah.

01:27:56.747 --> 01:27:58.747
It kind of has endured me to him a little bit.

01:27:58.747 --> 01:27:59.386
Yeah, for sure.

01:27:59.402 --> 01:28:10.771
Um, so there's something, there's something about him that attracts, you know, people and, and, and obviously repels people.

01:28:10.792 --> 01:28:11.402
Certainly.

01:28:11.462 --> 01:28:12.002
Certainly.

01:28:12.051 --> 01:28:12.431
Oh yeah.

01:28:12.481 --> 01:28:12.792
That's easy.

01:28:12.792 --> 01:28:17.171
How many people with confirmed Trump derangement syndrome do you know?

01:28:18.862 --> 01:28:20.122
Trump derangement syndrome.

01:28:20.202 --> 01:28:20.462
I would say.

01:28:20.462 --> 01:28:22.662
Like where they just can't actually think rationally.

01:28:22.742 --> 01:28:23.212
I get it.

01:28:23.311 --> 01:28:28.811
Um, um, not a, not a ton, honestly.

01:28:28.862 --> 01:28:31.322
I mean, I would say, you know, there's probably a handful, but.

01:28:32.216 --> 01:28:43.667
But most folks are, I mean, yeah, they might be hardcore supporters, but at the end of the day, they're going to be like, yeah, he's a douchebag, but his policies work and, you know, he's allowed.

01:28:43.667 --> 01:28:52.655
No, I'm talking about the, the, the liberals for whom, like, they can't even think that, like, if you would vote for Trump, you're obviously a Nazi, basically, people that think that.

01:28:52.655 --> 01:28:53.556
I don't know.

01:28:53.606 --> 01:28:54.417
I, I don't.

01:28:54.721 --> 01:28:56.811
I don't associate with folks like that.

01:28:57.811 --> 01:29:02.631
I mean, I, I probably know a few, but I don't, I don't, I don't, yeah.

01:29:02.912 --> 01:29:07.152
And I don't, I do not get into those conversations.

01:29:07.192 --> 01:29:07.832
I really don't.

01:29:07.921 --> 01:29:08.181
All right.

01:29:08.471 --> 01:29:08.662
Yeah.

01:29:08.731 --> 01:29:11.841
Um, Faith next, if we're going for the last.

01:29:11.841 --> 01:29:12.082
Yeah.

01:29:12.141 --> 01:29:13.551
Um, we haven't.

01:29:14.176 --> 01:29:15.516
Touched on it hardly so far.

01:29:15.527 --> 01:29:15.667
Yeah.

01:29:15.817 --> 01:29:16.936
Uh, what's your, uh.

01:29:17.606 --> 01:29:23.466
I grew up as a Presbyterian going to First Pres.

01:29:23.546 --> 01:29:24.556
Yeah, right downtown.

01:29:24.787 --> 01:29:27.567
Yeah, they host a Matthews House Community Life Center.

01:29:27.606 --> 01:29:27.886
Oh yeah.

01:29:27.886 --> 01:29:28.306
Thank you.

01:29:28.356 --> 01:29:28.896
First Pres.

01:29:28.966 --> 01:29:29.806
Yeah, you bet.

01:29:30.287 --> 01:29:30.846
Um.

01:29:30.856 --> 01:29:32.087
The Griffiths, they're there.

01:29:32.167 --> 01:29:32.527
So.

01:29:32.777 --> 01:29:33.667
Mike and Annie.

01:29:33.817 --> 01:29:34.337
Oh yeah.

01:29:35.367 --> 01:29:35.806
Um.

01:29:35.846 --> 01:29:36.596
From the Rotary Club.

01:29:36.646 --> 01:29:36.877
Mm hmm.

01:29:38.136 --> 01:29:38.506
Yeah.

01:29:38.646 --> 01:29:38.976
Okay.

01:29:39.006 --> 01:29:39.436
I don't know.

01:29:39.447 --> 01:29:40.627
I'm sure there's some others too, but.

01:29:40.636 --> 01:29:41.516
I'm sure there are.

01:29:41.516 --> 01:29:42.167
I know they go there.

01:29:42.186 --> 01:29:42.497
They're.

01:29:43.662 --> 01:29:45.481
So I grew up going there.

01:29:46.091 --> 01:29:48.221
It was, it was, I don't know how it is now.

01:29:48.292 --> 01:29:50.601
It, I mean, it was fairly structured, right?

01:29:50.612 --> 01:29:54.271
Like we grew up, you know, got to dress nice.

01:29:54.271 --> 01:29:56.221
You got to be there, you got to go to Sunday school.

01:29:56.221 --> 01:29:56.872
You got to do this.

01:29:57.926 --> 01:30:09.697
Um I'm thankful for that, looking back, um, we're not overly, um, your church, family, folks, our family.

01:30:09.697 --> 01:30:09.947
Yeah.

01:30:10.016 --> 01:30:10.947
Your wife, yourself.

01:30:10.966 --> 01:30:11.226
Yep.

01:30:11.377 --> 01:30:11.697
Yep.

01:30:11.997 --> 01:30:17.417
Um, uh, we want to be, I mean, we're, we're very aspirational.

01:30:17.516 --> 01:30:20.207
We're very, um, faith driven.

01:30:20.466 --> 01:30:20.737
Yeah.

01:30:20.766 --> 01:30:21.016
Right.

01:30:21.077 --> 01:30:21.617
I would say.

01:30:22.127 --> 01:30:36.141
Um, and we talk about it, you know, often, and, um, Um, you know, try to make that the center as much as you can kind of, and, and should do it more obviously.

01:30:36.141 --> 01:30:37.462
At a different church than that?

01:30:37.471 --> 01:30:38.332
Or that church still?

01:30:38.341 --> 01:30:38.712
Nope.

01:30:38.872 --> 01:30:40.181
No, no church.

01:30:40.181 --> 01:30:42.141
I wouldn't say that we affiliate with any church.

01:30:42.181 --> 01:30:42.582
All right.

01:30:42.891 --> 01:30:45.101
So you haven't been to services, no Christmas, no Easter?

01:30:45.162 --> 01:30:53.292
Well, yeah, we'll do Christmas, Easter, and we'll go, you know, we'll go to Timberline or we'll go to, um, we'll go to church with my brother and you know, his family.

01:30:53.341 --> 01:30:54.101
Gotcha, gotcha.

01:30:54.192 --> 01:30:55.462
They go to Mill City.

01:30:56.021 --> 01:30:57.372
Um, which is great.

01:30:57.431 --> 01:30:59.652
And, and I love it personally.

01:30:59.662 --> 01:31:03.771
Like I, I love going to any more.

01:31:03.801 --> 01:31:06.431
I love hearing a message, right?

01:31:06.902 --> 01:31:15.471
I don't want to hear, I don't, I'm not there for the singing and the stuff and the, no, no, I don't, all the rest of that.

01:31:15.766 --> 01:31:19.037
I don't want any of that, so I just want you just plug in a good podcast.

01:31:19.037 --> 01:31:23.867
I, with some good teaching and good like message, but I'd like to be there in person.

01:31:23.872 --> 01:31:24.011
Right.

01:31:24.032 --> 01:31:24.252
So.

01:31:24.377 --> 01:31:24.856
Right, right.

01:31:24.917 --> 01:31:27.976
You know, I don't mind that stuff, but I could, yeah, I could.

01:31:28.037 --> 01:31:33.396
Well, I mean, a lot of churches and Timberline being one of'em, like I just go for the band.

01:31:33.516 --> 01:31:33.787
Yeah.

01:31:33.787 --> 01:31:34.087
Shit.

01:31:34.087 --> 01:31:34.386
Yeah.

01:31:34.386 --> 01:31:34.387
Yeah.

01:31:34.393 --> 01:31:35.016
They're awesome.

01:31:36.186 --> 01:31:36.457
right?

01:31:36.457 --> 01:31:37.356
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:31:37.447 --> 01:31:41.436
I mean, and I can see that, unfortunately, I, I, I'm, I'm kidding about that.

01:31:41.436 --> 01:31:43.146
But yeah, like, unfortunately, that's.

01:31:44.006 --> 01:31:46.596
Part of some things is the show.

01:31:46.646 --> 01:31:46.896
Yep.

01:31:47.136 --> 01:31:47.997
Yep, for sure.

01:31:48.247 --> 01:31:48.436
Okay.

01:31:48.447 --> 01:31:51.622
And It, you know, it's, um, Older your kids now?

01:31:52.292 --> 01:31:53.141
Twelve and eight.

01:31:53.442 --> 01:31:53.912
Okay.

01:31:54.002 --> 01:31:54.282
Yeah.

01:31:54.402 --> 01:32:08.122
So, and part of the reason why we didn't get kind of deep into a church, I think, and we started, you know, going back when we were first married and even before that, um, we were going to church down here.

01:32:08.301 --> 01:32:08.962
Um.

01:32:09.657 --> 01:32:29.856
Grace Church, which is, used to be, now it's like, Kevin Simmons, Mountain View, yeah Kevin Simmons was there, I've known him forever, yeah he's great, he's great, um, yeah, I'm part of the crossing, which is part of the Mountain View, and that was their OG location, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, perfect, yeah, so I used to go to that church, literally like 2002, 2003, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:32:30.476 --> 01:32:32.537
Um, no, we've really enjoyed it.

01:32:32.546 --> 01:32:40.926
It, I think when we had kids, you know, when they were young, or at least when our son was young, it was, you know, more and more difficult to go.

01:32:41.356 --> 01:32:51.207
And then, um, and then we tried to go kind of early on in his younger years, I would say, you know, between four and eight or whatever.

01:32:51.627 --> 01:32:53.686
Um, he just really didn't like it.

01:32:53.907 --> 01:33:02.277
And so we didn't want him to, and I get it, like, I didn't like going to church when I was a kid either, but, um, Now he's a 12 year old now?

01:33:02.277 --> 01:33:02.947
He's 12, yeah.

01:33:03.296 --> 01:33:05.216
And then, um, and an 8 year old too.

01:33:05.247 --> 01:33:06.577
An 8 year old girl, yeah.

01:33:06.577 --> 01:33:09.346
So, so do they have any experience?

01:33:09.377 --> 01:33:15.186
Like, aside from like Christmas and Easter with brother sister stuff, or do you guys pay a little attention at home?

01:33:15.787 --> 01:33:18.667
Oh yeah, we, we pay attention at home there.

01:33:18.676 --> 01:33:23.301
Grandparents are good about it and, and we try to be at home and, Yeah.

01:33:23.301 --> 01:33:23.407
Yeah.

01:33:24.947 --> 01:33:33.146
You know, we just try to instill the the right way to live yeah like so my sense is you haven't really Rejected faith.

01:33:33.337 --> 01:33:34.556
Oh, no, absolutely not.

01:33:34.806 --> 01:33:40.067
Not at all, but you haven't really Been intentional about building a faith community.

01:33:40.686 --> 01:33:41.317
Fair point.

01:33:41.556 --> 01:33:41.796
Yeah.

01:33:42.006 --> 01:33:42.216
Okay.

01:33:42.277 --> 01:33:42.546
Yeah.

01:33:42.846 --> 01:33:43.146
Alright.

01:33:43.506 --> 01:33:50.226
Um, and, and I don't know, it's kind of like one of the, one of the things, this is gonna sound really bad.

01:33:50.377 --> 01:33:50.886
I hope so.

01:33:50.917 --> 01:33:52.032
Um, hope that's what good means.

01:33:52.032 --> 01:33:54.457
The ratings, hope no.

01:33:54.457 --> 01:34:07.016
One of the things that's tough is, is going to, going to church and like doing a, a church, get together a barbecue after, gotta go make small talk with all these people and stuff.

01:34:07.016 --> 01:34:07.377
I don't.

01:34:07.827 --> 01:34:11.966
I don't stay in touch with the friends that I have, right?

01:34:12.016 --> 01:34:16.277
And, and, and in some cases, I feel badly about that, right?

01:34:16.327 --> 01:34:19.567
Like, I want to be close with the people I want to be close with.

01:34:19.886 --> 01:34:23.087
I don't want to go, and it's not that I don't want to be friends.

01:34:23.096 --> 01:34:24.256
Like, don't get me wrong.

01:34:24.266 --> 01:34:26.686
Like I, I want to be friends, but.

01:34:27.997 --> 01:34:37.426
I don't, I'd rather spend my time like, you know, with friends that I've known for 25 years that I don't get to see very often, you know what I mean?

01:34:37.476 --> 01:34:39.295
And I don't do that enough.

01:34:39.295 --> 01:34:39.907
I'm already under engaging with them.

01:34:40.146 --> 01:34:40.606
Absolutely.

01:34:40.617 --> 01:34:41.176
Yeah, yeah.

01:34:41.256 --> 01:34:43.186
And, and so that's always a tough thing.

01:34:43.516 --> 01:34:50.087
I think that's a really challenging thing is like, especially for people that are, you know, Not currently engaged in a church community.

01:34:50.197 --> 01:34:50.686
Yeah.

01:34:50.896 --> 01:34:55.216
To get engaged and then like, Okay, now I have to make room in my life for one more thing.

01:34:55.226 --> 01:34:56.237
Something else, yeah.

01:34:56.487 --> 01:35:27.386
And, I mean, to be real about it, Jill and I, So, so, we're, this is, uh, I'll, I probably shouldn't talk about this either, but we're part of this, this thing called, uh, I forget even what it's called, but Samaritan's Ministry or something, is like our health co op, you know, and for me and Jill, it's six or something hundred dollars a month, and sure, but they'll, if you need a heart transplant, like people, Christians from all across the country will send you checks until you're made whole.

01:35:27.447 --> 01:35:27.856
Yeah, yeah.

01:35:28.256 --> 01:35:35.856
And, uh, but part of it, part of the requirement is that you have to be part of a life group with your church.

01:35:36.777 --> 01:35:44.471
And I'm great friends with the life group leader that we've been to, like, Four times, six times maybe in the last year.

01:35:45.112 --> 01:35:45.332
Yeah.

01:35:45.372 --> 01:35:48.011
You know, we just, we're busy.

01:35:48.271 --> 01:35:48.962
Jill's busy.

01:35:48.962 --> 01:35:50.192
Loco's busy.

01:35:50.242 --> 01:35:51.292
Sunday afternoon.

01:35:52.471 --> 01:35:59.992
And technically we need to have Matt sign off on the fact that we're an active part of his life group, but we haven't been.

01:36:00.192 --> 01:36:00.542
Yeah.

01:36:00.771 --> 01:36:01.292
Yeah.

01:36:02.301 --> 01:36:04.341
And so I get it.

01:36:04.511 --> 01:36:04.771
Yeah.

01:36:04.792 --> 01:36:06.702
I guess is what I would say more than anything.

01:36:06.702 --> 01:36:11.952
And as long as you're being intentional about what is real, especially in a world where.

01:36:12.921 --> 01:36:13.902
Did you say you're homeschooled?

01:36:14.112 --> 01:36:14.542
No.

01:36:14.572 --> 01:36:14.931
You're homeschooled.

01:36:14.942 --> 01:36:15.322
No.

01:36:15.481 --> 01:36:32.631
So especially in a world where what is real is so much under question, I think being a part of a community can really help reinforce, you know, just to put a little layer of insurance against having a they them conversation with your daughter all of a sudden.

01:36:32.702 --> 01:36:33.782
That you don't expect.

01:36:33.782 --> 01:36:36.122
Yeah, no, that's, that's fair.

01:36:36.212 --> 01:36:36.992
That is fair.

01:36:37.612 --> 01:36:42.292
And um, luckily, so we live in Windsor.

01:36:42.502 --> 01:36:45.112
Oh, that's, and yeah, it matters.

01:36:45.167 --> 01:36:48.591
And, and the kids, you know, our kids go to public school.

01:36:48.712 --> 01:36:55.782
Um, and I we're really thankful for that and the community there and yeah.

01:36:56.261 --> 01:36:58.091
You know, kinda the mindset.

01:36:58.091 --> 01:37:00.431
They're 20 years behind the, the.

01:37:01.226 --> 01:37:01.707
Yeah.

01:37:01.716 --> 01:37:02.587
Mind virus.

01:37:02.827 --> 01:37:03.106
Yes.

01:37:03.117 --> 01:37:03.457
Hopefully.

01:37:03.636 --> 01:37:04.117
Fair.

01:37:04.176 --> 01:37:04.587
Yeah.

01:37:04.827 --> 01:37:05.516
Absolutely.

01:37:06.046 --> 01:37:06.256
So.

01:37:06.256 --> 01:37:11.747
And so it's, um, it, it feels, you know, good over there.

01:37:11.787 --> 01:37:12.266
So far so good.

01:37:12.266 --> 01:37:14.216
But there's still, there's still some of that shit.

01:37:14.287 --> 01:37:14.537
Well sure.

01:37:14.766 --> 01:37:16.466
Like in middle school or whatever.

01:37:16.466 --> 01:37:16.846
That's how it goes.

01:37:17.337 --> 01:37:17.527
Yeah.

01:37:17.537 --> 01:37:18.837
So that was faith.

01:37:19.237 --> 01:37:19.527
Yeah.

01:37:19.527 --> 01:37:23.627
Um, oh, and by the way, Windsor Community Church is one of the branches of our church.

01:37:23.697 --> 01:37:24.006
Okay.

01:37:24.016 --> 01:37:24.750
They lead over on the east side.

01:37:24.750 --> 01:37:25.027
Where is that?

01:37:25.027 --> 01:37:26.056
I feel like we've looked at it.

01:37:26.056 --> 01:37:27.167
Automation way.

01:37:27.247 --> 01:37:27.627
Okay.

01:37:27.627 --> 01:37:27.766
Yeah.

01:37:27.766 --> 01:37:29.277
Or somewhere right over there.

01:37:29.277 --> 01:37:29.447
Yeah.

01:37:29.447 --> 01:37:29.617
Yeah.

01:37:29.846 --> 01:37:33.197
In innovation, I don't know, kind of on the east side.

01:37:34.676 --> 01:37:36.957
But yeah, it's like a nice job.

01:37:37.367 --> 01:37:41.877
I, uh, I had somebody that had something crawling on him during the podcast yet.

01:37:41.877 --> 01:37:44.336
I was like, I just didn't want to break it.

01:37:44.336 --> 01:38:05.867
Um, but, but anyway, we're, so we're like a, We're like Presbyterians, but with no dogma and no structure to speak of and show up in your short pants and your t shirt if you want to Yeah, but still kind of the look like on the Calvinist versus not sure in that Presbyterian space and it's It's Windsor, right?

01:38:05.997 --> 01:38:07.516
Well, the Mountain View was that.

01:38:07.936 --> 01:38:08.596
Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:38:08.657 --> 01:38:10.837
Yeah, so Mountain View was the base route.

01:38:11.356 --> 01:38:11.827
Uh huh.

01:38:11.917 --> 01:38:18.806
Um, and now there's, you know, a couple, few churches in North Carolina, and a handful around Northern Colorado, and ten in Czechoslovakia.

01:38:18.957 --> 01:38:20.657
But what's the one in Windsor called?

01:38:20.676 --> 01:38:21.796
Uh, Windsor Community Church.

01:38:21.806 --> 01:38:22.606
Community Church.

01:38:22.657 --> 01:38:23.096
Yep.

01:38:23.176 --> 01:38:30.997
And that was actually, I think that was actually, no, that was planted by, Mountain view.

01:38:31.247 --> 01:38:31.646
Okay.

01:38:31.917 --> 01:38:40.056
Um, and then there was a Greeley church for a while, and then our church, The Crossing, was planted by the Greeley church that has since dissolved.

01:38:40.197 --> 01:38:40.567
Okay.

01:38:40.846 --> 01:38:42.417
So, but we're still part of that network.

01:38:42.417 --> 01:38:43.917
They share pastor training and stuff.

01:38:43.917 --> 01:38:44.117
Sure.

01:38:44.296 --> 01:38:44.457
Yeah.

01:38:44.457 --> 01:38:48.846
And they, you know, they have that, I don't know if you know, but they have that model where there isn't one pastor.

01:38:49.306 --> 01:38:49.686
Oh, yeah.

01:38:49.766 --> 01:38:53.391
There's like three, And then a couple of lay pastors usually.

01:38:53.391 --> 01:38:59.572
So there's not like one person that the whole church thinks of as like this, the dude guy.

01:38:59.622 --> 01:38:59.981
Yeah.

01:38:59.981 --> 01:39:07.601
And if he gets caught, the one that talks to God into the church, secretary Inc, it's like ruins the whole church, right?

01:39:07.601 --> 01:39:10.412
Like that's, yeah, people are just so corruptible.

01:39:10.452 --> 01:39:13.171
And so that's part of why I love my church is because they have peers.

01:39:13.962 --> 01:39:18.902
Like here's two other pastors that are paid and two other lay pastors that can call you out when you're being a jerk.

01:39:19.051 --> 01:39:19.412
Dipshit.

01:39:19.471 --> 01:39:19.902
Right.

01:39:20.032 --> 01:39:20.332
Right.

01:39:20.362 --> 01:39:22.582
You know, or getting too egotistical.

01:39:22.591 --> 01:39:22.971
Yeah.

01:39:23.221 --> 01:39:25.912
You know, cause ego's a hard thing to battle.

01:39:25.942 --> 01:39:26.082
Yeah.

01:39:26.082 --> 01:39:27.171
When everybody thinks you're cool.

01:39:27.181 --> 01:39:27.822
For sure.

01:39:28.252 --> 01:39:28.641
For sure.

01:39:28.771 --> 01:39:29.122
I mean.

01:39:29.341 --> 01:39:29.822
Yeah, I know.

01:39:29.832 --> 01:39:30.202
Look at me.

01:39:30.212 --> 01:39:31.462
You're obviously struggling.

01:39:31.492 --> 01:39:32.292
I struggle.

01:39:32.292 --> 01:39:35.072
Ha ha ha ha ha.

01:39:35.351 --> 01:39:36.641
Let's talk about your family.

01:39:36.957 --> 01:39:37.407
Yeah.

01:39:37.527 --> 01:39:42.917
Uh, you, uh, your wife, why did she say yes to the second invite for a date?

01:39:43.037 --> 01:39:44.106
Good question.

01:39:44.186 --> 01:39:48.726
Um, no, we, we've known each other since, um, junior high.

01:39:48.886 --> 01:39:49.926
Oh, okay.

01:39:49.936 --> 01:39:51.207
We both went to Blevins.

01:39:51.356 --> 01:39:51.777
All right.

01:39:51.787 --> 01:39:54.327
Um, and we both went to Rocky Mountain.

01:39:54.447 --> 01:39:54.886
Nice.

01:39:54.976 --> 01:39:57.606
Um, and we weren't, we actually tried to date.

01:39:57.936 --> 01:40:03.157
And kind of senior year of high school, but we were on separate paths, right?

01:40:03.197 --> 01:40:05.537
Like she was on the good path and I was on the other path.

01:40:05.596 --> 01:40:07.016
You were a bad kid and she was a good kid.

01:40:07.027 --> 01:40:11.567
I wasn't a bad kid, but I just wasn't on the path yet.

01:40:11.837 --> 01:40:12.907
I had found a path.

01:40:12.947 --> 01:40:15.287
It wasn't that bad.

01:40:15.287 --> 01:40:17.921
I actually had a couple of girls in college that were like.

01:40:18.862 --> 01:40:26.731
I really like you, Kurt, but you're a little too libertarian in your behavior for my mom to want to meet you.

01:40:26.742 --> 01:40:27.962
Yeah, fair, fair.

01:40:28.752 --> 01:40:32.332
Um, so we tried and we were like, nah, this isn't gonna work.

01:40:33.002 --> 01:40:41.332
And then, um, she went to CU and I stayed in Fort Collins and went to CSU and then we tried a year later.

01:40:43.271 --> 01:40:51.572
Um, and that was very short lived and we're like, yeah, no, nothing's changed.

01:40:52.462 --> 01:41:00.242
In fact, um, me and a buddy had, well, what would she have said to her girlfriend after that was over that second chapter?

01:41:01.112 --> 01:41:06.612
Um, you know, Like, what were her criticisms about you?

01:41:06.612 --> 01:41:21.652
Probably the same thing, like, just, like, eh, he hasn't changed, and we're not, you know, like, I was still partying and whatever, and And then all of a sudden you strike it rich and start making 150 grand a year in the mortgage wholesale world.

01:41:22.502 --> 01:41:24.872
It was, uh And she didn't give a shit about that either.

01:41:24.912 --> 01:41:26.631
No, she did not.

01:41:26.671 --> 01:41:27.072
The opposite.

01:41:27.072 --> 01:41:29.582
She's, um Yeah.

01:41:29.981 --> 01:41:45.192
No, honestly, it was, so we tried that, um, you know, spring semester, freshman year, and then didn't see each other again for, and then ran into each other randomly at what was then Manos, which is now Colindale.

01:41:45.261 --> 01:41:45.572
Yeah.

01:41:45.572 --> 01:41:46.641
Or now, uh, pots.

01:41:46.662 --> 01:41:46.902
Yeah.

01:41:46.902 --> 01:41:47.292
Yeah.

01:41:47.872 --> 01:41:48.841
And we were there.

01:41:49.301 --> 01:41:49.721
What's that?

01:41:49.752 --> 01:41:50.462
Scott Manning.

01:41:51.032 --> 01:41:54.390
Um, It was Manning, was the last name, I think it was.

01:41:54.390 --> 01:41:55.971
I don't know, I just know him by Manno.

01:41:55.971 --> 01:41:57.712
Yeah, yeah, no, anyway.

01:41:57.721 --> 01:42:00.532
He's still around, but now Kevin Cheesley owns it.

01:42:00.902 --> 01:42:01.101
Okay.

01:42:01.101 --> 01:42:05.902
Um, so, um.

01:42:06.002 --> 01:42:10.442
Yeah, but it was Manno because of like a key employee that had been around the POTS organization forever.

01:42:10.471 --> 01:42:12.021
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so.

01:42:12.447 --> 01:42:16.277
Um, so we were there drinking before a softball game, right?

01:42:16.806 --> 01:42:18.287
And this is nine years later.

01:42:18.287 --> 01:42:21.016
So we would have been, we would have been late twenties.

01:42:21.976 --> 01:42:30.367
And yeah, and I lean over to a buddy of mine, um, Matt, different Matt, um, the one who started the mortgage thing together.

01:42:30.726 --> 01:42:41.287
Um, cause he and I went to, grew up together, went to elementary, you know, junior high school, um, and I was like, there's Sarah and she's drinking.

01:42:41.287 --> 01:42:41.356
Yeah.

01:42:41.606 --> 01:42:42.707
I'm going to go talk to her.

01:42:43.436 --> 01:42:45.667
And she was there on like an FSC kind of thing.

01:42:46.146 --> 01:42:56.396
And so we went to lunch for like six months and then like once a month, like, no, like once, probably once a week, maybe every kind of thing.

01:42:56.396 --> 01:42:56.837
All right.

01:42:57.006 --> 01:43:01.667
Um, you were like slowly working your way back to her good graces in some ways.

01:43:01.737 --> 01:43:05.806
Um, and then, and this was in my, you know, mid, late twenties.

01:43:05.806 --> 01:43:06.646
And right.

01:43:06.686 --> 01:43:09.487
Um, why was she still on the market?

01:43:10.832 --> 01:43:12.742
Um, good question.

01:43:12.771 --> 01:43:13.502
That's a direct question.

01:43:13.502 --> 01:43:14.641
Yeah, good question.

01:43:15.042 --> 01:43:18.372
Um, you know, she had, she had traveled around.

01:43:18.412 --> 01:43:29.032
I think she had, you know, she had dated a number of, a number of guys and, and never really, you know, had enough of a connection, I think.

01:43:29.091 --> 01:43:30.471
Um, but.

01:43:30.721 --> 01:43:34.391
You know, she had traveled, she, she left when she got out of school.

01:43:34.431 --> 01:43:36.381
She was filling her cup, kind of was experienced.

01:43:36.412 --> 01:43:42.942
Moved to New York City and taught in the Bronx and, you know, came back and taught here.

01:43:42.942 --> 01:43:47.442
And when she was in school, she did a semester abroad in Argentina and all this stuff.

01:43:47.442 --> 01:43:49.537
So she had all this like life experience, right?

01:43:49.537 --> 01:43:50.532
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:43:50.771 --> 01:43:58.021
Meanwhile, I'm stuck in, you know, Fort Collins, like, Drinking with my high school buddies, um, still.

01:43:58.671 --> 01:44:04.792
Bumping your way through this, uh, like, Not succeeding, uh, venture.

01:44:05.042 --> 01:44:08.027
Like, that's an interesting thing to me, is like, She kind of caught me.

01:44:08.457 --> 01:44:10.577
Recaught you right.

01:44:10.577 --> 01:44:13.277
As you went into one of your least successful, yeah.

01:44:13.277 --> 01:44:14.516
You were like a loser.

01:44:14.636 --> 01:44:17.367
When she, yeah, no offense.

01:44:17.367 --> 01:44:24.277
Um, yeah, she caught me when I was a loser and, um, and, and.

01:44:24.877 --> 01:44:26.426
I mean, it, and it was great.

01:44:26.457 --> 01:44:29.867
And she's, she's just such an awesome person.

01:44:30.006 --> 01:44:32.827
Like, yeah, I can't, I can't say it.

01:44:32.827 --> 01:44:33.856
Sorry to grill you on that whole topic.

01:44:33.867 --> 01:44:34.957
No, you're, you're good.

01:44:35.396 --> 01:44:37.756
Um, but it was an interesting thing to me as I went through there.

01:44:37.766 --> 01:44:43.546
So yeah, so then we got married, um, kind of, um, we got married in oh nine.

01:44:44.127 --> 01:44:48.356
Um, so we were 30, you know, I guess 30.

01:44:48.537 --> 01:44:49.356
Thirty, thirty one.

01:44:49.356 --> 01:44:49.947
So, yeah.

01:44:50.226 --> 01:44:52.476
And your kids, you said, are eight and twelve now?

01:44:52.537 --> 01:44:52.766
Yep.

01:44:53.176 --> 01:44:56.896
Um, we do a one word description of the children here.

01:44:56.907 --> 01:44:58.886
Do you, do you remember that part of the, uh, email?

01:44:58.896 --> 01:44:59.306
I do.

01:44:59.587 --> 01:44:59.987
I do.

01:45:00.117 --> 01:45:01.976
Do you have a word for each of your children?

01:45:01.976 --> 01:45:02.256
Um.

01:45:02.256 --> 01:45:04.617
And a name, age, and word.

01:45:04.657 --> 01:45:06.256
Yeah, little, you can expand from there.

01:45:06.266 --> 01:45:08.487
Yeah, so Emmett is my oldest.

01:45:08.497 --> 01:45:08.516
Um.

01:45:08.527 --> 01:45:09.697
I like that name, by the way.

01:45:09.756 --> 01:45:10.487
And, thank you.

01:45:10.497 --> 01:45:10.766
Solid.

01:45:10.787 --> 01:45:11.676
And, um.

01:45:12.261 --> 01:45:15.462
I personally like to say that he's named after Dr.

01:45:15.462 --> 01:45:17.192
Emmett Brown from Back to the Future.

01:45:17.542 --> 01:45:17.912
I like it.

01:45:18.362 --> 01:45:18.771
I like it.

01:45:18.872 --> 01:45:19.402
A hero.

01:45:19.442 --> 01:45:22.612
And actually, yeah, my favorite movie.

01:45:23.832 --> 01:45:24.372
I like it.

01:45:25.002 --> 01:45:32.692
But actually it was, we were going back and forth and names and came across it and, you know, it just clicked.

01:45:33.782 --> 01:45:38.926
Anyway, um, His word would be intuitive, probably.

01:45:38.926 --> 01:45:39.497
Yeah, yeah.

01:45:39.546 --> 01:45:42.186
Um, he has always had that.

01:45:42.346 --> 01:45:42.716
Yeah.

01:45:42.987 --> 01:45:48.356
Um, he's, he's very likable, very social.

01:45:48.367 --> 01:45:51.947
You've developed those things, but it's more intuitive for him even still.

01:45:51.966 --> 01:45:54.476
He is intuitive himself.

01:45:54.476 --> 01:45:54.747
Yeah, yeah.

01:45:54.837 --> 01:46:09.197
Like, um, but he is, you know, he's, he's always, Older than he's, he's, uh, emotionally, a 25 year old, 12 year old older gets it.

01:46:11.087 --> 01:46:14.896
And yeah, he's, he's great.

01:46:15.106 --> 01:46:15.367
Cool.

01:46:15.447 --> 01:46:16.016
He's great.

01:46:16.106 --> 01:46:16.527
I dig it.

01:46:16.617 --> 01:46:19.976
And Daphne is our girl and she's eight.

01:46:20.216 --> 01:46:22.037
Is it wrong that I think about Scooby Doo?

01:46:22.096 --> 01:46:22.627
Nope.

01:46:22.766 --> 01:46:26.457
Um, but, but she's named after Daphne from Frasier.

01:46:26.716 --> 01:46:27.327
Oh, sure.

01:46:27.337 --> 01:46:27.686
Yeah.

01:46:27.806 --> 01:46:30.067
So, um, and that's legit.

01:46:30.146 --> 01:46:30.506
But.

01:46:32.752 --> 01:46:37.881
So Daphne, what would be the word?

01:46:39.242 --> 01:46:46.101
Um, man, I would say social, but I don't think that does it justice.

01:46:46.761 --> 01:46:48.761
She is butterfly.

01:46:49.061 --> 01:46:49.811
Yeah.

01:46:49.862 --> 01:46:52.261
She's just, she loves everybody.

01:46:52.271 --> 01:46:57.841
She's very, um, Emotionally connected to every situation.

01:46:57.851 --> 01:46:59.771
She gets along with everybody.

01:46:59.782 --> 01:47:01.532
She's very kind.

01:47:02.271 --> 01:47:10.332
I mean, that's why people love you is because you love them a lot of times, you know, yeah, she's, she's something I'd like it.

01:47:10.341 --> 01:47:11.832
So she's like a second grader or something.

01:47:11.962 --> 01:47:11.981
Yeah.

01:47:11.981 --> 01:47:13.832
She's in third grade, third grader.

01:47:13.832 --> 01:47:20.582
Um, anything more you want to say nice about, sorry, what was your wife's name?

01:47:20.582 --> 01:47:22.851
Sarah, Sarah with an H no H H.

01:47:22.971 --> 01:47:23.242
Okay.

01:47:23.252 --> 01:47:23.742
She's an H.

01:47:23.801 --> 01:47:24.351
Always better.

01:47:24.612 --> 01:47:29.981
Um, You know, no, I mean, she's, she's done so much.

01:47:29.992 --> 01:47:34.311
She's, you know, she, she was a teacher for a long time.

01:47:34.971 --> 01:47:45.631
Um, she stayed home with, um, you know, from kind of the, after Emmett's, Emmett's first year she taught and then she stayed home, you know, after that.

01:47:45.792 --> 01:47:50.771
So I'm very thankful for, for that opportunity.

01:47:50.851 --> 01:47:52.112
And then she went back to school.

01:47:52.256 --> 01:47:56.436
back to school, um, a year ago, I guess.

01:47:56.787 --> 01:47:58.287
Kind of teaching when the kids are away.

01:47:58.737 --> 01:47:59.087
Yeah.

01:47:59.136 --> 01:48:01.676
Well, she's, she actually went back as a librarian.

01:48:01.726 --> 01:48:01.896
Oh.

01:48:01.907 --> 01:48:03.396
Which she always wanted to do.

01:48:03.396 --> 01:48:03.997
Oh, that's fun.

01:48:04.046 --> 01:48:05.006
Um, which is great.

01:48:05.006 --> 01:48:08.997
So she's a librarian at an elementary school, new elementary school in Johnstown.

01:48:09.067 --> 01:48:09.346
I dig it.

01:48:09.346 --> 01:48:09.877
Which is great.

01:48:09.947 --> 01:48:10.726
Yeah, she loves it.

01:48:11.087 --> 01:48:14.287
Um, anything else you want to say either about kids?

01:48:14.671 --> 01:48:18.011
Your folks, her folks, family in general, the importance of it.

01:48:18.011 --> 01:48:19.221
You know, her folks are here.

01:48:19.341 --> 01:48:28.242
Um, I mean, I think I'd, I'd, uh, well, I certainly want to mention that part of the family, you know, still family.

01:48:28.261 --> 01:48:32.421
So she grew up local as well, obviously Blevins and Rocky and whatever.

01:48:32.481 --> 01:48:32.752
Yep.

01:48:32.921 --> 01:48:33.202
Yep.

01:48:33.261 --> 01:48:33.971
Lobo nation.

01:48:33.981 --> 01:48:34.971
Um, that's right.

01:48:35.122 --> 01:48:35.612
That's right.

01:48:36.622 --> 01:48:43.077
So I, I did a little talk thing one time for, it was like, we're four-Way test ethics kind of stuff.

01:48:43.077 --> 01:48:44.457
Rotary Club involved.

01:48:44.997 --> 01:48:45.027
Okay.

01:48:45.027 --> 01:48:45.117
Yep.

01:48:45.117 --> 01:48:46.917
But also like career stuff.

01:48:47.096 --> 01:48:47.426
Mm-Hmm.

01:48:47.817 --> 01:48:55.766
And, uh, they gave all of us volunteers for that thing, like a, a, a rocks glass like a whiskey.

01:48:56.037 --> 01:48:56.756
Oh, no kidding.

01:48:56.817 --> 01:48:56.936
Yeah.

01:48:56.936 --> 01:48:58.766
That was their thanks for That's great.

01:48:58.766 --> 01:49:00.176
Coming and volunteering for the day.

01:49:00.176 --> 01:49:00.237
Yeah.

01:49:00.657 --> 01:49:06.106
And they're like, as, as I passed it out, I was like, this is a nice, looks like a whiskey glass kind of.

01:49:06.527 --> 01:49:08.567
Because it was like, well, we're saying it's a water glass.

01:49:08.567 --> 01:49:08.896
And I was like.

01:49:09.381 --> 01:49:10.752
Well, I'm going to use it for my whiskey.

01:49:12.412 --> 01:49:13.341
You should use that.

01:49:13.372 --> 01:49:15.381
I, well, I have it at my house.

01:49:15.381 --> 01:49:16.051
I should probably.

01:49:17.021 --> 01:49:19.981
Uh, but anyway, that was my, one of my experience with Lobo Nation.

01:49:19.992 --> 01:49:20.351
Yeah.

01:49:20.362 --> 01:49:21.641
Lobo Nation for sure.

01:49:22.131 --> 01:49:25.002
Um, so your in laws been around?

01:49:25.292 --> 01:49:26.591
So they live here in Fort Collins.

01:49:26.591 --> 01:49:28.381
They've been around for a long time.

01:49:28.452 --> 01:49:31.992
Um, they, you know, they raised two great girls.

01:49:31.992 --> 01:49:34.051
They're, they're amazing people.

01:49:34.171 --> 01:49:40.582
Um, they've got a great friend network and, um, they're just, they're really Plugged in, which is great.

01:49:40.662 --> 01:49:41.582
We're very thankful.

01:49:41.582 --> 01:49:45.971
They're close with, you know, us and the grandkids and Sarah's sister.

01:49:45.971 --> 01:49:48.591
She has a sister that lives in Littleton with her husband.

01:49:48.591 --> 01:49:49.721
And they got young kids too.

01:49:49.731 --> 01:49:50.492
They're two kids.

01:49:50.492 --> 01:49:50.652
Yeah.

01:49:50.662 --> 01:49:55.311
They have two boys that are older than ours, but, um, yeah, so it was less.

01:49:55.412 --> 01:49:55.692
Yeah.

01:49:55.761 --> 01:49:56.002
Yeah.

01:49:56.011 --> 01:49:56.591
So it was great.

01:49:56.902 --> 01:49:57.032
Yeah.

01:49:57.162 --> 01:50:00.591
Um, finally the loco experience.

01:50:01.101 --> 01:50:01.572
Oh yeah.

01:50:01.612 --> 01:50:04.162
Your crazy experience that you'd like to share with our listeners.

01:50:04.171 --> 01:50:08.311
So it's probably, I had to think about this, but it's.

01:50:08.752 --> 01:50:14.311
It's probably less about me and more just crazy, but it plays into the family and the faith thing.

01:50:15.341 --> 01:50:17.742
And it, and it's got a couple of parts.

01:50:17.912 --> 01:50:18.212
All right.

01:50:18.212 --> 01:50:24.381
So I'll share, you know, kind of the big picture and hope my wife doesn't get pissed about it, but I don't think she will.

01:50:24.881 --> 01:50:31.832
Um, so before we have, so we lost, uh, we lost a baby before Emmett was born.

01:50:31.872 --> 01:50:32.152
Okay.

01:50:32.192 --> 01:50:32.431
Right?

01:50:32.702 --> 01:50:36.032
And, and we lost one after he was born before death.

01:50:36.032 --> 01:50:37.381
Dylan, I miscarried a couple of times too.

01:50:37.381 --> 01:50:37.771
Yeah.

01:50:37.952 --> 01:50:54.551
So, um, but then we finally got pregnant with, with Emmett and, um, and you know, he was, he was probably three, you know, two late twos, three at this time.

01:50:54.662 --> 01:50:59.261
And we were pregnant with death and, uh, or no, sorry.

01:50:59.282 --> 01:50:59.551
Sorry.

01:50:59.551 --> 01:50:59.822
Sorry.

01:50:59.822 --> 01:51:03.021
I'm going to back up because I gotta go, I gotta go to the other one.

01:51:03.481 --> 01:51:06.577
Um, So, Oh, wait a sec.

01:51:07.417 --> 01:51:08.646
You said you miscarried between the two.

01:51:08.646 --> 01:51:10.067
I'm getting all, I'm getting all confused.

01:51:10.317 --> 01:51:11.447
Yeah, which we did.

01:51:11.907 --> 01:51:14.367
Um, but okay.

01:51:14.686 --> 01:51:17.617
So, so fast forward Emmett's three.

01:51:17.917 --> 01:51:18.207
Okay.

01:51:18.667 --> 01:51:23.136
And I had gone to the grocery store and, or I went to Home Depot.

01:51:23.136 --> 01:51:31.516
Actually, I came back and, um, we didn't know that we could get pregnant with Daphne at the time.

01:51:31.596 --> 01:51:32.106
Right.

01:51:32.426 --> 01:51:33.016
So.

01:51:33.792 --> 01:51:45.471
Um, so I'd come back, we weren't expecting that, um, and Sarah's standing in the driveway and she's, you know, crying and I pull up and I'm like, what's wrong?

01:51:45.572 --> 01:51:47.112
And she says, I'm pregnant.

01:51:47.341 --> 01:51:48.112
I was like, what?

01:51:48.532 --> 01:51:52.282
I, you know, we didn't think it could happen, you know, this soon or whatever.

01:51:52.341 --> 01:51:52.981
Yeah, yeah.

01:51:53.242 --> 01:51:59.051
Um, well, meanwhile, Emmett had been napping inside, he was sleeping and she hadn't.

01:51:59.407 --> 01:52:01.046
Told anybody yet, right?

01:52:01.067 --> 01:52:14.087
She told me so when I got home and then, um, so then later that night, we're going to her parents for dinner and she's sitting on the stairs with Emmett and tying his shoes.

01:52:14.106 --> 01:52:16.537
And this is after, obviously he's up from his nap.

01:52:16.537 --> 01:52:19.516
And, um, this is, you know, a couple hours later, whatever.

01:52:20.327 --> 01:52:24.037
And, um, he looks up at her and he goes, I love you, mama.

01:52:24.327 --> 01:52:25.396
And she said, thanks, buddy.

01:52:25.396 --> 01:52:26.117
I love you too.

01:52:26.167 --> 01:52:28.207
And he goes, and I love the baby in your tummy.

01:52:30.157 --> 01:52:30.407
Oh.

01:52:31.532 --> 01:52:35.261
Yeah, so that's the start of the intuitive thing, right?

01:52:35.292 --> 01:52:35.881
Right.

01:52:37.391 --> 01:52:43.891
This is kind of semi personal But like was it like so close behind a previous miscarriage or something like that?

01:52:43.891 --> 01:52:52.157
Yeah, I just didn't think she could yeah She had that she you know, we had went and Yeah, we had gone to see a fertility doc and the whole thing.

01:52:52.167 --> 01:52:53.957
Yeah, I went through some of that too.

01:52:53.997 --> 01:52:56.157
So, the odds weren't strong.

01:52:56.176 --> 01:53:00.337
Well, and, and, And you weren't talking about it at least until 10 weeks or something with anybody.

01:53:00.527 --> 01:53:10.737
weren't, um, we were another, we were probably, um, uh, maybe a month, six weeks early from when we thought we might be able to get pregnant kind of thing.

01:53:10.737 --> 01:53:11.820
Wow, I don't know, what an interesting thing.

01:53:11.820 --> 01:53:14.487
Um, but the fact that he was sleeping, Yeah.

01:53:15.362 --> 01:53:18.671
And she told me, and then he just knew this.

01:53:18.681 --> 01:53:24.801
You don't think he just heard you talking or there's no chance because it was on the driveway, right?

01:53:24.801 --> 01:53:29.072
Like, um, so that was that well, then a follow up one.

01:53:29.072 --> 01:53:52.152
So fast forward, like seven months and, um, and she's, you know, big pregnant and the, in the kitchen and, um, And he's playing around, you know, with whatever, pots and pans or something, and are dancing, and, um, And he says something to her like, Oh, my sister's in heaven.

01:53:52.311 --> 01:53:56.221
And, and, or, yeah, my sister's in heaven.

01:53:56.322 --> 01:53:59.962
And, and Sarah said, because at this point we knew Daph was going to be a girl.

01:54:00.462 --> 01:54:03.591
And she said, no, buddy, your sister's in mama's tummy.

01:54:03.692 --> 01:54:06.042
And he said, not that sister, my other sister.

01:54:07.061 --> 01:54:09.471
Wow, dang.

01:54:09.917 --> 01:54:16.436
Yeah, he's gonna be like I see dead people kind of style going on with it's crazy.

01:54:16.476 --> 01:54:31.896
Hopefully not Yeah, yeah, I don't want it to well anyway But the the fact like that stuff alone like you yeah until you experience it Yeah, yeah Well, it's kind of like faith.

01:54:31.907 --> 01:54:37.186
Once you see providence at work in your life, you can just kind of be on board.

01:54:37.407 --> 01:54:37.936
Absolutely.

01:54:38.287 --> 01:54:43.497
Well, uh, I would say, um, your son's a prophet, probably.

01:54:43.537 --> 01:54:45.136
He sees things more clearly.

01:54:45.457 --> 01:54:47.527
Do you know that about, about that definition?

01:54:47.716 --> 01:54:48.016
No.

01:54:48.157 --> 01:54:50.527
Like a prophet isn't really a person that predicts the future.

01:54:51.207 --> 01:54:53.377
It's a person that sees things clearly.

01:54:53.726 --> 01:54:54.287
Interesting.

01:54:55.261 --> 01:55:02.782
Like, for like Isaiah, the prophet and whatever, it's not that he predicted Jesus coming and different things that are prophetic.

01:55:03.221 --> 01:55:05.372
He saw things clearly the whole time.

01:55:05.372 --> 01:55:11.091
And the ability to predict the future is just so that you can identify them as having that talent.

01:55:11.921 --> 01:55:15.051
And, and I, I describe myself occasionally as a prophet as well.

01:55:15.051 --> 01:55:20.662
I just, I see some things more clearly than other people and sounds like your son is thick with that.

01:55:20.742 --> 01:55:21.202
Yeah.

01:55:21.351 --> 01:55:22.752
So, uh, yeah.

01:55:23.556 --> 01:55:24.216
But that's crazy.

01:55:24.266 --> 01:55:25.367
It's crazy to me.

01:55:25.466 --> 01:55:26.356
Like, it's not crazy.

01:55:26.356 --> 01:55:37.796
Like, well, yeah, cause you're not a prophet, you know, but it's just like, it's kind of one of those, like, that's, that's a, well, for some people listening to this, they'll be like, Kerberos is crazy too.

01:55:37.796 --> 01:55:39.707
He's talking about prophets, modern day shit.

01:55:42.692 --> 01:55:44.311
Find Aaron at Citadeladvisorygroup.

01:55:44.311 --> 01:55:47.381
com.

01:55:47.381 --> 01:55:47.561
Citadeladvisory.

01:55:47.561 --> 01:55:48.002
com, yeah.

01:55:48.002 --> 01:55:48.532
Advisory.

01:55:48.721 --> 01:55:49.212
com.

01:55:49.402 --> 01:55:55.171
And uh, especially if you have or know somebody with a middle market company.

01:55:55.261 --> 01:55:56.212
Yeah, appreciate it.

01:55:56.231 --> 01:55:57.872
Or just need some direction.

01:55:57.902 --> 01:55:58.721
Yeah, just talk to me.

01:55:58.792 --> 01:55:59.091
Yeah.

01:55:59.091 --> 01:55:59.712
Yeah.

01:55:59.712 --> 01:56:01.692
Um, thanks for being here.

01:56:01.822 --> 01:56:02.939
Thank you, appreciate it.

01:56:02.939 --> 01:56:03.890
It's been a pretty fun conversation.

01:56:03.890 --> 01:56:04.364
It's been great.

01:56:04.364 --> 01:56:04.840
Alright, dig it.

01:56:04.840 --> 01:56:04.997
Bye.