EXPERIENCE 181 | Born a Social Worker! - A Conversation with Kelly Evans, Executive Director of Neighbor to Neighbor, Inc. - Delivering Housing Access in Larimer County and Beyond

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her for it, but Kelly Evans is and will forever be a Jayhawk.

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Born and raised in and around Lawrence, Kansas, Kelly got her Bachelor of Social Work from the University of Kansas and soon after began a frontline role with a local non profit.

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Two and a half years in, the board made the decision to depart the executive director and ask Kelly if she would take the job.

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Kelly is a natural leader and a lover of nature and her dreams of moving their family near their favorite vacation spot in Colorado are a reality.

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Poudre Canyon came true when she and her family moved to Fort Collins in 2012.

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Kelly came to town for a big job to turn around longtime housing focused nonprofit organization, Neighbor to Neighbor, which had grown out of a grassroots movement in the seventies, but it suffered through the real estate doldrums of the great recession.

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She did just that growing to a sustainable 20 before the COVID pandemic response flooded the organization with resources.

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With expiration dates, and they grew to over 60 employees by 2022, and then had to shrink back down to a stable ish staff of 30.

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How does a compassionate leader downsize with prudence and justice and empathy?

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Just ask Kelly, like I did.

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Neighbor to Neighbor is in a great place, and still offers a dozen programs, ranging from homebuyer preparedness training, to rent assistance, to home share programs, and much more.

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Kelly is cheerful and open and kind and one of the most empathetic and intelligent people I've ever met.

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And she's a free thinker and a person I can cheerfully disagree with and challenge without risking a friendship.

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So please enjoy, as I did, my conversation with Kelly Evans.

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welcome back to the Loco Experience podcast.

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My guest today is Kelly Evans and Kelly is the executive director of Neighbor to Neighbor.

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Welcome.

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Welcome to the local experience.

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Thank you, Kurt.

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Um, how was your day so far?

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It has been good.

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It's a busy day.

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It's fun to be here.

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You got a new backpack.

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I'm going on my first 14 or I just found out last night.

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And so it was kind of like, ah, see what the garage has for me for 50 bucks.

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And I got a great Osprey.

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Perfect.

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That's great.

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So, um, for the, uninitiated, because probably for a lot of people, they don't really have a reason to connect to neighbor to neighbor, right?

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So for those people, especially that have never heard of it, uh, start with the baseline.

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What are you guys doing?

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Yeah, so I get to run this amazing long time Fort Collins based non profit called Neighbor to Neighbor, We are Larimer County wide and some of our services are statewide and everything we do is around housing access and opportunity.

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So actually we don't just serve people with low income, we also serve a lot of folks working toward home ownership and working toward financial goals.

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So, we have quite a diverse group of clients.

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I don't know if I knew that, like it doesn't even have to be kind of just general budgeting and you probably have some training and things like that and positioning to try to buy a home.

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Yep.

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And then we also serve homeowners in maintaining homeownership and avoiding foreclosure or exploring a reverse mortgage in their later years if that ends up being something that They're interested in.

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Right.

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Interesting.

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I didn't realize the breadth, probably.

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It's about 12 programs.

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And then you have, um, like some units, you own some units that you rent out as well.

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132 affordable apartments.

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Oh, okay.

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I didn't realize it was that many.

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That's a lot.

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Yeah.

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Um, so 12 programs.

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Mm hmm.

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I'm not going to ask you to name all the programs, but it's, uh, so does each of them have like a direct report for a, a program leader?

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Um, some are grouped.

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Some run two or three.

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Yeah.

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Some are grouped.

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We have, I think, four directors.

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Okay.

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At Neighbor to Neighbor.

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And maybe five managers.

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And then it must be twenty front line staff.

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Okay.

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Doing the important work.

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The direct client engagement.

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And that could include financial kind of experts that help them through that or.

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Mm hmm.

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It really is, it's everything across the housing spectrum.

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From people experiencing homelessness.

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People on the verge of homelessness.

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People who are maybe a tenant in one of our apartments.

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People pursuing their dream of homeownership.

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And then long time homeowners wanting to stay homeowners.

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Right.

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So, mm hmm.

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Huh.

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That is, I, I'm sorry that I didn't, uh, recognize the breadth of it.

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I imagine most people probably fall into that bucket.

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It's like you said.

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Unless you have, you know, needed a service or supported one of the services, most people don't, don't know that we really are, you know, from beginning to end, right.

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housing.

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And was it, is this an independent organization?

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It was founded here, has been here, isn't affiliated with any international or national causes necessarily?

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Well, we are affiliated, but no, we are an independent local, local nonprofit founded by Lou Stitzel, an amazing woman, not far from here in North Fort Collins, 54 years ago.

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Okay.

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Our national affiliate is going to be NeighborWorks America.

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And they're, they're basically a funder of Neighbor to Neighbor.

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Oh, like for like federal contracts and different things like that, or through whatever channel, or they're just a foundation that cares a lot about it?

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They're a group that has a membership of about 250 community development organizations across the country.

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So those are our peers and you know, they take us.

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to convenings where we can learn from each other.

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They also audit the heck out of us to make sure we're adhering to best practice.

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Yeah, it's almost like an accreditation of sorts.

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And we are, and we are exemplary in their eyes.

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So we're proud of that.

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If they found you to be not exemplary and they kicked you out, would there be other organizations that you could affiliate with?

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Or is that, they're kind of the big show?

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Yeah, I'm sure there would be.

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You're not looking to, you're not looking to.

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Yeah, but we get money from them, and we get, you know, training, so it's a good, it's a good thing.

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Auditing, auditing is actually a good thing.

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It is.

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They run us through the ringer, and then they tell us, you know, you could do better, or this group in Rhode Island is doing it this way.

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Or, actually, can we refer people to you, because you've kind of got the market figured out.

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Yeah, yeah.

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How interesting.

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Um, what else would you want that novice person to know?

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Do you want to give any kudos to some of your directors, your managers?

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Um, how do, do people, is all your money from, like, donations and funding?

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Do people pay to engage in some of these classes and trainings and stuff?

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Well, it's very diverse.

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Um, one of our strategic Sorry, that was lots of questions at one time.

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That's cool.

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We're here to talk.

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It's all good.

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Um, one of our goals is to maintain a diverse funding base so that we don't, you know, How they say, have all of our eggs in one basket.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So, the, the biggest funder, funder for us used to be people paying us rent.

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And then, we got a lot more grants and donations, and so now it's a little bit more balanced between community members supporting our work, especially homelessness prevention, that is what most folks love to support in, in Neighbor to Neighbor the most.

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Um, but then there's also grants and the state pays us to teach homebuyer education, um, because it has long term results in people avoiding foreclosure down the road.

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Right, right.

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And I imagine that there was probably a lot of grant funding during COVID 19 and, you know, efforts to keep people in their places and whatever.

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So much.

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We didn't know what to do with it.

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So much.

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Yeah, we would have known what to do with it.

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Uh, we weren't allowed to spend it the way that we would have wanted, uh, but that is sometimes how government works.

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And so Can you elaborate, um, on that?

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You, like, preferred to do longer term investing and they wanted you to just do short term stuff or Like We believe in providing just as much assistance as a household needs and then helping them meet their own goals.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And What happened during the pandemic, starting in about 2021, is the government provided more money than we had had in 2020 to provide assistance in rent assistance, rent and utility emergency assistance.

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for longer periods of time.

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Which created more people who got hooked on the, Yeah.

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on the money that then dried up.

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Yep.

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Yeah, so, it wasn't at all how we would have designed the program.

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What would you, what would you have done instead to prevent that kind of conflict of effort and interest?

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What we believe best practice is with rent assistance, it is nationally known as a best practice to prevent eviction.

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It's much better for communities, Sure.

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for landlords, for families.

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Yeah.

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So let's prevent that.

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Um, usually, I don't even know about usually, but a lot of times, you can prevent an eviction with one to three months worth of assistance.

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Really help a family who had to, you know, leave town for a funeral.

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Right.

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Or got this terrible illness.

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Had a medical situation.

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Yeah.

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Or the transmission goes out in the truck.

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You know, things that happen to all people.

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One to three months rent assistance will suffice in a lot of cases.

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in the more chronic issues that are more tricky, six months worth of assistance.

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Um, can often be the solution.

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Past that, what folks are going to need, maybe people who are experiencing chronic homelessness, for example, they're going to need a housing voucher.

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Yeah.

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Um, they're probably not.

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And there should be a reason, kind of, that they need that.

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Yeah.

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You know, if they're unemployable, let's address the reasons that they're unemployable.

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Kind of, but that's not necessarily your department.

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Right.

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So yeah, we, we did what we were asked to do and we did it.

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With, um, professionalism, I think it was good for my agency because we did it so well.

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Um, that we got a lot of, of good, you know, recognition as we deserved.

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And also, should this happen again, I hope that agencies who've been doing this work for a long time can be at the table.

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When program design happens.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um, so, you know, it's over Unfortunately, we saw a lot of these families.

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I think that got assistance Still now they have much bigger TVs than they used to have.

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Oh, it's actually made it.

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I mean, we just don't live in a place where the average wage for your barista or even your firefighters or your school teacher is Can afford um, barely even a two bedroom apartment, right?

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So, you know, we that remains a big problem, which has been kind of as exasperated by the inflation and Housing real estate prices rents, right?

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Like if you got a nice three bedroom one bath apartment building you can get like More than 2, 000 for each one of those things, these days.

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I refer to a report often that says that the living wage, or the wage needed, to afford a basic two bedroom apartment in Larimer County now is 29 an hour.

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Oh, wow.

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So, and we strive to pay our employees a living wage.

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Yeah.

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But, I mean, I don't have everybody at 29.

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Yeah.

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That's a high wage.

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I don't think I pay all my 29, you know.

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Yep.

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Um, It's an economic issue that, you know, thankfully our chamber is forward thinking and, um, have, we've partnered with a lot of organizations to really try to help balance this a bit so that we can still have a workforce here.

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Yeah, no, it's important.

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I mean, uh, even like thinking about hiring employees, uh, you know, It used to be kind of, you know, drive until you qualify, right?

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But then you now with, you know, gas prices are down now, but you know, who knows?

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And it's expensive in Evans and Greeley and Loveland and compare, you know, not as expensive as Fort Collins, but it's getting there, getting there.

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It's not far behind.

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I think the community foundations intersections report said that Larimer and Weld are going to grow by a cumulative 92 percent in the next.

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In the last 15 years and the next 15 years, that 30 year span.

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And I think what we're, what we know now is probably most of that growth will have to be in weld.

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Right.

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But it does show how much we have already grown in Larimer too.

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We're kind of built out in a lot of respects, you know, with our infrastructure, access to water.

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Right.

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All that stuff.

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Um, wow.

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Okay.

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So, um, we kind of touched on a little bit, but what would.

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What would you have done differently of that program, aside from making it, you know, shorter injections, I guess more available, but smaller duration injections is at least one thing and qualifying people, you know, we've been doing, we've been doing emergency housing assistance for a long time at neighbor to neighbor.

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By and large, people don't want to have to come in our doors.

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They don't want to have to ask for assistance.

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Um, we hear very regularly, Oh my gosh, this is, this is a godsend, but I've never done this before.

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And I don't ever want to do this again.

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And so we need to honor that.

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And, and what we want to do is just work with people who are in this moment and say, you know, it's okay that that's why we have a safety net.

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Now let's not rely on it because it's not a good place to be.

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What can we do moving forward?

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And so it would be really more, I think, assessing each household's needs and then meeting those Instead of a, you know, casting this really wide net across everyone and that's easier said than done in emergency response So I I would have liked, you know in my perfect world, we would have had the same amount of money But maybe I would have had twice as long to spend it in more strategic ways.

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Yeah.

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Fair.

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Okay.

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Um, how did you get here?

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Like, uh, can we talk about your, like, maybe just the work career first.

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We'll jump all the way in the time machine to first grade or something later.

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Oh my God, I love it.

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But tell me about, like, getting into, uh, non profit work.

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I was born in, uh, I was born a social worker back in 1979.

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I had like a clipboard in my hand and everything.

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Um, no, I just knew, like, even in sixth grade, I was president of the Save the Earth Club at my elementary school.

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Um.

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So, this is just what I was born to do.

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I just would have a prayer when I was a child, you know, help me to help other people.

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And that's a blessing to get to do that for my work.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Fair enough.

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So how did I end up in Colorado?

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Yeah.

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So, 12 years ago, or I guess a little bit more than that, we started with our boys, my husband Travis and our two boys, started camping.

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And one of the places that we loved to come in Colorado was Poudre Canyon.

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Okay.

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And then I would cry.

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at least four of the eight hours home to Lawrence, Kansas, where I'm from.

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And, uh, after a couple of years of doing that, we thought, what are we, are we supposed to like move there?

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What is this?

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And Travis feel the same way?

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Or was he like, Kelly, you so crazy.

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We're not just going to pick up our lives.

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And now he's kind of like, I don't know, I just, I'll go where you go.

00:16:19.474 --> 00:16:20.903
I suppose he was pretty supportive.

00:16:20.903 --> 00:16:21.293
All right.

00:16:21.293 --> 00:16:21.583
All right.

00:16:21.984 --> 00:16:24.583
So we tried to move here.

00:16:24.894 --> 00:16:42.203
And my, my parents kind of probably could have had me stick around a little bit longer with just family time so I didn't get any job offers and I look back on that and go yeah that was I did not have a ticket to leave.

00:16:42.803 --> 00:16:43.744
It wasn't ready yet.

00:16:43.844 --> 00:16:47.903
Nope, but A couple years later, I kept doing it.

00:16:48.063 --> 00:16:51.214
We would come out to Poudre Canyon and then I would cry for the whole way home.

00:16:51.803 --> 00:16:54.813
And so we thought, well, maybe we'll just put out some more resumes, you know, and just see.

00:16:54.813 --> 00:16:58.874
And if I don't get any hits, I love Lawrence, Kansas, too, so that's okay.

00:16:58.913 --> 00:17:00.453
And what does, what does Travis do?

00:17:01.244 --> 00:17:02.754
Well, he's done a lot of things.

00:17:03.354 --> 00:17:06.784
See, the job search was really focused on me because I only know how to run non profits.

00:17:08.243 --> 00:17:09.304
That's, I know how to do one thing.

00:17:09.673 --> 00:17:10.903
And he knows how to do all the things.

00:17:11.374 --> 00:17:15.824
So, back then, he was a realtor.

00:17:16.153 --> 00:17:18.413
And before that, he was the youth pastor at our church.

00:17:19.134 --> 00:17:20.594
And before that, he was in sales.

00:17:20.624 --> 00:17:21.634
And then he was a handyman.

00:17:22.013 --> 00:17:22.663
And he could do all the things.

00:17:22.953 --> 00:17:25.584
And now he's back in sales, um, here.

00:17:25.594 --> 00:17:27.023
But, uh, so anyway.

00:17:27.088 --> 00:17:30.318
Then a couple years later, we tried again and it was time.

00:17:30.469 --> 00:17:35.469
And I got several doors opening and chose Fort Collins because it's a lot like Lawrence.

00:17:36.088 --> 00:17:36.788
Just so lovely.

00:17:36.788 --> 00:17:37.729
University town, right?

00:17:37.729 --> 00:17:38.459
University town.

00:17:38.538 --> 00:17:38.999
Just awesome.

00:17:39.058 --> 00:17:40.038
How big is Lawrence now?

00:17:40.538 --> 00:17:42.169
It's still smaller than Fort Collins.

00:17:42.578 --> 00:17:44.298
I want to say it's maybe 130.

00:17:44.499 --> 00:17:45.169
Oh, is it that big?

00:17:45.509 --> 00:17:45.709
Okay.

00:17:45.739 --> 00:17:45.888
Cool.

00:17:45.989 --> 00:17:46.388
That's a guess.

00:17:46.409 --> 00:17:46.929
I'm kind of out of touch.

00:17:46.959 --> 00:17:49.669
My wife's aunt lived in Fort Collins.

00:17:50.798 --> 00:17:53.898
next town over, like, not Kansas City, but Olathe?

00:17:54.088 --> 00:17:54.189
Okay.

00:17:54.378 --> 00:17:54.409
Yep.

00:17:54.469 --> 00:17:54.878
Yeah.

00:17:54.909 --> 00:17:56.489
So, but we stopped through Lawrence.

00:17:56.729 --> 00:18:08.249
Usually when we were, we've only visited her two or three times, but I think we always stopped through Lawrence because it was just a cool little college town vibe, you know, gather yourself before you go engage with the family for the whole Thanksgiving weekend.

00:18:08.259 --> 00:18:08.348
Yes.

00:18:09.128 --> 00:18:12.898
Anyway, so, so you had lots of doors opening and when did that bring you here?

00:18:13.824 --> 00:18:17.834
I moved in late November of 2012.

00:18:18.074 --> 00:18:20.374
And then the family followed me about a month later.

00:18:20.433 --> 00:18:21.314
Oh wow, okay.

00:18:21.874 --> 00:18:27.223
And I feel like you and I must have met within a couple of years at least, if not sooner than that.

00:18:27.223 --> 00:18:28.574
I don't remember the circumstance.

00:18:28.574 --> 00:18:35.124
I remember seeing you and Travis at lots of music shows and stuff like that, uh, in the days since.

00:18:35.394 --> 00:18:40.384
Well when I arrived at Neighbor to Neighbor, the organization was on the struggle bus.

00:18:40.483 --> 00:18:41.173
Full line.

00:18:42.324 --> 00:18:43.064
Hard times.

00:18:43.463 --> 00:18:45.023
Um, you know, it was 2012.

00:18:45.054 --> 00:18:49.294
They had not weathered the housing recession all that well because it's a housing entity.

00:18:49.844 --> 00:19:05.503
And so, I think what, one of my first, um, activities that was so fun and I met so many people and maybe you, was through the chamber, red carpet, uh, it was just, you know, helping the community understand we're still here.

00:19:06.243 --> 00:19:06.634
You know.

00:19:06.634 --> 00:19:08.138
So, Support us, please.

00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:18.169
Uh, and so it was fun and you were obviously early in your career Otherwise, you probably wouldn't have taken that job or they under Told you about how much struggle bus what's going on?

00:19:18.169 --> 00:19:27.858
We were pretty honest I was and you're like here's my chance to really make a difference I was the whole like third time's the charm, you know I was the third one to try to get in there and kind of fix it.

00:19:27.858 --> 00:19:33.159
Oh, wow, and it worked Um, but I like I'm a cheerleader by nature.

00:19:33.159 --> 00:19:38.028
I like encouraging teams and leading and pulling the pieces back together.

00:19:38.028 --> 00:19:43.509
So together with the board and the community and our funders and our staff, we pulled it back together.

00:19:43.959 --> 00:19:44.808
It's been really fun.

00:19:45.019 --> 00:19:45.338
Yeah.

00:19:45.729 --> 00:19:52.348
Um, Like, is this a, this is probably none of my business, but like, do you want to be here for another 20 years?

00:19:52.608 --> 00:19:55.588
Do you want to try to turn something else around?

00:19:55.588 --> 00:20:00.318
Like, uh, you've been tremendously successful over that 10 years or so now, right?

00:20:00.328 --> 00:20:00.679
Is that right?

00:20:00.679 --> 00:20:01.169
I love it.

00:20:01.449 --> 00:20:06.318
I think, you know, I was a non profit director back in Lawrence before I moved here and I loved that too.

00:20:06.358 --> 00:20:10.429
It was just still my hometown and it was kind of time to see what else was out there a little bit.

00:20:10.429 --> 00:20:10.489
Thank you.

00:20:10.969 --> 00:20:12.858
So we don't have any plans to leave.

00:20:13.128 --> 00:20:15.088
I don't have any plans to leave Neighbor to Neighbor.

00:20:15.459 --> 00:20:17.398
Uh, I just It's not too easy yet?

00:20:17.558 --> 00:20:18.128
No.

00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:18.548
Okay.

00:20:18.719 --> 00:20:18.999
I'm not mad.

00:20:19.409 --> 00:20:25.638
Alright, well I guess you seem like that kind of person that if it gets too easy then you might go look for something harder to do.

00:20:25.729 --> 00:20:28.378
Yeah, I do love a challenge, but it's still a challenge.

00:20:28.378 --> 00:20:33.078
So, it's, you know, there's been so many different phases of our organization.

00:20:33.078 --> 00:20:35.538
It's so different than the agency I walked into.

00:20:35.983 --> 00:20:43.493
And it's also so different than the agency it was at the height of the pandemic, which is a welcome kind of return to a new normal.

00:20:43.624 --> 00:20:44.023
Yeah.

00:20:44.334 --> 00:20:48.814
Can we, um, can we kind of take us through the neighbor to neighbor journey?

00:20:48.814 --> 00:20:53.983
Like give me a little bit of an idea, like, What was your staff like when you arrived?

00:20:54.084 --> 00:20:56.124
You don't have to get into full specific.

00:20:56.144 --> 00:20:58.534
I was like, imagine I could go pull all the reports, right?

00:20:58.673 --> 00:21:00.473
Cause it's nonprofit reports, all those things.

00:21:00.473 --> 00:21:02.683
But was it a much smaller, I assume?

00:21:03.604 --> 00:21:08.614
I think I maybe was staff member number 11, um, in 2012.

00:21:08.943 --> 00:21:15.513
And then by about 2019, 2017, you know, we were acquiring another nonprofit.

00:21:17.773 --> 00:21:20.253
Acquiring these, um, yes, kind of.

00:21:20.314 --> 00:21:20.634
Yep.

00:21:21.034 --> 00:21:25.003
And then acquiring these homes and building our portfolio out a little bit.

00:21:25.013 --> 00:21:28.614
So we thought we were, we thought, I thought we were hot shit back in 2017.

00:21:29.334 --> 00:21:30.263
We are doing so well.

00:21:30.723 --> 00:21:33.334
And then by 2019, we were kind of tired.

00:21:33.334 --> 00:21:34.824
We're like, Oh my gosh, we've been so busy.

00:21:34.824 --> 00:21:36.773
You know, we're so busy.

00:21:37.163 --> 00:21:39.463
This is going to be, let's chill.

00:21:39.473 --> 00:21:42.044
This is going to be the year of refinement in 2020.

00:21:42.054 --> 00:21:47.403
We're just going to like, refine everything and, you know, remember our value of excellence.

00:21:47.433 --> 00:21:53.943
And then, you know, it's just our, our productivity expanded by like a thousand percent in six months.

00:21:53.953 --> 00:22:05.203
So it was not the year of refinement, but it was very exciting for, for us at, from an organizational standpoint, it was not exciting for America, but as a nonprofit leader, it was.

00:22:06.233 --> 00:22:08.564
It's it's much more fun to go up.

00:22:08.963 --> 00:22:11.733
And then what I had to learn is what goes up must come down.

00:22:11.733 --> 00:22:14.064
And it was not as fun to come down in 2023.

00:22:14.094 --> 00:22:16.483
So the staffing number, I was number 11.

00:22:16.483 --> 00:22:23.094
In 2019, right before the pandemic in early 2020, we were at 19 staff, really nice size organization.

00:22:24.588 --> 00:22:26.778
At the height of the pandemic, we were 67.

00:22:27.509 --> 00:22:29.288
That is not my favorite size.

00:22:29.909 --> 00:22:34.398
You just don't have proximity to staff and they don't feel like they have proximity to you.

00:22:34.778 --> 00:22:39.798
And then now we're at 30, which is really starting to feel like right size again.

00:22:39.989 --> 00:22:40.409
Wow.

00:22:40.808 --> 00:22:41.439
Was that hard?

00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:45.519
Um, Like they were full time employees and stuff like that, I guess.

00:22:45.588 --> 00:22:54.598
And basically frontline more, a little bit more managers, directors, I suppose, or whatever, more programs that you've maybe some of them you still do.

00:22:54.598 --> 00:22:55.628
Some of them you stopped.

00:22:55.848 --> 00:22:58.308
Well, most of our programs continue.

00:22:58.659 --> 00:23:02.648
The funding sources changed dramatically in 2023.

00:23:03.058 --> 00:23:06.489
And we didn't really have a lot of notice about that happening.

00:23:06.898 --> 00:23:15.648
So we did two rounds of layoffs that were much more abrupt, at least the first one was, than I know I would have felt comfortable with.

00:23:15.689 --> 00:23:19.439
Oh my gosh, if we don't let these people go right away, we're gonna bleed to death quickly.

00:23:19.548 --> 00:23:20.638
The sky is falling.

00:23:20.659 --> 00:23:26.878
I'm going to give them as much notice as I can, which means I need to announce this change next week.

00:23:26.969 --> 00:23:28.423
Well, So, that's what we did.

00:23:28.544 --> 00:23:33.923
And you got to make a decision on who, like, can you talk about the criteria that you applied?

00:23:33.923 --> 00:23:35.834
Was it on seniority?

00:23:35.834 --> 00:23:37.463
Was it on role?

00:23:37.473 --> 00:23:38.743
Who do you like the best?

00:23:39.064 --> 00:23:39.973
You know, yeah, we were careful.

00:23:39.973 --> 00:23:41.243
A combination of all those.

00:23:41.364 --> 00:23:42.284
We were totally careful in that.

00:23:42.614 --> 00:23:42.973
Um, yeah.

00:23:43.513 --> 00:23:51.443
The first was if you weren't hired during the pandemic, you weren't included in our layoff consideration.

00:23:51.673 --> 00:23:52.153
Oh, wow.

00:23:52.614 --> 00:23:56.054
Because we had hired so many people, we had like 45 people.

00:23:56.104 --> 00:23:58.493
And so they didn't have as much seniority with us.

00:23:59.294 --> 00:24:00.903
So that was the first criteria.

00:24:00.903 --> 00:24:08.403
And then the second one was where they lived, because we went fully remote, and my staff was more productive remote.

00:24:08.794 --> 00:24:12.864
So we were able to hire people, we were able to hire former employees in Texas.

00:24:13.263 --> 00:24:19.013
Vermont, North Carolina, um, who, who we knew could like hit the ground running on day one.

00:24:19.534 --> 00:24:22.104
And then we hired a lot of Weld County staff.

00:24:22.453 --> 00:24:26.213
And so the second criteria for the layoffs was if you don't live in Larimer County.

00:24:26.773 --> 00:24:32.209
And then I don't know, after that, there were more, but Um, that, that was like 80 percent of the people.

00:24:32.288 --> 00:24:32.659
Right.

00:24:32.739 --> 00:24:33.199
Wow.

00:24:33.239 --> 00:24:37.308
Well, it sounds, I mean, at least you were kind of objective about it and I think that was fair.

00:24:37.378 --> 00:24:40.388
They were amazing people and, and I hope that they continue to do amazing things.

00:24:40.388 --> 00:24:42.189
They came to help when you needed a lot of help.

00:24:42.189 --> 00:24:43.588
They were rock stars.

00:24:43.729 --> 00:24:44.048
Yeah.

00:24:44.648 --> 00:24:48.028
Um, so what, what's your funding mix now?

00:24:48.128 --> 00:25:08.578
Like, uh, between rent, donations, and, uh, Grants of various things and I guess is probably the three kind of breakdown buckets grants is still the biggest one and we still have one state grant that is pandemic era and that one there's still a few dollars left in that bucket It's a different program.

00:25:08.578 --> 00:25:09.868
It's for mortgage assistance.

00:25:09.939 --> 00:25:15.144
Oh, so it's helping people avoid foreclosure So our numbers are still skewed.

00:25:15.243 --> 00:25:18.624
Which is probably important now with people's arms adjusting and stuff like that.

00:25:18.884 --> 00:25:19.144
Yep.

00:25:19.153 --> 00:25:23.433
All right, different problem kind of that was designed for but yep.

00:25:23.534 --> 00:25:23.864
Okay.

00:25:23.953 --> 00:25:24.523
Anyway, sorry.

00:25:24.574 --> 00:25:25.443
I'm a scroll chaser.

00:25:25.483 --> 00:25:27.263
Yeah, so we still have that.

00:25:27.273 --> 00:25:29.763
So I don't really know where we'll end up.

00:25:29.784 --> 00:25:37.199
My, my budget went from three million to In, you know, February of 2020 to at one point it was about 35 million.

00:25:37.719 --> 00:25:42.179
Now I honestly, I don't really know what it is because it's such a moving target.

00:25:42.179 --> 00:25:44.328
It's, it's going to land somewhere around 10.

00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:45.179
Wow.

00:25:45.538 --> 00:25:46.778
A million, I think.

00:25:46.939 --> 00:25:51.209
And did you like grow your portfolio of properties during that time too?

00:25:51.219 --> 00:25:51.818
Not much.

00:25:52.189 --> 00:25:54.449
It's hard because I feel like we've been priced out of the market.

00:25:54.719 --> 00:25:55.209
Right.

00:25:55.269 --> 00:25:55.848
Yeah.

00:25:56.348 --> 00:25:58.368
Um, no, not during the pandemic.

00:25:58.368 --> 00:25:58.749
We haven't.

00:25:58.769 --> 00:26:09.749
Well, I was thinking to myself, because I assume, um, I don't know if you have a different, like, holding company for your properties versus a non profit or what, but do you, like, you get a property tax waiver on your properties?

00:26:09.749 --> 00:26:11.308
Is that kind of a competitive advantage?

00:26:12.028 --> 00:26:13.769
We still pay property taxes.

00:26:13.778 --> 00:26:14.618
You do, okay.

00:26:14.769 --> 00:26:16.669
Of course it's somehow complicated.

00:26:17.128 --> 00:26:17.348
Right.

00:26:18.229 --> 00:26:20.749
It's less than normal people pay probably.

00:26:20.749 --> 00:26:21.259
Yeah, maybe so.

00:26:21.259 --> 00:26:25.979
I think maybe we go through housing catalyst or something to pay it, but I know we still pay it.

00:26:26.068 --> 00:26:26.788
Okay, gotcha.

00:26:26.878 --> 00:26:27.249
Uh huh.

00:26:27.578 --> 00:26:29.239
Because that would be a nice competitive advantage, right?

00:26:29.368 --> 00:26:29.818
It would be.

00:26:29.828 --> 00:26:31.419
Like you could have lower rents than others.

00:26:31.429 --> 00:26:31.878
Yeah.

00:26:32.159 --> 00:26:35.969
Something that we're, we really want more property.

00:26:36.159 --> 00:26:38.159
One, because it helps us pay the bills.

00:26:38.469 --> 00:26:41.189
And two, because we are an ethical landlord.

00:26:41.249 --> 00:26:42.749
We like the way we treat people.

00:26:43.548 --> 00:26:43.999
Yeah, yeah.

00:26:44.148 --> 00:26:46.959
And many landlords are, and we're one of the good ones.

00:26:47.648 --> 00:26:53.429
And so we would like to grow our portfolio, and it's hard because it's super expensive to buy anything here.

00:26:53.429 --> 00:26:53.729
Who knew?

00:26:54.298 --> 00:27:07.179
Um, so our, our hope is that as some of our long time smaller landlords in town decide to get out of this property management world, maybe they would consider selling to us.

00:27:07.199 --> 00:27:12.558
It's a mission minded local organization that, or you would probably even accept donations, right?

00:27:12.558 --> 00:27:13.398
Or donations.

00:27:13.409 --> 00:27:14.118
Absolutely.

00:27:14.469 --> 00:27:21.858
And you know, I think, I don't know, I don't think it's a pipe dream because I, for many of these landlords, we've been supporting them for many years.

00:27:22.189 --> 00:27:27.888
So we're, that's my strategy is to just kind of put that out and say, tired of all the regulation?

00:27:29.528 --> 00:27:41.979
Well, yeah, and once they got their kind of retirement sorted and the, you know, the kids are doing fine already, whatever Even just selling it For 20 percent less without a realtor, right?

00:27:42.028 --> 00:27:46.769
That makes it back in your opportunity zone again And I there are so many kind landlords.

00:27:46.778 --> 00:28:01.919
I mean in many ways It's a cornerstone of our community these these people who have influence and power By owning people's homes and they're they are keeping rents low and they are doing whatever they can to not Displace that family.

00:28:01.929 --> 00:28:07.338
So I know that they don't want a Investor to come in and flip that place.

00:28:07.439 --> 00:28:20.769
Yeah Which is very likely You're probably not like the hands on deliverer of training on the budgeting and different things like that But can you talk to me about like if there's somebody out there?

00:28:21.528 --> 00:28:30.669
you know a 20 or a 24 year old that's like, you know I just got to do these few things and my job now pays twenty six dollars an hour.

00:28:30.669 --> 00:28:35.683
So I'm getting closer to that the the It's not a big thing of renting or buying or whatever.

00:28:35.923 --> 00:28:39.723
What are those big principles to set people on the right track, if you can speak to that?

00:28:39.753 --> 00:28:39.993
Yep.

00:28:40.183 --> 00:28:50.233
Well, actually, financial coaching had, had been a component of almost all of our programs, but it hadn't really been pulled together to where we could offer it as a stand alone service.

00:28:50.243 --> 00:28:56.699
So, um, So until this year, it was something that was included in a housing service at Neighbor to Neighbor.

00:28:57.128 --> 00:29:03.558
And a year ago, I hired one of my board members, um, a banker, to be our director of financial programs.

00:29:03.979 --> 00:29:05.568
So Janice is her name.

00:29:05.719 --> 00:29:12.273
And, uh, One of the first things she did is go get a big grant to build up financial coaching on its own.

00:29:12.523 --> 00:29:18.054
So now people in the community who aren't accessing a neighbor to neighbor service can come just for that.

00:29:18.473 --> 00:29:25.503
And to answer your question, what it could look like is let's first take an individualized approach to what is your budget?

00:29:25.784 --> 00:29:26.453
Do you have one?

00:29:26.784 --> 00:29:27.834
Where is your money going?

00:29:27.993 --> 00:29:29.354
How much money do you make?

00:29:30.308 --> 00:29:31.358
Is that where you want to be?

00:29:31.538 --> 00:29:32.469
What are your goals?

00:29:32.858 --> 00:29:37.419
If home ownership is a goal, then we're going to look at, you know, maybe credit repair.

00:29:37.648 --> 00:29:39.979
And helping people work on repairing that.

00:29:39.979 --> 00:29:44.788
So it's kind of like strategic planning almost, where the first big step is to assess the current situation.

00:29:44.898 --> 00:29:45.608
Absolutely.

00:29:46.038 --> 00:29:46.509
For all of us.

00:29:47.148 --> 00:29:52.088
Um, I had a staff member once who would always say, you know, home ownership can be for anyone.

00:29:52.378 --> 00:29:57.409
It's how long are you going to have to work at it and what are your unique steps to achieve success.

00:29:57.659 --> 00:29:58.509
And we've seen that.

00:29:58.538 --> 00:30:06.308
We have a remarkable percentage of our home buyer ed clients be, become successful homeowners in this market.

00:30:06.308 --> 00:30:06.423
Yeah.

00:30:06.423 --> 00:30:06.538
Yeah.

00:30:06.538 --> 00:30:06.884
That's really cool.

00:30:06.884 --> 00:30:07.778
Mm hmm.

00:30:08.269 --> 00:30:14.088
Alma um, just got married about a year and a half ago and they chose to.

00:30:14.459 --> 00:30:22.739
They bought a trailer and on a rented spot off Harmony, but they busted their asses and they paid it off in like a year.

00:30:23.398 --> 00:30:24.398
And they fixed it up.

00:30:24.398 --> 00:30:25.648
So it's now it's worth it.

00:30:25.919 --> 00:30:31.999
I don't know, bought it for 30 and they're going to be able to sell it for 60, 65 and that's going to be their down payment when they buy something.

00:30:32.568 --> 00:30:36.159
And yes, uh, in the meantime, they get to live in a.

00:30:36.364 --> 00:30:47.624
Small modest trailer, but you know, she's just being smart about like Can I do go faster if I fix this place up in this and that or if I just try to work harder?

00:30:47.624 --> 00:30:50.433
Well, how do I earn enough by working harder good plan?

00:30:50.624 --> 00:30:59.554
Yeah So anyway, I'm proud of her and that path that she's carving toward kind of that right thing generational wealth for her family Yeah, get started on it now.

00:30:59.554 --> 00:31:04.028
Yeah Um, so the other, I guess that's the first big thing.

00:31:04.028 --> 00:31:14.284
And then I guess if you, if you find out some things aren't aligned, you're like, Oh, I want to buy a house, but my credit's junk, and we just don't make enough money right now.

00:31:14.894 --> 00:31:21.963
You know, that could include like, okay, here's some options, here's some, here's some, do you, you don't get into like the career pathways or things like that.

00:31:21.963 --> 00:31:23.737
I wanted to, it's probably good.

00:31:23.737 --> 00:31:25.953
My board slapped my wrist and said, stop it.

00:31:25.983 --> 00:31:28.358
Oh, I wrote the grant, you know I did, um, but.

00:31:28.358 --> 00:31:38.878
It's probably good in hindsight that we didn't get it because I think 12 programs and pulling in, you know, what I think will be a very robust financial coaching service is probably plenty.

00:31:39.179 --> 00:31:45.288
And then like, where do you, where would you refer somebody to for like vocational efforts?

00:31:45.288 --> 00:31:47.459
Are there good programs in that space right now?

00:31:47.469 --> 00:31:48.159
I think that there are.

00:31:48.159 --> 00:31:48.689
I think our workforce center.

00:31:48.689 --> 00:31:50.788
I know like PSS does that on their own.

00:31:50.788 --> 00:31:52.648
I guess workforce center, I'm sure.

00:31:52.719 --> 00:31:53.038
Yep.

00:31:53.078 --> 00:31:54.449
And then I think Larimer County.

00:31:56.409 --> 00:31:58.709
Well, even the Chamber is kind of working on some Workforce 2.

00:31:58.709 --> 00:31:59.669
0 things.

00:31:59.669 --> 00:32:02.169
I don't know if that specifically includes as much training.

00:32:02.689 --> 00:32:07.699
I'd kind of still like to get into that, but It seems like there might be a little gap in services there.

00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:11.038
I mean, we tried it at the Matthews House and it kicked our ass.

00:32:11.078 --> 00:32:11.489
Really?

00:32:11.909 --> 00:32:14.588
Well, because we acquired Education Life Training Center.

00:32:14.648 --> 00:32:14.888
Okay.

00:32:15.259 --> 00:32:27.719
Uh, when Tracy Mead left there to go to PSS and we, like, Absorb them into our great program, but it like yeah, it just didn't work Matthew's house is so critical for youth services.

00:32:27.739 --> 00:32:33.614
I mean not that it isn't aligned but like You know, you just, the first thing you think of with the Mathews House is changing kids lives.

00:32:33.614 --> 00:32:34.249
Right, right.

00:32:34.979 --> 00:32:37.318
So, but that, that off mission there, kinda?

00:32:37.469 --> 00:32:40.047
Um, but that can also be achieved through Well, we're trying to disrupt generational poverty.

00:32:40.047 --> 00:32:40.469
Right, through post development.

00:32:40.469 --> 00:32:41.638
It was more the way I looked at it.

00:32:42.078 --> 00:32:42.618
Absolutely.

00:32:42.929 --> 00:32:44.778
Um, but you're right.

00:32:44.828 --> 00:32:44.949
Yeah.

00:32:45.028 --> 00:32:49.098
It was probably, but it also isn't housing related directly.

00:32:49.098 --> 00:32:50.219
I mean, I know.

00:32:50.538 --> 00:32:51.709
And I'm like, I'm tempted.

00:32:51.719 --> 00:32:55.939
Alright, somebody out there, uh, and me and Kelly will be on your board.

00:32:56.068 --> 00:32:56.548
There you go.

00:32:56.588 --> 00:32:56.729
Done.

00:32:57.828 --> 00:33:02.388
It's tempting though, because a lot of clients come through our doors already.

00:33:02.419 --> 00:33:09.058
And so, is it smart to just go ahead and offer a catch all, hey, while you're here, you know, do these other three things.

00:33:09.778 --> 00:33:10.038
So.

00:33:10.259 --> 00:33:10.709
I don't know.

00:33:11.028 --> 00:33:11.288
Yeah.

00:33:12.229 --> 00:33:12.669
Um.

00:33:13.489 --> 00:33:19.769
What else would you have me know about kind of neighbor to neighbor as an organization, um, or we can jump in the time machine to Lawrence?

00:33:19.769 --> 00:33:21.818
Let's see.

00:33:23.888 --> 00:33:39.378
Um, I just, I guess I'll just put out gratitude to the community because, uh, we've been around a long time both in Loveland for 25 years and in Fort Collins for 54 and love working with our donors and our, you know, the foundations here.

00:33:39.509 --> 00:33:40.499
Can people volunteer for you too?

00:33:40.528 --> 00:33:43.814
And our volunteers, we have, today is the last day.

00:33:43.933 --> 00:33:45.413
Day for Janet.

00:33:45.723 --> 00:33:48.354
I'll not share her last name because she would not appreciate that.

00:33:48.913 --> 00:33:52.604
Um, a long time Loveland volunteer, like 13 years.

00:33:53.104 --> 00:33:55.163
Um, and all of our Loveland volunteers are that way.

00:33:55.163 --> 00:33:59.443
They staff our front desk and that it is not an easy front desk to staff.

00:33:59.713 --> 00:34:05.044
You've got 12 programs with changing people calling people coming in in crisis.

00:34:05.058 --> 00:34:09.739
And these volunteers are just, like, so incredible.

00:34:09.748 --> 00:34:13.478
So, I guess, it's just, I'm honored to get to work alongside them.

00:34:13.708 --> 00:34:14.278
Yeah, that's cool.

00:34:14.429 --> 00:34:14.858
That's cool.

00:34:15.228 --> 00:34:17.539
Um, do you need to take a short break or anything like that?

00:34:17.539 --> 00:34:17.969
You happy?

00:34:18.018 --> 00:34:18.429
I'm okay.

00:34:18.539 --> 00:34:18.858
Okay.

00:34:19.278 --> 00:34:23.528
Um, well, let's roll to, uh, the time machine.

00:34:25.088 --> 00:34:25.409
Fun.

00:34:25.608 --> 00:34:29.449
Did you, uh, were you born and raised in Lawrence?

00:34:29.509 --> 00:34:29.679
Yep.

00:34:29.724 --> 00:34:33.173
Tell me about the setting of your birth.

00:34:33.173 --> 00:34:36.134
Lawrence Memorial Hospital.

00:34:38.943 --> 00:34:40.204
Oldest child.

00:34:40.284 --> 00:34:41.523
Oldest, yep, my brother.

00:34:41.994 --> 00:34:44.003
My brother gave my parents a rent for their money.

00:34:44.704 --> 00:34:49.219
And so, when, uh, We were in middle school, my brother Chris and I.

00:34:49.628 --> 00:34:51.909
My parents moved us into the country.

00:34:52.688 --> 00:34:53.639
South of town.

00:34:53.789 --> 00:34:54.289
I see.

00:34:54.318 --> 00:34:56.398
Into a smaller school district.

00:34:56.438 --> 00:34:56.989
Oh, interesting.

00:34:56.989 --> 00:35:01.068
So that my brother's misbehavior would be limited.

00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:04.389
Yes, yes, and you thought you were being punished for his misbehavior?

00:35:04.409 --> 00:35:16.219
I thought my It was a good move, uh, Baldwin City, Kansas is where I went to high school.

00:35:16.378 --> 00:35:16.838
Okay.

00:35:17.018 --> 00:35:19.708
Is that just like 20 miles away or something like that?

00:35:19.708 --> 00:35:20.088
Yeah.

00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:33.918
Um, can we go back like to that kindergarten, Kelly, second grade, um, were you always like super achiever and miss congeniality and mature for your age.

00:35:33.918 --> 00:35:44.188
And I guess all those things, the oldest kid athlete to not really, not so much tried, but just more of an activist from the beginning.

00:35:44.659 --> 00:35:47.228
And what were your folks, uh, what were your folks up to?

00:35:47.268 --> 00:35:48.509
Like, what was the setting there?

00:35:48.518 --> 00:35:50.159
My dad is an entrepreneur.

00:35:50.398 --> 00:35:55.358
I get a lot of my, just excitement around entrepreneurial ideas from him.

00:35:55.358 --> 00:35:55.599
Yeah.

00:35:55.798 --> 00:36:05.268
And then my mom was an office manager at KU, so I am a diehard Jayhawk.

00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:06.759
And she went to KU.

00:36:06.759 --> 00:36:13.619
She graduated with her degree while I was in 7th grade, um, something like that.

00:36:13.628 --> 00:36:16.898
So it was really special to, I remember watching her at night, you know, she worked.

00:36:16.909 --> 00:36:18.798
Well, that wasn't super normal in those days.

00:36:19.958 --> 00:36:27.128
Dad would work, she would work, then she would come home and she would be at the dining room table with the lamp doing her homework.

00:36:27.528 --> 00:36:34.518
And you know, back then I, I think she probably did most of the cooking and most of the cleaning and most of the grocery shopping for all of us, so.

00:36:34.628 --> 00:36:36.139
And what was your dad's business?

00:36:36.708 --> 00:36:37.159
Um.

00:36:37.268 --> 00:36:38.858
Or did he have lots of different things?

00:36:38.969 --> 00:36:39.398
Okay.

00:36:39.539 --> 00:36:41.099
So a variety of things.

00:36:41.099 --> 00:36:44.239
And then by the time I was in high school he was a real estate broker.

00:36:44.349 --> 00:36:44.768
Okay.

00:36:45.164 --> 00:36:45.393
Yeah.

00:36:45.393 --> 00:36:48.317
As a consultant, as in a way of saying mafia or anything like that?

00:36:48.317 --> 00:36:49.606
I don't think so.

00:36:49.606 --> 00:36:50.896
Early in his years.

00:36:50.896 --> 00:36:51.864
I'm not clear.

00:36:51.864 --> 00:36:53.704
Yeah, he was at IBM.

00:36:54.034 --> 00:36:54.384
Oh, I see.

00:36:54.384 --> 00:36:54.844
And that was fun.

00:36:54.844 --> 00:36:58.353
But he was like a technician, like fixing the keyboards and things.

00:36:58.713 --> 00:37:01.623
Um, and then he became just like a business consultant.

00:37:01.664 --> 00:37:02.213
Interesting.

00:37:02.224 --> 00:37:02.543
Mm hmm.

00:37:02.594 --> 00:37:02.753
Yeah.

00:37:02.753 --> 00:37:03.434
Zig Ziglar.

00:37:03.443 --> 00:37:05.094
I remember him introducing me to that.

00:37:05.094 --> 00:37:05.514
Yeah.

00:37:05.574 --> 00:37:06.643
like getting really into that.

00:37:06.833 --> 00:37:14.023
Well, and IBM had a culture back then, and maybe still, that like if I'm smart enough to work at IBM, I can pretty much.

00:37:14.563 --> 00:37:18.204
do anything, even if I've never done it before, which is generally wrong.

00:37:19.483 --> 00:37:25.853
HP had that same culture for a while, which was generally, you know, they would come out and buy businesses and be like, Oh, this will be easy.

00:37:25.853 --> 00:37:28.634
I'll just run this little business in my spare time and make it work better.

00:37:28.634 --> 00:37:35.204
And then, but maybe I am a true child of IBM though, because I do believe that confidence is like, Half of it?

00:37:35.344 --> 00:37:38.773
Whether you think you can or think you cannot, uh, you are telling the truth.

00:37:39.664 --> 00:37:40.023
Yes.

00:37:40.074 --> 00:37:42.094
No, it's a, I, that I agree.

00:37:42.164 --> 00:37:42.423
Yeah.

00:37:43.034 --> 00:37:46.384
So, so how does that confidence come to pass?

00:37:46.463 --> 00:37:49.914
Uh, how does it, has it maybe impacted your journey?

00:37:49.914 --> 00:37:53.873
Was that like even running for city student council and things like that?

00:37:54.143 --> 00:37:58.983
Uh, I just, I think I like to tell people what to do, to be in charge.

00:37:59.014 --> 00:38:00.114
I really do.

00:38:01.304 --> 00:38:02.324
It excites me.

00:38:02.353 --> 00:38:03.454
I just like leading a team.

00:38:03.494 --> 00:38:03.804
Yeah.

00:38:03.994 --> 00:38:04.233
Fair.

00:38:04.634 --> 00:38:06.704
So tell me about this little town that you moved to.

00:38:06.704 --> 00:38:10.155
And were you still in middle school or approaching high school at the time?

00:38:10.155 --> 00:38:13.474
I started ninth grade at the high school as a new kid.

00:38:13.893 --> 00:38:14.184
Perfect.

00:38:14.534 --> 00:38:16.403
Well, I guess everybody was new then though, right?

00:38:16.403 --> 00:38:18.733
At least kind of, no, they'd all gone to school together.

00:38:18.733 --> 00:38:21.043
How big a town?

00:38:21.643 --> 00:38:22.733
I don't even know.

00:38:23.304 --> 00:38:24.304
So how was that?

00:38:24.313 --> 00:38:26.773
Like, were you the cute new girl or were you?

00:38:26.914 --> 00:38:27.233
Yeah.

00:38:27.713 --> 00:38:28.583
So that wasn't that hard.

00:38:29.114 --> 00:38:35.833
I guess I, you know, honestly, that's bringing back a memory of my parents had a rule that I couldn't date until I was 16.

00:38:36.043 --> 00:38:36.373
Oh.

00:38:36.373 --> 00:38:37.813
And I appreciated that rule.

00:38:37.934 --> 00:38:39.554
'cause I could say sorry.

00:38:39.554 --> 00:38:40.903
Yeah, sorry.

00:38:44.353 --> 00:38:44.534
Love it.

00:38:44.534 --> 00:38:48.463
So, um, how was your relationship with your brother and those.

00:38:49.704 --> 00:38:50.503
Oh, we're super tight.

00:38:50.804 --> 00:38:50.994
Yeah.

00:38:51.054 --> 00:38:51.594
Oh, we always thought that.

00:38:51.594 --> 00:38:52.753
Even when he was misbehaving.

00:38:52.753 --> 00:38:53.423
We're very different.

00:38:53.423 --> 00:38:54.804
Getting you moved out to the country and stuff.

00:38:54.833 --> 00:38:56.023
Yeah, we're very different.

00:38:56.043 --> 00:38:59.273
I don't think my parents made it clear then that that's why they were moving.

00:38:59.284 --> 00:39:02.244
They just said, Oh, look at this house on a lake and isn't it beautiful and let's move there.

00:39:02.603 --> 00:39:03.074
Right.

00:39:03.134 --> 00:39:03.384
Right.

00:39:04.474 --> 00:39:06.833
Um, and I understand why they did that now.

00:39:07.184 --> 00:39:08.304
Um, and he's doing great.

00:39:08.454 --> 00:39:12.414
I mean, he has, he's just awesome, but yeah, we're, we've always been super close.

00:39:12.503 --> 00:39:15.393
Is it my, uh, mischievousness that's makes you like me?

00:39:15.393 --> 00:39:16.963
Cause I remind you of your brother.

00:39:16.974 --> 00:39:16.994
Yeah.

00:39:18.164 --> 00:39:20.994
No, I don't think you're, I don't think you're at that level.

00:39:21.153 --> 00:39:22.333
I'm more of a stay out of trouble kind of guy.

00:39:23.934 --> 00:39:24.923
But I am mischievous.

00:39:25.373 --> 00:39:26.304
He's just fun.

00:39:26.954 --> 00:39:28.503
People, my senior year I'm not fun?

00:39:28.643 --> 00:39:30.103
No, you are fun too.

00:39:30.184 --> 00:39:31.224
You have lots of friends.

00:39:31.643 --> 00:39:33.134
I'm more friends than anybody in town.

00:39:33.594 --> 00:39:41.764
Um, but senior year, you know, I'm like, supposed to be the senior, and people I still remember in high school would come up to me and say, You're Chris's sister.

00:39:42.844 --> 00:39:44.153
But that's so annoying.

00:39:44.414 --> 00:39:44.784
He's a freshman.

00:39:44.784 --> 00:39:47.963
But yes, I am.

00:39:47.974 --> 00:39:48.563
That's cool.

00:39:48.634 --> 00:39:49.123
I like it.

00:39:50.463 --> 00:39:52.673
So, uh, you're getting ready to graduate.

00:39:53.824 --> 00:39:59.284
Uh, so you're five years, no, uh, like when you were getting ready to graduate from high school.

00:39:59.324 --> 00:39:59.643
Oh, okay.

00:39:59.673 --> 00:40:01.224
You're five years younger than me.

00:40:01.264 --> 00:40:01.333
Okay.

00:40:01.704 --> 00:40:06.023
Uh, cause I was born in 74, which means that would have been 87, no, 97?

00:40:06.983 --> 00:40:07.563
98.

00:40:07.563 --> 00:40:08.494
98.

00:40:08.494 --> 00:40:10.903
Um, and what's going on in the world at that time?

00:40:11.684 --> 00:40:15.014
2000 is coming on and stuff, I guess.

00:40:15.023 --> 00:40:16.963
So what was that first big girl job?

00:40:18.458 --> 00:40:20.168
Or did you go right into the workforce after?

00:40:20.228 --> 00:40:22.009
I worked all through high school.

00:40:22.298 --> 00:40:28.579
I was a waitress, and then my first after college job, well, I worked at a group home during college.

00:40:28.998 --> 00:40:31.869
Hard work supporting people with intellectual disabilities.

00:40:32.349 --> 00:40:35.349
And then my first real job was an adoption social worker.

00:40:35.548 --> 00:40:35.998
Oh, wow.

00:40:36.728 --> 00:40:39.668
My wife, Jill, worked for Hope and Home in Colorado Springs.

00:40:39.989 --> 00:40:40.088
Amazing.

00:40:40.088 --> 00:40:40.818
For a couple years.

00:40:40.858 --> 00:40:41.858
Wow, incredible work.

00:40:41.858 --> 00:40:48.333
Yeah, so that's wild, wild, uh, Setting the, uh, and then, uh, like you were front line, I presume?

00:40:48.353 --> 00:40:49.733
Yep, I was an adoption worker.

00:40:50.054 --> 00:40:53.264
I had a whole, you know, case load of moms.

00:40:53.864 --> 00:40:54.563
And, yeah.

00:40:54.653 --> 00:40:58.333
Is there any, uh, like stories you still remember from those days?

00:40:58.333 --> 00:41:00.063
Either tragic or amazing?

00:41:00.063 --> 00:41:04.523
Yeah, one has an amazing, amazing just story I think of.

00:41:04.923 --> 00:41:07.333
of selflessness on behalf of the birth mom.

00:41:07.893 --> 00:41:10.653
I facilitated this adoption in California.

00:41:10.724 --> 00:41:12.673
We're, we're a national adoption agency.

00:41:12.673 --> 00:41:17.003
And so even though I was based in Kansas city, uh, California was my territory.

00:41:17.253 --> 00:41:20.184
And so I would facilitate the adoption entirely over the phone.

00:41:20.554 --> 00:41:22.184
I didn't get to go there or anything.

00:41:22.784 --> 00:41:42.079
But in California, they had what we viewed to be a very dangerous law in that Moms biological moms had up to 30 days after placement of the baby to change their minds Yeah, i've heard about that before and that is so sad And so I had that happen.

00:41:42.088 --> 00:41:48.159
Okay, I had this sweet sweet sweet um birth mother who Placed her baby.

00:41:48.458 --> 00:41:59.574
Um hoping for a better life for her child into the arms of these ecstatic Ecstatic This young couple, um, who had just been hoping and hoping and hoping and hoping for a baby.

00:42:00.173 --> 00:42:02.784
And, you know, they were watching the calendar.

00:42:03.233 --> 00:42:11.994
Um, to, to In hopes that the 30 days to expire to come through and the day before it did I got a call from birth mom That she had changed her mind.

00:42:12.043 --> 00:42:20.673
Well, so I had to call Adoptive mom who literally is like in the nursery with oh, wow And in the meantime birth mom is like nursing this baby and stuff.

00:42:20.684 --> 00:42:23.903
No, no, no No, okay, so they're separated babies with the adoptive family.

00:42:23.903 --> 00:42:24.224
Oh, wow.

00:42:24.224 --> 00:42:26.014
Okay moved in to her nursery.

00:42:26.384 --> 00:42:38.219
That's even worse in some ways horrible and um So I, I called the family to let them know this horrible news, um, and I couldn't get dad and so I broke the news to mom.

00:42:38.989 --> 00:42:43.329
And then dad, adoptive dad, then calls me, you know, mad.

00:42:43.498 --> 00:42:45.568
Why did you give that news to my wife?

00:42:45.568 --> 00:42:48.699
She, I didn't, I didn't want you to give that news to her.

00:42:48.748 --> 00:42:51.518
You know, give it to me and I'll try to do the best I can with it.

00:42:51.518 --> 00:42:55.759
I'm like, I'm so sorry, but that's the news and we're going to have to like, organize like a meet up.

00:42:55.759 --> 00:42:57.009
This is horrible and I'm sorry.

00:42:57.449 --> 00:43:12.228
So the baby spent, um, one more, uh, night, They met up, baby went to bio mom, um, who I'm sure, you know, I, I only know the story from adoptive parents, um, cause she didn't communicate with me all that much.

00:43:12.789 --> 00:43:22.528
She spent one night with her biological baby and then changed her mind back and gave the baby back to her parents who then got to raise her.

00:43:22.528 --> 00:43:29.438
But I mean, it just, I think that will always stay in my mind because of the emotions all around, right?

00:43:29.914 --> 00:43:30.474
All around.

00:43:30.583 --> 00:43:31.103
Interesting.

00:43:31.304 --> 00:43:31.653
Yeah.

00:43:31.684 --> 00:43:33.641
How long did you stick around that step in the journey?

00:43:33.641 --> 00:43:37.083
I only worked for that agency two and a half years or something like that.

00:43:37.083 --> 00:43:42.994
And then I became a social worker in Lawrence because I think I was maybe ready to start a family and I didn't want to commute to Kansas City anymore.

00:43:43.094 --> 00:43:44.423
Oh, did you meet Travis already?

00:43:44.563 --> 00:43:45.824
Yeah, I was his waitress.

00:43:46.103 --> 00:43:46.483
Okay.

00:43:46.684 --> 00:43:47.393
Tell me about that.

00:43:48.043 --> 00:43:52.543
Uh, we got married before we, before I even graduated from college.

00:43:52.724 --> 00:43:52.963
Okay.

00:43:52.974 --> 00:43:53.324
Um.

00:43:53.333 --> 00:43:53.353
So.

00:43:53.353 --> 00:43:56.309
Well, I'll leave that So, yeah, I was his waitress at First Watch in Lawrence, Kansas.

00:43:56.458 --> 00:43:57.219
Oh, First Watch.

00:43:57.369 --> 00:43:57.688
Yeah.

00:43:57.688 --> 00:43:58.789
Was it First Watch already?

00:43:58.789 --> 00:43:59.179
Oh, wow.

00:43:59.179 --> 00:43:59.838
Interesting.

00:44:01.023 --> 00:44:03.304
I had Raino Cesar from The Egg and I on here.

00:44:03.333 --> 00:44:08.233
I guess that would have been First Watch, it was before First Watch acquired all the Colorado stuff and whatever else.

00:44:08.534 --> 00:44:09.014
Okay, cool.

00:44:09.213 --> 00:44:10.313
So that's how we met.

00:44:10.414 --> 00:44:14.954
And then we got married, uh, right before my senior year of college.

00:44:15.474 --> 00:44:20.523
So I was still doing group homework when we were married and then got the adoption job.

00:44:20.943 --> 00:44:27.614
And then, yeah, so a few years into our marriage, I went back to Lawrence to get a nonprofit gig outside of adoption.

00:44:27.614 --> 00:44:29.574
And then Disability Services was a love.

00:44:29.983 --> 00:44:30.384
Oh, okay.

00:44:30.423 --> 00:44:35.474
And then I did that social work gig for about three years before I became the ED of that agency.

00:44:35.494 --> 00:44:35.903
Oh, okay.

00:44:35.963 --> 00:44:38.043
Um, and then stayed executive director for six years.

00:44:38.074 --> 00:44:43.364
So you went from front line right to the executive director in that, uh, tell me about that.

00:44:43.364 --> 00:44:45.333
Yeah, I was 26 when I became an executive director.

00:44:45.333 --> 00:44:48.213
And what was that, like, what was the circumstance there?

00:44:48.503 --> 00:44:48.784
Like.

00:44:49.304 --> 00:44:52.733
The circumstance was my boss was not doing a good job.

00:44:53.494 --> 00:44:58.414
And so I was doing her job, and the board asked you privately, what's going on here?

00:44:58.434 --> 00:45:10.753
I asked the board for a private meeting so that I could share with them a few insights into why they needed to do their jobs better, and as a result, they fired her and hired me.

00:45:11.414 --> 00:45:12.983
And I did not know that that was going to happen.

00:45:12.983 --> 00:45:14.364
I just wanted them to look alive.

00:45:15.273 --> 00:45:16.103
And I got that job.

00:45:16.494 --> 00:45:23.248
How, uh, how Like, I'm guessing that you weren't even really too scared to I wanted that job.

00:45:23.248 --> 00:45:24.188
I'd been doing it already.

00:45:26.039 --> 00:45:30.778
A lot of 26 year olds would be pretty intimidated to go tell this board that they're being a bunch of dummies.

00:45:31.059 --> 00:45:33.929
Yeah, it wasn't ideal to go around your boss's back.

00:45:33.929 --> 00:45:40.108
I didn't love that, but Well, I assume that you had confronted some of her behavior stuff directly with her or whatever.

00:45:40.208 --> 00:45:41.639
Yeah, it wasn't a win situation.

00:45:42.458 --> 00:45:48.324
Either she's gonna go or I'm gonna go and I'm doing her job, so what do you guys want to do?

00:45:50.003 --> 00:45:50.994
Sorry, that's not funny.

00:45:51.123 --> 00:45:51.554
Yeah.

00:45:51.583 --> 00:45:54.503
Do you want to, uh, call her out or anything like that?

00:45:54.503 --> 00:45:54.784
Just kidding.

00:45:55.914 --> 00:45:56.333
Kind, kind woman.

00:45:56.333 --> 00:45:58.443
Any of the board members that you'd like to say?

00:45:58.443 --> 00:45:58.463
No.

00:45:58.463 --> 00:45:59.273
They did a good job.

00:45:59.273 --> 00:45:59.594
Yeah.

00:45:59.713 --> 00:46:00.724
They actually acted.

00:46:00.764 --> 00:46:00.963
They did.

00:46:00.963 --> 00:46:01.273
Yeah.

00:46:01.304 --> 00:46:02.684
No, it's, uh, it's nice.

00:46:02.934 --> 00:46:03.063
Yeah.

00:46:03.123 --> 00:46:05.173
Was it a small organization?

00:46:05.184 --> 00:46:05.523
Tiny?

00:46:05.943 --> 00:46:06.414
It was.

00:46:06.454 --> 00:46:07.164
We grew it.

00:46:07.293 --> 00:46:07.503
Yeah.

00:46:07.643 --> 00:46:08.313
But, yeah.

00:46:08.534 --> 00:46:10.023
So how many years were you the director then?

00:46:10.233 --> 00:46:10.563
Six.

00:46:10.873 --> 00:46:11.244
Okay.

00:46:12.528 --> 00:46:15.579
Basically took us around to The mountains we're calling.

00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:19.068
Yeah, looking for places in Colorado and eventually finding one.

00:46:19.168 --> 00:46:19.318
Yep.

00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:22.139
What a neat career journey you've had so far.

00:46:22.219 --> 00:46:22.759
Yeah, I know, right?

00:46:22.878 --> 00:46:23.179
It's been great.

00:46:23.469 --> 00:46:27.559
Um, I'm gonna, uh, call for a short break.

00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:28.639
Cause I gotta go potty.

00:46:28.949 --> 00:46:29.128
Okay, sounds good.

00:46:29.148 --> 00:46:30.818
And my beer is almost empty.

00:46:30.818 --> 00:46:31.632
Do you want another beer?

00:46:31.632 --> 00:46:32.838
I'll drink mine.

00:46:32.838 --> 00:46:34.338
You haven't drank hardly any of yours yet.

00:46:34.338 --> 00:46:35.398
I've been keeping you talking too much.

00:46:35.398 --> 00:46:35.458
It's good.

00:46:35.818 --> 00:46:36.849
Alright, we'll be right back.

00:46:36.849 --> 00:46:37.108
Okay.

00:47:20.730 --> 00:47:23.480
And we're back again, and for real this time.

00:47:24.059 --> 00:47:25.579
Sorry about that exploding beer trick.

00:47:27.034 --> 00:47:30.074
Um, so, uh, do you know what's coming now?

00:47:30.074 --> 00:47:32.085
Did you read your format overview thing?

00:47:32.684 --> 00:47:34.545
I don't remember getting that.

00:47:34.795 --> 00:47:35.875
Oh, maybe I missed it.

00:47:36.125 --> 00:47:36.985
Maybe I didn't.

00:47:37.664 --> 00:47:37.914
Yeah.

00:47:37.954 --> 00:47:41.355
There's a guest release, uh, email and kind of format overview.

00:47:41.355 --> 00:47:42.079
I wondered.

00:47:42.150 --> 00:47:42.489
thing.

00:47:43.110 --> 00:47:44.219
But I might have forgotten to send it to you.

00:47:44.219 --> 00:47:45.679
We'll talk about whatever you want to talk about.

00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:45.929
Yeah.

00:47:46.250 --> 00:47:52.159
Well, so we're approaching the, uh, we always talk about faith, family, and politics in here.

00:47:52.329 --> 00:47:52.360
Okay.

00:47:52.769 --> 00:47:53.130
Yeah.

00:47:53.300 --> 00:47:59.019
And then we'll close with the loco experience, which is the craziest experience of your lifetime that you're willing to share.

00:47:59.150 --> 00:47:59.329
Cool.

00:47:59.909 --> 00:48:00.840
Live and in person here.

00:48:01.539 --> 00:48:12.730
Which, I mean, if we would have chosen to smoke that joint, then that would have been a pretty crazy experience for a, for a community and non profit leader that pretty much tries not to get busted when she's doing things like that.

00:48:14.789 --> 00:48:15.519
Should try harder.

00:48:20.135 --> 00:48:22.014
I could tell from the concerts I've seen you at.

00:48:22.085 --> 00:48:22.244
Yeah.

00:48:24.835 --> 00:48:25.605
I digress.

00:48:25.664 --> 00:48:25.934
Yes.

00:48:26.025 --> 00:48:29.144
Um, uh, do you have a preference of where we would start?

00:48:29.184 --> 00:48:32.014
Oh, let me get this silly paper towel roll off the table.

00:48:32.034 --> 00:48:32.235
Oh, okay.

00:48:32.244 --> 00:48:34.034
It's like, not quite blocking the camera.

00:48:34.675 --> 00:48:35.534
Yeah, it's a real place.

00:48:36.184 --> 00:48:38.525
Um, yeah, faith, family, or politics.

00:48:38.525 --> 00:48:39.965
Do you want to start with one of those?

00:48:39.965 --> 00:48:40.244
Yeah.

00:48:41.315 --> 00:48:41.824
Family.

00:48:42.025 --> 00:48:42.394
Okay.

00:48:42.835 --> 00:48:48.434
Uh, I wanted to ask about the, like picking up this cute guy at first watch.

00:48:48.605 --> 00:48:52.364
Um, tell me about that first conversation.

00:48:52.375 --> 00:48:52.985
Very cute.

00:48:53.494 --> 00:48:58.445
And I was his waitress with a group of people and I knew one of the girls that was at his table too.

00:48:58.445 --> 00:49:07.255
So we had kind of a mutual acquaintance, but I do remember going back in the kitchen to prep the drinks or whatever, and jumping up on the counter so that I could spy.

00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:11.940
See if he was, like, sitting by a girl he was with, or anything like that.

00:49:11.940 --> 00:49:25.030
I went back home, my roommate, I remember telling her, she's my best friend still, Debbie, I just, I was always telling her about the cute guys I served breakfast to, and this one I said, I just feel like I'm going to see him again.

00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:41.880
And then we did, and then, I think maybe the next time I bumped into him, he asked me out, and we Dated for maybe a year were engaged for six months and married within a year and a half nice Just just like that easy peasy pretty much.

00:49:41.940 --> 00:49:44.409
Yeah for the first Quite a while.

00:49:44.449 --> 00:49:56.409
Yeah, we've been married 23 years And well And then it usually usually after three to six years guys start to turn into an asshole and they need to have some correction Was that we both did that at more like 14 14 14.

00:49:56.960 --> 00:49:57.369
Okay.

00:49:57.610 --> 00:49:57.800
Yeah.

00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:00.929
Yeah, Jill I went seven really before we really Yeah.

00:50:00.969 --> 00:50:10.219
Butted heads and, you know, had something to do with me, like, becoming an entrepreneur and leaving a life of comfortable middle class banker stuff behind, I suppose.

00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:11.039
Yeah.

00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:16.050
It's nice to be on the other side of those times and still be together.

00:50:16.059 --> 00:50:16.369
Yeah.

00:50:16.429 --> 00:50:16.610
Yeah.

00:50:16.929 --> 00:50:19.300
No, it's a very galvanizing kind of thing.

00:50:19.769 --> 00:50:26.150
Um, what, uh, what was it that really set Travis apart from other boys that wanted to get your digits?

00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:28.050
Oh, he's so authentic.

00:50:28.050 --> 00:50:28.150
Yeah.

00:50:28.150 --> 00:50:28.250
Yeah.

00:50:28.250 --> 00:50:28.349
Yeah.

00:50:28.349 --> 00:50:28.670
Yeah.

00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:32.079
Uh, he doesn't put on any airs for anyone.

00:50:32.079 --> 00:50:33.349
He is always who he is.

00:50:33.579 --> 00:50:33.869
Yeah.

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:34.420
I dig it.

00:50:35.170 --> 00:50:38.760
Um, what would he say to the same question, do you suppose?

00:50:38.909 --> 00:50:40.110
Um, I don't know.

00:50:40.280 --> 00:50:41.659
I'm positive, usually.

00:50:41.690 --> 00:50:41.980
Yeah?

00:50:42.289 --> 00:50:42.789
Yeah.

00:50:42.949 --> 00:50:43.500
I think that's true.

00:50:43.510 --> 00:50:43.880
Um, yeah.

00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:45.719
Kind of like, cheerful.

00:50:45.769 --> 00:50:46.539
I guess happy.

00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:46.980
Okay.

00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:50.909
Um, can we talk more about your mom and dad?

00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:51.460
Sure.

00:50:52.099 --> 00:50:53.579
And we'll come back to Travis if you want to.

00:50:53.750 --> 00:50:53.780
Sure.

00:50:53.829 --> 00:50:56.369
You want to shower him with any more praises or love, anything?

00:50:56.380 --> 00:50:56.599
Yeah, he's great.

00:50:56.599 --> 00:50:57.550
Do you have a nickname for him?

00:50:58.050 --> 00:50:59.079
No, I just call him Trav.

00:50:59.300 --> 00:50:59.659
Okay.

00:51:00.289 --> 00:51:04.969
Um, how about, uh, Mom and Pops, uh, they're still with us?

00:51:04.969 --> 00:51:06.139
Yeah, they're still both around.

00:51:06.690 --> 00:51:16.949
Dad and Mom got divorced, I don't know, close to 15 years ago, uh, when I first started trying to move here, and it wasn't the right time for me to bail.

00:51:17.670 --> 00:51:20.670
Um, so yeah, Mom still lives in Lawrence, Kansas.

00:51:20.670 --> 00:51:21.400
She is doing great.

00:51:21.409 --> 00:51:22.719
Just had a big birthday.

00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:22.760
Okay.

00:51:23.170 --> 00:51:26.159
And then dad and his wife live in the Ozarks on Table Rock Lake.

00:51:26.730 --> 00:51:27.449
Just lovely.

00:51:27.630 --> 00:51:29.690
Tell me about, uh, Ozarks.

00:51:29.690 --> 00:51:31.260
Have you been out there to visit, I gather?

00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:31.800
Yep.

00:51:31.809 --> 00:51:34.150
And I worked at a camp when I was in college in the Ozarks.

00:51:34.190 --> 00:51:35.599
It's so beautiful down there.

00:51:35.610 --> 00:51:38.219
I guess it's not that far probably from Kansas City, right?

00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:38.989
Maybe Five hours?

00:51:39.010 --> 00:51:39.469
Yeah.

00:51:39.510 --> 00:51:39.789
Yeah.

00:51:39.789 --> 00:51:41.530
That's like the Black Hills from here, right?

00:51:41.539 --> 00:51:41.760
Yep.

00:51:41.889 --> 00:51:42.210
Yeah.

00:51:42.420 --> 00:51:44.420
Probably a similar kind of relationship.

00:51:44.644 --> 00:51:48.454
You know, it's this kind of not very well known place, but it's not that far away.

00:51:48.474 --> 00:51:48.815
Right.

00:51:48.875 --> 00:51:52.425
Close enough that he still goes back to Kansas City area for like poker nights sometimes.

00:51:52.425 --> 00:51:52.925
Oh, wow.

00:51:52.925 --> 00:51:53.434
Yeah, yeah.

00:51:53.875 --> 00:51:55.485
Um, yeah, I get to go visit him.

00:51:55.485 --> 00:51:58.244
He lives about an hour from my best friend who lives in Bentonville.

00:51:58.574 --> 00:52:00.715
And so in a couple weeks I'm going to go down and visit both of them.

00:52:00.824 --> 00:52:07.335
What would you say is, uh, one characteristic that, uh, transferred from both your mother and your father to you?

00:52:07.684 --> 00:52:09.045
My mom's is so easy.

00:52:09.054 --> 00:52:10.525
She's so compassionate.

00:52:10.675 --> 00:52:10.875
Yeah.

00:52:11.235 --> 00:52:16.304
Um, always had us run out iced tea for the garbage pickup crew.

00:52:16.715 --> 00:52:18.434
Just always looking out for her neighbors.

00:52:18.945 --> 00:52:21.764
Um, and I don't do that to the extent that she does.

00:52:21.764 --> 00:52:34.574
And then my dad, He is an entrepreneur and just wants to know how to do things better and like systems improvement and leadership.

00:52:35.375 --> 00:52:39.764
Would you have an interest in being an actual entrepreneur at some point in time?

00:52:39.784 --> 00:52:40.313
Is that intriguing to you?

00:52:40.313 --> 00:52:42.114
I really didn't view myself as one.

00:52:42.114 --> 00:52:42.525
I agree.

00:52:42.525 --> 00:52:46.695
It probably isn't fair just since my money isn't, I mean some of it is.

00:52:46.914 --> 00:52:49.945
You won't have to file bankruptcy if it doesn't work right.

00:52:49.945 --> 00:52:50.315
Right.

00:52:50.364 --> 00:52:50.664
Yeah.

00:52:50.664 --> 00:52:50.985
Yeah.

00:52:50.985 --> 00:52:52.244
Um, but I.

00:52:52.405 --> 00:52:54.525
I don't really care if it's like official or not.

00:52:54.554 --> 00:53:00.054
I feel that that spirit is, is fun and I appreciate it in other people so much too.

00:53:00.164 --> 00:53:00.554
Fair.

00:53:00.764 --> 00:53:01.284
I dig that.

00:53:01.744 --> 00:53:04.324
Um, how many, uh, littles do you have?

00:53:04.454 --> 00:53:05.244
We have two boys.

00:53:05.244 --> 00:53:06.574
They're 17 and 19.

00:53:06.655 --> 00:53:07.235
Oh, wow.

00:53:07.375 --> 00:53:08.014
They're not that little.

00:53:08.065 --> 00:53:08.985
Wow, I guess not.

00:53:08.985 --> 00:53:10.364
Yeah, they're about out of the nest.

00:53:10.485 --> 00:53:10.864
They are.

00:53:10.864 --> 00:53:11.525
One of them is.

00:53:11.795 --> 00:53:15.985
We, uh, we do a one word description of the children around here.

00:53:15.985 --> 00:53:16.344
Okay.

00:53:16.619 --> 00:53:23.889
Um, would you care to effort that on, uh, and, and give him a name and a, a little more color if you'd, if you'd care to.

00:53:24.500 --> 00:53:26.750
Walker is my younger kid.

00:53:26.750 --> 00:53:30.019
He's 17 and he's at Rocky starting his senior year.

00:53:30.730 --> 00:53:33.389
Um, I'm going to give him the word funny.

00:53:33.389 --> 00:53:39.039
Oh, he's got a quiet humor that comes out that, uh, we'll just knock you down.

00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:44.239
It's, um, I'm thinking about a couple of people that fit that description in my own life right now.

00:53:44.269 --> 00:53:44.989
He's an engineer.

00:53:45.050 --> 00:53:45.949
There's no doubt.

00:53:45.949 --> 00:53:47.199
Like I was born a social worker.

00:53:47.309 --> 00:53:56.000
He is born an engineer, but like with this, like unexpected, like just perfect delivery.

00:53:56.599 --> 00:53:58.130
Uh, and then Jackson.

00:53:59.025 --> 00:54:00.135
He's very thoughtful.

00:54:00.494 --> 00:54:00.775
Yeah.

00:54:00.775 --> 00:54:01.375
Mm hmm.

00:54:01.775 --> 00:54:02.775
And what's Jackson up to?

00:54:02.775 --> 00:54:03.574
You said he's out of the house now.

00:54:03.574 --> 00:54:06.954
We just moved him, uh, he's starting his sophomore year at CU.

00:54:07.184 --> 00:54:07.414
Okay.

00:54:07.425 --> 00:54:08.804
That's gonna be his first year at CU.

00:54:08.824 --> 00:54:11.815
And we just moved him last week into a house with his buddies.

00:54:11.864 --> 00:54:12.215
Okay.

00:54:12.505 --> 00:54:12.934
Okay.

00:54:13.094 --> 00:54:14.804
So, super fun year ahead of, for him.

00:54:14.864 --> 00:54:19.125
Does he like CU more, or he just wanted to be at least a little ways out of town, but not too far away?

00:54:19.125 --> 00:54:19.195
He's super excited.

00:54:19.264 --> 00:54:21.264
started college last year at CSU.

00:54:21.414 --> 00:54:28.635
Oh, and just like had like a very mediocre year, like the social opportunities didn't quite hit.

00:54:28.675 --> 00:54:32.844
I think like we were expecting them to based on our experience.

00:54:33.315 --> 00:54:39.844
So his friends in Boulder had a great time and now he's going to go, he got into the business school and so he's going to go do that.

00:54:40.224 --> 00:54:41.144
And I'm excited for him.

00:54:41.315 --> 00:54:41.684
Dig it.

00:54:42.224 --> 00:54:45.505
Um, Anything else that comes to mind when I say family?

00:54:45.505 --> 00:54:51.264
You got doggers, or cats, or I said goodbye to both of my old dogs in the last two years.

00:54:51.264 --> 00:54:51.625
Oh, wow.

00:54:51.655 --> 00:54:53.715
And then got two new dogs.

00:54:53.775 --> 00:54:54.105
Okay.

00:54:54.264 --> 00:54:58.105
And so, I like having two at a time, because they just play, and they're best friends.

00:54:58.105 --> 00:54:58.284
Yeah, yeah.

00:54:58.284 --> 00:54:58.775
You know, so.

00:54:59.454 --> 00:55:00.864
What kind of flavored critters?

00:55:01.264 --> 00:55:03.275
Right now we have, Penny is a Lab.

00:55:03.324 --> 00:55:04.275
She's a Yellow Lab.

00:55:04.525 --> 00:55:06.275
And then we got a Rescue Murphy.

00:55:06.315 --> 00:55:07.445
He's only 9 months old.

00:55:07.695 --> 00:55:10.554
And I think he is like a White Australian Shepherd.

00:55:10.655 --> 00:55:11.065
Oh cool.

00:55:11.105 --> 00:55:11.655
Mostly.

00:55:11.695 --> 00:55:12.744
They said Lab Mix.

00:55:12.784 --> 00:55:13.425
He's not that.

00:55:14.545 --> 00:55:15.065
Uh, but he is.

00:55:15.190 --> 00:55:16.170
It's so cute and so fun.

00:55:16.570 --> 00:55:20.469
Do you guys still go camping and doing stuff out in the country a lot?

00:55:20.469 --> 00:55:21.630
Yep.

00:55:21.630 --> 00:55:22.840
I love my garden.

00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:29.730
I love to be, I have a big backyard with chickens and my garden and my dogs and I just feel really grateful to get to have every morning out there.

00:55:30.019 --> 00:55:31.090
It's so peaceful and lovely.

00:55:31.449 --> 00:55:33.840
Hatched my own chicks for the first time this year.

00:55:33.860 --> 00:55:34.599
Oh, you did?

00:55:34.940 --> 00:55:35.829
They're doing great.

00:55:35.969 --> 00:55:36.250
Awesome.

00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:37.929
I love seeing them all three of them.

00:55:38.099 --> 00:55:42.380
I only have three babies and I don't know six others but so that's been good.

00:55:42.420 --> 00:55:44.179
Isn't six the limit I think?

00:55:44.199 --> 00:55:46.170
Six is the limit in Fort Collins.

00:55:46.219 --> 00:55:47.130
Oh you're out of the country.

00:55:47.300 --> 00:55:47.639
Yeah.

00:55:47.739 --> 00:55:48.079
Oh you're on.

00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:50.710
I mean we live in town but we live in this little carve out like.

00:55:52.144 --> 00:55:54.105
Is that like a fine or something like that?

00:55:54.105 --> 00:55:55.474
No, it's at Horsetooth and Shields.

00:55:55.824 --> 00:55:57.780
Oh yeah, I know the neighborhood there.

00:55:57.780 --> 00:55:58.585
Yeah.

00:55:58.585 --> 00:56:01.114
Yeah, that's an interesting, uh, thing.

00:56:01.175 --> 00:56:01.905
You're so lucky.

00:56:01.954 --> 00:56:02.744
We are.

00:56:02.744 --> 00:56:07.125
We've never really talked about chickens and farming and much.

00:56:07.574 --> 00:56:07.815
A little bit.

00:56:08.114 --> 00:56:08.445
Yeah.

00:56:08.505 --> 00:56:10.545
What's your, what's your pride in your garden?

00:56:10.775 --> 00:56:13.195
Uh, space, like is there something that you're really good at growing?

00:56:13.195 --> 00:56:15.025
Jalapenos are really hitting this year.

00:56:15.094 --> 00:56:15.735
Really?

00:56:15.844 --> 00:56:18.255
Man, I'm gonna have to drink a lot of jalapeno limes.

00:56:20.534 --> 00:56:21.074
Like a lot.

00:56:23.994 --> 00:56:26.224
I'm growing good peppers for the first time this year.

00:56:26.224 --> 00:56:31.460
I've got a poblano and an anaheim, and I've harvested a bunch of anaheims already, and it's got just full of peppers.

00:56:31.460 --> 00:56:31.639
Right.

00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:36.300
My serrano's too, and shishitos.

00:56:36.300 --> 00:56:42.460
I've always struggled with peppers, but this year, I'm a tomato guy normally, but this year my peppers are rocking it, as well as my tomatoes.

00:56:42.469 --> 00:56:51.320
So, um, if you were going to give, uh, gardening advice to the uninitiated, what, where would you start?

00:56:51.954 --> 00:56:52.985
Gosh, I don't know.

00:56:53.264 --> 00:56:54.014
Uh, weed.

00:56:54.164 --> 00:56:54.635
Weed it?

00:56:55.755 --> 00:56:59.344
I didn't used to do that too much because I don't, I didn't like it, but it does pay off.

00:57:00.195 --> 00:57:05.534
Drip, drip sprinklers that go right on the plants is way better because then the weeds don't actually grow.

00:57:06.284 --> 00:57:07.784
Uh, yes.

00:57:07.864 --> 00:57:10.065
And, uh, chicken shit.

00:57:10.644 --> 00:57:11.094
Yeah.

00:57:11.264 --> 00:57:12.275
Oh, and lots of nitrogen.

00:57:12.324 --> 00:57:13.304
Very good fertilizer.

00:57:14.284 --> 00:57:14.815
Fair enough.

00:57:15.344 --> 00:57:17.264
Um, what else in the family?

00:57:17.264 --> 00:57:21.775
Is there any like, You mentioned, uh, Debbie, I think, earlier.

00:57:21.775 --> 00:57:25.454
Is there any gal pals or otherwise that are like family for you?

00:57:25.494 --> 00:57:26.994
You know what, this will lead us into faith.

00:57:27.155 --> 00:57:27.405
Sure.

00:57:27.414 --> 00:57:40.610
Um, I, um, wasn't raised in the church, uh, I became a believer when I was at KU, and so then Before meeting Travis, I guess.

00:57:40.630 --> 00:57:41.900
Yep, before meeting Travis.

00:57:42.659 --> 00:57:48.159
And so then I was, I am a, I'm still a Christian, but I have left the church.

00:57:48.409 --> 00:57:48.679
Okay.

00:57:48.980 --> 00:57:52.320
Um, and so, but that has just kind of recently happened.

00:57:52.329 --> 00:57:55.190
We were avid churchgoers when we lived in Lawrence.

00:57:55.590 --> 00:58:06.199
I was on the board of our church, and then After Travis worked at Kohler Faucets, the pastor recruited him to fill the youth pastor role.

00:58:06.510 --> 00:58:12.030
So we were both youth leaders and, um, so then he actually went on staff for a few years.

00:58:12.260 --> 00:58:15.389
Just really, that was a big part of our lives in Lawrence.

00:58:15.800 --> 00:58:22.590
Um, we're small group leaders, had a lot of, Just, um, richness added to our lives from our small groups.

00:58:22.789 --> 00:58:27.909
And so then we, we tried to get that kind of same thing happening here in Fort Collins.

00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:30.769
And went to a lot of different churches.

00:58:31.070 --> 00:58:33.860
Um, ended up at Vineyard for a while.

00:58:34.139 --> 00:58:36.019
Um, tried to be small group leaders there.

00:58:36.030 --> 00:58:39.570
And it just kind of wasn't, it felt a little bit more maybe like a Kansas thing.

00:58:39.650 --> 00:58:40.590
Forced somehow?

00:58:40.619 --> 00:58:45.239
I don't know, like, Yeah, so we just tried, and then it just like didn't work.

00:58:45.530 --> 00:58:59.940
And then, we were pretty disappointed, that's a vast understatement, in um, Evangelical America's love of Donald Trump, and we left the church over it.

00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:00.750
Really?

00:59:01.369 --> 00:59:09.920
Oh, but I, that seems You know, I think there's a lot of churches that don't love Donald Trump too, right?

00:59:10.170 --> 00:59:21.690
And it is a very interesting marriage But I it seems to me like Donald Trump isn't important enough to I know I know this up here in my brain But you still love Jesus.

00:59:21.860 --> 00:59:23.530
Yeah, he's cool, right?

00:59:23.579 --> 00:59:28.019
I do miss the fellowship I miss the guiding light that I'm like focusing on.

00:59:28.219 --> 00:59:28.349
Yeah.

00:59:28.349 --> 00:59:35.530
Yeah and the structure around You Something, but I, so far at this moment in my life, I do not miss organized religion.

00:59:35.619 --> 00:59:35.679
Yeah.

00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:40.090
I don't miss this like vibe that we know more than you.

00:59:40.389 --> 00:59:40.420
Mm.

00:59:40.420 --> 00:59:42.550
And we have it figured out and you don't Mm.

00:59:42.760 --> 00:59:44.650
You should come to our church sometime.

00:59:44.769 --> 00:59:45.190
Yeah.

00:59:45.309 --> 00:59:47.380
Uh, our, our pastors Mm-Hmm.

00:59:47.619 --> 00:59:50.559
generally are comfortable mocking both the Yeah.

00:59:50.920 --> 00:59:52.780
Former president and the current president.

00:59:52.784 --> 00:59:52.934
Yeah.

00:59:53.315 --> 00:59:56.454
um, from the pulpit and, and it's, it's about his.

00:59:57.175 --> 01:00:07.244
non dogmatic as a church that I've been able to find a very little, you know, a loose kinship with other kind of sister churches and stuff, but not much, a whole lot of.

01:00:07.974 --> 01:00:12.385
Uh, humility, like part of our church, we, we have like four different pastors.

01:00:13.034 --> 01:00:20.344
Because if you just have one pastor, then that son of a bitch is going to get all egotistical, probably have an affair, and then fuck up the whole church, and it's going to fall apart.

01:00:20.505 --> 01:00:22.945
And he doesn't have anybody to tell him he's being a dumbass.

01:00:23.215 --> 01:00:30.775
So we have those kind of solutions set up to recognize the, anyway, open invitation if reinvestigate.

01:00:31.215 --> 01:00:32.945
And we've got a pretty good small group community.

01:00:33.335 --> 01:00:33.534
Thank you.

01:00:33.684 --> 01:00:34.054
That's cool.

01:00:34.074 --> 01:00:34.835
Better than most.

01:00:35.219 --> 01:00:37.730
Although Jill and I are total slackers with it, sorry.

01:00:37.809 --> 01:00:39.670
Sorry, the after party life group.

01:00:41.014 --> 01:00:43.735
You know, you, you just need to find what is right for you.

01:00:43.735 --> 01:00:45.505
And I'm still on that journey.

01:00:45.525 --> 01:00:53.175
And hopefully a lot of people are taking time in their lives to figure out their spiritual lives and not overlooking it because it is this huge part of who we are.

01:00:53.885 --> 01:01:04.715
Um, and so in lieu of that fellowship that I was used to having, I did back to friendship, my own, what I, what we call soul circle.

01:01:04.715 --> 01:01:05.054
Okay.

01:01:05.135 --> 01:01:19.630
So I pulled a few, just like really like soulful, sweet hearted people that I knew women and we get together only every other month, which is not often enough for me, but it is where the group kind of feels like we can meet.

01:01:20.210 --> 01:01:24.530
And we do talk about like, um, just philosophical.

01:01:24.530 --> 01:01:26.690
We read, we read various books together.

01:01:26.889 --> 01:01:28.550
It isn't Christian based.

01:01:28.780 --> 01:01:33.429
It's more, um, But it's not a Christian exclusionary either, I presume.

01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:33.760
No.

01:01:34.130 --> 01:01:34.349
Yeah.

01:01:34.349 --> 01:01:34.679
Interesting.

01:01:34.690 --> 01:01:40.429
But it is just to honor that, like, part of our soul that otherwise isn't, like, nourished.

01:01:40.510 --> 01:01:44.230
Oh, we get pretty lonely, uh, if we just put ourselves on little islands and stuff.

01:01:44.260 --> 01:01:45.030
Or even Yeah.

01:01:45.619 --> 01:01:55.659
And I think to your point, you know, like, I know, I know so many Christians who, who are not Trump supporters and they, they don't believe that he exhibits the fruits of the spirit.

01:01:56.199 --> 01:02:00.780
But, but I just, I am still needing to move.

01:02:01.155 --> 01:02:04.914
Past the fact that where was the unified response?

01:02:04.954 --> 01:02:13.664
Where was the loud voice when he started holding up Bibles and things and just really I think not Exhibiting the traits of Jesus.

01:02:14.125 --> 01:02:22.380
I just wish that there would have been a more you not united Voice that said no that is in it.

01:02:22.789 --> 01:02:23.730
Yeah, that's fair.

01:02:23.829 --> 01:02:24.300
That's fair.

01:02:24.780 --> 01:02:29.250
Um, I watched his, uh, RNC acceptance speech.

01:02:29.250 --> 01:02:31.989
It's the first time I've ever watched Donald Trump's like talk.

01:02:32.389 --> 01:02:33.199
I don't know if you watched it.

01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:33.940
Presumably not.

01:02:35.989 --> 01:02:44.054
This is gonna sound a little bit weird, but I think I think he kind of found Jesus when that bullet nicked his ear For one hot second, Kurt.

01:02:44.105 --> 01:02:44.934
Maybe for a minute.

01:02:44.945 --> 01:02:46.105
He calmed himself down.

01:02:46.114 --> 01:02:46.605
Right.

01:02:46.784 --> 01:02:48.684
But then he started going off script again.

01:02:48.704 --> 01:02:49.364
I think so.

01:02:49.445 --> 01:02:49.954
I don't know.

01:02:51.364 --> 01:02:52.114
I don't know.

01:02:52.144 --> 01:02:52.844
I don't know either.

01:02:53.704 --> 01:02:59.784
Yeah, my, my, uh, I voted for Kanye, uh, last election and I don't know what I'm gonna do this time.

01:03:00.105 --> 01:03:00.505
I really don't.

01:03:01.664 --> 01:03:16.715
But I tell people sometimes, especially when I'm I'm just having these kind of conversations that, you know, yes, Trump's a egomaniac and a narcissist, but like, it gives me some level of comfort to think he's trying to do a good job and not just corrupt.

01:03:16.715 --> 01:03:22.364
Like it seems like the rest of our political class largely, yeah, I think he's only looking out for number one.

01:03:22.514 --> 01:03:24.255
Are we shifting into politics now?

01:03:24.704 --> 01:03:25.204
Sounds like it.

01:03:25.445 --> 01:03:36.684
Um, how do you feel about, not just how do you feel about Kamala, but how do you feel about, I would like to say, how do you feel about the process by which, um, Kamala entered the, the contest?

01:03:36.695 --> 01:03:46.755
Like, that's been bothering me, how they didn't even go to the, to the electors, to the convention and have some kind of a conversation, it was really just a lining up of, okay, here we are.

01:03:46.835 --> 01:03:48.284
Well, I mean, she already was on the ticket.

01:03:48.635 --> 01:03:48.885
True.

01:03:49.045 --> 01:03:51.315
They kind of had to, in some ways.

01:03:51.364 --> 01:03:51.735
Yeah.

01:03:51.784 --> 01:03:53.585
I think to me, that's kind of the determining factor.

01:03:53.585 --> 01:03:54.355
But then I think there's.

01:03:54.369 --> 01:04:02.110
It still was a process, because I just read a headline, maybe yesterday, that said she got enough of the electoral votes, or Right, but that came well after.

01:04:02.159 --> 01:04:03.739
After, after she was identified.

01:04:04.110 --> 01:04:04.300
Kind of.

01:04:04.619 --> 01:04:09.690
You know, she was kind of put into the place, you know, as the best available alternative.

01:04:09.719 --> 01:04:10.150
Uh huh.

01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:11.909
I mean, that's what a vice president is.

01:04:12.010 --> 01:04:19.025
I would imagine that people You're more enthusiastic about supporting Kamala than, uh, Biden, uh, would have been.

01:04:19.925 --> 01:04:25.614
I mean, I don't know how a person could be less enthusiastic about somebody than Biden showed himself to be in the last few months.

01:04:26.494 --> 01:04:36.445
What I've seen, I think at all levels of government in the last five years is the priority feels like it's on re election.

01:04:36.744 --> 01:04:37.144
Totally.

01:04:37.255 --> 01:04:38.235
More than anything else.

01:04:38.235 --> 01:04:38.724
Totally.

01:04:38.724 --> 01:04:38.900
Totally.

01:04:39.190 --> 01:04:40.860
And that is unfortunate.

01:04:40.889 --> 01:04:50.789
That's how we get these programs that are just about end result numbers instead of actual outcomes, because it's all about that, like, talking point and reelection.

01:04:51.719 --> 01:04:55.090
So yeah, that Biden is a politician, you know?

01:04:55.119 --> 01:05:12.409
I mean, this is a hard one right here, but it, It, it makes me feel like they hid how, uh, much Biden had declined because they maybe even had a plan to put Harris in place instead, but she wouldn't have made it through a primary process.

01:05:12.469 --> 01:05:12.789
Maybe.

01:05:13.340 --> 01:05:21.369
Um, especially not against an RFK or some of the other potential candidates, um, which feels kind of nefarious.

01:05:21.449 --> 01:05:25.400
Like that's not to like, you don't have that sensation necessarily.

01:05:25.400 --> 01:05:28.349
You're like, I had not the Biden debate.

01:05:28.420 --> 01:05:28.800
I don't know.

01:05:29.090 --> 01:05:30.280
That's it's possible.

01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:31.519
I had never really thought about it.

01:05:31.860 --> 01:05:34.329
It doesn't feel like Biden was really running in good faith.

01:05:34.349 --> 01:05:41.130
Like they protected him from all fronts, from anybody else running, um, you know, through the party apparatus and whatever else.

01:05:41.230 --> 01:05:50.380
And so, yeah, I mean, trying to script your candidate and hope they stay within these confines is what these.

01:05:51.130 --> 01:05:58.119
Speechwriters do, you know, they are hoping that Trump and Biden read the prompter, right?

01:05:59.789 --> 01:06:12.500
One of the things that, that concerns me in the political realm is, I guess, just what that is, you know, what is that thing that has Biden say just the right words and stuff like that?

01:06:12.530 --> 01:06:17.630
Like, um, is that something that you think about or you don't really spend too much time?

01:06:18.579 --> 01:06:37.960
Just wondering what the, okay, like, um, like who's putting the words on the teleprompter for what Biden should say, you know, and, and, and who's, Who's influencing Trump's policy, you know, who's he gonna owe if he gets elected, who's Kamala gonna owe if she gets elected?

01:06:38.659 --> 01:06:44.030
Just all of the, kind of, the corruptible ness of it.

01:06:44.260 --> 01:06:55.550
Like, do you have any ideas for what, like, you know, people talk about term limits, they talk about this and that, you know, the two parties, the duopoly, right, which is largely an oligarchy at this point.

01:06:55.550 --> 01:06:58.559
I mean, have you seen some of the censorship stuff that, you No.

01:06:58.559 --> 01:06:59.739
Google's doing on Trump?

01:06:59.909 --> 01:07:00.699
No.

01:07:00.849 --> 01:07:01.460
Oh, man.

01:07:01.460 --> 01:07:04.659
If you, if you Google, you know how it fills out the rest of the line for you?

01:07:04.829 --> 01:07:05.110
Uh huh.

01:07:05.150 --> 01:07:12.980
If you Google, uh, attempted assassination on T R U M, it will say Truman and it won't say Trump.

01:07:13.449 --> 01:07:13.849
Hmm.

01:07:14.090 --> 01:07:14.480
Uh.

01:07:14.619 --> 01:07:15.360
What's the benefit there?

01:07:15.820 --> 01:07:20.559
Well, then you don't get to, like, see how a Trumpist survived an assassination attempt.

01:07:20.719 --> 01:07:23.590
Well, but yeah, you do because you didn't just type in M P.

01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:24.710
Correct.

01:07:24.739 --> 01:07:28.889
But it's still, or if you Google, um, Trump rally.

01:07:29.664 --> 01:07:35.690
Uh, At least last weekend, it was the first like four results for Kamala Harris rally in Atlanta.

01:07:37.300 --> 01:07:39.360
So Google's actively.

01:07:39.619 --> 01:07:39.940
Okay.

01:07:39.989 --> 01:07:42.829
And you think that's coming from Google Kamala's team?

01:07:42.900 --> 01:07:44.289
No, SEO.

01:07:44.519 --> 01:07:46.239
Oh, that's an interesting thing.

01:07:46.719 --> 01:07:47.769
I wonder, I don't know.

01:07:48.260 --> 01:07:49.130
That's a good question.

01:07:49.130 --> 01:07:55.349
I, you know, I would assume that I, how could it possibly be that fast, that good, but maybe it is.

01:07:55.349 --> 01:07:58.360
Yeah, they plant, plant those word things SEO.

01:07:58.400 --> 01:08:00.329
That's an interesting, I hadn't really considered that.

01:08:00.329 --> 01:08:03.840
I, I kind of thought it was direct nefarious.

01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:05.090
Um, but you might be right.

01:08:05.090 --> 01:08:08.460
It might be just be better at, they're certainly dominating the tick tocks right now.

01:08:08.630 --> 01:08:08.900
Yeah.

01:08:08.940 --> 01:08:15.090
So Harris is getting her message out in the, the Gen X or Gen Zers are going to probably turn out.

01:08:15.454 --> 01:08:17.925
pretty big and potentially tip it for Harris at this point.

01:08:17.925 --> 01:08:22.425
When she raised her first week, like 300 million, you know, we were all pretty relieved.

01:08:23.864 --> 01:08:25.555
Someone who can vote, who can beat Trump.

01:08:25.574 --> 01:08:33.465
Well, I think Trump probably was relieved too, because otherwise he would have never survived it through to the election, the way things were shaping up with the Secret Service protection he had.

01:08:33.564 --> 01:08:33.795
Oh, right.

01:08:34.444 --> 01:08:35.425
How, what do you feel about that?

01:08:35.435 --> 01:08:36.935
Like, do you think that was an inside job?

01:08:37.619 --> 01:08:41.579
Mmm, I don't, I, see, I'm not quite as, um, Or just super incompetent.

01:08:41.579 --> 01:08:42.289
Or just incompetent.

01:08:42.289 --> 01:08:43.520
I'm a tinfoil hat guy, man.

01:08:43.529 --> 01:08:44.840
I'm all the way over there.

01:08:44.840 --> 01:08:45.340
Yeah.

01:08:45.579 --> 01:08:48.856
It seemed like a lot of incompetence to have that building not covered.

01:08:48.856 --> 01:08:51.210
At least a lot of incompetence.

01:08:51.489 --> 01:08:51.840
Fair.

01:08:52.189 --> 01:08:54.029
Anything else on politics you want to talk about?

01:08:54.409 --> 01:09:01.069
Um, we don't have to go national, we can talk local politics, uh, jobs, we can talk anything.

01:09:01.090 --> 01:09:02.239
Land, land use code.

01:09:02.460 --> 01:09:02.800
Okay.

01:09:02.800 --> 01:09:08.460
I was, I was super involved in our, in our density conversation in Fort Collins and, and just how it relates to housing.

01:09:08.470 --> 01:09:12.829
So you're happy about the fact that Colorado kind of superseded on the U plus 2 or?

01:09:12.840 --> 01:09:13.949
I am on that one, yes.

01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:14.409
Yeah.

01:09:14.529 --> 01:09:14.840
Yeah.

01:09:14.890 --> 01:09:15.800
I'm kind of mixed.

01:09:15.810 --> 01:09:16.250
Yeah.

01:09:16.399 --> 01:09:16.720
On it.

01:09:16.729 --> 01:09:20.539
Like I don't, I feel like you should have as much local control as is practical.

01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:21.010
Uh huh.

01:09:21.279 --> 01:09:23.039
And I thought that particular ordinance was.

01:09:23.354 --> 01:09:24.274
Was crappy.

01:09:24.364 --> 01:09:24.885
Outdated.

01:09:25.234 --> 01:09:25.685
Right.

01:09:25.765 --> 01:09:26.385
Exactly.

01:09:26.395 --> 01:09:30.045
And well, and just property rights limited, like for what cause.

01:09:30.064 --> 01:09:30.335
Yeah.

01:09:30.345 --> 01:09:42.739
Um, and so I was, Glad it went away, I think it was the right decision, but I didn't, I don't really feel like the state of Colorado should have the power to tell cities what to do, and local communities, HOAs, right?

01:09:42.739 --> 01:09:44.289
We don't even have HOAs anymore.

01:09:44.430 --> 01:09:45.300
Well, we still do.

01:09:45.350 --> 01:09:51.029
But, a lot of their powers have been, significantly.

01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:51.060
Yeah.

01:09:51.664 --> 01:09:54.984
You know, and that's just the state taking those powers, basically.

01:09:55.194 --> 01:09:55.984
Yeah.

01:09:56.465 --> 01:09:56.574
Yeah.

01:09:56.574 --> 01:10:01.664
To, to, I, I'm, I think I'm skeptical on to what degree are we really gonna see changes at the HOA level.

01:10:01.715 --> 01:10:01.975
I wonder.

01:10:01.975 --> 01:10:03.984
You might see some ADUs in the backyard.

01:10:03.984 --> 01:10:04.175
Right.

01:10:04.175 --> 01:10:04.375
Right.

01:10:04.404 --> 01:10:06.164
You might see some parking minimums come down.

01:10:06.194 --> 01:10:06.465
Yeah.

01:10:06.774 --> 01:10:14.944
Um, but I think the HOA is still gonna be strong, and what color I can paint my house And, you know, all of the first world problems that HOAs love to really delve into.

01:10:16.255 --> 01:10:22.765
Have you seen some of those YouTube, like, the dude Karens that come and they're the HOA president and stuff like that?

01:10:22.835 --> 01:10:23.824
Yes, they're, right.

01:10:23.845 --> 01:10:28.645
We, we moved out of an HOA neighborhood on purpose, and that was like our number one criteria.

01:10:28.755 --> 01:10:34.725
Number one was rocky school, second was no HOA, and, but they're on the other side of the fence from us.

01:10:34.795 --> 01:10:35.539
And it's, it's crazy.

01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:37.899
It's amusing watching it from over there.

01:10:37.939 --> 01:10:38.449
Yeah, yeah.

01:10:38.770 --> 01:10:51.260
Um, but you know, the local control, we had an opportunity in Fort Collins for Fort Collins voters to support CSU's property rights with Hughes Stadium.

01:10:51.659 --> 01:11:01.095
And what we saw happen, you know, on local on that local level was They didn't grant CSU their own property rights to build housing on their own land.

01:11:01.104 --> 01:11:02.734
The voters took that away from them.

01:11:02.734 --> 01:11:07.715
So, in a way, I feel like it's a balance between Sure, I don't agree with that either.

01:11:08.475 --> 01:11:08.914
That's fair.

01:11:08.984 --> 01:11:09.545
It wasn't.

01:11:09.984 --> 01:11:10.654
What was supposed to happen.

01:11:10.944 --> 01:11:11.505
I don't think right.

01:11:11.505 --> 01:11:11.835
Yeah.

01:11:11.835 --> 01:11:13.885
No, I think it would have been better.

01:11:14.034 --> 01:11:15.784
Yeah Right.

01:11:16.484 --> 01:11:17.015
I agree.

01:11:17.595 --> 01:11:18.255
Yeah, that's fair.

01:11:18.385 --> 01:11:21.875
Yeah Other political hot buttons that you'd like to touch.

01:11:24.145 --> 01:11:27.024
Yeah, I pretty much just stay in the housing world.

01:11:27.305 --> 01:11:36.229
Yeah, it's plenty for me Let's see, is there anything that Your board would be really upset if we talked about one way or the other.

01:11:36.520 --> 01:11:36.859
Just kidding.

01:11:36.970 --> 01:11:37.600
They're used to me.

01:11:38.329 --> 01:11:48.079
I, uh, I, uh, my blog last month, somebody, one of my former members called me and was discussing it and stuff and, uh, from a positive.

01:11:49.215 --> 01:11:59.034
Um, and, uh, I said, I think I said the line at one point, my, my goal was to offend and endear every reader, uh, through the course of this blog.

01:11:59.744 --> 01:12:05.345
He's like, I think you probably hit that pretty close, which isn't easy, which is not easy.

01:12:06.234 --> 01:12:12.180
Um, I, I, I have tea every morning and it has a little, tag that has inspiration on it.

01:12:12.199 --> 01:12:18.500
And one of the statements, one of the inspirations is, um, realize the other person is you.

01:12:19.270 --> 01:12:20.090
I love that.

01:12:20.300 --> 01:12:26.260
I think what it means is, you know, you might see things differently, but if you had lived their life, You'd be them.

01:12:26.369 --> 01:12:27.350
Yeah, you'd be the other person.

01:12:27.380 --> 01:12:27.819
Right.

01:12:27.850 --> 01:12:28.029
Yeah.

01:12:28.029 --> 01:12:37.210
Yeah, and so just trying to remember our shared humanity And we all come with just unique backgrounds, but yeah, yeah, are you?

01:12:38.130 --> 01:12:48.244
Let's let's talk about DEI kind of stuff like like the conservative argument is that you know, America's awesome because we're a meritocracy.

01:12:49.034 --> 01:12:49.385
Right.

01:12:49.404 --> 01:13:00.104
And then the, the, I guess the DEI kind of argument is, Hey, we're stronger if we can involve people from outside the traditional power classes in.

01:13:00.175 --> 01:13:00.524
Right.

01:13:00.604 --> 01:13:08.835
Well, and we're awesome if you were born white and if you were born where your parents had the opportunity to be homeowners.

01:13:09.640 --> 01:13:10.510
And Right, right.

01:13:10.510 --> 01:13:11.739
Accrue economic success.

01:13:11.739 --> 01:13:15.699
So such a different, again, such a different set of experiences.

01:13:15.819 --> 01:13:16.510
A hundred percent.

01:13:16.510 --> 01:13:29.550
And you know, like, um, Alma, who I mentioned, you know, she was telling me that for her like younger years, like they were living with other families for a lot of years and stuff, and I'm so proud of how much Mm-Hmm.

01:13:29.789 --> 01:13:31.859
progress she has made and, and she earned every.

01:13:32.369 --> 01:13:32.699
Bit of it.

01:13:32.699 --> 01:13:33.609
It's a meritocracy.

01:13:33.609 --> 01:13:37.140
You know, she came in with no experience and only a few skills.

01:13:38.069 --> 01:13:45.649
And like, if you water that down, it's kind of like that, those long term housing support programs that here's your rent money until it's gone.

01:13:45.699 --> 01:13:46.159
You know?

01:13:46.590 --> 01:13:47.069
So yeah.

01:13:47.069 --> 01:14:02.000
Talk to me about that tension, I guess, of both, like, how do you achieve a culture where you can both have people invited in to the economic conversation, from outside, um, and.

01:14:02.600 --> 01:14:09.430
maintain a, you know, a culture of excellence for, you know, not have doors fly off of airplanes all the time and stuff like that.

01:14:09.430 --> 01:14:09.869
Right.

01:14:10.189 --> 01:14:23.539
Well, I think it's about opportunity and we all want to have opportunity and we all want our kids to have the opportunity to meet their full potential.

01:14:23.859 --> 01:14:30.720
And there are systems at play and have been in American history that have prevented people from having their full opportunity.

01:14:31.850 --> 01:14:35.340
We haven't really been taught that very, very well.

01:14:35.819 --> 01:14:43.859
Um, so then I think what you get is this, like, vastly different understanding of, of the realities.

01:14:44.039 --> 01:14:52.074
And the white person is saying, wait, I bring, I bring this set of experience, which is, pouring over with privilege.

01:14:52.515 --> 01:14:56.335
Well, and a lot of, but a lot of white people don't have that experience.

01:14:56.395 --> 01:15:02.225
A lot of people, white people are raised in poverty and have much closer are in poverty than white people for sure.

01:15:02.725 --> 01:15:05.324
So yes, there are many poor white people.

01:15:06.324 --> 01:15:15.385
And I think what would be helpful is if we could all take a little bit of time to just understand the history that got us to this point a little bit more than we understand it.

01:15:15.784 --> 01:15:21.279
I mean, Florida is trying to not teach the history, you know, they're, they're trying to like, Hide it, it feels like.

01:15:21.390 --> 01:15:26.590
Let's not teach, you know, what happened during the civil rights and why.

01:15:27.119 --> 01:15:30.489
Um, that probably is, in my view, not the right approach.

01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:32.489
We should seek first to understand.

01:15:32.500 --> 01:15:34.773
Let's understand where the person is coming from.

01:15:34.773 --> 01:15:35.810
Yeah, what's the current circumstance here?

01:15:35.810 --> 01:15:48.020
Yeah, um, and then I think if we understand our own privilege, I had a debate with some white homeowner in my neighborhood about the land use code two years ago, and as soon as I called him out for, you know, For showing his privilege.

01:15:48.060 --> 01:15:54.399
He was so highly offended and it wasn't until I said no, I'm also privileged I we both have privilege.

01:15:54.430 --> 01:15:59.869
Yeah, and you're just not recognizing yours You're like you think you were born on third base, right?

01:15:59.869 --> 01:16:05.960
But but you know, you hit a triple and you had to like, yeah, yeah get there You thought you had a triple but you're born on space.

01:16:06.270 --> 01:16:06.640
Thank you.

01:16:06.689 --> 01:16:27.170
Yes and I just I think that has a lot to do with if we if we Seek first to understand and recognize the other person has A lot of the same values, we wouldn't be so quick to say, Oh, you know, people of color are asking, you know, for, for too much when they're just really asking for the same opportunity that they've been watching white people get for a long time.

01:16:27.220 --> 01:16:27.960
I think that's fair.

01:16:28.109 --> 01:16:31.260
Um, my, uh, how do I say that right?

01:16:31.779 --> 01:16:38.500
My fear is that it, it becomes counterproductive kind of in that same way that, that we talked.

01:16:38.500 --> 01:16:41.939
And so, like, could we cultivate an environment?

01:16:41.949 --> 01:16:49.744
Like, would it be good for America if every, Employer, like, well, I'll just talk to Alma because she's his brown skin person, right?

01:16:49.744 --> 01:16:50.704
Hispanic background.

01:16:51.585 --> 01:17:00.765
If I, if I had two candidates, her and an equally, um, qualified one, I would probably choose her because I would want to give that opportunity.

01:17:01.454 --> 01:17:12.595
And if there was like rules that said I had to as a very small employer, even as a medium size employer, I would probably be more reluctant to in that circumstance.

01:17:12.595 --> 01:17:14.175
And that's what I feel like sometimes those.

01:17:14.590 --> 01:17:25.800
Well intended programs actually work against like the, the meritocracy at Harvard, for example, like black kids are failing out of Harvard left and right, because they're actually not.

01:17:26.489 --> 01:17:27.380
Actually ready.

01:17:27.409 --> 01:17:36.739
Meanwhile, thousands of Asian kids that are like off the charts are not being allowed in because they don't want to have the whole place be full of Asians, right?

01:17:37.100 --> 01:17:38.220
So it's a very complicated.

01:17:38.220 --> 01:17:41.170
I'm not saying I have easy solutions, but It's a great question.

01:17:41.170 --> 01:17:42.869
It's a great example.

01:17:42.949 --> 01:17:46.369
I, I personally don't believe in, in over regulating.

01:17:46.585 --> 01:17:46.604
Yeah.

01:17:46.604 --> 01:17:51.091
Things to the point that people then, you just have to then have compliance around it.

01:17:51.091 --> 01:17:52.360
You've got to file a report about this.

01:17:52.360 --> 01:17:55.755
But there are a lot of steps between where we are today and that.

01:17:55.784 --> 01:17:56.528
Yeah, that's fair.

01:17:56.528 --> 01:18:07.145
And, you know, making sure your materials are translated and making sure you have a way to help someone who speaks Spanish and making sure that you post your job in places where more diverse candidates might see it.

01:18:08.354 --> 01:18:11.965
Maybe not requiring a four year degree for a job that doesn't really need a four year degree.

01:18:11.994 --> 01:18:12.164
Totally.

01:18:12.465 --> 01:18:16.975
You know, so I agree with all those things and I'd like to see the heart change lead the way.

01:18:17.314 --> 01:18:23.204
And I fear that if the heart is whipped with a stick, the hearts will turn the other way.

01:18:23.204 --> 01:18:28.095
And so that's what I, what I fear I see potentially happening in some parts of the economic engine.

01:18:28.274 --> 01:18:28.404
Yep.

01:18:28.635 --> 01:18:29.005
Anyway.

01:18:29.194 --> 01:18:37.664
Now, how then do you rectify the fact that, you know, I don't know, I should know the stat around black home ownership versus white home ownership.

01:18:38.005 --> 01:18:43.114
Should we somehow compensate for the economic losses for generation after generation?

01:18:43.425 --> 01:18:49.055
by not, by being systematically excluded from opportunities to, you know, be economically secure.

01:18:49.404 --> 01:18:49.954
I don't know.

01:18:50.114 --> 01:18:57.604
Yeah, I, I hear that argument, but it's also, like, the government wants to take most of people's, uh, Inheritance is the way anyway.

01:18:57.744 --> 01:19:08.164
So like there isn't that much, um, generational wealth, even in middle America, you know, not enough to change a lot in my impression.

01:19:08.164 --> 01:19:13.015
I'd rather see, um, specific, you know, homeownership programs.

01:19:13.015 --> 01:19:20.104
I'd rather see specific intentional investment with an eye toward, um, unintended consequences into the inner cities.

01:19:20.135 --> 01:19:26.295
Like that's where the opportunity needs to be, or they need to be willing culturally to.

01:19:26.479 --> 01:19:33.189
I'm gonna move to North Dakota and work in the oil field, you know, or all these other kind of opportunities, because there are a lot of still a lot of job opportunities.

01:19:33.840 --> 01:19:40.369
But, you know, a lot of people, and I'm gonna push back on the, it's not really a problem for white people.

01:19:40.760 --> 01:19:51.229
There's a lot of, you know, impoverished white people that are stuck in generational poverty, in their community in South Side Chicago, in West Virginia, you know, and some of these other inner cities.

01:19:51.744 --> 01:19:59.154
And their, their, their lot isn't much better, um, than those that are black skinned and in generational poverty.

01:19:59.154 --> 01:20:01.045
Well, and I didn't mean to say that it isn't there.

01:20:01.185 --> 01:20:01.385
Yeah.

01:20:01.385 --> 01:20:01.704
It is.

01:20:02.064 --> 01:20:02.395
That's fair.

01:20:02.425 --> 01:20:02.824
It is.

01:20:03.234 --> 01:20:03.614
Um.

01:20:03.625 --> 01:20:07.215
It's more of a state of mind, I guess, of what I would argue is poverty tends to be than it is.

01:20:07.265 --> 01:20:08.204
I don't, I disagree with that.

01:20:08.944 --> 01:20:09.225
So.

01:20:09.805 --> 01:20:10.175
Fair enough.

01:20:10.175 --> 01:20:10.454
Yeah.

01:20:10.694 --> 01:20:12.595
Um, the Loco experience?

01:20:13.465 --> 01:20:16.073
Uh, I'm supposed to tell you just a wild experience of my life?

01:20:16.073 --> 01:20:20.614
The craziest, the craziest story of your lifetime that you're willing to share with our listeners?

01:20:23.164 --> 01:20:23.875
Um.

01:20:23.875 --> 01:20:23.949
Yeah.

01:20:23.949 --> 01:20:25.880
I had my identity stolen once.

01:20:26.029 --> 01:20:26.510
Oh, really?

01:20:28.039 --> 01:20:28.909
Was it crazy?

01:20:28.970 --> 01:20:33.029
Or just, you had to like, suffer through some credit reporting updating things and stuff?

01:20:33.029 --> 01:20:39.189
It was, uh, babies being sold on the black market and my identity as an adoption worker was stolen.

01:20:39.289 --> 01:20:39.890
Oh.

01:20:40.119 --> 01:20:40.699
Interesting.

01:20:41.279 --> 01:20:42.760
But I already talked about adoption work.

01:20:42.869 --> 01:20:47.319
Yeah, and it's, you know, you got a crazier story than that.

01:20:48.484 --> 01:20:51.805
Remember that time you took too many acids and then you went to the Grateful Dead show?

01:20:51.805 --> 01:20:55.994
No, my brother would be really good at answering this question and I should have, like, phoned him.

01:20:55.994 --> 01:20:57.545
Can I phone a friend?

01:20:57.545 --> 01:21:00.074
You can tell one of his stories if you want to.

01:21:01.975 --> 01:21:04.444
Um, I'm failing.

01:21:04.515 --> 01:21:05.555
Nothing silly like that.

01:21:05.555 --> 01:21:08.064
No near death experiences.

01:21:08.784 --> 01:21:10.505
Jumped out of an airplane.

01:21:11.694 --> 01:21:15.164
My life is nice and peaceful and boring.

01:21:15.555 --> 01:21:24.069
Um, You know what, have you got into a fight with Travis at a concert or anything like that?

01:21:24.079 --> 01:21:32.810
No! Um Well, you're definitely not going to make the, uh, top ten craziest experiences of 2024.

01:21:32.890 --> 01:21:34.390
Most boring life.

01:21:34.800 --> 01:21:36.229
Well, I don't think that's true.

01:21:36.250 --> 01:21:37.100
That is not true.

01:21:37.140 --> 01:21:40.869
Uh, you just need to know how to keep your nose clean, uh, stay out of too much trouble.

01:21:41.600 --> 01:21:57.630
No motorcycle crashes, bicycles, no automobile incidences, uh, uh, let's see, car wrecks, interactions with, uh, with, uh, homeless people that tried to kidnap you.

01:21:58.414 --> 01:22:05.305
Oh, well I, I did a immersion homelessness trip in DC when I was in college.

01:22:05.354 --> 01:22:06.654
Like where you lived as a homeless person?

01:22:06.664 --> 01:22:07.904
Yeah, it was not safe.

01:22:07.994 --> 01:22:08.335
Yeah.

01:22:08.395 --> 01:22:09.694
I would not do that again.

01:22:10.125 --> 01:22:11.314
Was this through a program?

01:22:11.324 --> 01:22:11.345
Yeah.

01:22:11.345 --> 01:22:18.984
Yeah, I was, I, my spring breaks, I chose to do alternative spring break and you go and you do a week of service somewhere.

01:22:18.984 --> 01:22:21.164
I got to go to Tijuana one year.

01:22:21.784 --> 01:22:22.845
And I got to go to D.

01:22:22.845 --> 01:22:23.255
C.

01:22:23.385 --> 01:22:24.324
Um, inner city D.

01:22:24.324 --> 01:22:24.545
C.

01:22:24.545 --> 01:22:29.475
where they kicked us out of a van and then we kind of circled back to two nights later, two days later.

01:22:29.475 --> 01:22:31.494
We stayed on the street for two nights.

01:22:32.234 --> 01:22:32.395
Damn.

01:22:32.465 --> 01:22:33.234
It was not safe.

01:22:33.234 --> 01:22:34.984
That sounds terribly irresponsible.

01:22:34.994 --> 01:22:38.484
My husband, my, I was engaged at that point and Travis was unhappy.

01:22:39.034 --> 01:22:39.064
Right.

01:22:40.524 --> 01:22:42.854
Did you have like pepper spray at least or something?

01:22:43.255 --> 01:22:43.975
I don't think so.

01:22:43.984 --> 01:22:45.864
Me and another sorority girl.

01:22:46.444 --> 01:23:01.984
Like, wore our, like, dirtiest clothes, and, like, walked around, we ate at a sushi joint, and now I, I feel, I feel like we gained insight, which was the purpose of that trip when I was, you know, what, 20 years old?

01:23:02.920 --> 01:23:10.640
But it wasn't respectful of people's experience, it wasn't safe, because homelessness for women is terribly unsafe.

01:23:10.710 --> 01:23:12.050
I'm sure, yeah.

01:23:12.079 --> 01:23:14.479
So, that is an experience I would not repeat.

01:23:14.869 --> 01:23:15.289
Fair.

01:23:16.829 --> 01:23:18.420
Yeah, sounds intense for me.

01:23:18.810 --> 01:23:27.880
You know, I think about that once in a while, like, um, I met a young lady, actually, I think I'm gonna hire her to, uh, a new job, and she's got a pair of Malamutes.

01:23:27.880 --> 01:23:33.685
Sounds Um, and, but, and she talked about, like, liking to hike, and, you know, this and that.

01:23:34.125 --> 01:23:38.185
And, we've got, Jill and I have, like, a little 25 pound Schnauzer dog.

01:23:38.244 --> 01:23:38.354
Nice.

01:23:38.845 --> 01:24:05.244
Right, and I was just, I had a quick just flash to myself of, you know, if you're a pretty single gal, And you want to be out by yourself, hiking in the woods and stuff like that, or even just running the trails around Fort Collins or something like, having a pair of Malamutes is probably one of the safest things that you can do, and it's sad that we live in a, even in our super safe community of Fort Collins, that, that's just, it is, right?

01:24:05.244 --> 01:24:12.479
And that it'll probably be that way forever, you know, as, as long as boys are boys and men are men and women are women.

01:24:13.310 --> 01:24:14.289
You know, vulnerable.

01:24:14.789 --> 01:24:17.060
Uh, ooh, we didn't get into the trans boxing thing.

01:24:17.060 --> 01:24:18.060
Do you want to talk about that?

01:24:18.220 --> 01:24:18.520
We can.

01:24:18.520 --> 01:24:20.032
We can talk about anything.

01:24:20.032 --> 01:24:20.939
I, you know.

01:24:20.939 --> 01:24:23.170
Oh, actually, yeah, I didn't really follow that.

01:24:23.170 --> 01:24:23.699
That was fresh.

01:24:23.699 --> 01:24:24.957
I know I don't really think it's clear yet.

01:24:24.957 --> 01:24:26.609
And there's so many different messages about, about that, too.

01:24:26.609 --> 01:24:27.090
Totally.

01:24:27.210 --> 01:24:28.779
Isn't that a weird thing about the world today?

01:24:28.779 --> 01:24:30.979
The, like, the propaganda one way or the other.

01:24:30.979 --> 01:24:33.640
And you can read all this and Yeah.

01:24:34.119 --> 01:24:43.090
I mean, so do you think, uh, That if Donald Trump is elected, that that's the end of democracy or you just think he's kind of an asshat, but I'm worried about it.

01:24:43.170 --> 01:24:49.090
I'm worried because I think, I think he's a puppet to Putin and potentially North Korea.

01:24:49.109 --> 01:24:58.270
I just think he's not smart enough and he's got people behind the scenes helping to guide us toward, I think really dangerous waters.

01:24:58.840 --> 01:25:05.579
See I would, I, I, I try to maintain a bit of a distance from it because I'm really not a Trump fan either.

01:25:05.579 --> 01:25:07.619
I'm I think that's propaganda.

01:25:07.630 --> 01:25:11.409
I think you've been, yeah, he's definitely not a puppet to Putin.

01:25:11.449 --> 01:25:18.159
I don't think there's any, you know, otherwise that big investigation that Hillary whacked open on Trump years ago would have found something.

01:25:18.170 --> 01:25:20.529
There really wasn't anything in the Mueller investigation.

01:25:20.529 --> 01:25:23.310
So, well, they did find that Russians helped get him elected.

01:25:23.699 --> 01:25:24.659
At least I've read that.

01:25:24.840 --> 01:25:29.750
Well, I mean, they, but not with his communication, like they just thought he would be better.

01:25:29.970 --> 01:25:38.725
Like, and so, like, I mean, uh, Mark Zuckerberg spent 400 million trying to make sure Biden got elected, you know?

01:25:38.725 --> 01:25:47.944
And so that, you know, so 10 bot farms in Russia trying to get Trump elected is not any more election interference, I think, than, than that.

01:25:47.944 --> 01:25:57.130
So, but anyway, from my perspective, um, He's too much of an egoist to be kind of influenced in that way.

01:25:57.279 --> 01:26:06.500
Well, maybe to put the country first, but also to, to defer to be a puppet for Putin or a puppet for like, he was mocking Kim Jong un from North Korea.

01:26:06.500 --> 01:26:08.659
So I think the evidence against that being real.

01:26:09.000 --> 01:26:12.859
So just fear not like we're not going to die or become.

01:26:13.739 --> 01:26:18.640
Either Nazi Germany or communist China if either Kamala or Trump gets elected.

01:26:18.640 --> 01:26:19.689
It's too big of a machine.

01:26:19.699 --> 01:26:21.140
Yeah for that for that.

01:26:21.140 --> 01:26:32.585
I think I worry about the world Maybe even 20 years from now, because I just think there, there are extreme views on display now that, that we didn't see 10 years ago.

01:26:33.045 --> 01:26:43.704
Um, a coworker just showed me, she went back home to visit her family and, um, she was surprised by kind of how their children are being indoctrinated.

01:26:43.845 --> 01:27:05.055
And this 10 year old, you know, has this poster on the wall that has, um, There's Trump and the rifle and the tank and the fireworks and the whole thing is make America great again And it's like who he's 10, you know, like I think that just kind of like extreme Kind of nationalism thing white nationalism makes well not white nationalism.

01:27:05.234 --> 01:27:10.295
I don't think Well, that isn't necessarily, but then that also is, like, feels like it's rising.

01:27:10.664 --> 01:27:17.364
I mean, how do you explain the, uh, increase of support by Hispanics and Blacks for Trump in the last, just propaganda?

01:27:17.364 --> 01:27:17.755
I can't.

01:27:18.265 --> 01:27:18.545
Yeah.

01:27:18.555 --> 01:27:19.864
I cannot explain that.

01:27:20.375 --> 01:27:20.854
I don't know.

01:27:21.005 --> 01:27:21.284
Yeah.

01:27:21.564 --> 01:27:26.074
The Catholic Church, I mean, like, there's a lot of support around Trump that I can't explain.

01:27:26.295 --> 01:27:26.375
Yeah.

01:27:28.119 --> 01:27:28.600
I get it.

01:27:29.420 --> 01:27:30.750
I don't understand this shit either.

01:27:32.739 --> 01:27:34.590
But thank you for the encouragement that it's going to be okay.

01:27:34.600 --> 01:27:35.470
It'll be fine.

01:27:35.489 --> 01:27:36.100
It'll be fine.

01:27:36.449 --> 01:27:37.319
Unless Kamala wins.

01:27:37.319 --> 01:27:37.909
Then we're fucked.

01:27:37.909 --> 01:27:39.050
Just kidding.

01:27:41.510 --> 01:27:42.539
I love you Kelly Evans.

01:27:42.689 --> 01:27:43.289
I really do.

01:27:43.289 --> 01:27:43.789
for having me.

01:27:43.789 --> 01:27:44.779
I appreciate you being here.

01:27:44.829 --> 01:27:45.310
So fun.

01:27:45.420 --> 01:27:45.710
Alright.

01:27:45.710 --> 01:27:45.720
Godspeed.