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May 13, 2024

EXPERIENCE 167 | The Ins and Outs and Valuations of the Oil and Natural Gas Industry with Todd Brooker, President of Cawley, Gillespie & Associates, Inc. in Austin, Texas

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I got acquainted with Todd Brooker through LinkedIn, where we follow some of the same voices, and learned last fall that he spends a lot of time in Fort Collins - where his daughter Libby Brooker is a goalie on the CSU soccer team!  It took us a minute, but this spring we finally got properly acquainted over lunch, followed by a long-form conversation in The LoCo Experience studios.  Todd is the second Texan I’ve had on the podcast, and the second from Austin - apparently the Fort Collins of that state. I’m hoping for Joe Rogan or Lex Fridman as my third such citizen - intros welcome!  

Cawley, Gillespie & Associates (CGA) is a 60+ year petroleum engineering, geology, and valuation firm that Todd has worked at for 32 years, and been President of for more than 10 years.  The firm has ~35 employees in two offices, and is something of a boutique firm in the industry.  Owners of oil wells all over the nation - and beyond - hire CGA to evaluate potential acquisitions or support creation of audited financial statements to comply with Sarbanes Oxley.  I wanted to bring Todd onto the show because he knows a lot of things about a lot of things, especially as it pertains to the oil and gas industry in our nation.  

Todd is a proud dad, loving husband, and VP and Board Member of the Town & Country Optimists Club in Austin.  He’s a part-time Fort Collinsian now, and fits right in - and when he moves here full-time in the future I’ll try to snag him for the Breakfast Rotary Club and maybe as a LoCo Facilitator - he’d be great.  So please join me in enjoying my conversation with oil industry expert and my new friend, Todd Brooker.  

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Music By: A Brother's Fountain

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:41.923 --> 00:00:43.872
I got acquainted with Todd Brooker through LinkedIn.

00:00:44.262 --> 00:00:48.692
Where we follow some of the same voices and learn last fall that he spends a lot of time in Fort Collins.

00:00:48.923 --> 00:00:51.762
Where his daughter Libby Brecker is a goalie on the CSU soccer team.

00:00:52.743 --> 00:00:59.883
It took us a minute but this spring we finally got properly acquainted over lunch and followed that with a long form conversation in the loco experience studios.

00:01:00.017 --> 00:01:03.296
Todd is the second Texan I've had on the podcast and the second from Austin.

00:01:03.701 --> 00:01:05.542
Apparently the Fort Collins of that state.

00:01:06.402 --> 00:01:09.792
I'm hoping for Joel Rogan or Lex Friedman as my third such citizen.

00:01:10.052 --> 00:01:11.081
Introductions welcome.

00:01:11.674 --> 00:01:20.545
Colleague Lesbian Associates is a 60 plus year petroleum engineering, geology, and valuation firm that Todd has worked at for 32 years and been president of for more than 10.

00:01:21.829 --> 00:01:27.099
The firm has around 35 employees in two offices and is something of a boutique firm in the industry.

00:01:27.632 --> 00:01:36.543
Owners of oil wells all over the nation and beyond hire CGA to evaluate potential acquisitions or support creation of financial statements to comply with Sarbanes Oxley.

00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:44.379
I wanted to bring Todd onto the show because he knows a lot of things about a lot of things, especially as it pertains to the oil and gas industry across our nation.

00:01:45.810 --> 00:01:51.790
Todd is a proud dad, loving husband, and the VP and board member of the Town and Country Optimist Club in Austin.

00:01:52.765 --> 00:02:02.355
He's a part time Fort Collinsian now and fits right in, and when he moves up here full time in the future, I'll try to snag him for the Breakfast Rotary Club and maybe as a local facilitator.

00:02:02.584 --> 00:02:03.194
He'd be great.

00:02:03.974 --> 00:02:09.384
So please join me in enjoying my conversation with oil industry expert and my newest friend, Todd Brooker.

00:02:10.314 --> 00:02:10.805
Let's have some fun.

00:02:18.724 --> 00:02:20.854
Welcome to the Low Cove Experience podcast.

00:02:20.974 --> 00:02:25.735
On this show, you'll get to know business and community leaders from all around Northern Colorado and beyond.

00:02:26.384 --> 00:02:33.805
Our guests share their stories, business stories, life stories, stories of triumph and of tragedy, and through it all, you'll be inspired and entertained.

00:02:34.735 --> 00:02:38.055
These conversations are real and raw and no topics are off limits.

00:02:38.705 --> 00:02:41.185
So pop in a breath mint and get ready to meet our latest guest.

00:02:46.373 --> 00:02:47.883
Welcome back to the Loco Experience.

00:02:47.933 --> 00:02:56.954
I'm here today with Todd Brooker, and Todd is the president of Collie Gillespie and Associates, Associates, also known as CGA.

00:02:57.593 --> 00:02:59.383
Uh, what's CGA up to, Todd?

00:03:00.063 --> 00:03:01.054
Thanks for having me, Kurt.

00:03:01.084 --> 00:03:05.493
Um, well, CGA, we're doing the same thing we've been doing for 60 years.

00:03:06.133 --> 00:03:12.734
Uh, believe it or not, our business has been around almost 63 years coming up and I've been there for half of it, 32 years.

00:03:12.774 --> 00:03:13.033
Wow.

00:03:13.383 --> 00:03:19.443
Coming up on 32 and um, we're a bunch of petroleum engineers and geologists that value oil and gas properties.

00:03:19.924 --> 00:03:20.084
Yeah.

00:03:20.084 --> 00:03:20.933
It's pretty much what we do.

00:03:20.963 --> 00:03:23.454
You were saying kind of almost like an appraiser for oil wells.

00:03:23.463 --> 00:03:23.473
A

00:03:23.954 --> 00:03:33.834
lot of appraising, a lot of oil wells, um, a lot of looking at a lot of deals, you know, oil and gas transaction, whether it's divestiture or an acquisition, financing, things like that.

00:03:33.843 --> 00:03:33.864
Um,

00:03:34.424 --> 00:03:36.193
so if the.

00:03:36.788 --> 00:03:38.729
Value is so easily known.

00:03:38.739 --> 00:03:41.128
How, how do people buy and sell and trade these wells?

00:03:41.128 --> 00:03:42.278
It happens a lot, right?

00:03:42.368 --> 00:03:45.889
Or maybe that's why you get paid the big bucks is to try to figure out what it's actually worth.

00:03:47.118 --> 00:03:53.188
Yeah, we do have fairly high billing rates and that people do pay as well, but we do a lot of detailed work because it's not easy.

00:03:53.778 --> 00:03:55.299
Uh, you need to know what you're doing.

00:03:55.299 --> 00:03:56.838
You need to know the basin you're in.

00:03:56.848 --> 00:04:03.829
You need to understand oil and gas principles, um, hydrology and geology, you know, producing mechanisms.

00:04:03.838 --> 00:04:04.209
Right.

00:04:04.269 --> 00:04:04.908
So it's not really

00:04:04.908 --> 00:04:06.139
just a numbers game.

00:04:06.139 --> 00:04:06.899
It's also.

00:04:08.068 --> 00:04:08.959
All the extra stuff.

00:04:09.008 --> 00:04:09.758
Transport.

00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:11.188
There's a, there's a lot that goes into it.

00:04:11.218 --> 00:04:13.639
And, um, you got to know where to get the data.

00:04:13.649 --> 00:04:15.008
You got to know how to clean the data.

00:04:15.008 --> 00:04:17.019
You know, you got to see what it's telling you.

00:04:17.038 --> 00:04:21.788
You got to make sense of it and project out a forecast on, on every well that we look at.

00:04:22.459 --> 00:04:27.918
And, and then on the other side of producing and making revenues, you have expenses.

00:04:27.999 --> 00:04:32.238
All kinds of expenses goes into drilling a well or, producing a well.

00:04:32.928 --> 00:04:45.048
And knowing that or knowing rules of thumbs to apply to get that value right so that you're not overbidding, uh, or you want, you know, you want to be, you know, when you're the winning bidder, the problem is you pay, you're paying the highest price, right?

00:04:45.129 --> 00:04:45.418
Right.

00:04:45.418 --> 00:04:45.769
Right.

00:04:45.838 --> 00:04:46.288
Which

00:04:46.689 --> 00:04:49.399
you can always buy it if you want it, but it might not make any sense.

00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:50.298
Yeah, exactly.

00:04:50.738 --> 00:04:53.019
And we try to keep our clients out of trouble.

00:04:53.019 --> 00:04:55.468
We try to make, make sense of what they're going after.

00:04:55.468 --> 00:04:57.298
If they're trying to acquire some properties.

00:04:57.903 --> 00:05:08.314
And a lot of what we do is bring some sensibility to their thoughts, because sometimes they can get a little irrational or exuberant and want to buy these properties at all costs.

00:05:08.314 --> 00:05:13.053
But maybe they're looking at it, you know, through rose colored glasses and we know something they don't.

00:05:14.084 --> 00:05:16.928
And is it, uh, Already producing wells.

00:05:16.928 --> 00:05:17.658
That's your focus.

00:05:17.658 --> 00:05:21.269
Do you look at just like land that could have some wells on it and stuff to

00:05:22.019 --> 00:05:22.759
that's a good question.

00:05:23.629 --> 00:05:25.069
A lot of it is producing wells.

00:05:25.098 --> 00:05:29.488
There's hundreds of thousands in the United States and those are transacting all the time.

00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:32.369
But as you know, they're drilling all the time.

00:05:32.369 --> 00:05:43.119
New wells are coming into the picture and, uh, companies are out there exploring for oil and gas, developing new acreage that may not have production every day of the week.

00:05:43.158 --> 00:06:01.394
And so that's where that's where the It's easy to forecast something when you have a lot of data points, when you know, okay, this well has been producing for the last 20 years and here's the numbers and anybody, a child could draw a forecast through some of these wells because they're so consistent.

00:06:02.204 --> 00:06:04.483
But when you don't have production data, what do you do?

00:06:04.994 --> 00:06:09.504
And that's the, the science that comes into a lot of what we do and understanding.

00:06:09.514 --> 00:06:09.574
That's

00:06:09.574 --> 00:06:10.694
why you need the geologists

00:06:10.694 --> 00:06:12.814
and the different kinds of engineers and

00:06:12.814 --> 00:06:13.113
stuff.

00:06:13.194 --> 00:06:13.803
Exactly.

00:06:13.803 --> 00:06:16.134
It may require geology, uh, work.

00:06:16.153 --> 00:06:23.124
Uh, you may need to determine how big is that tank, how much oil is in that tank and water and gas, and what's it going to look like when you produce it?

00:06:23.163 --> 00:06:23.663
Right.

00:06:23.783 --> 00:06:25.704
What portion can I get out of the ground?

00:06:25.764 --> 00:06:31.843
Well, and with fracking, I imagine how much fracking intention is going to be needed to shake it loose.

00:06:32.254 --> 00:06:32.603
Yes.

00:06:32.605 --> 00:06:34.423
Fracking

00:06:34.903 --> 00:06:37.303
is remarkable for several reasons.

00:06:37.533 --> 00:06:40.894
I know it's, it's, it's got a little bit of a, uh, taint.

00:06:40.903 --> 00:06:41.764
Oh, I think it's amazing.

00:06:41.774 --> 00:06:49.314
Yeah, it's amazing, but, you know, unfortunately the media has a little tainted, but the reality is that fracking has, has, uh, done miraculous things for the U.

00:06:49.314 --> 00:06:49.353
S.

00:06:49.684 --> 00:06:49.694
A.

00:06:49.694 --> 00:06:49.783
to be

00:06:49.954 --> 00:06:50.793
energy independent.

00:06:52.348 --> 00:07:00.928
But the reason fracking was invented was mainly to unlock this rock, this shell rock that it's, it's just concrete.

00:07:00.928 --> 00:07:08.988
It's like super, super hard, super, uh, not, not permeable at all, not porous at all, but it contains a lot of hydrocarbons.

00:07:09.009 --> 00:07:16.428
And for the first half of the oil and gas business decade, for the first 50, 60 years, we ignored those zones.

00:07:16.528 --> 00:07:16.928
Right.

00:07:17.168 --> 00:07:19.379
Never drilled, never produced them.

00:07:20.028 --> 00:07:20.908
Uh, but.

00:07:21.384 --> 00:07:23.954
Uh, they, that's, that's where the oil and gas comes from.

00:07:23.954 --> 00:07:25.913
It might leak out of that shell zone.

00:07:25.913 --> 00:07:26.303
Oh, is that right?

00:07:26.343 --> 00:07:26.783
Usually it's there.

00:07:26.814 --> 00:07:28.173
It, it's, it's the kitchen.

00:07:28.194 --> 00:07:32.144
It, it, it produces the hydrocarbons and that leaks off into those other zones.

00:07:33.569 --> 00:07:33.879
So like

00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:42.019
even in Texas where it's been comparably easy because it's, you don't have, you could drill a lot before the fracking technology was developed.

00:07:42.468 --> 00:07:46.569
There's still basins of this rock that is leaching into and out of these sandier zones.

00:07:47.358 --> 00:07:52.619
Leaching from the shell into sandier zones and those sandier zones is where they trapped the oil previously.

00:07:52.629 --> 00:07:53.028
And we got them.

00:07:53.038 --> 00:07:53.738
It was so easy.

00:07:53.738 --> 00:07:54.598
We drilled right into them.

00:07:54.598 --> 00:07:57.788
They were somewhat porous, somewhat productive right out of the gates.

00:07:58.338 --> 00:08:01.009
And uh, but the shell zones were not like that.

00:08:01.069 --> 00:08:03.059
And so the fracking enabled.

00:08:03.603 --> 00:08:05.163
To blast that rock, apart.

00:08:05.194 --> 00:08:08.483
They basically pulverize it to allow hydrocarbon to flow.

00:08:09.394 --> 00:08:18.124
On top of that, when you layer in horizontal drilling where you can drill a mile or two miles, or even three miles, Is what a lot of basins are going to now where they can.

00:08:18.793 --> 00:08:20.223
Um, it just is a.

00:08:20.423 --> 00:08:24.223
unlocks an incredible amount of hydrocarbons to come from one well bore.

00:08:24.613 --> 00:08:24.934
Yeah.

00:08:25.134 --> 00:08:25.553
Whereas

00:08:25.564 --> 00:08:29.584
that could have been 10 to 15 well bores in the old

00:08:29.584 --> 00:08:29.824
days.

00:08:29.834 --> 00:08:30.244
Wow.

00:08:30.274 --> 00:08:30.733
Interesting.

00:08:30.733 --> 00:08:32.724
That's so much more efficiency unlocked by that.

00:08:33.043 --> 00:08:33.163
Yeah.

00:08:33.264 --> 00:08:35.653
And it's just a long pipe, right?

00:08:35.653 --> 00:08:36.864
That's most of the infrastructure.

00:08:36.903 --> 00:08:40.433
That's typically one to two miles underground and makes the turn.

00:08:40.484 --> 00:08:48.364
And, uh, and you can imagine if that replaces 10 wells, Think about the surface, how, how much, you know, smaller.

00:08:48.364 --> 00:08:49.933
So that's, you've heard about pad drilling.

00:08:49.933 --> 00:08:51.104
Well, that, that's why they have pads.

00:08:51.104 --> 00:08:53.884
They, they drill multiple wells from a pad that goes in all directions.

00:08:53.923 --> 00:08:54.203
Oh,

00:08:54.203 --> 00:08:54.594
I see.

00:08:54.813 --> 00:08:59.384
And it's just a very efficient spot to produce all the oil to one location with all the tanks.

00:08:59.394 --> 00:08:59.703
Right.

00:08:59.903 --> 00:09:03.163
And the trucks can come in and haul it away or the pipe, pipe can take it away.

00:09:03.583 --> 00:09:03.854
So.

00:09:03.855 --> 00:09:05.744
Let's talk about, um, your firm.

00:09:05.813 --> 00:09:09.333
Like how many, is it, it's, there's partners with you?

00:09:09.384 --> 00:09:10.774
How many employees overall?

00:09:10.774 --> 00:09:13.943
It's a, kind of a boutique y thing for what you do, I suppose.

00:09:14.594 --> 00:09:16.504
Or is there a big firms in your industry too?

00:09:16.563 --> 00:09:17.653
That's a good way to describe it.

00:09:17.663 --> 00:09:20.374
We are a boutique firm, uh, about 35 employees.

00:09:20.769 --> 00:09:22.369
Uh, so we're sizable.

00:09:22.369 --> 00:09:34.339
We can, we can take on any kind of projects and we do, uh, but, you know, some of our larger competitors, there's, there's three or four of them that are, that maybe have around a hundred employees, you know, engineers, geologists, geophysicists, just like us.

00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:34.609
Yeah.

00:09:35.219 --> 00:09:37.058
Um, we're not trying to be them.

00:09:37.293 --> 00:09:39.533
Uh, we, we, uh, we like where we're at.

00:09:39.653 --> 00:09:46.254
Uh, yeah, we could add some or take some away, but I love that size because it allows us to be responsive.

00:09:46.754 --> 00:09:51.663
You know, it doesn't matter to us if you're a small client or a large client, we, we pick up the phone.

00:09:52.083 --> 00:09:53.234
We will talk to you.

00:09:53.234 --> 00:09:54.484
We will work with you.

00:09:54.953 --> 00:10:03.208
Uh, we understand that, that our business and the way we appraise Wells, uh, there, there are some guesstimates you have to make.

00:10:03.208 --> 00:10:11.068
You have to make a lot of assumptions when you don't, when you don't have a camera down hole or you don't have, you're not two miles down in the earth and you can see what's going on.

00:10:11.448 --> 00:10:24.114
You have to infer a lot, but we understand that, that And so we work with our clients and listen to what they have to say, take in their data, and, and then we have to make that into our own.

00:10:24.594 --> 00:10:33.234
And in the end, we end up with a valuation that is called a Gillespie's valuation of some assets, but it might involve a lot of client input.

00:10:33.599 --> 00:10:37.979
And in some cases, our clients don't have any technical staff and they're just like, please help us.

00:10:38.349 --> 00:10:39.958
And we do most of the heavy lifting.

00:10:40.369 --> 00:10:44.948
There's, there's others that hand off a nice little package and say, look, we've done a lot of work here.

00:10:44.958 --> 00:10:46.219
I've been working on it for three months.

00:10:46.239 --> 00:10:47.139
You've got a week.

00:10:47.379 --> 00:10:47.928
Tell us what you

00:10:48.298 --> 00:10:48.339
think.

00:10:48.339 --> 00:10:48.528
Yeah.

00:10:48.528 --> 00:10:49.599
We, we need your.

00:10:49.698 --> 00:10:52.168
stamp of validation, ultimately kinda.

00:10:52.729 --> 00:10:57.698
And is this uh, do you face a lot of liability risk for saying this is the value?

00:10:57.828 --> 00:11:04.399
I mean, appraisers in real estate kind of have at least some liability risk if things go south or whatever.

00:11:05.739 --> 00:11:05.879
How's that?

00:11:06.339 --> 00:11:06.948
Well, yeah.

00:11:06.948 --> 00:11:09.048
I mean, you, you can face some liability risk.

00:11:09.048 --> 00:11:16.649
Uh, we, we don't typically face, uh, in my time, I haven't seen any, uh, private transaction and, and, and the reason is, and you do good

00:11:16.649 --> 00:11:17.759
work, hopefully, right?

00:11:17.958 --> 00:11:18.448
Well, we try

00:11:18.448 --> 00:11:34.958
to, and we, but we try to, we have guidelines we have to follow, either whether it's federal guidelines through the SEC, uh, or through, uh, the Society of Petroleum Engineers, uh, they also have some guidelines we follow and, and other, depending on what country you're working in, they have guidelines and we stick to that.

00:11:35.688 --> 00:11:39.759
And, um, and so, on top of that, we, you know, we, we So it's not

00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:40.239
much art.

00:11:40.249 --> 00:11:42.578
There's a lot more science to it than art in some ways.

00:11:42.658 --> 00:11:43.129
Yes.

00:11:43.158 --> 00:11:43.548
Yes.

00:11:43.578 --> 00:11:46.229
And, you know, we try to put away our biases.

00:11:46.509 --> 00:11:50.479
We're a third party, independent petroleum consulting firm.

00:11:50.489 --> 00:11:54.948
And people come to us hoping for an unbiased opinion on a value.

00:11:55.068 --> 00:11:57.948
And so, we try our best to hone in on that value.

00:11:58.479 --> 00:12:00.908
Uh, there is, there are error bars in what we do.

00:12:00.969 --> 00:12:03.489
Um, and, you know, you mentioned, well, liability.

00:12:04.543 --> 00:12:10.173
The day we go live with a new report, a valuation of a bunch of wells, it's probably wrong.

00:12:10.573 --> 00:12:13.484
And the reason is because we had to, we had to pick an effective date.

00:12:13.543 --> 00:12:21.504
Let's just say February one, we had to pick a price deck to run with for the next 50 years, which is a little ludicrous.

00:12:21.823 --> 00:12:23.553
If you've ever, you know, what were you doing when

00:12:23.553 --> 00:12:28.264
prices went from 60 down to negative briefly there during COVID nation?

00:12:28.354 --> 00:12:28.644
Well,

00:12:29.134 --> 00:12:30.693
I'll be honest, I was panicking a little bit.

00:12:30.923 --> 00:12:31.413
I'm sure.

00:12:31.504 --> 00:12:37.394
I'm like, what is going to happen to our firm after being here 60 years and it's going to go down in flames and right under my watch.

00:12:37.984 --> 00:12:45.374
And I'm seeing client after client go bankrupt, client after client gets smash code into a consortium of companies.

00:12:45.384 --> 00:12:48.553
And now we have all the consolidation in the industry.

00:12:48.553 --> 00:12:50.913
So, uh, that part's been troublesome.

00:12:50.913 --> 00:12:50.974
But.

00:12:51.239 --> 00:13:00.999
But back to your liability, don't really see it, uh, uh, see it, uh, as a liability and putting out our valuations because we follow standards and it is what it is.

00:13:00.999 --> 00:13:03.729
I mean, the prices can change tomorrow and you're wrong, right?

00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:04.609
And it's not your fault.

00:13:04.619 --> 00:13:06.548
You don't, I don't control the markets, right?

00:13:06.778 --> 00:13:10.469
I'm just thinking about, I was in banking, of course, uh, as we talked about.

00:13:10.698 --> 00:13:23.979
Talked about at lunch and the, the major banks acting badly was the major cause of the, of the financial crisis in 2008, 2009, with all the derivatives and funny money mortgages and all that.

00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:32.058
And the, the cure for that became regulations so stringent that the small independent banks really couldn't even survive anymore.

00:13:32.178 --> 00:13:38.719
And it's brought about more rapid consolidation into the rules of the, you know, the too big to fail was.

00:13:38.994 --> 00:13:46.759
Too big to exist, and now you guys have had the same kind of consolidation from a Outside kind of government force or the reaction to the pandemic.

00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:47.139
I'm sorry.

00:13:47.869 --> 00:13:48.129
Yeah.

00:13:48.219 --> 00:13:48.448
Yeah.

00:13:48.538 --> 00:13:50.019
The reactions to the pandemic threat.

00:13:50.369 --> 00:13:50.609
Yeah.

00:13:50.678 --> 00:13:50.889
Sorry.

00:13:51.188 --> 00:13:51.509
Yeah.

00:13:51.749 --> 00:13:52.889
Well, there's a lot to unpack.

00:13:52.889 --> 00:13:54.489
They're the industry.

00:13:54.658 --> 00:13:58.198
After Enron, the Enron debacle before you're talking about back in 2001.

00:13:58.698 --> 00:13:58.958
Yeah,

00:13:59.158 --> 00:14:08.359
they enacted the Sarbanes Oxley Act, which created the Much more stringent guidelines on, um, on valuations and, and following standards.

00:14:08.389 --> 00:14:15.729
And so it doubled or tripled the amount of governance or due diligence you have on every transaction on every report.

00:14:16.198 --> 00:14:17.428
And, and we felt a

00:14:17.428 --> 00:14:18.328
big windfall for you.

00:14:18.828 --> 00:14:23.428
firm or did you grow a lot because of that or you intentionally tried to not get too big and gross?

00:14:24.259 --> 00:14:26.788
It wasn't a windfall for us but, but it did help.

00:14:26.798 --> 00:14:35.379
What it was a windfall for is the accounting firms that go through financials and, and, and they, they doubled and tripled their staff.

00:14:35.408 --> 00:14:37.408
They grew and law firms.

00:14:37.798 --> 00:14:38.178
Right.

00:14:38.249 --> 00:14:45.649
I mean the amount of law, law and litigation and things that came out of that, it was just You So law firms got bigger, accounting firms got bigger.

00:14:45.948 --> 00:14:52.899
We may have grown a little bit, but, but we did shrink a little bit through the last four or five years with COVID and, um, so

00:14:52.918 --> 00:14:54.048
industry shakeup kind of thing.

00:14:54.349 --> 00:14:54.489
Yeah.

00:14:54.489 --> 00:14:58.678
That's one thing, you know, not all service organizations are created equal.

00:14:59.313 --> 00:15:13.244
And, you know, while there's definitely some good accounting and law firms out there, they're generally kind of leeches on the system, you know, the companies that manufacture things or pull energy out of the ground and make it available or help companies do that kind of stuff.

00:15:13.244 --> 00:15:20.754
It's a lot less yucky, but the, the law and the accounting and some other things are just kind of a drag.

00:15:21.754 --> 00:15:22.864
that actually is productive.

00:15:24.163 --> 00:15:27.813
Yeah, I'm involved in a lot of transactions that are publicly traded companies.

00:15:27.913 --> 00:15:41.394
And, uh, and so you, you typically on, on those kinds of transactions, you might have five to 10 different banks that are involved and then five different law firms that are involved and five different, uh, uh, financial accounting firms involved and then maybe environmental.

00:15:42.073 --> 00:15:47.923
And some of the calls we get on when you, when you hear everybody hang up, Uh, hundreds sometimes and you just think about the math.

00:15:47.933 --> 00:15:49.624
Everybody on that call is getting paid.

00:15:49.663 --> 00:15:50.864
Yeah, like 200 bucks an hour or more.

00:15:50.913 --> 00:15:51.144
Yeah,

00:15:51.264 --> 00:15:54.203
well some of them, some of them are getting transaction fees that are coming later.

00:15:54.203 --> 00:15:58.163
But yeah, you think about the attorneys or my firm, we're owned by the hour.

00:15:58.803 --> 00:16:01.043
I mean that cash register is But you're right.

00:16:01.053 --> 00:16:03.519
That is a lot of fees that have to get paid, but you know.

00:16:03.739 --> 00:16:18.259
The reason it happens is because the system works and it's very complex because Sarbanes Oxley and all the new laws and now all the new federal regulations we're facing, that requires an incredible amount of due diligence that you didn't have to do before.

00:16:18.259 --> 00:16:20.328
So, you know, I didn't

00:16:20.328 --> 00:16:28.563
really realize the extent to which other industries had a significant rate regulation increase because of that.

00:16:28.964 --> 00:16:29.663
How much so?

00:16:29.764 --> 00:16:30.053
Yeah.

00:16:30.053 --> 00:16:32.764
I mean, you think about a stock is a stock is a stock, right?

00:16:32.764 --> 00:16:39.653
If it's, if it's oil and gas versus automotive versus, yeah, you know, whatever it, you know, it still goes through federal regulations.

00:16:39.653 --> 00:16:39.864
Sure.

00:16:39.864 --> 00:16:44.264
It's still buyer beware ultimately, but, uh, the degree to which is maybe less.

00:16:44.264 --> 00:16:44.553
So,

00:16:45.224 --> 00:16:47.014
but you know, also, uh, if, if.

00:16:47.548 --> 00:17:00.489
I'm not sure how much your listeners know about oil and gas, uh, in general, but it, you know, in a thousand well transaction, it could involve four different States and hundreds and hundreds of oil and gas leases.

00:17:01.149 --> 00:17:06.828
And every one of those leases have to, has to be reviewed and for title and, and ownership.

00:17:07.138 --> 00:17:10.598
And, and then, and then there's also the environmental side of that goes with it.

00:17:10.949 --> 00:17:12.398
Those properties have to be inspected.

00:17:12.398 --> 00:17:22.798
Are, you know, are you buying into a field that has Known problems they didn't tell you about and so if you just think about Hundreds and hundreds of leases involved in a transaction.

00:17:22.798 --> 00:17:24.239
That's just that's just the land.

00:17:24.288 --> 00:17:24.638
Yeah

00:17:25.929 --> 00:17:29.159
It's just it's a very complex thing to get those deals done.

00:17:29.159 --> 00:17:30.638
And that's why it requires a lot of people

00:17:30.689 --> 00:17:37.148
What is a what is the oil well worth like just one on the average kind of all the way across the board?

00:17:37.148 --> 00:17:37.989
What's an oil well worth?

00:17:39.019 --> 00:17:39.749
That's a good question.

00:17:39.788 --> 00:17:44.838
Uh, you know, there's vertical oil wells, uh, which, which was early in my career, that's all there was.

00:17:44.838 --> 00:17:47.568
And now it's mostly what I'm deal I deal with is horizontal wells.

00:17:47.568 --> 00:17:48.358
Sure, that makes sense.

00:17:48.788 --> 00:17:50.229
Um, so what's it worth?

00:17:50.308 --> 00:17:52.598
Um, obviously, it's

00:17:52.598 --> 00:17:53.759
like The present value of the future

00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:53.979
income.

00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:56.808
That's it's almost like, what's that car worth?

00:17:57.398 --> 00:17:58.898
What kind of engines under the hood?

00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:01.689
Is it, is it Fred Flintstone using his feet?

00:18:01.709 --> 00:18:02.509
That's a little cheap.

00:18:02.509 --> 00:18:07.739
Well, or is it have, you know, a big, a thousand horsepower engine and some oil and gas wells are that way.

00:18:07.769 --> 00:18:13.169
I mean, right here in Colorado, not far from us where we're sitting, you know, is the, uh, DJ basin.

00:18:13.499 --> 00:18:27.048
Um, uh, that's one of the largest, uh, natural gas fields in, in the U S but, uh, but has fantastic oil production and some of those horizontal wells that typically costs five to six or 7 million.

00:18:27.318 --> 00:18:27.858
To drill.

00:18:27.919 --> 00:18:28.219
Alright.

00:18:28.608 --> 00:18:32.358
Some less, some more depending on, you know, lateral length and, and frack design.

00:18:32.358 --> 00:18:33.288
Completion design.

00:18:33.989 --> 00:18:42.548
Uh, but they can return, you know, 20, 30, 40,$50 million in revenue over its life, depending on when Did it come online?

00:18:42.548 --> 00:18:44.378
Did it come online during a period of.

00:18:44.909 --> 00:18:46.828
Poor prices or is it good prices?

00:18:46.868 --> 00:18:48.568
Is it a, you know, efficient operator?

00:18:49.328 --> 00:18:53.088
Um, but it really is a huge mixed bag.

00:18:53.088 --> 00:18:53.528
So maybe

00:18:53.528 --> 00:19:01.058
anywhere from a million to 20 million, like a small vertical well might only be a million dollar asset or something.

00:19:01.598 --> 00:19:02.199
It could be.

00:19:02.199 --> 00:19:09.864
I mean, it's almost funny to talk about it at all, but you know, on top of the well itself, it could have 20 different owners.

00:19:10.213 --> 00:19:18.773
It could be the operator that owns 70%, then you have the landowner might have some, and then it's, you know, part parts of it, you know, farmed out to others.

00:19:19.193 --> 00:19:21.703
And so there's, there's a lot of different owners involved in that.

00:19:22.273 --> 00:19:25.673
But, um, that's a good, that's a good question.

00:19:25.673 --> 00:19:32.743
But like, um, in this base and in the DJ basin, uh, the, the wells aren't as expensive as they are to drill, say in the Delaware basin in Texas.

00:19:33.104 --> 00:19:35.364
in West Texas, or Southern New Mexico.

00:19:35.983 --> 00:19:37.364
Those costs quite a bit more.

00:19:37.364 --> 00:19:38.854
They're, they're almost double the cost.

00:19:38.864 --> 00:19:39.384
Harder?

00:19:39.384 --> 00:19:39.933
Deeper?

00:19:39.943 --> 00:19:39.953
A

00:19:40.213 --> 00:19:42.193
little, little deeper, a little different rock.

00:19:42.223 --> 00:19:45.624
And, uh, you know, a little different production profile as well.

00:19:45.624 --> 00:19:55.618
They Sometimes when you're drilling deep, it might require an extra, uh, string of casing, which casing is just, uh, you know, a tubular, you know, the rubber around the

00:19:55.659 --> 00:19:56.699
drill kind of, right.

00:19:56.699 --> 00:19:57.159
Or whatever.

00:19:57.219 --> 00:19:57.608
Yes.

00:19:57.638 --> 00:19:57.888
Yeah.

00:19:57.888 --> 00:20:00.209
It, it holds, it holds the earth back from caving in on you.

00:20:00.209 --> 00:20:05.568
And sometimes when you're drilling, you may have to run an extra string and that alone can cost you another million.

00:20:05.568 --> 00:20:06.048
So it,

00:20:06.499 --> 00:20:08.068
it, extra string is another casing.

00:20:08.148 --> 00:20:08.348
Yeah.

00:20:08.348 --> 00:20:12.259
Another, yeah, I say string, they call it string, but when you're looking at something that's.

00:20:12.538 --> 00:20:13.548
two miles long.

00:20:13.608 --> 00:20:24.229
Uh, it actually, I mean, honestly, a tubing string that goes two miles long or all the way down to where the reservoir is, it actually almost behaves like rubber band.

00:20:24.229 --> 00:20:28.838
I mean, it's, it's elastic because it is steel, but you know, steel is somewhat pliable.

00:20:29.088 --> 00:20:29.209
Sure.

00:20:29.229 --> 00:20:30.249
Yeah, it's a lot of weight.

00:20:30.318 --> 00:20:34.209
Is that all one piece or the bolts together or welds together, I suppose?

00:20:34.239 --> 00:20:37.308
No, they're, uh, there's, there's sections that are screwed together.

00:20:37.419 --> 00:20:37.709
Yeah.

00:20:37.749 --> 00:20:37.949
Yeah.

00:20:37.949 --> 00:20:41.229
And that's typically when you're driving down the road and you see a Derek.

00:20:41.493 --> 00:20:58.423
That Derek exists for two things to, to, yeah, to, to hold the pipe up and have it ready to, to go in the well, but also it may be carrying a big, you know, block that's, that's pulling that pipe up or, or dropping it into the well, because you need to have a heavy duty structure to be able to handle that kind of weight.

00:20:58.423 --> 00:20:59.243
I imagine, yeah.

00:20:59.574 --> 00:21:02.834
Um, couple of questions on your firm.

00:21:02.913 --> 00:21:04.423
How do you guys organize?

00:21:04.423 --> 00:21:09.763
You're the president and then most of you are engineers and of various sorts and whatever.

00:21:09.763 --> 00:21:10.384
Do you have.

00:21:10.763 --> 00:21:12.193
Like an administrative function.

00:21:12.193 --> 00:21:14.203
Do you have VPs of this or that?

00:21:14.273 --> 00:21:17.554
Like, how do you, uh, manage the operation?

00:21:17.794 --> 00:21:19.243
Yeah, good, uh, good question.

00:21:19.243 --> 00:21:22.663
I didn't answer you before, but we do have nine partners at the firm.

00:21:22.733 --> 00:21:29.534
Um, they're all, uh, they've all been at the firm for at least, you know, seven, eight years before you can become a partner.

00:21:29.544 --> 00:21:32.023
And typically a partner is, is.

00:21:32.999 --> 00:21:34.838
vote it in based on their performance.

00:21:34.979 --> 00:21:43.749
You know, if you're, you know, if you're a good, uh, good performer, um, you know, there's some people that can kind of make it rain, so to speak, where they can bring in projects left and right.

00:21:44.288 --> 00:21:46.229
Uh, there's others who are just, they're machines.

00:21:46.239 --> 00:21:51.769
They can just, they can, they love the work and they just build hour after hour, after hour, clients love them.

00:21:52.469 --> 00:22:14.663
Uh, but, but usually those, those, those kinds of, um, uh, associates make partner, but pretty much everyone at our And, uh, and efficient at what they do and, and I'll say that, and anybody can say that, but the reality is that, um, people don't stay around that long if they, if they're not pulling their weight.

00:22:14.913 --> 00:22:16.903
And it's not we terminate anyone.

00:22:17.193 --> 00:22:23.753
We try, we try to be very select, select one who we, um, hire, but, um, we also make it clear up front.

00:22:24.064 --> 00:22:25.844
We're not here to hold your hand.

00:22:25.903 --> 00:22:33.374
We want self sufficient people who know how to ask the right questions, pay attention, take good notes.

00:22:33.554 --> 00:22:38.044
We don't want you asking, you can ask once, you can ask twice, but if you ask three times, that's a red flag, right?

00:22:38.044 --> 00:22:38.433
Right,

00:22:38.433 --> 00:22:38.743
right.

00:22:39.173 --> 00:22:41.384
And after a while, we don't even want you to ask twice anymore.

00:22:41.983 --> 00:22:42.284
Yeah.

00:22:42.284 --> 00:22:43.183
That, that could be the case.

00:22:43.183 --> 00:22:53.864
But, but I, I'm, I'm blessed with some really, really good, uh, engineers and, and geologists and, and data analyst techs type at the firm, and that's kind of pretty much what we're made of.

00:22:53.864 --> 00:22:55.273
We have a few back office staff.

00:22:55.278 --> 00:22:56.348
Yeah, I was gonna say, but billing

00:22:56.489 --> 00:22:57.229
and different things like that.

00:22:57.703 --> 00:22:57.943
Yeah.

00:22:57.949 --> 00:23:07.064
But we're, but we're very lean and mean and, and we try to do that'cause a, I want'em stay profitable, but, um, you know, everybody has kind of learned.

00:23:08.213 --> 00:23:11.963
various parts of, of patrolling consulting.

00:23:11.963 --> 00:23:14.443
It's not, no, one's a one trick pony at our shop.

00:23:14.443 --> 00:23:16.913
You can't just do one thing or they work in one basin.

00:23:17.483 --> 00:23:19.284
Everybody works in every basin.

00:23:19.284 --> 00:23:20.523
We want everybody to have.

00:23:21.074 --> 00:23:25.304
Uh, the experience, because sometimes you go into a meeting and you may be talking about three or four basins.

00:23:25.513 --> 00:23:25.763
Right.

00:23:25.804 --> 00:23:33.503
Or the deal you're working on that you gotta, you gotta know, you gotta be able to see something right away and you can say, that does not smell right.

00:23:33.505 --> 00:23:36.153
And we do a lot of smell tests in our business.

00:23:36.163 --> 00:23:36.364
Okay.

00:23:36.403 --> 00:23:41.334
Uh, clients will call and say, Hey, we're about to spend 20 million, but can you give me three hours?

00:23:41.334 --> 00:23:44.574
Can you just look at this for me and tell me, does something not make sense?

00:23:45.193 --> 00:23:46.314
And, uh, and.

00:23:47.253 --> 00:23:53.134
And often we'll do that for free just because we want our clients to be successful because they'll come back to us if they are.

00:23:53.804 --> 00:23:55.074
Um, but.

00:23:55.403 --> 00:23:56.594
Anyway, back to the firm.

00:23:56.604 --> 00:24:04.933
You, you asked, so I told you about the partners and the employees, but we're, we're very flat where if you want a title, you can have it at our firm.

00:24:05.824 --> 00:24:07.513
We do have some vice presidents.

00:24:07.544 --> 00:24:13.943
Uh, Zane Meekins is an executive vice president, uh, and, and he and I are equals at the firm.

00:24:13.943 --> 00:24:15.294
I mean, he's way smarter than me.

00:24:15.334 --> 00:24:17.233
Uh, and, and he, he's a talented person.

00:24:17.233 --> 00:24:23.308
He, he's a billing machine, but, um, But he, he and I have, you know, been there.

00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:24.699
Kind of the main leaders of it.

00:24:24.959 --> 00:24:25.219
How do you

00:24:25.219 --> 00:24:26.269
keep projects straight?

00:24:26.278 --> 00:24:31.169
Like, I'm thinking that there's multiple people working on almost every client's project.

00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:31.739
Yeah.

00:24:31.739 --> 00:24:32.058
Right?

00:24:32.348 --> 00:24:35.608
It's not just a one on one, by the hour kind of an engagement.

00:24:35.909 --> 00:24:36.278
Correct.

00:24:36.278 --> 00:24:39.209
It's typically a team, uh, that works on each project.

00:24:39.259 --> 00:24:41.749
It could be a two person team.

00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:42.628
It could be four.

00:24:42.729 --> 00:24:43.098
I see.

00:24:43.358 --> 00:24:44.148
Um, we've had There's just kind

00:24:44.148 --> 00:24:48.719
of a team lead for each one, kind of, to make sure that the project stays on track and Yeah.

00:24:48.719 --> 00:24:49.838
deliverables are known.

00:24:50.114 --> 00:25:01.284
Normally, there's a team lead and it's normally, typically one of the partners, uh, but we have some non partners who, who will make partner, I'm, I'm certain if they want it, you know, cause you, you have to, you have to want to do it and you have to choose,

00:25:01.604 --> 00:25:01.874
choose

00:25:01.874 --> 00:25:01.963
to

00:25:01.963 --> 00:25:02.364
join.

00:25:02.463 --> 00:25:04.443
Some years it turns out we don't make any money.

00:25:04.614 --> 00:25:04.844
Yeah.

00:25:05.354 --> 00:25:06.834
And then all the partners get a pay cut.

00:25:07.044 --> 00:25:07.314
Yeah.

00:25:07.344 --> 00:25:07.814
I mean.

00:25:08.209 --> 00:25:08.388
Yeah.

00:25:08.388 --> 00:25:18.648
The last few years have presented some challenges, uh, it's, it, you know, the, the stories you hear about in the press, it's, you know, every business is up, up, up, and this is a great story and all that.

00:25:18.648 --> 00:25:24.489
But as you know, cause we talked about it, uh, there's times don't go the way you think they will.

00:25:24.490 --> 00:25:25.999
And,

00:25:25.999 --> 00:25:28.909
um, but what did you do to survive that?

00:25:28.959 --> 00:25:31.568
Like, cause I'm sure your revenue is just about went to nothing.

00:25:31.568 --> 00:25:37.838
You got some PPP, I suppose, but did you do like leave of absences or have to do anything like that in your firm?

00:25:39.098 --> 00:25:42.628
I'll say, almost did nothing, Kurt.

00:25:42.709 --> 00:25:47.578
And, um, and I will say, and it's because historically we've done nothing in that.

00:25:47.999 --> 00:25:58.209
In that I, we, in the time that I'd been at the firm, we had never had layoffs and I didn't want to be the first person, you know, as president of the firm, having layoffs.

00:25:58.239 --> 00:25:58.608
And.

00:25:59.203 --> 00:26:05.673
Um, and, and we didn't, we didn't have layoffs, but we did have a couple of people that left, which, uh, you know, It was okay.

00:26:06.294 --> 00:26:06.933
It was okay.

00:26:06.934 --> 00:26:07.884
They don't have enough work for you anyway.

00:26:07.884 --> 00:26:11.114
They had, yeah, they had great opportunities and, and maybe they saw the writing on the wall.

00:26:11.114 --> 00:26:12.153
So that, that helped.

00:26:12.683 --> 00:26:16.788
And, um, and, and, You know, we, we hustled as best we could.

00:26:16.788 --> 00:26:20.278
Everybody knew that, you know, everybody was on high alert.

00:26:20.278 --> 00:26:20.608
Right.

00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:33.388
And, um, we were worried about what was going to happen to our firm, but the reality is that oil and gas continued to flow and transactions continued to happen at a lower, at a lower level.

00:26:33.439 --> 00:26:33.739
Right.

00:26:33.929 --> 00:26:37.519
Uh, banks still required their oil and gas operators.

00:26:37.528 --> 00:26:40.598
Sarbanes Oxley was still going.

00:26:40.598 --> 00:26:40.729
Yeah.

00:26:40.729 --> 00:26:40.989
Right.

00:26:41.138 --> 00:26:42.038
Lawyers were lawyering.

00:26:42.038 --> 00:26:42.694
Accountants were accounting.

00:26:42.694 --> 00:26:43.789
So you didn't suffer as

00:26:43.789 --> 00:26:45.541
much as a lot of your clients probably.

00:26:45.541 --> 00:26:45.980
We didn't.

00:26:45.980 --> 00:26:47.358
But, you know, we saw a cutback.

00:26:47.358 --> 00:26:48.929
But we didn't, we didn't suffer.

00:26:49.398 --> 00:26:51.679
Um, you know, we didn't have any salary cuts.

00:26:51.699 --> 00:26:52.568
We were just blessed.

00:26:52.929 --> 00:26:56.479
Uh, our, our, the way we work, it's typically salary and bonus.

00:26:56.479 --> 00:26:58.088
With bonuses based on performance.

00:26:58.088 --> 00:26:58.769
That's what I was going to say.

00:26:58.769 --> 00:27:00.156
I was going to ask that next.

00:27:00.156 --> 00:27:02.558
So, you know, bonuses got squeezed and, you know, and, and.

00:27:02.824 --> 00:27:08.003
If that's the biggest problem we faced on our compensation level, I'm actually pretty happy with that.

00:27:08.003 --> 00:27:18.054
But, uh, but you know, it's because our employees and partners, You know, kept pushing through all that and, and, um, but, but yeah, I don't want to go through that again.

00:27:18.124 --> 00:27:18.534
Oh, good.

00:27:18.634 --> 00:27:18.993
Yeah.

00:27:19.003 --> 00:27:19.574
I hope we don't.

00:27:19.624 --> 00:27:19.894
Yeah.

00:27:20.183 --> 00:27:23.703
Um, I was going to ask for maybe kind of a flyover of the industries.

00:27:23.703 --> 00:27:28.304
You've mentioned a few different basins already as far as the, you know, the Permian, the DJ, et cetera.

00:27:28.703 --> 00:27:35.314
Um, talk to me about like, yeah, airplane ride over the nation and what, what's it cost?

00:27:35.334 --> 00:27:36.443
What's it valued at?

00:27:36.443 --> 00:27:39.844
Is there better and less good oils, different places?

00:27:39.854 --> 00:27:40.963
Where's the gas at?

00:27:40.964 --> 00:27:41.223
Okay.

00:27:41.554 --> 00:27:41.874
Okay.

00:27:41.923 --> 00:27:43.213
That's, that's a good question.

00:27:43.213 --> 00:27:45.804
And I'll start with prices, oil and gas prices.

00:27:46.294 --> 00:27:52.453
As you know, right now, oil is trending around 85 per barrel, which is high.

00:27:52.463 --> 00:27:57.743
It, it's, it's been below 80 for quite a while, but it's, you know, in the fifties and sixties, we're doing okay.

00:27:57.743 --> 00:28:00.943
But when it gets up in the seventies and eighties, that's very healthy.

00:28:01.473 --> 00:28:02.973
So oil is very high right now.

00:28:03.023 --> 00:28:05.919
Now, natural gas though, Is very low.

00:28:05.999 --> 00:28:06.558
Oh, really?

00:28:06.659 --> 00:28:08.028
It's below 2.

00:28:08.598 --> 00:28:13.449
And, and, and, you know, we're going into the summer months, you know, coming up in the next few months, so.

00:28:13.659 --> 00:28:15.519
Probably get cheaper still before it gets better.

00:28:15.558 --> 00:28:16.578
It could, it could.

00:28:16.638 --> 00:28:20.278
Uh, the reality is that our industry is so very good.

00:28:20.699 --> 00:28:28.128
at drilling oil and gas wells, that we can almost deliver oil and gas real time, really natural gas.

00:28:28.638 --> 00:28:33.098
Um, we have, we have two basins that have massive gas wells.

00:28:33.108 --> 00:28:40.608
There's the, there's the Hainesville Shell, which is in, um, in western, uh, Louisiana and Eastern East Texas.

00:28:40.689 --> 00:28:41.038
Okay.

00:28:41.338 --> 00:28:48.278
Then we have the Appalachian Basin up on the East Coast, which is mainly Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Ohio.

00:28:48.358 --> 00:28:48.578
Yep.

00:28:48.878 --> 00:28:49.769
That's the biggest one.

00:28:49.868 --> 00:28:53.128
Uh, we're talking TCFs of gas up there.

00:28:53.648 --> 00:28:54.028
Well, that was

00:28:54.028 --> 00:28:59.028
handy for the Northeast to be able to heat all those houses in the winter months, having all that gas right there.

00:28:59.214 --> 00:29:03.673
You are touching on a sore subject, sore subject.

00:29:04.544 --> 00:29:10.443
That natural gas would be the people up in, up in the North, uh, far Northeast.

00:29:11.344 --> 00:29:16.213
They would love to have that gas, but New York won't let them put pipelines across the state to get it there.

00:29:16.773 --> 00:29:22.594
They have to bring in heating oil on ships into their ports to, to get through the worst part of the winters

00:29:22.644 --> 00:29:23.624
because New York.

00:29:24.499 --> 00:29:24.669
New

00:29:24.669 --> 00:29:25.378
York, um,

00:29:25.388 --> 00:29:25.778
so.

00:29:25.898 --> 00:29:26.469
Does New York

00:29:26.469 --> 00:29:26.929
get some?

00:29:28.128 --> 00:29:31.058
Um, well, I mean, yeah, some, but.

00:29:31.199 --> 00:29:31.499
Not as much.

00:29:31.509 --> 00:29:32.989
They've banned, they've banned drilling.

00:29:33.019 --> 00:29:33.229
Wow.

00:29:33.229 --> 00:29:33.909
They've banned fracking.

00:29:33.929 --> 00:29:34.259
Wow.

00:29:34.308 --> 00:29:37.909
And if you, if you actually look at a map, you know, Pennsylvania sits right below New York.

00:29:37.919 --> 00:29:38.209
Right.

00:29:38.209 --> 00:29:39.479
You know, there's a border.

00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:39.949
And New York's

00:29:39.949 --> 00:29:40.999
super skinny right there.

00:29:41.378 --> 00:29:41.618
Super skinny.

00:29:41.618 --> 00:29:42.429
It doesn't have to go through that much.

00:29:42.429 --> 00:29:45.598
But if you look at oil and gas development, it goes right up to the border.

00:29:46.023 --> 00:29:53.624
Uh, uh, New York and there's nothing on the other side and those poor farmers on the other side of that fence aren't getting anything right there like North Korea, South

00:29:53.624 --> 00:29:54.263
Korea line.

00:29:54.443 --> 00:29:56.054
It is exactly like that.

00:29:56.054 --> 00:30:02.074
And probably politically to, uh, I didn't say that, but, uh, but it has got exactly like that.

00:30:02.074 --> 00:30:12.344
And you think about the landowners and the farmers and all that, who had, who had nasty, nasty, unusable scrub land, or maybe it was farmland, but they are getting

00:30:12.384 --> 00:30:13.763
20, 000 a month It

00:30:14.179 --> 00:30:14.878
Oh, no, no.

00:30:14.888 --> 00:30:15.838
They get a lot more than that.

00:30:15.898 --> 00:30:16.269
Oh, whatever.

00:30:16.269 --> 00:30:16.432
Yeah.

00:30:16.432 --> 00:30:19.499
They get, they get tens of millions, uh, of dollars.

00:30:19.588 --> 00:30:23.723
Um, so just on the landowner perspective, it's tough, but New York, one won't allow Right.

00:30:23.723 --> 00:30:24.229
Think how much New York

00:30:24.229 --> 00:30:25.689
could tax all those people.

00:30:26.009 --> 00:30:26.358
They could.

00:30:26.388 --> 00:30:27.358
If you're listening to New York.

00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:28.093
Do you

00:30:28.093 --> 00:30:28.826
hear this?

00:30:28.826 --> 00:30:45.463
Well, the, the other ironic thing is that natural gas, uh, Is what has allowed the US to reduce its emissions over the last few decades because it's replaced coal and it's a cleaner burning fossil fuel and it really is going to be the way the world if the world is serious about reducing emissions.

00:30:45.963 --> 00:30:46.743
Uh, which the U.

00:30:46.743 --> 00:30:46.903
S.

00:30:46.903 --> 00:30:52.144
has been, it needs to continue that flip from natural gas, or from coal to natural gas.

00:30:52.153 --> 00:30:52.493
For sure.

00:30:52.773 --> 00:30:57.273
But we, we know some of the Asian countries right now, they're building coal plants at record paces.

00:30:57.604 --> 00:31:00.433
And, and they are all about energy security.

00:31:00.784 --> 00:31:09.618
I don't blame them for doing what they're doing, but while they are creating all these coal plants, and we're shuttering ours here, and, and, uh, Yeah, so we're making the world a

00:31:09.618 --> 00:31:10.308
cleaner place.

00:31:10.348 --> 00:31:10.929
We're trying.

00:31:10.959 --> 00:31:14.898
While they, you know, make dirtier air for everybody.

00:31:15.419 --> 00:31:16.138
We are trying.

00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:16.727
And natural gas.

00:31:16.727 --> 00:31:17.199
Well, and that's the

00:31:17.199 --> 00:31:31.159
fallacy of, of Europe in their cancellation of all the energy industries over there is, you know, okay, you can make Europe maybe a cleaner place, arguably, but it'll, the world's going to be dirtier and your people are going to be poorer.

00:31:31.308 --> 00:31:31.759
poor.

00:31:33.239 --> 00:31:33.749
Sorry.

00:31:33.808 --> 00:31:34.098
Yeah.

00:31:34.098 --> 00:31:35.989
I understand what they did.

00:31:35.999 --> 00:31:41.538
And, um, you know, maybe it was fashionable at the time, but they are, they are changing their tune.

00:31:41.538 --> 00:31:43.608
They, they, they are, uh,

00:31:43.628 --> 00:31:47.308
if I was in Germany, I would be lobbying to like build nuclear plants.

00:31:47.409 --> 00:31:47.659
Yeah.

00:31:48.159 --> 00:31:48.368
Yeah.

00:31:48.368 --> 00:31:56.249
Well, at least natural gas, the irony of not using natural gas is one thing, but shutting in nuclear is, which is these things.

00:31:56.933 --> 00:32:05.963
You know, the most dense, cleanest, you know, cleanest fuel that we have, um, you know, compared to solar or wind, uh, it's, it's just ludicrous.

00:32:06.013 --> 00:32:09.523
But uh, anyway, it is, so our big

00:32:09.653 --> 00:32:13.983
gas things are up by Pennsylvania and stuff and then down by Louisiana.

00:32:13.983 --> 00:32:17.534
And then there's other less major ones, I guess, like the one over here.

00:32:17.939 --> 00:32:19.068
You know, East of Greeley and stuff.

00:32:19.159 --> 00:32:21.509
Yeah, DJ Basin's fantastic for natural gas.

00:32:21.798 --> 00:32:28.888
And all those basins added up around the United States, there's, there's eight or nine or ten basins that, that deliver natural gas to the U.

00:32:28.888 --> 00:32:33.709
S., not to mention the Gulf of Mexico, where massive amounts of oil and natural gas come from.

00:32:33.739 --> 00:32:34.048
Okay.

00:32:34.338 --> 00:32:47.648
Um, that, that natural gas, we're so good at getting it to markets that, you know, we kind of, we, we shoot our own foot off because the moment the gas pushes up, gas prices push up to three, four dollars.

00:32:47.888 --> 00:32:51.558
The rigs come back, and then here comes the production, and it just comes right back down.

00:32:52.169 --> 00:32:54.689
Uh, so, I'm simplifying things here.

00:32:54.689 --> 00:32:54.999
I mean, that's market

00:32:54.999 --> 00:32:55.898
competition though, right?

00:32:55.909 --> 00:32:57.888
Like, that's kind of what it's for.

00:32:57.949 --> 00:32:58.409
It is.

00:32:58.919 --> 00:32:59.278
It is.

00:32:59.278 --> 00:33:07.618
But the other thing that's kind of changed the game for the United States is that LNG, or liquefied natural gas, is cherished.

00:33:07.949 --> 00:33:14.249
In Europe and, and, and other areas of the world that need that energy that they can't get from other places.

00:33:14.608 --> 00:33:16.969
And we have, we're, we're building LNG plants.

00:33:16.979 --> 00:33:18.568
We're shipping LNG overseas.

00:33:18.568 --> 00:33:23.459
We have contracts for 10, 20 years to deliver, and there's more coming online.

00:33:23.989 --> 00:33:27.409
Uh, but there's some regulatory things that have slowed that down.

00:33:27.769 --> 00:33:28.709
That's probably why the.

00:33:29.398 --> 00:33:38.808
Russi Ukraine war will last a long, long time, because otherwise Europe would just buy gas from Russia, so we have to have time to develop that market for our LNG.

00:33:39.608 --> 00:33:40.338
And they were,

00:33:40.939 --> 00:33:45.519
and they were buying a lot through the Nord Stream Pipeline, but that got blown up, as you know.

00:33:45.528 --> 00:33:46.318
Got blown up.

00:33:46.423 --> 00:33:47.064
Got blown up.

00:33:47.634 --> 00:33:47.963
I know.

00:33:47.964 --> 00:33:50.124
I can see you want to go down.

00:33:50.953 --> 00:33:53.144
Just check it with, you know, if you know anything,

00:33:53.284 --> 00:34:02.054
I have not investigated it personally, but I've heard, I've heard there might be some people not too far from us that, that might've had some, uh, who knows?

00:34:03.153 --> 00:34:06.653
But, you know, they cut off that gas supply to Europe, so they're desperate for our gas.

00:34:06.663 --> 00:34:09.943
So, the markets exist, but we just can't get it over there fast enough.

00:34:10.384 --> 00:34:17.384
So, I think long term, natural gas is the bridge fuel, and it's going to be a great place to be long term.

00:34:17.713 --> 00:34:21.724
But right now, oil is king, and it continues to be king, because the prices are good.

00:34:22.289 --> 00:34:23.798
We're good at delivering oil wells.

00:34:23.798 --> 00:34:24.059
It's super

00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:25.398
easy to transport anywhere.

00:34:25.469 --> 00:34:28.929
You know, gas, you can't really do it without pipelines and lines and stuff, right?

00:34:29.329 --> 00:34:30.159
Yep, it, well.

00:34:30.179 --> 00:34:33.728
Oil's dense enough where you can take it somewhere with a truck or a train, it's not quite as dense.

00:34:34.389 --> 00:34:34.838
You're right.

00:34:34.838 --> 00:34:37.369
So expensive to move around in that way.

00:34:37.759 --> 00:34:38.449
That is true.

00:34:38.478 --> 00:34:38.989
That is true.

00:34:38.989 --> 00:34:44.628
And, and it's, you know, energy dense and it also can be refined into so many products that the world needs.

00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:44.918
Yeah.

00:34:44.958 --> 00:34:47.369
Make your WD 40, your REI jacket.

00:34:48.298 --> 00:34:48.668
Like it.

00:34:48.668 --> 00:34:48.878
Yeah.

00:34:48.878 --> 00:34:49.588
REI jacket.

00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:49.818
True.

00:34:50.208 --> 00:34:50.518
True.

00:34:50.518 --> 00:34:54.239
I mean, I, I wished, uh, I wish the public.

00:34:54.818 --> 00:34:56.018
throughout the world, not just the U.

00:34:56.018 --> 00:34:56.199
S.

00:34:56.199 --> 00:35:05.009
But throughout the world understood that virtually everything they see and everything that's around them in the room there and was developed using hydrocarbons, fossil fuels.

00:35:05.128 --> 00:35:07.728
Um, and that's the way it is.

00:35:07.748 --> 00:35:09.719
And it's gonna be that way until I die.

00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:13.728
It's gonna be that way for a long time because there's no replacements.

00:35:14.268 --> 00:35:21.898
Just because let's just say you you want to have energy from solar or energy from wind or develop, get electricity from those things.

00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:26.143
That doesn't mean that you can get on a jet and fly to Europe.

00:35:26.184 --> 00:35:28.934
It doesn't mean you can, you can make concrete.

00:35:29.103 --> 00:35:32.364
Dow Chemical can't exist without the petroleum industry.

00:35:32.543 --> 00:35:34.454
It doesn't mean you can have certain medicines.

00:35:34.603 --> 00:35:45.643
It doesn't mean a hospital can operate machinery that they need to keep people alive because that machinery and, and how it's constructed and how it's energized is through fossil fuels and hydrocarbon.

00:35:45.653 --> 00:35:52.934
So, uh, I, I hope people start to understand that, but you know, uh, I will say this, I just want to make it clear.

00:35:52.934 --> 00:35:55.259
I'll I think all energy is good.

00:35:55.259 --> 00:35:57.509
I think we're going to need more of it.

00:35:57.579 --> 00:36:07.449
Assuming that the population of the Earth continues to grow, and, and the population on the Earth that is either impoverished or doesn't have what we have, they want what we have.

00:36:07.539 --> 00:36:07.889
For sure.

00:36:07.889 --> 00:36:08.909
They want refrigerators.

00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:09.268
Right.

00:36:09.268 --> 00:36:10.139
They would like a car.

00:36:10.528 --> 00:36:11.643
Well, energy is money.

00:36:12.143 --> 00:36:12.614
I've been fond

00:36:12.623 --> 00:36:17.324
of saying that, you know, you can just print money apparently, but you can't just print energy.

00:36:17.324 --> 00:36:21.023
You have to go dig it out of the ground or get it from here to there.

00:36:21.333 --> 00:36:21.773
You can't.

00:36:21.824 --> 00:36:32.003
And so I assume that, that those, those, uh, less fortunate, uh, countries and, and, you know, continents almost are going to want a better life.

00:36:32.103 --> 00:36:32.364
Yeah.

00:36:32.543 --> 00:36:34.393
And how's the fuel reserves at Africa?

00:36:34.748 --> 00:36:35.458
Do you know about that?

00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:35.958
I'm sorry.

00:36:36.139 --> 00:36:36.969
In Africa?

00:36:37.048 --> 00:36:37.648
What about it?

00:36:37.688 --> 00:36:39.599
Like, do they have energy reserves over there?

00:36:39.648 --> 00:36:41.028
Coal, oil, natural gas?

00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:41.398
Yes,

00:36:41.429 --> 00:36:42.009
they do.

00:36:42.059 --> 00:36:45.159
Uh, it's not being developed much at all, except for offshore.

00:36:45.498 --> 00:36:55.009
Uh, there's, there's some nice offshore, um, opportunities that are happening with some of the major operators that are doing things in conjunction with some of the countries there.

00:36:55.449 --> 00:37:06.389
But you know, virtually every continent you can think of, it's, uh, maybe you can, you You can, uh, not think of the arctics, but virtually every continent has significant shale resources.

00:37:06.548 --> 00:37:06.878
Okay.

00:37:07.128 --> 00:37:09.179
Many of them could do exactly what we do here.

00:37:09.179 --> 00:37:10.918
Australia, South America.

00:37:10.918 --> 00:37:11.509
Absolutely.

00:37:11.778 --> 00:37:16.498
Australia has a lot of coal and they have coal bed methane and which we have in the United States as well.

00:37:16.498 --> 00:37:18.398
But, but they have that over there as well.

00:37:18.708 --> 00:37:24.159
And they've developed that long, long time ago and have been producing natural gas, uh, you know, through their coal seams.

00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:28.688
Um, but virtually every continent has that, but they just don't have the.

00:37:28.903 --> 00:37:34.684
The knowledge or the resources to develop that or in some cases they're being asked not to develop it,

00:37:34.844 --> 00:37:35.414
right?

00:37:35.514 --> 00:37:36.804
You know, you know,

00:37:37.324 --> 00:37:38.583
I saw that conversation.

00:37:38.594 --> 00:37:41.824
Did you see it with the Ghana maybe?

00:37:42.273 --> 00:37:43.884
Uh, it went viral last week.

00:37:43.884 --> 00:37:55.143
The president of Ghana was asked by some BBC guy, you know, Oh, you've got all these fossil fuel resources off your coast and, uh, you know, you're going to be developing all this.

00:37:55.143 --> 00:37:57.393
And what do you think about the climate impact of that or something?

00:37:57.393 --> 00:38:04.568
And he's like, dude, we have protected millions of acres of forests in Ghana through intentional efforts.

00:38:04.969 --> 00:38:07.268
Meanwhile, Britain doesn't have hardly a tree.

00:38:07.708 --> 00:38:09.798
Uh, so don't you lecture me about climate.

00:38:09.809 --> 00:38:15.708
We capture more carbon with our forests than, uh, we'll ever produce out of this oil field.

00:38:16.539 --> 00:38:18.039
Yep, and, and he's right.

00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:29.003
I mean, you think about, like, Europe, uh, you know, they, Even crazier in the United States, we take wood and we, you know, convert them into wood pellets, ship them over to Europe and Europe burns them there.

00:38:29.574 --> 00:38:37.094
And it's classified as a green, on the green side of renewables because we can, we can grow that tree again, right?

00:38:37.384 --> 00:38:38.253
Get cut it down.

00:38:38.264 --> 00:38:39.594
We can make more wood pellets.

00:38:39.594 --> 00:38:40.364
So it's renewable.

00:38:40.534 --> 00:38:43.764
Well, you capture the carbon and then you put it back in the I suppose.

00:38:43.773 --> 00:38:44.023
Yeah.

00:38:44.054 --> 00:38:53.463
It's, it is a little funny, but it's the world we live in and hopefully Most of those things that seem a little absurd, you know, we'll start lining themselves out.

00:38:53.474 --> 00:38:58.773
And, uh, and I'm hoping that our knowledge and our technologies here in the United States continue to spread around the world.

00:38:58.773 --> 00:39:06.123
And that actually does go help those countries get out of poverty because energy having energy means you can be, you can come out of poverty.

00:39:06.224 --> 00:39:06.483
Yeah.

00:39:06.784 --> 00:39:08.523
And, uh, it's just the way it is.

00:39:08.563 --> 00:39:13.648
I mean, just the, We take our cell phones so for granted and having Wi Fi.

00:39:13.898 --> 00:39:14.239
Right.

00:39:14.329 --> 00:39:20.838
And if you could be able to get cell phones into the hands of some of the impoverished, they might be able to, you know, request things.

00:39:21.009 --> 00:39:21.898
They could have banking.

00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:24.418
You could start new societies.

00:39:24.438 --> 00:39:24.778
Sure.

00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:26.619
In, uh, in ways that Well,

00:39:26.619 --> 00:39:28.039
yes, and you need more than that.

00:39:28.398 --> 00:39:31.298
You know, you need to be able to manufacture things.

00:39:31.329 --> 00:39:33.898
You need to be able to make food.

00:39:33.989 --> 00:39:39.668
You know, the energy to do that is beyond the Because the knowledge economy is great.

00:39:40.108 --> 00:39:46.858
You know, in the internet, digital world and having avatars, you know, sword fighting and metal land or something.

00:39:47.309 --> 00:39:56.309
But we still have to eat and live in places and drive around and get from place to place and all those things to make those things happen, cost energy.

00:39:57.708 --> 00:39:58.179
It does.

00:39:58.219 --> 00:40:03.179
Uh, it's amazing how much energy goes in just to fertilize and doing it, using a fertilizer for, for farming.

00:40:03.188 --> 00:40:16.688
And, uh, but you're right, you want to have a society that has goods and services that can be traded and to do that, you, it takes energy to get there no matter what it is, and, um, and, and there's just countries that still have virtually nothing and, uh, it's.

00:40:18.809 --> 00:40:19.829
Let's go back to the tour.

00:40:19.838 --> 00:40:21.579
So you've got the big gas areas.

00:40:22.389 --> 00:40:24.248
Talk to me about the oil basins.

00:40:24.268 --> 00:40:26.548
Like, is Texas still pretty prime time?

00:40:26.548 --> 00:40:29.659
Is it, there's just so much oil and Texas is going to last forever?

00:40:29.659 --> 00:40:30.869
Or is it going to run out someday?

00:40:32.454 --> 00:40:33.434
Yeah, good question.

00:40:33.483 --> 00:40:35.664
Uh, yeah, Texas is king currently.

00:40:35.713 --> 00:40:39.253
Uh, Southern New Mexico is, I'll put that in with Texas right now.

00:40:39.503 --> 00:40:42.844
They're kind of, the Permian Basin's right there and Permian Basin is king.

00:40:43.414 --> 00:40:50.804
Um, I'm not looking at the Gulf of Mexico right now, which is, you know, that's a, that's been developed for decades.

00:40:50.804 --> 00:40:55.753
And there's, there's big, big oil and gas coming out of that area and, and it will always be that way.

00:40:55.753 --> 00:41:03.293
But on land, Permian is king and uh, it's, you know, just the size of the oil wells are bigger and better than most.

00:41:04.014 --> 00:41:07.864
And, um, and there's, there's lots and lots of acreage to drill.

00:41:08.414 --> 00:41:16.048
And, and it's also pretty cool in that it's flexible, in that while oil is, is prices are high, you can go out and target oil wells.

00:41:16.048 --> 00:41:21.268
But as soon as the gas prices pushed back up, there's areas of the basin that have just massive gas deposits.

00:41:21.829 --> 00:41:24.398
And so, you know, it, it can keep going.

00:41:25.318 --> 00:41:25.829
Um, it.

00:41:25.940 --> 00:41:30.208
There are other basins you wanted to run around the country.

00:41:30.248 --> 00:41:30.518
I'm from

00:41:30.518 --> 00:41:31.139
North Dakota.

00:41:31.289 --> 00:41:32.248
Yeah, North Dakota.

00:41:32.250 --> 00:41:35.228
So obviously that's become an important basin in the last 20 years.

00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:45.798
It's been hugely important to me and our firm in that, in that, uh, you know, a decade ago, we did so much work in North Dakota in the Williston Basin and focused on the Bakken and the Three Forks zones.

00:41:46.528 --> 00:42:04.018
And, uh, and that's a beautiful oil play that, uh, that, uh, It wasn't the, the OG of, of horizontal oil drilling, but it really perfected a lot of techniques and as far as, as far as how you drill your wells, how you space them, how you complete them.

00:42:04.418 --> 00:42:06.798
And a lot of that was carried over into other basins.

00:42:06.878 --> 00:42:12.378
You know, the Permian, Permian came on late when it comes to horizontal drilling and oil wells.

00:42:12.409 --> 00:42:12.789
Oh, really?

00:42:13.094 --> 00:42:13.864
Yeah, it was too easy.

00:42:13.893 --> 00:42:15.023
The other stuff was just easier.

00:42:15.023 --> 00:42:19.344
Well, they had so much vertical production and there's so much, so many things to go get.

00:42:19.983 --> 00:42:26.063
And, but what was nice about in the Permian, they waited, uh, not strategically, but it ended up that way.

00:42:26.873 --> 00:42:34.128
The other basins perfected, you know, the Williston basin, uh, you know, any, any of the, you know, even, even the Barnett shale, which is, you know, around four, four of Texas.

00:42:34.128 --> 00:42:34.923
So they didn't have to be the early

00:42:34.923 --> 00:42:35.443
adopters.

00:42:35.443 --> 00:42:37.364
It was cheaper by the time they came down there.

00:42:37.373 --> 00:42:38.173
Didn't have to.

00:42:38.333 --> 00:42:39.164
And then, uh.

00:42:39.164 --> 00:42:39.369
Yeah.

00:42:39.369 --> 00:42:53.648
Uh, a lot of that horizontal development, um, a lot of us perfected through gas drilling, but as gas kind of fell out of favor with low prices, a lot of those rigs and it started moving to the Permian and they just kept coming there and, and the results kept getting better and better.

00:42:53.648 --> 00:43:04.809
And now it's, um, it is probably the most transactions are happening there by far, uh, the most productions coming out of there by far, uh, on land, on land based, uh, U.

00:43:04.809 --> 00:43:04.958
S.

00:43:04.958 --> 00:43:06.599
based land operations.

00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:08.199
But, you know, you've got the D.

00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:08.369
J.

00:43:08.369 --> 00:43:11.289
Basin here in Colorado, which produces a lot of oil.

00:43:11.728 --> 00:43:15.548
Um, and you have, you know, the, the Permian Basin, which is two basins really.

00:43:15.548 --> 00:43:18.039
It's the, the Delaware Basin and the Midland Basin.

00:43:18.068 --> 00:43:18.409
Okay.

00:43:18.809 --> 00:43:22.548
Um, and, and that's, Midland Basin's a little more central West Texas.

00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:27.559
And then you have, I mean, California's been producing their heavy oil forever and, and that's still going on.

00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:30.009
But, you know, California's a whole nother issue.

00:43:30.228 --> 00:43:31.809
And it's, it's a very tough regulatory environment.

00:43:31.809 --> 00:43:32.438
More like New York.

00:43:32.449 --> 00:43:32.469
Yeah.

00:43:32.804 --> 00:43:37.664
You got to really want to be there because it's tough to drill wells anymore or complete them.

00:43:38.164 --> 00:43:42.893
And so it's dwindling and they're importing more oil than ever there.

00:43:43.483 --> 00:43:47.434
Um, even though it's a very green, thought of as a very green state.

00:43:47.983 --> 00:43:50.623
Um, But, you know, Louisiana is still doing its thing.

00:43:50.623 --> 00:43:53.193
It's always had oil and gas production up and down the coast.

00:43:53.193 --> 00:43:54.563
A little more conventional drilling.

00:43:54.653 --> 00:43:56.213
southeast doesn't have it much?

00:43:56.244 --> 00:43:57.873
No, not much else in the southeast.

00:43:57.893 --> 00:44:01.373
Uh, there's the Eagleford, Eagleford Sheltron, which is in, in South Texas.

00:44:01.844 --> 00:44:03.463
Uh, I should have mentioned that as well.

00:44:03.474 --> 00:44:09.248
That, that is somewhat of an OG as well, as far as, um, I haven't thought about that.

00:44:09.278 --> 00:44:20.239
OG is also oil gas, but, uh, but it it's tens of thousands of wells have been drilled there as well, just like in the Permian and, uh, lots of lots of oil and gas comes out of that basin.

00:44:20.358 --> 00:44:24.438
Um, and then, you know, there's a smattering of medium sized basins.

00:44:24.438 --> 00:44:30.579
That's Um, but it's mainly central, uh, south central U S all the way up and up into Canada,

00:44:30.579 --> 00:44:33.469
Kansas and Nebraska, there's a little bit here and there, there's, there's,

00:44:33.509 --> 00:44:35.478
there's, there's fields all throughout that area.

00:44:35.918 --> 00:44:44.298
Um, a lot of it still might be vertical production and, and, you know, some older fields are there, they were vertical wells only, and they'll never be horizontal.

00:44:44.838 --> 00:44:45.579
Um, but.

00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:53.128
But the horizontal drilling has really revolutionized things for the oil and gas industry.

00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:57.369
And you asked about, well, is the Permian going to run out and not be king?

00:44:58.188 --> 00:45:05.929
When I joined the industry 30 plus years ago, I was, you know, I was told, yeah, the Permian's on its last legs.

00:45:05.929 --> 00:45:10.628
You know, most of those wells are on their, their shallow production or low production.

00:45:10.628 --> 00:45:14.668
And, uh, and it's tough to make money out there and oil prices were terrible.

00:45:14.668 --> 00:45:27.688
And, uh, you know, every basin just flipped in that it went from, okay, we've got some activity here and then horizontal drilling and then, and then hydraulic fracturing.

00:45:28.349 --> 00:45:29.168
changed the game.

00:45:29.528 --> 00:45:31.239
And every basin came back alive.

00:45:31.438 --> 00:45:36.048
And, uh, it's, you know, it's amazing what, what we did in figuring that out.

00:45:36.059 --> 00:45:38.369
Now, I will say a lot of money was wasted.

00:45:39.188 --> 00:45:42.858
Billions and billions and billions in capital were wasted in drilling.

00:45:43.489 --> 00:45:47.768
Wells at all costs to create growth in your company.

00:45:47.838 --> 00:45:48.518
Oh,

00:45:48.579 --> 00:45:52.068
it was all about growing prior to 2018 because you're chasing

00:45:52.068 --> 00:45:53.409
the stock price for

00:45:53.498 --> 00:46:05.389
maybe, or you're, you're, you currently, currently the industry is thriving on cashflow and it's, and delivering money back to their shareholders and making a nice return.

00:46:05.628 --> 00:46:07.289
Growth is not the name of the game.

00:46:07.289 --> 00:46:11.849
Now back prior to 2018 growth at all costs was the name of the game.

00:46:12.389 --> 00:46:18.349
Let's just say a private equity firm had a management team and they were backing them and they drilled, drilled, drilled.

00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:23.418
They got this acreage looking sexy and they sold it to the highest buyer.

00:46:23.469 --> 00:46:26.739
And they, every, they flipped the management team, made money.

00:46:26.748 --> 00:46:29.349
Private equity made 10 X the money or whatever.

00:46:29.739 --> 00:46:33.009
Uh, so it was, it was a, it was a buy and flip kind of a world.

00:46:33.728 --> 00:46:33.929
Yeah,

00:46:33.958 --> 00:46:34.978
I'm oversimplifying it.

00:46:34.989 --> 00:46:35.369
Yeah.

00:46:35.509 --> 00:46:44.099
But, um, But a lot of wells were drilled in that time frame just to meet that, you know, that, that threshold of getting to a point where you could flip.

00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:46.518
And a lot of those wells should have never been drilled.

00:46:46.829 --> 00:46:48.498
They drilled wells too close together.

00:46:48.958 --> 00:46:50.369
They drilled wells too fast.

00:46:50.378 --> 00:46:52.028
They drilled wells trying goofy things.

00:46:52.208 --> 00:47:00.329
completion techniques, didn't get their best wells, but as long as that machine was churning and you didn't do too many look backs, like, hey, how we doing over here, guys.

00:47:00.329 --> 00:47:05.588
Oh, don't pay attention to that our best well is coming up, you know, just, just ignore that carnage back here.

00:47:05.978 --> 00:47:19.568
Uh, And I had to do reserves on that and, and all of my associates did and, and, and presented some challenges and we were wrong and, and a lot of cases because some of that was moving so fast and you're trying to read the data and you're trying and to get the.

00:47:19.938 --> 00:47:20.259
Right.

00:47:21.289 --> 00:47:22.338
And do you have really good data?

00:47:22.338 --> 00:47:27.429
Like each well, how many gallons from each thing or is it more pools and collections or how's that?

00:47:27.429 --> 00:47:29.559
Is that hard to get that information?

00:47:29.659 --> 00:47:29.829
Yeah.

00:47:29.829 --> 00:47:45.458
For the most part, we can get by well production data, oil and gas production data, and that comes in barrels, uh, which is 42 gallons, you know, standard us barrel is 42 gallons and a natural gas isn't typically reported in, uh, millions of cubic feet or MCFs.

00:47:46.018 --> 00:47:48.239
And, um, the.

00:47:48.574 --> 00:47:56.173
Uh, the data either comes through a state agency, you know, the state, you have to report, uh, your oil and gas production to the state on a monthly basis.

00:47:56.824 --> 00:47:58.713
That, that is accumulated in the database.

00:47:59.184 --> 00:48:00.434
And you can go get it there.

00:48:00.574 --> 00:48:01.793
Sometimes you have to pay a little bit.

00:48:01.804 --> 00:48:06.063
Sometimes it's free, but there's also subscription services that we use.

00:48:06.065 --> 00:48:14.384
Uh, and, uh, there's a bunch out there now, uh, now that we're in a digital age, those there's companies that have been founded purely on delivering this production data to you.

00:48:15.134 --> 00:48:20.934
And so that data is typically available, uh, and it's on a monthly basis, but often.

00:48:21.954 --> 00:48:26.443
The company you're working with might be the operator and they have daily production.

00:48:26.724 --> 00:48:27.514
They even better data.

00:48:27.543 --> 00:48:33.474
Cause every day there's somebody in the field that's tallying, okay, this welded 140 barrels of oil and did this on gas.

00:48:33.818 --> 00:48:37.438
And it goes on a ledger and it works its way into the computer and then we can get it.

00:48:37.829 --> 00:48:44.818
That's even better data, because when you can see what the well's doing on a daily basis, it can tell you more things than on a monthly basis when you roll all that up.

00:48:44.829 --> 00:48:51.608
Because, you know, a well could stop producing for seven days during the month, and you look at that monthly number and you're like, why is that so low?

00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:52.639
I'm worried.

00:48:53.148 --> 00:49:01.789
And then, you know, if you see the daily ledger, you'll see, oh, they shut the well in because there was a grass fire nearby and they had to, you know, there's precaution.

00:49:01.929 --> 00:49:02.119
Yeah.

00:49:02.478 --> 00:49:05.248
And so I don't want to penalize them on reserves.

00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:05.818
Yeah.

00:49:05.858 --> 00:49:07.259
They actually have more left technically.

00:49:07.259 --> 00:49:07.458
Yeah.

00:49:07.528 --> 00:49:07.688
Yeah.

00:49:07.688 --> 00:49:08.699
They have more left technically.

00:49:09.248 --> 00:49:17.688
And so there, or there's, you know, you know, producing oil and gas is very complex, especially if you've, you know, you see the horse heads that are out there going up and down in the field.

00:49:17.688 --> 00:49:17.739
Sure.

00:49:17.739 --> 00:49:18.978
Grasshoppers is what we call them.

00:49:18.978 --> 00:49:19.259
But yeah.

00:49:19.289 --> 00:49:19.829
What do you call them?

00:49:19.858 --> 00:49:20.588
Grasshoppers.

00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:21.119
Grasshoppers.

00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:21.489
Yep.

00:49:21.929 --> 00:49:23.639
But you know, that's basically just a pump.

00:49:23.648 --> 00:49:26.579
That's just pulling, you know, pushing oil and gas to surface.

00:49:26.579 --> 00:49:26.789
Yeah.

00:49:27.349 --> 00:49:29.599
And, but, but that's all mechanical.

00:49:29.958 --> 00:49:32.539
You know, metal and that breaks just like, just like pistons

00:49:32.829 --> 00:49:33.438
break in a car.

00:49:33.469 --> 00:49:34.768
You got to grease the bearings and all that.

00:49:34.858 --> 00:49:35.228
Yeah.

00:49:35.298 --> 00:49:44.009
And it's a lot of, I mean, it's a lot of pipe in the well, a lot of metal pipe in that well, and to, to fix a one hole in the tubing, you might have to go down.

00:49:44.289 --> 00:49:45.659
You know, 400.

00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:48.248
Sections of pipe to get to that.

00:49:48.248 --> 00:49:49.599
So you gotta pull all that outta the well.

00:49:49.659 --> 00:49:50.259
Oh wow.

00:49:50.289 --> 00:49:51.878
Fix it, put it all back in.

00:49:51.878 --> 00:49:52.989
And that can take days.

00:49:52.989 --> 00:49:58.119
And so mechanical things happen to wells and that can impact the monthly production data.

00:49:58.148 --> 00:49:58.239
Sure.

00:49:58.239 --> 00:49:59.469
So in the daily you can see that better.

00:49:59.469 --> 00:50:02.994
So those sleeves, like wear out and stuff, those, like you were talking about?

00:50:02.994 --> 00:50:03.114
Well,

00:50:03.114 --> 00:50:03.833
the ca the casing.

00:50:03.893 --> 00:50:09.398
The casing that, that, that creates the well wellbore that holds the earth back, that typically doesn't wear out.

00:50:09.403 --> 00:50:09.793
Oh, okay.

00:50:09.793 --> 00:50:11.349
But in, you know, in 34 50 and then there's a

00:50:11.349 --> 00:50:14.079
pipe inside of that casing and that has got a pump.

00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:15.958
thing going up and down and whatever

00:50:15.958 --> 00:50:16.248
else.

00:50:16.278 --> 00:50:32.668
We call that tubing inside the, inside the casings, the casing is really big tubing, but inside that is a smaller string of tubing and it's smaller diameter because, um, the reservoir might have enough pressure to push that oil out and that's one of the measurements you'll do.

00:50:32.668 --> 00:50:34.668
It's like, what's the best way to produce this?

00:50:34.668 --> 00:50:38.518
Well, and you'll, you'll, you'll design the diameter of that tubing based on.

00:50:38.994 --> 00:50:46.414
Uh, how are you producing the well, but often you'll have a ride that goes through that tubing that goes up and down on that grasshopper or horse head.

00:50:46.704 --> 00:50:53.833
And that is, it's a pump down there and it's just, it's just basically a pump that's pulling the, uh, yeah, it's old school, but that stuff breaks down.

00:50:53.844 --> 00:50:54.503
And so.

00:50:55.159 --> 00:50:57.679
operating wells in that environment.

00:50:57.679 --> 00:50:59.588
And then here in Colorado, you have tough weather.

00:50:59.588 --> 00:51:00.208
Oh my goodness.

00:51:00.208 --> 00:51:03.958
What you saw in Williston, uh, the winters there are brutal.

00:51:05.259 --> 00:51:12.068
Those, those roughnecks that work on those rigs and up in the Derrick or on the, on the rig floor in the middle of winter, my goodness.

00:51:13.139 --> 00:51:13.688
No, thank you,

00:51:13.688 --> 00:51:14.018
sir.

00:51:14.329 --> 00:51:15.128
They are earning their money.

00:51:15.168 --> 00:51:19.608
They get paid really well and they spend it really fast, but it's, it's tough.

00:51:19.759 --> 00:51:22.458
It's impressed that those are tough people to do that work.

00:51:22.579 --> 00:51:26.179
So how, uh, how long have you been the president of CGA?

00:51:27.409 --> 00:51:29.088
Uh, 2017, so.

00:51:29.088 --> 00:51:29.329
Okay.

00:51:29.778 --> 00:51:30.679
Uh, almost, yeah.

00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:31.128
Seven years now.

00:51:31.128 --> 00:51:31.699
Seven years-ish.

00:51:31.969 --> 00:51:32.179
Mm-Hmm.

00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:36.858
Um, did you have, uh, like imaginations of leadership before?

00:51:36.858 --> 00:51:40.309
Did you come through like an executive vice president role or something like that?

00:51:40.309 --> 00:51:42.619
Or how is, how did that transition occur?

00:51:42.739 --> 00:51:43.878
Straw, straw vote.

00:51:43.969 --> 00:51:48.148
Uh, everybody step back when they ask for volunteers to step forward.

00:51:49.159 --> 00:51:50.559
Uh, yeah, good question.

00:51:50.568 --> 00:51:52.978
There's a lot of history to the firm and my part of it.

00:51:53.048 --> 00:52:06.298
Um, in the end, you know, the partners voted me in and, um, and, you know, I'll, I'll be the first to say Zane Meekins could have easily have been president, uh, versus me, you know, he and I, he was there a little before me.

00:52:06.693 --> 00:52:16.614
And, uh, and, and, you know, again, he's one of the smartest people I know, but they voted me in and, and I don't know all the reasons, but, um, you know, we have three different offices.

00:52:16.653 --> 00:52:18.994
Uh, one headquarters is in Fort Worth.

00:52:19.213 --> 00:52:22.454
Uh, I'm in Austin, Texas, and then we have a Houston office.

00:52:23.014 --> 00:52:28.454
And, um, you know, I try to do a good job about interacting with all three offices and making my presence known.

00:52:28.454 --> 00:52:30.954
And, uh, and so maybe that helped me.

00:52:30.974 --> 00:52:31.793
I don't know.

00:52:31.893 --> 00:52:42.094
But, um, Either way, uh, if, if I was executive vice president, Zane was president, nothing would change in that we all are self sufficient at the firm.

00:52:42.653 --> 00:52:44.853
I'll do the same thing no matter what my title is.

00:52:45.094 --> 00:52:47.184
Like I said, if you want a certain title, you can have it.

00:52:47.653 --> 00:52:51.043
Uh, just as long as you get your stuff done, you can be, you can call yourself whatever you want.

00:52:52.063 --> 00:52:55.313
We're not going to pay you differently, but we'll get you a business card if you want it.

00:52:55.364 --> 00:53:00.324
How much of your time do you spend doing presidenty kind of things versus.

00:53:02.123 --> 00:53:04.414
and you know, just general client relations and stuff.

00:53:04.454 --> 00:53:06.744
And I'm sure there's a fuzzy line between there, right?

00:53:07.643 --> 00:53:10.264
Yeah, I do a lot less engineering than I used to.

00:53:10.333 --> 00:53:15.673
Uh, but more, mine's more in on the engineering side, it's more supervisory.

00:53:16.284 --> 00:53:20.704
Uh, I will look through the work that an engineer has done or geologist and, and.

00:53:21.954 --> 00:53:25.003
Either help guide them, make some changes, uh, point out issues,

00:53:25.094 --> 00:53:26.074
smell, test it,

00:53:26.164 --> 00:53:27.074
do some smell tests.

00:53:27.344 --> 00:53:32.873
Um, but, uh, every now and then I'll do a little bit more engineering than, than that, but not anymore.

00:53:32.873 --> 00:53:42.994
I, I, you know, I, I need to do, and we can talk about this in a little bit, but I need to do way more marketing and I need to, you know, build more relationships and I need just more networking.

00:53:43.784 --> 00:53:50.393
Um, and I'm trying, but you know, that plus, you know, the, just the day to duties that I have as far as.

00:53:50.943 --> 00:53:56.143
You know, certifying and looking at every reserve report that, that comes through Houston office or Austin office.

00:53:56.574 --> 00:53:58.284
Zane handles most of the stuff in Fort Worth.

00:53:59.983 --> 00:54:05.103
You know, I wanted to go across my desk and I want to look at it because my name's on it and like you mentioned liability earlier.

00:54:05.153 --> 00:54:05.384
Yeah.

00:54:05.543 --> 00:54:08.813
I don't want anything going out that has my name on it that I have not personally witnessed.

00:54:08.824 --> 00:54:09.634
If somebody's gonna get

00:54:09.634 --> 00:54:11.264
their butt in trouble, it would be you.

00:54:11.353 --> 00:54:11.543
Right.

00:54:11.673 --> 00:54:12.273
Probably.

00:54:12.393 --> 00:54:12.733
Right.

00:54:12.784 --> 00:54:13.184
Yeah.

00:54:14.213 --> 00:54:17.253
So, So, yeah, it's a lot more.

00:54:17.608 --> 00:54:20.528
Business development is pretty much what I do most of the time now.

00:54:20.798 --> 00:54:24.028
Is that because, I mean, you said, you know, I should really do a lot more marketing.

00:54:24.398 --> 00:54:28.389
It's just cause you guys could be a little busier just in general, or do you want to grow the team?

00:54:28.389 --> 00:54:29.938
Do you want to be a 50 person firm?

00:54:30.168 --> 00:54:32.048
Um, yeah.

00:54:32.219 --> 00:54:32.458
Yeah.

00:54:32.969 --> 00:54:33.858
Um, good question.

00:54:33.898 --> 00:54:38.688
Um, I like our size right now around 35, but I would be fine at 45.

00:54:38.688 --> 00:54:39.559
I'd be fine at 30.

00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:47.594
Uh, but I wanted, if we're going to go to 45 or 50, I want it to be the right, 50, but to, to add that kind of staff.

00:54:47.594 --> 00:54:50.903
I mean, you, you've got a staff here, you know, to keep them busy.

00:54:51.023 --> 00:54:53.423
That's a, I mean, it's a lot of new customers add 10 engineers.

00:54:53.514 --> 00:54:53.574
Yeah.

00:54:53.579 --> 00:54:55.673
That's a lot of new customers, a lot of new projects.

00:54:56.083 --> 00:54:59.143
And so that means there needs to be a lot more business development.

00:54:59.143 --> 00:55:02.403
So, you know, the people and the projects kind of go hand in hand.

00:55:02.614 --> 00:55:08.233
Uh, I don't wanna be overstaffed because it's, you know, just everybody's happier, everybody not

00:55:08.233 --> 00:55:08.534
that.

00:55:08.534 --> 00:55:08.773
Yep.

00:55:09.043 --> 00:55:09.344
Yeah.

00:55:09.994 --> 00:55:10.264
So.

00:55:10.614 --> 00:55:12.074
We try to stay very steady.

00:55:12.393 --> 00:55:21.153
The problem we face though, and you know, I've got some engineers that are ready to jump off a roof right now because December, January, February, March just kills them.

00:55:21.574 --> 00:55:23.893
Uh, because they, they work so many hours.

00:55:24.963 --> 00:55:25.364
Yes.

00:55:25.364 --> 00:55:31.664
Yeah, there's so many reports that have to go out because our clients have deadlines.

00:55:31.664 --> 00:55:32.983
They have to report to the feds.

00:55:32.985 --> 00:55:34.384
They have banks.

00:55:34.384 --> 00:55:35.429
They have, uh, Things like that.

00:55:35.429 --> 00:55:37.398
And so we've got to hit those deadlines.

00:55:37.398 --> 00:55:42.509
And so that means nights and weekends and juggling multiple, multiple projects.

00:55:42.559 --> 00:55:44.768
And, and a lot of those projects are very complex.

00:55:44.778 --> 00:55:48.389
So, uh, I have some people that are, that are ready for a break.

00:55:48.869 --> 00:55:54.548
And, but what typically happens is we start to slow down in April, May, June, and summer's kind of slow.

00:55:54.550 --> 00:55:54.844
So.

00:55:55.103 --> 00:55:56.273
People can catch their breaths.

00:55:56.873 --> 00:55:58.784
Then it starts to ramp back up later in the year.

00:55:58.903 --> 00:56:05.693
What I'm trying to work on is, is making those the middle part of the year, that, that trough, I want to raise that up a little bit.

00:56:06.373 --> 00:56:10.943
And usually that trough is filled with deal flow, oil and gas transactions.

00:56:11.284 --> 00:56:15.463
And unfortunately, since COVID hit and we've had.

00:56:15.773 --> 00:56:27.233
You know, mass bankruptcies, you know, companies being smashed into other companies and all the big consolidation that, you know, has been in the press lately, uh, it's reduced the number of deals that are out there.

00:56:27.713 --> 00:56:40.849
Uh, maybe not on a value basis because some of these, you know, mega 10, 20 billion deals make the value look the same in a year, but the transaction number is about 10 percent of what it was seven years ago.

00:56:41.898 --> 00:56:44.398
So that deal flow is not there like it used to be.

00:56:44.739 --> 00:56:48.469
And so our summer lulls have been more of a lull than I want.

00:56:49.099 --> 00:56:58.173
And so to your point, I, I, Um, and my point as well, I need to do more business development and bring that, the project flow up and keep them busy then.

00:56:58.833 --> 00:57:01.414
Um, the other option is maybe do we staff up?

00:57:01.603 --> 00:57:02.123
That's what I was going to

00:57:02.224 --> 00:57:02.434
say.

00:57:02.434 --> 00:57:08.753
Could you do a seasonal, but is there anybody smart enough that's available for that January through March season?

00:57:08.813 --> 00:57:20.503
There are there, you know, there's a lot of retirees in oil and gas that maybe, you know, Maybe their firm got bought out or, or it was an acquisition and he got a nice payday and he said, this is my time.

00:57:20.503 --> 00:57:21.364
I'm just going to take a break.

00:57:21.364 --> 00:57:21.534
Right.

00:57:21.534 --> 00:57:24.253
But those, those people might want to work 20, 40 hours a week.

00:57:24.324 --> 00:57:24.643
25

00:57:24.653 --> 00:57:27.333
grand to work for three months, you know, in season.

00:57:27.463 --> 00:57:28.784
Exactly, exactly.

00:57:28.784 --> 00:57:33.324
So we might explore that a little bit more and, you know, I want my partners to be a part of that decision.

00:57:33.333 --> 00:57:39.844
Cause, um, you know, what makes us profitable is that we kind of suck it up during those four months, right?

00:57:39.884 --> 00:57:40.463
Right, right, right.

00:57:40.494 --> 00:57:43.643
And then we take it easy for, you know, a little bit easier.

00:57:44.244 --> 00:57:45.063
Uh, so

00:57:45.634 --> 00:57:49.704
yeah, does that, does it offset the profitability function, you know, whatever.

00:57:49.744 --> 00:57:50.103
Yeah.

00:57:50.103 --> 00:57:59.994
So it's, it's, it's, and it's tough to manage in this industry because the oil and gas prices are so extreme at times, like, like you mentioned during COVID negative 37 for one day.

00:58:00.494 --> 00:58:00.793
Right.

00:58:01.173 --> 00:58:03.393
Uh, and it's just, uh, so.

00:58:04.393 --> 00:58:08.494
It's kind of hard to know which direction to push things at all times.

00:58:09.204 --> 00:58:15.693
So to me, slow and steady has worked because the industry does goes up and it goes down.

00:58:16.253 --> 00:58:21.554
And even though it goes up and even though it goes down, our customers still have to report earnings.

00:58:21.554 --> 00:58:22.784
They still have to file.

00:58:23.393 --> 00:58:26.003
And so we, we stay steady through that.

00:58:26.003 --> 00:58:30.373
And if the industry is booming, We might staff up a little bit and, and ride that.

00:58:30.373 --> 00:58:36.463
But if it's, if it's down, we're just going to hold steady right there, you know, so it's a philosophy, right?

00:58:36.463 --> 00:58:37.034
It's one of the reasons

00:58:37.324 --> 00:58:42.103
to try to get good at marketing is so you can actually change the amount of revenues coming in the pipeline.

00:58:42.373 --> 00:58:42.684
Yes.

00:58:42.773 --> 00:58:45.753
Um, so that you can, you know, see, Oh, we got a little hole coming.

00:58:45.784 --> 00:58:50.253
Let's click up the ad rate or whatever, but I've never really found it to be that successful.

00:58:50.253 --> 00:58:50.923
Sounds like you haven't.

00:58:51.628 --> 00:58:52.728
Either necessarily.

00:58:52.929 --> 00:58:53.518
Yeah.

00:58:54.068 --> 00:58:57.079
You know, we don't sell widgets, you know, like we don't sell automobiles.

00:58:57.809 --> 00:59:00.389
And so our product is kind of a niche product.

00:59:00.389 --> 00:59:04.929
And so putting those kinds of ads just don't necessarily work or drive, drive revenues.

00:59:05.833 --> 00:59:06.853
Uh, you know, even if it

00:59:06.853 --> 00:59:10.603
was just a lawyer, need a divorce lawyer, you know, you could have that pop up on something.

00:59:10.733 --> 00:59:12.813
As a matter of fact, I am getting pretty sick of my wife.

00:59:12.864 --> 00:59:12.943
Yeah.

00:59:13.273 --> 00:59:13.483
Yeah.

00:59:14.474 --> 00:59:14.813
Yeah.

00:59:14.844 --> 00:59:15.793
Uh, yeah.

00:59:15.793 --> 00:59:17.483
But you know, different thing for you.

00:59:17.603 --> 00:59:17.833
Yeah.

00:59:17.884 --> 00:59:18.804
It is too complex.

00:59:19.023 --> 00:59:19.393
Yeah.

00:59:19.963 --> 00:59:36.583
But you know, you pointed out earlier, you know, maybe for you and for me, I think relationships and you know, being face to face, uh, if somebody, somebody knows your face and has heard you talk before, or maybe through LinkedIn or through your podcast or whatever, that changes the game for you versus them.

00:59:37.074 --> 00:59:40.893
On a plane and flipping through an ad and seeing a little tiny ad on whatever.

00:59:40.903 --> 00:59:41.574
Oh, I should call that guy.

00:59:41.643 --> 00:59:42.503
Yeah, yeah.

00:59:43.824 --> 00:59:47.213
Um, what else would you have folks know about the oil industry?

00:59:47.213 --> 00:59:47.833
Your specific perspective?

00:59:48.159 --> 00:59:50.329
Business operation, um.

00:59:51.539 --> 00:59:54.489
Well, uh, like I said, we're in a niche part of the industry.

00:59:54.518 --> 00:59:56.628
Uh, you know, oil and gas industry is vast.

00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:57.759
I mean, there's people that drill.

00:59:57.759 --> 00:59:58.858
There's people that produce.

00:59:58.878 --> 01:00:00.268
There's people that refine.

01:00:00.838 --> 01:00:07.208
Uh, there's landmen who, who deal on the surface and deal with leases and, and work with farmers and communities and all that.

01:00:07.208 --> 01:00:09.528
And there's, there's financial advisors and all that.

01:00:09.528 --> 01:00:10.099
Yeah, some are bigger

01:00:10.099 --> 01:00:10.369
than most people.

01:00:10.369 --> 01:00:10.958
people realize.

01:00:11.018 --> 01:00:12.159
It's, it's huge.

01:00:12.168 --> 01:00:14.179
And, and then the pipelines that go across the U.

01:00:14.179 --> 01:00:14.418
S.

01:00:14.418 --> 01:00:19.048
and the trucks and the trains that carry those hydrocarbons to get refined and all, it's a big industry.

01:00:19.748 --> 01:00:26.599
And we're in this tiny little space where, uh, you know, oil and gas companies need to have their assets valued.

01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:37.818
And sometimes they're required to have them valued by a third party independent company that's unbiased, ethical, has, you know, does all the things right, follows standards, and, and that would be us.

01:00:38.373 --> 01:00:42.034
And, and, and we do that work and hand it off to who?

01:00:42.094 --> 01:00:42.753
The audience.

01:00:42.753 --> 01:00:45.123
It might be a banker, a financial, you know, person.

01:00:45.123 --> 01:00:46.594
Could be accountants.

01:00:46.684 --> 01:00:46.954
Yeah.

01:00:46.983 --> 01:00:48.304
Private equity firm, whatever.

01:00:48.364 --> 01:00:48.574
Yeah.

01:00:48.963 --> 01:00:57.664
But that company might go use that for financing to help them go drill more wells or to help them repair some wells or to help them, you know, grow the company in some way.

01:00:58.293 --> 01:01:04.793
And, uh, so that's kind of our niche is valuing wells and, uh, and we're really good at it.

01:01:05.083 --> 01:01:07.813
And, uh, you know, I've got a team who's been doing it for quite a long time.

01:01:07.844 --> 01:01:12.623
Our average, I think our average, um, experience level is 15 years, you know?

01:01:12.693 --> 01:01:14.423
So no 17, excuse me.

01:01:14.423 --> 01:01:16.063
So that's, that's pretty dang good.

01:01:16.063 --> 01:01:22.773
We've got some four year experience and we've got one who's, uh, just, just had 50 years at the firm, shockingly.

01:01:22.773 --> 01:01:24.164
Yeah, no, yeah.

01:01:24.164 --> 01:01:26.903
He's a data analyst, uh, Tom Aardman, great guy.

01:01:27.503 --> 01:01:33.188
Um, So, so your question was about, um, Yeah, just what people

01:01:33.188 --> 01:01:33.608
should know.

01:01:33.608 --> 01:01:37.918
I mean, you're, you're firm, but it's, I guess, what's the future of the industry look like to you?

01:01:38.068 --> 01:01:42.998
Are we, uh, really depends a lot on the election in the fall, perhaps, at least for the near term.

01:01:44.079 --> 01:01:46.768
Will it be drill baby drill again if Trump is back in?

01:01:48.045 --> 01:01:49.355
Yeah, that's a good question.

01:01:49.364 --> 01:01:52.885
Um, I do think some things change, of course, uh, if you

01:01:52.885 --> 01:01:55.065
know, if legislation Turn the Keystone back on?

01:01:55.565 --> 01:01:56.385
Yeah, if the

01:01:56.385 --> 01:02:09.375
Keystone pipeline gets turned back on or, you know, some of the regulatory issues that might inhibit the LNG plants from being developed faster so we can serve those markets in Europe because Europe's been lucky the last couple of years.

01:02:09.695 --> 01:02:15.125
They didn't have harsh winters, but as soon as they have harsh winters, there's going to be people that die if they can't stay warm.

01:02:15.655 --> 01:02:22.675
And that LNG That natural gas that was liquefied that they can, uh, they can use over there.

01:02:22.704 --> 01:02:24.414
It, it will, it'll save a lot of lives.

01:02:24.425 --> 01:02:27.195
So, uh, so where's the industry going?

01:02:27.215 --> 01:02:32.934
Uh, I don't think we're going anywhere despite the rhetoric, despite what anyone hears through the media.

01:02:33.545 --> 01:02:34.894
And I don't care your source of the media.

01:02:34.905 --> 01:02:38.795
I don't care if you're a Fox news person or a CNN or MSNBC or.

01:02:39.744 --> 01:02:58.514
Twitter or X, uh, versus, you know, whatever, wherever you get your information, uh, I encourage everyone to just, you know, for, for a little bit, be a, try to just pretend to be a scientist, pretend to be a detective and do a little research and outside of your normal sphere of information.

01:02:58.994 --> 01:03:05.264
Because believe it or not, that pipeline of information you're getting may not be the full picture.

01:03:05.275 --> 01:03:06.125
It's one sided.

01:03:06.585 --> 01:03:11.025
And that's the way, that's the way social media and algorithms work as far as delivering you content that.

01:03:11.375 --> 01:03:31.708
You may want to see, and you lean towards, or they push you towards, and a lot of people don't even realize that's going on, uh, and, you know, I've seen it, I mean, it's impacted my daughters, I have three daughters, and, you know, I was a parent that had to deal with, you know, when do they get a phone, and can they have data on that phone, and how do you protect them from seeing things they shouldn't see?

01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:34.074
And you work, you work so hard at it.

01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:36.300
But boy, those, those companies are good at ge.

01:03:36.389 --> 01:03:39.809
You know, fi f the kids are smart'cause they can figure out how, how to get around it.

01:03:39.900 --> 01:03:41.820
Dad, why do you work for the devil?

01:03:41.820 --> 01:03:42.000
Yeah.

01:03:44.420 --> 01:03:44.659
Yeah.

01:03:44.659 --> 01:03:46.489
I, I hope I've got'em over that hurdle.

01:03:46.820 --> 01:03:47.869
Um, yeah.

01:03:48.889 --> 01:03:49.190
But, but

01:03:49.195 --> 01:03:51.170
it's not going anywhere for a, a real long time.

01:03:51.170 --> 01:03:51.380
It's going

01:03:51.380 --> 01:03:51.559
anywhere.

01:03:51.619 --> 01:03:57.550
No, and it can't, uh, really, because again, hospitals, jets, automobiles.

01:03:58.059 --> 01:03:59.769
roads, uh, just everything.

01:03:59.769 --> 01:04:00.349
Fertilizer.

01:04:00.530 --> 01:04:01.309
Fertilizer.

01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:16.000
I mean, we would not be able to feed the world without hydrocarbons because not only does it have to go into fertilizer, you need natural gas, you know, to, to help, you know, create nitrates to get to the fertilizer, but the machinery everywhere you go, there's John Deere tractors, right?

01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:17.400
Those are, those are diesel.

01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:20.570
And, and they're all over the world, or, or Caterpillar equipment.

01:04:20.579 --> 01:04:20.849
How do the

01:04:20.849 --> 01:04:21.960
electric tractors work?

01:04:23.019 --> 01:04:23.599
You tell me.

01:04:23.610 --> 01:04:25.539
You, you said, you said your dad's a farmer,

01:04:25.539 --> 01:04:25.800
so.

01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:26.519
I haven't seen one yet.

01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:26.869
I haven't seen one yet.

01:04:26.869 --> 01:04:27.170
Okay.

01:04:27.460 --> 01:04:29.269
Well, I mean, there are, there are electric.

01:04:29.469 --> 01:04:29.550
it

01:04:29.679 --> 01:04:36.369
actually wouldn't work bad in a tractor, like if it's, because it's going to have enough power, actually weight is a good thing.

01:04:36.739 --> 01:04:36.929
Yep.

01:04:36.949 --> 01:04:40.099
Because then the wheels don't spin and stuff when you're pulling tillage equipment and stuff.

01:04:40.760 --> 01:04:41.250
That's true.

01:04:41.320 --> 01:04:45.570
Uh, it does weigh quite a bit more, but that also can be a problem when it's, you know, wet, you know, foggy.

01:04:45.570 --> 01:04:46.050
Right, right, right.

01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:46.739
But, uh,

01:04:47.690 --> 01:04:49.190
I know, not your expertise.

01:04:49.550 --> 01:04:54.610
It's not, but, but I do know, let's, let's take it off the, off the farm and onto the road.

01:04:55.090 --> 01:04:56.659
Let's talk about like 18 wheelers.

01:04:56.730 --> 01:04:57.230
Oh, yeah.

01:04:57.250 --> 01:05:02.608
What, if you electrify an 18 wheeler versus a diesel, um, 18 wheeler hauling across the country.

01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:07.719
The country, let's say 18 wheeler is so much heavier when it's electric.

01:05:07.750 --> 01:05:16.010
And so therefore it has to carry a lot smaller load and then it has to stop and recharge for some amount of time on multiple points along the way.

01:05:16.400 --> 01:05:18.670
And so it would not only, well, even when it's

01:05:18.679 --> 01:05:20.539
empty, it's way heavier too.

01:05:21.190 --> 01:05:21.599
Exactly.

01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:22.980
So it's that much more damaging then.

01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:24.570
So it's carrying 20, 000 pounds less.

01:05:24.889 --> 01:05:30.929
Yeah, it's carrying less, so therefore you have to have more on the road, and, and that could potentially, you know, damage more roads.

01:05:31.219 --> 01:05:34.110
It's gonna, it's, it's gonna create congestion, it's, you know.

01:05:34.130 --> 01:05:34.269
It

01:05:34.269 --> 01:05:34.659
does.

01:05:34.690 --> 01:05:37.889
So, uh, similar thing on a farm.

01:05:37.900 --> 01:05:38.489
I just don't like

01:05:38.489 --> 01:05:39.510
things being mandated.

01:05:40.469 --> 01:05:42.800
You know, a choice is almost always better.

01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:44.510
The market will usually find a better way.

01:05:45.550 --> 01:05:46.215
True, true.

01:05:46.215 --> 01:05:49.159
But, you know, let me play devil's advocate here.

01:05:49.539 --> 01:05:54.130
If you're a climate alarmist, then you're like, well, Kurt, don't you care about the climate?

01:05:54.425 --> 01:05:54.835
Yeah.

01:05:54.835 --> 01:05:55.204
Oh, yeah.

01:05:56.164 --> 01:05:56.375
I do.

01:05:56.385 --> 01:05:59.835
Well, then you're letting all these diesel powered vehicles pollute the environment, Kurt.

01:05:59.925 --> 01:06:04.804
Well, but actually, if we're going to have more people in the world, we're going to need more carbon dioxide.

01:06:05.349 --> 01:06:08.650
to create enough food because plants eat carbon dioxide.

01:06:08.659 --> 01:06:09.550
No, no, no.

01:06:09.590 --> 01:06:11.320
Carbon dioxide is a pollutant.

01:06:11.320 --> 01:06:11.449
It's

01:06:11.559 --> 01:06:12.349
killing people.

01:06:12.380 --> 01:06:12.429
Come on.

01:06:12.900 --> 01:06:18.269
No, we just need to melt, melt the ice caps to get fresh water to water the deserts of Africa with.

01:06:18.900 --> 01:06:21.400
Um, and then it'll be paradise.

01:06:21.809 --> 01:06:22.309
Okay.

01:06:23.239 --> 01:06:23.719
We're getting off topic.

01:06:23.820 --> 01:06:25.000
I need to take a short break.

01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:30.429
Um, and uh, we'll reset with, uh, with little Todd back in second grade.

01:06:31.789 --> 01:06:32.230
Okay.

01:06:32.260 --> 01:06:32.739
Let's do it.

01:07:16.331 --> 01:07:17.231
And we are back.

01:07:17.460 --> 01:07:18.090
Thanks for that.

01:07:18.141 --> 01:07:20.951
I was squirming the last couple of minutes of the conversation.

01:07:21.780 --> 01:07:28.190
So, so you are officially the farthest away guest that we've had in the Loco experience as far as your primary home.

01:07:30.030 --> 01:07:32.121
Well, glad I could be the one furthest away.

01:07:32.190 --> 01:07:33.670
So you're up in Fort Collins here.

01:07:33.670 --> 01:07:36.400
I just learned that you had bought a house up here as well.

01:07:36.440 --> 01:07:40.351
And, uh, and you're up here because your daughter is playing soccer at CSU.

01:07:41.030 --> 01:07:42.670
Yeah, we recently bought a place.

01:07:42.701 --> 01:07:46.710
Uh, because of that, my daughter, uh, is a goalkeeper at, at Colorado State.

01:07:46.710 --> 01:07:47.451
She's a freshman.

01:07:48.161 --> 01:07:50.641
And in fact, she starts, uh, the game tomorrow.

01:07:50.701 --> 01:07:52.240
Uh, the spring season's starting up.

01:07:52.331 --> 01:07:52.400
Okay.

01:07:53.201 --> 01:07:55.340
She's excited and we're looking forward to watching her.

01:07:55.351 --> 01:07:59.380
And That's why we, we visited a few times.

01:07:59.380 --> 01:08:03.170
We had some campus visits and, uh, like, wow, like Fort Collins.

01:08:03.210 --> 01:08:03.471
Yeah.

01:08:03.771 --> 01:08:08.231
Uh, it's not the first place from Texas that I would think of where we want to have a place.

01:08:08.231 --> 01:08:10.231
You think of the mountain cabins and snow and all that.

01:08:10.231 --> 01:08:10.670
Right, right.

01:08:10.820 --> 01:08:11.440
Lake city.

01:08:11.780 --> 01:08:11.981
Yeah.

01:08:12.010 --> 01:08:12.210
Right.

01:08:12.411 --> 01:08:14.090
Everybody from Texas lives in Lake city.

01:08:14.121 --> 01:08:14.440
Yeah.

01:08:15.541 --> 01:08:33.451
But, uh, when you start, but we wanted a place to watch, um, Libby play soccer and then also, Uh, once you start diving into homeownership in the mountains, uh, you know, they don't talk about all the issues that come with, you know, frozen, frozen pipes and floods and all that and dealing with that.

01:08:33.451 --> 01:08:35.440
So, uh, we love it here.

01:08:35.440 --> 01:08:40.161
It's a great landing spot to, to go other places, but man, Fort Collins is just fantastic.

01:08:40.171 --> 01:08:40.951
Uh, yeah.

01:08:40.990 --> 01:08:45.421
Fell in love with the place already and, and through people like you, I'm hoping to learn a lot more.

01:08:45.591 --> 01:08:58.065
Well, it's a, you know, it's a, it's a great blessing for, um, You know, our community that people like you and your family, you know, choose to make it at least for, for now, a partial year home kind of back and forth a little bit.

01:08:58.065 --> 01:09:09.036
I suspect in the future you'll be, you know, collecting checks from your GS or whatever, CGA stock or whatever, spending it in our restaurants up here in Fort Collins, right?

01:09:09.275 --> 01:09:11.055
We, we do spend money in Fort Collins.

01:09:11.055 --> 01:09:12.115
That's for, that's for sure.

01:09:12.615 --> 01:09:15.985
Uh, and hope to be spending more, but you never know.

01:09:15.985 --> 01:09:18.136
I mean, uh, I come up here quite a bit and.

01:09:18.751 --> 01:09:24.140
I have engineers all the time say, Hey, if you ever want to open an office up in Colorado, I'll put up my hand.

01:09:24.171 --> 01:09:24.411
There you

01:09:24.411 --> 01:09:24.680
go.

01:09:24.761 --> 01:09:26.560
So it'd be easy to get people to come up here.

01:09:26.560 --> 01:09:27.520
That's, that's for sure.

01:09:27.661 --> 01:09:28.341
Yeah, for sure.

01:09:28.640 --> 01:09:30.841
So, um, what's that lifestyle look like for you?

01:09:30.841 --> 01:09:36.990
Do you guys come up for a couple of weeks at a time and just kind of work remotely and visit the Your daughter, uh, what's her name?

01:09:37.230 --> 01:09:37.610
Libby.

01:09:37.640 --> 01:09:38.030
Libby.

01:09:38.631 --> 01:09:39.520
Yeah, Libby Brooker.

01:09:39.530 --> 01:09:53.051
And, uh, yeah, uh, I'm working, like, this morning, it could have been the busiest morning I can recall, uh, that I've had in, in weeks, uh, just, you know, video call after video call just working on some projects, but, but yeah, I usually work, uh, while I'm up here.

01:09:53.051 --> 01:09:58.780
I've got an office in the house and, uh, but my wife and I, we try to sneak away when we can and go hiking.

01:09:59.451 --> 01:10:06.451
Uh, we, we had a nice hike yesterday up at Horsetooth and, um, you know, we, we, we're going to end up doing some rafting.

01:10:06.451 --> 01:10:07.341
We haven't done it here yet.

01:10:07.501 --> 01:10:07.701
Yeah.

01:10:08.060 --> 01:10:10.350
I think I'm going to start looking for a motorcycle for you too.

01:10:10.360 --> 01:10:10.791
Is that right?

01:10:11.470 --> 01:10:11.871
Yeah.

01:10:11.871 --> 01:10:12.350
Yeah.

01:10:12.411 --> 01:10:22.360
Uh, now that the kids are out of the house, uh, hopefully I can talk, uh, my wife into letting me get one, but I grew up as a kid back in Alabama, I grew up riding motorcycles and I loved it.

01:10:22.400 --> 01:10:22.711
Oh,

01:10:22.761 --> 01:10:24.030
well then you're prime for it.

01:10:24.220 --> 01:10:33.820
Yeah, well, but they were, I mean, I mean, I think I had an XR75 at one point and I rode some 150s, but I, you know, I, I, for some reason I've, I've been fairly conservative.

01:10:33.820 --> 01:10:34.110
You've got a healthy

01:10:34.230 --> 01:10:37.860
respect for the power of the modern motorcycle.

01:10:38.220 --> 01:10:38.730
I do.

01:10:38.740 --> 01:10:42.180
Um, I, I'm intimidated by it and I'm not sure that I would ever do it again, but.

01:10:42.661 --> 01:10:44.451
Um, but I used to love it.

01:10:44.511 --> 01:10:46.270
I used to love it, but that was just messing around.

01:10:46.280 --> 01:10:46.860
I've got two of

01:10:46.860 --> 01:10:50.150
them, so if you get a license, uh, we can ride sometime when you're up next time.

01:10:50.270 --> 01:10:50.680
Okay.

01:10:50.740 --> 01:10:53.650
Um, bring your wife, my wife will pop on the back of one too.

01:10:53.810 --> 01:10:55.622
Okay, I'll work on it.

01:10:55.622 --> 01:11:00.291
So, uh, we always jump in the time machine and go back to, whatever did I say, second grade?

01:11:00.291 --> 01:11:01.541
Second grade in Alabama still?

01:11:02.451 --> 01:11:03.570
Or were you in Alabama yet?

01:11:03.801 --> 01:11:06.551
Yes, I was born and raised in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

01:11:06.560 --> 01:11:06.940
Okay.

01:11:06.951 --> 01:11:08.940
Uh, home of the University of Alabama.

01:11:08.942 --> 01:11:09.001
Okay, cool.

01:11:09.291 --> 01:11:14.390
Uh, Central Alabama, uh, Birmingham's right in the middle, and it's a little bit west of Birmingham.

01:11:14.411 --> 01:11:14.740
Okay.

01:11:15.180 --> 01:11:21.501
Uh, it's, uh, where the University of Alabama campus is, and, um, was born and raised there.

01:11:21.530 --> 01:11:27.261
My dad ended up, uh, and my mom ended up living there after they went to school there at University of Alabama.

01:11:27.261 --> 01:11:27.640
Oh, okay.

01:11:28.105 --> 01:11:30.796
My dad played football at Alabama under Bear Bryant.

01:11:30.805 --> 01:11:38.305
And my mom was going to school, they met there and, um, you know, got married, had kids and stayed in the town, uh, that they loved.

01:11:38.496 --> 01:11:41.676
And so I, you know, I had a great childhood there.

01:11:41.676 --> 01:11:44.235
I just, I cherished growing up in Tuscaloosa.

01:11:44.676 --> 01:11:46.926
What, uh, you have, Several siblings.

01:11:46.926 --> 01:11:50.326
What were your folks in business and education?

01:11:50.815 --> 01:11:50.985
Yeah.

01:11:50.985 --> 01:11:51.475
Good question.

01:11:51.475 --> 01:11:57.416
I have one brother, Blake, uh, he's, he's a couple of years younger than me, but he's about, you know, six inches taller than me.

01:11:57.456 --> 01:12:00.095
Oh, so he got my dad, he got my dad's size.

01:12:00.105 --> 01:12:03.615
No, he didn't play football, but, uh, he played golf, uh, like I did.

01:12:03.615 --> 01:12:05.895
And, uh, and we dilly dallyed in different sports.

01:12:06.355 --> 01:12:21.275
Uh, but, um, you know, he, he got my dad's size, but by the time we played so much youth football, by the time, you know, it kind of got serious, We were kind of burnt out on it, you know, and, and, but we were playing golf the whole time and loved it.

01:12:21.275 --> 01:12:25.235
And we both got, got really good at golf, we were junior golfers and did that as a kid.

01:12:26.065 --> 01:12:29.025
But, um, you know, I had a, I had a fun childhood.

01:12:29.025 --> 01:12:30.645
You know, you asked about two year old Todd.

01:12:31.225 --> 01:12:36.605
Um, I grew up in this neighborhood called High Forest, uh, right off the Black Warrior River in Tuscaloosa.

01:12:36.626 --> 01:12:49.185
And, you know, it was one, it was just a great childhood neighborhood where the kids ride around on bicycles and they climb trees and you have pickup football games and you walk in the creeks and you get that bus.

01:12:49.185 --> 01:12:49.435
Mom sends you

01:12:49.435 --> 01:12:51.855
out at eight o'clock in the morning and you come home by dinnertime.

01:12:52.070 --> 01:13:00.951
Yeah, yeah, you know, the phones were dial up rotary, right, and, uh, every now and then your mom might call, you know, Susan and say, Hey, have you seen my son?

01:13:00.961 --> 01:13:02.511
He's sitting right here, I'm feeding him lunch.

01:13:03.046 --> 01:13:04.996
Yeah, as long as you came back by dark, you were fine,

01:13:04.997 --> 01:13:05.296
right?

01:13:05.296 --> 01:13:05.886
Right, right.

01:13:05.975 --> 01:13:08.796
Yeah, that's kind of the way I was raised, more of the free range style.

01:13:09.695 --> 01:13:12.475
Yeah, uh, it was like that and it was, it was awesome.

01:13:12.506 --> 01:13:17.405
And um, you know, I wish, I wish my girls had, you know, grown up like that.

01:13:17.926 --> 01:13:20.865
Uh, it, it seems that it's a little more protected environment now.

01:13:20.895 --> 01:13:20.926
Sure.

01:13:20.926 --> 01:13:24.845
Now, it, it is a little different, well maybe it is, it's a little

01:13:24.845 --> 01:13:26.305
different with girls versus boys.

01:13:26.496 --> 01:13:31.515
My, uh, my dad was just talking about that, uh, he had Easter over and, and, you know.

01:13:32.565 --> 01:13:50.095
Two of my stepsisters and my stepbrother have all had babies in the last little while, and one of them scolded, uh, dad's wife, their mom, about, oh, you gotta hold the head better, and whatever, and it's like, oh my god, just, like, it's a baby, like, I could drop it and it'd be fine, probably, but, uh, we'll figure it out.

01:13:50.105 --> 01:13:52.345
Like, don't be, don't be helicopterin over it, you know?

01:13:52.836 --> 01:13:59.815
But it's kind of the mentality, unfortunately, like, I don't know, where that, just that fear.

01:14:00.326 --> 01:14:01.636
There's a lot of fear of the world.

01:14:01.956 --> 01:14:02.756
Well, that

01:14:02.756 --> 01:14:04.176
drives, that drives the news, right?

01:14:04.185 --> 01:14:06.376
That drives social media and the news.

01:14:06.416 --> 01:14:11.036
Uh, you know, you don't hear about the grandma that crossed the street successfully, the one that got ran over.

01:14:11.355 --> 01:14:11.626
Right.

01:14:11.636 --> 01:14:17.895
And so, uh, unfortunately a lot of that, but yeah, so it, I remember my wife and I,

01:14:18.126 --> 01:14:18.990
I would ride my bike to school.

01:14:19.091 --> 01:14:23.541
Three miles from home, you know, and climb a tree 40 feet in the air when my mom would never even know.

01:14:23.711 --> 01:14:25.680
Yes, I did the same exact things.

01:14:25.720 --> 01:14:28.280
I, I, you know, I, yeah, I don't know how we're alive.

01:14:28.291 --> 01:14:35.421
There's so many, so many times I should have died falling out of a tree, crashing into a car, whatever, but, um, Could have died.

01:14:36.201 --> 01:14:36.701
Could have died.

01:14:37.060 --> 01:14:37.570
Could've died.

01:14:37.780 --> 01:14:38.320
Could've died.

01:14:38.320 --> 01:14:38.640
You're right.

01:14:38.680 --> 01:14:38.881
Could've died.

01:14:38.881 --> 01:14:39.110
Right.

01:14:39.140 --> 01:14:43.320
Because that's what the could've is what people think about today and that's not what you need to think about.

01:14:43.621 --> 01:14:45.850
And it definitely wasn't should've because you were

01:14:45.850 --> 01:14:46.060
careful.

01:14:46.070 --> 01:14:46.421
True.

01:14:46.421 --> 01:14:46.850
Yeah.

01:14:47.131 --> 01:14:47.501
I didn't

01:14:47.501 --> 01:14:51.360
know what he was around to pick me up off the ground if I fell out of the tree so I didn't fall.

01:14:51.930 --> 01:14:52.711
That's a great story.

01:14:52.720 --> 01:14:59.190
Next door to my house I grew up in is this massive pine tree and I love it and could get 40 feet up in the tree.

01:14:59.360 --> 01:15:03.041
And I got up there one time and I slipped.

01:15:03.560 --> 01:15:08.860
And I fell and I hit one branch on the way down, flipped over and landed on my back.

01:15:09.030 --> 01:15:10.060
Oh, so you should have died.

01:15:10.140 --> 01:15:15.171
And, and I laid there, but I landed in grass, but I hit hard and it knocked the breath out of me.

01:15:15.171 --> 01:15:16.761
And I just laid there and looked up at the sky.

01:15:16.770 --> 01:15:18.761
I was like, you know, that kind of thing.

01:15:20.610 --> 01:15:22.600
And I looked around and, and there's no one.

01:15:22.911 --> 01:15:23.711
There's no one there.

01:15:23.730 --> 01:15:24.911
My mom and dad are gone.

01:15:24.940 --> 01:15:26.011
I don't know where my brother is.

01:15:26.041 --> 01:15:27.261
There's nobody on the streets.

01:15:27.360 --> 01:15:31.850
Uh, and I laid there and I finally just got up and brushed, brushed it off.

01:15:32.430 --> 01:15:36.350
And I, it's like so many things could have gone wrong right there on the way down.

01:15:36.350 --> 01:15:40.761
You know, I could have landed on my head and, you know, but you know, I lived and learned.

01:15:40.801 --> 01:15:43.041
I was more careful going forward the rest of my life.

01:15:43.400 --> 01:15:44.011
I'm sure.

01:15:44.110 --> 01:15:45.150
Yeah, I was fair.

01:15:45.680 --> 01:15:47.761
Um, so tell me about young Todd.

01:15:47.761 --> 01:15:51.951
Were you, were Were you an athlete, uh, beyond golf?

01:15:51.951 --> 01:15:53.310
Uh, that was your main focus.

01:15:53.310 --> 01:15:54.631
It sounds like in some respects.

01:15:55.320 --> 01:15:55.600
Yeah.

01:15:55.621 --> 01:15:58.740
I, you know, I kind of grew up as a country club child.

01:15:59.251 --> 01:16:01.150
Our neighborhood was right next to a country club.

01:16:01.150 --> 01:16:05.581
And, and, uh, so I played a lot of golf and tennis, you know, a whole lot of golf and tennis.

01:16:05.581 --> 01:16:08.690
But while I was doing that, I was playing football.

01:16:08.690 --> 01:16:10.240
I would play a little bit of soccer.

01:16:10.820 --> 01:16:12.230
Um, and.

01:16:12.926 --> 01:16:15.855
Never was really into basketball, but I love basketball now.

01:16:15.886 --> 01:16:16.706
I mean, I love it.

01:16:17.046 --> 01:16:20.166
So, um, and, and I don't play as much golf anymore.

01:16:20.166 --> 01:16:25.336
Um, you know, raising, raising my girls, uh, with my wife, Elisa, we, you know,

01:16:25.336 --> 01:16:25.626
we.

01:16:25.645 --> 01:16:27.256
That's been the focus of the last 25 years.

01:16:27.256 --> 01:16:27.945
That's been our

01:16:27.945 --> 01:16:28.176
focus.

01:16:28.176 --> 01:16:28.405
Yeah.

01:16:28.405 --> 01:16:35.576
And, and they were very active girls and, you know, our last one, Libby, uh, she was, you know, a national level soccer player.

01:16:35.576 --> 01:16:38.775
And so every weekend for years, we were in another city.

01:16:39.230 --> 01:16:40.551
Flights and travel and all that.

01:16:40.551 --> 01:16:42.940
And so we were on this bullet train for the whole time.

01:16:42.940 --> 01:16:43.740
We're raising kids.

01:16:44.301 --> 01:16:49.841
And, and just recently we became empty nesters and, uh, with Libby here at, at Colorado state

01:16:50.100 --> 01:16:50.220
and

01:16:51.280 --> 01:16:55.961
it's like you step off of a bullet train and you're just, you're standing still and you're looking at each other.

01:16:55.980 --> 01:16:56.990
Like, what are we going to do now?

01:16:57.815 --> 01:17:00.586
And, uh, and it's, and it actually it's been fun.

01:17:00.595 --> 01:17:13.496
Uh, we, we're figuring it out and, um, uh, but some of it we filled in with some, we're doing a remodeling at our house in Austin and, uh, so, uh, but we, we're figuring it out.

01:17:13.515 --> 01:17:13.826
And.

01:17:13.827 --> 01:17:13.966
Yeah.

01:17:14.115 --> 01:17:14.966
I'm looking forward to it.

01:17:14.966 --> 01:17:19.826
I think I'm hoping I can talk her into getting on the golf course and us both playing some golf together.

01:17:19.827 --> 01:17:26.725
Uh, things like that, but we're going to do a little more travel for ourselves, uh, and, uh, and, and go see some places.

01:17:27.345 --> 01:17:29.416
How did Libby land in Fort Collins?

01:17:29.515 --> 01:17:31.025
A big scholarship?

01:17:31.086 --> 01:17:33.555
Was she shopped at other universities and things?

01:17:33.565 --> 01:17:35.065
She wanted to be in Colorado?

01:17:35.770 --> 01:17:36.030
Yeah.

01:17:36.350 --> 01:18:01.850
Uh, so yeah, we were on that bullet train of, of recruiting and, and trying to get a scholarship, uh, as she was playing soccer and, and I was, I was, I was her social media person and, and I was, and for the team and I'm sending out, it just, it's funny that me, I'm doing that, but I w I was doing it and, uh, she, you know, she continued to get better and continued to fight through injuries and stress and the struggles of, of high level athletes.

01:18:01.850 --> 01:18:03.621
It's, it's, it's not easy.

01:18:03.621 --> 01:18:04.121
No joke.

01:18:04.121 --> 01:18:04.341
Yeah.

01:18:04.360 --> 01:18:05.371
There's so many times when.

01:18:05.621 --> 01:18:08.110
She could have quit and we would have said, Hey, that's fine.

01:18:08.110 --> 01:18:09.041
This is your choice.

01:18:09.650 --> 01:18:25.511
And, you know, together as a team, we powered through it, you know, through doctor visits, through therapy, through just, uh, you know, just trying to be there for her, uh, because we didn't want to be those pushy parents that, you know, pushed her into something she didn't want to

01:18:25.751 --> 01:18:29.411
support you and everything you want to do and not push you into anything you don't,

01:18:29.621 --> 01:18:30.030
right.

01:18:30.280 --> 01:18:34.341
And, uh, COVID came along her sophomore year of high school.

01:18:35.161 --> 01:18:37.390
Almost, you know, ruined everything.

01:18:37.740 --> 01:18:41.110
Uh, COVID was tough on Libby, uh, as it is on a lot of, a lot of kids.

01:18:41.121 --> 01:18:46.121
Some kids thrived educationally and, uh, socially during that time, but others didn't.

01:18:46.581 --> 01:18:50.121
And, um, but Libby had soccer to fall back on.

01:18:50.121 --> 01:19:00.440
Her high school team meant so much to her and that team went to the state championship in Texas for division, for division six, which is the biggest high schools.

01:19:00.541 --> 01:19:00.930
Oh, wow.

01:19:01.070 --> 01:19:01.411
So.

01:19:01.636 --> 01:19:03.996
Her team and she was the starting keeper of the whole season.

01:19:03.996 --> 01:19:15.805
So she, that right there, I think was huge in helping her navigate through COVID, uh, in, in that it just, cause COVID was so tough, tough on people as far as emotionally.

01:19:15.805 --> 01:19:23.416
And, um, you know, Libby was a social butterfly and to not have that, uh, the way it was, was, was tough, tough on everyone.

01:19:23.855 --> 01:19:27.636
Uh, not just her, but, um, so that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that,

01:19:27.796 --> 01:19:30.265
Brought her level of visibility up a little bit.

01:19:30.305 --> 01:19:30.435
It

01:19:30.445 --> 01:19:30.695
did.

01:19:30.706 --> 01:19:31.176
That helped.

01:19:31.176 --> 01:19:32.886
And she was doing really good in club soccer.

01:19:32.895 --> 01:19:36.685
And then the next two years, they did really well in high school as well.

01:19:36.685 --> 01:19:52.685
And, uh, meanwhile, we're trying to get noticed by colleges and we're going to camps and we're going to, uh, different showcases with our team and all that was going fine and she had a few target schools in mind, but, uh, Colorado state was not one of them.

01:19:53.246 --> 01:19:57.275
But what happened though, is Colorado state cleared out the coaching staff that.

01:19:57.296 --> 01:19:59.386
you know, soccer coaching staff.

01:20:00.155 --> 01:20:02.966
They hired Keely Hagen from the university of Texas.

01:20:02.966 --> 01:20:04.265
She was the assistant head coach.

01:20:05.025 --> 01:20:13.445
They brought her as the head coach and then Keely Hagen hired Libby's high school coach, Vandegriff high school, Cherish LaChapelle.

01:20:15.121 --> 01:20:21.091
So these two ladies from Austin, who know Libby, came up here and so it just fell into

01:20:21.390 --> 01:20:21.530
place.

01:20:21.541 --> 01:20:24.720
And they said, our goalkeeper is okay.

01:20:24.720 --> 01:20:25.980
She's a senior though.

01:20:26.701 --> 01:20:27.621
What's Libby doing?

01:20:27.711 --> 01:20:29.400
Well, at the time they had three other keepers.

01:20:29.440 --> 01:20:29.970
Oh wow.

01:20:30.011 --> 01:20:31.631
But you're always looking down the road.

01:20:31.661 --> 01:20:33.070
So they were looking down the road.

01:20:33.070 --> 01:20:34.480
They made her an early offer.

01:20:35.041 --> 01:20:39.865
And And we could have held out and, and waiting on other

01:20:39.865 --> 01:20:40.701
offers,

01:20:40.701 --> 01:20:53.970
uh, goalkeepers tend to get early offers cause there's, there's only one on the field at a time, you know, at 10 other girls, uh, field players, but, um, we didn't want to wait, uh, we were all exhausted from the process, but it was the right.

01:20:54.320 --> 01:20:55.201
thing for her.

01:20:55.211 --> 01:20:58.970
And as parents were like, Oh my God, this is, this makes us feel good.

01:20:58.980 --> 01:21:00.240
These two people we trust.

01:21:00.240 --> 01:21:00.421
Yeah.

01:21:00.421 --> 01:21:00.701
Yeah.

01:21:00.761 --> 01:21:02.801
And, and they're, they're female.

01:21:02.841 --> 01:21:03.661
They're from Austin.

01:21:03.671 --> 01:21:04.631
They know Libby.

01:21:05.081 --> 01:21:06.251
They're going to be good for her.

01:21:06.280 --> 01:21:10.100
And, and Libby, Libby's leaving Texas and going to Colorado out of state.

01:21:10.100 --> 01:21:10.430
Right.

01:21:10.621 --> 01:21:10.980
It all.

01:21:11.020 --> 01:21:12.201
And, and, and well, in

01:21:12.201 --> 01:21:18.421
your likelihood of getting a second home in Alabama, if she went to Tuscaloosa is probably lesser than a Fort Collins place.

01:21:18.860 --> 01:21:19.310
Yeah.

01:21:19.350 --> 01:21:19.690
Yeah.

01:21:19.711 --> 01:21:20.461
No offense, Alabama.

01:21:20.470 --> 01:21:20.640
That

01:21:20.640 --> 01:21:21.251
was an option.

01:21:21.310 --> 01:21:22.041
That was an option.

01:21:22.041 --> 01:21:24.520
We were looking at that, but, uh, It was a long shot.

01:21:25.180 --> 01:21:26.911
Um, I mean, that's a big program.

01:21:26.911 --> 01:21:27.921
I'm sure in comparison,

01:21:28.631 --> 01:21:34.201
uh, they're both D one, but Alabama has a very good soccer program, but, but it didn't matter.

01:21:34.201 --> 01:21:42.930
We visited the campus, fell in love with Colorado state campus, fell in love with Fort Collins, the coaches, and they gave her a nice scholarship and it was just.

01:21:43.336 --> 01:21:51.095
A match made in heaven and here, uh, nine months later, since, since you started school, don't regret a bit of it.

01:21:51.095 --> 01:21:52.905
It's just been a wonderful experience for her.

01:21:53.015 --> 01:21:53.595
What a neat thing.

01:21:53.815 --> 01:22:00.025
Oh, I just realized I didn't offer before we started, but I do keep a joint handy in case of 420 opportunities required.

01:22:01.025 --> 01:22:04.935
I didn't anticipate you probably would, but, uh, but you're in Colorado now.

01:22:04.935 --> 01:22:08.275
So just like Elon Musk when he was, uh, on Rogan, you could.

01:22:08.286 --> 01:22:09.095
That's legal.

01:22:09.176 --> 01:22:10.315
Technically I could.

01:22:10.315 --> 01:22:11.426
I'm going to, I'm going to pass.

01:22:11.645 --> 01:22:11.975
Okay.

01:22:12.055 --> 01:22:15.126
But I'm not offended, and you can No, I'm not going to spoil it.

01:22:15.216 --> 01:22:15.416
Okay.

01:22:15.725 --> 01:22:15.865
That

01:22:15.865 --> 01:22:16.876
one's been there for six weeks.

01:22:17.076 --> 01:22:17.355
Oh, okay.

01:22:17.905 --> 01:22:18.845
It's just always ready.

01:22:19.326 --> 01:22:25.046
Um, I was going to kind of fly through, like, how did you get into the petroleum engineering?

01:22:25.046 --> 01:22:28.426
You did the high school thing, probably had pretty good grades and stuff.

01:22:28.426 --> 01:22:30.025
Did you know what you wanted to do?

01:22:30.025 --> 01:22:35.456
I assume it's kind of an intensive, uh Are you a petroleum engineer or mechanical engineer, or what's your special sauce?

01:22:35.886 --> 01:22:36.395
Good question.

01:22:36.395 --> 01:22:39.466
I am a petroleum engineer from the University of Texas in Austin.

01:22:39.536 --> 01:22:39.855
Okay.

01:22:40.095 --> 01:22:46.421
Um I got to Texas because my parents divorced in Alabama back when I was around 11 years old, 12 years old.

01:22:46.421 --> 01:22:46.661
Oh, okay.

01:22:47.100 --> 01:22:56.201
And at 15, my mom decided she wanted to move to Dallas, uh, live with her sister and start a child psychology practice.

01:22:56.270 --> 01:22:56.820
Oh, wow.

01:22:56.841 --> 01:22:56.871
Okay.

01:22:56.881 --> 01:22:57.511
And she did.

01:22:57.796 --> 01:23:03.315
And, and she goes, you guys, it's, you know, Todd and Blake, it's up to you if you want to stay or go.

01:23:03.355 --> 01:23:07.155
And I, I was like, I'm ready to leave Tuscaloosa.

01:23:07.336 --> 01:23:10.086
And, um, you know, I, I wanted to change.

01:23:10.136 --> 01:23:20.046
Uh, you know, I was my sophomore year of high school and, and, uh, Uh, I just was intrigued by Dallas, you know, the, the show Dallas had been on during my life, Dallas Cowboys.

01:23:20.355 --> 01:23:26.286
My dad played for the Dallas Texans in pro ball and they became the Kansas City Chiefs and he played for the Chiefs.

01:23:26.786 --> 01:23:29.756
So Dallas was, was, you know, the place for me.

01:23:29.765 --> 01:23:31.445
And so I left before my mom did.

01:23:31.445 --> 01:23:33.386
I wanted to get into high school quickly.

01:23:33.386 --> 01:23:35.655
So I moved out there and my brother came.

01:23:35.676 --> 01:23:42.996
And so I ended up in Texas and just through, uh, just knowing some they recommended University of Texas and I visited.

01:23:43.680 --> 01:23:47.661
Uh, at that point, it was clear that I was a little better at math than I was at English.

01:23:48.220 --> 01:23:49.570
Uh, uh, I love science.

01:23:49.591 --> 01:23:54.270
I love, um, I do like, I do a lot of writing now, uh, but it's more technical writing.

01:23:54.320 --> 01:23:54.591
Yeah.

01:23:54.881 --> 01:23:59.860
Uh, but it was the typical, hey, you're good in math and go be an engineer.

01:23:59.911 --> 01:24:00.211
Right.

01:24:00.430 --> 01:24:01.711
That's really what it was.

01:24:02.121 --> 01:24:09.365
Uh, I don't have any petroleum in the, or hydrocarbon in the background, no, no oil and gas industry in my background family at all.

01:24:09.826 --> 01:24:12.176
I didn't know anything about oil and gas drilling.

01:24:12.355 --> 01:24:14.326
Uh, I knew, I knew very little about it.

01:24:14.326 --> 01:24:19.445
So, uh, I went to UT to study engineering and petroleum.

01:24:19.805 --> 01:24:24.805
They said they had the biggest salaries and I found out they had the most scholarships available.

01:24:25.801 --> 01:24:30.240
And I gave it a try and I made it through the first semester, the first year.

01:24:30.381 --> 01:24:34.270
And, uh, and then they gave me another scholarship just cause my grades were decent.

01:24:35.001 --> 01:24:38.970
And then I made it through another year and they gave me another scholarship and they were layering them on and.

01:24:39.605 --> 01:24:42.836
What was happening is the oil and gas industry was tanking

01:24:42.985 --> 01:24:43.015
and

01:24:43.926 --> 01:24:46.735
students were jettisoning out of the program.

01:24:47.155 --> 01:24:51.886
So I started with 110 entering my class and 11 graduated.

01:24:51.945 --> 01:24:52.636
Oh, wow.

01:24:52.676 --> 01:24:54.355
10 percent basically graduated.

01:24:54.416 --> 01:24:55.046
Wow.

01:24:55.095 --> 01:24:59.506
And, uh, most of that was because their parents said, you're in a dead industry.

01:25:00.055 --> 01:25:00.945
Go to business school.

01:25:01.105 --> 01:25:01.695
Wow.

01:25:01.706 --> 01:25:03.195
Or, or some of them failed out.

01:25:03.206 --> 01:25:04.466
It was very, very difficult.

01:25:04.466 --> 01:25:04.496
Sure.

01:25:04.716 --> 01:25:10.161
I will say it's To this day, I'm surprised I made it through, but, uh, but, but I did.

01:25:10.171 --> 01:25:11.131
And thank goodness I did.

01:25:11.131 --> 01:25:14.411
And by the time I came out, prices had come back just a little bit

01:25:14.730 --> 01:25:14.930
and

01:25:14.980 --> 01:25:16.780
everybody got multiple offers.

01:25:17.591 --> 01:25:19.190
And so I just got lucky.

01:25:19.190 --> 01:25:20.610
The timing was just complete luck.

01:25:20.610 --> 01:25:24.171
The two classes before me, they did, there was no offers.

01:25:24.201 --> 01:25:25.190
It was really tough,

01:25:25.341 --> 01:25:25.791
interesting,

01:25:25.890 --> 01:25:27.421
or very few offers, I should say.

01:25:27.520 --> 01:25:34.081
So, um, that's why I went to UT and, uh, and studied petroleum engineering and, and, uh, luckily.

01:25:34.600 --> 01:25:42.341
Out of all the offers I got, I got one from Chevron, uh, and they were the only company out of all our offers that said I could go into drilling.

01:25:42.810 --> 01:25:43.121
Okay.

01:25:43.520 --> 01:25:49.100
And, uh, at school, I didn't get much, uh, training or, or education on drilling.

01:25:49.110 --> 01:25:50.591
I learned about how to produce wells.

01:25:50.871 --> 01:25:52.131
I learned about the reservoir.

01:25:52.570 --> 01:25:56.560
I learned about geology, but it was very little that they had in the curriculum for drilling.

01:25:56.940 --> 01:26:01.126
And so Chevron said, Hey, we've got a spot for you in New Orleans.

01:26:01.265 --> 01:26:01.466
Yep.

01:26:01.565 --> 01:26:02.176
Would you want to come?

01:26:02.176 --> 01:26:02.945
I'm like, New Orleans?

01:26:02.945 --> 01:26:03.485
Heck yeah.

01:26:04.076 --> 01:26:04.576
And plus

01:26:04.576 --> 01:26:06.185
drilling is kind of the gap in your game at the time.

01:26:06.195 --> 01:26:06.506
It was the

01:26:06.506 --> 01:26:06.895
gap.

01:26:07.456 --> 01:26:14.756
And, uh, I'm so glad I did it because it, it gave me an insight to the industry where, where it matters most.

01:26:14.765 --> 01:26:22.131
I mean, if you can't, if you can't drill a good well or manage a good well or, or repair a good well, uh, then you're not going to have business.

01:26:22.291 --> 01:26:24.110
Production and you're not going to have a company.

01:26:24.110 --> 01:26:37.091
And so it was, it was really good to see that part of it because now as an engineer sitting behind my desk, just pushing electrons around every morning, uh, I'm looking at data and I can think about, oh, why is this data telling me?

01:26:37.091 --> 01:26:37.780
What is it telling me?

01:26:37.780 --> 01:26:41.930
And I can think back about, about that wellbore and what could be going on down hole.

01:26:42.020 --> 01:26:42.541
Right.

01:26:43.020 --> 01:26:44.421
So that was, that was super cool.

01:26:44.440 --> 01:26:51.930
The other super cool thing is, um, My first two years there, I was working a week on and a week off.

01:26:52.570 --> 01:26:56.990
So I would go out to the rigs and they would fly the company, company man out to the rigs.

01:26:57.030 --> 01:26:58.020
We would do our work.

01:26:58.110 --> 01:26:58.690
We'd come back.

01:26:58.690 --> 01:27:01.400
And then I had a week off and you know, right out of college.

01:27:01.400 --> 01:27:03.421
And that was very nice because I could go play golf.

01:27:03.421 --> 01:27:04.291
I could exercise.

01:27:04.291 --> 01:27:07.511
I could travel, go see my, my girlfriend, which is my wife.

01:27:08.320 --> 01:27:08.680
Um,

01:27:08.720 --> 01:27:10.980
and you find her in college, I guess, in college.

01:27:11.051 --> 01:27:11.310
Yeah, we

01:27:11.310 --> 01:27:13.041
met, we met at university of Texas.

01:27:13.581 --> 01:27:22.220
And, uh, and then after she graduated a year after me, uh, She, she joined me in New Orleans and we got engaged and, and then we got married in 93.

01:27:22.411 --> 01:27:22.690
Okay.

01:27:23.140 --> 01:27:30.430
Um, how did, I mean, so you were only a few years into your career, really, when you got into the Collie Gillespie firm, huh?

01:27:30.860 --> 01:27:32.421
Yeah, it was under

01:27:32.421 --> 01:27:33.110
four years.

01:27:33.131 --> 01:27:41.661
I was at Chevron and, um, oddly enough, uh, It doesn't make sense that they found me and that I'm still here.

01:27:41.680 --> 01:27:48.841
But the president of Colley Gillespie at the time contacted a professor at the university of Texas, uh, Dr.

01:27:48.841 --> 01:27:58.791
Larry Lake, he's a legend and, and oil and gas, uh, you know, research and said, Hey, I, I need, I need a young engineer, a go getter, and I need somebody, you know, I need a machine.

01:27:59.171 --> 01:27:59.381
Yeah.

01:27:59.430 --> 01:28:06.350
And, um, Larry Lake gave him my name and I didn't know that he didn't professor knew me,

01:28:06.390 --> 01:28:06.770
right.

01:28:07.001 --> 01:28:08.720
I have to admit, I was, I was.

01:28:09.176 --> 01:28:13.185
I wore flip flops, shorts, tank tops, and I had blonde hair in college.

01:28:13.815 --> 01:28:15.695
And I would go to class like that.

01:28:15.756 --> 01:28:24.286
And I, I just embarrassed thinking back about it, but this, this nice man, uh, who, who was, he was probably my single toughest course as well.

01:28:24.286 --> 01:28:25.996
He taught reservoir engineering and it was tough.

01:28:26.636 --> 01:28:30.985
Uh, he, he was a good teacher, but, but tough and gave him a name.

01:28:31.386 --> 01:28:33.126
I flew to Fort Worth, interviewed.

01:28:33.365 --> 01:28:39.091
And, uh, they said, you know, Todd, with you, there's the good, the bad and the ugly.

01:28:39.301 --> 01:28:42.091
And, you know, the good is everybody liked you on your interview.

01:28:42.100 --> 01:28:42.820
I'm like, okay, great.

01:28:43.470 --> 01:28:51.831
The bad is that you have, um, that, that you don't have much reservoir engineering experience and our firm does reservoir engineering.

01:28:51.841 --> 01:28:55.631
And I'm like, yeah, he goes, but we think you can learn that you've got enough of the basics.

01:28:55.661 --> 01:28:56.650
We'll teach you what you need.

01:28:56.650 --> 01:28:57.070
I'm like, okay.

01:28:57.211 --> 01:28:58.041
And I said, what's the ugly?

01:28:58.591 --> 01:29:00.730
He goes, well, you own a house in new Orleans.

01:29:00.730 --> 01:29:05.326
And And I just don't think you're going to be able to sell it and you're going to be underwater on it.

01:29:05.326 --> 01:29:07.725
And, and that's going to, you're going to be,

01:29:07.945 --> 01:29:08.595
keep you there.

01:29:08.595 --> 01:29:09.565
And so here, or,

01:29:09.636 --> 01:29:12.725
or I'm going to take a bath on it if I move.

01:29:13.496 --> 01:29:15.065
And I'm like, that's the ugly.

01:29:15.065 --> 01:29:16.485
I said, don't worry about that.

01:29:16.485 --> 01:29:17.855
I can, I can, I'm fine.

01:29:18.046 --> 01:29:19.095
And we struck a deal.

01:29:19.095 --> 01:29:22.485
And I, and to be honest, we had, we had our fun in new Orleans.

01:29:22.536 --> 01:29:25.265
We had, you know, three or four years there that was enough.

01:29:25.895 --> 01:29:29.706
You know, if you've been to New York city or you've been to Vegas and you have your fun.

01:29:30.411 --> 01:29:31.820
You know when it's time to get out, right?

01:29:31.820 --> 01:29:32.230
Yeah, I like

01:29:32.230 --> 01:29:34.011
to say I spent a month in L.

01:29:34.011 --> 01:29:34.081
A.

01:29:34.081 --> 01:29:34.650
one week.

01:29:35.480 --> 01:29:36.980
Because I don't really want to be there, you know.

01:29:36.990 --> 01:29:38.001
A week was enough.

01:29:38.011 --> 01:29:38.770
Felt like a month.

01:29:39.360 --> 01:29:42.261
Yeah, well we had several years and, uh, and loved it.

01:29:42.261 --> 01:29:43.680
Loved New Orleans, loved the people there.

01:29:43.680 --> 01:29:46.930
Just, just the salt of the earth and, and just had such great experiences.

01:29:46.930 --> 01:29:47.190
Yeah.

01:29:47.451 --> 01:29:49.430
No regrets at all and Chevron was good to me.

01:29:49.470 --> 01:29:51.201
Got married, fell in love with this woman.

01:29:51.201 --> 01:29:53.485
You want to make some babies and New Orleans isn't too far away.

01:29:53.706 --> 01:29:54.916
Maybe the place where you don't want to do that.

01:29:56.305 --> 01:29:59.145
Didn't think of it that way at the time, but yeah, we wanted to get back to Texas.

01:29:59.145 --> 01:30:00.115
Her family was there.

01:30:00.115 --> 01:30:03.355
My mom was there and, uh, and my brother was there.

01:30:03.355 --> 01:30:04.706
So it made a lot of sense.

01:30:05.926 --> 01:30:07.695
So any major highlights?

01:30:07.746 --> 01:30:11.256
I mean, you're just kind of a grinder made partner have for how many years?

01:30:12.286 --> 01:30:14.595
Yeah, it took, uh, six or seven years.

01:30:14.595 --> 01:30:15.746
I don't remember exactly.

01:30:15.796 --> 01:30:18.786
Um, But I worked very hard to become a partner.

01:30:19.065 --> 01:30:23.626
I, again, I mentioned Zane Meekins before I, they hired me to be him.

01:30:23.975 --> 01:30:27.525
Uh, I, they, they basically told me that we just want a clone of Zane Meekins.

01:30:28.136 --> 01:30:30.286
And he's like five years your senior or something like that.

01:30:30.286 --> 01:30:40.305
He's three years my senior, but he was valedictorian of his class at Texas A& M and, and those, and it was, and he was billing, uh, more hours than anybody had at the firm ever.

01:30:40.326 --> 01:30:43.006
And so I'm like, Oh man, tough to follow.

01:30:43.055 --> 01:30:43.345
Right.

01:30:43.536 --> 01:30:47.966
But, you know, I found out that There's plenty of work and I, I didn't have to be him.

01:30:48.015 --> 01:30:49.916
Um, and there's ways I can be different than him.

01:30:49.916 --> 01:30:50.206
Right.

01:30:50.725 --> 01:30:54.966
Um, you know, I wasn't, you know, I, I felt like I'm not going to be smarter than him.

01:30:55.496 --> 01:31:01.036
I'm probably not going to outwork him, but there's other things that I can do differently that might, might help me become a partner.

01:31:01.036 --> 01:31:13.695
And that was, you know, things like just making the clients happy, uh, you know, meeting deadlines, doing some business development and maybe growing the client base with my boss, seeing this, you know, and so I did those kinds of things.

01:31:13.695 --> 01:31:15.426
And I started to be able to figure out.

01:31:16.036 --> 01:31:17.615
How do I kind of make it rain here?

01:31:17.626 --> 01:31:18.466
It took time.

01:31:18.536 --> 01:31:18.716
Yeah.

01:31:18.716 --> 01:31:19.006
Yeah.

01:31:19.065 --> 01:31:20.405
But you know, I, and

01:31:21.206 --> 01:31:29.365
in the end, that was a big part of it though, is you brought in more business, you brought in more business that you could do, which allows them to have other folks to do some of that work.

01:31:29.365 --> 01:31:30.345
And that's a good thing too.

01:31:30.645 --> 01:31:31.036
Yes.

01:31:31.456 --> 01:31:32.855
Uh, that did happen.

01:31:32.865 --> 01:31:35.626
And, uh, you know, I kind of grew into it.

01:31:36.890 --> 01:31:42.341
The funny thing about our firm is it's mostly engineers and geologists and none of us have a, have any business running a business.

01:31:42.341 --> 01:31:45.011
You know, it's like, well, nobody does.

01:31:45.190 --> 01:31:45.331
Yeah.

01:31:45.331 --> 01:31:47.211
Most of us don't have MBAs.

01:31:47.211 --> 01:31:47.740
Like 99 percent of.

01:31:48.115 --> 01:31:50.496
Business owners are not MBAs in the world.

01:31:50.496 --> 01:31:50.855
So

01:31:50.895 --> 01:31:56.065
it's a great point, but, um, I would say engineers are even more challenged on certain things.

01:31:57.435 --> 01:31:59.376
But, uh, you know, we are pretty conservative,

01:31:59.756 --> 01:32:02.586
but, um, but anyway, spreadsheets though, so that's nice.

01:32:02.626 --> 01:32:02.765
We

01:32:02.765 --> 01:32:03.645
are good with spreadsheets.

01:32:03.935 --> 01:32:07.190
Uh, it does pay the bills, but, uh, so.

01:32:07.900 --> 01:32:15.911
I made Partner after working very hard doing that and, and, uh, I was very happy with it, but it didn't really change anything.

01:32:16.280 --> 01:32:20.780
Um, you know, sometimes you can just work so hard for a goal and you get there.

01:32:21.546 --> 01:32:22.445
And you're like, what's next?

01:32:23.275 --> 01:32:26.536
And our firm's so flat that there really wasn't an X.

01:32:26.546 --> 01:32:29.695
I was never thinking about becoming president or that was my goal.

01:32:30.185 --> 01:32:35.176
You know, I was there because I enjoyed the environment, love the oil and gas industry.

01:32:35.765 --> 01:32:37.466
Uh, I love working with clients.

01:32:37.506 --> 01:32:39.355
Uh, I, I like project flow.

01:32:39.355 --> 01:32:42.836
I like seeing different things and, and I like the team collaboration.

01:32:42.836 --> 01:32:44.456
So it was just, and I still love it today.

01:32:44.456 --> 01:32:48.365
I'm, I'm, I've been there that long and I've had so many opportunities to go elsewhere.

01:32:49.246 --> 01:32:52.055
But, uh, you know, I'm a little conservative when it comes to that.

01:32:52.365 --> 01:32:55.475
I'm not like you, I've talked to you, you impressed the heck out of me.

01:32:55.506 --> 01:33:06.706
The number of risks that you've taken over the last decade or two in, you know, changing careers and, and, and, and doing things way outside the box.

01:33:07.246 --> 01:33:08.836
Uh, you're not, you're not just, you're not just

01:33:08.836 --> 01:33:09.206
children.

01:33:09.206 --> 01:33:10.435
That's part of my, you know, it's a

01:33:10.805 --> 01:33:11.496
great point.

01:33:11.555 --> 01:33:11.805
Yeah.

01:33:12.115 --> 01:33:14.435
You know, stability or certainly a factor.

01:33:14.445 --> 01:33:14.666
Yeah.

01:33:14.706 --> 01:33:28.801
Stability to keep the family, uh, you know, happy and intact is, is And, and that, that drove a lot of my decisions, to be honest with you, do I want to move from Austin to Houston and, you know, the Mecca of oil and gas, do I really want to move there for an extra whatever?

01:33:29.251 --> 01:33:29.770
No.

01:33:30.220 --> 01:33:37.270
Uh, you know, and so I had opportunities to do that and, you know, usually my wife and I would make a pro con list and I encourage anybody to do that.

01:33:37.280 --> 01:33:41.501
Don't just blindly make the decision, but write down all the pros, write down all the cons, maybe wait.

01:33:41.905 --> 01:33:45.336
Just like an engineer, I put it in a spreadsheet, I weighted each one.

01:33:45.336 --> 01:33:45.756
Right, right.

01:33:45.796 --> 01:33:50.435
And then I ranked it one to five and then I did the math and I'm like, well, honey, the math shows that

01:33:50.436 --> 01:33:51.466
we stay.

01:33:51.466 --> 01:33:57.916
Uh, yeah, but there's opportunities looking back that I passed up and I could, I maybe I could have made a fortune.

01:33:58.386 --> 01:34:01.305
Maybe I could have retired by now, but, uh, I.

01:34:01.546 --> 01:34:06.966
Colleague Gillespie has taken very good care of me, and I'm doing my best to take good care of it.

01:34:06.966 --> 01:34:13.195
I want to hand it off to the next round of partners, and, you know, maybe within the next decade I'll be done.

01:34:13.605 --> 01:34:16.411
That's what I was going to go to, you know, how long do you want to be there?

01:34:17.301 --> 01:34:19.041
I don't have a set, you know, set.

01:34:19.171 --> 01:34:19.770
I like it that much.

01:34:19.770 --> 01:34:20.320
More than five

01:34:20.320 --> 01:34:20.671
years.

01:34:20.701 --> 01:34:21.001
Yeah.

01:34:21.530 --> 01:34:22.690
Yeah, definitely.

01:34:22.690 --> 01:34:37.291
I want to be there more than five years, but I'm not opposed to, um, you know, taking a step back and doing things part time and let somebody else come in and be president, you know, maybe somebody is going to step up and be, you clearly be the one and, and I'm fine with that.

01:34:37.341 --> 01:34:38.121
Um, do you think

01:34:38.131 --> 01:34:40.020
that person is on your, in your firm right now?

01:34:40.461 --> 01:34:40.711
Yeah.

01:34:40.751 --> 01:34:43.475
There's one or two that are, that are That I think are special.

01:34:43.475 --> 01:34:43.756
They could

01:34:43.756 --> 01:34:44.076
do it.

01:34:44.136 --> 01:34:44.456
Oh yeah.

01:34:44.506 --> 01:34:44.676
Yeah.

01:34:44.676 --> 01:34:46.485
They'll definitely do it if they want to.

01:34:46.586 --> 01:34:46.865
Right.

01:34:46.865 --> 01:34:47.136
Right.

01:34:47.185 --> 01:34:49.195
The problem nowadays is people get poached.

01:34:49.395 --> 01:34:49.645
Right.

01:34:50.305 --> 01:34:50.475
Somebody

01:34:50.475 --> 01:34:50.975
might pay them.

01:34:51.315 --> 01:34:53.996
40 grand a year more just to come for their firm in Houston.

01:34:54.145 --> 01:34:54.485
Yeah.

01:34:54.805 --> 01:34:57.695
The reason they're successful with us is because their clients love them.

01:34:58.145 --> 01:35:08.865
And those clients, every one of those clients is a potential, you know, a suitor, so, um, you know, but I, I, with most of the oil and gas companies, they They tend to leave us alone.

01:35:08.876 --> 01:35:10.475
We don't get poached too often.

01:35:10.765 --> 01:35:22.555
And, uh, and I will say with all the consolidation that's happening, you know, when Exxon says they buy Pioneer and you put those two companies together, every employee doesn't go with Exxon, there's a lot that go away.

01:35:22.555 --> 01:35:25.336
They, they got to, you know, it's, it's about saving expenses on

01:35:25.336 --> 01:35:25.916
GNA.

01:35:25.916 --> 01:35:27.605
There's a lot more open, free agents out there.

01:35:27.605 --> 01:35:28.206
There's a lot of free

01:35:28.206 --> 01:35:28.966
agents out there.

01:35:28.966 --> 01:35:46.291
So, um, so I'm comfortable with, with where we're at, but, uh, on, on our staff and the people that are there and I'm, I'm hoping they stay because, you know, I will say one thing I thought about before this, this podcast with you is that, uh, sometimes perseverance is.

01:35:46.655 --> 01:35:51.086
you know, uh, is the, the answer to why is this person successful?

01:35:51.136 --> 01:35:51.365
Yeah.

01:35:52.176 --> 01:35:53.216
Sometimes they're smart.

01:35:53.225 --> 01:35:57.876
Sometimes they're lucky, whatever it is, but, but perseverance in a lot of cases pays off.

01:35:57.876 --> 01:35:59.685
And, and that, for me, that's what it was.

01:35:59.695 --> 01:36:06.195
I just stuck around and other people left and I, I kept, refining and improving and

01:36:06.275 --> 01:36:06.565
yeah,

01:36:06.716 --> 01:36:11.216
and when you, sometimes you look around, you're the oldest person in the room all of a sudden, you know, when you were the youngest,

01:36:11.916 --> 01:36:12.985
I used to be the young guy.

01:36:13.095 --> 01:36:14.645
No, I'm not that anymore.

01:36:14.786 --> 01:36:15.055
Yeah.

01:36:15.055 --> 01:36:16.435
And, and yeah, exactly.

01:36:16.435 --> 01:36:30.930
And, you know, like just, we talked about Libya a minute ago, her perseverance through COVID and through all the struggles of being a, an athlete at that level, and then, and then making a division one soccer or, or, Any, any division soccer, uh, you know, it's a grind to get there.

01:36:30.930 --> 01:36:34.041
You know, my dad, I said, he played football for Bear Bryant at Alabama.

01:36:34.051 --> 01:36:37.511
He was an all American and the stuff he did to make that happen.

01:36:37.511 --> 01:36:39.390
And so I think I got some of that from him.

01:36:40.140 --> 01:36:42.570
And, um, you know, he was, he was tough.

01:36:42.610 --> 01:36:45.320
He was a disciplinarian and, uh, thank goodness.

01:36:45.320 --> 01:36:46.451
My mom was a softie.

01:36:46.470 --> 01:36:48.860
She, she was a child psychologist and she was just.

01:36:49.041 --> 01:36:51.381
So beautiful and she's still alive.

01:36:51.381 --> 01:36:54.211
She's, she's in Dallas, um, in assisted living.

01:36:54.211 --> 01:36:59.461
She's got dementia, unfortunately, but she's, she's happy and, uh, and, and, you know, living out her life.

01:36:59.461 --> 01:37:03.690
My dad passed away, you know, right before COVID back in, in 19.

01:37:03.720 --> 01:37:09.720
And, um, you know, he, they both have had great lives and, and, you know, I feel like they raised some good sons.

01:37:10.171 --> 01:37:13.530
Let's pivot to that now, actually, the closing segments, faith, family, politics.

01:37:13.530 --> 01:37:15.791
You want to start with family since you're kind of drifting there already?

01:37:16.235 --> 01:37:18.326
Yeah, what, what, what kind of part?

01:37:18.445 --> 01:37:19.246
Uh, well one

01:37:19.246 --> 01:37:23.595
game we always, uh, do is play one word description for each of your children.

01:37:23.725 --> 01:37:24.166
Okay.

01:37:24.536 --> 01:37:26.576
So, uh, I know you've got three girls, right?

01:37:26.815 --> 01:37:27.126
Yeah.

01:37:27.235 --> 01:37:32.756
Uh, do you want to start with the eldest, give her a name, maybe an age and a one word description?

01:37:32.796 --> 01:37:34.001
Yeah, Jordan is, is, uh,

01:37:35.541 --> 01:37:36.560
Oh, happy birthday, Jordan.

01:37:36.591 --> 01:37:37.701
Happy birthday, Jordan.

01:37:37.740 --> 01:37:41.341
And, uh, she is beautifully eclectic.

01:37:42.240 --> 01:37:42.940
With a hyphen.

01:37:43.180 --> 01:37:43.621
Yes.

01:37:43.680 --> 01:37:43.940
Okay.

01:37:44.171 --> 01:37:44.421
Yeah.

01:37:44.451 --> 01:37:45.280
Get two words there.

01:37:45.350 --> 01:37:46.240
Beautifully eclectic.

01:37:46.711 --> 01:37:47.470
Uh, very unique.

01:37:47.470 --> 01:37:48.140
She's an artist.

01:37:48.161 --> 01:37:50.451
Uh, Kylie is, uh, my middle daughter.

01:37:50.451 --> 01:37:51.961
She's 24.

01:37:51.961 --> 01:37:52.980
I hope I'm not messing that up.

01:37:53.490 --> 01:37:54.770
Her birthday's coming up as well.

01:37:55.240 --> 01:37:59.801
And, uh, she is, uh, How do I describe her?

01:38:00.350 --> 01:38:02.631
She is stylishly funky.

01:38:03.001 --> 01:38:03.421
Oh.

01:38:03.430 --> 01:38:04.480
Okay, two words again.

01:38:04.541 --> 01:38:06.780
Okay, we'll, we'll stretch the rules for you Texans.

01:38:06.782 --> 01:38:09.091
I can't, I can't, yeah, I can't, I can't put them in one box.

01:38:09.650 --> 01:38:15.791
Libby, uh, Libby is, uh, like I said, she's eight, uh, no, uh, wait.

01:38:15.791 --> 01:38:15.831
She's

01:38:15.831 --> 01:38:16.600
19 now maybe?

01:38:16.661 --> 01:38:20.310
No, her birthday's on the 4th of July, and we named her Libby, kind of Liberty.

01:38:20.440 --> 01:38:20.871
Yeah, yeah.

01:38:20.871 --> 01:38:30.845
Uh, and, uh, she's 18, and, you know, she, again, she plays soccer, but, uh, Libby is, I'm going to say she's a rock.

01:38:30.845 --> 01:38:32.815
She's just, I get teared thinking about her.

01:38:32.815 --> 01:38:34.376
She's just awesome in every way.

01:38:34.496 --> 01:38:34.975
That's cool.

01:38:35.006 --> 01:38:35.296
Yeah.

01:38:35.296 --> 01:38:35.836
Yeah.

01:38:35.836 --> 01:38:48.676
Um, who's this woman that you met in college and married up full name is Elizabeth, but she goes by Lisa and uh, we met in college on the school bus that took us from our apartment all the way down to campus.

01:38:48.735 --> 01:38:49.166
Okay.

01:38:49.730 --> 01:39:01.320
And, uh, she asked to read my newspaper and, uh, and we met there briefly, but, uh, we did rendezvous one other time, like, uh, at a, on a dance floor, uh, in, you know, downtown Austin.

01:39:01.381 --> 01:39:01.701
Okay.

01:39:01.701 --> 01:39:03.890
On 6th Street, uh, prior to that.

01:39:03.921 --> 01:39:06.841
And, uh, I remember dancing with her friend.

01:39:07.105 --> 01:39:19.515
And, uh, which was interesting, but long story short, we just kind of picked up a relationship and we went jogging together and next thing you know, we're hanging out and it blossomed into a, you know, a full relationship.

01:39:19.525 --> 01:39:21.336
I think she was a little leery of me again.

01:39:22.006 --> 01:39:23.786
Uh, I was all about getting tan.

01:39:23.786 --> 01:39:24.706
I had blonde hair.

01:39:24.935 --> 01:39:26.435
I was wearing flip flops and tank tops.

01:39:26.445 --> 01:39:29.416
I was working out, you know, I can see right.

01:39:29.435 --> 01:39:30.265
Bro culture guy.

01:39:30.286 --> 01:39:30.746
Yeah.

01:39:30.746 --> 01:39:31.086
Before.

01:39:31.086 --> 01:39:31.265
Well,

01:39:31.565 --> 01:39:32.280
I was never afraid of anything.

01:39:32.780 --> 01:39:38.501
I was never a bro culture, but I looked at it and she looked at me with a skeptical eye and, and I don't blame her.

01:39:38.980 --> 01:39:40.831
I was also a little bit of a smart ass.

01:39:40.860 --> 01:39:51.091
Uh, you know, I, I was always a little cocky and, you know, I wish, I wish looking back, I knew how cocky I was and I'd take some of that back, but, but again, she persevered.

01:39:51.161 --> 01:39:55.711
She stuck it out with me and I've been, I've been hell along the way too.

01:39:55.711 --> 01:39:57.461
It didn't, we, we're coming up with

01:39:57.501 --> 01:39:58.560
just an easy transition.

01:39:58.900 --> 01:39:59.720
No, no.

01:39:59.730 --> 01:40:01.610
So, uh, you know, we made it to 30 years.

01:40:02.176 --> 01:40:04.155
And it was, thank you.

01:40:04.166 --> 01:40:04.525
Thank you.

01:40:04.525 --> 01:40:15.426
That was, that was a huge, huge moment for us because there's been a lot ups and downs, uh, in, you know, in, in, uh, raising our kids and, and having a relationship,

01:40:16.006 --> 01:40:16.246
you know,

01:40:16.246 --> 01:40:18.716
because you, you put a lot of things on hold.

01:40:19.810 --> 01:40:22.850
where your relationship with your, your spouse should be the number one thing.

01:40:22.850 --> 01:40:23.121
Right.

01:40:23.131 --> 01:40:25.220
And, but you put a lot of things, you put that on hold.

01:40:25.220 --> 01:40:25.421
Especially

01:40:25.421 --> 01:40:30.711
when you got kids chasing athletics at elite level and all these things pretty soon, that's the focus of the parents.

01:40:30.761 --> 01:40:31.770
Yeah, exactly.

01:40:31.780 --> 01:40:50.355
And, uh, so the good thing about age comes wisdom and we also are now are empty nesters and we've been working for years on, on trying to find the, you know, making sure the relationship is the, is the, You know, proper focus and, um, and we've, we're doing a much better job of that over the last decade.

01:40:50.355 --> 01:40:52.105
And, and I'm hoping we keep it going.

01:40:52.315 --> 01:40:59.695
As a child psychologist, what would she say is your most, uh, annoying tendency or childhood tendency?

01:40:59.826 --> 01:41:00.645
Oh man.

01:41:00.685 --> 01:41:01.725
I've got a lot of them.

01:41:01.765 --> 01:41:06.036
Um, because I'm an engineer, I try to fix every problem, Kurt.

01:41:06.716 --> 01:41:08.345
And I can't help myself.

01:41:08.515 --> 01:41:09.826
You know, she's hot.

01:41:09.855 --> 01:41:11.886
I've got a reason to, I got a way she can get cold.

01:41:12.006 --> 01:41:12.326
Yeah.

01:41:12.405 --> 01:41:14.655
Uh, have you seen the nail in the head thing?

01:41:15.536 --> 01:41:15.886
No.

01:41:17.445 --> 01:41:23.176
There's a, it's probably 10 years old now, but there's a girl that's like literally got a nail sticking out of her forehead.

01:41:24.485 --> 01:41:26.655
And her husband's like, well, you've got a nail.

01:41:26.786 --> 01:41:28.046
I don't need you to fix it.

01:41:28.735 --> 01:41:30.126
I just need you to listen to me.

01:41:30.126 --> 01:41:32.445
I've got this just sharp pain in my head.

01:41:32.756 --> 01:41:33.996
Well, yeah, it's cause you got it now.

01:41:34.015 --> 01:41:35.286
Don't fix it for me.

01:41:35.716 --> 01:41:37.395
Anyway, Google it sometime with your wife.

01:41:37.395 --> 01:41:38.916
You'll probably find it very humorous.

01:41:38.926 --> 01:41:41.265
That exact conversation has happened many times.

01:41:41.725 --> 01:41:42.416
Uh, and.

01:41:42.650 --> 01:41:50.371
And I've learned from her and from my daughters, it's, it's sometimes it's just about sitting with them and listening and not trying to, you know, fix anything.

01:41:50.570 --> 01:41:57.780
And I will say most of my life I've been guilty of, you know, as you're talking to somebody and you're listening to them, but you're really not listening.

01:41:57.780 --> 01:41:59.490
You're thinking about how am I going to respond to them?

01:41:59.490 --> 01:42:01.520
I've already got my answer before you finish speaking.

01:42:01.530 --> 01:42:01.831
Sure.

01:42:02.261 --> 01:42:09.490
And I did that for so long and I'm trying to slow down and just focus in and listen more and, uh, and talk less.

01:42:09.921 --> 01:42:14.881
Although today I'm talking a lot, I know that, but, um, yeah, I'd, I'd recommend that to anyone.

01:42:14.881 --> 01:42:17.980
If you can just listen more and talk less, you'll be better off.

01:42:17.980 --> 01:42:18.761
Well, and be intentional.

01:42:18.770 --> 01:42:26.220
Sounds like you guys have been looking forward to this time, even of being empty nesters and intentionally worked on your relationship.

01:42:26.555 --> 01:42:27.405
Yeah, in the lead up.

01:42:27.595 --> 01:42:28.006
Yes.

01:42:28.256 --> 01:42:38.555
I've seen a lot of relationships go south after that empty that nest empties and they're like, oh Actually, it turns out you annoy me when it's just me Yeah, usually that's the wife.

01:42:38.895 --> 01:42:39.395
Um,

01:42:39.615 --> 01:42:42.565
you know because we've been so busy on all the other stuff.

01:42:42.565 --> 01:42:45.636
We're right, right You know, we're, we're not annoyed with each other.

01:42:45.716 --> 01:42:47.716
I guess we're falling back in love again.

01:42:47.716 --> 01:42:48.095
Yeah.

01:42:48.095 --> 01:42:48.365
Yeah.

01:42:48.636 --> 01:42:50.296
That's, that's, that's the objective.

01:42:50.326 --> 01:42:50.746
Exactly.

01:42:50.786 --> 01:42:51.166
I like it.

01:42:51.515 --> 01:42:53.246
Uh, that seems like a good transition.

01:42:53.286 --> 01:43:06.155
Make the turn to politics, uh, COVID nation certainly affected your industry and you weathered through, but, uh, is there any learnings about how our world works, uh, that you've uncovered in that time?

01:43:08.560 --> 01:43:10.980
Uh, during the COVID time, especially during the COVID time.

01:43:10.980 --> 01:43:15.320
I think that's where the, the man behind the machine was a little bit exposed.

01:43:15.600 --> 01:43:16.150
Uh,

01:43:16.671 --> 01:43:17.921
yeah, that's interesting.

01:43:17.961 --> 01:43:20.400
Well, we could open up a Pandora's box in this conversation.

01:43:20.421 --> 01:43:20.860
I know.

01:43:20.900 --> 01:43:23.581
Um, uh, I will say this.

01:43:23.600 --> 01:43:26.341
I, I try to do my best to look at news.

01:43:26.820 --> 01:43:49.220
That's balanced, you know, that, uh, I, I try to check my sources and, you know, if I'm on Fox or if I'm on CNN or MSNBC or whatever it is, I'm, I'm Leary, I'm listening to it with, with skeptical, uh, skepticism, I should say, uh, uh, it's hard to do that these days and, and knowing what's good and what's not, I mean, here.

01:43:49.220 --> 01:43:49.230
I.

01:43:49.845 --> 01:43:51.586
Artificial intelligence alone,

01:43:51.765 --> 01:43:52.155
right.

01:43:52.246 --> 01:43:56.655
Uh, is changing, uh, what we're seeing, you know, the pictures and the all Totally, yeah.

01:43:56.655 --> 01:43:58.395
And, and, uh, I, well, and bought

01:43:58.395 --> 01:44:00.466
comments on different feeds and different things.

01:44:00.466 --> 01:44:01.996
You never know what's actually true.

01:44:02.176 --> 01:44:02.926
Yeah, that's true.

01:44:03.286 --> 01:44:05.895
And I, and, and I, I feel for the youth of today, right.

01:44:05.895 --> 01:44:12.935
First of all, uh, you know, I used to worry about plagiarizing in college, you know, and, and, and my papers and, and making sure I was, I didn't plagiarize.

01:44:12.940 --> 01:44:13.180
Right?

01:44:13.235 --> 01:44:13.355
Right.

01:44:13.360 --> 01:44:18.456
But, but now, I mean, uh, AI write, I mean chat, GPT and other things like that writes papers for you.

01:44:18.456 --> 01:44:19.386
And now.

01:44:19.980 --> 01:44:21.310
The teachers have their methods, right?

01:44:21.310 --> 01:44:29.581
They can figure it out, but, um, you know, that, that concerns me for this younger generation and that they, they may not have to think as critically.

01:44:29.990 --> 01:44:32.421
Right, and so many, everything becomes a black box.

01:44:32.430 --> 01:44:33.001
Well, it feels like

01:44:33.001 --> 01:44:34.911
building a foundation kind of on shifting sands.

01:44:35.036 --> 01:44:46.225
It's, if there isn't really known, knowns about knowledge stuff that we actually know because we discovered it, that we did math ourselves before we got a calculator, it seems hard to build on.

01:44:46.945 --> 01:44:47.985
Yeah, it is.

01:44:48.015 --> 01:44:55.355
Um, so, but you know, on the flip side, you could look at like, that is a whole new industry that's blossoming and it's just getting started.

01:44:55.845 --> 01:45:00.855
And maybe that's what our kids are going to be doing in the next 30, 40 years.

01:45:01.685 --> 01:45:04.536
Uh, you know, I don't know, um, you know, where that's going to go, but.

01:45:05.201 --> 01:45:10.421
How's, uh, the Texas is in the news a lot just lately on the immigration front.

01:45:10.900 --> 01:45:14.280
Um, is that make its way into Austin?

01:45:14.320 --> 01:45:17.041
Is that far enough away that it doesn't really affect you too much?

01:45:17.890 --> 01:45:19.211
Well, it impacts everyone.

01:45:19.211 --> 01:45:23.180
I mean, certainly impacting, you know, down, you know, south at the border.

01:45:23.230 --> 01:45:26.230
Uh, that's what's going on down there is challenging.

01:45:26.230 --> 01:45:36.605
And, you know, in, in, in oil and gas, a lot of that, that property down there is oil and gas heavy and the landowners down there have massive tracts of land and, and they have.

01:45:36.765 --> 01:45:44.386
We've had a lot of issues with immigrants coming across and it's very dangerous whether you know, a lot of immigrants just want food and water.

01:45:44.386 --> 01:45:44.466
Right.

01:45:44.466 --> 01:45:44.865
Right.

01:45:44.876 --> 01:45:55.841
And, and maybe they're there because somebody got them there and they shouldn't be there or then there's the other ones that are maybe running drugs that, that, you know It could be, uh, gangs, criminals, stuff like

01:45:56.451 --> 01:46:01.280
remote rig, and 20 immigrants comes up looking for some sandwiches.

01:46:01.320 --> 01:46:02.560
Like, it's a pretty scary scene.

01:46:03.081 --> 01:46:04.650
It could be, because you don't know what to expect.

01:46:04.690 --> 01:46:07.720
But, um, but it, but yeah, it's impacted all cities in Texas.

01:46:08.320 --> 01:46:13.470
But, um, but certainly down closer to the border, those cities are, are being inundated.

01:46:14.121 --> 01:46:17.451
Uh, but they're impacting lots of cities across the nation, as you know.

01:46:17.461 --> 01:46:18.001
Right, right.

01:46:18.011 --> 01:46:18.650
Yeah, Denver's,

01:46:18.650 --> 01:46:20.921
like, We're screaming here.

01:46:20.921 --> 01:46:21.650
We can't handle it.

01:46:21.740 --> 01:46:31.211
Yeah, a lot of cities are screaming, uh, uh, because from what I understand based on the numbers there's millions that have come across and, and, uh, I, I don't know that that's sustainable.

01:46:31.350 --> 01:46:32.970
Uh, but you know, I can't.

01:46:32.980 --> 01:46:33.091
Well

01:46:33.091 --> 01:46:35.551
not if you're going to feed them and let them vote.

01:46:37.131 --> 01:46:37.621
Yeah, I mean

01:46:37.671 --> 01:46:38.640
that's another issue.

01:46:38.641 --> 01:46:41.180
Uh, you know, I, I believe in immigration for sure.

01:46:41.350 --> 01:46:41.610
Yeah.

01:46:41.610 --> 01:46:46.886
And I, you know, I, the ironic thing is that legal immigration, is much more difficult.

01:46:46.956 --> 01:46:49.286
It takes much longer than it is for illegal immigration.

01:46:49.666 --> 01:46:51.595
But, you know, that's what we have.

01:46:51.595 --> 01:46:52.605
I'm not a politician.

01:46:52.605 --> 01:46:53.626
I don't make those rules.

01:46:54.326 --> 01:46:57.765
I do live in a state that's on the border and I am concerned about it.

01:46:58.405 --> 01:47:12.145
Um, but, you know, I'm, I'm hoping, you know, I do think Closed borders or secured borders are important to any nation, uh, for lots of reasons, uh, because you're not a nation unless you have a border.

01:47:12.716 --> 01:47:15.985
But, uh, but, you know, we're not the only country that's dealing with that.

01:47:15.985 --> 01:47:20.666
That's happening all over the world and, uh, it's certainly something that's going to have to be addressed.

01:47:20.685 --> 01:47:21.195
Yeah, yeah.

01:47:21.246 --> 01:47:29.440
Well, if we could get more energy into some of these nations that people are leaving, uh, Maybe they'll stay, maybe not Venezuela.

01:47:29.541 --> 01:47:30.690
They got a lot of energy already.

01:47:30.871 --> 01:47:33.850
I mean, the U S is such an attractive location for anyone.

01:47:33.850 --> 01:47:43.051
I mean, it is, it is the home of opportunity and, uh, and, and I, I really can't blame anyone wanting to immigrate here, uh, because there are, there are people who want to immigrate.

01:47:43.371 --> 01:47:47.871
Lots and lots of jobs, lots of ways to make money and, you know, that, that aren't illegal.

01:47:47.890 --> 01:47:53.201
I mean, as far as like criminality, uh, but there's, there's plenty of, plenty of jobs to be filled.

01:47:53.201 --> 01:48:03.671
There's, there's, uh, for, uh, for immigration and, you know, some hoping that they can get it under control, but still figure out a way to have immigration where it's, it's actually, we know who's

01:48:03.671 --> 01:48:04.180
coming in.

01:48:04.190 --> 01:48:05.490
Well, it could be very selective.

01:48:05.850 --> 01:48:06.280
That's what I mean.

01:48:06.291 --> 01:48:09.421
Like we could make people pay us instead of paying the cartels to come.

01:48:09.421 --> 01:48:09.961
I

01:48:09.962 --> 01:48:09.980
don't know.

01:48:10.801 --> 01:48:11.011
Yeah.

01:48:11.190 --> 01:48:11.890
Paying to get in.

01:48:12.190 --> 01:48:12.780
I understand.

01:48:12.780 --> 01:48:14.720
But I do think No, I'm not literally saying that.

01:48:14.720 --> 01:48:14.831
But

01:48:15.070 --> 01:48:26.730
honestly, like, we could be very selective and take two million of the very best, smartest, even some of them would bring wealth, uh, to our country instead of just completely not educated and no money.

01:48:27.190 --> 01:48:27.400
Yeah.

01:48:27.461 --> 01:48:28.560
And just pay the cartel.

01:48:28.890 --> 01:48:34.456
Like, I'd rather, I'd literally, like, it's almost as wasted to have them pay our government, but At least it's not the cartel.

01:48:36.025 --> 01:48:36.695
Yeah, it's true.

01:48:37.136 --> 01:48:38.305
That is one solution, Kurt.

01:48:38.305 --> 01:48:39.515
But that's your solution.

01:48:39.555 --> 01:48:41.895
I do would, I would like secure borders.

01:48:41.916 --> 01:48:42.546
Absolutely.

01:48:42.546 --> 01:48:46.015
And, but I still would like a way for people to be able to immigrate here.

01:48:46.095 --> 01:48:46.506
For sure.

01:48:46.546 --> 01:48:49.485
But, but knowing who's coming in and everybody.

01:48:49.881 --> 01:48:55.121
paying their fair share, you know, over time, you know, because you and I and others pay a lot of taxes.

01:48:55.140 --> 01:49:01.350
And, uh, I think if you're earning income in the United States, uh, enough income that, you know, you should, you should,

01:49:02.020 --> 01:49:07.230
you know, I haven't really thought about this way, but I think it's supposed to be somewhere like 8 million, uh, illegals.

01:49:07.716 --> 01:49:14.445
over the last three years or whatever, even at 10 bucks a piece, uh, that would be 80 million.

01:49:14.626 --> 01:49:18.485
So you could build a wall pretty quickly if you just taxed a little bit.

01:49:18.945 --> 01:49:19.926
Anyway, I'm digressing.

01:49:20.296 --> 01:49:21.855
Um, and we're not going to solve it.

01:49:21.855 --> 01:49:25.336
I do have to wrap up because I'm shooting bow and arrows with some friends this evening.

01:49:25.895 --> 01:49:26.685
Um, I am.

01:49:26.685 --> 01:49:27.756
Yeah, it's been a little while.

01:49:27.945 --> 01:49:31.496
It's a nice evening to do that before I let you get off the politics segment.

01:49:31.496 --> 01:49:33.225
Uh, who do you like in November?

01:49:35.411 --> 01:49:41.961
Well, I don't know, uh, I will say, I'm, I'm a little leery that the election will go off as planned.

01:49:42.070 --> 01:49:42.451
Yeah, yeah.

01:49:42.480 --> 01:49:43.610
Uh, uh.

01:49:43.621 --> 01:49:45.310
I think it's highly unlikely that it's Trump v.

01:49:45.331 --> 01:49:47.091
Biden in November.

01:49:47.480 --> 01:49:50.390
Yeah, I, I don't know what's gonna go down, um, I've.

01:49:50.451 --> 01:49:52.921
Oh, you're thinking like riots or something more crazy.

01:49:52.990 --> 01:49:53.730
Oh, I don't know.

01:49:53.730 --> 01:49:54.280
World War III.

01:49:54.371 --> 01:49:58.371
I, I don't know, um, well, there's a lot of bad things going on in the world right now.

01:49:58.421 --> 01:49:58.671
Yeah, yeah.

01:49:58.671 --> 01:50:00.820
And, you know, with what's going on in Iran this week.

01:50:00.820 --> 01:50:00.881
Trump's

01:50:00.881 --> 01:50:03.570
announced that, uh, Ukraine is gonna be a part of NATO soon.

01:50:04.850 --> 01:50:06.541
That's why your oil prices are going up today.

01:50:06.551 --> 01:50:07.220
If you didn't notice.

01:50:07.270 --> 01:50:07.520
Yeah.

01:50:07.560 --> 01:50:07.881
Yeah.

01:50:07.911 --> 01:50:13.400
Um, there's a lot of, a lot of things going around in the world that are unrest, but you know, so what's going to happen here?

01:50:13.961 --> 01:50:15.291
That's a real good question.

01:50:15.320 --> 01:50:20.591
Um, you know, our, our political system is set up such that it's not, you know, just the popular vote, right.

01:50:21.081 --> 01:50:22.211
Uh, that wins elections.

01:50:22.261 --> 01:50:25.400
Uh, so, uh, you got the electoral college you have to go through.

01:50:25.400 --> 01:50:28.350
And so, uh, you, you've got to earn your delegates.

01:50:28.350 --> 01:50:31.980
And so it's the swing States that'll make the difference again, just like before.

01:50:32.070 --> 01:50:32.310
Yeah.

01:50:32.591 --> 01:50:36.905
And, um, I really don't know what to expect from those swing states, Kurt.

01:50:37.145 --> 01:50:39.546
Um, what do you expect from those swing states?

01:50:40.166 --> 01:50:47.020
Um, you know, I think Trump's, if Trump doesn't get, Killed or put in prison before November.

01:50:47.020 --> 01:51:04.511
I think he's got it with, with the RFK effect, pulling 10, 12, 15%, twice as many Democrats as Republicans and Biden being so obviously mentally compromised, uh, I just don't see how the electoral college could go another way.

01:51:05.336 --> 01:51:05.636
Yeah.

01:51:05.945 --> 01:51:10.956
Um, cause I don't think Kennedy's got enough horseradish to actually get delegates.

01:51:11.595 --> 01:51:13.256
Um, it would change the math.

01:51:13.595 --> 01:51:17.756
You know, if he could get up into 20 percent and get some delegates in some places, that would change the math a lot.

01:51:18.126 --> 01:51:18.395
Yeah.

01:51:18.475 --> 01:51:23.845
Um, but probably if he survives through to November, uh, Trump will be

01:51:26.126 --> 01:51:28.235
Well, we got six months till we find that out.

01:51:28.235 --> 01:51:30.605
And a lot of things can happen during that time.

01:51:30.786 --> 01:51:34.216
Um, I just like predicting oil and gas prices.

01:51:34.326 --> 01:51:37.216
I've given up predicting elections in America or anywhere.

01:51:37.746 --> 01:51:48.265
Uh, so, uh, I'm not going to answer that, but, uh, I think it'll end up being closer than anyone, you know, thought, but I don't know which way it'll go.

01:51:48.336 --> 01:51:48.685
Yeah.

01:51:49.365 --> 01:51:49.546
Yeah.

01:51:49.546 --> 01:51:50.315
All depends.

01:51:50.555 --> 01:51:53.145
Uh, by the way, you know what little old ladies tastes like?

01:51:54.655 --> 01:51:55.345
Depends.

01:51:55.416 --> 01:51:55.826
Nice.

01:51:57.546 --> 01:52:00.655
So let's go, let's hit your loco experience, Todd.

01:52:01.155 --> 01:52:05.765
What's that craziest experience of your lifetime that you're willing to share?

01:52:05.975 --> 01:52:08.395
Maybe you shared falling out of a tree from 40 feet high.

01:52:08.395 --> 01:52:09.395
That was pretty crazy.

01:52:09.506 --> 01:52:09.876
I did.

01:52:09.876 --> 01:52:11.945
I will say I thought about this.

01:52:12.140 --> 01:52:16.961
It actually was here in Colorado, uh, back six, seven, eight years ago.

01:52:17.041 --> 01:52:18.070
Oh, longer than that.

01:52:18.072 --> 01:52:20.270
I think Libby was about four or five.

01:52:20.310 --> 01:52:25.211
Uh, we went river rafting down in Buena Vista with river runners.

01:52:25.930 --> 01:52:29.180
And we went there expecting a class one to two.

01:52:29.395 --> 01:52:38.956
And that evening they opened the floodgates and by the time we got there, it was rolling over 4, 000 and it was, it was just, it was crazy.

01:52:38.985 --> 01:52:42.886
Now, we could see that, but being novices, we didn't know.

01:52:42.895 --> 01:52:43.166
Right.

01:52:43.605 --> 01:52:44.435
I'm trusting you guys.

01:52:44.466 --> 01:52:46.636
And they said, no, no, no, we can, we can do this.

01:52:47.145 --> 01:52:50.565
And, uh, and we did, it was a fantastic, uh, raft ride.

01:52:50.576 --> 01:52:52.706
And then we got to a point called the toilet bowl.

01:52:53.036 --> 01:52:53.145
Okay.

01:52:53.256 --> 01:52:54.605
I think it's also called, uh.

01:52:54.966 --> 01:52:55.706
I think it's famous.

01:52:55.706 --> 01:52:56.126
Yeah.

01:52:56.136 --> 01:52:57.166
It's also called the suckle.

01:52:57.716 --> 01:53:03.786
And what you do is you pull off to the side and you go up on this cliff and you look down and you watch people go past it.

01:53:03.805 --> 01:53:11.206
And it's this, you know, this swirling vortex in the middle of the river and you have to push hard left.

01:53:11.546 --> 01:53:11.966
Okay.

01:53:11.996 --> 01:53:17.775
And everybody has to push hard left and you got to be a foot from the wall on the left, otherwise it sucks you in.

01:53:17.775 --> 01:53:18.905
And so left, left, left.

01:53:19.435 --> 01:53:20.246
So we did that.

01:53:20.246 --> 01:53:29.536
And, and, uh, now Libby, I wish I can remember, let's just say she's five and my other daughters are there, my wife's there and, and it's the, uh, five,

01:53:29.536 --> 01:53:31.746
nine and 12 or something like that.

01:53:31.746 --> 01:53:32.055
Whatever.

01:53:32.055 --> 01:53:32.145
We

01:53:32.145 --> 01:53:38.246
got her feet locked in a little bit, but, uh, so we, we, we hit it and we're just paddling hard, paddling hard as we can.

01:53:38.746 --> 01:53:41.136
And we missed it by about a foot.

01:53:41.470 --> 01:53:43.480
And it sucked us right in, in there.

01:53:43.490 --> 01:53:48.701
And as soon as it spun us like that, it shot me, Libby, and Jordan off.

01:53:48.820 --> 01:53:49.331
Oh boy.

01:53:49.610 --> 01:53:50.970
And we're going down the river.

01:53:50.971 --> 01:53:52.091
But you're clear of the sucker at least.

01:53:52.100 --> 01:53:52.671
We're clear.

01:53:52.930 --> 01:53:57.291
My wife and Kylie and the guide are stuck in there and the raft's up like this.

01:53:57.381 --> 01:53:57.820
Oh boy.

01:53:58.110 --> 01:54:03.150
And you can see, see them up high and, and, and then they were spun down in it.

01:54:03.341 --> 01:54:03.841
Right.

01:54:03.881 --> 01:54:04.570
Meanwhile.

01:54:04.945 --> 01:54:11.685
Uh, Jordan, I'm lo I I see my my girls in the water there, and we're just rushing down the summer.

01:54:12.015 --> 01:54:12.155
Right.

01:54:12.435 --> 01:54:12.855
Calling S.

01:54:13.466 --> 01:54:24.655
And I see Jordan go get Libby and Libby, she's wearing, she must be two feet out of the water because this, she's so tiny and this, this vest was so, and so she was fine.

01:54:24.685 --> 01:54:26.815
And, uh, and I'm looking around for paddles.

01:54:26.815 --> 01:54:29.386
I'm like trying, just being the engineer, I got to get the paddles.

01:54:29.836 --> 01:54:34.836
Anyway, we, we ended up going downstream and, and there was a spot to stop, not a safe place.

01:54:35.466 --> 01:54:39.015
Meanwhile, they bust loose out of the, you know, out of the vortex there.

01:54:39.145 --> 01:54:39.605
Okay.

01:54:39.786 --> 01:54:42.706
And they come, they come down the river and.

01:54:42.980 --> 01:54:46.051
I can, I can already feel my wife's icy stare.

01:54:48.381 --> 01:54:51.001
But we were all soaking wet and I, it was cold.

01:54:51.011 --> 01:54:52.520
I mean, this is June, like June 6th.

01:54:52.520 --> 01:54:52.990
Right, right.

01:54:53.030 --> 01:54:54.751
That water was snow, not very long ago.

01:54:55.496 --> 01:55:09.586
And, and they, they pull up there and we're all there, all of us together and, you know, my wife's eyes, the guide's eyes were just like, I think he was embarrassed because he was the guy that, you know, put people in the water and the other guides are looking at him like, you're a loser.

01:55:10.105 --> 01:55:13.095
And, and he didn't make eye contact the rest of the trip.

01:55:13.095 --> 01:55:16.246
I think he was embarrassed or mad or because we didn't pull hard enough.

01:55:16.365 --> 01:55:16.695
Right.

01:55:17.171 --> 01:55:22.631
But my wife was just so, so angry at that point and scared.

01:55:22.631 --> 01:55:24.951
And obviously, I mean, we were in the water.

01:55:24.951 --> 01:55:26.301
I mean, her loved ones are in the water.

01:55:26.990 --> 01:55:31.201
And the funny thing is that the three of us that were in the water, we went up streets.

01:55:31.570 --> 01:55:38.030
It was like the most exhilarating thing of our lives, but we weren't stuck in that dang vortex, possibly drowning and all that.

01:55:38.030 --> 01:55:39.740
So it was two different perspectives.

01:55:40.131 --> 01:55:45.140
And, uh, but we ended up having to finish that trip out to get further downstream to meet the bus.

01:55:45.975 --> 01:55:47.716
And, and she didn't really want to do it, but we did.

01:55:47.716 --> 01:55:48.945
It was pretty easy the rest of the way.

01:55:48.945 --> 01:55:53.996
And, you know, it was the conversation on the bus ride back.

01:55:54.006 --> 01:55:56.515
It was like, part of it's like, that was the greatest thing we ever did.

01:55:56.725 --> 01:55:59.786
And it was clear we were never going to go do it again as a family.

01:56:00.416 --> 01:56:03.025
And we didn't, uh, but we probably would.

01:56:03.055 --> 01:56:11.905
But, you know, when, when it goes from, you know, less than a thousand cubic feet per minute to 4, 000, just come back another day, you know, is my recommendation.

01:56:11.905 --> 01:56:14.935
But anyway, long story there, but that, that was a, well, I can just

01:56:14.935 --> 01:56:24.801
imagine like, Floating down this stream and you're watching your family members like twisting around in this raft wondering You know, where does the vortex go to on the bottom, right?

01:56:25.051 --> 01:56:25.280
Yeah.

01:56:25.280 --> 01:56:33.490
And, and what, you know, in those moments where you're just scared to death, your, your adrenaline kicks in, you know, again, we're flowing in a, in a, on a river going really fast.

01:56:33.490 --> 01:56:37.171
Your adrenaline kicks in and you're, you don't think like you would normally.

01:56:37.171 --> 01:56:41.961
And, you know, first we're thinking about making sure we're all safe and then like, we can't do anything about them.

01:56:41.961 --> 01:56:42.890
That guide's got them.

01:56:43.390 --> 01:56:44.881
And luckily he did his thing.

01:56:44.890 --> 01:56:46.440
He knew how to get out of that and it worked out.

01:56:46.470 --> 01:56:46.730
And.

01:56:47.166 --> 01:56:50.845
Uh, that's why you pay professionals and don't, people don't do this at home by yourself.

01:56:50.855 --> 01:56:51.006
For

01:56:51.006 --> 01:56:51.435
sure.

01:56:51.436 --> 01:56:52.386
Yeah.

01:56:52.386 --> 01:56:52.555
Yeah.

01:56:52.555 --> 01:56:55.225
It was a great moment, but it was also a learning, learning lesson.

01:56:55.305 --> 01:56:55.496
Yeah.

01:56:55.496 --> 01:56:55.805
Yeah.

01:56:55.845 --> 01:56:56.685
Respect the river.

01:56:57.105 --> 01:56:57.735
Respect that river.

01:56:57.735 --> 01:56:58.136
Yes, sir.

01:56:58.235 --> 01:56:58.695
For sure.

01:56:59.006 --> 01:57:04.765
Well, um, if anybody needs their oil wells valued, uh, should they just find you on the LinkedIn?

01:57:05.036 --> 01:57:05.945
Is that the best way?

01:57:06.036 --> 01:57:06.275
You can

01:57:06.286 --> 01:57:08.365
find Todd Brooker on LinkedIn.

01:57:08.395 --> 01:57:12.176
Uh, you can look up Collie Gillespie at www.

01:57:12.176 --> 01:57:13.025
cgus.

01:57:13.025 --> 01:57:13.355
com.

01:57:13.356 --> 01:57:14.895
Um, and, um.

01:57:15.265 --> 01:57:16.036
I would love to help.

01:57:16.036 --> 01:57:17.735
And I can't thank you enough, Kurt.

01:57:17.735 --> 01:57:19.555
It's been nice hanging out with you.

01:57:19.586 --> 01:57:20.086
Thanks for sharing

01:57:20.086 --> 01:57:23.735
a bunch of, uh, good back behind the curtain knowledge about the oil industry.

01:57:24.115 --> 01:57:24.935
I'm glad to do it.

01:57:24.935 --> 01:57:27.506
And you took me a few places I don't normally go on talking.

01:57:27.506 --> 01:57:29.586
So hopefully I didn't offend anyone, but, uh,

01:57:29.796 --> 01:57:30.515
I'll let you do that.

01:57:30.565 --> 01:57:33.576
I'm disappointed that you didn't actually see you next time, Todd.

01:57:34.626 --> 01:57:35.025
Take care.

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EXPERIENCE 73 | Ginger Graham, Owner of Ginger and Baker
EXPERIENCE 73 | Ginger Graham, Owner of Ginger and Baker
EXPERIENCE 103 | Becky Allsup, Designing a Team & Building an Integrated Enterprise
EXPERIENCE 103 | Becky Allsup, Designing a Team & Building an Integrated Enterp…
EXPERIENCE 91 | Mandy Mullen at the Intersection of Fitness & Community
EXPERIENCE 91 | Mandy Mullen at the Intersection of Fitness & Community