EXPERIENCE 152 | Delivering HR Expertise to the Small Business Community with Tami Parker, Founder and CEO of UNIcycle Business Consulting
Tami Parker had a long career in corporate HR, but 7 years ago, with a leap of faith and a supportive husband, she founded UNIcycle Business Consulting. As with most of us, her early years were spent staying alive financially and doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that, but her growing firm has found its sweet spot as an off-site HR department for our region's small business enterprises. It’s often expensive for small businesses to have an HR expert on the team, so the office manager or the owner or the bookkeeper do the best they can - which can sometimes also be expensive! Tami and her team help their clients do everything HR, from creating employee handbooks and onboarding processes, to placing ads and vetting candidates from Indeed and other platforms, all on a contract basis based on team size!
At present time, our employee handbook at LoCo Think Tank is a 3-page Google document - which is about 3 pages more robust than it was a year ago! As one of those small business owners who tries to do his best - but knows he’s got some gaps - this was a fun conversation ranging from the basics of a sound onboarding process to open discussion around recent DEI controversies to the biggest pitfalls that employers MUST avoid. Tami was recommended to the show by a couple of my favorite members - her clients - and I’m excited to share my conversation with Tami Parker, Founder and CEO of UNIcycle Business Consulting.
The LoCo Experience Podcast is sponsored by: Logistics Co-op | https://logisticscoop.com/
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Music By: A Brother's Fountain
Tammy Parker had a long career in corporate HR, but seven years ago, with a leap of faith and a supportive husband, she founded Unicycle Business Consulting. As with most of us, her early years were spent staying alive financially, doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that, but her growing firm has found its sweet spot. As an off site HR department for our region's small business enterprises. It's often expensive for small businesses to have an HR expert on the team, so the office manager or the owner or the bookkeeper do the best they can, which can sometimes also be expensive. Tammy and her team help their clients do everything HR from creating employee handbooks and onboarding processes to placing ads and vetting candidates from Indeed and other platforms all on a contract basis based on team size. At present time, our employee handbook at local think tank is a three page Google document. Which is about three pages more robust than it was a year ago. As one of those small business owners who tries to do his best, but knows he's got some gaps. This was a fun conversation ranging from the basics of a sound onboarding process, to open discussion around recent DEI controversies, to the biggest pitfalls that employers must avoid. Tammy was recommended to the show by a couple of my favorite members, her clients, and I'm excited to share my conversation with Tammy Parker, founder and CEO of Unicycle Business Consulting. Welcome back to the Loco Experience podcast. My guest today is Tammy Parker, the founder, CEO of Unicycle Business Consulting. So uh, why don't you just start us off for those that aren't familiar, uh, describe Unicycle for us. Oh, okay. What do you all do? So we are offsite human resources support for small businesses, primarily in Northern Colorado. We do have a few clients out of state, um, one client in Denver area, but mostly up here in the local area. So you advise them on their HR? We do, but we're, we're also pretty hands on, you know, basically if an HR department does it in a corporate. Environment, which is where I came from. Yeah, we do it also everything from background checks to placing post ads on LinkedIn Indeed, whatever. Yeah, we do the full recruiting process We partner with our clients part of the you unicycle is the you and I Um, are capitalized because you, the business owner and I partner together to take care of all these things. I'm guessing that because it's one of the hardest things to learn, like most businesses start with a craftsman, a tradesman, a really good mechanic or HVAC person or whatever. And they find a lot of hiccups along the way of building a team. Uh, and so they're like, I'm not that great at this. Will you help me? Yeah. You know, how do customers decide to find you? Well. Honestly, 2020 frightened a lot of people in the small business, and of course the business really took off after that change, but I joke that I'm the only person who went into business to deal with HR. Right. You know. Yeah, you guys in bookkeeping businesses, it's like, thank you for, or maid service agencies, I suppose, doing all these things that I don't want to do. Yes. And, um. And I'm scared to mess up. Yeah. Well, there are serious financial and legal ramifications to messing this up, right? Yeah. Yeah. And when I'm talking with small business owners, more often than not, I'm telling them that's okay to say. You can say that. You know, what we have to do is document everything and be consistent and, and yeah, I come in and deal with hard situations too, though. Oh, even in that mediation kind of conversation. So it's not the big boss man necessarily. It's somebody that's representing the company's interests. Yes. As a contractor, virtually. So talk to me about, before we talk about your team and how you spread the work around, talk to me about your customers. So they're small, is it not, I mean, obviously they have employees, right? So it's not self employees, but it's probably the five to 50 mostly in that range? Mostly, actually, yes. Over 50, they can kind of afford an HR position? person more full time y? Yes, and it depends on how many of their HR ducks they have in a row. At 50, there's a tipping point at 50 employees as far as like, um, regulations you have to follow and things like that with the federal government, FMLA. I've heard of like, I've heard of Um, and then again, there's another tipping point at a hundred employees. There's more regulations that come in. So, um, I do have a. two clients that I support. One of them, we have hired, um, full time HR for them. Um, and they have 55 employees, but I still support them in that their HR person has, has unicycle as a backup. Like Timmy, what do I need to know? You're their back office and 20 years of experience when that company couldn't afford 32 years of experience. Yeah. Just you? No. That's me. No, that's me. You're not old enough to have 30 years of experience. Well, yeah. The baby's turning 30 this year. Okay. All right. All right. Well, that's evidence, I suppose. Yes. That's true. Yeah. 32 years for me. Wow. That's great. Yeah. Um, how many in corporate HR? Uh, 26. Okay. In corporate HR. So those are the rarer ones, though. The bigger, it's probably a lot of 10s and 20s and 30s. Yes. Employee companies. Yes. Lots of 10 to 50s. 15 even companies work with us and we, you know, we do advise, but we're also available to the employees 24 seven. If they want to talk to HR, they can talk to HR and your HR and I'm it. How does that work as far as like, uh, Compliance or, you know, employee files and things. Do you just kind of set that up with your company partners in a way? That's most of them have an office manager or a bookkeeper role in house that does, as I said, was also the HR, but then they were like, I'm not an HR person. Yeah. Your bookkeeper knows QuickBooks. She does not know HR. I mean, even Googling or. Using, there's lots of online services where you basically have a website and a platform that you can use as a small business owner to, you know, Google or to search HR issues and compliance. Um, even that is a little, you know, scary to me as a professional because I know the words to Google, you don't. Right, right. So. Well, and we might. Google what we hope is the right answer and find some Yahoo that says that's the right answer out there, but it's a specific Yahoo that is just a Yahoo. That's correct. Yeah, so. Fair. Um, so, yeah, I do. So how do you bill and charge and stuff? Is it, is it like a retainery kind of thing? And as needs change and scale, you change that? Or like it seems awkward. Nope, we have a, we have an annual contract. Okay. Um, and it's based on number of employees. Okay. And we know that onboarding a client, the first quarter's very busy, you know Right. Employee file audits. We go to the site, we audit the employee files. We, you know, get everything in order and take things out that we don't need and pass employee files. We kind of just file away, like we have to keep them, um, five years. But we have, um. We, we go see everything internally as well. Like we go on site. We don't spend a ton of time on site, but we do go on site when we're needed. To really understand it. Yeah. And to get to know the team, introduce ourselves, make ourselves available, things like that. Go ahead. I would, well, like some companies with 20 employees have had, you know, 16 of those employees have been around for more than five years and the other ones rotate slowly and other companies with 20 employees have. None. Five old people and everybody else just rotates through. Absolutely. You know, and they're always hiring for whatever reason. Absolutely, yeah. Um, so you have to charge a lot more for that though, right? No, I don't. No, I don't. It's just, you know, a stock price, so. Yeah. So that's, what I'm hearing is if you're a really challenging HR case, then you should definitely put. Yeah. Maybe I need to re evaluate that. Um. No, because, look, here's the thing, there are going to be months when our client hardly needs us. You know, the first quarter, very intense, um, I'm going to take the business owner's time a bit. I'm going to say, I need a monthly check in on the calendar so you and I can go, this is where we're at because they get in the weeds. They're running a business and even finishing up a handbook. Which, my handbook starts at 32 pages. Oh, wow. Um, and grows from there. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, most of the time, ours is basically a two page Google document right now, gonna recommend that you update your handbook, which is a big upgrade from where it was a year ago. For sure. Um, and, and so, you know, a handbook even just the business owners generally know the answers or they're not sure how to answer some of the questions. And so that, you know, a conversation with me or someone on my team and we hash that out, then we just plug in the answers, right? But that takes time. Right. Um, getting, getting really incorporated with your bookkeeper slash office manager because they're going to do the I 9 on day one and things. I can't be at every employee's day one. Right, right. Um, but, I'm going to have an onboarding checklist, I'm going to have an onboarding plan for them. Well, and you're devouring hiring plans and job descriptions with and for them and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Um, I'm assuming you started this as kind of a me business and then you've overflown, overflowed yourself and added to your team. Uh, do you want to talk about that journey a little bit? Oh yeah. So. And when did you start, by the way? Uh, 2007. 2007. Oh wow, okay, so you've been around longer than I realized. I'm so sorry. Seventeen. Seventeen, I apologize. Seventeen. Okay, okay, I thought so. Yeah, no, sorry. Uh, looking at new homeowner's insurance to buy a house in 2007, and that number's been in front of me today. I apologize. Don't worry. For the mistake. Um, so I'm working in corporate America doing HR. I have three friends who own small businesses here in Fort Collins. Okay. And. They were always bugging you. Yes. Tammy. Tammy, how do I handle this? How do I, you know, I need to talk to my receptionist. It was two law firms and a psychiatrist. Okay. In town. Yeah, yeah. And, um, one of them said, one, one law firm said, could you come do interviews with me? She said, I'm really struggling. I didn't learn how to conduct an interview or how to identify talent and, and cause she was having some turn in her firm and, and so we scheduled her interviews for Friday afternoons at three o'clock a couple of weeks in a row. And I just showed up and conducted interviews, which I've done. For 26 years at that point. Sure. And we would go straight to the Rio patio on afterwards and have, and have happy hour. Yeah. And break it down. Sure. And then one over margaritas one day she said, when are you gonna charge me for this work? right. You should be charging me. And you know, my queso and margarita was, I thought my compensation in that moment. But, um, eight months later I had put together a business plan and done some things financially and I quit my corporate job. Yeah. That's exciting. Thanks. Yeah. It's, uh, I mean, only a few people, like, I don't know what your corporate job was, but probably high five, low six figures, good bennies, great insurance. All the bennies, all the paid time off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I had been enrolled for a long time, so my vacation package was, you know, good sized. Right, right. All the, all the good stuff. All that stuff. Yeah. But why? Why did I leave? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Corporate America taught me a great many things, including things I don't want to do for a living. Fair. Yeah. Um, just being kind of a slave to the machine a little bit. Absolutely. Having to deal with everybody that you're Forced to deal with when you're that person like yourself, you can fire. How many clients have you fired so far? Um, well, I fired three last year and it was my first year to have Full time staff with me and I think I kind of freaked them out a little bit Like nope, I've decided we're not working with this person anymore and they're kind of Paused. Yeah. They're like, and I was like, guys, that's my concern, not your concern. Right. You can still pay us next month, right? Yes. Yes, I can. so, yeah. Well, it's one of the, it's actually one of the, probably a seminal moment in most. Business owners. I agree. Careers, especially in the consulting classes of any sorts is, you know, you're so desperate to just have enough dollars to put bread on the table. The first three years, yeah, you're just saying yes to every Right. Yahoo. Everybody who shows up who wants your help. You're like, sure, I can help, because I can. I know I can, um, but not everybody, you know, wants to follow the rules. So let's talk about that, like who are your best clients and who don't make good fits for you? Yeah. My best clients are people who want to do the right thing. The intention needs to be there. And um, I have met. A couple business owners who basically wanted to hire me to tell them how to break the rules. Right. They get away with it. Yeah, and I'm not going to do that. Um, you know, I have my own integrity to worry about as well. But, um, you know, we can fire that person because they're not meeting expectations to their job. Not because blank, you know, so my clients want, want to do what's right, um, and they need to appreciate really frank conversation. I talk a lot about business reality versus business theory. I think so many books and, and we read them, I read them good books, right? But also, sometimes I feel like, okay, that's business theory. How is this going to play out in a small business? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a difference between applied economics and theory economics, right? It never works out quite like the theory people think. So I talk a lot about business reality. And, you know, um, I do think employers get afraid of things like accommodations and things like that. Right. Well, the expectations are different for you if you're smaller. Right. And if you're big. For sure. Yep. Definitely. And you have to show that you've made a good effort. You don't have to, you know, you don't need to install some. Or move your offices or something big like that, that's not feasible for a small business. Yeah. Um, can we, uh, jump onto some like, what are the hot topic things that small businesses goof up? Maybe in Colorado, is there new things? Just the, I mean, there's new things every year and sometimes every June as well. Okay. Is that like the, when the legislative stuff takes effect kind of stuff? Yes. Yeah. And for example, FAMLI started. That's the Family Medical Lead Act. Yeah, started. Employees can use it this month for the first time. Oh, is that right? Okay. Yeah. We started paying for it last January. Yeah. And, um, that's just one of the new things, you know, that we need to Do you want to describe that for listeners who don't really know what that is? Um, every Colorado W 2 employee has extended family medical leave where they can be paid a portion of their salary from the state. Oh, wow. Um, so this does not mean, this law does not mean you have to give an employee 12 weeks of paid leave where you have to pay that leave. Okay. You do have to give them up to 12 weeks of job protected leave. Okay. But they get the money from the state because we've been contributing to it since last January. Oh, is that right? Yes. I didn't realize that. Yes. I knew I had to Keep somebody on for 12 weeks if they, you know, had a Yes, which is, to me, that's the hard part. Which I would have probably tried to do, but it's definitely can be challenging. Yeah, I've had staff out for, you know, two and a half weeks on mission trips and things, and it's like, oh, I'm pretty, pretty handicapped when we got a three legged stool and missing one leg. Yeah, you know, I'm actively talking with my clients about if somebody on their team needs this leave for the whole time, and they can take it intermittently or all at once. depending on the medical reasons, um, you know, what do we have to do to fill their spot? Because when you're talking about skilled people, you know, um, let's say a bookkeeping firm that has eight employees. Each employee has 20 accounts they service. That one bookkeeper being gone for 12 weeks is going to cripple that business like they're going to have to figure out what to do with those 20 accounts, right? So, are there people you know in the business who would want some extra work to fill in that you trust them? Are they available? Definitely not during tax season. Not during Q1. Right. Exactly. Absolutely. Talent, excess talent just floating around in the economy today, you know, even if somebody could be a bookkeeper Yes, they're got a job as an office manager somewhere or or something I mean when you're talking about a bookkeeping firm like their level of bookkeeping is higher than the average office manager Right, right quick books. Right, right knowledge. So yeah, but people get displaced and make changes Right, yeah So Uh, so some portion, whatever, 50, 60, 70 percent or something of their salary gets covered just straight by the state. It doesn't even cost the employer anything. That's correct. But they're paying into it as part of our payroll taxes. Yes. Yes. So if you have 10 or under employees, the employees contributing half of a percentage point through your payroll services should be happening automatically. I'm assuming Gusto's got it taken care of for me. Gusto does have it taken care of. I do. I use Gusto as well because it's a Colorado based company. Yeah. That's why I chose it. And if you have more than 10 employees, the employer has to put in that half percent and the employee puts in half percent. Oh, is that right? But it just looked like a different tax on our pay stubs. Yeah, yeah. Um, and all payroll services automatically made you set this up. Makes sense. So, yeah. But we don't have to pay those wages. I have met Business owners who are just like, this FMLI thing, I can't sustain that, I can't do that. They thought that they were required to also, like, keep sending that person a paycheck during that time. Right. And they don't. That's fascinating. Yeah. What, uh, what else are the big topics out there? Is there anything new coming this June? This June, no, not to my knowledge off the top of my head, but, but I'd have to go double check. I have a couple sources that keep me on top of the news that way, like SHRM, um, SHRM is pretty well known. Yeah. I'm a member of SHRM and certified with them and things like that. So I count on them a great deal, but I also get all kinds of government. newsletters, even just Larimer County and Weld County and all kinds of things. Cause of course, 2020 and 2021, I had to really stay on top of different regulations in different places. Yeah. Yeah. Um, the next thing I wanted to ask about is, is Traps, and I want to have you walk us through best practices too, but what are some traps? Like what are some real situations to avoid if you're a business leader listening to this or somebody that's in responsible for hiring or different things like don't make this mistake. You will get in trouble. Yeah. So, um, this, I feel like I don't mean to say the obvious, but you cannot ask people their age. You cannot ask them, um, If they're thinking about getting pregnant? Yes. I know that one. I've heard that one. One of the new ones is the, uh, a protected class is now marital status. That changed in Colorado January 1st. Oh, interesting. So, you cannot ask them about their marital status in the hiring process. Interesting. And I have had people say to me, I don't want, I really liked that little gal, but she's in her twenties. She's going to need her wedding suit. She said she's not married. She, you know, and I was like, well, we don't know if she's in a relationship. We don't know. And they're like, well, she's going to need time off for her wedding and time off for her pregnancies. So we're going to go with this person instead. That's illegal. You can't do that. Yeah. Also, you don't know. And can you do that as part of the hiring process, or not as part of the hiring process, but like, for example, Alma just got married a year ago. Um, she plans and thinks that she wants to work three, four, five years before starting a family. Sure. And, and I've expressed my hopes that, you know, maybe she would. Uh, and so I can have that kind of a dialogue with her and stuff. It's just not part of the hiring or an employment decision. You can't have those conversations around employment decisions, like promotions, right? Like, Oh, I'm going to give you a promotion to operations manager. If you're sure it's going to be at least two years before you have a baby. Yeah, that would be illegal. Yeah. But you can, once people are your employee, you can talk with them about all kinds of things in a way to, how can we support that when it comes, when it shows up, right? Yeah. Yeah. I try to be a little proactive. Absolutely. And sometimes I realize that, you know, like, obviously I didn't talk to her about, you Her wedding plans when we were hiring her in the first place, but anyway, okay, so that's a obvious trap Yeah, be careful of that. Please also know I have I have felt small business employers panic a bit when their employee mentions any disability or accommodation Because they assume big things Right. You know, I had a, I had a dentist's office that was in the second floor of a older building here in Fort Collins that didn't have, um, Oh, right. No elevator. No elevator. Yeah. It was not ADA compliant, um, this building and it was old enough that it didn't have to be. Right. You know, cause lots of buildings have to upgrade. And they didn't do a remodel or nothing that would have triggered an automatic. That's correct. Yeah. But this would have been a very expensive thing for them to overcome. Right, right, right. And we were hiring for them, uh, an office manager. And I always send my job links out to the Department of Vocational Rehab, which helps people with disabilities find jobs. Um, and this employer went, no, don't send my job there. I can't afford to put in elevators and stuff in this building. And I was like, no, no, that would not be a reasonable accommodation for such a small business. And she was like, there's a test there kind of, right? Yeah. And she's like, well, and I can't move. Right. My building. You know, I don't want to move my office. Right. Of course. And I was like, no, no, that just because we might interview somebody with a disability does not mean we're facing that or that we would be forced to do that either. So we actually hired for her from somebody from DVR who had had a bad closed brain injury. This person was a CPA before their. closed brain injury. They could no longer be a CPA. Right. But they could be an office manager and do QuickBooks. Hmm. You know, there was some oversight. That's correct. Yeah. They're, they're just capacity to do the really tough taxi. All of that changing stuff was no longer there for them. Yeah. She did need an accommodation. Um, because of her closed brain injury, she would get headaches from bright lights. So we turned off the overhead lights in her office and bought her a lamp. And that was the accommodation. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I think, you know, don't panic when you hear somebody discuss a disability or an accommodation. Um, you don't have to, you know, do big expensive things that would literally cripple your bottom line. Fair. That's, it has to be reasonable based on the size of the business. Gotcha. And how does it, is that a test? Like, is it a percentage thing of revenues or it's more? Um, no, it's not. Would the common man think this is reasonable? My government is not that clear. Well, that keeps a lot of people in jobs. So, um, I want to, we'll get into kind of the journey of, of you growing your team and stuff, uh, in a short bit, but I want to stay on some hot topics. Please. Uh, talk to me about like diversity in hiring and. Most recently, well, in, like, Boeing, uh, and, uh, what was it, they added, uh, two things to the three main things, or whatever. Yeah, I mean for their executives and stuff and people are like some people like Elon Musk is like, yeah Do we want self safe airlines or do do we want diversity to be represented? Blacks or whatever just sure. Well, you know, one of the things I talk about around DEI is again. This is business reality Yeah, northern Colorado is not a terribly diverse space. It's hard to find. That's color Even if you try and we cannot we do not control who applies for our jobs Yeah. So we have to remember that. Okay. So then I like to talk about other kinds of diversity. There's lots of hidden diversity. Don't get me wrong. We're not going to negate somebody because of the color of their skin. That's all there is to it. Or their gender. We're just not going to. And part of why I love online platforms is we don't know. Yeah, we don't know anything about somebody and some of my clients do a phone screening first to again We're two steps into the hiring process and we've not visibly looked at somebody. Yeah, and I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah And I do send my job listings to different places hoping to find more diversity like the DVR Yeah, I said it front range Community College probably has a slightly more diverse Exactly. I mean, I even send it to the people who, who at the Murphy Center who help people find jobs who are homeless or facing homelessness. They get my job links too. I also send it to, um, reentry folks who help people coming out of the prison system or the jail system to help them find jobs too. I don't want anybody to ever be unsafe. I want to be clear about that. But I also, those are different kinds of diversity. Can be some of the most loyal employees too. Absolutely. When given that right chance. Statistically, people with disabilities are the best employees. Is that right? They stay the longest, they work, they want. to, you know, be very good in their space. They're grateful. They don't, they don't want to ruffle anybody's feathers. They're just very careful and they're wonderful employees. We uh, just had a Rotary Club program about that very topic, uh, Yvonne Myers and gal Emily from the Poudre School District. Um, we're talking about that very, that very thing. So in DEI, I want to go after all kinds of diversity because we have certain demographics that we, we're not going to hit. In Northern Colorado anyway, and we don't get to pick who applies for our jobs. Can I tell you a totally inappropriate conversation from last week? Sure. So Alma and I went to, take the, the Blue Credit Union Christmas trees back for the realities. Oh, yeah, yeah. So, although Blue Credit Union is the major sponsor of that big, uh, tree at the corner of, uh, College of Mulberry, but each of the Blue Credit Unions around has a foot Christmas tree metal with all the lights too. So we went and picked them all up. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. But, um, as we were driving, it was just kind of a couple hours for me and Alma to chill and hang. And she was telling me how she's glad when she got married last year that her. New last name is pretty cool. Uh, it's Ariano. Uh, you know, and she was like, it's, you know, so much better than Lopez or Rodriguez or something like that. And more culturally significant than her previous last name, which was Ferrer. And uh, And I said, yeah, if, if I'd have realized Ferreira was a Spanish name, I might not have brought you in for the interview. Oh, I did not say that. And I was teased. I didn't say it. And she laughed loud because she knows that I love her. And I love the fact that she can teach me how to make birria and say Spanish words and things like that. And she knew I was comfortable. Yeah. Right. But there's a, there's a line there in a different situation where somebody was wondering, hey, is this guy a racist? Like, that would be a totally inappropriate same conversation. Absolutely. So anyway, I digress. Yeah. I mean, there's even, um, diversity in accent. And some people, some to, to American ear in many cases, some accents are very cool and some accents are very not. Yeah. French bonus. Exactly. Right. German awkward to my ears, Yes, yes, yes. Or whatever. And um, so I have had employers who have, um, a lot of staff on the phones. Oh, sure. And I, and I've had to push through a little bit on Latina accents versus others, because generally we can have an unconscious bias. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. But. Statistically, the customer who's calling, you know, more likely to connect with a Latina accent than any other. Right. If I'm an employer with a call center and I've got one with a Spanish accent and three Italian, five French, and two Brazilian. Yeah, that doesn't look so good. And that's just American unconscious bias. Right? I suppose so. British accents. We love a British accent. Oh yeah. It sounds so professional. Yeah, we love that stuff. Yeah, South Africa, New Zealand, stuff like that. Yeah, so we, there are things we have to watch, right? Yeah, fair. And my perfect client is okay with me challenging them sometimes. Oh, I dig that. Yeah. Um, let's talk about, so you Launched this thing in 2017. You're, you're peddling on your cycle for a while, probably, you know, just picking up clients here and there. And how did you find those, those first clients? It sounded like you knew a few, I knew a few to begin with. And I, you know, hit the networking thing hard. And, um, I also support the small business development center as a consultant as well. And So I really utilize that resource a lot to get, to meet people, to learn what I didn't know. Yeah. You know, we all know, don't know what we don't know, for sure. And so you use it for you as well, like Oh, absolutely. Go talk to their marketing people and different things like that. I my clients all the time, I'll, I'll be like, you should know about this resource. Yep.'cause I do feel like they're underutilized. Agreed. Um, and then, um, founded in VOCO as well. I was a speaker there. Yeah. And, you know, it's just the solopreneur grind for a while. Just keep your legs pumping. Just keep going and offer a lot of free consults until you find somebody and, you know, and, and of course, 2020 was very tough on my business. It was. Yeah. Because my clients were scared, required a lot more. Out of view. Yes. Without getting paid much more probably. And some of them said, can I suspend my contract and things and, and I. I'm not hiring anybody. All I'm doing is letting everybody go. That's correct. I got to let you go after I let everybody go. Yeah. Help me, help me do layoffs appropriately. You know, what does my staff need to know? What paperwork do I need to do? All kinds of those things. Okay. And I said, absolutely. I just let everybody stop. Okay. Because I was in a privileged place to be able to do that really. Um, and, and honestly, if I, I was a single mom for a very long time, if I had been a single mom in 2020, you couldn't have said that. I could not have said that. I'd had to go out and get a job. Um, and I'm happily married to a wonderful man who supports my business. When I tell my clients, you can pause your contracts, you can give him a quick shout out. To the love of my life, Will Parker. But, um, I, I, all I did was go into service mode and this looks hard and confusing. And what do we need to be doing? And we had a lot of, you know, we had some pushback and some counties aren't doing and some counties are, because I do a lot of work in Larimer and Weld. Sure. And they were very different. It's so fascinating. Yeah. Uh, going to, being in both Greeley and Fort Collins in a day. Yes. And Windsor was exactly halfway between. Yes. And I have a client in Windsor and yeah, so, um, you know, I, I tell people, this is the law, right? And, and this is not. So this is your choice. Right. And, um, so, you know, it was an interesting year, but it really did, 2021, my business took off like crazy. Okay. Yeah. I knew that there was some, some story there. And that was. What just from all the people that you helped some of whom too much for too little money and stuff in 2020 Hey, Tammy helped the crap out of me during this season. Yeah, I had a lot of people come back Oh sure, and then I had a lot of people refer me. I almost get all of our business just from word of mouth referrals Yeah, yeah, so Really a privileged place to be as well. Are you acquainted with Becky Ezell? Becky Ezell and I share Probably a dozen clients. It wouldn't surprise me. Yeah, it seems like you would jive with each other. Yeah, we're very close. I re listened to my podcast with her a few months ago and Yeah, not terribly dissimilar heart for service and just wanting things to be done better. Yes, and Becky was one of my clients during that time. I don't think she'd mind me saying at all. Oh, yeah, cuz she was hustling trying to find Bookkeepers. Mm hmm. Yeah. And, um, yeah, we're very aligned in, in, um, we're in many things, like our servant attitude and things like that. Um, and Becky and her team, God love them. They send me lots of people who do, because payroll gets HR questions. Every day. Right. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. Um, and so you're, Getting all these clients coming back, new referrals, and when did it, like, feel like you were overflowing and what was your first action to do about that? Um, well, first I had a temporary just admin assistant to support me directly. Okay. Um, while I knew somebody who was looking for full time work and didn't have it at that time. Okay. And, and she was super capable and a lovely human. And so I hired her to be for temporary status, knowing that she was actively looking for her full time job. Yep. And I wasn't ready for, you know, a full time employee. Yep. Um, while I got ready, basically. And I started You know, delegating what I can and creating some processes and whatever else that would let you but be scalable Yes, and then my first full time employee has been with me a year and you're in a quarter She joined me in October 22 of 22. Okay, and she came to me with 11 years HR experience 16 years general management experience Which general managers deal with HR all the time? Um, and she, we, her first couple months, she was part time with, from October to January 1st. Okay. With a plan for her to go full time in January. And She and I spent kind of the first year getting everything out of my head, you know. You know, it's all right here. How Unicycle functions. Right. What are the processes? Yeah, even things like mission, vision, values of the organization. Why do people choose us? All that stuff. All of that. So, Um, Sarah Britton, my amazing, amazing right arm, she's not my right hand, she's got my whole right arm. Who did she used to work for? Uh, she came from out of state. Okay. So she managed, um, a bakery and was the HR department for, I want to say maybe they had I'm forgetting. I like 11 bakeries. Okay. In Georgia. Yeah. No, I'm sorry, Charlotte, North Carolina. Somewhat familiar name to that, but she's been at realities events and met you with me. Okay. That's where that familiar name has come from. Yeah. Um, and so she's, so that's interesting. You don't really imagine. Everything your clients hire you for is like expert status stuff, right? Like you can't really hire Interns to speak of except for maybe administrative things or different things. Yes But managing my calendar alone was a big task, right? Yeah, because we We keep data on job Um, postings and how many interviews and all of that, that we, Even though you don't charge for them individually, Right. That's each part of your, each of your client files kind of thing. Yes. And we give feedback every Monday. We say, this is how your job post is doing. And this is how many interviews we've done and how many we've got scheduled. Yeah. Things like that. Um, and I, I can do the hiring process as a, just a project for clients too. I want you to know that. Okay. But most of my clients hire me for that first and then hire me for a year. Yeah. I was going to say it. It seems like there's a risk of being like, I get your training wheels on you and get you launched and then they let you go because your, your price kind of stays the same. It feels like you should have like a big, depending on how underdeveloped their HR function is, you should have a bit more of a retainer or onboarding fee up front. I'd want to charge more if I have to redo everything existing. If it's brand new. I'd rather just start it from scratch. Very minimal done. Yeah, and then it's all mine. I don't have to go in and audit. It's just here's my handbook. Here's right, right, you know Fixing rewriting a handbook takes more time than starting one fresh. It makes sense. I would rather start one fresh But still potentially a lot of the risk or a lot of the work is on the front end of the thing And if you get it fixed up so their turnover goes down So they're hiring and onboarding processes are easier and stuff then all of a sudden. Yes It seems like you're expensive. One of you were cheap in the beginning. For sure. So I explain, uh, for example, a business with less than five employees. Yeah. Um, their bill for a year is going to be maybe a thousand dollars more than hiring me for the, once a month, paying me once a month for a year. So talk to me about that. Like how much, how much does it cost? My smallest package is 850 a month. So for me and the under five employees, demographic 850 a month. Now, if I do a hiring process for you, it's going to start, um, average cost 3, 500. Oh, okay, so there's like a little placement fee almost. Yes. Yeah. It's a lot of stuff. It looks a little different than like a, uh. My hourly rates are way higher, if you just want me for a project, than my ongoing rates. Gotcha, gotcha. And for me, I'm, it's about building my relationship and building the customer. Right. And I Well, if you get me dialed in, so that I've got my HR thing in place. And you've made the one hire you needed. Yeah, but I've been communicating the new 401k plan and trying to get people engaged in that conversation. And Tammy's your liaison for people having to do paperwork, not you. Right. Yeah, and my job is to be so good, you don't want to do business without me. Yeah, you know, I think that's, uh, well, and 850 a month is real money for a firm like mine. For a small firm, yeah. I mean, that's probably 10 percent of my payroll. Okay, mm hmm. You know, a fractional HR person or somebody that knows anything about HR is probably five grand a month. Oh, absolutely. You know, even for a half timer. Even Or something. And I can't, what do I need a fractional HR person for? Right. I got four people, three people. Yes, exactly. You know, sometimes two. Yeah, no. I mean, somebody right out of school or with minimal experience in an HR role is going to start you at 55, 000 a year. Right. And that's not with my years. Like Sarah and I just know. Right, they don't know what they're doing. Yeah, and um, you know if you want 32 years of HR experience in your back pocket, that's not that big of a fee. So Sarah's been with you this whole time. Do you have Yeah, I do have another part time employee as well. Um, and I have my bookkeeper. I have somebody who just does my books, but I'm not big enough to need Becky yet, but she'll be my bookkeeper when it's time. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I took on, um, a part time employee. Um, he really comes from a sales background, but he also did middle management in corporate America. So he worked for Comcast and Xfinity. Okay. So business development with. HR awareness A little bit of marketing. You can talk to the networking. Yes. Yeah. And he can conduct interviews, frankly, he's already done them. Um, we're starting him small. He's only been with us a few months, you know, starting him with an entry level position to own from posting to higher. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you can turn him into an expert in not that long. So it sounds kind of attractive to me, depending on the candidate. And plus. You might miss, uh, being out there if you're just, so that'd be your next hire is another grinder in the home office so that you can also go out and make it rain and visit your key accounts more and do less thinking, more glad handing and whatever, schmoozing. Yeah. Do you like, which, which do you like more? Oh, so I, I like being helpful. Yeah. I get a, I get an emotional payday when I feel like I've helped. Yeah. And, um, I, I do the Enneagram. I took, I do the Enneagram in my personal hiring experience. Okay. And Sarah, so I'm a challenger on the Enneagram and a helper. And a two. Yes. Uh, so I think being challenging is helpful. That's not everybody digs that. No, I think that's actually really, really sweet. Yeah. Well, Sarah happened to be the exact same on the Enneagram, which by the way, when building teams you want diversity. You want somebody who thinks differently than you, right? But, um, a friend of mine said really for the first full time employee for Unicycle, maybe another Tammy would be just what we need. Yeah, I mean that's what Made it work Yes. To begin with, kind of. Yeah. And we communicate the same, all of that. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I really love feeling helpful. Yeah. And I love it when a client is just like, thank God you were here. Thank you so much. And when they have to have a tough conversation, if they feel. remotely comfortable or confident going into it, you know, and I'm like, look, you know, I try to go in when I can and, and be there, but I can't always with the number of clients that we have. So I will write the document and say, you know, this is how this conversation goes and coach them and prepare them. Well, and what I like about. That is, you can kind of become a hub of, like, if you find some, uh, update that's going to be really easy for people to understand, you can just give that to everybody. Yes. Right? You don't have to reinvent the wheel each time. Yes. We have an FAMLI toolkit. for our clients, and it's a one sheet for what the employer needs to know, and a one sheet for what the employee needs to know, and if they have questions, they call us. They don't bother their bosses. So, do you want to circle back to that, uh, Boeing DEI thing, and talk to me about how this, how you, what's your perspective on that general topic? Refresh my memory about it, because I'm trying to remember. Well, basically, um, you know, after this door blew out. Oh, that's right. Right, and then people started snooping around, and It used to be, um, safety of our people, safety of our passengers, and, like, one other thing was Boeing's, like, three things. And then they added back in 2020, uh, diversity hires and one other thing. It was also kind of on that D A E I A J son, we'll call it. And so now, and I just saw a big study that like, corporations have hired a ton of diversity in the last two or three years. Like there's actually, well, yes, and not if airplanes fall apart. Sure. Right? Right. And uh, the actual. Percentage of the workforce of whites in corporate America has actually gone down slightly as all these, uh, other demographics are happening because people are like, and you've seen it even around town, right? Like all of a sudden CSU has got a black DEI person and so does it, you know, whatever, right? And so that's the tension of the argument right now. So like Elon Musk and, uh, Cruz, who's the owner of the Dallas Mavericks? Um, Cuban, Mark Cuban, they got into like a big boy piss and match on Twitter and, and, uh, Musk is like, well, I better see short Asian women on your basketball team if this is the position you're taking. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And so like with that as the backdrop, like how do companies both keep merit and skill at the center of. I, I really prefer colorblind, you know, as best we can, knowing that we can't be pers that we have unconscious biases. Sure. For sure. Yep. That's fair. Um, and so yeah, just, I guess, talk to me about how, how to avoid the negative consequences of embracing diversity, the potential negative consequences. So my first thoughts are always the same on any hiring DEI or not, basically. Yeah. Um, If you focus on experience and, um, the abilities to have the behaviors. And the knowledge that you need in the role first, that's what you've got to focus on first, certainly for small businesses, like, frankly, CSU can afford somebody who's a DEI expert. Well, well done. Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Right. But like a small scale to absolutely require somebody perhaps, or at least utilize them, but I've done some hiring in the nonprofit space. And, um, a couple of the nonprofits I was working with directly. DEI was very important to them, and yeah, thank you. Let's talk about that. But I had to talk with them about, one, the demographics of Colorado. And two, the reason DEI is tough in, and I promise I'm getting this back to Boeing. The reason DEI is tough in a non profit space, similar probably to an aerospace space. Is that the privilege it took to build the resume to get there is probably not Had to be willing to work for less than you were worth in some ways. In a non profit space, yes. Yeah, yeah. So non profits are full of, um, White men and middle aged white women. Right? And it's because they could volunteer and work their way through the ranks. Yeah, or even work for 60 percent of what their skill set could be. Because, because, Because their husband was a dentist. Right, attorney, whatever. Yeah, exactly. So that's why nonprofit spaces or maybe aerospace, maybe some of the hard sciences, for example, like to be in a really high level in a hard science, you had a certain amount of privilege to send you to the right schools to, you know, to get all of that knowledge that needs to happen to make sure airplanes don't fall out of the sky. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure there are people of color, people of LGBTQ backgrounds, people on the spectrum. I'm sure those people are out there in those places, but not as much as privileged people. That's all there is to it. There's just not as many and if everybody wants one. This is business reality versus business theory. Quick detour. To conversation, I heard was that was like, as far as students, that's great. Like really focus on, in being more intentional about diversity there. Absolutely in education. But if we're talking about like. Leaders of Harvard and MIT, maybe the talent set isn't developed enough yet because 20 and 40 years ago, there weren't really women in academia and weren't really blacks as much in academia. And so maybe we really are reaching here. Uh, and that appears to have been the case, at least with that Harvard lady. I mean, that was. pretty lousy resume, ultimately, that was alarming. But, um, but also let, for example, in a nonprofit space, trying to hire an ED or VP and wanting to improve DEI in your organization, you can't be frustrated by Um, again, we went through three, two steps of the process without physically seeing somebody. We had no idea what race, gender, any of them really were. And the, the people that moved into final interviews or third interviews and fourth interviews, primarily white men and white women, because they're, because they're privileged to fill the resume that we really needed. So I did say, look, if we don't need all this experience. That might change who our final applicants are. And we, if you guys get to decide, you know, I, here's the thing. I don't make decisions in people's businesses and they make decisions. I have to live with them, but fair enough. But I said, you get to decide who goes to final. Yeah. And if, if you want to make sure this is a, uh, you know, a diverse hire, then, then that's a different bargain, but they were, they were kind of upset that the candidates were not more diverse. And again, that's out of our control. So my, my point is we should control what we can and recognize what we can't control. Yeah. We can't, we can't guarantee how many resumes are going to come in with the right engineering experience. Right. For this hire. Well, that was one of the things in like the Boeing annual report. They were like, Hey, we focused on this and last year we had a target of 90 percent of our interview pools would have a diverse candidate. Okay. A diverse? That's not that hard to hit. It was, but 92 percent of them got that. Yeah. Uh, and so they were embracing that and, and yes, a candidate, it didn't say anything about who actually got hired and things like that. Um, but if there isn't a qualified candidate. You know, like what is our qualifications? That's great. I mean, in something as simple as a pilot, right, you know, you can't be a pilot without getting a pilot's license is a very privileged Yeah, I can't afford to go get a pilot's license like even if I could get a job doing it I guess like hard exactly So, I mean we have to becoming a doctor fulfill the needs of the business first of the role first and do things throughout the process to encourage DEI, but again, this is Northern Colorado. We're not a diverse place. Yeah. I, I like to say it's hard when you, when you put like quantifiers and stuff around it, like setting certain criteria targets. Now, would I, if faced with two different. Candidates that were equally qualified and one was black or a hispanic female or something like that. I, personally, I think I would and I would encourage most people to lean, if it's otherwise tied, If it's otherwise tied, Tip it to that. Make your choice, based on your values. Yeah, and to me, Giving people that haven't had as much of a chance in life based on birth is a positive thing. Yeah, absolutely. So, anyway, I digress. Yeah. You haven't gotten into trouble so far with this conversation, it seems. I mean, I may sound You're pretty pragmatic. Yeah, for sure. But that may also make me sound like I'm an HR professional that doesn't just wholeheartedly support DEI. I do. Yeah. I just, we have to acknowledge the business reality of It's kind of like, uh, doctor stuff, like, do no harm, like we shouldn't harm Boeing's safety by embracing diversity. Right. I mean, embrace diversity, but keep everybody safe. I mean, there's no Boeing. So this, this goes to the core point of my job, our job, we, Sarah and I view it as protecting people every day. Some days. Uh, in, in bad situations, which by the way, don't come up that much, we're protecting an individual who's having a bad time in their work environment, like a harassment situation, or we need to do an investigation or something. Most of the time, we're protecting every job under that roof. So, protecting Like Boeing hiring the right person to make sure planes don't fall out of the sky is protecting every job at Boeing. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. Because if planes fall out of the sky, we got no jobs. We got no health care. A lot of problems. We have no 401k. So my job is to protect everybody. Hmm. That's an interesting tension I never really thought about because, and it's I guess probably always the case even with an in house HR, but like, Um, even if, like if, if Alma was getting harassed by me and you were my HR department, then she would come to you with that complaint, but I'm the one that pays you. And so you've got this at least mild tension on where's my bread buttered and what's the right thing. I might. My suspicion is, is people wouldn't hire you without knowing your integrity was going to be kind of first place. Yes. And, and again, I'm pragmatic in my conversations with potential clients, right? Um, one of my agreements is that I can always tell you why I have the advice that I do. And I can, I can tie everything back to your bottom line and your sustainability as a business. Fair. So, um, and again, I don't make decisions. Here's my advice. Here's what I think you should do. And you spend a lot of time probably documenting that even, right? Absolutely. E email correspondence, is that your primary platform? Mm-Hmm. and a CRM that's gonna pull every email I send to a client, not Right. Right. Yeah, that's fair. And, uh, whatever you decide, business owner, I'm going to help you through that process. Like even if it's a termination that I'm not con, that I am concerned about. Yeah. Um, I'm gonna help us do that termination to the best of my ability. And, and if you're doing your terminations correctly. At the end of the day, it's not your decision if that employee stays, it's their decision. Yeah, yeah. Right? Can we, uh, I think you seem like an imaginative person. Sure. Let's go through like a best practices journey of an entry level employee hire that gets at least one promotion, struggles a bit, has a performance improvement plan. But that's successful and then moves on to the next chapter in their journey. If you, if somebody gets a PIP and comes through it well, that's a coachable employee. Yeah. Right? No, I want to start like from scratch. From scratch. Okay. Here I am this. And so now you're I'm getting hired by a unicycle advised company client, and so I'm, whatever, starting the interview process. What's that look like? Yeah, so one of the things that we do that saves our clients a lot of time, and I think helps employees as well. We do our first round of interviews over Zoom, and we record them. So the client's not even there for the first interview. We've talked to them about, this is our interview guide, it's approved, like everybody gets the same questions. See, I like to go with totally random, off the cuff questions. Oh, no. I like to have a plan. Also, there's higher DEI when everybody gets the same questions. Makes sense. It's fairer. Um, so everybody gets the same questions, um, we've sourced your resume, we've heard from a client what are the must haves. I always tell my clients, you hire for the intangibles first. We can teach anybody how to use our software. Right? Don't get me wrong. They need a certain computer literacy. We're, we can do an assessment for that. Yeah. Um, but you come and you do a Zoom interview with me and part of our DEI work is you don't have to be able to do it on a computer. You can do it on your phone. You can call in. Oh, okay. Because there are barriers to people having a good enough computer. Yeah. Pretty much everybody's got a cell phone. Right. Right. So they can phone in to that Zoom interview. They don't have to appear on camera. Um, and if I was somebody who was worried about DEI, like I had a disability or something, I have, I would have that option. Right. So I think that's important. Um, and then what we do is we send that Zoom recording and your resume straight to the client. So the client just gets an email and here's a possible candidate. They've got all the things you wanted. Here's our interview. Let us know if you want to meet with them. And are you narrowing this down to say a top five out of five? 20 or something like that. Oh, yeah. We have a must haves and a nice to have list for every job posting. Fair. But, um, you know, sometimes I have to explain to clients that unicorns don't exist. Right. Stallions do. What's, what's the difference? Well, um, I mean, a unicorn is a, there are people who are like, look, I want them to know my software when they walk in. Oh, right, right. The perfect client. The perfect candidate. That has perfect resonance with my values, et cetera. And can walk in and do my job with no training. Right. That's not. Yeah. Really a thing. And we might overlook a stallion who can do 80 percent of it and all we got to do is teach them how to click on our software. They're a strong horse. They can pull a buggy or a cart. They can pull a team along. Yeah. Because they're just such a good team player. Yeah. Yeah. Things like that. So those are the things I want to look for. Okay. Intangibles. Yeah. Work ethic. Coachability. Things that, you know, a good human. Yeah. Yeah. You know, somebody you don't think is going to steal from you. Well, say somehow I made it through that. Yes. And, uh, so now I'm, I guess, coming into the company for later interview round? Yep. We have created a 30, 60, 90 day plan for you of what you need to be familiar with and proficient at in each of those pieces. So here's your job. That's a new employee thing. Okay. Here's your job. The first 30 days, we're going to expect you to be proficient at these things in day 30. And familiar with these things by day 30, and then by day 60, the list gets longer. So you're doing a lot of interviews and stuff with not just the owner of the company, but their existing staff that do adjacent similar jobs, stuff like that. What does this job need to know? Yeah. And then hopefully by 90 days, everything becomes proficient. Yeah. Right. Then you also have a 45 day touch base with 90 day touch base with Unicycle. Where we've sent you and your boss or you and the people who work closest with you a little four question email. Yeah. Give us feedback on the new employee. How's it going so far? Yeah. Yeah. And that you new employee get to sit down and go, wait, how is it going? Yeah. What am, here's my proficient familiar lists. Where am I at on these? Yeah, yeah. Where's the gaps? Yeah. And we don't, that, those interviews are not. You do that regardless. It's not just like, it's pizza restaurants or custom car shops or bookkeeping businesses. It's the same in every environment. Okay. My work's the same. Yeah. Um, so yeah, we, we sit down and, and I've gotten feedback from your boss and your coworker or somebody, you know, a couple people around you. Yeah. And I don't go. Look, you're really, you're really screwing this up. That's not how that goes. I look for the gaps, especially if somebody thinks they're just nailing it and their boss is like, they're not nailing it. Yeah. Yeah. That's I I'd rather have awareness and not performance than. Yes, neither of both. Yes. And you know, we're not in the business every day. We don't know what that training looks like, right? And different communication styles, different learning styles. Just where are we at? Frank conversation. And so I, I don't say, Oh, that sounds. You know, you're you're really missing this up. I say, tell me about this thing. It sounds so complicated in your work and I have them explain it to me and I check for awareness and how well they think they're doing. And it's the gaps. Yeah. If the, if the person is like, yeah, this has been really complicated. I really should. should, I don't know if I need to study more, what, you know, look for resources if, if they're aligned with where their company thinks they are at, we're fine. We need to study some more. We need to train, but we're all on the same page. Right. Right. Yeah. I was just reflecting on, we just hired for a marketing coordinator role. And one of the questions that got, took a lot of the candidates off guard was kind of, you know, we're hiring for this To fill a gap like we don't know how to train you to be a really good marketing person for local think tank Yeah, you're gonna have to if you don't already know what you probably don't you're gonna have to figure it out. Yeah Exactly exactly For some it was an easier question than others to answer and I like a wacky I like some odd questions to throw people to see how quick they are on their feet Not every job needs somebody we've mentally quick. Yeah, but that that question they needed to be mentally quick Yeah, you better be aware and they needed to know their industry enough to know where they'd look. Yeah. Right. Like, um, for a marketing person, I hired for a nonprofit, it was a VP of marketing. So it was, you know, higher level position. But one of them was, you know, who do you think does it best on all three of these platforms? Who do you follow that you think does a very good job and why? Yeah. Yeah. Stuff like that, you know, and, and I expect a professional in the industry to have that. Yeah. At least some awareness. Absolutely. Yeah. Even at the level that you hired. So, um, I got past the things we've had our check-in. Yep. And I finally got proficient at most of my things. Yep. Then I got a raise. Yep. And a promotion. And then I got a, a PIP, uh, yeah, well, no, first I got a sketchy new girlfriend or, you know, something that threw my attention off or whatever, maybe a light drug addiction, something that threw my game off. Uh, and now I need a performance improvement plan. Well, my first, every conversation that is a performance management conversation, good or bad, starts with Curious. I'm curious. Yeah. What's going on with you? Everything was going so good. Yeah, no, I've said that. And then a few months ago, it seems like it turned sideways. I've heard that, you know, your trajectory here has really taken a turn. I want to come in and see, how are you? What's going on with you? Yeah. And wait and see what you find out. Yeah. I mean, if it's, I got a new girlfriend and I'm just so busy. She's so cray. Yeah. Um, okay. Um, are you As Kanye would say. Yeah. I've asked young people, or I shouldn't say young people, I would ask this of anybody of any age. So how comfortable are you with this person impacting your professional career and your ability to pay the bills? Hmm. And I wait. From the employee's standpoint? I ask the employee that. Yeah, yeah. If they're like, I got a new girlfriend and she's so cray, and I'm just trying to see if Okay. Sounds like your hands are full. Yeah. In your personal life. Um, you know, a couple of questions. How comfortable are you with this person, you know, putting your job at risk and your ability to pay the bills? Yeah, yeah. And, you know, that's really what they're doing. Yeah. You know, while she's so demanding and she's, okay, um, can you not take calls from her or text from her during work hours? Is that, you and I need to find a way to get you some good boundaries in your personal life and your work life balance. Yeah. But when you're here, we need you here. So that's, you're going right into the heart of that kind of a situation and whatever. Yeah, yeah. And then do you report it back to the owner? I ask for commitments. Okay. What can you commit to doing? Okay. Sometimes, so, employee, it's best for the employee to choose their commitments. Right. But I can, I make suggestions. What do you think are some things that, Your boss would really find, would, would evidence that you're doing what you need to do. We need you to perform like you did two months ago. Right. What's it going to take to get you there? Yeah. You know, and well, she'll freak out if I don't answer, you know, if I don't answer my text messages from 9 to 5. I, I assume she'll freak out more if you become homeless because you can't pay the rent. So, you're going to offer her a choice, right? Yeah, yeah. But if we need to put your phone in a drawer and lock it while you're here, that's what we're going to do. Interesting. You know, that's, that's what we need to do. Um, and then now, last step, I overcame, fixed it, I overcame it, but then I did so good that the, the competing, competing company that pays a little better and has better benefits stole me away. Mm hmm. What's the, is there like a best practices for off boarding and, and even talk to me a little bit about best practices for onboarding. Like are you? Designing that onboarding thing, like where the, the owner or the, their, someone in their office, their office manager says, this is how we do it at Johnson plumbing and heating or at local think tank. These are, you know, this is that 32 page employee manual handbook. Um, and here's the highlights. Here's like, like, my question is, I guess, around the experience of, You know, do I work for Wally's Speed Shop, or do I work with, uh, Tammy and her team at Unicycle? Hopefully, before a good employee gets stolen away, they've let us know something. They've given us some clues. Some clues, right? And, again, I'm pragmatic. I got a certain amount of time to serve this many clients, so I'm very pragmatic and very, you know, hey, what's up? What's going on with you? Here's the signals that this needs attended to. Yeah. Yeah. Let's, did we ask? I always say that. Did you ask the employee? No. I don't know what to say. Say, hey, you know. What's going on? What's going on? Right. And the employee might be like, well, I know you, you know, your budgets are constrained and my rent's gone up or my property tax is on my mortgage and I had to start looking. Right. You know, wow, Kurt, you're so valuable here. I really wish you had told me ahead of time, you know, we could have a conversation about your compensation and maybe to retain the right talent. Like it's so much cheaper to retain the right talent to get new, you know, we could have had a conversation about compensation. I don't make promises because I don't make decisions, but I'm happy to. Talk with an employee who needs a merit increase for whatever reason. And, you know, can we give you your next raise six months early or four months early? And you know that at annual review time, you've already got your raise. You're not going to get one in February or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what do we need to do to take care of you, employee? Let us know. We'll see what we can do. Yeah, and sometimes they just Sometimes we can't. They're going to move on. Yeah, sometimes we can't. Um, talk to me about like, Like, what, who does it best in terms of onboarding teammates and like communicating culture and things? Uh, I don't know if that's my, my best practice thought is don't just write your culture down. Live it every day. Um, as an applicant, one of my favorite questions in an interview is here, I read your values online. How do you live those in your daily work, um, to the owner, to the owner, right? Yeah. I dig it. And if we don't, then what do we got to do to do that? Right. But as far as best practices for onboarding, really, Kurt, um, if you have an order onboarding process at all, any process process, a process that goes out 90 days and has check ins, you have an 85 percent chance of keeping that employee at least three years. Which is why my process last night interesting. Yeah, I uh, we have kind of a 90 day basically a 90 day temporary Way I communicated and I I'm usually like hey, I'll probably give you at least an hour 1 an hour raise at that time, or we might look for somebody else, because if you're not worth 1 an hour more, then maybe I need to keep looking. And if you got, and I, so I do a lot of that work, by the way, and, and you don't have to hire a temp agency to do that. You just need the right form for somebody to acknowledge that, that they're temporary. I'll email you. Okay. Sounds good. A template. Um, but for them to acknowledge that they're temporary. Yeah. Cool. Cool. And that there will be a merit increase and that there's an end date. So some of the worst practices that I don't love is hiring five people when you need to knowing you're going to keep the top two. Corporate America does that a lot. Yep. Yep. Um, and like, I mean, in holiday and retail, you would hire 24 people when you need 10. Oh, wow. Stuff like that. Oh. And that just feels unethical. Never book a shift for a lot of those and stuff. Or they get one and they didn't impress you in one shift, so they don't get any more. Interesting. That feels unethical to me because people are coming here to pay their, feed their families. Right. I was, I wanted to make an extra thousand bucks over the Christmas season. Exactly. Working at Bed Bath Beyond. So, with, with my clients. We tell the employee, first of all, we're not hiring two of you because we need one. We're hiring one person. We have this one role open. We want you to be successful and last longer than 90 days. That's our commitment. And an end date. Corporate America also hires people in temporary and leaves them there for three years. Right. So they don't have to provide benefits. Right. And stuff. Yeah, they're dirty birds. That's unethical. At least they're not as unethical as our party system. That's a whole other argument, yeah. Um, you know, if there's things, what would you say is the top, uh, maybe one or two surprises, uh, of being in business for yourself and then hiring and like, Because the HR has its own perspective, right, and you have a lot of years of that perspective and stuff, but when the bottom line and the top line and the marketing department and all that stuff, like, where would you say you were most surprised as this has unfolded? Um, so I did work in a, in a sales environment. Okay. And so I don't, never shy away from conversations around money and how are things going and transparency. Um, I. I was wrapping up 2023 and I had a planning meeting with some financial minds. Becky Zell was one of them. And um, we have a small group that we get together and we strategically plan twice a year for our business. And you know, I count on those people to talk to me about my money differently than I would see. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, Unicycle was 10 percent profitable last year. and grew by 70 percent revenue. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, and my two financial friends were like, and I was like, so profit is my word of the year for 2024. I need more profit. And he were like, no, a small business that was 10 percent profitable would be That's lovely. That's like the goal. Right. And you had Sarah for the first time for your first full year with a full time employee and you were still 10 percent profitable. They said we would have expected you to even been read for that big edition because I also added some benefits because I got Sarah full time and you know, some things like that are costly. Right, right. And it's because I want to be a good employer and I wanted to attract the right talent. Sure. Um, but they were like, Tammy. You're doing great. Right. Totally. Yeah. Well, that's one. You've probably never heard this metric before, but 40 percent is actually what, um, uh, what do they call those vulture capitalists look for? Oh, wow. Um, a combination of net profit plus revenue growth. Yeah. They want the two of those to, to equal 40. So if you're 20 percent revenue growth and 20 percent net profit, you're. eligible. You're, you're twice that. You're 70 percent revenue growth and 10 percent net profit. So yeah, nice job. I did 70 percent the year before. I don't think you're a candidate for. Uh, venture capital, I don't want to be a private equity, but it, but it is, you know, it's showing that you're managing to both the bottom line and the top line. And usually, yes, when you swallow a big new expensive employee and all those benefits, you'll dip sideways for at least a season. So yes, they were both like. Tammy. So that was a surprise by how easy it is. No, I think I'm hearing silly. Um, no, it's just a marker that the marketplace values, what you're doing, and you've got people priced right. According to the value you can provide. And my clients, you know, most of my clients. Uh, renew automatically every year and, and, you know, I've shown my value and, and I have not increased. So plans are grand. Well, that was what I was going to say. You should, oh, they're grandfathered in. They're grandfathered in at this time. And my new sales employee is very, Tammy, we got to talk about that. Yeah, exactly. Especially if the inflation nation continues on in the future. Because it probably will after the election. Here's the thing. I wrote their handbook. I wrote their Right. All I have to do is write my updates for the new laws every year. Yeah. They're way less trouble because I've already gotten, I already know their team. Well, that's a cool thing. Like you can, your margin is easier later as you have more long termers if you're doing your job right. For sure. Um, yeah. And, and there's less risk. There's less, uh, there's less tumultuousness in the business. Just have to send out things once in a while to scare them into keeping you if you're not working hard enough to really earn it in the future. I have to be like, I have a client that does quarterly reviews with their employees and I've had them for three years and I only go to those now. That's all I kind of do. And I update the handbook. You know, they don't have any turn. Yeah. Uh, we're not hiring. And, and so all I have to do really is keep their employees like loving that I'm there and the owners loving that I'm there. And they do, they're just like, this is so much better with you. So nice. What's next for you? You would you add another? I need a person and then a grinder. We kind of talked about that Yeah, I need it. I need another doer. I'm not really big enough to have to justify a salesperson So that's part of why the salesperson is part time. Yeah, and they know that do they have another job too? I assume so You don't ask. No, this is what I can offer you. Is that even sustainable for you? Things like that. Right? They want me to, uh, you know, talk with them about potential, um, commissions and things like that. Sure. When they get going, great. No problem. Right. Here's some ways we can invest in your skills and give you some experience. Whatever. Exactly. But the first six months, even Sarah was Really just shadowing me and watching me and going, this is what we do and this is how we do it. And her challenge was to pull the procedures out of my head because it was all just my head and my Mac. She had experience, but not necessarily your way. And she was concerned because she wasn't from Colorado. She didn't work in HR in Colorado. Sure, makes sense. Yeah, so fair enough. Yeah Anything that you would share with a would be corporate escapee like yourself. Oh, I mean if you can financially do it Just get out You know, there was a statistic it's a few years old now, but it it talked about how It was about different generations And that how young people will get, would give up at least 10 grand, 10 of their salary to, to, to like where they work. And that's my whole job is making sure we like, you know, like our work. And that's why I started unicycle is. What would our world be like if we all liked our job, were engaged, cared, helped the business grow, had benefits, had good, you know, a living wage? Yeah. All of that. I dig it. What could we do with our world if we had that for everybody? It'd be awesome. It would be awesome. Yeah. I'm going to call a short break. Okay. We're going to come back and, uh, hit our closing segments. Okay. So we are back. And, uh, one of the things I wanted to observe is it's almost 420 and I always keep a joint in the dinosaur there. Yeah, yeah. I assume you wouldn't be partaking with me in that. Not right now. Should have offered earlier. But I am cannabis friendly. You are cannabis friendly. I am. I use cannabis. should I hit you in the beginning of the meeting here? So you're not so close to driving home in this cold day. Um, do you know what a safety meeting is? No. Oh, I can educate you. A safety meeting is what cannabis friendly people do before they have to do some monotonous tasks or like I had to recruit my. Neighbors to help move my giant chicken coop the other day. Oh, it took six strong men with holy cow. Yeah. Posts and stuff. And so you have a safety meeting before you do that thing, which consists of passing a couple of joints around. I see. Circle. That's a safety meeting. Okay. See, in my world, safety meetings are, you know, actual safety meetings around osha. Yeah, That's where the tug and cheekness comes in, I suppose. Yeah, for sure. Uh, but yes, if you ever, if you ever see somebody call a safety meeting at a. at a New Year's party or elsewhere, uh, you'd be like, Oh, safety meeting, I'm going. I have to, um, I, I'm very honest with my clients and potential clients that I am, the cannabis community is my community. So if, but if they want to have a drug testing program, you'll put that in place. That's their prerogative. Yeah. We need to let the employees know. Yeah. I do not encourage trusting for cannabis in the hiring process in Colorado. It's a waste of your time. Right. Right. Because everybody's test positive or everybody. You actually want to hire? Most everybody. Yeah. There are very few, um, places where I would recommend, you know, and that has to do with CDL. Right. You have to, you have to test clean to have your C, to keep your CDL. Insurancey things. Stuff like that. Stuff like that. Yeah. At the same time, I assume like drug use on the workplace is a real concern. Absolutely. And addressing that. And not, not okay for safety reasons. Right. Yeah, yeah. Well, it depends on the work environment, right? Like, at the marketing agency, maybe you want to go out to the alley for a few minutes before you huddle? Probably not. Don't tell HR. Never tell HR. Just don't tell HR. Fair. Um, so we always, uh, we've already kind of started drifting into, I don't know if, that's not really politics. It's the worst place, safety, stuff like that. Sure, but, uh, but Uh, faith, family, politics, wherever do you prefer to start in that conversation? I don't. Let's go to politics and talk marijuana policy. Okay. Have you been a lifelong cannabis enjoyer? I'm not. I waited until it was legal. Okay. And I raised two sons in Colorado and basically was like, no, not, it's not worth a felony. Don't be stupid with your life. And I know that they both. And then when it became legal, you were like, I'm going to try this, see what everybody's been talking about. Absolutely. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. I, I believe that it has medicinal purposes, that it helps people in their real lives. Um, I believe it's fun and if you want to, it's no different than having a beer in my opinion. So, uh, I'm fine with it for fun as well. Just be safe. Don't, you know, kill anybody on the roads and just like alcohol though. To me, it should, it's just like alcohol. Have you seen it impact, uh, Workplaces, you've been kind of professionally in the HR environment. Has it made for more or less challenges in that space or? I think if we just assume, if we just, when I meet clients or potential clients or business owners, they're very worried about it. I'm like, okay, you're kind of worrying about, you're spinning your wheels. You're worried about something that isn't that significant to worry about. That's correct. And, and, you know, don't get me wrong. If somebody's high at work, yeah, we need to take actions. We're responsible for their safety while they're here. Right? And honestly, we're responsible for their drive home if we don't take actions. Yeah. So, you know, we need to know what we're responsible for and, and protect the business, the bottom line, everybody's viability. Right? Yeah. Um, but other than that, quit worrying about cannabis, guys. That was kind of like, that was kind of the attitude of the cops. Around Fort Collins at least before and during this whole transition season. They were like, I'd never like Um, no high people ever try to fight me when I try to arrest them, you know, things like I'd rather deal with somebody who's high than somebody who's drunk in a heartbeat. Yeah. Almost every time. For sure. For sure. Um, so talk to me about, uh, other political realms. We've got the Iowa caucuses are today, uh, We haven't seen any news reports or anything to see how that's going. Yeah. I mean, and they're having a storm too, and so it's only the dedicated. But it's Iowa. They're so, like, so engaged, Iowa, like generally, right? Their populace is supposed to be super engaged. Yeah. Um, yeah. I, I don't know. I, I don't know. I'm tired of voting against people. I voted against people my whole life and I really am tired. I would like for both Trump and Biden to just resign. I am also tired of old white men running everything, frankly. Really old white men. Really old. Really old. Yeah. But that's just my That's fair. No, it's fair. Well, really old and Cognitively compromised both, uh, yeah, I would love to be excited and never meritorious for the office of the presidency. Like Joe Biden has been kind of an ass hat most of his life. As, as Donald Trump, like no, no point in either of their careers. Was I ever like, yeah, this guy, yeah, no, I would love to say that's our guy. Yeah. Is there anybody that you would say that's our guy about now? Not on the ticket now, but like. Somebody as you reflect around the No, I, um, so, well, I'll go ahead and get all political. Sure. I was raised in Kansas. All right. It's a red place. Sure. I was, I voted, I registered red because that's where I lived and what I was going to do when I turned 18. Yeah. But I've never missed a vote in my life. Okay. I don't intend to. Um, and yeah, I've spent my whole life voting against people. Oh. And, um, I knew. And you stayed red the whole time or are you independent now? I'm independent. Actually, no, I'm a Democrat now. Okay. Just because I wanted to, um. Vote against Trump? Honestly, I changed my registration because I would not be associated with that man. Hmm. Interesting. Okay. And I knew way early. Oh, fuck no. And honestly, I was like, he can't really be the. Well, the Simpsons knew he was going to be the president like back in 2012. Yeah, but they predicted so many things. Um, but anyway, I, I have always, I've never just voted party lines. I've always chose all of my voting, um, candidate by candidate and issue by issue. And really I was raised in the Bible belt and you just registered as a Republican. It's just what you did. But I voted how I wanted to my whole life. And I felt it's important to vote. Yeah. Um, and when he became the nominee, I changed my registration that day. Cause I will not be associated with that man. And, um, and then I went to independent and then there was a local election that I wanted to vote. I don't remember. There was a local election that I was like, I'll just go in and change it to Democrat for this. Right. To vote in the caucus Yeah. Yeah. And I just haven't changed it back, but I'm basically an independent. Fair. Yeah. Um, what do you think about the RFK junior campaign? I think he's an asshat. You think he's an asshat too, so we've got three asshats. Oh, absolutely. Fair. But I think that he'll still vote from Trump more than Biden, so I'm okay with it. That's my sense as well. So you want Biden to be the president? Do you think he will be? I don't think he will be. I don't think he'll be the candidate. I think something's gonna happen. You think something will happen? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I will gladly post my vote for Joe Biden. Because I will be voting against people again, once again in my life. I you wanted to stop doing that. I do. I don't have a choice. Fair. Right? I, I view, uh, don't get me wrong. If, if I felt like there was a viable third party, I would. That could actually pull it off. Yeah. I would absolutely consider that person and probably, if I liked them, gladly vote that way. Alright. But if I don't think it's viable, I, I want to do what, I want to vote against who I want to vote against. What's your, uh, if there was like one big issue or topic, um, Or is there not, you're not really one issue. Issue kind of a persons, yeah. Is there, uh, yeah. Is there somebody that you look up Topol in the political system now? In the political realm? Not one. Not even. No. No person? No. Not even a tulsi or anything like that? No. She's pretty independent, former Democrat. Um, I appreciate Tulsi, I appreciate, um, I appreciate Elizabeth Warren and not, I wouldn't have been excited to vote for Elizabeth Warren either, but Elizabeth Warren, not Gifford, who's the lady who always shows up with her whiteboard? Is she from California? I have a tugging memory, but I'm not going to find it. Yeah, there's, she was, she was reading during when they couldn't confirm a speaker. She was reading The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck in the Chamber on purpose. It was adorable. Um. I like it. Yeah, I like people who do the research, who can show up, bring the receipts, say, here's my plan, that have a plan, that has, that's data based, right? That's part of why I liked a little bit Elizabeth Warren, not, again, I didn't think she was a viable candidate. She wasn't going to get elected. So that, again, not throwing my weight there, right? My vote there. But she at least had a plan that was she did oversight and wanted to make sure people, the consumer was protected. And there are things in that where you bring data and action. And even if the plan's not perfect, they have a damn plan, you know? Yeah, yeah, that's fair. So I appreciate those. Yeah, I mean, her ideas for regulating the financial sector after 2009 were, frankly, the dumbest shit I ever heard. Were they crazy? Uh, no, it was just, it was going to be counterproductive. Oh, okay. Yeah, and I don't want a counterproductive plan. Yeah, but she presented it. But at least she presented a plan. Yeah, yeah. It was a lot. No, I agree. I agree. It was my knowledge of economics and human behavior that made it. Made me realize it was a dumb shit plan. Uh, but anyway, I digress. I appreciate that appreciation. Yeah. I mean, show me with a show up with a plan and have data to support it and talk about what you want to do and why we don't even get that from. Well, yeah, it's just. If you vote for this other person, the country's going to end. And that's basically the same message from the Democrats and the Republicans. We obviously value votes differently though, because I've never, I don't think, had my vote counted for the president, because I've always voted some third party jackass that was never going to win. Uh, because I want to be more. Oh, that's true. You know, so that's why I throw my vote away in that way, is to just be one of To say a third party would be lovely, and I completely agree. It was on this podcast, actually, when, uh, I discovered that myself and my guest, Gavin, uh, who ran for city council, wasn't the city council for a while, uh, financial guy in the industry. Mm hmm. Me and him were two out of 451 people that voted for Kanye for president in 2020. I did not vote for Kanye. Well, I stand by it. I stand by it. He might have been proven to be super cray after that. He's crazy. But it's crazy that we have this Biden Trump situation. Oh, I'll agree. No, I'll agree with that. And so I was like, you know, the system is obviously stupid. The system is terrible. So I just communicate my appreciation for the system by voting for Kanye. Yeah. My husband votes third party as well. Most of the time. Yeah. And I'm like, and he's like, it's none of your business. I'm like, you're right. It is none of my business. I love you. We both have the right intentions. Yeah. Um, let's talk about your family a little bit. Actually, we usually zoom back in the time machine all the way, all the way back. So let's just do a quick zoom now and go back to Kansas. Where, where in Kansas did you sprout? Southwest Kansas. I was in a, I'm a native. No, what's that? Ulysses is where I was growing up. There's a little town with an MC or something over there in Southwest Kansas. I forget. Anyway, it's a lonely part of the country. For sure. So I'm a native Coloradan. I was born down in Rocky Ford, actually, where I'm from, got family there. But I was taken to Kansas when I was three and I came back to go to college. As soon as I was 18, I was back in Colorado, where I belonged. But I spent vacation, summers, everything in Colorado, for sure. Tell me about, uh, like six year old. Tammy, or were you Tamara? No, I was Tammy. Always Tammy. I mean, what was your family setting? Were you farmers? Did you work at, like, what took you to southwest Kansas? Um, nope. We worked in, we were townies, but, um, so my mother had me in high school. Okay. And the first time I went to college, I was two. Oh, right. I lived in a dorm that had a floor for single moms. In Wichita, Kansas, which is crazy. Um, and that was also the first time I saw a person of color. Yeah, sure. It was when I was two and went to Wichita. Um, my mother went to Wichita state. Um, and so even though she was, it was 1970 when she had a baby in high school in a small farm town, right. She went off and went to school and all of that, right. Good for her. So I was raised by a single mom, um, and my grandparents, her parents. The whole time, mostly. The whole time, pretty much. Wow. Yeah. Interesting. So, uh, no. And just you, or were there other My sister, uh, so I'm the oldest of all of the grandkids by far. Okay. Because mom had me so young. Right, right. My sister's six years younger than me. Okay. Um, but mom didn't marry her dad either. Yeah, yeah. And so, uh, you know, just mom and the girls. Very discerning, uh, tastes. Yeah. About your mom. And then, um, and my grandfather. And what did she do to, I guess she relied upon your extended family. Yes. But also, did she work during this time? Oh, absolutely. She always worked. Yeah. Sometimes multiple jobs. Yeah. And later, she became a paramedic. Oh, wow. And so, you know, she'd get a call and she'd be out saving lives and all that jazz. And she worked for the Army as a civilian, so she was nationally certified. Interesting. So, when there's like a big earthquake or whatever, the Army pulls Interesting. So she, you know, would fly out to California. Then you're hanging with grandpa and grandma for three weeks or something like that. Absolutely. Yep. I bet that crafts a lot of independence and can do attitude. Yeah. Oh, sure. Sure, sure. Yeah. I mean, I was a firstborn kind of a thing. Right. Except my sister. Starting when you were 11. Yeah, it was, it was the eighties, man. Well, I was, I was driving a combine when I was 11, 12 years old and trucks, you know, years before I had a driver's license, even though we could get a driver's license at 14. The boys, you, you only dated boys who would work the farms, but they would work the summers just. To death, like, you know, 14, 16 hour days, as you know, and then they would not work in the school year so they could play football and, but football season was like, practice was like paused for harvests and the opening weekend of deer hunting. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, that's where I grew up, um, kind of, uh, what kind of, uh, student were you in those years? I was an average student. I was not super high. My grades were not super high. They were fine. You know, A's, B's, and C's, but also I kind of didn't put a ton of effort in. It wasn't hard. Whatever I could coast to is what the grade I got, kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted to be a journalist when I grew up. Okay. I wanted to go, I was never going to get married or have children. Oh, that wasn't a great career choice at that timeline, but whatever. I wanted to never have children and go Cover war zones and be a, you know, controversial journalist and uncover the truth. I dig it. And, um, yeah. Geraldo was your hero. Didn't do that at the time. In the eighties, he was great. Right. It didn't take long for him to lose his credibility. Um, but yeah, that's what I wanted to do. And, um. I got pregnant in college. Okay. Um, and where was that? Was it in Colorado? It was in Colorado. So at the time it was the University of Southern Colorado in Pueblo. It's now CSU Pueblo. Okay. Yep. Yep. Um, my university doesn't exist anymore. Oh, it was separate at that time? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, is that right? It doesn't even exist anymore. Yeah. Yeah. My university. So. They just got absorbed. They didn't really get absorbed even. They just went away and CSU took over the campus. And CSU hmm. Wow. Wow. So I'm, I'm a CSU fan. Just. Partially because we live up here, but also that's my school still. Yeah, your predecessor. Yeah. Cool. So, um. So you follow mom's guidance and you were a little older, but. I was 20, um, I have two sons. Okay. They're, uh, 33 and one's getting ready to turn 30. Okay, so and did you were you with a single mom as well or was a single mom not not initially but you know Not long after yeah. Yeah And I did have the privilege to stay home with the boys for a few years though. Okay So my career was really, you know You go look for a job and you haven't had a job in three or four years people are like, what are you doing? You're like well I volunteered at the school, I volunteered at the church at that time, and. And did you have a journalism or communications degree? Nope, I never finished my degree. Didn't finish. Okay. I still don't have a degree. Oh, really? Okay. Um, that was on my podcast with Becky as well. Yeah. Where, uh, she took that as like a stigma for a long time and now wears it as a badge of honor as colleges. I mean, it just is what it is. Yeah. It just is what it is. Yeah. Right. Well, and at least you're not toting around. I had, I had my, my debt for a while, but I find I did pay it off. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So how did you get into HR then? Like, how did that happen? I just, I got hired actually. So, um, I ended up in Northern Colorado because nobody knew me here. I was fleeing a domestic violence situation and I didn't know anybody in Fort Collins and we moved to Fort Collins like overnight. Wow. So, my first job here, I was Like, virtually hiding. Like, in quite a ways away, but still in Colorado. Mm hmm. Um, so we, that's how, that's how I'm in Fort Collins is he, I didn't know anybody here and he wouldn't look for us here. Yeah. So he threatened our lives and it was a very messy, ugly situation. Um, and, um, I moved us to Fort Collins while he was being held on a psych eval by the police. Wow. And here we are. You're like pack up kids. How old were your children at that time? Six and three. Okay, so you're old was able to understand a little bit Yeah But you know, we found a wonderful community with and I did lean heavily on the resources that were available You know crossroads and things like that, right at the time, but that's why we're here is I didn't know anyone here interesting Yeah, my boys grew up here. Yeah And then, like, how about the HR angle? Oh, so I got hired, I needed a job. You know, any job. I got hired as a cashier at Sutherland's on college back in the day. And within three months they had me managing the cashiers. Oh, wow, okay. And within six months I was their purchasing agent, so I bought. All of their, all of their product and inventory control. And you start learning HR stuff, like how to write somebody up and how to terminate somebody. And then later I went to big to, I got a job at bigger brands, heritage brands. So, uh, I worked for AAA for a long time and AAA sends all of their managers through a lot of HR training and things, and just worked my way up there and worked for AAA for a long time and got lots of certifications and. Stuff. Bada bing, bada boom. Yeah. Here we go. All the experience in the world, man. So we were on the family tangent there. You found a fella, I think you said his name was Will? Yes. Where did he come into the picture? I met Will at Triple A. Okay. And, um, we've been married. They didn't have rules against, uh, workplace. Er, er, er, er. Uh, I mean, there's only so much you can do about that, but no, he worked at the headquarters in Denver and I'm, I managed Fort Collins in Boulder and Greeley for them. And um, he was in IT and I, he, Oh, he wasn't your boss. That's good. Oh no. No, no. They do that. Yeah. There is something we can do about that. But no, he was unrelated. I just met him. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we've been together. We were together for 5 or 6 years before we got married, and we've been married 10 years, so. Oh, wow. Yeah. Congratulations. Thanks. 10 year anniversary. Did you do something extra fun? No. Not really? You were a bit easy, just growing your business during that time. Oh, actually, this year we went, um, We cruised Alaska. That's right. Well, that's pretty special. It's very special. It's on my bucket list. We don't normally do something big. It's over the holiday weekend in September, so we usually do S. S. Parker's, you know, an Airbnb or something. But this year we cruised Alaska and it was my first vacation since I started the business. Oh, congratulations. And, um, I decided I was just going to take the money for a real vacation. Yeah. And I saw whales. Awesome. On my bucket list. Oh, good. Yeah. It's always good to see whales if, when you're trying to see whales. Yes. Uh, we just went to the shore over Christmas, actually, and it was just on the first day of that huge wave storm. Oh my goodness. And so the people at the whale watching place were like, there ain't going to be no whales watchable today. No. And get the hell off that beach. You're going to get like wrecked. How frightening. Yeah. It was pretty crazy. Um. Um. Yeah. I wanted to ask, uh, what was it about? Uh, young Will that caught your eye or kept your eye more accurately, perhaps. Um, so my husband's an engineer. Okay. And a severe introvert. I like it. And, um, thoughtful and kind and patient because of it. And very different than anybody I've ever dated. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It's a different level of introspection. Right. Yes. And I would say to women, um, they would be like, well, what is it about him? And I would say, he's nice. And women would go, Oh, sounds so good. And men would go, what? Because they all think they're nice. I'm nice? Come on. Yes. Yeah. Um, anyway, he's, he's just very different type than I'm normally would be attracted to. And he's the love of my life. That's awesome. Um, why would, what would he say was the reason he kept coming around? Oh, I'm very different for him too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm an extrovert. I'm loud. I'm yeah, very opinionated, very opinionated. I have an opinion on everything. And, um, I, I pull him out of his comfort zone though. I get him to do things. He would have never gone to Alaska. Right. Um, he was not at all interested in, in a cruise and don't get me wrong. I'm not. You know, I'm not a big cruiser, but it's a great way to see Alaska, right? And I got us, I made sure we had a room with a balcony so he could introvert and see outside as much as he wanted. That and I put us on a very, in the smallest ship, and I got us on the smallest ship with the least amount of people that I could find for my introvert as well. I like it. Yeah. Um. You guys don't have any children together, just your older ones? No, we have children separately. Oh, separately. Um, so, one thing we do by tradition is do a one word description of the children. Would you like to attempt that for both yours and yours together? Oh, sure. And just a name and a one word and you can, you can supplant it from there. Uh, Corbett, my youngest, is eclectic. Dig it. He's an old man in a young man's body. That is strange. Almost a, a medium aged woman in a young lady's body for sure. Yeah, yeah. Old soul. Um, and my oldest is, um, he's an extrovert. He's confident. So confident that he can feel like braggy or brash. Yeah, yeah. And he gets it from his mama. Not actually arrogant, but comes across that way sometimes. Yes, people assume. Sometimes he livered at me in my lifetime. It's not his fault. Very good. Um, and do you want to do the Sure. Cole and Samantha. So my husband has a son the same age as my youngest. His oldest is the same age as my youngest. They're turning 30 this year. Um Cole's pragmatic. He's just very down to earth, very successful at what he does. Pragmatic. Um, Samantha's our little hippie. Um, you know, she's I'll allow two words. Little hippie. Little hippie. Yeah. She's going to school to be a vet tech. Oh. So, she likes animals. Save the world one animal at a time. That's right. Yeah. I, uh, remember one time when I told the vet tech that I would not be paying for an x ray for my dog because Whatever it found I wasn't gonna spend that money either And it was a good outcome because they just ended up giving a silene thing that loosened her up and then she passed the Problem and I was like told you 800 x rays give me a 70. Anyway, yeah, I digress but vet techs are generally like she she looked at me shocked like you're You're not. You're not going to spend all the money on your dog? I'm like, it's an old dog. Like, it's not going to go that much longer. Yeah, that's true. I'm a country boy. Yeah, yeah, no. You know, I raised, I was raised in Kansas. Right? You shoot old dogs. Our dogs didn't go to the vet. Right? They're either alive or you shoot them. They're fine. Yeah. And I have a, I love my vet here. I have, we're dog, I'm a dog person, but also I'm not bankrupting the family and spending college funds on chemo for my dog. That's not how I was raised either. Do you want to talk about your dog? Sure. Um, he's a pandemic puppy and totally spoiled because I work at home. What flavor? Uh, he's a mutt, but he's a herding dog. And so he has lots of energy. Aussie style border or something, something over there. He's an Australian Kofi, actually. So a friend, a friend, I had not, a friend got us the DNA test. Again, I wouldn't have spent money on a DNA test for my dog. He's doggy. He's a mixed dog. Um, a friend wanted to know. He bought us a thank you gift, it was a DNA test, so that's the only reason I know what he is. But he's got 29 breeds in him, he's a mutt. Yeah, he's a mutt. Sure bred mutt. Sure. I dig it. I love mutts. Um, I think we've covered a lot of family. Is there any family traditions or things that really set your family apart, your merged family? Oh, I don't know. We have, I'm a big holiday fan. For me, holidays start in October and go through into the year. And I love them all, and I live them all up, and lots, it's, I go over the top on Christmas decorations and all that, and then I'm exhausted and ready for it to be over. Yeah, finally. Yeah. Yeah, cool. Yeah, and, and it's all, all the stuff's at my house. So I have lots of company. Are you a good cook too? I'd like to think so, yeah. I'm sure you know if you are or not. And I, I like to bake and Cool. Yeah. I dig it. Um, so we've talked about politics and family, faith. We haven't touched on faith the whole journey here so far. You were Catholic or Lusitanian from Western Kansas probably? I was raised in the Bible Belt. Yeah. Nobody there says, do you go to church? They say, where? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you go to church? I don't, um, I don't practice any faith anymore. I'm a woman of faith. Okay. Uh, I believe we have a soul. No, I believe we are a soul and we have a body, not vice versa. Okay, that's fair. Yeah, I'm, so, you know, I, I believe in the soul. Um, but I was raised in organized religion that's not very pleasant in a lot of ways. Fair. Do you believe in a, a creator being, a God? I believe in a higher power. Yeah, I'm agnostic basically. Yeah. Um, I have dear friends like Becky who's a woman of faith. Sure. And who actively go to their church. Um, I want to be respectful of anybody's beliefs no matter what they are. Yeah. But also I'm not terribly interested in going to church and I kind of had a belly full in my whole childhood. Care to share more about your experience or isn't appropriate here in this forum. It's the hypocrisy. Yeah, for sure in churches Yeah, a lot of people's With scripture in their mouths and hate in their heart. That's the best way. I've heard it. Those are not my words I've well and you know love on you until you get pregnant as a teenage girl or something like that When you most need support right even just kindness you don't have to do anything for the pregnant girl just Letters still come to church and pray. I had a friend, uh, a client actually at the time that, um, Somehow years into our relationship, he found out I was a Christian. And he's like, oh, you're a Christian, Curtis? And I was like, yeah, you know, I'm not really super vocal about it. But have been for 10 years now or whatever. Well, and not even, it just didn't come up, really. And, uh, he was like, Well, you know, I don't really, uh, have that background, but one thing I know is if somebody says you can trust me I'm a Christian, that I cannot trust that person. Um, and that's one of the most bothersome things to me. I think there's a number of Churches and people within churches that consider themselves set apart and superior in some fashion. Like they get a license to sin and be hypocrites and shitty because they call on the name of Christ. Um, and then there's frankly, people more like Becky and I hope myself, that see the ugliness of hearts and the, uh, Benefit of finding, you know, some and also that they alternative also, they can make mistakes. Everybody can, and we can do better next. There's grace there. Forgiveness. Yeah. Yes. Do better next time. That's really, yeah. Do you, um, like where do you, did you or do you get like your kind of core values elements if it's not from a faith background or, or the, they do think it's still like the 10 commandments are still, still, I do think it's still from, from my faith background still. You know, like I said, I, I, we went to church two, three times a week. Wow. My, my life, my whole life. So, you know, there was no escaping the scripture. And so done, what I think I'm hearing is done correctly. I would be 100 percent supportive. Christianity or a church or whatever is probably a really beneficial thing. Absolutely. And, and all of the world, the major world religions have so much in common. I wish that we could all just focus on what we have in common and that we want, but the same with politics and governments and, you know, that children can be safe. And, you know, grow up in a safe space. Yeah, we all ultimately want the same thing. Absolutely. As a, as a libertarian, I, you know, one of the things I like to align is that the more government tries to fix things, the more they fucks it up. Yep. And sometimes directly that way, like with some of the HR laws and stuff, it's like so devastating to like potentially get caught in a maternity. Conflict situation or a race conflict situation, especially if somebody's been flagged once or twice for fighting with their previous company in those kind of areas. Absolutely. And there's a bunch of laws for protection and stuff. Yeah. And for a lot of companies, they're like, that's too much trouble, too much risk of something going down. Love to have a woman of child bearing age or a black person on the team, but eh. But I can't afford to lose my whole business and have everybody get laid off at the same time. Right, right. So part of the crux of our work is working in this system. Yeah, and trying to do use it to do the best for the common good for the employee for the business at the same time Right. I have to work within Rules that are draconian and set down. Yes Some that are old and no longer relevant others that are new and poorly thought out Correct, and and I have very little faith in my government to do anything really well Yeah. So, but this is my system. This is the system I have, but you don't have to work within that system and stuff, not my government strong point, you know, and well thought out plans, not my government strong point. So, but I, I, I have all this background. Like I, I just, I know the stuff, but how do I use it to make my community better, to support a small business, to support a single mom or a single parent or, honestly, you don't have to be a parent to be valuable and be trying to make it through tomorrow and have a living wage and support yourself. Right. And, you know, use your efforts to support your employer while you're there. Yeah. The productivity of your hands. That you actually made a difference with your work. I have big faith. I really loved, um, Cory Booker was going around talking about the dignity of work and stuff like that. I appreciate that so much. Yeah. That shit wouldn't fly today. And I loved that. I was like, go Cory! Talk, let's talk about the dignity of work. I mean, that's not probably true, but it will, it, it is actually almost, you know, Controversial. Yes. In today's world. Which is absurd, but okay. Agreed. Yeah. Um. So, sorry if I'm going back in. No, I've enjoyed it. To me, this is about my core values. For sure. Right. Well, and I, I wanted to say, you know, the existence of your business can help take a level of fear away from a lot of people that want to start something but fear the consequences of doing something wrong in the HR space? Absolutely. And having somebody who you can call that knows Yeah. And more often than not, Kurt, I'm saying it's OK to say that. That was not mean or rude. That's the facts. Yeah. I need you to meet these expectations. Yeah. If you don't show up, we can't keep you. That's correct. If I can't depend on you. Right. Um, so, I think people get afraid of what they can and cannot say. Yeah. So you're a security blanket. Sometimes security as well as a specialist, I'm a blanket and call me and say it. HR is where you can say anything and we'll choose to write it down or not. and, and I'll advise you to do it. Well here's, here's how I down this way would suggest way we take this path. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Instead of calling your boss an asset directly in the response to the connect college guard and say, my boss is an asset. Let's talk about that. Right. Let's talk about how to actually document your opposition to Right, right, right. Phrase. Let's talk about coaching up. Right. You know. Yeah. Um, I dig it. Uh, the loco experience is your craziest experience, uh, when you, when I read that, that you're willing to share. The first example I came up with, like, we just, we see. We see crazy resumes. First of all, we see resumes that we're like, what? Okay. Um, and I sit in on annual reviews and compensation conversations a lot. Sure. So this is the craziest annual review competent conversation I experienced in true story won't tell you which client space But had a part time employee Mm hmm. Come in, very valuable employee. They work remotely, um, a hundred percent. So they also get to pick their schedule as long as they get their stuff done. Right. That kind of a cool environment. Right. Yep. And review time. She comes in and she says, um, so I'm looking at my personal budget. I'm going to need a 10, 000 raise this year. Okay. And next year. Okay. To meet my personal financial goals and I'm going to need to cut my hours back by about four hours. So let me, let me, and let's start. Yeah. And I was like, and I looked at the business owner and there I could see the wheels turning like can I do that? What would it take to do that? And I just said, no, no, it's asking that of a small business. First of all a 10, 000 a year income and what was her income before like 20 30? Oh, no No, her salary was 55 60. Okay. Okay, but still that's a hell of a 20 percent raise Yes, that's a hell of a raise to ask for 20 percent raise next and next year and also I'll be working less hours for you To do that. So this is what I'm asking for today. And I just said no. And the business owners looked at me like they didn't want to lose this tenured valuable employee. This is a tenured valuable employee. I want to be clear. Yep. But that 20, 000 from a small business is a lot to ask for. Period. Also, I'm going to work less. I'm going to need this from you, boss. Like, we had a 10 percent increase planned for that person for that day. Right. Sizable increase. Yeah. Nothing to, nothing to sneeze at, really. Um, the owner didn't know that this person was going to hopefully work less. Right. Either. Right. And I just said, First of all, it's not your employer's job to fulfill your financial desires for your life. Right. Your failure plan for the last 30 years is not an emergency right now. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's not how we give raises. That's not a thing. We give raises based on profitability and what can we do. Most small businesses are doing what they can. It's all they're doing. Yeah. Yeah, and you gotta realize that. So how did that shake down? She's still with us but I did Like looked at the business owner and said it's not your job to meet her financial goals for her. It almost feels like You, uh, overdid your position there just a little bit by pushing back that directly. Oh man, I was, I was like, what the hell are you talking about? Make 20 percent more and work less. What have you been smoking? Cause I want some of that. First of all, you only work 26 hours a week. You know? And making about 50 grand. She's making good money. Yeah, that's real good money. I mean, that's uh, effectively a six figure job at a full time. Yes. And she was like, well, I just, I'm just working too much. I'm going to need to cut back by at least four hours a week. Okay, sweetheart. Good luck with that. You know, go find another job that pays as well for that many hours. I get it. Well, and I think that's, if there's one cultural phenomenon that's been harmful to young people, Like thinking they can go from entry level to C suite in three years. Oh yeah, no, that, yes. Uh, and just like, they don't have to earn those stripes at all, you know, just like, well, duh, I, of course I should be managing this division in three years. I don't, I got a college degree. Okay. How many, how many times have you managed a team? Right. Think about that. Yeah, have you ever hired a person? No. Yeah. Do you even really know what you're, anyway. Do you even know how to do an interview, much less mentor somebody and onboard them? Yeah. Are you, um. Do you share your domestic violence loco experience at all? Can we Not much, but I, I'm Do you want to share that? I don't mind at all, because I think it's Because that sounds fascinating to just uproot your whole life. And, you know, maybe if you want to give a shout out to those organizations that supported you in that space. Yeah, I mean. People that encouraged you to GTFO if there was those people. Yeah, so Crossroads was a big deal. Down there? No, here. So you, like. decided you were going to run to Fort Collins before you, like you were making a plan, kind of. I had, so, a friend of a, an aunt and uncle of a friend lived in Fort Collins. Okay. Uh, they don't live here anymore, and one of them has passed away, but, um, They're aunt and uncle of a good friend. Yeah, this friend was like, and they said my uncle they said that you can come stay Yes, I would did not stay in Crossroads. I lived in their basement for 40 days Yeah, well, I got my first place Wow, and I'd been a stay at home mom So I didn't have a good resume right either right and Sutherland's hired me. Yep. God bless you Sutherland. Yes How long did it take for you to build the courage to jump and what was that scene? Was it just like escalating because of drink or booze or pills or something? No, I mean in the victim's advocate office, there's victim's advocates available in our judicial system. Okay. So I had an advocate who represented me in my divorce and I had one that represented my children. Okay. And they had a therapist that represented them as well. Sure. So I didn't have to try and advocate for the boys. I did. But I had professionals who were saying this is dangerous for these children, right? And I have a restraining order, um, as big as the city I live in. So he was told. If you are pull over for running a stop sign in the city she lives in, it will be assumed you're there to hurt her. Wow. And you will go to jail. Wow. Okay. And then my address was protected as well. Okay. So, I mean, I just leaned into this. If there was a system I could use. These were all things you got put in place after you got her. After. After I left. Yeah. Yeah. I just. So, this was not a, I'm, and I'm happy to talk about it because I think we should talk about these things more. Um, so, it was not a, I was not a battered wife. Okay. Um, I, up till. So, it wasn't like a long pattern. Nope. Oh, wow. Just a, a ratcheting down of control, control, control. Eventually, I had no bank account in my name. I had no vehicle that, to my name. Wow. And I had no job. I was 100%. Right. Like. And weren't really allowed to have friends to speak of. Under his control. Exactly. Yeah. And I told him I wanted a divorce and he lost his mind and he loaded a gun and said he was going to make me watch him kill my boys. And then he was going to kill me. Oh, okay. And I called the police and they took him away for three days. I had three days to move out of my house and decide where I was going. You're like, it's never going to get better here. Well, you already asked him for the divorce. That's the line. You were going to kill my children? I'm out. Yeah. And the police were like, how many times has he hit you? And I was like, he's never hit me. Right. Yeah. You know, it was not a ongoing, but also my line was crossed. I'm like, you're done. Well, yeah. Well, and that's like premeditated, thoughtful threatening. Yeah, and he loaded a gun in front of me. Right. And everything. So, I called and had him arrested. And, um, yeah, I ran away to a town I didn't know. It's a lovely community. I love this community. Yeah, no, it really is. And we're blessed to have you here. Thank you. Yeah. And I hope for, you know, we don't have the big listenership, but if there's anybody out there that knows somebody in a situation like that, or is somebody in a situation like that. They can reach out to me. And I'll turn them on to, I know all the kinds of resources, man. Well, I sure appreciate that heart for service and, uh, any last minute, uh, you got a sign off or a word of wisdom for the end of the show here, Tammy? Um. No, not really. Uh, feel free to share my contact information. Um, I do a, I do a free meeting for anybody who needs advice in the moment for HR for HR. Oh really? Yeah. If, if somebody needs to get on my calendar, they can do that from my website and get a free meeting to seek advice. Um, I no longer do online on going meetings with SBDC cause I just don't have time. Yeah. I do a webinar. Um, at the end of every year for them, like what you need to know for next year and changes to the law, blah, blah, blah. It makes me get ready in time to do the SBDC webinar. But um, But like any small business owner that needs a quick advice, they can get on my calendar for free and just get some advice. It may just be a phone call, like on the phone or whatever. Right, and it's not going to be six of them, you know. No. Let's get some stuff out and if you need me you can hire me you handle this. Yeah. And part of my offerings, I have HR CPR as well. So that's for somebody who's Emergency button. Yep. Tammy, I need 30 minutes of your time and a resource if, if there's like a form you need and that's 150 bucks just to get me. Um, but that's not, that's not for the first phone call. If you need something, I'm, I'm happy to help. Cool. Just support small business. Yeah. That's what I do. Cheers. Yeah. We can be friends in that journey. Absolutely. Thanks for being here. And, uh, I look forward to our next conversation. Yeah. It's been fun. All right. Glad
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