EXPERIENCE 147 | Accidental Entrepreneur with Timiry McCaskell, Owner of Dora Grace Bridal in Fort Collins and WIndsor

McCaskill is the founder and owner of Dora Grace Bridal, named after her two grandmothers. Dora Grace has been fitting brides and prom dates and more in Fort Collins since 2011, and opened a second location in Windsor in January of 2023. The second location came along as an unplanned opportunity of sorts, and has allowed Dora Grace to expand their design offerings and demographics. Timree wasn't a bride looking for a better experience for future brides, nor was she a retail expert looking for a niche or an instinctively entrepreneurial person, but she did notice an opportunity after the failure of Mountain Avenue Bridal in 2009. There was no longer a cool and local bridal store for the everywoman. You could have a super expensive boutique experience, or the David's Bridal Corporate Experience, but really nothing in between. She soon started talking with friends about this problem, and later engaged a bit with the Small Business Development Center. And then started working on a business plan, and before she knew it, she was talking to bankers and landlords and then bada bing bada boom. She's at a location and an SBA loan, and she quits her job, and she's a business owner. AFter a couple years of bumps and bruises, her superpowers of curiosity and tenacity helped her find traction in the business, and she's evolved over the years to be a light touch, systems building, employee empowering lady boss. But she'd cringe at all those labels, and that's why she's fun. Timree is a former, and I hope future, member of Loco Think Tank, and every conversation we've shared has been full of dynamic learning and idea chasing. And this one is no different. She pulls back the curtain on the bridal industry, Envy criticizes the Best of NoCo Awards, and shares many lessons from the journey. So please enjoy, as I did, my conversation with Timree McCaskill. Welcome back to The Loco Experience. I'm pleased today to be joined by Timree McCaskill, and Timree is the owner and technically president, though she doesn't call herself that, at Dora Grace Bridal. Yes, that is correct. So, why don't you call yourself the president? I always, um, I think one thing people should know off the bat about me is that I really kind of, You're very pretentious. I'm very pretentious. No, I really hate this hole. Girl boss mentality, um, and it shocks me even that I'm an owner of something. So it's really for tax purposes purposes only that I have to be the president. Somebody's got to be the president of the company. Yes, exactly. Um, have you ever considered the title, uh, HMFIC? Do you know what that is? A head on a fucking chair. Yeah, that's the one. Because that would kind of show that you're definitely away from that kind of girl boss kind of attitude. Yeah. It's all those kind of like, chief officer of fun, or chief fun officer, just, that's not my vibe. I'm just, I'm here doing my business. I do good business, and do you want the dress or not? Yeah. Yeah. That's my, yeah. I am fun. But, not on paper, I guess. So, um, you were telling me before we started that it's, you're kind of tiering the two Dora Graces in Fort Collins and Windsor. So, can we just set the stage a little bit about, you know, where they're at, what do they do, how many people work there? Oh my gosh, so many. No, I was just making Christmas cards. We just had our company party on Sunday and I was writing cards to everybody. And my husband, it was like an hour and a half later. He's like, are you still doing this? I'm like, I have so many people that work for me now. So yes, it takes a minute. There are 13 of us total, including myself. Um, and I opened up my second location in January. So we're coming up on a year of the new Windsor location and I'm sure we'll get into it, but. That is becoming more of kind of an outlet store. Okay. And so, it's gonna be rebranded to Dora Grace off the rack, which is what the Instagram is now. Is that like, uh, already been used stuff and different things like that or just stuff you couldn't sell in the main store? Both. Very much both. But also, sometimes you get Big blocks of deals and stuff. I suppose you don't want to I haven't gone into that yet, but you're right So some stores that operate on that off the rack model only right goes to the designers Buys these big block deals and tries to sell those off. Fortunately. I have a store that kind of feeds that store So I don't have to do that quite yet. And it's actually kind of a win win getting rid of Inventory in my main location has been like, you know, even when I started loco back in the day That was like the number one thing. That was a pain in my butt. So having this second location did Scoot everything over there and give it a second life has been really good, but it's basically Stables at our store that have been discontinued or that just aren't moving that will move over there Yeah, and we have a couple that we can reorder from but that's basically what it is Didn't can they get the good stuff there too in Windsor? Um, It has been so much back and forth this year. No, you're it could be any week is a different story over there so right now you can get the discontinued samples, but also some of the newer stuff, and you can reorder that potentially if you want to. But it's maybe a little bit less premium price point. Uh, no. If I have to reorder it, it's full price. Oh. Yeah, so, yeah. Fair enough. So, you said 13 people, so that's split between the two stores. Split bet yep. Is the mothership Fort Collins, or are they similar sizes? It's my flagship store. Um, yes. So Fort Collins is quite large. We have four fitting rooms that are for bridals. We have a second kind of private fitting room area that we have parties, girl parties. And when the entourage gets over four people, we move them to this special area. And then. Um, we have a prom section, mother of, um, we don't carry bridesmaids anymore. And then Windsor was previously a bridal salon. Um, and so it's a little smaller. I have two fitting rooms, you know, like maybe, uh, not even a quarter of the inventory over there. So yeah, it's just a little, little guy. Well, it's Windsor size. Yeah. It's Windsor size. Exactly. Yeah. We love it. Um, and maybe we should jump into that right now. Okay. Like, did the other store go out of business? Did you acquire them? I came in and strong armed her. Well, they wanted to get out of their lease sometimes, is how that works. I mean, I don't know. Okay. Is that not in my business? I mean, I'll say it. I guess. She's not going to listen to this. Um, but. So, last. That's the kind of attitude I like with this. Yeah. No. She may. Who knows? I don't think she's very on top of her business podcast, let's say. Okay. Um. So, last year, I was kind of. Mm. Mm. Having a conversation with my friend who is a commercial broker and I said, you know, it was a really great year I've got all this money What can I do with it? I want to buy a building. That would be my dream And so I said, you know, what would be a really fun size for a second location would be the size of this in Windsor, and she said, well, why don't I reach out to the owner and see, you know, who it is? Cause I thought at the time that this old owner owned her building. And so she came back to me and said, she is not the owner and the landlord said that he is accepting offers, actually has another offer on the table because ABC was not paying her rent. Um, so I said, Great, let's put an offer together, blah, blah, blah. He wanted way too much for it. Yeah. And, you know, it's downtown Windsor. You know, it's popping off. And he just thought it was worth so much. Everybody thinks that, you know, their turd is the shiniest. Yeah, exactly. And I said, well, thanks, but no. You know, but if, you know, she does break her lease, I'm happy to swoop in. It was, honestly, the worst two months of my life because He told me I had a letter of intent out for this. Okay, and At one point he was just like I'm not gonna rent to her I've got this other deal and we were like, well, you've already signed this letter You like this is a deal that has already been in place And so I was making plans to have this second location and the rug kind of got like swept underneath me Slipped out from underneath me like the fall of this was So I was doing a couple things. So I was talking to her landlord and then also kind of working my contacts with my designers who also sold to her. And I said, Hey, I don't want to like come out and ask her, but you talk to her if she's having issues. Like, I want to come in. Maybe she should consider selling her business or getting out of her lease or whatever. Something. So I'm like working all angles trying to get her to like be done and um, from what I understand she was kind of an absentee owner anyways and so I think she kind of struggled letting it go, but once I was like, hey, it's in good hands, I'll take care of your brides, you know. Um. I've been there for a long time. Yeah, so It probably was more active before, but Probably. Whatever. Um, but yeah, so we'll say she was. Um, but yeah, she eventually called me Thanksgiving week and was like I'm considering this. I had never met her before. I didn't know her and so You've got like an email chain or something like that. No, nothing. I'd only worked through my like designers and my reps and they're like, so, um, long story short, she was like, yes. I'm ready to get out. And I was like, great, I only want your inventory. So I wasn't worried about buying her business. Right. Having that name. There's no value necessarily to that. Um, not to me. Even existing clients are gonna be like, well, there's a new person that owns the Wins their bridal store. Yeah. And it may have, you know, I think it was, it had a good reput, good enough reputation, but it just. I don't know, I wanted my brand in there, and I just liked the space more than anything. And so, finally got her to say yes, and then my landlord, this guy, was like, no, we've got like, the chamber moving in or something, and I'm like, duh. So it was so frustrating, and this is like the second time in my life that I've had to fight for my store to like, happen. And so, my, my one accountant friend that I had, he's like, you know, my wife and I call you, um, Plucky. He's like, that's the best term we have for you, and so I had to Google it, and it's basically somebody that, like That would be a really good chicken name. Yeah, Plucky. My wife and I have chickens. That's a good name! One who will not, like, do what they're supposed to do. Yeah, the fighter. Exactly. So, that was, you know, I fought him, and, you know, we negotiated a little bit, and Now, it worked out, but it was And now he's your landlord? Now he's my landlord. But you still think this building is worth way too much money to sell it to you? Yeah. I mean, there's in my contract is a clause, like first right of refusal, but Well, that's good at least. I don't know if I would even Now that I'm in there, I don't know if it's, like, something I would want long term. It's a converted gas station. Hmm. And I think, yeah, there's always potential liabilities associated with that and stuff. And yeah, you can definitely tell where like the cars used to go in and like kind of drops in the fitting room, but it's okay. Yeah. Um, so you spent, you still have your war chest then you're going to buy something? No, I don't. So that all went to buying this inventory in the store. So, yeah, so that was from, it was literally the Thanksgiving week, I got the call from her saying she would be done, and then I got him to sign. a lease with me mid December, and then we opened January 21st. So it was really fast and furious, and I had gone in being like, Nah, I'm just gonna move a couple things were like, things were too easy for a while anyway. Things were way too easy, and that was, you know, I told somebody the other day, I said, You know, I just went ahead and ruined my really perfect life by opening up this second list. But it's been good, I mean, I don't think I give myself enough credit, because it's the first year. because it was a store before. Right. I thought it'd be a little bit different. That was struggling. True, but I don't know, on paper we would lose brides to her, you know? And so, you know, come to find out she's just giving away dresses and that was part of what was going on. You can sell a lot if you don't know how to make a margin. Yeah, exactly. So, it was, it's been an interesting year and my staff, I honestly, like, have to speak so highly of them because They made it all happen. They got, like, boots on the ground over there, got everything going, and every time we have a pivot, um, which has been, like, three different times this year. When you change your mind, they all have to change their actions. Yeah, and they get it. I mean, they know why it's happening, but it's just, you know, they're the ones that have to implement it, for the most part, and they just Do you want to talk about the pivots? Oh, sure. So, well, the first pivot was like, I was just going to kind of throw some new furniture in there and go about my way, but as soon as we were in there, I was like, I hate everything about this place. And so I was like, frantically getting new carpet. I think I yelled at the guy from Carpet Exchange like five times and like, You should be fired. Sorry, Carpet Express guy. I mean, sorry, not sorry. Sorry, not sorry. That was the worst customer service I've ever been to. I won't get into it, but don't shop there. So, they, I did not use them for carpet in the end. Um, but, Just remodeling the whole place within like this short time period. Yeah, while you got a bunch of inventory in there and stuff or whatever. So that was like the first pivot. And it's spring. Yeah, well it's, yeah. The wedding season's coming fast. Well, our busy time is January through March. Oh. And so I'm like, okay, we have to be open. I thought I would literally like kind of just swoop in and open my doors. But there was that, you know, month time period where she was closing, we were opening, nobody knew what it was called. Like it was a lot, you know. Yeah. So that was the first. And then the whole, um. Reason I wanted that location was because she could carry, this is gonna get boring for people who like don't care about wedding dresses, but She carried a line that I couldn't carry because of territory in my 401's location And it was a very good selling line and our other competitor in town does very well with it So I said great. She's gonna leave. I'm gonna swoop in. I'm now gonna carry all the lines in town Because it was just outside of that territory or something now Yes, so and we have a good reputation in Fort Collins. I'm like, oh people go 20 minutes to Windsor and just shop there They didn't they were like, where's Windsor? Like we don't know if we want to go all the way there 20 minutes door to door literally town from their house at Fossil Creek Ranch. Yes, and we would get Wyoming girls so it's like 80 percent of our people are from Wyoming and they just like Would go to Denver after us, but not understand going to Windsor. Yeah, so it's brides are weird. Um, but Then I found out that Because she kind of did more off the rack sales meaning you take that dress and you just go. Yeah And she could discount them more that way She kind of got like a reputation for being this like the affordable wedding dress. Yes, which is one of my SEO hashtags Very much. So, um, so I said in July there's this national bridal sale event and I kind of told my rep who at some point when I wasn't going to have that store because he wouldn't sell, you know, lease to me said, well, you can still carry this brand in for a column. He wanted that business basically. So I was like, okay. This national bridal sale event is coming up. I'm just going to move this line to my Fort Collins store and make this like a month long sample sale and see how that does. And so July when we did that, so this is literally like moving our entire inventory from one to the other, the first pivot, second pivot maybe. Um, that was like the first month that we made our goal for the year. So we were like, great, this is a discount store, people like this, what we're doing. And it went. Like that, up until, um, November 15th, I get this very frantic call from my rep because the reason I can't carry that, you know, line in my store is this other store has it. And so they got wind of people Cheating you over them. Freaked out. He was like, I think there was a miscommunication. Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, yeah, I think there was. And so we had to then swap everything back. But We didn't swap everything back. It's still mostly off the rack. Now we have that line, which honestly, now that I have it, I'm like, it's fine. I could maybe do without it. So, moved it back over there. If we sell it off the rack, it's fine. If they want to purchase it new, they can do that too. Okay, yes, you're right, that was a long, boring video. Oh my god, I know! It's boring to do it! But I think it, what it does though, is it goes a little bit to help the mind of the non entrepreneur understand a little bit of the, not franticness, but about the constant decision tree that business people face. Well, because yes, I mean, once we were like, okay. I have to relay to my team that we can't do this, so there's communication going out about that. They have to physically move everything from one inventory system to a different inventory system. And then our website has to convey that message that this line is no longer in Fort Collins, it's only in Windsor. So it's all these like, you know, you're sounding the alarm. How do people find you? Good question, Kurt. No, I'm just kidding. Let me know. You do some SEO stuff, right, or whatever, and do you advertise? Like, are you on the radio, in magazines or newspapers? It is, it is mostly word of mouth. Oh, congrats on your best of no code. Thanks. By the way, didn't see you at the funny story. So, I've been boycotting Best of NoCo for the last two years. It was not even a category. Best Bridal Shop was not a category for a very long time. And like, much to my chagrin, it became one a few years ago. And so, it's a very long voting process. Yeah, July to September, months, the best marketing they could ever ask for, you know, and so we would blow up our brides with these requests for votes, right? It would be all over our social media, you know, like, that's all you thought about for three months. Yes. And, you know, free advertising for them. Right. Um, and yet when you win, they want to charge you 1, 500 for an app. So, uh, I, I love, and they sold a lot of ads this year. they drink the Kool-Aid. And I, it's so funny when you meet somebody who's deflected like me and we're just like, um, but, but you still won. So we won the first two years and then I was like, I don't wanna put our brides through this. It's so much work on our end just to kind of like do it. So we didn't do anything the last two years And you still won? No. Oh. So the, my competition won the last. Oh, you didn't win last year, this year. We won this past year, but the two previous years when we weren't voting, we didn't because why would we? Um, and. So they would, you know, put some stuff out on the socials, kind of bragging, and I was like, Okay, I think you're getting a little too big headed. It's time to make a comeback. And so this year, I think we sold, we sent out one text and won it. So it's, yeah. That's, uh, we won the best local podcast. Oh, nice. Congrats. And, uh, Let's check out my plaque. I know. Should I get the plaque? I got that email today. It's 300. What? No, it's only a hundred bucks. American, but still. It's still, it's a lot for a plaque. I don't know. I mean. It's gotta be a money printing machine for that business. That contest is making them all the money in the world. All the money, well, they probably lose money on all the rest of their stuff almost, but that contest. No, I mean, have you ever tried, I mean, their magazine is a, It's an advertisement. Oh, I know. And they, it's like three grand, like, base price to get a decent ad. Yeah. I got burned one time from them. Like, I used to advertise and I shouldn't talk about it. Yeah, we shouldn't talk about this in too much public. They do a lot of good. Yeah. Like, they bring a lot of visibility and activate people's audiences. I think that they're well known in the community and, but I just don't know if that's like It's definitely a pay to play kind of thing. A hundred percent. And it's not necessarily the best of NoCo. It's like, who wants to dance to our dance? Yeah. The loudest and we sent an email, I was like, Oh shit, that deadline's tomorrow. Alma, we got to send an email out to our whole everybody to ask them to vote for the podcast. Right. I know. And we won. There you go. I think it's like, yeah, that one little like, Midgett, there aren't that many local podcasts. Well, that date night got the second one, right? Yeah, something like that. Yeah, I haven't listened to that one yet. I haven't either, yeah. Yeah, so it goes. Um, so talk to me about the industry that you're in a little bit, like, business cycles and stuff. You said January through March is the, the high point for you? Yeah, I think people are surprised by that. We're in weddings. Weddings happen typically in the summer, but we, So, um, we are pretty slow in the summer, which is nice. I can give people vacation. We have people that graduate and leave, so staffing can kind of fluctuate then. People get engaged in the winter at the holidays. Right. And then once it finally turns the year of their wedding, they're finally like, Oh, I should buy this dress. Yeah, yeah. And that will help me figure out where I want to have my wedding. Exactly. Yeah. We're one of the first two stops. I think lately, photographers have been one of the first few stops too. Yeah. But it's typically the venue, the dress. So is that ultimately how you get a lot of business, is because the venues like you and the photographers like you? It's funny. No, it's other brides. It's their friends. Their friends have had a good experience. Our staff is really, you know, they're like me. We, we have fun. We are not high pressure. We are fun and fashionable and cute, I guess. I see, I wore my new, nice new logo shirt today. I know, it's cute. I like the logo. Um, but yeah, I think it's just, you know, when I first opened the store, David's Bridal was around, there was a couple other places, but there wasn't a place for who I, as a future bride, I was single when I opened the store, but Well, I had just met my husband. I think I could say I was single. Singlish. Yeah, singlish. Um, gray. So, I was like, gosh, I wouldn't go to David's Bridal, but I wouldn't be able to afford anything beyond that. So, I was hoping to make a place that was cute, and You anticipated my next question. That's your, because David's Bridal is like a big national chain, right? Yeah, but they gone. Oh, they're gone. Oh, the mall killed them? Um, I think they just Or the whole chain. Yeah, they went bankrupt a few times. So, I don't know if they have closed all their stores, but I think all of their Colorado stores are closed. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, so Is there a Mr. Neats around still? No. That's gone. That's been gone forever. I don't really do this business. We're in Texas all the time. Is that where you got your tux? Um, I don't even know, I had Jennifer Lewis on, uh, a few months ago, and, uh, we talked about the Mr. Needs journey a little bit, um, what, so who is your competitive landscape then? Um, there are a few in town. When I opened, it was funny, I had, um, SBA funding, and so I had to write this very extensive business plan. Sure. Um, and. There's a lot of market research and stuff. Oh my god. Some projections, and, which was great, I mean, I think I'm in the spot I am now because I had to do all of that. But. While I was doing that, maybe in that six month period, two of the stores that were in my market analysis went out of business. So it's a really interesting business. I think a lot of people get into it because it seems fun. That's the number one comment we hear. And this seems fun. Um, while the mom's like yelling at us in the background. No, it's so fun. But, um, I think you have to have a little bit of passion for, uh, portion of that, but have a good business sense too, or else you can get underwater really easily. Um, like, what's the value proposition to, like, why don't people just order their wedding dresses online? Like, retailers are suffering all over the place. I'm sure some do. Okay, so. Well, there's a part where Um, if you're, I mean, you've bought clothes online before. Barely. No? Okay. Well. I basically have boycotted Amazon. Oh good. Yeah. I make Alma order stuff for me on Amazon if I need it. Or my wife, Jill. I like that. I need a wife. Um, so I would say that you cannot bring your entourage while you're shopping online. True. Um. There is something to be said for seeing this kind of a garment on your body. Even David's Bridal, you know, their stock photos are awesome. Well, yeah, because those people have perfect bodies. But they also have all the, like, undergarments on. Oh, really? Oh, interesting. So, David's Bridal dresses don't have So how's this gonna look on me if I go commando? Yeah, like boning and things like that's how they upsell you there. You're like, yes, this dress is 99 But to make it look good, you need to have a corset and all of this stuff underneath it. And so now it's 2, 000 So we were actually more competitive with David's than people really understand So I think that's part of it. People want to like know what a dress looks like on their body. I mean, when we even some brides, we have one color in our store and maybe that dress is available in a second color, a color way as we call it in the biz. Um, they cannot imagine it another color. So we have to get this other color in to see it on their body. You know, it's so it's a very personal Garment. Yeah. Yeah. And it's tricky. I'm starting to understand a bit. I mean, we've got a box in my basement, you know, up high to make sure that if there's ever a flood down there, it ain't going to get the wedding dress. Exactly. You know, even though it probably will sit there until we die and somebody gives it away to the state. I don't know. And it's one of those things in the wedding where I know, you know, people make their budgets and some people invest in whatever. Um, but I'm always like, you know. You don't want to spend two hundred more dollars on this dress because your budget's very tight I said, but when you go to hang up a picture, it's not gonna be of your centerpiece Yeah, it's gonna be of you in your dress. Yeah, so make it a good one Yeah, make it the one you want for sure So well and I bet everybody listening would like reflect on a time where where they saw the bride come out of the doors Or through the arch or whatever. It was like wow, I've never seen that woman look more beautiful And that's the goal, right? You want to look the most beautiful you ever have on your wedding day. And what's 200? I'm always like, don't invite your cousin, you know? That's fine. Yeah, I dig it. Um, so Do you rent stuff, too? No. Like, so you're just a, it's a retail business. You buy stuff, you sell stuff, you custom order if you need to. Mm hmm. Yeah, so I work with different designers and I buy inventory from their design. So let's say one of my designers. Twice a year I go and I look at their new collections and they have, you know, maybe 50 dresses that they came out with. I have to purchase 12 of those. Okay. For example. Right, right. Um, and, you know, they, they all start to look white after a while and Is that you? Are you the, the buyer still mostly or you have helpers with you? I have a lot of help. My, I'm not in the trenches as much as I was when I first started. Right. As you can imagine, I mean, I, I know Alma's name because She's Alma, and there's not that many running around town, but, um, yeah, I, I definitely value their opinion on what we should get. I mean, at the end of the day, they, No, I have the ultimate say and it's also my store. It's my taste and yeah, but I'm also not the target market anymore, right? So and if your reps are talking to people and they're like, you know, I wish you had one of these They'd be like, hey Timree next season get more of these with the open back or whatever Exactly. So I take into account, you know I think, I think when I, we go to buy, they don't always hear the rep saying, Hey, this is a really hot dress in your region, or this is why this is a hot dress in your region. And so in my opinion, I'm like, well, this dress kind of sucks, but we should get it. Right. Um, they want to get just what's pretty to them. And that's not how it works. You have to buy for your brides. Yeah, anticipate other people's tastes. You know, there's gonna be some brides that want to look more country. Lots of country brides. We got lots of country brides. Right? And are hip and modern. Right? Yeah. And it's not about. Your taste it's about your your customers taste. Yeah What else would you have people know about the business as is we're gonna jump in the time machine soon The business as is well, you know, we're just our third start coming. God. No, no Unless somebody's got something planned No, I really now that this Windsor location is figured out. I think it's going to be stable. I'm really, I'm looking forward to 2024. We, it was a wild ride through COVID. Um, we were closed for six weeks as you know, most retail was, and the remainder of that year was weird. And then. 2021 and 2022 were our best years yet. And then, you know, we all saw the writing on the wall, I guess, and we were like, this is not sustainable. There's no way. But it was the backlog of all those COVID rides that didn't get married. And then they finally, like, you know, 2022 was the year. And then, so at the end of 2022, and I was like, yes, this is great. Second location. It just kind of slowed down. Yeah. So, you know, I'm looking forward to 2024 being more stable, not only with the second location but just like with brides and weddings and getting back to normal. Yeah, that's one interesting thing about your business, as I reflect, is that, like, with Loco Think Tank, people can choose to or not choose not to buy it, right? Yeah. I've got almost an unlimited potential customer, not unlimited, but there's a couple three thousand business people in the region, and any of them could be a member. You can't really make people want to get married. No. Like, you can get market share away from Amazon or away from your competition in the region or people going to Denver, but you can't really Spurred demand like people don't just get married so they can buy a dress like hey They will get married. Um, yeah, they'll get married. They'll think they're getting married and then they don't. We've had a tonsillation. Oh, really? Yes. It's interesting. Yeah, our theory is everybody kind of like got locked down together. Yeah, they're like, let's do this. We're living together. We can do this. And then they meet all their friends. Yes. They meet all their friends and family and their real life and they're like, wait. I love it. I think that's got some validity. Right? I like that hypothesis. I think so. It was really funny. So not funny for our brides, obviously, but It's been an interesting few years with COVID. So should we talk about COVID now? Um, or do you want to, yeah, let's do that now, while it's fresh. Gotta, gotta garble it up. As it's coming back up. What's his name? Yeah. Uh, can't get caught by the censors. Um, so you were a member of LOCO at that time, right? Yeah. Like, uh, when were you a member? Like, um, gosh, I think I started 20. 17, maybe 2018. I bet it was 2018. It was 2018 because I think I was in the UBA Hutt building over i in the fall. I distinctly remember our first conversation. It was in the fall of 2018. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I, I think I was done like maybe spring of 21. Okay. Yeah. So did Covid have anything to do with that? Um, no. It honestly wasn't. And you know, my group will tell you this, like I. When it was my turn to present I kind of felt like I made up problems not that like I have everything figured out But when I had a problem, I solved it like a vanilla ice, I guess But you didn't let it fester. It didn't fester. I feel like I'm a decision maker and you know I didn't really there wasn't a lot for me to talk about when it was my turn So that was just kind of your business was a lot more Yeah. It really was. Yeah. Like you had all tons of demand and stuff. Just the single location that you've been running for. Yeah. 10 years or more. It'll be 13 in March. Yeah, so at that time it was that. 10, yeah. And so, um, yeah, I think I stayed through COVID because we were all like, Whoa, what's Well, if your staff would have called me and said, Timree's driving us crazy last year, I would have called on you and said, Hey, maybe you should get some loco back in your life. No, they, uh, they have stuck with it's this year that they would have called you and been like, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, no, this January, January needs you back. She's scared to admit it, but I mean, it, it was an awesome group and like, I've made some really good connections out of there and, um, but yeah, it was just to the point where I was like, I don't know what I'm also contributing to the group. You know, it gets to, you know, this, you know, I don't know what they call it, imposter syndrome, where you, I guess, you know, you're successful, but you're like, I don't know what I did to do this. Well, but that's, uh, that's part of the craft. Yeah. Anyway, let's go back into that. We don't need to, this is not going to be an interview of why you left local think tank and what we would have to do to get you back, although we can add that in later. Um, no, but COVID season, let's talk about the, like where you were. Oh my God. I remember because I remember talking to. Um, this friend of mine and we were also doing a podcast at the time. Oh really? Yeah. And. Before COVID. Before COVID. Almost nobody started a podcast before COVID. Yeah. And she didn't read the news and I was like, there's like something going on. She's like, what do you mean? And it was just funny. I remember telling her about this and it was when the cruise ship was like, you know. Right, right. I remember that. And. And the MBA was freaking out. Oh my God. Yes. What's wrong with doing it? Oh yeah. Yeah. Cause nothing was going to happen. Um, and. Finally, my staff, I was basically like, Okay, I think we're going to have to close for two weeks. Because at that time it was two weeks. We were all going to go into lockdown. Yes, and then it was going to be done. Nobody ever thought that that was going to work. Never. Like, even the people that instructed that to be done. They just didn't want to freak people out right away. I mean, I was for sure like two weeks, we're home. Fix it right up. No, I knew that was never going to work. I was living in a bubble and, but luckily it happened in March. So we are like midway through our busy time. We're cash heavy. I'm sending everybody home, keeping them on the payroll. And um, I was just telling them, you know, I'll give you projects as we can. Yeah. I hate getting on those, like, message boards with other owners because they are just, like, doom and gloom, you know, and everyone's freaking out, like, starting all these, you know, trying dresses on at home and sending things and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I'm just gonna sit here and, like, watch my kids and survive. Um, so then it became, you know, week after week after week. Right. And I had, luckily, Well, nobody could get married because you couldn't put that many people in a room. You couldn't get married. Um, the funding, all of the PPP kept me busy, you know, trying to just get all these funds that were coming available. But, like I said, we were still in an okay spot financially. Like, we could, you know, keep people employed for a while. We, um, we needed to be at the store to get shipments, so, you know, I could pay people to go by themselves and accept UPS packages. Let's set up a different Yeah. Uh. Exactly. Play out to the floor. Yeah. I know. Let's see what it looks like with that over there. It was interesting. So, um, and my husband, you know, his job, he's an essential employee, which he's not, but he was like, What's he do? He works for Caliber Collision. He's a regional manager for them. Right next door to me? Yeah. So that's one of his jobs. Yeah. Um, but. You know, people gotta get there. I'm like, nobody's driving. Like, stay home with me. Help me. Um, and so it was like between him being out all the time and me having a business that I wanted to survive. We were just kind of like, okay. We're going to be okay, let's take the precautions necessary, make people feel safe and bring people back. And so when we were able to open again, you know, people, I think, thought they were going to get married that summer. Right. So people were like rushing in to get married. We had a really big rush that summer. Great June and July. Yes. To the point where I planned, you know, a pretty good Christmas party. And then they re locked down in September, which was Oh my god, I, I was so depressed. I was so angry. I was mad because we were like, closing down again, and then, not closing, I don't think we had to close again. No, just very mask y, and distancing, and all the restrictions. Yeah, all that came back, and nobody was hosting events anymore, and so, you know, I'm like a party person, and when they had to like, cancel my Christmas party, I was so depressed, and so, um, But then, you know, fast forward, we're out of lockdown, we're back. Yeah, not only pent up demand, uh, but maybe extra demand because people were like, I guess I'll get married to you, it's been seven years and this hasn't been so bad, you know, it's been better than being all by myself, locked down for months at a time. That's who I felt the worst for was like. Single people living alone. Oh my gosh, I know. I would have given them one of my kids though. Just to borrow for the day. How old are your children? No, they're great. They're about to turn 7, about to turn 9. We'll come back to them in the family section. So yeah, that was an interesting, it was an interesting time. And then, you know, 2021, it was, I mean, COVID was great for our business because people would bring 20 people with them if they could to shop for a dress. Right. And people were extra juicy too. They had extra people. So we had to be like two people, sorry. Right. And it was magical. Oh, it just didn't require as much of your time and attention. Eight people in a room with us. Yeah, well, decisions don't have to get made by committee. Yes. It's like me and my bride, uh, maid of honor. It's who really want here? That's great. So, that was a blessing. We've kind of kept that in play, um, since then. Unless you want to rent the extra special bridal party room. Then you can do the full service treatment. Yes. So, we got it. Um, so, some good things came out of COVID. Obviously, you know, busy and blah, blah, blah. But, it was, it was also an interesting time, I guess, for me on a personal level. I've always been, you know, wondering what I'm doing with the store. And, I think I've been trying to like, Get rid of it since 2016 and my accountants like, don't get rid of your store. So, um, I've been hanging in there and trying to like revitalize my passion for it and find new ways. And then once COVID hit, I was like, Oh, this is a challenge. This is a challenge. A and B. You might not say that to yourself. Yeah, but it was, it was an interesting new development and it also, you know, I wasn't. worried about getting laid off or, you know, what my future was. I was completely in charge and that's like my vibe for everything in my life. Um, to have like complete control over my future really made me revitalize my passion with this business. So it was good and bad in so many ways. Talk to me about your future. Fear of my fear, like as COVID rolled in, was your fear for your health, for your business, for your people? And how did it change over time? I guess in the beginning my parents live here, you know, they're vulnerables, right? Right. Um, I was worried about them. And I was never really, we, I don't get sick often. I'm just not a, like, getting sick person and we were doing things right. People with littles. Yeah, no, I don't. They don't. They're all over me and I just don't get sick still, so. But it was surprising. I didn't get sick until, I mean, I didn't get COVID until, pfft, May of 22 or something. Oh wow, you were a survivor for sure. I'm a survivor and I'm here to talk about it. Um, but yeah, so, not so much like the getting sick, just like keeping, That was when I kind of you learned who your staff was and like for sure their beliefs, I guess. Yeah Well, I'm trying to be trying to satisfy all of those Was a political nightmare. I had an employee handbook this entire time but I have never had to call an HR company as many times as I had as I had to during kovat because the weirdest people on my staff came out of the woodwork with like Things that I'd never expected from them. Interesting. Um, and just weird ways. And so I was constantly like navigating, like, do I have to do this for them? Like blah, blah, blah. I mean, even this past week we had an employee get COVID and, you know. She was home because it was Thanksgiving and was coming back and she's like, I'm starting to feel better. Do you want me to come back? I'm out of PTO. And I'm like, well, if you want to come back, I'm happy to have you come back. You know, like you can mask up. You can stay in the back. She doesn't meet with brides or anything like that. And you know, we still had people like worried to work with her. Freaking out. Yeah. And I'm like We are in the world of vaccines. We're in the world of like, you know, you can take precautions on your own. Like, I was like, this is not 2020. And it's been four days or six days since this person caught it. And she's feeling better. She doesn't have a fever. Like, we, I was like, I cannot deal with this right now. It was like PTSD from 2020. So flashbacks. Yeah, so yeah, it was and so yeah as time grew it was like, okay Worried about health and then I was like, okay now I need to like make sure we're gonna be opening back up And then there got to be a time period where you know We've got people's dresses coming in and we need to get them in to try them on and you know Our our reps my designers were forgiving in a way with you know, take all this Inventory that you can order kind of is kind of I didn't have to pay for it right away. Yeah so through the rack, yeah, exactly exactly, but it was just kind of like okay, like there's like definitely like a A cliff that's coming if we don't open back up soon. So that was That's what that got to. And then once we did open, it was like, now we're busy. Yeah. I mean, we had all these Wyoming people coming down and they were like, well, you don't have to wear masks in Wyoming. I'm like, we're in Colorado. Sorry. I don't know what to tell you. So it was just a lot, you know, and I'm just like a non, I don't like confrontation. I will be very blunt with you and honest, but I'm not like, yeah, yeah, I would say I'm kind of that way. I'll do me. All day, you do you all day. Exactly. But that kind of mentality, like, only made you a pariah sometimes. Yes, exactly. In that time and space, you had to decide what you believe first, fiercely. And I was like, this is my store, eh? Like, I have, like, laws to follow, ma'am, so you have to put on a mask. And then they would show you these, like, fake, like, badges. Like, uh, exception cards or something. It was wild. I'm like, it is, it was crazy. Well, uh, I'm glad that, uh, Things are more stable now. Um, let's uh, jump in the time machine. Jump in the time machine. Is there music? Is there a transition here? It's right there. We should sing the Back to the Future song. Do you know the Back to the Future song? What is their main theme song there? All I can think of is Danger Zone, but that's all I've got. Twilight Zone? No. What is it? That's going to bother me now. Uh, would you care to have a quick karaoke contest? Hey, I'm all about the karaoke. I'm standing in the Twilight Zone. I don't know this Twilight Zone song. This is a madhouse. Feels like. Something, I don't know the words. Who's Twilight Zone by? I don't know. It's not that. I don't know. It was on the top of your head. I don't know. I can just sing. I can't tell you artists and stuff like that. That's beyond my scope. I got you. But I have a list of songs that pop into my head in the shower in the morning. And Twilight Zone is one of them. No, not now, but it might be tomorrow. You just wrecked it. Um, I was living in COVID nation again, I guess. Imagine a virus so deadly, you must be tested to know if you have it. Sorry, I'm egging you on. Um, so Timree's four years old. Where is she? That's what the time machine took us to write that time and place. I am in Elgin, Illinois. Okay. Uh, that's where I live. Just outside of Chicago? Just outside of Chicago. College town of some sort. No, Elgin's not. Not a college town. Not that I know. Just a major suburb. Yeah, it's a big suburb. Um, I grew up, I, It was there until five and then we moved to South Bend, Indiana. So that's where I grew up, in South Bend. Yeah. So tell me about South Bend. Well, home of Notre Dame. Right. The Fighting Irish. It has to dominate that Everyone The whole culture, right? Yeah. The whole community It's like Green Bay, but for college football. Yes. And I like to say, you know The community loved Notre Dame. I wouldn't say that Notre Dame loved the community. It's a private college. It's a very wealthy, you know. Hoity toity in comparison to the blue collar that surrounds it. Yeah, I worked at the bookstore there in high school and um, It was just funny, I stole keychains and mesh shorts and I was like, blah, blah, blah. You don't pay me enough. Um, no. So you justified I did. stealing by the lack of property. Who knew I would have a retail store in the future? Right. So, you know, karma. What do you do with your employees if you catch them stealing? Um, you know, I haven't caught anybody stealing yet. Not even giving their friend a hookup on a dress or anything like that? No. I mean, sometimes I come back and there's a weird discount and I'm like I don't know this person, you know, but it's not like nothing like that. No. So, uh, so tell me about Timree, uh, middle school. Oh my God. I was such a huge dork. No, I wasn't a huge dork. I think, um, I've always not had like looks on my side. And so, yeah, my husband will tell you, I didn't have a glow up until like 2005. So maybe not even then, 2007. Yeah. Yeah. So. I mean, but that had to, I had to hone my personality, if you will. I was always, I had a lot of friends, like, and friends with people who, I'm like, why did they hang out with me? Because I was You were witty and charming. I guess. And open with your thoughts. Yeah. And, um, yeah. What'd be my guess? Very just, like, you know. In your face? So Yeah, I was. Were you tall? I was like a normal size. So I'm one of those people who appears tall, but I'm not tall. I just read about this the other day even even either like you're tall and you're you don't appear tall You're not tall and you big heels on or nothing. I'm not even 5'7 Are you really not? No, I'm shrinking. I know. Talk to my doctor. Yeah, I find it hard to believe too. So Yeah, middle school, I mean I really liked school. I was always a good student. I always had like a good amount of friends. Um, never got super caught up with boyfriends. Shockingly, if you look back at pictures, it's no surprise. I always loved boys, according to my diaries that I just dug up. But, um, they did not know me. Interesting. Um, but yeah, I mean, I would go back to high school in a heartbeat. What was your family environment? What did your folks do? Did you have brothers, sisters? Yeah, I have an older brother, Matt. So he is funny. He's only about three years older than me, but in school he was four years older. So we didn't go to high school together. So I was kind of, it felt like I was the only child in high school, which is like a time when you kind of come into your own and are breaking the rules and doing all that stuff. Looking back, it's interesting. Um, we're close enough. We're not like calling everybody, you know, every day. He grew up and I grew up and then, you know. My mom and dad are awesome. They're still married. Still back there? No, we moved them out here in 2018. My nephew was a little bit older and my kids were young. And so they decided they would come out to Colorado and leave their house of 30 years. And yeah, we never hear about it. Bring literally everything they had with them out here. So, um, but it's awesome. We're so glad they're out here, but yeah, it was. I mean, I had a really good childhood. Yeah. Fairly straightforward, sounds like. Very. Um, what was the next step for you? Mhmm. I guess, I guess high school was next, but were you a good student all through? I was. And tell me about the first time you really got in trouble. The first time? Oh, I'll tell you about the first time I got in trouble. It's funny, I never really, well, if you ask my parents, it was third grade and I got like the gifted and talent, like the gifted and talented, like, home in the mail, and they just made so much fun of me. They were like, oh, you're gifted, you know, like they did not let me have a minute with that at all, and so I was just kind of grew up being like, well, this is how I am. Kids are like everyone is smart. Um, and then the first time I got in trouble was seventh grade There was I was in band played the trombone and there was a band concert. That might have been what chased the boys away I mean first chair, they didn't want to compete so There was a band concert and a track meet on the same night, which was you know a big deal Okay, because if you were in track you had to go to band right you couldn't run track I was only in band, not in track, but you know, solidarity. Um, and in 7th period, we were gonna walk out. The band was? Anybody who was in track or band. Oh, really? I honestly think the whole 7th grade had plans to walk out, from what I remember. Right, right. Well, I'm in this class and I'm like, all right, let's do this. I closed my literature book and like four of us got up and walked out of the class. That was all. We like meet up in the hallway of the middle school and like nobody else is there. But I was like, hey, I made a promise to my friends. We were doing this and I'll never forget it. Who was the organizer of this? I don't know. I have no idea. But I was like Were they even there? No. I'm like, stalled. Like, I'll get up in class. What's gonna happen to me? You're an anti authoritarian. Yeah. I don't know. And I'm not. I'm such a rule follower. Well, that doesn't mean you're not an anti authoritarian. Okay. Maybe that was it. Like, I'll follow the rules, too. Unless you think you're my boss. Yeah. Or maybe Somebody's being wronged. Yeah. Exactly. Justice warrior. Yes. Yeah. Maybe that's more accurate. I think that is. Um, and I'll never forget it because it was a solar eclipse that day. Oh, wow. So when my mom picked me up, because obviously I like had to go home the rest of the day, um, she was disappointed to say the least. And she's like, don't look up. It's the eclipse. Because, because the sun is actually less bright on other days. Yeah. Yeah. So it was funny. Um, I'll just always remember that. And it's just, it's, it's so kind of. on and off brand for me. Like, yeah, I like it. Yeah. So that was middle school and then high school. I was a good kid. I mean, didn't really get into trouble. I didn't get into trouble. I mean, I did sneaky things, but I'm smart, you know, smart the whole time. Yeah, you don't get caught. Don't get caught. If you're going to do bad things, don't get caught. My mom caught me with like a pack of cigarettes once, which like, I don't know why, but everyone smokes in high school, right? You're all like doing that. Um, and she woke me up one morning and she's like, What is this? And I was like, what do you think? Yeah. So we had to like go all the way to the gas station that sold it to me. There was like one notorious gas station where it was like the only self serve one in town or like full service one. So that's where we did it at. And she like chewed them out. You know, and she's like, this girl is 16 years old, like, you sold it to her. Oh, and then fill it up with gas for service, and then, oh, would you get me a pack of Motorolaights, too? Yep. Sweet thing. That's how you do it, Liam. That's it. Too smart. I was, I don't know. I don't know what I was trying to do. I think I was like, just You know. Trying to break the rules where I could because nobody cared, you know. I just kind of like Yeah. Was a good Just testing boundaries really. Testing boundaries. I mean it's like baby birds don't just fly. Like they gotta flap their wings for a while before they jump. I was a huge klepto. Like there was a time when I was like Really? Always like, hmm, I know. Persona. It's weird. So. Yeah, I don't like to, I don't, yeah, it was a weird time. Never did any time for that? Never did any time. Or actually busted? No, it was the time of, I'll never forget it, so it was when I was working at the bookstore, which I had gone on to as my second job because my first job was factory card outlet in that place. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so they sell very cheap cards. I made 4. 25 an hour there, and I was pumped about it, but then when the Notre Dame bookstore was hiring at 6. 25, I had to go. And then you still weren't satisfied. I mean, yeah, I was like, it was the time of cargo pants, like baggy cargo pants. So, and I had to wear an apron. And so I had to, I would put the mesh shorts like down my pants, pull my apron over it, go to the bathroom, put the shorts on, and then I would put key chains in my pocket. Oh gosh. It was bad. How many keychains did you need? I mean, my friends needed keychains. You paid three bucks a piece for them? We had, I still have a pair of the mesh shorts that I sold, so, you know, it's so funny. So um, yeah, so now to get back to the proper next big transition point, and by the way, what year did you graduate high school? I graduated in 99. 99. Okay. I thought you were maybe more younger than me, but great. Love to hear that. Yeah, you know, clean living. So where's off to college or I assume that was part of your journey? Yeah. Yeah, it was um, that was another thing that was always, you know, I think my life was always a a succession of assumptions, like, you know. Kind of assumed. Assumed that I would go to college, yeah of course I'm getting into this. Unless she gets really good grades, she wasn't gifted and talented way back in third grade or something like that. No, no, I was pre med, don't worry about it. Oh. Yeah, I had done this whole like medical explorer thing, I mean I was Take an honors physics. Yeah. Your girl was smart. I cheated my way through that class, but that's okay. Um, who needs physics? Well, the universe does. Engineers. Gravity. I don't know if the universe needs physics or physics needs the universe, but. We've all got computers. Um, so yeah, I, I just knew that I didn't want to go to IU or Purdue or everybody else was going. Yeah. Um, and that was kind of probably the first, you know, stray from the norm of my life that I decided to do. And so the summer before you decide on colleges, I worked with this gal who went to the University of Tennessee. And at the time they had like a really good football program, went down to a game, I was sold. Um, so yeah. And it was far. But not so far, you couldn't drive home for the weekend if you really wanted to. Yeah, I had, you know, I had scholarship money from Ohio State and I said, No, no, I would like to pay for all of my college, Your parents were like My parents didn't know, you know, I was like first gen. Really, yeah, same. My brother was the first one to go to college, you know, they didn't, they just knew we would get financial aid and call it a day. Right, right, and it was good at that time, like if you didn't make a bunch of money, you could get Pell Grants and different things too. Yeah, exactly, totally. And at the time, Tennessee was not Unaffordable, I guess, so they were excited for me. Yeah. Adventure. I mean, I wasn't like, yes, they have a great pre med program, which I probably should have thinking back, you know? You could have sold that better. Yeah. I don't know. I just was like living on a dream and going wherever I felt like it. Anything that was like what everybody was. Yeah. So tell me, give me uh, kind of your college experience. Like, you're very achiever biased, right? Like, you're trying to get into med school, so you pretty much gotta get all A's. Yeah. So, um, I went there and I, My parents were great, but I mean if it tells you anything about like my, how I was brought up, like my mom sent me with instructions on my laundry basket because I did nothing. Oh boy. Yeah, so it was just kind of like school was always easy to me in high school, you know, I worked hard. That was your expectation. It was easy, you know, I wasn't like, oh god, I gotta go home and study. It just, it happened and so, but I'm a very social person and if I don't have homework or you know, I'm not Yeah. Going above and beyond. On my own. And. Again, nobody told me about college. Yeah, where there's 300 people in your freshman level classes and nobody cares if you show up or not. Exactly. Nobody told me you could drop classes. So, my freshman year I had chemistry and in Tennessee there is this set of buildings on top of the hill. They literally call it the hill. Um, and I had this chemistry class at 11 in the morning and I could not get up for it. It was awful. I was such a waste of space. Um, Cause you were out partying? I mean I was in a sorority and I just I like to sleep at the time. I mean, you know, I get why people sleep till noon. I could do it. Really? Yes. Still? Not still. Um, but back then, yeah. Interesting. I've always pretty much been a, you know, 5 to 7 a. m. No. Best. Even if I'm hungover, I get home from the bar at 2. 45, I'm up at like 7. 15. No. Not me. Not me. So that was tough to get to. And then, when I started not doing well, I Didn't know I could drop classes. Mm-Hmm. And so I had this huge like, you know, incomplete on my transcript for a long time. And that happened with a couple classes because they were either really hard and I didn't know I could drop'em or, well, I mean, it's not that hard to walk to the top of the hill. It was it was hot. Have you been to Tennessee in September? I have not hungover and it was. And it is for chemistry class! Yeah, and it was for chemistry class! Which I was like, Oh, boring! Yeah, and they don't like assign homework. You know, it's just kind of like, This is what you're supposed to be learning. Figure it out. Yeah, yeah. I didn't get it. So, needless to say, I had to switch my major. Um, and that's fine. And at the time, I was in my 5th year of Japanese. Okay! Going back to high school, I gather? I took 4 years in high school, and then I would I was taking another year in college at the point, at that point. And so I thought I should do international business. Um, but I was like, you know, I don't ever want to go to Japan. I have no desire to do this because when you're in that class, you're learning about like rural Japan, how, you know, like the youngest person gets the bath last. I don't know. It was like not something I thought I would do or could see myself. Well, but Tokyo was already like this world class city and stuff. But. Nobody was introducing me to that. Fair. And, you know, even my high school teacher, sensei, Wolfgang, Wolfgang sensei, She, um, she was like, you know, fluent in Japanese, but couldn't even read a newspaper still. A female high school teacher was named Wolfgang sensei? Yeah, well, Bonnie Wolfgang was her full name. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so, yeah, Wolfgang Sensei is how you say it. And I was like, well, if she is fluent, cannot even read a newspaper, I have no chance. You know, I'm like, what is the point of this language? So, I don't know. It felt, it felt, I felt defeated before I even started. Um, and, But at least business was interesting. Yeah, so I was like, well, Not really. I just, I'm like a really push the easy button kind of gal. And I didn't want to go longer than four years. And the way my classes were, I was, Set up to graduate on time with a communications major. I was just gonna say communications! I almost wanted to say that. Sorry to all your communications majors out there. No, I mean, I love hiring communications majors. I neglected that. We have wine, but do you want to smoke a joint? Oh no, I'm okay. I do have to parent tonight. That stays there. I like that. Now that I know. Just in case. Yeah, well we should have done it earlier. I know. If you want to really hear my stories. No, I would not be able to talk. I just keep it there, uh, just in case. Sometimes it goes four, five, six podcasts, but usually somebody takes me up on it. Good, I'm glad. That's more Collins. They don't always want to do it on the camera. Oh yeah, that's true. Yeah. Um. So yeah, so, I mean, I was in a sorority, it was like the best time of my life, um, I was the Southies. Communications was so easy. Your parents weren't really critical because you're still a first generation college student on track to graduate. Yeah, I was president of my sorority, like, you know. What do they care if you're coasting to a Yeah. I still had a degree. I think they just assumed that, like, things worked out for me and, like, things did work out for me. So I was like, this is fine. And then 9 11 hit. A lot of doctors would love to have your existence. I mean, shoot. I was going to be, I was going into sports medicine, which is very funny, because Oh, interesting. I mean, I'm like. Cause you weren't really super athletic. I mean, I played tennis. I don't know why I was drawn to that. Yeah. I did some shadowing stuff and. Cute boys? Maybe. I don't think I could ever been like a manager of like a, you know, with the white sneakers out there just with my braids. I don't know. That wasn't me either. So it all worked out. Needless to say. Fair enough. Um, but yeah, 9 11 hit and I was. It was my junior year, and I remember being like, Oh, okay, well this sucks. And then, I had no idea nobody would be hiring. Mmm. And Yeah, it was a pretty good little recession there. It sucked. Two, three, yeah. So, nobody was hiring. I didn't want to stay in Tennessee. And so You know, when you look for jobs, nobody wants to hire you if you're not there. Um, and this is me who had like an internship every semester of every year on top of like president. I was so many activities and you stole at least 35 keychains from the bookstore. At that point, I was like not stealing anymore. That's good. That's good. Those ways were done. Um, but yeah, it was. A really depressing time for somebody who really Yeah, you're like, I'm a winner. Like, if anybody gets a job, I should get a job. I was working hard. Yeah. Um, and so Your first taste of humble pie. It was bullshit, actually. It was your you didn't like it. No, I went home. Just like in the worst mood ever, and I worked at Lone Star Steakhouse. And I literally had this Were you starting to blossom by this time so you could get some decent tips? No. Not really? Not yet. No, I was literally so chunky from like, being just partying in college and it was wild. Like, my hair was weird, it's just, it's fine. I had a good personality curve. I'm sure, I'm sure. You were a fun girl. Yeah, I was fun. No, no, no, no, no, no. Not that way. No, Just kidding, but um, no, I've worked at Lone Star because I had to and I had this like bracelet from the university and I remember wearing that every day to work so people who were rude to me at lunch, I could be like, I went to college, did you go to college ma'am? Like here's your fucking blooming onion. Okay. Oh. I thought you said you weren't pretentious earlier. No, no. You used to be a little bit. Well they were playing with, like it was coop, I don't know. Some people are annoying at Lone Star Steakhouse. They are. Yes. Just people in general are annoying. Like, it could be any customer any day. It's me sometimes. It's my mom sometimes. Yeah. Like, we're all that person sometimes. I'm super annoying sometimes. Little flashes of annoyingness in between large sections of amazingness. Exactly. I know. I know. It's very few and far between for us, right? I need to pass once in a while. I know, right? Just to make sure I'm a human. So you're like living in your old room, kind of, with your folks. Your brother's long gone, I guess. Yeah, he's working. He's, um. And you're humping at a Lone Star Steakhouse. I'm like, what is this? And so No boys this whole time? No serious boys? No. No. I think my first boyfriend was like, I had one junior year of high school and that lasted for like six months. I broke up with him on Valentine's Day. Ouch. Kind of dead inside. Um, and it's, that was just that. And then, yeah, it was like a while until I had another boyfriend. Like a while. Um, so Um, I luckily had a friend from my sorority, so for people who are just like, poop on sororities, Sororities are cool. There's contacts, like, you know, she got an internship because she was gonna be a fifth year in Chicago at this, you know, advertising company, like a, um, radio station selling air basically. So, um, I interviewed there because of her and luckily got that job and my other friend who also had to come back and wait tables was like looking at a job in Chicago and we were like, get us out of here. So I moved to Chicago and worked for a radio station or selling ads or something for this. It was. Yeah. So actually my, my major, my, my degree is in communications, but my major was. Um, I took a couple of broadcasting classes that were like crash and burn, like my radio lady was like, no, and I was like, okay, I get it. Um, but yeah, so that worked out really well and you know, I just made stupid decisions like at that. You're just stupid and you're just like, I'm going to do whatever. I tried really hard to get into this training program to become like an account executive and with that training program you could potentially get placed wherever. And at the time I was having a lot of fun with my friends. In Chicago, being young professionals. Right. Um. Chicago was a very sexy place to live back then, especially. It's fun. I mean, it is still now. It probably is still pretty cool. It's pretty cool. It's just like midwestern city. Post COVID it's not quite as sexy as it used to be. I think people They didn't wreck it as bad as Portland. No, it's fine. I mean, if you go downtown, you're like, this is Chicago. Right. I, I don't think I could tell the difference post and pre Covid. Mm mm. And I go back a lot. It's always been shitty cold when I've been to Chicago. Well, that's why I moved. Yeah. I mean, I lived there. I had a great time. Like, the, the pizzas are great. The people are beautiful. And it's fuckin beautiful. Yes. Like colder than North Dakota. Like it isn't really colder than North Dakota, but it feels colder because there's all this wind. And wind and, yeah. And you're in the elements all the time. Like in North Dakota you go from your house to your garage to your car to wherever you're You leave your car running while it's in the grocery store parking lot. Yeah. I, you were just in the elements constantly. And like for the last year I lived there I didn't even have a car, so I was just always, I would pass out on the L all the train and you'd walk four blocks or eight blocks or twelve blocks. No, it's just the worst. So. Yeah. Anyway, I digress. Sorry, Chicago, we love you. Yeah, I go back and I'm like, why did I leave? No, because it's so nice in the summer. Like, Denver could never. Right. You know, so, um, but I'm glad I spent some time there and got some, like, big city life under my belt. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I knew I didn't want to stay. I got, like, really bad seasonal depression and I was like I gotta get out of here. Do you have like, with these sorority girls, you're like roomies then? No, so I actually ended up a lot more with my high school friends. Oh wow. Cause you know, they all are still in the Midwest. Yeah, so, um, yeah, so that girl went back to Tennessee and finished school and then I, all my high school friends basically moved out there. So yeah. And then, I I tried to get out to California, and nobody would move with me, and I didn't have a job. Just because you wanted to go see California, kind of? I think I, like, romanticized it, and Like, Hollywood stuff, whatever. It was warm. Work in the industry, it's hot. Yeah, I wanted to be, like, a producer. I thought that I had some of those skills, and my college professor was kind of hooking me up with some people that went to Tennessee that worked on shows out there, and I just I couldn't pull the trigger. Yeah. Too scary. Yeah. So, but I did move out here. Yeah. And that was that, so. Was that, like, you had been out here? I had friends out here. You had friends out here? Yeah. No job, though? You were just like, hmm. No job. Did you get, like, laid off from a job? Or you just quit your job and moved from Chicago to Denver? And said, or what, to Denver or Northern Colorado? To Fort Collins. Right away. Okay. Yeah, specifically. I looked for jobs in Denver. Um. Yeah. And, I ended up working, getting a job finally with the, um, Northern Colorado Business Report at the time. Oh, really? Mm hmm. Sold ads. Oh. I was still banking at that time. Were you? What year was that? Um, 2007. Yeah, that was my last year of banking. My beat was, um, residential real estate. 14. Okay. Yeah, so I wouldn't have connected with you. And construction. But I, but I knew the business report very well, you know. Who didn't? I was a banker for all those years, kind of. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So yeah, so you know, and that was honestly the best first job I could have got out here because all I did was network. Meet people. Yeah. Well, and that's what I was thinking earlier was when you were talking about having a sorority Um, if you don't have something like that, like for me, I was a banker and so I was running around meeting people in different businesses and if I ever wanted a job, I think I could talk to at least a few people or whatever. But if you don't do that, if you just get right into your career path, who else do you know except for the coworkers you have? That's how I feel right now. Interesting. You know, if I'm ever to leave, I kind of have this kind of, you know, what, what could I do? Who, what, what am I qualified for? I don't really know for sure. You know? You know? Having enough money so you can buy another business that you want to operate. You wouldn't do it? I don't know. It would depend. It would depend on what that is. Yeah. So talk to me about, like, so you get this job selling ads, uh, and by the way, we can take a potty break at any point in time if you want to, um, you get this job selling ads and how long, like, you were successful in it, I guess? I don't know. It was weird. It was a hard job, right? It was a hard job. It was different. The job I had in, um, Chicago was more. Uh, we were kind of like an intermediary from like the individual TV stations and the advertisers. Right. Um, and then this was kind of like face to face, like knocking on doors. Yeah, yeah. And it was at the time when Internet ads were becoming a thing, and, you know. Right. Newspapers were dying rapidly in different ways. Yeah, the Book of Lists. I don't know if you remember. Oh, yeah. No, yeah. The Book of Lists. I wanted to get into the Book of Lists forever, but I forgot to apply last year. I was finally over a half million in revenue. So, Book of Lists is still a thing? Yeah, they still do it. I don't know if anybody ever reads it. It's different than it used to be. Yeah. Is it still a book? Oh yeah, I mean it's a magazine now, I mean it's not a big hard bone book like it used to be, but it's Oh gosh, that was an atlas, it was like an atlas size. It was, it was. It was like It was a coffee table book, yeah. So yeah, I'd carry around all these books with me and It was just really interesting. It was a time I remember when I interviewed, they had me put this presentation together and not being from the area, I didn't know what they were alluding to, but it was basically like, you are going to sell advertising to this, like, you know, real estate brokerage, they have this, you know, vision of. Yeah, I mean, I think it was a waterfront, you know, in Colorado, it was fully like Water Valley, you know, but like, it was so small at that time. And now it's like, it's so crazy to think that that's what my like weird PowerPoint, like interview presentation was. Trying to go approach Martin Linn and see if he would advertise with you. Yeah. Which he was at the time, not with me, but in the business report. But yeah, so that was a great first job. I was only there for six months and then, um, one of the engineering companies, um, That was my client was hiring for a business development coordinator And oh, I went and interviewed there and I went to them. And sold like civil engineering services? Yeah, sold some geotechnical engineering. Interesting. So I went from selling air to something. Was this a big engineering company or a small one? Um, they were bigger. They're geotechnical firms in town And it was funny because at that time it was also another recession Um, nobody was building and so, you know, business development and marketing was really like up and coming in all of these industries. And that was a fun time. Um, lots of golf, lots of happy hours, networking and, you know, that's, I don't know. It's just people dread networking events, but like I shine. So, um, yeah, those are fun. I don't, and I don't because, again, I'm not my target market anymore, so the events that I go to are kind of like, um, women in business kind of stuff, and I'm like, meh, I don't know. It's not my vibe. Um, and I know, I don't know all of those women, but I know the ones I want to know. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Yeah. Um. So when's, uh, the Bridal Salon, it's going to come along pretty soon here, right? Like, you're selling, you're selling engineering services, you're networking. You might, uh, can you find your husband along this way yet? Um, no, not yet. Yeah, because that was happening right when you started Dora. Yeah, so I, um, well, no, not yet. So I, In 2009, there was a bridal store that went out of business kind of in a blaze of glory. Like you hear they left 70 brides without dresses. Yes, I remember that. Mountain Avenue Bridal. I can't believe it's been 14 years ago. Yeah, so that's the only reason I heard about it because it was like so wild. Yeah, yeah. Um, and I had again another friend, sorority. Yeah, I read all about that in the business report, actually. Yeah, so yeah, exactly. Then, um, I said, you know, this one store went out of business, and I think, you know, do you want to come up here and open up another location? And at the time, she was about to open up her second location, but she said, you know, it's a great business. If you need any help, let me know. I will, like, work you through with you. But no, yeah. Which I got. Was she out here? No, she's in Tennessee. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so she's outside of Tennessee and she has one store now. You were like, hey, I spy a market opportunity here. Yeah, yes. And she, because there was nothing like it. It was like David's and then these other kind of, Yeah, super boutique y. Yeah, or consignment stuff. Yeah, just small scale, really. So there was an opportunity, and I don't know, I was at a networking event, and I talked to a banker that I knew, and I said, Hey, what would happen if I, like, wanted to open up a bridal store? And he took me seriously, and then, like, the ball just started rolling. Can you mention the banker? Um, yeah. He's gonna kill me, I don't know his last name. Nathan Kimball. Oh, yeah. Do you know him? Very briefly with him at Bank of Colorado. Yeah, he was at a public service credit union. Yeah, I met him interesting and He was like a real estate firm now, though, right? Maybe I've run into him occasionally. I don't see him No, he might be the big boss. He might be a big boss at First National Bank. No, no, that's you. You were Nathan Ewert Different Nathan. I haven't seen it in a while. Anyway I digress. Nathan Kimball. Sorry. I can't quite remember who you are. So brown hair. I can't remember your name for sure. But yeah. But you believed in her. Yeah. He believed in me and he was like, Hey, good timing. Um, again, it was a recession and so the stimulus bill had just come out and there was some money set aside for women owned businesses specifically. And there was some money left, like it was at the very tail end of it. So I was like, okay, I started like, I literally Googled. Bridal store business, please. Oh God, and then, um. So you never really had an entrepreneurial No. Urge or impulse before this moment in time. And if you know me, I'm not a wedding person either So it's just like it's really funny that I ended up doing this But yeah It like literally the balls were you not even making profit on the key chains you were stealing from the bookstore? No, that that was a long gone. So that wasn't even an entrepreneurial. Giving it away. It's fascinating to me that so you're just buying social capital with those key chains Um, but it's fascinating to me that you didn't have a paper route, you know, none of these things I don't I didn't even like doing girl scout cookies or like selling wrapping paper combination of events that just like I met my husband and he literally has like Stats of business plans of businesses that he wants to open. And I feel bad cause I'm like, uh, no. So, yeah, it was a long road. I mean, I met him and wrote my business plan, but then you had to write, do all these projections. And I just kind of got to this point where I was like, I don't even know where to do this. And just kind of had lunch with my friend and she's like, Oh, I know this guy that could help you with that. And then met him and he was great. And not only did he help me with like my projections for the store, but he is kind of like a, a Dave Ramsey guy. Oh, sure. And at the time I was like living on a bug. Sound financial principles kind of thing. Yeah, like he sat me down and was like, you cannot live this way. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it was. It was because of him that, like, I really A major shift. Yeah. Does he deserve or want a shout out from that? Oh, Trent Crossout, he doesn't do that kind of stuff anymore. Um, he actually sold his accounting firm and moved to Florida, but I think he does some pro bono work. Some stuff, whatever. Yeah, but, oh my god, like, I have, I have referred him to people and, yeah, just like a wizard with numbers and between him and, you know, having my friend who could give me kind of, like, some intel of, you know, opening numbers and things like that. So, you know, I tie my ribbon and, you know, with the SBA, you have to have a quote for your construction, everything, everything had to be dialed in. So I'm like. Working full time. And everybody's going to give you these quotes when they don't know if you're actually ever going to be able to pay them. Exactly. So I'm working full time. I literally worked up until a month before I opened this store. Right. Yeah. Um, but my first location was down the street from where I worked. So I could kind of like pop over and like see the location. So my first location was on Linden Street where, um, I think there's like a co working Mm hmm. Place there now? Above Elliot's. Um, so I thought that was like a cute little like, cool boutique y location. Sure, yeah. Um, not ideal at the end of the day, but Yeah, and parking was hard. So, yeah, at the end, like it was fun, and it was really weird to like have somebody hand me a keys to like a business. Right, right. A 30 year old, I had not even turned 30 yet. So, um, But yeah, it was a, it was a journey writing this like SBA, you know, application and getting the funding approved. I remember I was in a bowling league at the time and, um, what's your average? I mean, I was pretty good. I was, I was the scratch league women's champion of that. Wow. Um, I can do it all folks. What's that mean? Scratch league is what? Like you don't have your handicap and like your actual score. Oh, it's just real scores. Yeah. Real scores. Dang. I know. I didn't get a towel or a patch or anything, which is really what I wanted. Yeah. It was just like notoriety, I guess. Um, I can't believe you don't know about that. Sorry, yeah. I bowled a 201 one time. Oh, wow. But my average is more like 120. Oh, okay. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we don't really try anymore. My dad bowled a 300 one time. No shit? So I come from a long line of lawyers. Oh, yeah, interesting. My mom actually was in a bowling league when I was a youth. Yeah, in a softball league. Oh, your mom? Yeah, she taught me how to play baseball. I bet I can throw a football farther than you, or a baseball. I'm sure you can. I'm like, meh. I thought you said you could do everything. I mean If I trained, if I trained, I guess. You would take years, you could never pass me in throwing a baseball, I'm sorry. But, you could almost certainly beat me 9 On bowling. Maybe. Okay. Yeah. Maybe someday we'll do that. Um. We'll chase some cash on it. I'm pretty good at other leisure sports too. Pool. Golf. Mmm. that a leisure sport? I wouldn't call golf a leisure sport. It's too annoying to be a leisure sport. Darts. Foosball. Darts I could do okay. Foosball I do not have the coordination for that. Big buck hunter. Big buck hunter. I'm pretty good at big buck hunter. I could do air hockey. Yeah, not as good at that. Oh, okay. All right. We'll shut that on a trailhead some night. We can have a double date. You can bring your husband and crash on our couch at Jill's place. Exactly. Put the kids with your mom. I love that. Anyway, uh, we So yeah, I was at bowling and it was when Nate had to call me and be like, they did not approve your funding. And, no, this was at work. I'm sorry. And I said Why and he gave me the reasons why and I said no I said you go back to them And you tell them a B C and D and my numbers are all backed by This is the first real appearance of plucky plucky came out And so I was like, yeah, I mean I did not work this hard for three to four months to have them say no, right And if I need to talk to somebody that's over your pay grade, I will go talk to them, mister. I was not feeling that. Nobody tells me no, no. So he did, and luckily, that's when I was at bowling and he like sent me the email that it got like approved. No shit. Like he brought it back to the committee somehow and he's like, this and this and this. Yeah. I mean, I had like literally crossed my T's dot in my eyes. I did not make a step up. Oh yeah, but you didn't have any experience, you didn't have any assets, you didn't have very good income. No, I had nothing. You had no savings. I had to literally ask my friends for investment. Yeah. Yeah, I had five of my friends invest. I put 1, 500 in. I think that's all I could like afford at the time. Right, they're reaching for a thousand or a couple thousand or something and now you got 15 or something. Literally. It was. Uh, it was a lot. Did they become owners? Or No, they were, um Did they give you a loan? God, what the heck was they called? Or whatever. Yeah, they gave me a loan and I paid them back with interest and, um, luckily they didn't like hound me too hard for that interest payment. Right, it took a little while. Yeah, but they're all paid off now. Um It's been years. Yeah, I got my grandma on board for a couple thousand and I remember telling her, my grandma's name is Dora. Oh. Of the Dora and Grace. My other grandma is Grace. She has passed. Oh, wow. But when I asked Dora, I was like, hey, you know, it's It's going to be called Dora Grace. I was like, how do you feel about that? And she's like, ah, I've had that name forever. Blah, blah, blah. She's just like crotchety. So, you know, no heartwarming story there. Did Grace respond differently? She's passed. She was passed already at that time, gotcha. So yeah, so funding went through, quit my job, did the final like, you know. Last push of like, construction, opening, all of that stuff and, yeah, the story. Oh, by the way, um, you've got a bug on your shirt. Oh my god. Oh my god. Thank you for telling me. We've got a box elder invasion in here. Uh, yeah. We have those like, little, little ladybugs, like the, the mean ladybugs were in our house for a while. Is there mean ones? Mean ones. They're like, not ladybugs. Did they bite you? Yes. Really? Yes. I did not know that. But they look just like the regular ladybugs? Yep. Yes. But they're a little more orange. Yeah, so beware. We had an episode a couple, few weeks ago where one like went all the way up the cord and over this guy's head and I was like just hoping the problem would go away and then it like came down on his face and he was freaking Okay, yeah. Just tell me if they're hungry. Sorry about that. Um, so. Yeah, so open the store and. Like I said, I don't know if I would have been successful had I not had such a big network already and having, like, had networked the first three, you know, four years in town. Yeah. Um, so yeah. Like all those CPA firms and bankers and stuff that you called on way back to the biz west days and this and that. They're like, Hey, did you hear Timree opened a bridal shop? Yes. Well, and probably the implosion of Mountain Avenue Bridal. Yeah. Uh, was like, A newsmaker, right? Yeah. And then you, in some ways, being the next downtown for the people. Everybody was nervous. Kind of salon. Everybody I sold the dress to was like, What are you gonna actually deliver the dress? Yeah. And I was like, Well, how do I know you'll be able to pay your balance? Right. You know, it was just kind of like, We have to trust each other. Do you get a deposit? I get a deposit. Is that standard industry? Yeah. Yeah. Like half? Third? Um, it used to be half and now it's 70%. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, so I mean that helps with cash flow and just right well and if they flake out Yeah, not to get married at least you covered the cost of your dress probably that other margin is you know for the profit There's a couple options if they don't get married, but yeah, we like them to pay their dress and take it. Can they buy insurance? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. God. Have you done a regression analysis to see, like, what percentage of people buy the insurance and then their marriage actually fails? No, no. We don't have insurance. We don't have insurance. It's not a predictor? No, it's funny though. When I go over, you know, the sales or CMI, it's like, okay, in the event that the wedding is canceled or blah, blah, blah, everyone's like, no. That'll never happen. Never gonna happen. And you're like, statistically. It's a 37 percent chance that within four years you will no longer be married. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. If you even get married. If you even get down the aisle. Um, I'm going to call a short break. Okay. Sounds good. And then we're going to come back and talk a little bit more business. And then jump into the closing segments. Okay. Alright. So where did we leave off? We were talking about. Oh, I just opened up my store. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And did you budget in a salary for the owner? Oh, sure. I did. I did actually. And I was like, very quickly realized that I was not going to be taking that salary. I was going to be volunteering only. Yeah. Um, but it was funny when I opened that. So I quit my regular job and then one of the engineers. That I was working with went off on his own and he let me come work for his new place on Wednesdays And at the time we were closed on Wednesdays, so I had like in a business development role. Yeah, like a marketing role So that was nice. I did have some like extra income for a while because This was very much self funded, like my dad was not writing me a check to open up a store. The 600 a month he paid you was like your income at that time. Yeah, um, I had a roommate at the time that was really good. I had just met my husband and, um, he recognized that I was going to be poor for a while. Did he already have a stack of business plans? Um, yeah, he already had a stack of business plans, but he was really like Um, so he and I and this guy Trent actually sat down and kind of just like talked about our finances and I, I feel so fortunate that he and I had to talk money right away in our relationship and you know, he ended up like getting rid of his boat and his motorcycle and all this stuff. So, but. Yep. We're in such a better place now, not only because we can be like, hey, you're spending too much money, or like, here's That's like Dave Ramsey, like, live like no one else now, so you can live like no one else later. Totally. We would, the two of us would budget a hundred dollars a week for groceries. Wow. For two weeks. I'm sorry, that was two weeks of groceries. Wow. Um, we were Not eating meat at the time. So it was like a little bit easier. Um, he maybe weighed like a moral or a, uh, uh, health choice for you? For me, I wanted to stop and he didn't make the food. So it was just like by choice. Just making what he eats? Yeah, he would like obviously still eat meat like on lunches and stuff like that. But um, Yeah, so I just remember being in the grocery store with our calculator high fiving when it was like 99. Right. And we were like, we did it! But yeah, we were very much like cash heavy for a long time. Everybody called us the McCashkles. Yeah, did you work for the envelope things and all that? Oh, big envelope gals. Yeah, yeah. Guy and gal over here. So, yeah, I mean, I think it took our friends a while to like Not feel like they had to buy us dinner when we went out, or, you know, like, supplement, like, our funds. Because you were funding Timree for so long, you didn't care what it cost. I'm there. I know. Yeah. Or, like, my, you know, job was pending, you know, paying for my fund line. So, um That's what I miss the most of my banking career is expense reports that somebody else has to pay for, not me. I just remember going to the Canyon Shop House and being like, who's paying this time? Who cares? So, um, by the way, RIP Canyon Chophouse, I loved that place so much. Right, yeah, that is a sad thing. I just wrote in my blog, RIP, um, Coopersmith's Poolside. Yes! Even though I didn't go there much in recent years. But you knew it was there. Well, and for years I had Old Town Tuesdays, where the bank would buy beer and pizza once a month, and then if you bought beer or pizza On Tuesday nights, then you got free pool. Oh, nice. Or ping pong. Oh, I didn't know that. And so yeah, for years, that was really the, the deepest roots of Loco Think Tank is Capital West National Bank buying beer and pizza for, and it was like the, the anti networking, networking group. Like we're just. We're here, we're cool. I started spouting some of my libertarian tenets of business and life at that time. I mean, but that was like the rules of the organization. This is for people that just want to chill, not have all these rules about making referrals and dumb things like that. It's just like, let's just hang out. If you're good at ping pong or pool, all the better, but you don't have to be. I'm going to refer people to you if I like you. That's like the number one thing. Like, if you're weird, no. I don't want anybody I know to know you. Right, and being in BNI for 10 years will not make you less weird. No, no, that is make you more weird. I've been to those before and I'm like, this is not for me. I call Loco the anti BNI. Oh my god, those groups, I'm just like And you know, as a woman, you get kind of like roped into weird stuff. Like people just assume because you own a business that your business is. You know, leggings, or, you know, MLM. So, it's kind of hard. Yeah, well, and those, I mean, that's what a lot of those networking kind of groups are, is like people that don't yet have a business. Or they're financial planners. And there's some that aren't, you know, and so I still show up a lot more than I wish, and I'm a minor celebrity at many, I'm the swag king of, I mean, look at your haul there, your hot sauce, your coffee cup, your spork. Oh, it's a spork. It's a super spork. Check it out. I will check that out. Yeah, it's got a, it's got a knife on the side, too. That's a good little work utensil. Yeah, it's, it's, it's great for lunchboxes and stuff like that. I could even get you a rebranding. Everything looks good. Thank you. Yeah. Um, so you're struggling along. Yeah. Paying the bills, but barely. Yeah. But actually, but at least living within your means. Living within our means, um, you a huge Which your banker was very glad about, probably. Yeah, I mean, yeah. It was really interesting with the SBA loan when you said, Hey, I need this much for marketing. Um, you couldn't withdraw money for anything else. So you had, I had these little pots to choose from. So I had, you know, construction money, marketing money, I don't know, payroll or something like that. And I went over on my construction. Yeah, but I couldn't, can I spend less on marketing? So I basically like had this funding. But I had to use it other ways, so that was kind of a bummer in the beginning, and, you know, inventory gets wacky, and you buy too much, and I don't know. Um, so, yeah, the first few years were Really? Yeah, I was going to say, how long before you hit your stride and started understanding if you were Because that's the hard part about retail, is you barely understand if you're making money or not, sometimes. I mean, you can, but just the way inventory carries, and Yeah, I made a profit the first year. Okay. So I've always been profitable, but you know, what nobody tells you is like, on paper, you can be profitable and have zero cash in the bank. Right, right. Yeah, I made 50 grand, but I actually needed 60, 000 more of inventory than I actually had, and so I'm minus 10 on my cash. It's wild. It's wild. Um, so Yeah, that was a big learning curve, Trent and I worked together for a really long time and he would just kind of be like, okay, this is what needs to be paid first. When you get this cash in, this is what you do. I remember being very attuned to how many times UPS would deliver a package before it got returned. Oh gosh. Um, so I would, you know, refuse it two times. And then, on the third time, it could go back to the warehouse. But they should call it right away. And then I think I had five days there before I could bring them a money order. Like, hustling, you know? So, yeah, that was interesting. That's cash flow management, though. Yeah, I mean. I think that's, even though it's, like, it might be embarrassing to you or whatever, but, honestly, that's, like, part of what people should know if they're gonna start a business. Is there's, you know, keep your integrity. Yeah. Right? And. Yeah. We weren't missing any wear dates, you know, it was just like, it was maybe three days. I was telling Alma just not too long ago, I was like, I haven't slow paid any facilitators for like years now. Yeah. I mean. You know, but in the early days it was like, you know, when I was food trucking and losing my butt there and trying to get through a long winter, it was like, yeah, yeah, I could pay her after I collect member dues in February. Yeah. I remember when I started paying myself, like, 200, I was like, I've made it. I have made it. When you get your head above water, it feels so much better. It feels so much better. Just a little bit. I mean, for the longest time, nobody would give me, um, a line of credit. How long did you show up every day, every week, without paying yourself? Um, I don't know. A long time. Um, so what was funny is I got married in 2014 and then immediately got pregnant. Oh. And so I was kind of forced in 2015 to take some days off. Right. But I mean, yeah, I was six days a week for four years. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I think by year three and a half. I think I started out like at 125 a week and then 200 a week, right? No, I think it was like every two weeks at that time. I just like recently went to every week payroll. So it wasn't a lot, but it was kind of like, Hey, this is our groceries. And well, and you knew you were building something for, for longer. Well, and I suspect like my dad's been farming for, gosh, I guess like. 45 years now or something. And once you get enough of your equipment and land and stuff paid for, in your case, if you're not actually carrying much debt on your inventory, your margins are just so much better and you can find better deals. And once you have some capital, then the profits come so much easier. Yeah, there's definitely, it's kind of like a, um, you know, like an up and then, then like plateau, you know, where you kind of reach the sweet spot where you're selling a lot and, you know, not buying as much. And so it took a while to get there, but, you know, like I said, we were always profitable, um, and it's always been an increase in profit year over year, um, minus 2020, you know, we don't talk about her, but yeah, so it was, it's been fine, but I think it's been. Deliberate. Yeah. And I've been able to sacrifice what I've wanted to do in order for the store and my employees to get things that they want, so. Well, and you're getting close, I suspect, to, to living like Dave Ramsey wants you to. Yeah, I mean, we have made it. You that doesn't require you too much every week. I mean, it's been like that. It's truly, honestly been like that since I've had my daughter. So that was almost nine years ago. Oh, is that right? Yeah. So, and that's part of why I've been like, what am I doing? I have no like motivation, like, and because my staff is awesome and I give them the opportunity to be leaders. Yeah. Yeah. And as much as I do like to have a handle on things. Yeah. Well, you're the decider. Yeah. And they're the leaders. Yeah. In some ways. They are. They just kind of implement things and bring me in when there's issues, but most of the time there isn't. And I just kind of come and like, you know, play therapist in the back when they need me. But yeah, it's been really good. So, um, it's been a long time, but I think. Um, having a baby, right, when I did, forced me to be like, okay, your control days are over. Yeah, yeah. You gotta kind of like You're gonna have to give it up. Yeah. What do you think, um, are your two or three best attributes as far as leadership? Like, what would your staff say they really love about you? I think, I think one of the things that they love about me is I know that one of them said this about me to one of our new employees, they're like, you're always gonna know where you stand with Timoree. Um, in a good and a bad way, you know, like, it's a store full of gals. So things could get drama. A lot, if, if I let it, you know, and for me, Yeah, things fester sometimes and stuff. Yeah, I'm like, that is not my vibe. We're not doing that. Like, if you see something, say something. We're gonna nip this in the bud. Like, hey, oh, if you're, someone's bothering, like, tell them. Or, so, like, that doesn't happen. So I just have this, like, culture of, like, tell people what's bothering you. Or come to me and know that like, I'm gonna tell them what you told me. Right. You know, like. We don't sweep things under the rug around here. This is where we, we, I always say, uh, confront the dragon. Yeah, exactly. And it works out so much better that way, you know? And even though I'm not there, I know all the drama, you know, if there's anything and I'm just like, okay, well, when I come in, let's talk and let's make sure it's fine. And yeah, so it could, it could be really contentious and like catty, but it's, it's not. And I think because of me, you know, like just kind of, well, that's a culture you've modeled. Yeah. Right. Um, and then gosh, what else? At least the number two. I mean, I'm just like, So, do you know Enneagrams? Yeah. Okay, so, you know, at first glance I'm an achiever, but I am a seven, which is the entertainer. Promoter, yeah. Yeah, so, they uh, this person really likes the vibe to be happy. Yeah. Anywhere you go. So, I'm a big like, hey, like, how's the vibe? Like, is everybody happy? Like, making sure everybody's fun, like. Do you get confused when people don't like you? Um. Yeah, and that doesn't happen that often. No, but I don't think they don't like me. I get confused when they're like intimidated by me because I'm like, I'm fun. I'm nice. I'm open. I'm interested in you. Like what is there not, what is there to be intimidated by? Well, you're 5 foot 7. I am 5 foot 7. But, but you seem like you're like 5 foot 11 or something. You're a little Just the confidence. Bigger than, than your, your, your body projects. So, I don't know what it is, but it's But you're a gentle giant, I think. I think so, and I think once you get to know me, like, I think, I, I am an open book and I hope that they would come to me with any problem that they had and know that I would like, listen and, um, it's funny, they I think my newer staff, I'm like Matthew McConaughey, like I keep getting older and they stay the same age. Um, so it's like a little bit different lately. I don't think they're as comfortable coming to me and, you know, telling me their problems and they tend to go to my manager, Emily, a little bit more, which is fine. You know, she's come into that role and she's awesome. Right, right. It's just different now. Yeah. Um, by the way, we talked about audible books and the Matthew McConaughey book, uh, Green Lights. Oh! Have you listened to that one? No, but I was listening to Smart List and they were talking to Oh, yeah. Yeah. Is it good? It's pretty, yeah. I mean, you were talking about how there's such terrible narrators, but he narrates his own book. Oh, he does. Oh, yeah. So does Mariah Carey, which I'm really, I'm not like a Mariah Carey person, but I think she like, sings a little bit in it. Yeah, I dig it. Yeah, so anyway, that's, like, as far as Audible books go, that Greenlight, like, he's kind of a bullshitter. Like, I don't believe every story that he said is Truth in that book, frankly, although I believe most of most of them you have to like get fact checked I don't know. I just think he's bullshitting on a couple of his stories I'm just calling you up Matthew McConaughey. If you want to come on the podcast and tell me why big words I'm not yeah, whatever. I'm not scared of Matthew McConaughey. Well, we'll hashtag him. Yeah hashtag Matthew McConaughey. Um Do you think he'll see it for sure if we hashtag him? For sure, I think he's really, like, up to date on these. Yeah, he's like, what Spotify can I see? Yeah. What's this local experience of, why is my tags popping up on this? He's got his Google Alerts set, let's be honest, okay? He's looking at them every morning. I doubt it. I doubt it. Every time I do have my Google Alerts set for Dora Grace, cause I'm always like, oh god, just in case something happens, it is always An older person's obituary, it is always like, Oh, I know it's kind of sad, sad. Um, well, what's also sad is I'm going to ask you the, the hardest question that I've asked you so far. What would your, your staff or perhaps your, your spouse say is like the most annoying thing about you? What's your, what's your blind spot and or I'm aware of this, but I'm just going to keep being that way anyway. Yeah, they, well, I can tell you because he told me this the other day that this was my blind spot. Shout out to Jason. He said that I ask for help and I do it anyways. Which, like, sorry, do it right. Well, you should have helped sooner. Like, if I wanted your shitty ass help, I would have asked for that, but I wanted your actual help. Yeah, real help. Like, to do it right. I'm just looking for people smarter than me. Exactly. No, so I think it's more like, um, yeah, it's, it's like I don't want to do something, but I want it to be done. My way. Yeah. Not even right. My way. Yeah. You know, because my way is not right all the time. But I think it is. Most of the time. 99%. I was listening to this, uh, actually, uh, the Jordan Harbinger podcast, uh, and he was talking to one of the writers from my, one of my favorite books. It's called The Brain by David, David Engel, and it's all about neuroplasticity and, and different things. And. We all, virtually every human, basically believes we've got the whole world figured out. Um, but then if somebody would hand us a book on, who knows what, some random thing that we know almost nothing about, which there's a million of those things, then we would like read that and be like, okay, now I've got it figured out. Yeah, that sounds like somebody I know. And it's just like how, well, it's just almost all of us. Oh yeah. And we just kind of think we have a well developed world model in our brains, and frankly that's Part of the unseen value of local think tank. Mm hmm. If there's just things around corners, we don't see because we just don't know. Yeah Or just to look at your business from a different perspective Totally because you're so in the weeds with it and you you know, you're so personally connected to your team Yeah, and you're like It's, it's almost like a family where you can talk bad about them, but when somebody else says something, it's like, no, no, like, they're great. Get out of here. You shut up about my mom. Yeah, because you hired them. Right. You know, it's like, I didn't make a bad hire, they're just, you know, learning. So, yeah, I think, I think that's my biggest blind spot. I'm just like, I, I can't do it all. Especially now that I'm like a mom and, you know, have two stores, but I still want to do it all. Because. Unfortunately, nobody else can do it quite as good as me. Yeah, or just the way I would do it. The way I would do it. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. That's the difference. Like, I don't think it's right, but I'm like, this is how it, like, sparks joy to me. Well, and there is a way, like, right? Like, as LocoThinkTank continues to grow, it would be almost irresponsible of me if I let too many people's opinions of what LocoThinkTank should be dictate the way we did it, because that might be, like, death by committee. Yes. Um, and people have resonated with my vision, and I have to be willing to express that. Totally. While taking feedback and better ideas from people, like, I'm not that way, but Sometimes maybe I, I might fault on the other side, like I get too much input before I decide and I don't decide fast enough, things like that. Well, sometimes I think it's good to get a lot of input so you know. All your choices. Yeah. At least you can be confident you picked the right one. Or, you know, play those scenarios in your head. I mean, I've had so many reps be like, you can have a higher price point in your store. Yeah. But that's never what I wanted for my store. Right. You know, so as long as that's that and, you know, things like that. Should we transition to the closing segments? Yeah, closing segments. Closing segments. The, the, the things we shouldn't talk about. Faith, family, and politics. Where would you like to start? Oh, any of them. Um, well we're in the, the heat of a presidential election, you want to talk national politics and we'll zoom it down more local? Sure. Uh, who are you a big fan of? Biden or Trump? Uh, Biden. Really? I mean, I wouldn't say I'm like a big fan of Biden, but I'm like not a fan of Trump. But you think he's not terrible? Yeah, I don't think he's terrible. Really? Yeah. I mean, is Do you think he'll live to the end of the second term? Yep. Um, how terrified are you if Kamala is the president? Not at all. Not at all. Really? Okay. All right. Good. I don't know. You know, I know she's been kind of like undercover since she's been vice president or maybe because every time I take the cover off her, she says something really dumb in my opinion. Not really living up to what we thought she would be. Um, but yeah, I would say she did fix the border. Sorry. I'm a little critical of the Biden administration. I think he's a senile. Oh. And Trump isn't. No, he is too. I think there's, like, it's evidence of an immensely broken system that we ever got Biden or Trump on the national ballot. Trust me, like. Like, I want to tear down the whole thing. Yeah. Like, break it. We need younger people. Like, we need, I don't want to say we need term limits, but we need. We need to break it. Like, the Democrats and Republicans, both parties need to be broken. Everything's crazy right now. Everything's bananas right now. Like, I. I agree. I would say I wasn't very into politics until the 2016 election, um, and then I got very into it. Like, I, like, pounded the pavement for Jared Polis, like, never thought I would do that. You know, I don't like selling Girl Scout cookies. Why was that? I was, like, very nervous about that election. What's wrong? You're orange man bad a little bit. I just was, um, yeah, I guess it was. Yeah. Like, that was the first time I was like, oh, this could be bad. He spurred a lot of people, for sure. Yeah. I was like, this could be bad. So, I know that he's an egomaniac. Narcissist. Yeah. And probably plays fast and loose with integrity. Probably. Almost certainly as does the Biden family for sure. Okay. Um, and like, I almost trust him because he's such a narcissist. He wants to be the best president ever. And that almost gives me more trust for him than people playing a pure power play. Does that not? I don't think of Joe Biden as somebody that I was, I would characterize as being out for a power play. Okay. Do you? Oh, I think there's a lot of evidence of family enrichment over political favors, like the Ukraine war, for example. Family enrichment we're going to talk about? Yeah, well, And you're a Trump guy? No, I'm not a Trump guy. I've never voted for him, never will. And So what do you do? Um, I, I vote independent. I always have. Um, and like, if somebody had a gun to my head and said, vote for one of these, I don't know, I'd probably just have them shoot me. I just, no, maybe not, but it's, it's really frustrating. My husband doesn't vote. Yeah. I applaud that. Honestly. I mean, especially in circumstances where these, well then vote third party because like, seriously, the dumbest person on the ballot, like Hillary or Joe Biden as a president, like we should have leaders of our country that we actually respect that can lead. Like, we haven't seen that for 30 years in this country. I mean, I would maybe disagree with that, but yeah, yeah, fair. So let's go local politics. What do you think about? You know, it's funny, um, What's happening, uh, on that front. Fort Collins City Council just got rid of their last conservative elector. Which is interesting, which I don't agree with. Yeah, I think that was foolish, uh, Yeah, um, I, And she's so likable. Shirley was like, Yeah, in my opinion the most likable city council person we've ever had. It's it's tough. It's interesting You know as someone who's liberal, you know is it's nice to be Comfortable in election time. Fair. Um, but I also really like I don't want to be in an echo chamber. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I think the Senate Council is headed for, unfortunately. It totally is. I mean, Jenny Arendt is actually a pretty, like, I like Jenny quite a bit, uh, for a fairly progressive, but she's fairly libertarian in her notions, and she's, you know, she's In my humble opinion, like the most rational person on the city council right now. Really? I would say so. Yeah. I mean, I've briefly, you know, looked at who I had to vote for, and Yeah, I don't say that. I'm not that current either. Yeah. So, I mean There was a time when I was very into politics and, like, lived on Twitter and, and it wasn't good for my mental health. Fair. Yeah, same. So, um, yeah, I would say I deleted Twitter probably two years ago and haven't looked back. Mm. And, um, uh, yeah, I still, I, I know what my beliefs are. Tell me about that. And, yeah, I just. It's for me, I think people assume, you know, as a small business, I'm like, Oh, no taxes, blah, blah, blah. But you know what? I like my parks. I like my roads to be nice. I go home to Indiana. I'm like, these roads are shit. Right. Right. You know, but it does afford you a lot of nice things that I think people take for granted. And I'm like, I'm going to be fucking paying taxes no matter what. Right. I'm not in a bracket where people are getting rid of them for me, you know, so I'm just like, This is my life. I want fair taxes, but I know I'm going to pay taxes, and I want everybody else to pay taxes. Yeah, yeah. That's what makes me mad. So that's probably would be, like, a political soapbox for you would be people that benefit from the system. Why am I paying taxes? Yeah. That don't pay taxes. Yeah. That bothers me. Yeah. Um, and so There's a lot of games. You know, there's a lot of tax code things. And the tax code's 80, 000 pages or something, right? Yeah. And the Supreme Court is looking at some case right now that could like blow the whole thing up. Oh, is that right? Yeah. That'd be great. Um, it sounds like it would not be. I don't know. Even Paul Ryan is like, uh, I'm not for a wealth tax, but this sounds bad. Oh. So, yeah. If you know he's on board with like this. Interesting. Yeah. So yeah, I, I mean, yeah, wealth tax would be devastating. Wealth tax would be devastating. I mean, as far as, um, other political issues, you know, women's rights are pretty important to me as a woman. And yet you came on here talking about how you're not like a girl boss thing. Yeah. I don't think I have to be like girl power. Yeah. Um, but I think everybody's. entitled to health care. Have you felt, um, discriminated against in your career for being a woman? I would say, the one time, and this kind of like happened early in the it happened One time when I was in the engineering firm, because obviously it was mostly men, I was not a secretary. I was not an admin to any of these engineers, okay? Um, I remember one time, two of these engineers were having a meeting, and they, the one emailed me, A document was like, can you print this out? Okay. I came into his office and I said, Is this all you needed? And he said, yeah, thanks. And I said, never ask me to do that again. It's not my job. Like, print it off yourself. Was he in a meeting? Like, with a client or something? No, it was him and another guy that worked there. They just couldn't be bothered to walk to the coffee machine. And I was across the road. You know what I mean? Like, they wouldn't ask the other engineer. Like, the lowly engineer guy. Was that a male thing? He didn't ask the other engineer that was sitting right next to me. Or even like the admin, like it was like we, it was like the one time I was like, what the fuck is this? Yeah, well, I think that says something that was the one time. Well, it's that and then Or maybe a few times but not a lot. Not a lot But I'm like a no not, you know, like I can hang with the guys and I don't let them do that crap to me There was another time And I, it probably wasn't that I was a woman, but it's that my business is very women centric and men don't understand it. Well, sure. I mean, you saw me ignorant as all get out. No, it's fine. You wouldn't. Why would you want, why would you know? Even women don't even understand the process. But I was up for the Chamber Small Business Award. Oh. And a friend of mine was on the process and she told me how it all went down afterwards. And I was up against, it was like between me and Community Auto at the end. And um, Almost nobody's ever heard of, they're like tucked away over there. They, I mean, they're great, whatever, but like I had My answers were dialed in, like, I was doing well, like, I was up and coming, and I had, like, they asked, like, how you, like, organize, you know, use technology in your business, like, I was, you know, so I had all of these things, like, really answered well, but there was, like, one guy on the committee that was, like, I don't even understand why this is in this business category. He didn't understand that I was, like, a full store and, like, a brick and mortar. He thought I was, like, a wedding planner, like, couldn't be bothered to, like, learn anything about it. Yeah, that's fair. And so, ever since then, I'm like, But that's ignorance, not misogyny. Seems like, to me. But, like, he, it could have been a tech company that he didn't really understand. Fair. And he would have maybe been like, Yeah, yeah. This is, this is, A company, I don't understand, but it makes sense that it's here. So what do you think? I don't think it happens a lot. Should the government have an active role in making sure it doesn't happen more? Like, I've been hearing Like affirmative action kind of stuff? Well, affirmative action and even like the I've heard a lot of horror stories about abuse of FMLA lately. Like a bad employee will Like, before they get fi just before they get fired, a lot of times, like, you're like, Oh, I, I need some mental health stuff, and then take 12 weeks off, or some baloney, and then quit. Which, they're gonna do that anyways. But I guess. Well, but, most of the time, you don't have to pay them for 12 weeks first. But I think Cause that's a lot. Oh, it's a lot. I mean, the thing that I think is beneficial in, like, for females, when your kid gets sick, who stays home? Right. Who stays home? Like, you know, the mom. Like, our jobs are just not as important somehow. Hmm. Well, or the kids need you more. Do they? What am I doing different? You know, I don't, I mean, for the first several years you have the boob, right? But I didn't, I didn't. Fair. There was no difference. But do you not think there's a difference in the way that children, like for me, My relationship with my father didn't really become very important to me until I was, like, becoming a teenager. Yeah, I mean Um, and that, and that was when I was becoming a man and not a child. I think it's because So for me that was the, the perspective. But I think dads could play it different. They just Check out or whatever, right. My husband is awesome. I'm so blessed to have, like, a partner. And he has been from the beginning. But even he He knows that he falls into this like typical husband role with things that like, and he really prides himself on like being different and like doing different things and I look at some people and I'm like. I would, I could never be married to this guy. Like, he leaves for two weeks to hunt, like, get all the way out of here with that. Um, but there's still some things where I'm just like, why is this my job? Like, when did I sign up for this? My, uh, my dresser was magically filled with clean underwear and socks this morning, um, after yesterday. And I never, I, I help out clean the house once in a while. Yeah. And I almost never do laundry. Um, and my wife almost never cooks a meal. Yeah. Like, she's cooked like six times. Yeah. In 20 years. And, like, to me, that's a nice trade off. That's an awesome trade off. Right? And I like to cook, and she's a much more clean oriented person. Mm hmm. Like, if she wanted me to do the laundry, they'd be done. Yeah. And not as good. You do, you do find your strengths in the relationship. Yeah. Jason, from the beginning, has always done bedtime, because he's always gotten up really early for work. So, you know, I'm the mornings, even though I'm not a morning person, and he's the nighttime, even though he's not a nighttime person. So that's how we find, you know, balance. But there's definitely still some things where I'm like So you don't think that you naturally have an easier connection with young children than your husband? Um, no. No? I don't think so. Okay. Our kids. Wait, well, and you raise your kids as you, right? Yeah, we all live in the same house, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We all know each other pretty well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think that if he, you know, he's always like, I could be a stay at home dad. And, um, But I'm like, everybody thinks it's great because, but there's so much dumb stuff that goes, I mean, camp season is around the corner, like in January, you have to basically like book all of your camps for the summer. And it's an ordeal. And it's something that not only do, you know, the moms do. But we also know that it's on the, on the horizon. Yeah. You know, it's not like if I wasn't like, Hey Jason, could you do the camps thing? He wouldn't, he would do it. Right. But it's like, you gotta anticipate that the camps need to be signed up for. That's the mental load. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. No, and well, and, and, Joel's the detail person in our family. And I'm like, not. I don't know. I guess I'm, I'm organized, but I'm not like, it's a lot. It, it's a lot to take on. Yeah. That's fair. And it's like crushing. So to go back to that question, is there things that government should do to bring about more justice or is it more about a people change? Like is it a heart change and a culture change and whatever? I think it's a culture change and I do see like the younger. People coming up seeing their dads being more present and like, you know, I do think they're gonna just like Think differently about the world anyway So, you know, I have a lot of like high hopes for this generation I know people like kind of crap on them because they're on there, you know computers and phones all the time, but as am I So I think it's happening do I need do I think the government needs to step in I think there's places Where it could be helpful like for FMLA it's like I, I am the one that would have to stay home, you know, like, not have to stay home, but it's like, if, if my kid was out for a month with mono. Right. Like, my job would get sacrificed, and I know that over COVID that happened with a lot of moms, like a lot of moms didn't re enter the workforce. Well, that's, I mean, frankly, that's one of the reasons I favor small business over large. Yeah. Like, I don't know, you know, in Oma got married about a year ago, you know, in one or two or three years, she'll want to have a leave of absence to have a baby probably, or something, right? And I would love to be able to take amazingly good care of her, and, like, I don't want to be forced to do that. Because if I was a two or three person business, hanging on by a thread, and now I've got to give her four months paid leave, you could kill me, you know? Or it could prevent me from ever wanting to take the risk of starting something. Yeah, but that sucks, because like You know, women are going to get pregnant, and like, Yeah, so choose, choose good employers, you know, I don't know. But not everybody's a good employer when it comes down to it. I mean, I had So leave them. Like, we'll have far fewer bad employers if people just leave them. There's a lot of bad employers. Oh yeah. A lot of people that I'm even friends with, and I'm just like, why wouldn't you do that for your team? Right, right. You know, like And like stuff that I do, I'm just like, of course I'm going to do that for them. But I know a lot of people would be like, uh, no. Well and that's why it's hard to scale, right? It's hard to scale a business with those kind of more flexible things. It's hard and it's not always an easy decision to make. And so I think that, you know, when, you know, like Colorado steps in and they're, you know, doing these five paid sick days and things like that, it's like at the end of the day, What is this? What like for me personally, you know, but I'm a small like my what I can afford to pay hourly Is what I can afford and it's also Okay, if it's like a day, they don't work that I have to pay for you know what I mean if I was making a lot more money I would I think that I would budget this into my, also. It's like, as people scale, they get stingier. Yeah, there's almost some truth to that. So somebody, I think, has to kind of be like, Hey, there's still like, people, and they brought you this success. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. I don't think there's a great answer, but I do think there's a happy medium and a compromise that like, you can't leave it up to businesses. to always make the best decision. To just do right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think Unfortunately. Only if you had a virtuous society. Yes. And we're drifting farther from that. A hundred percent. Greedy. Greedy people. Um, in the, in the, I, I like to think of politics as instead of like Democrats, Republicans more, uh, libertarian, authoritarian. So get rid of those first labels where, where, where, where should our nation be on that spectrum? In the middle, like, you know, I've, I always talk about this, like one trip I went to and at the hotel there was a libertarian conference and these guys were trying to tell me that I need to get this on their passport because of. America's, you know, banking system fails. Oh, right. Do you know about this? Yeah, I've heard of that. You can get this other passport if your grandma is like a first generation. They're like, yeah, you know, if you're, if America fails or whatever, you can go to Italy. It was where I would be going. I was like, sir. Do you think Italy is going to be doing any better off than America if we are failing? Like, get all the way out of here with that. That's the vacant threat of everybody that's like, Oh, if Trump gets reelected, I'm moving to Canada. Well, Canada sucks worse. Yeah, it's just kind of like, Let's pump the brakes here a minute. It's still pretty okay to live here. I'm pretty all about localizing. I think you have to. I think globalization is Natural and normal, but it also, um, leads itself to like a one world government kind of notion and stuff and I think that's going to be terrible for humanity. And so localizing is more better. More better. I think that it's really important to be involved in your community and Know that like change happens from you and then Yeah. Outward. Um, but you can't ignore what's going on in the country because everything is so connected. Totally. Yeah. Um, so I think there is, well, in politics being used as a stick, like Yeah. Like Trump raising or eliminating the, the federal tax write off or state income tax Right. Was such. Uh, I don't know what the right term is, but a dick move to, like, California and New York. We don't know. Yeah. Right? And vice versa. Like, there was a lot of other things. Like, opening the border was, frankly, a slap in the face of the Republican Party in Texas in particular for not being, stepping in line in Arizona. Yeah. But it's like When it comes down to it, how does that affect us here in Fort Collins? Well, it will. I mean, you're showing a lot of signs of how they've been infected by Infected? Yeah, affected and uninfected. Oh, yeah, anyway. There's a strong infection going on in Europe right now that's gonna be dangerous to them in years to come. Okay. Um, family or? We can talk about family. I've already sprinkled in my husband. Yeah, tell me about Jason Moore. Where did you find him? We had mutual friends. We actually both moved out here in 2007 together. It's funny I never really like did the dating apps or anything like that. Nothing. Never. When I met him we I saw him at a party and I didn't talk to him, but he left and I was like, who's this guy? He's like, very tall, very handsome. And he was a volunteer firefighter at the time, so he had like his uniform on. You're talking about back mid Here. Mid what? Oh, here. We met here. When you first got here, he was like there right away. Yeah, so in 2011, literally I met him the month before I opened my store. Yeah, I gotcha. So, um, never, I never did the dating apps or anything like that. Like when I moved here, it was kind of one of those things where I went through my glow up and so people were like more willing to hook me up with people at the time. So was this a glow up, like you got slim, like you just had bad hair? It was anything you could think of, like it was a lot, it was a journey for me, but it's okay. It's okay. Here I am. Yeah. I mean, I've been not very attractive most all my life, and so it's hard for me to understand We just stick together, you know? I was 5'1 from No. I was 4'11 at the beginning of 7th grade, and 5'1 at the end of 10th grade. No way! Oh yeah. And then you had a big growth spurt after high school? Yeah, six inches a year. No, junior year and senior year, I grew six inches. No way. So when I went to college, I was 6 foot almost 3 and 132 pounds. Oh my gosh, just a little guy. Super sexy. Just a little guy. Yeah, a little guy and a tall guy's body. No, weight, like, weight, guys weight means like nothing to me sometimes. We used to sell tuxes and I always take Jason as my like, touchstone because I know how tall he is. Yeah, 6, oh yeah. And he wouldn't want me to tell you his weight right now, but I'm like, that sounds like an okay weight to me. I don't know. Right. So when guys would come and be like, this is what, how tall I am, and this is what I weigh. I wouldn't be like, no, it's not. You're looking me in the eye. Well, and some people are so much. Thicker and not thicker than others, right? Like, I got little bird arms. Like, your wrists are probably as big around as mine. So funny. But I guarantee you I can beat you arm wrestling. Or in a And throwing a ball, yeah. Or throwing a ball, yeah. You're so strong. Well, you know. You're sweet for that. Beautiful too. So humble. Humble. Most humble person I've ever met right here. Aside from me, yeah. So yeah, he is, we met, and um, I had to text him first, and our first date was actually the Super Bowl. Okay. Which, at the time I was like, yeah, okay. At the time, it was odd to me, because the Super Bowl still felt like, almost like Thanksgiving, like you spend it with your friends and your family? You're gonna bring me to your Super Bowl party? Yeah, and we weren't going to a party. We were going Oh, to a bar to watch it. Oh, okay. Just the two of us. And I was like, why doesn't this man have friends to watch this with? Why is this his first instinct? So, um, and then as I was telling our friends about the first date, they were like, well, you know, that's like a six hour football game that you're at this bar with him. And the way he tells it, he's like, we had parties we could go to cause we had mutual friends. And I'm like, okay, he just wanted some alone time. Yeah, I guess, which is so weird. So that was our first date. Um, but yeah, I had Got his number from our friend at the party and she was like, oh, that's Jason. He's single. He's totally looking. He's on Match. So I went home and I like, at the time, I got a Match account. Yeah, you could like go and look for free. Free samples. So I went and looked at his Match account and I was like, He had like a yellow crotch rocket at the time. He was like super just like Midwestern guy. I don't know and I was like, oh. Okay. But, um, yeah, it worked out. You've got two littles. We have two littles. They're seven and nine. And I would like a one word description and name for each of them. Okay. Everly, her one word description is kind of emotional. She's just so emotional right now. She's a nine year old. She's a nine year old girl. And then Griffin is just Goofy. I like it. Okay. I've, I've, I've been, uh, Whimsical was a name that actually that Larry Doggan gave to me. Oh really? He's like, you're just too whimsical. Whimsical? I'm like, I don't know, life is fun. It's good. Yeah, that's great. He's just like. Be groovy about it. He's here to have a good time, and I'm for that. The emotional stuff, I'm like Go see your dad. What's Evelyn's superpower? Everly. Everly, sorry. Her superpower is she, gosh, she can like Shake things off. You know what I mean? Like for as upset as she gets Yeah, have a meltdown. And then done eight minutes later she's like, okay, she's good. I like that. She's good. That'll help her. That'll do her well. Yeah. So resilience, I guess. Um, but I'm like, Ugh, can we like a little less You can avoid the meltdown. Yeah. A little less up and down. And then Griffin's superpower is, he's just like, Hmm. He's just like big man on campus already. I dig it, you know. He's awesome. And he doesn't try. He doesn't have to try. Right, right. It's just like, I go to his class, and his friends are Yeah, it's not like Napoleon Syndrome or anything like that. No. He's just like, got the cred. First of all, the tallest kid, so he's got that cred already. He's like, sporty, and these little boys come up to me, and they go, we're friends with Griff. And I'm like, I'm his mom. Beat that. So, yeah. They're funny. Uh, we haven't even touched on faith in this whole conversation so far. Oh, there is no faith. in your background? No faith. No. No. No. No. Oh, so when you were talking about physics, actually, I wrote this down. When I was a kid, and probably when you were a kid, there was like this kind of notion that there was either God or the Big Bang. Well, is that not still a notion? No. Seriously? No, you haven't been keeping up. Like, since the Can you tell? Since the Webb telescope came out and they've taken some measurements and stuff, now they're like The, the pictures of the Big Bang and the evidence around that suggests that it had to have been planned. There has to have been an intelligent designer that set up the criteria before this Big Bang happened. Hmm. Interesting. Um, so. I will research that. Those Christians, like myself, and, and just people that believe that, you know, laptops don't come from laptop factory explosions or whatever, like. Uh huh. Yeah. So anyway, that's the, that's the notion now is that there's too much. Um, math and physics database evidence that, like, the shit was figured out before it popped off. Interesting. Yeah. Where, uh, can you cite your sources on that? I'll, I'll text you some. Yeah, I would love to read about that. I can't remember right off. Did you ever? It was a Lex Friedman podcast was the big one, um, that maybe about, um, six months ago. Okay. Four to six months ago. Have you ever read or listened to Sapiens? I have. Okay. Yeah. I read that book. That was a great book. Totally. Meaty. Real meaty. Yeah, yeah. Um, but that's just kind of a book that I read and I'm like, how can people be religious? Yeah. Well, I, I think. Like, have you heard the term walking meatbags before? Well, like, if, if, if you're not religious at all, like, if God isn't real, if there isn't like a natural law, right? Like the natural rights of man kind of notion, and what, like, do we have individual kind of bursts of autonomy where we have kind of rights? Well then, like, they're really, then the state is either the, either the state is the decider of. All law, which isn't just all law, it's all right and wrong, which we've seen the state make lots of terrible decisions, our state and other nation states and whatever. Or the third choice is really that we're all just walking meatbags and there should not be any morality. And if I can further myself from stabbing you to death, then I should just grab your purse out there, your little fanny pack thing and like, bye, nobody ever knew you were coming on today. So you think the reason there is good in us is because of Kind of this notion of value, like I think you're valuable far and away above what value you have to me. Gotcha. Like I think you have an intrinsic value. I guess, I don't have a problem with like, I don't have a problem with any of that, I should preface that like, You don't discriminate against Christians or anything like that? No, never, never, never. Um, I just am always like, why is your religion the way, right way? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like, No, I've, I asked that question for ten years. Yeah, and so, that's where I'm kind of like, even, you know, I have some very Catholic friends, Sure. And then some very Christian friends, and To me, they're both the same, but they're, but they're not. Well, when I was, when I was graduating high school, like, Northern Ireland was bombing the, the Irish Catholics were bombing the Protestant Christians and stuff. And I was like, well, if Christians treat each other this way, I got no part of that. Like, I'm not interested. Um, for me, it was data driven. Like, there's just Too much in the Old Testament of the Bible that points to too much of documented real stuff in the New Testament. And it's like, well, it looked kind of like this is the best data set that I could find. You're calling that, like, data, though? Yeah, yeah. Alright. Well, things written down, like, so have you, you've heard of the term profit? Yeah. You've heard of a prophet, uh, Isaiah Mm-Hmm. the prophet and all these other prophets and stuff, and what people think about that term, that notion. Mm-Hmm. Is that a prophet is someone that predicts the future. Yeah. A, a psychic virtually a, a, a a for teller. Yeah. But that's like. A minor part of how the Bible would define a prophet, or students of the Bible, in reality prophets see things more clearly than other people. And like the bulk of what all those prophets in the Old Testament said was, You know, things like, you're doing it wrong, repent, change, do it different, because you're on the wrong track, and shit's gonna happen. And then shit happened, and they found out. Seize carded. Yeah, fuck around and find out, seize, well that, no, that was a miracle, not a, not a prophecy. Right? A prophecy is But you're taking that as like, facts. Yeah. Okay. Well, I don't know about the seize part. Uh, that could have been a metaphor. It's written in your data. It could have been a metaphor. I don't know. There's like, like It's all very like On the, like opening of Genesis on the seventh day he rested, like, it wasn't seven days. It was, it was epochs per, perhaps of time or things like that. Yeah. It's just metaphorical. And somebody created it. Yeah. And, and you can choose to or not to, uh, believe that that. thing that created it is still actively involved. Yeah. Like, to me, that's the big decision. Like, it's almost certain to me that Um, and whether or not that person is still, like, doing stuff, I don't know. Like, I tend to think yes, just because I've seen too many evidences of that, um, and because of a lot of documented stuff. And there's no proof. Like, it wouldn't require faith if I had faith, or if I, if it, like, it wouldn't be called faith if you could prove it. Right. Right. Just like a lot of physics in a lot of big space. Right. Yeah, I think the main problem I have is that like when people say religion, it's like Christianity, but it's like Why does that have to be the one that you go to? You know what I mean? Like, that's not everybody's religion. Oh, for sure. So No, that's why I call it faith. Yeah. Because I think it's more important, frankly, that a person has a faith in something that's beyond themselves than that they But why? For me, I mean, as a Christian, I would say Jesus wins, right? Like, he's the, to me, the clearest lens at the nature of the Creator. Okay. And the nature of a relationship with the Creator. And Like for happiness of people or or even just right sizing yourself and your Perspective like I would say I don't have that you don't have that and I'm happy Fair, and I'm you know aside when you know from stealing keychains. I feel like I tend to do Bring that back up again. No, it's fine. That's the right thing though. And who decides what the right thing is me just you I mean, not just me. So what if I decided the right thing was to stab you right now? I mean, but, why Well, the law would say it wasn't. I mean, people in the Bible stab each other all the time. So what's the difference? Well, but that's a story. That's not saying it's okay to stab each other. Yeah. Like, I think Have you ever gotten into the Bible? Have you? I, so Any background? So, we Um, we grew up Lutheran. My parents, I wouldn't say went to church. I was baptized Lutheran when I Christian Easter Lutherans kind of. Yeah, and then when I was in, I would always go with friends. And I would say I would go often with friends. Okay. And in probably ninth grade through uh, junior year, I went to church all the time. Like I would go to like church, church camps and like everything. It was your community in ways. Yeah, it was my community. And I think that's kind of where, It ended, like, there was specifically one church camp I went to that they were kind of like, this is when you should go up and be saved, and this is it. And I was like, this feels like a farce to me, like I feel not authentic. Yeah, yeah. And so I kind of like, dropped down after that. You know, I still, anytime anybody invites me, I go. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Of course. And then, you know, but then I am kind of reminded of like, It doesn't, like, feel right. But if you don't even really believe in a creator force, it's hard to believe in a salvation guy, right? But I believe in, like, the community. Okay. I believe that it is for people that need it. You know? Yeah. Do I think everybody that believes is good? Well, but then it's like, then why? No, I'm not good. But if they have this then shouldn't they be doing good things? Right, right. No, I get that too. According to you? Well, no, not at all. I guess I just don't get it. Yeah, yeah. And why is that the one that we always default to? Well, that was kind of, frankly, because the people that came here to America two hundred and some years ago, like, that's where they came from, right? I mean, I get that in conversation, but like, if we were in China or like in India, we would be having a completely different conversation about it. Right, or if we were in Europe in fifty years, we'd be Muslim. Yeah, I mean, maybe. Or die, probably. Oh gosh, okay. Yes, maybe. I don't know. I mean, yeah. We don't have to do a comparative religion conversation here, but, uh. But yeah, that's, I don't have problems with it. I have questions, is what I always tell my friends. And, you know, and they're nice enough to, like, sit down and talk to me. And, you know, I can talk about it all day long. Like, I was in that Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not foreign to you. No, not at all. It's just, and I would never tell my kids, like, uh, we're never going to church, like, blah, blah, blah. Like, I would let them do whatever they wanted to do. And, like, make their own choices that way. Yeah. So. Fair enough. I just want them to be good people and I don't want them, I just think when it comes down to, like, the Bible, people get very, like, picky choosy about what they want to believe and how they interpret it and how it works for them, you know, politically or morally. No, I mean, I'm an anti power structure guy. So, uh, I probably. Like in that libertarian authoritarian, I'm like way over on the libertarian. I would never be part of a big church, like be a part of a mega church. Like, I'd rather be a customer of Wells Fargo or JPMorgan Chase. Like it's gross and I'm not going to do it. Um, anyway. No, but I, I mean, for me, I, like I said, don't want to live in an echo chamber. I want to hear everybody's point of view. Everybody I talked to about religion. I, I think I almost prefer talking about religion over politics because, I don't know, it just, it doesn't get as heated, it just like, comes from a place of like, understanding. I hope I come from curiosity rather than Yeah, I mean, 100%, you know, and everybody I talk to is very much just like, well, this is what I believe, and I've lived it, and like, I've seen it, and this is why I believe that, and I'm like, okay, I believe, I get why you believe. For me, I haven't experience that. Yeah, that's fair. So, well, that's that. I hope you find it. Maybe. I'm not that worried about it. Um, and I will invite you to church, by the way. Okay. Uh, Christmas is coming up here, actually, real soon. So, if you're missing that Christmas Eve service, just let me know. Okay. Um, the loco experience, the closing segment. I know. I don't have anything. You don't have any crazy experiences? Okay, I, this is the dumbest story, but I'll tell it, and it's not even like that crazy, but I was like, what is one thing, because you were like, something nobody would really know about you, and I'm like, okay, well, there was this time in college, and it's not even that good of, or juicy of a story, but it's so random, and I don't think I told anybody I did this. Okay. I like it. It was, I had no, I had no job prospects, okay, I was very like, I don't know what I'm doing. And it was like the first time in your life when you were like. What the hell, I'm super awesome, why do not these people understand that? Just, you know, a reckoning. And, I was, I don't know what I was doing, but I was Online and they were like casting for this reality show in Atlanta. Okay. And Tennessee was only like three hours away from Atlanta. So I just like ditched school one day, went down to like this casting call. Yeah, yeah. For this reality show that I had no business like being a part of. I was, it was called Starting Over. Okay. And it was basically, the premise was these women had gone through some like big life experience and had to like. Literally start over like they had a divorce. Right, right. Lost a baby. Something. I was like, um, I'm graduating college Starting a new life like needless to say I did not get it But I mean what what a weird like college thing to do Like I didn't tell anybody where I was that day and I drove three hours to Atlanta I could have like anything could have happened So not the craziest thing I've ever done, but definitely like looking back. I'm like What was I doing? Like, the lost of all lost people. I, uh, nobody else knows this, hardly, except for a few, but, like, I went and talked to NBC when they were, uh, down in Denver for America's Next Great Restaurant. Oh, you did? I did. When you had your truck? No, way before. Oh, really? Years before then. No! And my boss at the time, uh, was like, Yeah, you can have the day off for that. And I took my friend Mike, we both pitched restaurants to Ameri And that was Kind of one of the spur moments to being like, I think I want to be a restaurateur instead of a banker when I grow up. No way. See, that's so funny. We have some mutual territory there. Just trying out for things. Yeah, why not? You know, they, they didn't call me back either. I know. I wish I, I mean, I guess I was like, I feel like such a square, like I don't like do. But I'm not. Like, I do risky things all the time. Frankly, I suspect that that moment had more to do with the rest of your life than you've given it credit for. I think so. Maybe. I was just like, you know, I'm gonna do this thing that nobody else does, which was like, kind of the vibe at the time. So, I don't know. I dig it. Um, I'm glad we spent this time together. Sorry for taking us over. Well, I know. I feel like I don't know anything about, you know, I don't, I like, I pride myself on being like the Oh, you want to, you want to listen to me more? Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. Well, you should have asked more questions. I know. I'm sorry. Next time. I just get into these stories about you. Bridal. I love you. I think you're cool. Thank you. Thanks so much, Kurt. I appreciate you having me on. Godspeed.