EXPERIENCE 140 | Disruption & Collaboration with Dr. Heather Rubin, Co-Founder & CEO of RapiCure Solutions

I met Dr. Heather Rubin at the Innovation Showcase event held at the Warehouse Innovation Hub in Loveland in late August. There, she and nine other companies presented their innovative business models to a broad community, including investors, manufacturers, consultants, service providers, reporters, and more. Like local think tank guys, Heather took home two of the four awards presented that day, the most disruptive business model and the people's choice award. We struck up an entirely enjoyable conversation after the event. And soon I asked her if she'd be a guest on the show. Heather's journey is an inspiring one. And I was struck throughout how her focus on collaboration was the key to unlocking this potentially disruptive journey. Initially hired as a consultant to evaluate university research technology, Heather fell in love with the opportunity to co found the venture and is raising funds and building a team to reimagine composite materials technology. From the website, our advanced composite manufacturing technology utilizes a well controlled, self propagating, frontal polymerization process to cure high performance composites quickly and effectively. For the laymen and laywomen out there, they make a fancy resin stuff that hardens like a flame front, quickly and with minimal heat required to launch or cure, which could change industries ranging from natural gas pipeline repairs to on site manufacturing of windmill blades and much much more. More inspiring than the RapiCure opportunity is Heather's journey to this point. Raised in a working class family in Baltimore, a first generation college student that found her initial inspiration in a Ben Carson scholarship when she was still in elementary school. This inspired a work ethic and self actualization mentality that served her journey, along with many mentors and inspirational moments. She's an amazing example for female founders, raising funds and building teams everywhere. And my sense is we've only seen the beginning of Heather's impact on the world. I'm excited to share her journey to this point and to watch as her company and community impact scale from here. So please enjoy my inspiring and entertaining conversation with Dr. Heather Rubin, PhD and CEO. Let's have some fun. Welcome to the Low Cove Experience podcast. On this show, you'll get to know business and community leaders from all around Northern Colorado and beyond. Our guests share their stories, business stories, life stories, stories of triumph and of tragedy. And through it all, you'll be inspired and entertained. These conversations are real and raw, and no topics are off limits. So pop in a breath mint and get ready to meet our latest guest. Welcome back to the Loco Experience Podcast. My guest today is Heather, Dr. Heather Rubin, and she is the co founder and CEO of RapiCure Solutions. So Heather. what's RapiCure? Yeah, thanks for asking and thanks for having me on. So I kind of know a little bit because I saw your thing. Yeah, I hope so. So RapiCure Solutions is a hard tech company. So we are commercializing a new resin technology that was invented at the Beckman Institute at the University of Illinois. And so ultimately what this means, we're ultimately making the glue. that can go into the fabric that you then cure to make final parts. So you can think about that from how we make bicycles and sporting goods and Sure. Corvette fenders. Hiking sticks. Automotive. Used to be Corvette, right? Yeah, so there's, there's automotive components. So, um, some groups will actually make hoods and they call them the bonnet in Europe. Um, and, you know, and there's also things like wind turbine blades that are, are really large and they require a glue that goes into that fabric. And so What's really unique about the glue that we're creating is that it's about 20 percent less dense than the typical Resin that they use today, which makes it lighter. It's very important for really big parts. It's really important for shipping parts. Sure. Um, and it's really important for, uh, you know, uh, more renewable energy, um, direction that we're headed. Exactly. Um, and then on top of that, the, the chemistry that we're creating, so my background is actually in organic chemistry and that's, I won't bore you with the details there, but, um, But fundamentally, it's a new chemistry, and what it allows us to do, we're creating these really durable, lightweight resins that, um, effectively with just the touch of heat, we can initiate a cure, and that is pretty unique. So, um, and it goes through a frontal polymerization policy. Usually Like, and you say glue, but like... resin or epoxy, are they all chemically kind of in the same family tree or are there different elements to this? Fundamentally the the molecules that are coming together are slightly different Okay, and in part that allows us to create products that have different properties. So if we think about what we need in You know, an airplane that might not be the same as what we need material wise, how it responds to different weathering agents, how it responds to different impact, things like that might, might be different than what we need for, uh, something like, like a hockey stick or, uh, you know, things that are undergoing, constant impact or a wind turbine blade that's, you know, constantly flexing. And so, um, so, so there's a bit of uniqueness there. And then these different resins have different properties. They might be better in one way, maybe a, there's some trade offs in other ways. And, and so our resin, again, We really has this lightweight component. And if we think about working with a traditional epoxy, so epoxies are kind of the, yeah, the most familiar with, you know, my first dabble with that as well was in, uh, boat manufacturing, actually, uh, mixing two part epoxies and assisting with, I think I told you I patched my kayak with epoxy after I wore holes in the bottom. Yeah, it's a great choice and, uh, you know, it's accessible, it's easy to get, very durable. So, our material is about 30 percent tougher than those epoxy resins, so what that really boils down to is, is, it's, it's a little better at withstanding damage from impacts, scrapes and things like that. But what's really exciting for us is the, this cure process. Right. So, so today if you've worked with those two part systems, like when I was making boats, we'd have to wait a day or two before we could take those materials and, and run them in the water or have a final part. Um, and so with our material, once you initiate the cure, it then cures the final part in a matter of minutes. And so, um, there for high throughput manufacturing. Sure. So when we think about the way that we want to create. Parts and, uh, the number of parts that we need, um, even things like drones, where we need to scale up these technologies. We need new materials that allow us to create those lightweight, high performance parts in our resin can offer. Some advantages in those well, economically and not just the, the weight, but also just, you know, time is money. Absolutely. So if you pour a bunch of parts together and you gotta wait for two days for them to dry Absolutely. Then you can ship'em outta your huge warehouse that you gotta store'em. Right. And we're talking, I mean, I was just mentioning an example of, of an at-home user, but let's think about industrial users for a second. Right. So I talked to, uh, a manufacturer. Um, that's making composite components and, and right now they use large ovens that they heat to 180 degrees Celsius. That's really hot in Fahrenheit. Right. And, uh, ultimately. Well, consequently cool the rest of the building. Yeah. Right. And then they, well, and this is one oven and they're curing, you know, 20 parts at one time. And that oven will be running for about six hours to cure their epoxy. So if they could use our resin, let's cycle those ovens up. for 10 minutes to initiate the cure and start coming back down. Talk about your CO2 footprint, your energy usage. It's just like turning more tables at a restaurant. Absolutely. That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. And so, you know, we're talking to people who are looking to, um, improve upon their current manufacturing processes. We're not trying to kind of reinvent the wheel here. We're, we're trying to work with customers directly to figure out how do we support them with their own internal Interesting. You know, development goals and, and how do, how does our resin create value with, with their development? Well, and so tell me about your stage in life right now. You're like raising capital, you're, are you totally pre revenue or you have some revenues for consulting things or it's more like grants and partnership support, R& D kind of things? It's a great question. You know, we're very privileged to have a technology that's been Developed with direct input from commercial partners and entities. Um, in addition, I have some experience working with epoxies and resins in the past. And, and so I've got a beautiful PhD. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I've, I've had some really wonderful experiences in the past working in the industry. And maybe we'll dive into that later. Um, but. You know, ultimately, I think what's, I completely lost my train of thought. Just where are you? What's your stage in life? So, thank you. So, so, um, where we're at today is, is that we've got these developments that are, are starting to re engage, right? So we've got some groups that we're working with, commercial entities that we're working with the university and, um, they, they are looking to scale up. And so, we already have some inbounds that way, um, but I would say we're in the early stages right now of scaling the technology for industrial partners in, in many different market segments across the composites industry. On top of that, we've also got some resin formulations that, um, have been supported through, um, some non dilutive funding opportunities, um, around, uh, the ability to extrude the resin and use that, um, for other, um, Applications. I can't go too much into the details of that project, but I'll let you kind of be creative in the way you think about where that might go. I'm sure it's just government doing something terrible. Oh, they're doing things that are wonderful! They're trying to prevent us from spending billions of dollars by using our resin to spend maybe millions of dollars. I like it. Yeah. And, and so we have some non dilutive funding. We're also actively applying for good fit, non dilutive funding opportunities where the focus is on scaling and commercialization. So we're not exactly in the nitty gritty right now of the fundamental R& D that you would see typically coming straight from university. Yeah. Um, and instead we're at a stage where we're looking to, to really scale and implement the technology. And so with that, we're also right now actively raising a seed round of funding. Uh, we already have over 1. 8 million in the bank towards that, um, looking to close on 6 million likely here in the next 30 days. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, so we've got some other conversations that are ongoing and trying to figure out strategically, you know, how to prioritize and anyway, it's been fun. It's been a journey. I remember when I was first getting entrepreneurial, I, yes. Uh, I asked my dad if he would, you know, be a partner in this amazing business I was going to create. And he's like, well, I don't know what I could possibly add to the conversation. And I don't know why you'd ever want to partner just for their money. Sure. And, and in your case, it's like your partners are actually these, these need havers in some significant way. And yes, in certain instances, right. I mean, and we, for the, for our seed round, there's a bit of flexibility here. We have. People who are interested for a variety of reasons, some from the impact potential they see, some people like the way that we're building out our team. And so they're really excited about, um, you know, supporting a female entrepreneur, you know, let's just throw that out there too, right? This is, um. I didn't notice. You didn't notice. I'm just kidding. Um, and yeah, so there's, there's some, some other, I think, exciting pieces to what we're building that's actually, you know, bigger than just the technology, but what we're really trying to build here in Colorado. So, yeah. Now, was this technology, like, I got the impression that maybe it stagnated on the shelf, like they developed it in Illinois. in Illinois at this place or something and then your company was kind of purpose built to grab that technology or find some technology in some fashion or talk to me about that if that's public. I don't know. Yeah, absolutely. I'm happy to talk about that. So I, I mentioned, or we mentioned at the beginning that I'm co founding this company and that's because I was brought on by a group called Innovize USA. Okay. So, um, we are, you know, a portfolio company of theirs. And so In a vise, their model is to look for opportunities where there's really impactful technologies, but there are not right now leaders behind those technologies. And then my understanding is that they're, they're then looking for people with experience around those technologies in the market space where, where those products might go to help create companies quickly and effectively and efficiently. And so given my, my experiences with epoxies and resins and, um, yeah, so I've, I've been, you were Miss resin USA before you were basically, yes, no, no, um, no, it's, uh, you know, I, I really enjoyed working with that community and, um, I've been very privileged with the experiences that I've had there, and I was excited for an opportunity to kind of come back into that. I didn't expect it, um, but ultimately, you know, the way this came about was that, uh, Innovize had found this amazing portfolio of, of technology at the University of Illinois, um, and there have been some, some development around that technology without going too much into detail, um, that for one reason or another just have not fully scaled and commercialized. Even if you've got a really good... It's not easy to launch an enterprise. Right. And you know, the inventors behind the technology are absolutely brilliant. Uh, but they are really good at what they do and they're very involved. So Nancy Sotos, she is, you know, the, the head of, uh, the Beckman Institute. So she's, you know, very committed to what she's doing there, but wants to see the technology be successful, you know, and, um, but her primary goal is, is with the university. Jeffrey Moore. He's, uh, these are professors at the University of Illinois. I see. So he's also very involved with the chemistry department. Right. Uh, Do they get like an ongoing license kind of thing too? If you guys are successful, Illinois gets like lots of juice. Well, I won't go into the logistics of all of that. It seems like a win win that way. But we do have, you know, we do have a positive business. Mutually beneficial incentives. Well, yeah, we, we have a relationship that's, um, You know, I think set up so that. So that everyone, uh, wins here, and, yeah. So, we could talk, I think we'll learn more about like the technology evolution and just even how stuff gets made and where you've been, but talk to me about like, the team now. Yeah. What are you most focused on? Sure. And then, like, Think ahead to like a year from now for sure and and what do you imagine you'll be doing? I know there's probably a lot of uh, what's what's that statistical phrase the where it's like Deviation from the standard deviation might be high on that guess but because it's so early stage, but yeah, tell me what you know If there's anything that I do well, uh, and you can talk to others. I've worked with me. It's planning and mapping really strategy, man. That's one of my favorite parts of building a company. And certainly, um, at the early phases. And so, you know, I've, I've got a pretty clear picture of where we need to be over the next, let's say three to five years for us to do what we really want to do. And that's to make a big impact in this space. And so, um, in order to get there, we of course need a team. And so Today, just for clarity, you know, we, um, really started ramping up operations. I came on in January. Okay, yeah. So, we're still It's a baby. Yeah, we're a bit fresh, but, you know, we've got some good support. You won two awards at the Innovation Hub, uh, thing where we met. That's right. So, uh, we were most disruptive business model and the people's choice, really, uh, thankful for the engagement there and the recognition, um, and excited to see that people are excited about what we're trying to build. And so coming back to team right now, we, we have a mighty team of about four. Okay. Um, yeah. Uh, because we have, you know, some fractional ish stuff going on too. Well, in predominantly right now, we've actually got some job offers that are pretty recent out there. So we are growing. Yeah, I've got, yeah, we've, we've got some, some folks in the interview process and, um, you know, we're actively hiring right now. We've got. I think three open positions that are posted. Mm hmm. Um, we've got a couple others that we're pulling kind of from the, our internal networks and trying to find the right partners. We're also being very strategic to bring on, uh, consultants and bring on representation where, you know, maybe it's not a full time employee, but there are people who bring a lot of value and they're vertical. And so we're, we're doing a lot again to, to strategically bring people in where our focus is. We're... I should have said this from the beginning, but RapidCure Solutions is very much a specialty chemical manufacturer. That is our goal, is to commercialize technologies that offer new opportunities to the advanced manufacturing community. Okay. And so that's ultimately what our resin does. And so with that in mind, our focus now is, is building the team around that. So there's a heavy emphasis on, on having the right smart people. to develop that. Um, so it's heavily chemists and engineers and then hiring up around the business and the commercialization effort from a logistics and operations standpoint is, you know, some of the backend business stuff and, and business development. Um, nobody really loves that word. Do you get support from, cause you've got like this, you know, what's the name of the innovate? Innovize USA. So do you get like Financial back office support or HR support or different things like that. So you're not just like, Oh, we need an HR manual. Susie, get after that. You know, I know you're a scientist, but yeah. So how does that work? Sure. Innovize USA, uh, right now is relatively young itself. So they're still trying to figure out their best. So I don't want to speak to what the long term vision is for them, um, but I will say with, with our experience, we're, I'm really fronting a lot of that right now. So, so all of those aspects, but again, this is not my first time being involved with a startup company. So, you know, I've, I have some experience doing this before and that certainly is helping to expedite. Yeah. Okay. When do we need to bring in? Different people to support on different tasks. What can can I do based on the experiences I've had, and how can we, you know, and it's interesting because most of the startup companies I've worked with, it's, it's a bit unique I think because most of the time I'm working with scientists. And so a lot of that work is around helping them learn how to be an entrepreneur, how to stop thinking so much like a scientist and expand that. And so I think it's a bit unique where, where we're coming into this and, and having, uh, Someone with experience. Um, anyway. Fair enough. Um, so what does that, uh, three year, five year strategic plan look like? Will you be manufacturing your own product and shipping it all over? Will other people be manufacturing under license for you? A combination of those things? Working with a lot of partnerships for new formulations. I think I hear you talking about, but yeah, any, yeah, tell me what you can touch on that. So it's not black and white. This is not an investor offering anything like that. Just a disclaimer. And I'll clarify that, you know, that. It's difficult to answer that question because it's not black and white. Right. It will vary a little bit depending on the nature of the relationships, on the specific formulations that are needed, how integrated those customers are already with their supply chain. Like I said, a set of standard products, I assume, and then kind of some customizing options for big buyers and whatever. So what we're doing today is we're developing different resins with slightly different viscosities. And there's The reason to that is when you look at a high level at how people manufacture in the composites industry, there are a number of different processes. And those processes will require different processing parameters. So if you are using something that looks like water, You probably can't use the same thing to come out of the end of your 3D printer. Right. Um, or if you're using something like water, you can't create a film with it. Right. People want to create film. Um, then, if you mix the two parts together, uh, we have to be careful that it doesn't, what we call, kick. So we don't want it to cure before we... put it where we need it to go. Right, right. Um, and you may have experienced this if you've done this at home, right? The container gets really hot and you're like, Oh, dang it. And then you have to mix up more material. So we have to tune those depending on the process that our users are using. So, um, we have to be mindful of those processes and that creates different product lines for us. Yeah. And you moved to. Loveland recently, like That's right. This, it's the Found Foundry is the big center there. Uh, we're at the Forge Campus. The Forge. I, I always say those two things backwards. That's okay. There is a foundry Program. Program. Yeah, but that's a downtown thing. Yeah's, yeah, Um, but the Forge Campus, is that the former HP campus there and Yes. Where did you come from? Because this is technology is Illinois you? Out east somewhere, I think, or maybe not, you were here? Yeah, so I came to Colorado a little over 10 years now. Oh, okay. So I did my PhD at Colorado State University. Oh, okay. I was very privileged to work with Dr. Melissa Reynolds. Okay. So you're not a stranger to the region. I'm not a stranger to the region. In fact, I absolutely love Colorado and everything that it's about. Um, I think for me, this is the first time that, that in the places I've lived, it felt like home. Yeah. Um, so I went to school. I tell people that a lot. Like the day after I was here, I knew I was home. Yes. It, it just clicked. Um, and You know, I went to, grew up in Baltimore, went to school in North Carolina, and then came out here to Colorado State for my PhD. And, uh, again, I, I was very privileged during my graduate work where my advisor was very mindful of bringing us into conversations to understand how much it costs to run a laboratory. She would show us some of the costs. Um, ordering, you know, she got us involved with a lot of that, um, reviewing, thinking about science very critically. Um, I'm so thankful for the journey that I had. And then she also had an entrepreneurial journey. So before she came to be a professor, she had a stint working in startup world for a bit as well. And so this was kind of ingrained in me from, from those days as a potential pathway for work. And so, um, when I started on. And at that time, we were tuning surfaces of medical devices and things like that. Okay. But fundamentally understanding the chemistry so that way you could effectively do that, right? Yeah. Um, and one big project that I had worked on and have patent in this area was on tuning the surface of And that's just a boring way of saying, um, these, uh, nano type materials that you can incorporate into different supports to create really cool, um, properties at the end. So in our case, we were making products that now were traditional polymers would Uh, have a biofilm or they, they just weren't good for biological applications and we would tune the surface so that way the bacteria couldn't grow on them or land on them. So that thrombosis was not a problem, which is, you know, biofilm formation on the surface. So anyway, um. Interesting. One thing that I looked at in that was, okay, well, why is no one using this today? And the big thing was cost and it really was prohibitive in terms of how to commercialize it. So I said, well, let's look at the synthesis and what can we do to drive down costs. And so I think from, from my time in graduate school, I was very cognizant of, well, I don't want to just make things. I want to make things that people are going to use. I want to make things that can really make an impact. And that lent really well to the next step of working with startup companies. So. Have you studied. Business economics kind of stuff, as well as the science behind it. Have I studied it? I don't know if I'd exactly say that I've Read lots of books and listen to lots of podcasts and things like yeah, I mean, I don't have an MBA I don't have an official business degree But you know, you seem like a business thinker like some people are just wired for business that I get from you a little bit. Yeah, I think A lot of it, again, is, is I'm just practically thinking about where I want to go at the end of the day and then what cards need to line up to get there. And cost is a big component of why we, you know, economics is so vital and critical to the decisions that we all make. The other one is relationships. So those are the two drivers, I think, when I make decisions about, you know, what to prioritize. Well, I think what's really interesting to me in learning this, that you've been out here for a while. And so, I guess, kudos CSU. For attracting a smart enough person that was then able to kind of attract a company, right? Like, yeah. Yeah. And should we start there with your journey with RapidCure? Like you were brought in kind of in a consultant or do you want to jump in the time machine and go back to Baltimore? Oh, man. What makes more sense? Well, we can do both. It depends on where you want to dive in. So high level, I like to talk about my background. Sure. I think it's important, um, for people to understand just who I am. Okay. Um, and so I, I like to dive in if there's time to kind of go all the way back. Oh, we got lots of time. Look, my clock battery is dead. So we have no idea what time it is. Yeah. Sounds great. And I've, you know, I've got a little more to work through here. You've got green tea and tequila. Yeah. This is great. Yeah, here we go. Back in the days of Baltimore. Yeah, um, uh, you're five years old. Oh, goodness. What's the situation? Yeah, so... You ready to go to school? Yeah, I, I... I grew up in Baltimore. Um, I was not in the inner city, just to clarify, you know, some people get funny about how you talk about it. Um, but, but I do want to say, you know, it was not everything was easy growing up and I wasn't from a very well educated, very intelligent, but not necessarily a very well educated family. Where, uh, can you circle me? Are you like... 30 something and so this is like not very long ago, right? Yeah. What is this late 90s or something like that? Yeah Yeah, this is in the 90s. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry, dude. Yeah. No, you're fine because Baltimore's been a lot of different things over the last it's been a lot of different things Totally, you know, and my my parents did grow up In the city. Okay. My parents had a very different experience than I did. Um, and so one thing that was really important to them, I remember my dad always saying to me, you know, go to go to school to get the job you want rather than the job you have to have. Mm mm-Hmm, And so for me, very early on also, I had, uh, you know, some family that, um, very early on made some, uh, just very different. life choices and the pathways that they wanted to, to go down. And so, you know, I was surrounded by what do I do, where do I go? And, um, at the time, I was just So you didn't have a lot of examples necessarily of education and, and No. And pursuit of excellence kind of thing. Yes. I, I am a first generation college student. I'm the first in my family to go to a four year university. Um, and, you know, that was powerful. Yeah. And I do want to mention that I was a recipient of the Carson scholarship. So Ben Carson, uh, isolated. Is he from there? So he's not from there. I think he's actually from maybe the Detroit area. Don't quote me on that. Um, but somewhere in that area, his story is, his, his background is actually quite interesting. Um, and But he, he was a neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins University that was in Baltimore. Yeah, gotcha. And so he and his wife Candy had started this Carson Scholarship Fund and so at the time they were finding schools in areas maybe that didn't have very high economic, socioeconomic status, um, and offering an opportunity to give an application to one student at that school to apply to be a Carson Scholar. And so when I was in elementary school, I received one of these scholarships. Um, I had a phenomenal fifth grade teacher, Ms. Kregel, who was part of that. Yeah, I never heard a thing about a scholarship. ever before like, 10th grade or something. And it wasn't, it wasn't for a lot of money, but man, to a kid that age who didn't have really an example of what that pathway could look like then in my life, when different decisions came up, you know, I was like, Oh, I'd. I don't want to do that. I don't want to lose my scholarship. And so it really became like this. Interesting. This interesting. Like guardrails on my behavior. Yeah, a little bit. Give you a goal. It gave me something to work towards. Can you, can I get a little more personal? Sure. Like, uh, did you have brothers, sisters? Were your folks working class? You know, bus drivers, factory, something like that? Yeah, so. Like, what was the circumstance? Yeah, I have brother, brother and sister. Um, and then at the time my mom was, uh, pretty much a stay at home mom. Okay. And she did. take in in home child care. So she got, she was licensed and yeah. And so, so I woke up to screaming babies, uh, in the morning. That was great. Um, but no, and then my dad, uh, drove drives, uh, he was a, um, tow truck driver when I was young, um, and then, Oh my God. Don't take my fucking car. Right. Well it was interesting because predominantly his company was contracted with the police. Okay. So he wasn't really doing like repo type projects. Oh yeah. Yeah. He was predominantly like first on the scene with big accidents. Oh, oh yeah, yeah. Um, but take your child to Workday was always interesting. I'm sure. Um, but you know, the one thing that I got from my parents, so after that my dad, um, became a truck driver. So he was driving tractor trailer. And the one thing that I got from my parents is, man, they, they worked hard. Yeah. They worked really hard. For sure. Um, but they really, really also fostered this mentality of, Work really hard so that you can play a lot harder. Gotcha. So, so as, yeah. We, we played as much as we, we did. Traveled and goofed around. Absolutely. What was that for your family? Did We camped. Really? So, yeah, when I was really young, it was in a tent. As I got a little older, we had a camper. And, uh, you know, this weekend, being in Colorado, we're camping all the time, right? And I was out with some friends that, I still camp in a tent, for the record. But, uh, I had some friends that had a little bit of a. Uh, a nicer setup with, uh, kind of a trailer on the back of a car and, uh, or like a truck bed trailer. And I was like, man, the building on this just reminds me of my first camper. So we had this camper that my dad, I don't know, we probably, I, we couldn't have paid more than five grand for this. It was, uh, you know, um, But it was an older camper, and I remember one day, the floor was so rotted out, my dad walked to the back and he fell through the floor, so he had to redo that. One day we're going down the highway, people are honking at us, we can't figure out what's going on, uh, eventually we pull off and somewhere on the highway we lost the entire back quarter panel window on the camper. Oopsies. Uh, you know, so, so we didn't, we didn't have really fancy things. But we really did spend, you know, my parents were very, I was very fortunate to have a very loving family. Yeah. And so I did always feel like I had a lot of support from my family. And when it came to vacationing, we never stayed in hotels. I can't tell you a time I ever stayed in a hotel. Um, I never flew. Until I, it was school related and I got an opportunity with school. Um, but aside from Rest One's was a really special occasion. Oh yeah, I mean Go to Pizza Hut, or whatever. We did have our 99 cent Happy Meal Day at McDonald's. Right. Uh, so that was great on, I think Tuesday night? Break for Mom on Tuesdays, yeah. Back when the ball pits were still allowed and things like that. Um, but yeah, that was Yeah, that's pretty cool. I mean, it's not terribly dissimilar from my own background, although it was 20 years earlier in North Dakota. Um, uh, but, uh, you know, that's a lot of, you know, labor oriented work and farming and different things like that. My dad's a farmer, um, but also I'm a first generation college. Um, talk to me about like. The person that you were as you kind of developed into middle school and different things like that. Were you Like increasingly focused. Were you getting all the grades? Were you doing all the sports? Kissing all the boys? Yeah, sure. Sure No, I would say my focus was very much on school. I think from a very early age I can't explain to you why and I I realize this because I've, I've gone back and found a box of, um, my old, like, diaries. Oh, that's fun. And it's so interesting to, to read the way I used to think. And so I can say, and, and also just finding copies of things I submitted at school and, you know, One thing that I've always been very mindful of is people, um, so that's something that's always been very important to me was how, you know, I can remember in kindergarten, for instance, like pretending that this child with disability was my boyfriend, so people would stop making fun of him. So like little weird things like that that I would do where it was like, I don't care about everyone liking me. Yeah, but like we should all treat people with respect. A defender of justice kind of thing. An advocate, I think, um, is, is part of if you do a Myers Briggs, it comes up for me. But at any rate, uh, when I was a kid, I think, uh, I was an athlete. Um, I still consider myself an athlete. So that was a big part of things. I always played sports. Um, I think again, a lot of my journey was because my parents didn't have an opportunity from their perspective to really be kids. You know, my mom started working when she was 13. My dad was, um, You know had left school. This is a time in the city where There is a lot going on with integration and things. So I think he left school at 15 like moved out, you know I think that there were yeah, there was just it just wasn't always a good experience. I think Gangs were starting to ramp up and what's your family background by the way? Are they immigrant family or anything like that? Like where's your folks's folks? come from? Yeah, so, uh, Where they've been in Baltimore for a hundred years? Sure, it's, it is interesting. So, um, both sides of my family, um, actually, they came over around the time of the World War. Okay. So, um, two. And so, ultimately, we don't go back very far. Um, so my last name is Ruben. That's traditionally, historically, uh, a Jewish name. And we come from an area on both sides of my family, I think from, uh, what was at the time, I think, Lithuania. Oh, really? Okay. So I'm mostly German and then Russian Jew is kind of the background there. But, um, and so my great grandfather was one of the first, uh, commercial, roofing companies in Baltimore. Interesting. So yeah, that runs deep, right? It might be, you know, deep down in there where your family practicing Jewish faith, uh, it was, you know, synagogue or whatever. Was that part of your experience? That wasn't directly a part of my personal experience for my grandparents, for certain grandparents. That was experience. Um, but we were heritage. It was your known heritage, but that's necessarily your Personal engagement. Yeah, I mean growing up we had like matzah and things and I never thought that like, oh, these are Jewish things So did you eat bacon the whole time? I did. Yes Yes, but but I am very mindful of some of those practices and um, you know, my great grandfather was Practicing Jew until the day he died, and so it was a bit mixed overall. Is this situation now, like in Israel Palestine, is that like, weird? Even though, like, you were not, like, you were Jews from Lithuania and stuff, right? Right? Or maybe, I don't know, I don't, is that, or you were first from Israel? I will say this about it. Yeah, tell me. The realization that based on, so I'm the only one in my family that doesn't have like more traditional Jewish look of dark eye, dark hair. Yeah, I look more German. Or Lithuanian or something. Yeah, but my, my brother and my sister, they pretty much, they do have dark hair. Gotcha. And all of that. They can grow great beards. And curly hair. Stuff like that. Oh, great. Yeah, yeah. That's phenomenal. Um, so, but it's. It. When I think about the context of people being singled out Just because of what they look like or what they believe in. Yeah, it's painful no matter what you know And and that doesn't matter where you come from. I don't think that that's just a painful realization that that's still Happening that we're all humans, especially I work in an industry where we all need to work together. You know, I am working with people, I can't say this enough how critical it is that we recognize that we are not a siloed culture anymore. We are a world culture. We can still be proud of our heritage and proud of our cultures, but it's ignorant not to recognize that we all Yeah. Are working together for everyone to benefit, right? You know, we, we need some, we need to play ball and, and find a common ground with China. We need to be supportive with other countries. We need to be supportive with the work we do with companies in India and Japan. And, and in fact, a lot of companies right here in the U. S. have divisions in other countries. Oh, for sure. Right. Where, you know, in my industry, Well, that's one of the beautiful things about a global Interconnectedness. You know, economically speaking, it's yes, beautiful thing. I love it. And, and so when we impose tariffs and we create these restrictions of doing work with people, that hurts us companies too. Yeah, for sure. So anyway, I won't go into too many of the details there, but Yeah. Well, you, as you were. Describing your position, I, uh, uh, the podcast I listen to occasionally is, uh, The Dark Horse. Brett Weinstein is the, the host and he, he's either a terrible misinformer or a, a seeker of truth depending on your perspective. But he made a statement the other day that, that it's kind of a, a re agitation of the situation between kind of Western values where we, we need to be collaborative and friendly with each other in a merit based society versus a lineage based society. Sure. And, and frankly, the Jewish people are also guilty of having kind of this lineage based society element, just as the Palestinians and some of that situation are as well. My favorite statement that I've heard around this whole situation right now. First of all, I just want to say, like, my heart goes out to people on both sides, you know? And, and. My favorite statement that I've heard, and I might butcher the language and it's exact, so don't quote me on this. Paraphrasing here. But I heard this on NPR the other day, and ultimately they had, um, someone who leads the Jewish faith, and then someone who also is speaking on behalf of Palestinians. Yeah, yeah, and the one commonality that they came to was, you know, the conflict is not truly behind or around Israel and Palestine. It's people. It's really the big conflict is people who think violence is the answer And those of us who think there's another way. And I think that is what I, personally, I think is the big problem right now. Is that, you know, I don't think that you fix violence with more violence. Yeah, for sure. So, at any rate, uh... Um, my family had a, had a matriarch actually, uh, a great grandma bear that, um, bear, I don't know, anyway, she was like the, the wise lady and, and it's a, it's a well used phrase, but the eye for an eye and a whole world going blind and you've probably heard that before. And, and my dad always. You know, shared that notion with me and and reinforced that it wasn't his words and it wasn't necessarily grandma's words But it was her culture for the family. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I started taking a word tangent But it's been on my mind a lot lately. Yeah, no, and it should be you know, and it impacts us We have yeah, you know, we've got people related to our company that are directly impacted by what's happening right now I'm sure and you know the other thing I like to think about When I think about different religions and the perspectives that they have is that I know people who are Jewish, who are Christian, who are Hindu, who are Muslim, right? And, and I know really good people, really good people that are all of those different people. Yeah, almost the same percentages of each. Yeah, just, just really good people. And so I think it's very ignorant, uh, to think that any of this is, you know, should, should be brought on for any reason to any group of people. And so I, I really think that. If we can get away from violence, that's really what we need as a global community. I just don't think violence is the answer. Yeah, no, it's the biggest distraction from progress, for sure. Yeah. Um, so we left off when you were kind of like high school, thinking about college, I suppose. Right. What were your sports, by the way? Yeah, so, um, let's see. My main sports were basketball, uh, I did soccer. I did softball, lacrosse was a big one for me. Okay. Um. Multisport? Yes. I was, I was multisport. I mean, even during the day I would go from school to doing homework on the way to, you know. Well, I guess it was school and then it was the school sports team and then it was club teams after that. So it was, you know, just super busy. I was in Girl Scouts till I was 18. Plug for the Girl Scouts of America. I like it. Yeah, that was great. Um. So you can build a fire if you need to. You know, the Girl Scouts didn't do a great job of teaching that. I guess it's different than the Boy Scouts. It's a little different. Um, but we did camp and had a great time, um, and learned, uh, I don't know if it's a Boy Scout fire. It was introduced to me as the Boy Scout fire, but the, the burn, build a cabin, burn it down. Oh yes. That's by far the, compared to the TP technique, build a cabin, burn it down is so much better for those listening. Oh yeah. Go to for sure. Um, and so you're evaluating like education options. And was this scholarship from Ben Carson? Was that, it was for college, but they granted it like. And I was in elementary school. Seven years or eight years before. Or whatever. And then had an opportunity to, you, you got mailed an application, it no longer had to come from your school. Every year after that, you could apply for additional funds. Oh, wow. Yes. So, I, I won again, I think it was in ninth grade. Okay. I won. Ms. Spearman, I think, was my teacher at the time. Okay. Who helped with my application. Um. So at any rate, yeah, so I, this was, yeah, this was a path for me. believing that you're special and that everybody else is too. But that you got a calling here and so sort. And I always had this feeling that this could not be it. You know I looked at the lifestyle of the people around me and what they were doing as they grew older and to each their own. But for me I That just didn't feel right. You know, I was very active. That was not really the example that I was seeing a lot around me. I was sitting on a porch drinking beer. It was more the neighborhood kind of thing and whatever. Well, it was a bit of the vibe. I mean, um, or, or a lot of, you know. And I'm, again, I'm not When the neighborhood kind of went downhill, it sounds like maybe while you were there, too. Well, no, not exactly. No, I don't, I don't think it exactly went downhill. Um, I think as I got older, I just became more aware of some of the surroundings and the, the opportunities to make bad decisions. I'll just leave it at that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I wasn't perfect. I'm not going to say that, that, you know, I did everything perfectly. I certainly didn't. But, um. I was very fortunate to learn from people who made mistakes before me, and not everyone does that. Some people follow in the pathway, and I also was very early on, if I had a friend that, that, You know, I didn't like the decisions they were making in their life. I would walk away from that friend. And, yeah, it's Did you call him out first? Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that seems like your style. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'd be like, you know, we can't, we can't be friends if you keep, if you keep doing this. If you're seeing people like this. Anyway, I don't want to throw anyone under the bus or go into details. They'll know who they are. Um. And so at that time in my life, it was, you know, I was on a mission and I was going to get out of there. I didn't know exactly where I was going, but I knew there was a big old world and I knew I was going to get out there and see it. Um, and so that drove a lot of the decisions that I made. And where, where was that first next stop? Yeah, so, um, so even when I went to middle school and high school, I went to magnet programs, which I used to call them kind of Uh, private public schools. So there were programs in the state of Maryland, I don't know, maybe these are everywhere, is my ignorance in modern education. Um, but ultimately there were schools that in order to be in those programs you had to apply. And you had to get into those. And so I was always operating, I went to one for middle school, I went to one for high school. Um, and that again kind of lined you up for college in some ways. Right? Um, I think when you look at the stats for where my brother and sister went to school versus where I had went to school. Um, the stats for, for graduation rates were significantly higher. The stats for people going to college were higher. Um, albeit, I don't think they were necessarily at the, the national average, but... Were you ahead or behind of your brother or sister? I'm the youngest. You're the youngest? Okay. Yeah, yeah. I learned, I learned. Yeah, yeah. Fair. Yes. Um, and so... Where, where does that take? Where did I go? The next real step? Yeah, so the next big step was in North Carolina. So I do want to say I had an amazing, I had amazing teachers and counselors when I was, I went to Eastern Technical High School. Okay. I'm throwing in all these plugs. Yeah, yeah, if you want to call out specific people, probably not very many people will hear it, but it's cool. Yeah, that's fine. Um, I think, I think her name was Jen Lampe was my high school counselor, and she really guided me to get out of the state. out and see what else was out there. Um, I also had, yeah, I had a math teacher and great Uh, teachers through our, um, my major and at any rate, um, what I'll say is it's important to me. I also had a phenomenal basketball coach, John Earls. Hi John. If he's still out there. Uh, yeah, so I had, I had these people in my life that showed me a little bit of what life could be and really encouraged me to try and pursue that. And so I had an opportunity to go to the University of North Carolina. I was at the Wilmington campus. Okay. And so that, that was my next step. And what was your point or set on? And like, were you. Did you know what kind of education you want to pursue or you were still exploring that or? Yeah, so at that time I was dead set on being a marine biologist. Well, yeah. Yeah, naturally. I mean, they got to play with dolphins, right? Yeah, totally. It's super cool. Um, it took a semester of biology, a couple semesters of biology, and I think that's all it took. Um, it just wasn't. Quite right for me and so I like to tell this story because I think I was a Spanish major and a dual major Spanish and marine biology. Okay. And um, I realized pretty early on that something was missing and I really liked the anatomy and physiology class I really liked the chemistry. I was doing really well in those classes. And so eventually, I made the transition after speaking with a professor who was in the chemistry department about doing research in their lab Okay. And so I got to do research and I was like, man, this is really cool. Oh, interesting. You know, I, we were working, um, I was working in the Almeida's lab initially and we were working on like a MRSA. Something that could break down MRSA. Yeah, MRSA is like a Staph infection. Yeah. Yeah, exactly And so that was just really cool. Wow, this is this is really neat This can really make an impact and the thing I loved about chemistry is like they taught you about all the tools Yeah, and then it was up to you to figure out how to use the tools. Yeah, I didn't necessarily have to It was less rules, more solutions oriented. It was a little harder, but I found it more mentally stimulating to get behind and think about. And it was hard. Yeah. One of my good friends used to work for CDC, now he works for Zoetis, and he's a researcher of drugs and interactions and proteins and different things like that, and you know, to hear him talk about the stuff he's working on, it's clear that he loves that. stuff, you know, whatever it is, it's, it's really interesting to just unfold fresh. Like all my things I learn is second or third or fourth or fifth or sixth and. But when you're researching, you're kind of learning things right off the grill. Totally. And you know, I think from an entrepreneurial journey, just to kind of loop it back in a little, this is, I think, something I really appreciate about the way I think too about the technology that we're trying to commercialize, right? I think it's really critical that from a foundational chemistry standpoint, that the material makes sense and can truly And that's something that, you know, is a little bit ingrained in me for my journey. Yeah. So did you shift into chemistry or something? I did. So I shifted towards chemistry and then, um, I wanted to continue at the time, uh, uh, with that group. And there was this new opportunity in an organic chemistry research group with Professor Jeremy Morgan, uh, to work with him. Yep. And yeah, he, Jeremy, um, definitely deserves a shout out. What he's just has a, an incredible. background and reputation. Um, tons of respect for him. And I was so privileged to get hands on training by him and to work with students in his lab. And so that is what really excelled me and his lab experience. Mentorship, his advising, is a big part of why I'm still on this journey I'm on today. I had every, uh, intention once I, I finished with my degree in chemistry of going down a pathway of working in industry. Um, but not only did I do my undergraduate, but then, uh, I decided to go back for my master's. And at the time I was also studying for MCATS, I thought, you know, maybe medical school is the direction to go. Yeah. Um, but. Jeremy Morgan really kind of encouraged me. I think I was leading research at that time. I had a couple of undergraduates that were working with me. And, uh, it was just going really well. Yeah. And so he really encouraged me to, to think about a PhD, to think a little bigger. Could I, can, you know, and, uh. It's funny. I say something about Loco Think Tank chapters sometimes about this experience of being in an setting for sometimes months and years, uh, that you can see yourself most clearly through the eyes of others. Uh, and, you know, it sounds like Jeremy was one of those that, that saw you, maybe a little more clearly than you yet saw yourself, and his encouragement helped you to really, whatever, set your point, or it was like, you have a special talent, you should get your PhD, dang it, like, don't just be some doctor somewhere, that's fine, but, be a change maker. Yeah, I mean, he saw, saw something, um, and, and helped, I think, really bring that out, and so, um, You know, he was very supportive in, in my journey to applying for and coming to CSU and, um... Okay. Are they, like, top notch in that program at CSU, then? Like, that's the place to go or a significant place to go kind of thing? Yeah, so when, when I went to CSU, they were one of the top schools in the nation for organic chemistry. Okay. So, my focus was... They're not anymore, or what? Well, I just don't know. Just kidding. Okay. They might still be, you know what, they might be... Even better. Yeah. Um, but they're still a top school. They're an R1 institution. The work they're doing there is phenomenal. Um, I think from my experience, uh, they have a really strong materials program as well. Okay. Um, and that was a bit unique to me. Not all schools actually do materials of chemistry. Um, sometimes that's parsed out as organic or inorganic and it's not necessarily as collaborative. Um, but when I worked with Melissa, uh, we had, she was joint. Uh, professor in the chemistry department and the engineering department. And so we had engineers and chemists in our group. And so collaboration was instilled from, you know, very early on. I just came to a, to a question, I guess, kind of, and it's a detour, but like organic chemistry is like carbon based things, right? So like Okay. Mostly ish, or, or, but there's, anyway, the point I was kind of coming to is that the marriage of those two things in many cases is what you're talking about here, because there's, there's inorganic elements that might be like fiberglass, or there might be like cloth that gets this, gets this resin in, which I assume is a, is it hydrocarbon based, this resin? Yes. Or can be at least. Yeah, so, so the resin, resin itself generally. And correct me, because I saw you roll your eyes slightly when I talked about. Organic versus inorganic. I did not roll my eyes at all. That's not true. I'm just teasing. Oh my goodness. Um, no. But you wanted to clarify me a little bit. Yeah, yeah. I guess what I will say is that, uh, no, you're, you're right. I didn't mean to level that accusation. You're I love that. Um, no, but it's, it's... Organic and inorganic chemistry kind of go hand in hand, right? So inorganic chemistry typically, and sorry if I'm butchering this for people who have other opinions, that's fair. From my personal perspective, the way I think about inorganic chemistry is that it's more related to metals and understanding the theory and perspective around the metallic side of a mechanism, um, how the metal, is going to be reacted or integrated into a chemical system. Right. The organic side is focused more on the carbon based products. And so you're absolutely right. Most resins contain predominantly carbon and hydrocarbons in them. That's the base source, right? Right. But there's also hydrogen and oxygen, nitrogen, sulfur, and these other atoms in there. Okay. Yep. But the focus... The, the, the vast majority of a resin is an organic material, it's a polymeric material. So we take small molecules and we put them together and we take monomers, then we make monomers and those monomers react together to make oligomers. Monomers are like little sets, you know. Yeah, like a small set of molecules tied together. Or even a single, even a single, that's fine, it can be a small monomer. And then we react that to create a couple that are bound together and that's an oligomer. Yeah. And then we can react them all together and, and get longer chain polymers. Right. And then anyway, we can get into the details of polymers if you're super interested. And well, a little bit because that's like, like the structure of the molecular structure, I'm guessing is inherently kind of different than metals somehow, the way the, the electrons and the. Yeah. Neurons and stuff all flow together and the, you know, I, I don't wanna do a full chemistry class here. No, we shouldn't.'cause we could spend a really long time getting into those. I would be one inch deep at a mile wide. Um, but what I will say is where I was, I was privileged through my journey was that I, I was oftentimes using metals. to, to facilitate an organic chemical reaction. So it was used as a catalyst. So it lowered the, um, activation energy for a particular process to take place or, or it was, you know, it was, it was activating a part of, of the reaction to help facilitate that chemical reaction. Sure. And, um, so they tend to go hand in hand. Well, in metals, like. You can tell when you're dealing with like a, uh, a wood stove or different things. Like they have very Interesting characteristics as far as heat transfer and stuff like that, which I assume is partly the relation here. In, on a chemical level, a lot of metals are actually surrounded by organic components. We refer to those as ligands. Okay. Um, but you, as an organic chemist, I did a lot of ligand design. And so I was creating the complex or the the piece that then coordinated or reacted directly with the metal. And that had an impact on the chemical reactions that it could do. Is this stuff that you can like see in like Microscopes and electronic microscopes and stuff or is this stuff that's like theoretical like what does the COVID virus look like and it's all kind of computers simulating how these polymers and bonds are connecting and yeah, I can touch on that. It's it's not really theoretical. Our audience is check it out, actually. Because, yeah, please check it out. No, checking out, I said. Oh, checking out? Oh, sorry. Just kidding. We'll bring it No, I'm boring everyone by asking all these sciencey questions. Yeah, so, so when it comes to structures, we can say with great confidence what the structure of a lot of complexes are, um, and, and that's because of many different types of techniques and different analytical tools that we have that are. extremely high resolution, um, this, this is not new. These are things that have been developed. So, um, again, we have tech And they're stable and you can take a picture of it while it's right there. That's a way of thinking about it. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, we're not necessarily watching, we can't really visualize the bond between most But we have analytical tools that we can point at things that make it very clear where things are in space. And we have different tests that we can run that let us know where the attachments are. And that's not theoretical. And what the forces are at play kind of. Right. And you can measure them too. And we can measure that. And so there's, and there's a number of tools for that. Crystallography for larger molecules can be very helpful. Um, but anyway. We'll stay out of the weeds too much. So did you go to work after your master's in North Carolina or did you go straight out for your Ph. D.? Or how does, how was that transition? Yeah, actually, after my undergraduate, I worked for a company called SGS. Okay. And that was, um, an environmental testing company ultimately. Okay. Uh, and that was, that was a great experience just to learn about. Um, it was also an experience to learn kind of what I did and what I didn't want to do. And I realized that that's not the level of chemist that I personally wanted to be at. There's no, just to clarify, there is nothing wrong if that is your goal with achieving that. It's fantastic. Seeing if there's oil pollution in this soil at a certain level. For some people, it's very fulfilling to have a very direct and understood, um, schedule. A known known. A set of known knowns. Yes, and rules. Some people really love following rules. They, they don't want the creative aspect of science and they're happy with that. They're not listening to my podcast anyway, so you don't have to pussyfoot around them. I'm not. We need them. You're right. You are right. I need that. I appreciate that. Those people are. I will hire some of those people in the future. If you're listening, you are valuable. I see the value in you and I'm ready to honor that. So it doesn't pay that much because it's not as good as the idea generator people. It pays better than you think. Okay. I'm just pleased. That's teasing you. But, yeah, anyway. Um, I love it. I love, you're such a, uh, advocate personality that I could really have fun, uh, pushing buttons with you probably, but I won't. Appreciate it. Because this is a polite podcast. Um. And so that was a not too far away exit and you bounced back to your master's then? Yeah, so that's when I had decided that, you know, I think I want to go to medical school. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, it was, it was similarly time to actually had a family member that had, um, uh, triple bypass procedure. And, uh, I learned it just through my radio radar, excuse me, um, cardiology. And I just became kind of obsessed with, Oh, interesting. Yeah. What, what goes on and how the body can. can, uh, rescue itself in interesting ways, right? And, and so I thought that was going to be my journey. And so I started, uh, signed up to, to take some courses to support with MCATs. I like got a couple of books, you know, um, and then, you know, as somebody said, are you sure? Well, actually this before Jeremy came in a little bit because, um, I think what was important here was I worked all through school, you know, um, and... What were you doing? Oh, man, all sorts of odds and ends jobs. We can go deeply into that, but just to name a few, I was a barista, I, you know, was a waitress, I, um, bottom painted boats, I, uh, um, I... Cleaned boats. I helped manufacture consoles and, and things for yachts off the coast of North Carolina. That's fun. Um, I did whatever I could. I tutored a lot. Um, I'd walk your dog. I'd do whatever you need me to do. So you're kind of working your way through maybe a little bit of loans. Oh, you coached too. That was a big one. Oh, I coached. So I played lacrosse at the time. We had a club team, but that was the highest we had. So we played other schools varsity teams and their competitive teams. Okay, because that was the highest that we had at the school. Um, and when it came down to it when I was coaching, I predominantly was working with a middle school, a private school. Coaching basketball I think is how it started and then got brought on with their lacrosse team, um, worked with some really amazing people there too. This is hopefully a common theme too. I apologize slash maybe I'm not sorry, but I just really appreciate the people who have, who have been part of my journey. Um, and even in, you know, small ways they've made big impacts on me. Um, and so at any rate, I, I worked all these different jobs. Yes, but what I was trying to get to before we derailed here. Um, I have a world class conversation derailer I think that's your job a little bit, right? But what I will bring it back. Okay So to bring this one back because I was working a lot And, um, you know, it's, it's challenging not having support and, and trying to figure it out. I remember times that I was, like, poor to the point where I would buy noodles and, and, you know, just make a whole thing of noodles. And if I was feeling real bougie, um, rather than my normal butter and garlic powder, I'd... Cut up a hot dog and put it in there, you know, but those are special occasions. Um, anyway, so, so all that to say that my GPA was good when I graduated, but it wasn't great for medical school. So my thought was, I'll go back for my master's because it gives you a bump. Right. And then they'll look at my GPA for my master's. Right. So that was my mentality behind my strategy. And that of course got completely derailed when I started working with Jeremy. And I just, you know, had a very successful and very positive experience working with him. Yeah. Very cool. Um, and then straight to... Then I ended up going straight to Colorado. So I finished my master's, uh, what was this? Summer of 2013. And then, uh, had a few months and moved to Colorado. For a job? For a... I, I've been to Colorado once before and I'm gonna move there, or? Because I got accepted into their program. You got accepted into CSU. Okay, I wasn't clear. And that was, I had made the decision that if I got accepted into a place where my life could be significantly enhanced outside of just school. Based on the community, based on activities. You know, when I was in Wilmington, I surfed a bit, I biked a bit, I ran a lot. The outdoor culture there and the level of fitness and mindfulness around the environment. Um, I'll give another shout out to Bonnie. Hey, Bonnie. Hey, Bonnie. Um, Bonnie has created a magnificent program, the Plastic Ocean Project. Highly recommend people check it out. Um, but, um, At any rate, this was, she worked in the office in the chemistry building and now has started this program. She, um, anyway, I'll leave her journey for her to tell, but, um, where they're, they're looking at, at plastic pollution and how to, to impact and educate people on those problems. Um, so anyway. It's pretty big. I think it's probably the. It's the biggest not talked about problem in the world right now, or one of them. it's a massive problem. Like we all eat like a credit card worth of plastic every year. And it's like messing up our testosterone and our estrogen. Right, so it can influence your hormones and things like that. All that. Again, I am not in a place to speak about that. I'll stay in my lane. But, um. But it would be better if we ate less microplastics, for sure. It would probably be better. Yeah. And, and it would be better, again. Like, even beyond us, when we think about the other creatures and, and cycles and things that are living out there, and the impact we're having, um, pretty important to be mindful of, so. And I microwave my chili in a plastic container today. Well, but I rarely do it, but You know, I will say this though, um, First of all, without getting too much of the weeds. No, let's hear some resin knowledge. Yeah, there are different leachates and things like that. I'll let you look at my containers later. Tell me if they were safe. Okay, I'll let you know. Um, actually I'm not positioned to do that either, so don't, don't bring me in on that one. But, um, but what I will say is like, um, it is interesting to be mindful of, you know, reduce, reuse. Recycle. The first step in that is reduce. The second is to reuse, then recycle, right? And if you can think about that when you're making decisions, that makes a big impact. Well, and as a, as an economist, I'm, one of my passion areas, I guess, is unintended consequences of policy decisions. Yeah. And, you know, the, the great rise of recycle availability and culture and being like naughty if you don't throw your coffee cup in the recycle afterwards is like. We increased the heck out of how much stuff we throw in the recycle bin, like we could, what was the first one? Reduce. Reuse. Reuse. Far more important. Absolutely. Than recycle because recycle Just gets burned for energy in Indonesia or something if it makes it that far. Yeah, well, unfortunately a lot of it I want to I don't want to completely badmouth the recycling in aluminum because the well and in even in plastics There are amazing companies out there doing some really groundbreaking work in that space and I don't want to discredit the yes And the economics doesn't work very good right now For certain industries, for certain groups, and there are, I'm even seeing new technologies about additives that help improve that. Really? Good. Yes, and so there are advancements. It should, it has to work, you know, we gotta be able to figure out how to make it work. But, to your earlier point, this is where, um, policy, policy can make a big impact. Behavioral economics is something you should study someday, you'd be fascinated, I think. The other thing that's a little bit challenging, the one thing that I, I, we have to start somewhere. Right? So one example I give is when you think about wind turbine blades. When they were first proposed, The amount of oil that was going into making those products. Nobody wants to talk about it, but it was not great as a lubricant, as a all sorts of things. I won't get into the details, but it wasn't great. And that was not scalable and sustainable to the scale at which we're using today. But what I will say is if you look at where we're at today with the efficiency of wind turbine blades. And even the lubricant, that gets changed, like, it's much more rare now. Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, I'm not Yeah, much more durable and Much more durable. So we had to start somewhere Because of the material science on these bearings and things like that. Yes. Massive propellers that we're making smaller and lighter because of your RapiCure stuff. Exactly. RapiCure juice. But it, it took, it did take someone with a vision. It took someone with a vision. Yeah. Yeah. And so I don't, I don't wanna hate on the recycling capabilities and technologies. I do. I'm excited to see the future growth that I expect in that space. And I think once we we're in this weird chicken in the age egg place. Right. I just wanna go back to the little house in the prairie personally. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's cool. You know, which part of it, uh, you know, the fending for yourself in the middle of the wilderness stuff? Oh, the sustainable living side of things. Plastic cups in Little House on the Prairie. You just use that same old water jug, fill it out of the creek. I will say that plastic convenience has made certain living spaces extremely safer and cleaner. Yeah, for sure. So there, there is a place for plastics. I think plastics, oh, this is gonna be a really bad pun, get a bad rap. Sorry, um, but, but you know when you, when you think about Where plastic has come in, it's really allowed us, I mean, think about even electric vehicles. Huge. The entire battery box of your vehicle is probably made with a composite. Sure. And that contains a resin, a plastic, a glue. And you know what? We couldn't achieve those efficiencies and start light weighting and all of that without having those glues. So there is a space for all of this, but the key is reduce. Reuse, then recycle. Fair. Um, and we really need, like you mentioned, we need the, the cost on these recycling processes and capabilities to come down slash find avenues and pathways for those recycled materials to go into. And I get excited about the opportunity there because these are opportunities for great companies to be built. That's true. You know? Yeah, wherever there's an opportunity at value, uh, there's an opportunity to create jobs. Absolutely. So, I don't know. It's not black and white to me. So, you come out here, get a PhD, and then were you working in industry for a while after that? Or when was this? This was 2013, did you say? 2014? So, I came out in 2013. I finished in 2018. 18. Five years, huh? Yeah. Some people get them in like two or three. Oh, not PhDs. No? Not chemistry PhDs. Alright. Just check it out. I think the average is four to six years. Okay. Alright. The worst I've heard What's that experience like? Like, talk to me about getting a PhD. Cause you gotta come up with like a big idea, right? To some extent. But there's all kinds of other stuff, right? It's like boot camp for smart kids. It's so interesting and I don't want to spoil. I'm not going to poison the welfare for other people. So, um, you know. It was not easy. It was not easy. It was very difficult for me. Um, I had, uh, you know, quite the experience through that and, um, really a lesson in, in learning about. People and culture and how to collaborate and work with people and how to prioritize good people and good relationships and so for me, it was just a wealth of learning, but it's a lot. It's very humbling. If there's anything a PhD teaches you, it's how much you don't know and just to be clear, I am a very well educated person that doesn't necessarily coincide with an intelligent person, right? So, so I want to be clear about that, that that does not necessarily make me a better human. Because I'm educated, that has opened certain opportunities for me. But I do want to be clear that you can still be an extremely intelligent person, despite maybe not being educated. I just had, uh, Mark Torres, the CEO of Chiba Hut on as my last guest. Uh, we just had, and he was a middling student with a political science degree from CSU that failed his drug test to get. Uh, job with City of Fort Collins. And so his buddy said, well, you should go try to work at Chiba Hut. I bet they don't drug test. But he's an average guy, you know, first generation college student as well from a family of, you know, lower middle class background. And he would probably tell you that he's hardly ever been the smartest guy in the classroom, in the, in the boardroom even. But he's brilliant in his own ways and he works hard. And I think that's so important is to recognize, again, it's not just honoring, but it's appreciating and truly, uh, valuing people and their experiences and what that brings, you know, again, my father, for instance, was not very educated. He's a very intelligent person for sure, you know, and so there is a difference and and I strongly encourage we have some job Openings out there, right if you see something in man, I don't have the schooling. I can't do that 3. 2 GPA There will be people who see your value Yeah So keep that in mind and find ways to think about the things that you're creating and how can your journey? add a unique and perspective to what someone is building. That's the way I like to think about, about people. Yeah. Anyway. No, that's uh, insightful. Well, and I think what you're saying is, you know, In your PhD, you discovered that indeed there were people with more brute force intelligence than you, probably. You know, there's a little bit of everything. But also that working with people is the key. Yeah, there's, there's everything when it comes to academia, right? There are egos that make sense and some that don't. There are, there is privilege. Some people whose, uh, I think the vast majority of people are, come from educated families. Sure. And so it does, it is interesting, um, Being in that experience and, you know, everyone you talk to, their, their families are quite educated. Right, right. Um, don't be discouraged. Um, but, you know, there's different impacts of, of your background that weigh on you in different ways. And, um, I had to do this. I had to get to where I wanted to go, so that way, um, you know, I could create the legacy that I want to create for myself. And, um, that doesn't necessarily weigh on people in the same way who don't have the same experience that I did. Yeah. Well, and other people are driven by different, you know, just like there's research scientists that just want to have a very guided, known. journey, uh, there's, there's others that are driven by different things. Right, right. So, you get your PhD. Right. Worked your butt off, got it, uh, and then, what, what happens from there for a PhD chemistry? Was it kind of, were you already developing a specialty in this resin space? Or not necessarily? Not exactly. So, I had worked with polymers like I mentioned for biomedical devices. Yeah. So I'd incorporated some small compound. Anti bac stuff and whatever. So we were, we were working with blood contacting devices. I found myself going to, um, some really special conferences where I was meeting with mostly doctors and, um, I don't know if I was the most qualified to do this, but standing up on panels and answering their questions about materials and where we were headed and where we were going. And yeah, it was interesting. Um, and, and ultimately, For me, I had a lot of opportunities that kind of, I think initially I was discouraged, you know, you start looking for a job and it's like, it's a bit overwhelming, right? And there's a lot of competition and a lot of people are hiring who they know, right? Yeah, yeah, that's what I tell people sometimes. You know, the best jobs aren't even posted. So apply to the companies that you think you might want to work for and try to make them like you. Right. It's so true. And so actually, I had already accepted a position to go create basically these nano sensing devices that were going to be embedded in the body. Okay. Uh, yeah, I know. Wild turn. But they were interested in a specific type of chemistry that I had developed during my master's. Okay. Yeah. And so there was a really nice parallel there to go and this was going to be in Singapore. So I had already committed to that and that's where I thought I was going. And then I had these two other phenomenal opportunities come up. One was to take I had been developing during my PhD and apply that to, um, creating sensors for nerve gas agents, which was a proposal that I had written on during my PhD. So these weird opportunities that were popping up and, you know, I met again, some really fantastic people. Sensors for nerve gas agents. So like sensors that could detect if somebody was trying to gas your people or whatever. So, yeah, they were basically using these complexes to bind. What I, what I was proposing was binding a nerve gas agent and then they would, let's say, light up or have some sort of detectable change that would allow us to not only bind them but also detect the binding. So, think about, People in war zones where there are these, uh, toxic substances that they get exposed to. How can we create devices and materials that alert them and help them in those types of scenarios? Yeah. And so, that was something that Interesting. No, it's really interesting. Materials can do some amazing things and they're If you get behind the right ones that are scalable and commercializable, man, it's super Well, I'm a farm kid and, like, just seeing the evolution of of seed science over the last 50 years has been amazing. I mean, we were hoping for 30, maybe 40 bushel wheat when I was a kid. Now it's 70, sometimes 90. Well, and beyond that, I'm seeing some really amazing technologies coming down the pipelines that can make it even better. So right now we're, you know, we have so many concerns over. climate change and what impact that's having on plants and our food. And so even if you're not thinking about climate change, guarantee the people making food for you are. And, um, you know, we're trying to get ahead of, okay, if growing seasons are shorter, they're different, how do we combat that? And some of that is going to come into unique... solutions that are being created by material scientists, um, to coatings for seeds, coatings to prevent against, protect against frost, fungus, some really brilliant minds out there developing those sort of things. So I'm, I'm very optimistic. Well, and I've got kind of a, uh, we can talk more about this later, but the, the mother nature doesn't like being trifled with too much. And, uh, so you get too fancy and she like freaks out. Outcomes razor, man. If you can, the simplest solution is often the best. Yeah, yeah. True. Yes, but sometimes, you know. So you started describing the first and then soon the second other opportunity that came across your... Yeah. After you'd accepted the Singapore job? Yes. So, so I had this other opportunity using these... These metal organic framework kind of systems and, um, and that was super interesting to me. And then I heard back from this company called Melinda Inc. So Melinda was, was down in Denver, they still are down in Denver and, um, they had just gotten a strategic investment by a large Saudi Arabian chemical company to scale and commercialize their operations. And they were looking for someone to come in. And scale the technology, uh, and really build out on the technical side of what they were trying to develop. And so I had had some polymer experience. It was an opportunity to stay in Colorado. I loved Colorado. Yeah, which I assume isn't, most of the jobs you were looking at weren't here. No, they weren't. Yeah. They weren't. Um, and so this, this was one that was here. Yeah. And it aligned. And it was almost exactly what, if I could have written at the time, my dream job for the next step. Man, this was it. Yeah. Because this was the next step of taking polymers and understanding them at a deeper level to create something that could scale and create impact. So we were commercializing recyclable epoxy resins. Oh, sweet. Yeah. It was pretty cool. Uh, and again, I got to, to work with some Convert them for power. Just kidding. Yeah. Right. Well, there's a lot of things that they could do. But this was my first taste of composites, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. So, yeah, so predominantly we were working with companies within the composite space that had really strong sustainability goals and initiatives. And when you say composites, that's because it's kind of this... this base material plus this glue slash resin kind of thing, right? It's two part. Yes, composites can mean a lot of things. What I'm talking about is the, the composites market as it relates to a fabric with a resin that then gets cured or, or. Molded, whatever, into a final part, yes, and so in that regard, um, you need a fiber component and a resin component. It can be carbon fiber, it can be Kevlar, it can be aramid, it can be fiberglass, but there's, there's typically, or even natural fibers, but there's some sort of, you could spray me in a light coating of resin and my shirt would be all hardened and We could, I wouldn't recommend it while you're wearing it. Take it off, yeah. Um, but yes, you could. Theoretically. Yes. Any material, just about, right? Like you just, because the, the, the hard stuff, that's just the framework for it. Yes, as long as the material is adsorptive, so the solution can penetrate through, and, and then the other component is that it, the, the resin, the glue, has to interface with it, right? It has to glue to it. Have a nice bind, yeah. Yeah. It's kind of a little bit like rebar in concrete. You know what? You can make composite rebar. Oh, really? Yes. You can make rebar out of carbon fiber and glass fiber. And the, the, the breakability and stuff is probably super low. It can be very strong. Um, and those materials are significantly lighter. Sure. So depending on the structures you're looking to make, if lightweight. is really critical for you, then that can be a priority. Very cool. So you take this job at Melinda, I assume? That's correct. So at the time I came on as VP of R& D at Melinda, and at the time they had just a couple commercial customers. They were working with a process called solvent dip. I won't go into the details. We'll just say they were working with a process that we needed to Kind of completely revamp. Um, and so towards that goal, what we ended up. What I ended up doing was, was coming in and saying, yes, I can do this, um, and figuring it out because that's one thing I knew I could do was figure it out. And so there were times where I was borrowing from other friends and other labs, different glassware. So I could, okay, can we run a Dean Stark? Can we do this? How are we going to, you know, just trying to figure out how do we scale this? How do we get rid of certain components in the way it was developed? How do we cut costs and scale this up, et cetera, et cetera. Before I knew it, uh, we scaled the technology, um, with a tolling facility partnership. So those are groups that basically they already have the capital equipment, the mixing techs, the things that we need to create bigger batches and, you know, eventually hopefully get towards vertical integration on that. But ultimately working with those kinds of groups, so that way we can create. big batches of material. Yeah. Well, and the, what I hear you talking about is a bit, the, the win, win, win, win, like looking for that partnership and that supplier and that need haver and business. And one of the most fun things about that was, again, I was very focused on the team and making sure that we had the right team that could work together and cohesively develop the things we had to develop because we were moving. Yeah. You know, we were doing these customer supported projects and, uh, we needed to work quickly and we needed to meet their needs and, and so I learned so much while I was there, um, with regard to, you know, how the industry works and how to take a technology through those steps and, um, at any rate. Yeah. So was your next step kind of your independent consultancy already or was there another? Yeah, so there were a couple of things that overlapped there, so tell me about that season and sure where are we at now? It's like is it 2020 season like it's so we're a little bit beyond 2020. So I was at Melinda for Let's see. I think it was almost four years around there. And so Don't quote me on that, I don't remember the exact timeline. Um, but, but ultimately, Look at the LinkedIn profile, we'll see it. Yeah, yeah, it's all on there. Um, but, but ultimately I started getting a lot of inbounds from people who were asking questions. Some of this was investors, right, who were interested in having someone do technical diligence on the technology side. And I had, um, been involved with, with reviewing for, at that point, the National Science Foundation. Um, I, I had gotten connected through, um, the Early Stage Capital Retention Grant Program in the state of Colorado. Okay. Um, through the Office of Economic Development and International Trade. OEDIT. OEDIT, yes. Yep. And, uh, wonderful, uh, program that we have here in the state of Colorado. Man, um, so grateful to, uh, the leadership in the state to recognize entrepreneurship. Is that Glenn? Still in? Glenn Plagens? Is he still with that office? He was with the SPDC for a long time. I worked with, so there was Katie Wolslager was a big part of, I think she was kind of leading at least the part that I worked in now it's Rama Harris, um, and there's been some other just really phenomenal support. Kudos to all y'all down there. Yes, it's so great and what they've built and what they're doing to, um, enable and support companies that are looking to increase economic viability and stability for the state of Colorado. Looking, companies looking to grow and build and create opportunity here. Anyway, very cool. Um, and so, so I got plugged in helping, uh, with the advanced manufacturing, um, Kind of program there. Okay, and and that was also again. I was looking at technologies and and vetting Companies and you were doing that while you were working on this other full time thing. Yeah, so it's not a big lift Yeah. As a reviewer. Right. I'm not managing it. You're touching it. Yeah. And same thing with like the, the National Science Foundation. These are programs that are supporting the work that I'm looking to do and be a part of. Yeah. Part of it is just giving back to those communities. Yeah. Right. And so it's important, I think, again, it's, it's showing that like, Hey, you valued me, I value you. So I want to give my time and support. And then, you know, the bonus for me is I really enjoy it. Yeah. I absolutely love mentoring, supporting, creating those connections. I really am a firm believer rather than the competitive side of things, whenever there's an opportunity for all ships to rise, that will always be the pathway that I think is the best to take forward. Right? And so we can all give a little to get a little, I think. Yeah. And so, um, being a part of those programs, you know, I started getting more inbounds. I also had more connections with other companies that in, in the startup space, and they were looking for support in different ways. Can you help with this grant? Can you help with our operations? Can you, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So one thing before then, you know, before I know it, um, I had started really having an opportunity to consult. And so I stepped away from Melinda and started focusing a little bit more on that and where I wanted to go. Um, so I started working with a group called, um, incubator called Melinda, who was working with was supporting them with, with their, um. It's like an established consulting group of sorts already. It's not a consulting group actually. Okay. It's, it's, man, um, how do they define themselves? In some ways it's sort of like a startup incubator, but their focus, first of all, which I love, is on people and seeing the potential in people. Okay. And then it's also with helping very early stage technologists. Interesting. So I got connected through Activate because Melinda had previously. been, uh, a member of one of the early cohorts. And so I had spoken as a female in entrepreneurship on a panel. Um, so Activate does a phenomenal job of offering, um, if you make it through those programs, um, support to. Um, scientists that, or, or, it's not always, any kind of technical founder maybe, usually technical founders, yes, but maybe not digital technical as much as, well, there's different, they have different, okay, anyway, anyway, you should look into it if you're interested, but what they do ultimately is they provide the basic, the first two years, uh, quite a few resources that really help those companies take off. And not just financial, um, they help with laboratory access for developing tech and they also help with entrepreneurial skills. And that is, is super powerful. So maybe not totally foreign from like the, the warehouse down there that's your neighbor with Allison. Yes. Not too terribly different. It's a little bit different because again, the focus is, is usually on early stage. It ends up being a lot of scientists that are getting into entrepreneurship. Some of them might even still be finishing their PhD or finishing school, it doesn't always have to be a PhD, um, but at any rate, uh, got involved with, with groups like that and um, some other opportunities to help investors and help people evaluate technologies. Yeah. Oh, so that's where you learn some of your skill set in relating to. this group checking out this Illinois technology. Yeah, so I imagine. So actually, I came into conversation with Innovize, and I was speaking with them for six months or so, um, before I So, uh, initially I was looking at a number of different, predominantly polymer technologies, you know, being kind of a few different things, kind of. Well, I wouldn't say snooping, that's a strong word, um, but what I will say is advising. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. And um They were already snooping and they wanted you to help them. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's, and this is very common I mean, it's due diligence, right? It's due diligence. That's exactly what it is. Appropriate snooping. Absolutely. You know, and, and Yeah. So, so there was a bit of a relationship there. What can we really do with this? What's the potential market size, et cetera? Yeah, things like that. And, and this RapiCure solutions technology was one that, that we talked about several times. Yeah. And so it just made a lot of sense. I think initially, um, I was a little bit hesitant, right? I was leery of coming into a startup company and running it myself. You know, I was already starting to. So I, I do a lot of things and you know, I have some, some backend dreams of, of being more involved with non profit space and yeah, you know, there's some other goals that I have. You're working hard now so you can be what you really want to be someday. Yeah. Which is. Um, you know, in many ways, in many ways, I think there's, yeah, maybe I am in certain ways. Right. Um, I like to think. No, I think so. Yeah. No, I, but I, like the opportunity is now for this and it's, uh, not the last stuff on your train. Well, and the other thing I will say is that I think it's really good personally. What works for me, this might not work for everyone else. I'm not suggesting this for everyone, but for me, goal setting is a big part of, of of my life and my journey and so I think having a thing that you're working towards while maybe you never have to actually get there, right? There's so many other doors. I think what I've been doing is just looking at these different opportunities that are in front of me. So even when, um, you know, I accepted the position to run this company. There were other offers that I had to come on with other companies. This is not the only one that I had. Um, this is the one that I think I was really excited about and I'm still really excited about. Well, good. Well, good. It's been eight months, nine months, no, 10 months now. Yeah. Almost. Yeah. Um, what's been Just like you hoped and what's been way different than you hoped in terms of, you know, kind of ground floor Building a team building an enterprise. Sure Yeah, that's a that's a great question. So Let's see. What's been exactly like I hoped and what hasn't been what I'll say is exactly, like I hoped is is building a company where we really care about People, and we really are prioritizing some of that relational aspect to everything that we do from being mindful of the customers that we want to work with and being mindful of, you know, the, the people that we hire and, and, you know, we're actually, we want to, we want to create something that's going to last and going to be efficient and effective and scalable. And so that has been going. Exactly as I hoped, hiring has been a little bit slower as we're, we're, you know, being mindful and intentional. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I'm hiring for a position right now and they're like, what's your timeline? I'm like, when we find the right one, you know, it could be 20 days. It could be 60 days. And I'm not, or 90. I don't know. I'm not gonna like reach for the wrong person. Right. Finding the right fit. It's pretty important, especially when your company is small. Every, every person makes a big impact, right? Yeah, yeah. So, um, and so, you know, in some ways, That's, that's been as I expected, um, I think we're dealing with some of the challenges of trying to build out the company and the logistics of having our space built the way that we need it so that we can get moving. And so there are some of those aspects that are, are just a bit challenging. Those kind of things that would be, uh, operations manager kind of level stuff to deal with if you had that personality. You know, and it's, well, it's. Part of this, actually, it's a little bit bigger than that. It kind of falls outside a little bit, um, because some of the challenges we've been having is trying to find space and people who understand what we're doing and the scale at which we're at, and, and It's a bit risky, right? Oh yeah, it's a bit risky. And so we need the right partners and the right people as part of that. And so grateful that we came across the Forge Campus in Loveland. It's the old HP building. Seems like kind of for what I mean, both ways. Right? I think so. What they want in there and what you need. I would agree. Pretty well aligned. I think we align with a lot of the other technologies that are in that space and it's just a great opportunity for us. Um, and so anyway, if anyone's interested in that, that's... Yeah, check it out. Yeah, that's... Forge. com. Not Forge. com. I don't know their website is, great space. Yeah, the Forge campus is great and, and they, they seem to get it a little bit more. That's been a bit of a challenge. Um, the other part that I will say that's been a bit of a... just a surprise, um, is, is how well received, um, this would be. You know, that's always the scary part is, is, you know, we've got something we believe in. Now does, does everyone else feel the same way? Right. We have to take, taking something new to the market is, is it's a bit of an uphill battle sometimes. Right. Right. And so are people really going to see the value? Are we going to get the customers that we need? And I've been really. Um, and so I'm excited about the opportunities that are, are happening for us. You don't have to tell this like long story about why this is actually good. People get it pretty quick. Yeah. The communities around you. Well, that, that video that you showed in your presentation with the, the spring curing, like with the, I call it the flame front, like right behind the output thing. And then just being a useful spring right after, I was just like, so amazing how knowing It's pretty unique, so if anyone didn't get that or I didn't clearly articulate it earlier, I'm just trying to put the video link in here or something. Yeah, totally. So, so the way the The resin that we're commercializing works is it does something called frontal polymerization. So what happens is once you initiate what's called the cure front, so you just need enough heat for that front to start the cure itself will then propagate through the material without the need for continued heating. Yeah. So like a, like a flame front. Like, yes. Like a forest fire. Yes. Like, absolutely goes right across the thing. Yes. It's been, yeah, like a wave or a title. It just kind of comes through and, and it's neat because you can watch it You can see it Yeah. So we have some videos and they're, they're pretty neat. And, um, ultimate, yeah, you could probably find'em on, on rapid cure solutions.com or whatever. That's correct. Yeah. Yep. Um, let's call a short break. Okay. And then we'll come right back and finish up this conversation. Sounds good. uh, faith, family, politics. We've, uh, we've actually drifted a little bit into family and faith politics already. Uh, but where would you start and what would you say? Any of those. Oh, man. Um, yeah, so. Faith, family, and politics. I think if it's not clear enough, if you listen through this, um, I think just in general, how we treat people is, is very important. That's your faith, is treat people well. Yeah, you know, I think that says a lot, and I think it's a common, uh, thread that you're going to see in any religion, you know? Sure. And so, I think what's really important here is that we embody and practice the things that We say are important to us. Hmm. So, yeah, you know, there's I've I grew up kind of more in the Christian faith And we did I did. Okay, and I've been exposed to a lot of different religions I took an opportunity in college to work through an experience Um, on Asian religions, took a course in that, and that was very eye opening. Strongly encourage, if you can take African religions or Asian religions, or just get out of your bubble. You know, take an opportunity to learn about other people and other things. And so, I think for me... The wisdom books, generally, all have a fair bit of resonance, is one of my observations. Like the things on humans. I'm not sure what to do to behave like. Totally. Don't have that much, uh, deviation. They really don't. You know, love one another, Jesus said. I know. It's, you know, there's a lot of those common themes. I think there's a lot of really interesting threads in Buddhism, um, that really helps you be mindful when it comes to understanding empathy and suffering and that. Sure. Everyone is suffering. Your threshold for pain is relative to the pain you've experienced in your life. And that's not always fair, but that's kind of how it works. Um, so there's, there's some very interesting ways I think The book of Job has a lot to say about the same topic. I think we can learn, I think we can learn a lot through religion. Yeah. Um, I'm You know, so I'll just leave it at that, and I think there's a lot of room. You haven't really re engaged in a specific faith journey in your adult life, is that fair? I've tried. I mean, I've come in and out a little bit. Organized religion has been a bit of a challenge to find the right fit for me. Yeah. So, um, I think what's important, what I would, what I think is great is take the opportunity to learn. A little bit about all of it. I don't think it has to be exclusive. I know that goes against some of I, I genuinely think that, that we can all be a little better by just opening our minds and our hearts, um, to really what's, what's out there. And maybe that's, maybe I get that from growing up in the Methodist church. So I grew up, um, Open mind, open heart, open doors was a, I don't know if that's still their slogan, but that was a big part of it. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. And, um, I again had a wonderful small church that's evolved since then, but, um, They're terrible now. Well, I'm sorry. No, they've just, they've just had some big transitions. And so I don't know if I even know anyone that still goes there. Right. So, so that's kind of the, Was that here or this is that in Baltimore? This is a small church on the Hill in Baltimore. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and. And it was a great experience. But ultimately, I do think this open heart, open mind, open doors is something that I'm sure they're not the only ones that use that slogan. So I'm sorry, I'm not trying to infringe on anyone. But I think those are really important aspects. And so, yeah. Politics or family, do you prefer? Yeah, um, why not both? So let's, politics very quickly. I'll try and go quickly. Sure. So one thing about politics that I'll say is that, um, it's very rare that anyone is truly extreme on politics. True. So it's another area where I think that, for me, the guiding light is, How do we create a society where everyone feels valued as a human, as they should, feels that they have the privilege and the right to live as a human, and recognize that we were not all born into the same level of privilege? And that we all deserve a seat at the table, and there are times, wisely told to me, we might deserve that seat, we don't always deserve the microphone. And so, you know, I think really we'd all benefit a little bit with a little bit more empathy and understanding. And ultimately, I, you know, there's a lot in politics that's driven for different reasons. Um, like you, you talked about the Ben Carson scholarship and other people that have influenced you and things. And I, I've mostly heard about private opportunities that were opened up, not necessarily government sponsored opportunities. Sure. And so I guess that would be my question is, is government the tool to provide opportunities for people? Or is it better for private society to open up opportunities for people that maybe don't have the same. Privilege and opportunity. Yeah. I, I think again, I would cast a bit of a wide net here. And I think it's a little bit of A, a little bit of B. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that it's black and white. I think that most of the world is mostly gray. And so I think there are benefits and drawbacks to both. Yeah. Right. And I think there is space for both. It doesn't necessarily not, we have this interesting capitalist society that we live in where we constantly have to get better. We constantly have to grow. We constantly have to, you know, have more money and more money and more money. And when is it okay just to be sustainable? Totally. You know, when is it okay just to have, Hey, we have a sustainable business model and that's cool. I was talking about, uh, the notion, it's an old Reagan quote, actually, you know, tax what you want less of and subsidize what you want more of. And how that just doesn't really work with an income tax. Like, we don't want less income. Like, we actually want more income, but what we do want is less consumption. Uh, there's an organization called FairTax. org that I've followed for quite a few years and it's effectively a, uh, tiered and subsidized to avoid being, uh, regressive. Uh, consumption tax because that is what we want less of, frankly, is consumption, like especially unnecessary consumption. You know, the, the climate activists that fly their airplanes 117 times a year to private airports like that. Those don't. Those don't correlate. Like it isn't, you're consuming the snot, you know? Absolute. Absolutely. Just'cause you got a message you wanna share. Absolutely. And you know, and, and one thing to recognize is like a step in the right direction is an incremental step is still a step in the right direction. Yeah. I do firmly believe that if we took a lot of incremental steps, we get really freaking far, you know? And so there is this side of, of progress is progress even when it's small. And so at any rate, I think when it comes to politics, progress, not perfection. You know, do not let perfection be the enemy of excellence. Yeah, yeah. You know, sometimes we're always looking for the best thing. It's gotta be the best, it's gotta be perfect. The, uh, Libertarian Party has a, uh, side slogan called, uh, Better Not Perfect. Yeah, I like that. You know, I think there is, there's a lot of value in, uh, In most parties, and I think, um, in, in different snibbets, so anyone who really strongly needs to know, you know, I'm not necessarily affiliated with one party or another. Seems likely. And, you know, it's difficult for me because I, I do align in some ways with some parties and a little less with other parties. Um, topics. You're a closet libertarian, and it's fine. I'm, you know, I'm not. But you would like to see the government used a little more effectively to make good things happen for people than what libertarians would want. You know, I'm not the strongest when it comes to libertarians either. Because I actually do think there are times where policy can be super impactful. Surely. Yeah. Uh, especially when... Usually for the detriment of the... problem they're trying to fix, but not always. Well, I think the intention is good. Sometimes the practice is not always correct. No, the intention is always good. the more they fucks it up in some people's opinion. In certain instances that can happen. Yes. Um, like for instance, I've seen even in the recycling space, I still like to say progress is winning. Um, but there are certain situations where, um, what we're measuring or what we're using as the metric. Right. It's not what we should be prioritizing, so anyway. I mean, Denver was spending almost 100, 000 per homeless person for a while, and San Francisco too. Yeah. Like, if we can't subsidize that industry to that extent, it's not sustainable. And so, so then the question becomes, what can we do? How can we still make progress? What does that look like? Um, and, and again, I'm not going to pretend to have all the answers. It's so complex. On your little small part and create some good jobs. You know, and that's what our focus is. Our focus right now is on, you asked this earlier. I don't know if we perfectly answered it, but when it comes to, you know, where we're at today, We are trying to build a company. I am trying to stay in Colorado. I want to build a company here that brings these opportunities in advanced manufacturing and for chemists and scientists to come work together to create something really awesome here in the state of Colorado. So, yeah, go online. There's a jobs board there. Yeah, please. Uh, family. Family. Uh, you are... Single gal? Unattached? You got a boyfriend? Oh, yeah. We talked about your folks and your brother's sisters a little bit. You know, my main core family, um, I have a dog. I'm a classic millennial. Um, elder millennial, albeit. Fair. Um, but, uh, she is a purebred mutt. Okay. Yeah, the fanciest. Do you have some ideas? What's, what's her characteristics most like? Oh yeah, so I lived, uh, for 12 years. I thought she was a Basenji mixed with a boxer. You can Google it. Awesome. And, uh, I found out after finally having a DNA test done that she is somewhere between 2 percent and about 20 percent every single dog breed you So she is truly a purebred mutt. They turn back into kind of the base dog, uh, over time. Yeah. I mean, I've had her now for 13 years and she still just, she just works, man. She can hike. She can play. She's definitely slowing down. Do you have a one word description for your dog baby? We usually ask people for one word descriptions of their children, but you don't have any yet, so. One word description of my dog baby. You're just, you're just your dog. baby. I know, there's, there's so many words that I could use right now floating through my brain. Um, I think the, the best one would, would probably be, um, This is probably not great, but D. Va, uh. She'll listen to this and be all upset for a while. I know, um, but, but no, she, she, uh, she's great. She's become a bit of a princess in her older, older years. Yeah, so, so my dog is, is core to my heart. And then, you know, I'm very, very fortunate. I do want to mention, I have to throw this out there. I just have an absolutely amazing, first of all, my parents are phenomenal. I've been so supportive. Do you want to shout them out at all? Yeah, well, they're... We'll see. They're not really big technical people, but, uh, Rose Rubin and Glenn Rubin, those are my parents. You can text them a link to this. They'll be excited. Okay, they'll be excited. If they can play it. and so hardworking, um, and she actually works in, in QC for, um, In, uh, uh, composites. So, yeah, we have this very interesting connection that we can kind of talk about. So, I don't know how much I'm allowed to say about, um, her career. Cause it, uh, it's very interesting. She works in electronics. I think I can say she works for Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab now. And, uh, man, she's just, she's awesome. And then, uh, my dad, um, man, he's just a huge supporter of me and what I'm about, what I'm doing. I'm sure he's so proud. Oh man, he's such and he's such like a just a good guy. He's such a good guy, and yeah, I'm just really grateful for those relationships, but then I also want to say that in Colorado, staying here as a scientist, there's not as much of a, at least initially, not as much of a community here as like what you would think of when, it's growing and it's grown exponentially since I moved here, but you think about the New England area. Think about. San Francisco, there's, uh, in California, there's a lot of growth happening in Colorado, but I'm very privileged to have met a core group of people during my time at Colorado State University. Um, we do have a tagline for our friend group, I won't throw it out there, but it's eventually, it's ultimately, it's my family away from family. And these The family you choose. The family you choose and I'm so grateful some really brilliant people as a part of that group. So anyway, I think that's my I really only have like one other scientist friend, but he's one of my best friends and So maybe I'll invite you to have a cup of coffee with me and Matt sometime and talk sciencey stuff. You know, yeah I'd love it. We can also talk not sciencey Science y stuff. So, like, one of my favorite things about my friend group is we've had, um, you know, a, a newer addition to the group one day, and we're all sitting around hanging out and just looking at the stars, talking about things. We, we also just went to the desert to watch the eclipse this weekend. Super cool. It was cool. Uh, if it's very cool. Well, I wouldn't go to the desert, but whatever. Uh, should I go to the desert? Yeah. Anyway. Uh, besides the point, but, um, ultimately we're all sitting there just chatting about, I don't even know what we're chatting about. I gotta look. But, anyway, what, what we ended up They wanted four dollars for the special sunglasses at Ace. Well, you can use them at the next Eclipse, you know, they, they, it's a gift if you keep giving them. Sorry, you're up. Tell me about your weekend at the desert. No, you're fine. I'm not, but what, but what I will go into is, is we're all hanging out, we're looking at the sky one night. What? Just. Hanging out outside, and um, a friend, a newer addition to the group says, You know what? Hanging out with you guys is kind of like watching Seinfeld, but with nerds. So more like that, that other show with all the nerds in it. No, because we're not kind of as bad as, as Big Bang Theory. Yeah, you're cooler than that. Yeah, we're cooler than that. It's like Seinfelds and friends. Yeah. Because they're pretty cool. And then the nerdy one. And then the nerdy one. Yeah. It's like a, it's like a nerd flavor because we bring a little bit of nerd to every conversation. But we're not always talking about science. Yeah. But everything in the world has some relationship to overthinking and thinking about it from For sure. How it works. Anyway. So. I like it. Yeah. Um. Have you figured out what your loco experience might be? I think so. Okay. I think so. Let's hear it. Yeah, so, um, I hope I don't get in trouble for this one. That's probably how a lot of these start, right? Um, this one's not that wild, um, but it's, it was really exciting for me. So, um, I took this opportunity with the company in January. Okay. I had already had a trip planned early February. Okay. To go to, um, Chamonix and Zermatt and uh, ski and snowboard with a group of my Friends slash chosen family and it was Chaminade. Yeah, so Okay, yeah, so this was a year this was our Europe trip, okay, right and a lot of us have been dreaming of this and We had been watching for tickets for a long time All right, and I sacrificed some other decisions so that way I could go on the strip, right? This was I think there were 13 of us all together on this trip and It ended up being just an absolutely remarkable trip at a critical point with the company too, right? So, I was skiing during the day and then every evening I was working. I was, there was one day, okay, but the most exciting one I want to give is that We had, um, decided that we wanted to ski, and I'm probably butchering these names, so to people who are French, I apologize, my French is terrible. Yeah. Um, uh, but we wanted to do the Vallée Blanche, which is skiing a glacier. Okay. And you get a guide, and so then we had, we had too many people to do one group, so we had split it up into two people, two groups. Two different days and ultimately on the first day we, uh, the group had went and there was a close call with someone, um, potentially getting very close and, and almost falling into one of the crevasses. And so it can be very dangerous. And with the receding of the glaciers and what's been going on right now with climate change, um, it's pretty wild. And at that point last year, they were having a pretty bad snow season, so the crevasses were really bad. And the day before we went, not only did the other part of the group have this scare, but they also, um, it reported that a couple of people had died, um, skiing the volley Blanche. So here we had a decision to make the very next day and I'm pitching my company that night. Um, and here we had this really critical decision that we had to make. Do we do it? So we had decided, well, let's go up the Guia de Midi. I probably butchered that too. Aguidimidi. Anyway, you take this tram up to the top and it's magnificent. And you get up there and it's just massive glacier mountains all around you. Right. And you can see these massive crevasses and you're like. And are you like a premier skier? Are you a pretty handy? I was. Uh, one of two snowboarders on the trip. Oh, okay. Yep. Which is not, it's not generally encouraged for snowboarders, but, you know. Just because of the control aspect isn't quite as good stuff? Yeah. There's, there's certain areas where there's, there's a couple areas we have to cross over. You can't move very well. And so you have to go down and then back up. And some of those areas are snow bridges. Yeah. And the thing that's super important is when you get into those spots, you cannot unclip. That's where people get into hurt, into trouble. That's usually where they fall through. That's where people really mess up. You get one boot out, and then you go right through. And you go right through. So they warn you beforehand. And then you drop 40 feet to the ice below. Well, you wear a harness all the time so that they can get you out if they have to. Right. Yeah, that's great. And you try to, you try to be able to, you're wearing a beacon, you, you, you can turn quickly to try and lock yourself in so that hopefully they can still get to you before you fall to your death. Um, and so, you know, there was this, um, really, right, like our adrenaline is top notch and you start off, we were, starts off, we get to the bridge. And one, one of the skiers that's with us, he had his, his gear sitting up on the bridge and he dropped a ski pole and actually kicked it off the bridge. So here we go. First guy doesn't have a ski pole. We're all nervous. We're just like, Oh my gosh, are we going to do this? We did it. We rigged up, we lock in, we get our beacons, we're all rigged together, we're all tied together. Because you start with this really steep arrette that you hike down. Okay. I've got my snowboard on my back. Right. We're hiking down, and uh, we get down there, uh, we get to the first base and we're just like, Yes! Let's do this! Um, you know, and then there are a couple moments that were a little scary, where you get really close. So like, there's this one bridge that we go to go on, and there's Are you following a path? There's other people in front of you? We have a guide. Sorry, we paid, we paid, yes. So it's very, it's strongly advised to have a guide. Right. The guides know better the terrain, so they can predict where there are crevasses and things like that. And so ultimately we're following our guide. But they do move around a little bit. And they're on skis and they've been doing this like all the time. So there's like, and we have a very strong group of skiers and snowboarders. I would not have attempted this if I didn't feel very good about it. Um, but yeah, there was one point, there was one point where, um, I started going up, and I knew it was like pretty strong uphill to on a snowboard. So you have to drop in and then make it up. And I made it about three quarters of the way, and sure enough I started sliding back down. And everything is going through my mind. There is a crevasse on my right hand side, there is a crevasse on my left hand side, and I am sliding backwards. And I, I actually had my poles out at this point, because going through that, I knew... So you got this decision tree, right? Right. What do I do? I can't fall over, I cannot sit down, or I'm done. And so at this point, um, I just, you know, the key was like not to panic. I let myself slide back until I stopped, and then I was like, okay, I'm on a bridge. I have to move. I have to move now. So, um, the people who had gone ahead of me were far enough ahead they couldn't really help. And I just started working. So, um, How you climbed? So I climbed with, with my sticks. An uphill, like, 20 degree... Or poles, sorry. Call them ski sticks. Anyway, poles. Yeah, so it was a pretty steep uphill. I got as far as I could until a friend of mine on skis, uh, one came up behind me. to block the crevasse, in case I did fall over. At least there was someone there. That's a little scary, because now we have two people on a snow bridge. And then, um, at that point, one of the skiers made their way back, and, um, I could use one of my poles. I could use one of my poles and use the other one to kind of jump up, but I could not get out of my board. Right. Because if I tried to step out of my board, I would have, you know, fallen through. Falling through the bridge. Yes. So anyway, we get through. Okay. It's this phenomenal day. Our whole group gets through safely. We had an amazing time out there, um, and then, you know, icing on the cake was just had this phenomenal day. We went out and had an awesome dinner and then that night, sure enough, I was like pitching the company. Right. And, you know, from Europe, and it was just, after having this day of like, whoa. Weren't you exhausted already though? Yeah, of course. Or were you just amped up? Well, I think. Both. I think a little bit of A, a little bit of B. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, that was pretty crazy. That was pretty exciting. And really glad that I lived to tell that story. Yeah. Um, really cool. I don't know how many more years. So are your investors. Uh, really glad that you lived through that. Yeah, I'm sure. They still, they still are not aware fully of that story. Well, here they are. They're gonna listen to this, you know. They knew I was in Europe, but, um, anyway. Some details. Yeah, yeah. Oh, your intentions were always good. Yeah. Um, I know we're just a few minutes over time, so I'm going to let you go, but if people want to learn about your technology, look up RapiCure, connect with you on LinkedIn, do you want to give them what they need? Yeah, absolutely. Please. I welcome people to reach out if there's ways just even to get to know me. Um, love to find ways to help support other businesses, and... Especially if you're a scientist type. I mean, you know what? There are so many things. I love giving people opportunities. I love creating opportunities for diverse candidates. People, like I mentioned, that have diverse backgrounds. I think that we need those different perspectives to be really effective and efficient and create. So, anyway, if you want to reach out to me, uh, my name is Heather Rubin, um, you can find me on LinkedIn, just search my name, it should pop up, RapiCare Solutions, the name of the company. Uh, if you go to rapicaresolutions. com, that is our website. If you submit through there, things will funnel to me. Um, yeah, so, um, look forward to it. Well, thank you for spending some time with the Loco Experience and, uh, glad to have you doing all this cool stuff in Northern Colorado, it's great. Yeah, I appreciate it. I appreciate the opportunity. This was really great. Enjoyed the conversation. Um, thanks for digging in to converse to topics that not everyone is comfortable digging into. I think it's