EXPERIENCE 119 | The Power of Ping Pong with Antonio Barbera, Founder and CEO of Table Tennis Connections

Antonio Barbera is the founder and CEO E O of Table Tennis Connections, a 5 0 1 nonprofit organization that builds community and empowers neurodevelopment through table tennis. A k a ping pong. Dr. Barbera has developed the neurop pong system to, for all and even reverse the effects of neurodegenerative diseases such as multiple sclerosis. Parkinson's and cognitive impairment, and it's highly effective in supporting youth with attention deficit hyperactive disorder, AKA. A D H D. Yours truly. Uh, Dr. Bara began his medical career in Italy, was a leading edge gynecologist in Europe and the US for over 30 years. He's invented new techniques, written numerous papers, and supported the delivery of more than 4,500 babies. He was forced into retirement by the effects of multiple sclerosis in 2017. In this episode, Antonio recounts a very dramatic and successful delivery, which was to be his last. His MS symptoms returned rapidly, which ultimately ended his career. A rollercoaster of emotional and financial and physical challenges followed along with the discovery of the beneficial effects of new neural growth, such as can occur through bilateral activities like table tennis. Today, Dr. Barra is healthy and spry and took it easy on me in winning by a comfortable margin in our ping pong matches. This is a wonderful conversation with an amazingly interesting and thoughtful man early in the second chapter of his career as founder of a high impact nonprofit table tennis connections. Welcome back to the Local Experience Podcast. I'm honored today to be joined by Antonio Bara. And Antonio is the founder of Table Tennis Connections here in Fort Collins. And that's a 5 0 1 And I think it's best if I just let him share what he's up to. So can you just give us a good overview and we'll get into the story of how this passion developed for you. But what is Table Tennis Connections doing right now in the region? Well, thank you for having me today and this afternoon and thank you also for your invitation. So, table Tennis Connections was born almost two years ago, uh, from my deep desire of being able to provide some service to other people that surround me. Okay. The reason being that, uh, few years ago I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. Mm-hmm. And, um, after two exacerbation, after two attacks, I was forced to leave my job. There was, uh, practicing medicine as a gynecologist here in Fort Collins. Mm-hmm. Uh, the most discomfort that I have from my multiple sclerosis, a sensation of chest compression that is with me 24 hours a day. Uh, People all over the world and physicians and other people with disco conditions call that Ms. Hug. Mm-hmm. It's a sensation of a hug of a tightening. Mm-hmm. But, uh, people experience that few minutes a day here and there in your belly, in your chest for me is a 24 hours a day sensation and sometimes it becomes really uncomfortable. It's really like as a constriction. This is with you now. Well, this will mean now really on the left side of my chest, right here in front. So throughout the day it goes from left to right, right to left front to back. Um, change constantly location. And I feel that it's there with me. It just keeps hold. Your, it keeps me though always on my upper portion, yes. On my chest. And, uh, just before Covid, uh, I was playing a little bit of ping pong in my garage. I know that you are, uh, fanatic about this. Well, you beat me soundly in our first, I only beat you once. I'm looking forward to the remax. Very good. And, uh, I start feeling a weird sensation in my body and I had no idea what it was. So I kept playing for three or four more days. And at that point I realized that the sensation was, leave me alone. Well, the way I described the sensation, the hug was, the hug was gone. Well, the way I describe it is like this elephant is constantly sitting on my chest. And when I was playing, I was feeling this interesting sensation that this elephant was leave me alone. Hmm. And was just sitting on a chair right there on the corner, say, wow. That's interesting. Yeah. So I said, well, can this activity be useful for other people with the same condition? And I start searching and I start searching. And I learned this fascinating, uh, knowledge that was acquired in the medicine fields several years ago that is called neurogenesis. And neuroplasticity means what if your brain is stimulated enough? It's challenged enough, it's able to produce new cells. That's the term neurogenesis. And if you continue to stimulate your brain, this cell cells will differentiate in whatever your brain need. Hmm. So this is called neuroplasticity? Yeah, yeah. Creation of a new network of nerves, of impulse, of signals that will allow you to. Perform the specific activity that you are doing. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like if you run, your body kind of develops the muscles that you need to run. If you challenge your brain in that same kind of way, it'll develop new cells to To cover what you have given it to do as a task. Correct. The interesting thing is that your brain needs daily new task. Mm. So every time that we fall back in something that is the same monotone, that is well-known to our brain, well, our brain says, oh, I already know this. Yeah. I don't need to produce. It's like driving somewhere. You don't even think something that is, you don't even think So. It's the constant stimulation. It's the constant challenge that will stimulate your brain. So like Sodoku or whatever, puzzles or games or things. Yeah. You know, crosswords, generally speaking, they go back on your old memories. Mm-hmm. On your old, our wires, you've already understood, you already understood. You memorize them somewhere. Mm-hmm. So your brain will work just on that portion of its function. That is the memory, the old memory. Mm-hmm. But nothing is stimulating anymore. Right. So even with like math pu math puzzles, like Sudoku or something, it's still just math. It's more like playing hide and seek with the math. Correct. That you already know. Correct. So nowadays people realize that there are few things that stimulate your brain in a very positive way. A new instrument, a new language, a social life, new friends, new physical activity. I dunno if I said the word already new. Right. I did. So that is the novelty that was acquired, uh, almost, I think 15 years ago. If you stimulate your brain with something new, Your brain will stay active. Your brain is more alive than what we taught. Hmm. Now we generally use probably nine, 10% of our brain capabilities. So we need to stimulate our brain. Right. And that's what I try to do every day. Through table tennis connections as well. As well, yes. Oh, just in general as well? In general, yes. Yes. And how about things like reading and coming to learn new things and stuff like that? Reading is good. Reading is good because, uh, uh, you, uh, learn more words. Your eyes, your vision is stimulated as well. Your processing is stimulated as well. Yeah. Even your own thinking, your thinking. And so anything that stimulates you, your brain. It's very important. Yeah. Yeah. Just sitting on your couch with your remote control, it will just move one little finger. Yeah. And, uh, you are must frying your brain unless you engage in a more active way. Well, I think we talked about that. Uh, we traded book recommendations and mine was like the brain, I think it's David Engel or something like that. And like the big overarching theory was kind of garbage in, garbage out as well. Like if all you do is take in TV and stuff, or even worse if you're watching porn or doing things that actively make. Your brain route, new channels, but to garbage. Like it's gonna be harder for you to stay out of those ruts. Correct. Because now you're get in those circuits, you're getting this attitude, you get in those, uh, behavior. Mm-hmm. Indeed. So, um, so who, I guess that you started, did you start right off the bat as a, as a nonprofit or have you recently begotten your nonprofit certifications? I mean, uh, well I became a nonprofit in July of 2021. Okay. And, uh, but if you don't mind, I would like to tell our listeners a little bit more about what multiple SC is. Okay. Yeah. Um, well we are surround by many cables here in our studio and, uh, our cables are safe because, uh, they have a protective layer. Of rubber and plastic that protects us. Mm-hmm. From any electrical shock, that is the way our nerves are built. Mm-hmm. So our nerves are protected by this sheet that is made by the specific substance that is called my mm-hmm. That helps us to send the signal at the right speed. Yeah. In the right place without zapping all the muscles around it and stuff in a very specific way. So it's protecting us to be very specific, very efficient in the terms of conduction of our stimulus to our muscle. For example, I think of it a lot like fiber optics, almost like, it's like one little tube that goes there. He indeed like the, the, the major electrical panel in your garage. Hmm. So think about that. So here we are, and I'm moving my right arm and you're moving your left leg. You are doing that because a part of your brain is saying that. Hmm. So the camera was recording, wasn't it? As far as I, no, I remember that. We should take a quick Why don't we do that? So, so these, these tubes, well, these electrical wires, they bring a signal to our, anything that we do in our body. Yeah. The way we move, the way we think, the way we engage with each other. Every single thing happens because there is an electrical signal that goes somewhere coming from somewhere else. And this electrical signal needs to move at a specific speed and being protected. Mm-hmm. And selective. And this is happens thanks to this protection that each nerve has of this sheet made by this specific substance. It's called my, now in people like me, this smiling is destroyed. So there are portion throughout. So a protein that gets attacked somehow or something? Well, it is a layer is a fat layer that is attacked by ourself. Hmm. So it's considered to happen because we. Placing, enact this destruction, physical destruction, biological destruction of this layer and our why. Blood cells do that. Mm-hmm. Now we do not know why our blood cells do that. Yeah. But that's what happens. So it's an, it's an autoimmune disease. It's an autoimmune. Is is the, the, the mechanism is an autoimmune right now, u stimulates that we have absolutely no idea. Fair. So, uh, there are people like me that were able to recover from the attack and people that, uh, are not able to. Yeah. And so, frankly, I don't know why I am so lucky compared to many other people. I was able to recover my right leg that was lost for two months. And, uh, I was also able to recover my left arm that was gone for nine months. Nobody, of course, was able to tell me, okay, Antonio, you, you're gonna be able to recover that. There's no PT or anything. There was nothing really, I was doing pt, I was doing hand therapy, uh, and as well, and treatment. But, um, I was always looking at this limb of mind, like something that didn't belong to me. I had no sensation, no motion control, nothing. So what was that like? You just hung there? Kind of, it was like the cop sitting on our desk right now. Oh wow. Was not mine. It was moving whenever he wanted. I wasn't feeling anything. I was bumping everywhere. I was having cats here and there. No cold, no hot sensation, nothing. Wow. So I was putting this, when I was driving, I was putting this under my leg to avoid any weird movement. And, uh, I had all my clothes with, without any tie, without any belt, without any lace in my shoes. I was putting this hand in one on my pocket. Yeah. Otherwise it would move anarch and I was offensive sometimes. Could you do things like button your shirt? No, no, no. I couldn't do anything. Really. Yeah. It was interesting. I remember one day I was, uh, at the, at the restaurant in the morning, at lunchtime and there was a short, very small corridor. I was waiting for my food and it was a lady passing by and my hand just moved and touched her and I felt so, Embarrassed. I, I looked at airway really asking for an apology. Asking for an apology, but I didn't say anything. I didn't have the courage to say, I'm sorry, I, I just was already in my face. I couldn't control this thing was interesting. That sounds like an excuse. Oh, well, no, no, you're married guy. So, So that's the, and I've heard that in Colorado here, that, that there's more MS than there is in a lot of places. And there's theories about it being related to sunlight or elevation or air quality. There are many theories about that. There is definitely, uh, uh, one of the highest population of people living with MS in Colorado compared to other states. And uh, uh, and people say, okay, the farthest you are from the equator, they hire the incidence of multiple sclerosis. Uh, but there is really nothing scientifically proven about them. Mm-hmm. Okay. But we do have one of the highest incidents. So, Cime, when is this that you were going through, you know, the loss of your leg function and arm? So it was five years ago. I was 55. The first attack was in 2016. Okay. I was just having people over my house and I start feeling something weird on my leg. Like if somebody was pouring boiling oil on my hip. Oh my, oh my. Yes. And so it was a night when I had some Italian friends over and we were playing, uh, Italian, uh, songs and singing. And a certain point I told my partner, Gail, I'm sorry. I need to stay away because I'm having pain. And she said, what are you talking about? Yes, I'm having this pain on my hip. And, uh, a physical therapist friend of mine was, uh, there with us and she told me, okay, Antonio, let me see what I can do. And, but I say, listen, nothing is happening. I mean, really I can move. My mobility is there is this pouring, boil is coming, uh, uh, oil that is coming from my hip down to my leg. Oh. So I tried to take a hot shower, cold shower, nothing worked until finally after almost two hours, this oil just went away from my, the tip of my toes. Hmm. Wow. And I said, what's going on? Uh, I dunno. And so two days later I woke up. Abruptly because the same oil was now my ran knee. Hmm. He woke me up and I started screaming and crying from the pain. Hmm. It happened again the following day. And at that point I spoke with a neurosurgeon and they decided, okay, why don't we do some imaging of, of your lower back? Well, nothing was there. And since nothing was there, we put attention to the central brain to whatever you call the central nervous system. And uh, my brain was like a Christmas tree. So if we do an imaging of your brain and my, oh, yours, uh, there's a gray and white color now on top of the gray. Imagine if you put so many other sparkling area very bright and wide. Okay. They're lighting up. Those are called plaques. And those are the areas where these lesions. Mm. Are kind of letting the electricity out of the sheaths? No, no, no. It's because it's an inflammation appearance. Mm. And so they look white with a gray background and you can spot them right away. Yeah. And they generally located in the brain, in the optical nerve, in the cervical and thoracic portion. And they found this on you? They found this on my brain. You're thick with it right there on my brain. And, uh, after three days, uh, my right leg was completely gone. Full paralysis. Mm. Zero. I have no control of this wheelchair. Uh, full crutches. You can be crutches, wheelchair, and I was limping, uh, for a week until finally I had no control anymore. Yeah. Wow. Wow. And what does these, did these lesions mean something to the doctors that were scaring you such? Well, the lesions, the size and the location of the lesions sometimes may have a correspondence with the. Clinical symptoms that you may have. Mm-hmm. Of course, if you have clinical, uh, sorry. If you have lesions in your neck, most likely that's what happened. For example, when I lost my left arm, I had new lesions in my, uh, portion in the cervical portion of my spine. Um, but again, you may have many lesions, but they may not be active or you did it look like scar in your brain? Hmm. Of course, the more lesion you have, the more attack you have, uh, the less capability your body has to reproduce. Yeah. The smiling shit that we were talking about. Yeah. Yeah. And so the more inflammation episodes you have, the less your body's able to wake up, get rid of that inflammation and reproduce again, the my And so in your case, you've had two major, uh, inflammation episodes. But been able to limit it at that, which is why you can beat me in ping pong. Correct. Whatever. Correct. Yes. So I was lucky enough, I mean, again, I was pushing myself in the attempt to recover. Yeah. And, uh, uh, and I was doing three times physical therapy two times a week, uh, in therapy. Uh, of course in the meantime I lost my job. I do performance surgery. I mean, I was confused as well, my multiple sclerosis besides expressing itself with something that you may see. Mm-hmm. As a matter of fact, if you look at me, senti, you look normal, if you allow me this word. Yeah. Uh, but it's called the invisible condition. Yeah. So if I don't take a specific medication, I am unable to. Maintain my attention throughout the day. Hmm. So I'm able to stay here with you at this time in the afternoon because I take a medication in the morning and it took me a while to realize, oh my gosh, I'm passing out at two o'clock in the afternoon. I need to sleep, I need to rest. Things were overwhelming me. Uh, I was looking at this key holder and say, oh my gosh, what does he want from me? Really silly things were becoming overwhelming. Yeah. And, uh, uh, I was losing attention. The focus, I was foggy. Yeah. Actually, the fatigue is the, uh, uh, the symptoms that the majority of people experience besides the physical fatigue, the mentally intellectual fatigue. Hmm. They are overwhelmed. Yeah. Little things are too much. Hmm. Interesting. Very interesting. Yes. So, I guess, how does that play out? Like, that was first in 2017. First was in 2016. 16, sorry. Yeah. The leg came back after two or three months and I continued to work. I was very happy. I had the cane for a while and uh, um, at that time I was thinking, oh my gosh, the first time I got back to Europe, I'm gonna start collecting this amazing cane from 1700, 1800 since probably I should continue to use a cane. But guess what? I was lucky enough to drop the cane. Yeah. So forget about my collection of canes, but 11 months and few days into the condition, I had another attack. This is your left arm, then my left arm. So there was a beautiful day that started very beautifully. I was on call. And, uh, uh, I had a beautiful delivery at, uh, just before the shift of anesthesiologist and ending on Saturday morning. And, uh, I had a delivery of twin, uh, babies. Uh, I dunno if you said that. Yeah. I was a gynecologist. Yeah. And I, I actually was thinking proctologist at first, but gynecologist. You delivered babies. I switched. Yeah. I switched from pathology to gynecology. How many babies have you delivered? You know, that's a question that many people ask me often. Yeah. I am in the high 4,000, so around 47, 40 then. Gotcha. Felt just short of the 5,000 class. Yes. Short of the 5,000. Yes. Well, and, uh, so I was on call again in, uh, uh, everybody was waiting for this two baby to arrive. Well, this pregnancy was very unique. And this lady, the, the second baby, mean the baby that was farther up in mom's belly was bridge means, was. His feet were first. Yes. Yeah. And, uh, few people in Colorado like to do breach extraction of twin babies. So this lady came from the, uh, front range, and I told her, well, I consulted with her and I told her, well, I will do all my best to deliver your baby vaginally. And so we delivered the first baby. And now I need to take care of the second baby. So I locked myself within my mind. I closed my eyes and I was feeling the feet of this baby. I grabbed the feet of this baby. I asked the nurse to help me to keep mom stadiums stable, and I was able to do this beautiful, what we call this spin move. Well, yeah, we did a bridge extraction. Oh. So I pulled the baby down. I had to rotate his shoulder. I just was looking inside the pelvis and just visualizing the maneuver I was supposed to do. And it was just beautiful. Nailed it. And everybody in the room was so happy. Mom was happy. The nurse was happy. That was a big success for the entire team. Yeah. We spent the entire night with this lady, so you can imagine I was so happy. I went home, I was walking on the cloud. I was really feeling so happy. And uh, was Saturday afternoon and uh, Saturday afternoon the senior center was having ping pong. Hmm. So at noon I go to play ping pong, and the first time that the ball goes on the ground and I go to pick it up, I realize that my left hand was not grabbing the ball. I was landing trenches from the ball. Hmm. So, whoa, what's going on? So I was finally able to, but you didn't have that boiling pain or anything like that? Nothing. Nothing. So, uh, I finally picked it up and I tossed the ball in the air. I served the ball, went down on the ground again, and the second time I couldn't pick up the ball with my left hand. So I, I couldn't reach the ball. I was looking at the ball. My left hand was unable to reach the ball. The ball, you remember we were talking about? Yeah. The control of each of our movements through this electrical wire, through our nerves. So I pick up the ball with my right hand, I put it on my chest, I grab it. Now with my left hand, I tossed the ball and my left hand goes somewhere, the ball goes somewhere else, and it was 1208. So I was eight minutes in my ping pong Saturday morning and I say, okay, I'm going home. Yeah. Now I was on call that day. Right. And so what I started seeing, my left hand was moving anarch, my middle two fingers were just moving. Yeah. Flexing by themself. Say, oh my gosh, what's going on? I, I didn't wanna say to myself, okay, is this another attack? But I was fearing that. Did you, did you suspect or believe an SL already by then? Like that was the suspected diagnosis? Or was this No, no. I had, I had a clear diagnosis. Okay. You did? Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. And, and I said, no, cannot be positive smoking then. Who knows. So, uh, I went home and I was pretty sad. Uh, and at three o'clock in the afternoon, the ER called me, San Antonio, we may have a case for you. Hmm. Surgical case. I said, wow. So I was looking at my hand, okay, I can do this, I can still move, I can control it. If they call me, I can still do that. Uh, so I tried to reach my partner. She was skiing and I told her, listen, I dunno what's gonna happen with me because I dunno what's happening with my left hand. How far away are you? Oh, I'm four hours away. Ooh, okay, so finally a five. I remember those time very vividly. A five dayer called me and San Antonio, you're free. There's nothing that belongs to you. We are sending the lady home. I said, wow. Thankfully. But 6:40 PM my end was gone. My hand completely disappeared. Hmm. In front of me. Bump still no pain, just two done. And so, uh, in the meantime, uh, my partner came back in town and I said, please take over my call. And that was the last of my s hmm. Day as a physician, I'm sorry, was exactly, oh, thank you. Well, you, you went out on top. You had the, the breach twist. My god. You know, I kept telling myself in the first year at least I finished with this beautiful, beautiful procedure. Man was just beautiful experience. Yeah. And that was it. And so what a, what a trauma. Um, ultimately yes. Um, no notice, obviously, and somebody had to cover your next on call and your next regular shift and all that. Of course, I had to change my life entirely. I mean, I had to change medication. Um, Uh, it was intense. Did you have support, like did you have disability and insurance coverage or did you have I was leave. I, I, I, I was on a short leave, uh, it's called short term disability for a while, for one or two months. But my hospital kept calling me, said, when are you coming back? He said, guys, my hand is not with my hand is not with me. It's not funny. And uh, and I told them, I say, guys, the moment I will be ready to come, I guarantee you I will come back. And they kept telling me, well, we need to test You. Say guys, if I'm coming, you can do any test you want, means I am comfortable and I can do whatever I want. Uh, but you know, the short term disability, the moment is five months and 29 days and 23 hours and 15 nine minutes is over. Yeah. And so I ultimately stopped working. Yeah. Have you, um, really worked since then? No. No. Absolutely not. Not, not as a doctor, not as really anything to speak of. No. On your new passion really only on that. So you had like, that was a, a year earlier. That was in 2017. Well, and plus you had like eight, nine more months of not to recover. Yes, I'm working. Yes. So it was March, 2017 and I don't recall if by Christmas or January of next year, I start finally feeling something in my, in my left hand. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yep. Um, well let's, let's talk more about like what this table tennis connections, like, how, how that idea morphed into what you should do with it A little bit. So I used my own experience and uh, I said, well, if I have some benefits, can I present this to other people with multiple sclerosis? Yeah. And I start searching for that. And I found few information about the benefits of. Table tennis, you can call ping pong as well if you want, but table tennis is better, uh, with people with Parkinson's and dementia. Oh, not so much with ms, but with, not so much with ms. Yeah. And also with, uh, people with attention deficit disorder. Yeah. Like yours truly. Here we go. Probably. But the point was, uh, no. I am a physician and I, uh, over 140 scientific publications. So for me was, okay, what can I do? You are published. Oh yeah. I'm, oh wow. Probably So you were a og, uh, not just a regular baby doctor, but you were No, I was the leading edge. Well, I was for a while, I. PIL of the Italian society of obsessing gynecology. I invented certain things in my field as well. Oh. And uh, well, we'll come back and hear some, we'll come back at that. Yeah, we'll come back at that. So I said, okay, what can I do? So I found few papers, actually one from the Karolinska Institute. Uh, there were only nine people with Parkinson's, and they did a little bit of ping pong with them. Right. Wow. So I said, it's a real expansive study there. So I said, well, you know what, I'm gonna try to do something for other people. Yeah. Now, you know, it took me more than one and a year to recover emotionally from, from Yeah. I was gonna say diagnosis. Yeah. More than just, uh, physical. And they had to do something with my life. Yeah. And so I said, well, I can do something. So I, um, um, decide to fund this, to have this, uh, nonprofit. And, uh, it took me a while to decide the name. Table 10 is connections. Now connections are what is right now between my headphones and the plug. Sure. Connections are between my right and left brain. Between you and me, between me and my limbs. That came back connections between me and the eight years old Sophie that beat me. And my first tournament, uh, connection between me and my oldest player that is 93. Sure. Um, connection between different players of different nations, of different skin color, of different accent. And so it's a human connection. Yeah. So table tennis connections and, um, and so what's interesting because, you know, it took me forever to find a roof in town. I begged anybody in town to gimme a gym. We are hours, uh, weird location, a rental location. Of course, I couldn't afford any rental location. Uh, and I knocked everywhere. Yeah. And eventually, uh, the Boys and Girls Club of Larmer County offered me a roof and I'm so grateful to them. And, uh, that is where our club, uh, portion of the organization is. The headquarters now. Yes, for now, for now. Uh, and then you also do almost like a, a traveling, well, what engagement, what happened was this, I mean, I had to recruit people to offer, uh, uh, this possibility to people with multiple sclerosis, Parkinson and, uh, Alzheimer. And, but these people told me, well, Antonio, those hours are too late for us because we rent in the evening. And so I had to rent a gym in a church on the south portion of town. And, uh, Thanks to that as well. We, um, have a very big number of people with Parkinson, uh, and, uh, we are now offering the, uh, uh, a class also to people with multiple sclerosis. And we were joined two weeks ago by at least 11 people with mild cognitive impairment. Hmm. Very, very nice. Like early stage dimensional, early stage of dimens. They may go into dementia or not. Um, so as I was telling you earlier on, for me, the major goal is to bring science behind the benefits of this sport. Yeah. So, so what have you, what have you discovered in that, on that part? Well, yeah, I created this specific ping pong program that is called Nuon. Okay. Um, and I offer the first initial 12 weeks and I present, uh, With specific exercise, with specific management of the ping boom ball, the paddles, uh, specific technique, uh, specific approach to the game that is based on neuron brain. So if I have a person in front of me with multiple sclerosis, I need to assess and see what the condition is Yeah. In that specific person. Sure. The same thing. What the Parkinson condition is affecting that specific ball. It's not just about levels, it's also, it's not just about the condition, what parts of the body or the correct tremors as a whatever, it's just about you. Yeah. Because each of us, even if we have the same condition, experience that in a completely different way. Totally. Yeah. So not two people are alike, and especially we have, you may have the same lesion in your brain and they express themself in a completely different way. Yeah. And there people. Mine just makes me dance funny. I see you dancing right now. I do dance Funny. I do. You do dance. Very funny. We need to check your nerves. That's my wife. You need to check your nerves. I will do something with that. I've been watching Seinfeld lately. Here we go's a crazy dance. Here we go. Um, so, you know, we probably don't have enough data really to like throw it down, but what can you tell me about what you've seen so far? Cuz you've helped dozens and dozens, maybe hundreds of Well, I am, right now I have full of 70 people. So what's happening is I'm finishing, I have the last four weeks of study, this pilot study in the people experiencing Parkinson's. Okay. And in doing that, I associate myself with a movement disorder center at Ancients Medical Center. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I decided at the beginning, I was a gynecologist. Now I'm learning everything about neurology and I love it. I'm reading as much as I can. Yeah. But I need experts Sure. Around me. Sure. So, I, uh, create a, a establish a, a relationship with the Movement disorder centers for the Parkinson. Mm-hmm. I establish a relationship with a, a multiple Rocky Mountain Multiple Sclerosis Center. Great. And I established another relationship with two amazing scientists that work on Alzheimer. Mm-hmm. So we are finishing the first study on Parkinson. We have last four weeks, and we are gonna go over the data. And, uh, we are starting pretty soon that two studies on people experiencing multiple sclerosis and, uh, mild dementia. You should look into, uh, uh, an organization just won a Better Business Bureau Torch Award that works with the dementia community. Oh. And it's all about relationship and having kind of hope and positivity within the relationship. And, uh, they're a really, a relatively young non-profit as well, but that's already making a ton of impact. So it could be a great strategic partnership. Very nice. I will take this as an enrichment for me. As a matter of fact. I mean, I've been, uh, uh, communicating and working a little bit with another big organization called Dementia Together. Yeah. That's him. That was founded by this amazing lady in Windsor. Yeah. And now we are creating, we are creating, you're already one step ahead of me and, uh, we are creating this, uh, um, collaboration officially. And so people, this lady was really, it's so amazing because really her. Major goal is to educate people about this condition. And she is on the spot. She say, we need to listen to people with the condition. Yeah. So for me, the goal is not just to make sure that your ping pong truck is better than mine. Well, yours will never be better. No. Let's say that obviously. But, uh, uh, not even that you are gonna become a champion, but that you have a benefit, a neurological benefit. Yeah. I also care about your relationship with your partner. Are you sleeping better? Are you eating better? So for me is how are you doing? It's not just how your trainer is doing. Sure. Uh, and, uh, the social impact of this sport is amazing. Now, you were asking me earlier on about data. Well, I'm producing them, but anecdotally, just looking at these people, yeah. These people were unable to bounce the ball in their hand more than twice. Now you should see what they do. The ball never goes on the ground. Never at the beginning with all this. Under balls all over the place now you barely hear sound. Yeah. So they can toss the ball, they can touch the ball with the paddle, they can move, they have a better balance. And guess what? They smile. Mm. And uh, that for me is the Yeah. Most important payoff. I mean, I see their happy, uh, with wet for two hours. Uh, they go home and guess what? They come back again. Yeah. And, uh, it's, it's absolutely beautiful. So what's your vision for this? Like is this something that you wanna build, like sustainable mass here locally and then take it to other places? Or does getting sustainable mean being in lots of different geographic places? Because it's programmatic more than it is, you know, all flowing through Antonio's fingertips. Antonio's shoot is just the, the beginner Antonio awfully, I want to create a a, a legacy. I wanna leave a legacy. So I worked than 4,900, uh, uh, year in four Collins. We have two location. I've been driving to Boulder for one year now, three times a week. And last month we finally acquired new location. Oh, good. And now we are starting again with people in b in Boulder. Uh, I'm finishing some agreement in Denver. Uh, I am, uh, flying next week to two Tucson where I'm in touch with one support group for people with Parkinson, one support group, with people with multiple sclerosis and, uh, uh, a group home neurologist. Hmm. In, at the beginning of June, I'm going to Utah. Where, uh, uh, we are starting a program as well there. Uh, I am in touch with a lady in Oregon, in Portland that is actually finishing a study right now on physical activity in people with multiple sclerosis. So what I, my goal and my dream is to have this neuro. Program. Yeah. In many places as possible in the entire world. Well, in doing this, of course, I cannot do it alone, nor I want to, I have established another relationship with the International Table Tennis Federation Foundation. Oh. And so, um, thanks to them, uh, I'm, I'm working on a book called The Nuong Handbook Oh, sweet. Where I can share my experience with other people. And so we want to make sure that everybody in the world, in the most remote place Yeah. Can have access to, if you read this book, you can do a lot of this stuff. They're gonna publish this book on their website. Yeah. Uh, I'm gonna go all over the place to, uh, teach about this neuro punk. Uh, my next trip is gonna be Italy, uh, where I'm working with a, an institution that takes care of people with Parkinson and. Multiple sclerosis close to Milan. And of course I got in touch with a ping pong club there as well. They are getting certified in Europe pond. Uh, there is a group in Sealy where I'm originally from that is organizing another event in September. Wow. And they invite me for this neuro pond as well. So it's this Nuong project. Yeah. That's the way I call. Well, and to make this a business podcast more than human interest, how do you, how do you monetize it? Like can you license the neuro pong to all these different folks that deliver it? Is there, you know, will you have to continue to develop trainings things? How do you Yeah, from my personal point of view, I, what I will do is train them in this. Mm-hmm. So it's gonna be a certification where you are certified in the neuro to deliver neuro to the deliver neuro pond. Now that, uh, puts together a theoretical knowledge about brain, theoretical knowledge about how we work our brain works and theoretical knowledge, about the specific exercise in ping pong. Yeah. Now, I don't care if you are an amazing ping pong player. If you have no idea how your brain is working, then, then if you are unable to communicate with a person, yeah, I don't care if you're this amazing scientist, if you cannot put a ball on the other side of the net, on the ping pong table. So I like to create this eclectic figure that has some knowledge on ping pong, and that's enough knowledge about these conditions, and they need to continue to maintain their certification now. Uh, where do we find the money for all this? Well, so far, uh, they just came out. We're creating a lot of value. I am creating value, um, but you know, we need demo, monetize it. Well, so far we have been able to survive and let me use the word survive, uh, with some funds, uh, given by some private friends, some friends, and some uh, um, private foundation. Um, the amount has never been enough. So we are always struggling, uh, financially, and that is why, for example, uh, our class are, guess what,$5 for two hours of class And uh, uh, that room on the upside on that, yes. Just I asked them say, would you please help me to pay the rent? Yeah. So this at certain points should become a very sufficient business. It doesn't matter if indeed my goal is to have a social approach or a scientific approach, but. Nothing happens without money in life. Yeah, no, it's true and impossible. You know, I, I, I use that, uh, you know, easy to add a lot of value, sometimes hard to get it back out, but$5 is, is very little. You know, it's, is nothing, you know, how much a, a, a care facility probably costs$10,000 a month. Absolutely. Or something. And, you know, people were telling me, Antonio, you are putting so much effort, physical and emotional with only one person. Well, you know what? That person this moment needs more attention. I'm sorry. Uh, I don't go, I don't see the clock, but, uh, you are absolutely right. Yeah. I, I am really, uh, constantly in search of funds. So I apply for grants, uh, and I ask friends and I, well, I think your funds are right there. Like, if somebody's dropping off their parent for a two hour class of ping pong, that they're going from not being able to bounce a ball or throw it up and catch it to being almost no balls heading the floor. I mean, plumbers are a hundred dollars an hour more.$150 an hour. Right. And so at the, at the very least, it seems to me that it could be a$50 session per person. And now in a, if you'd have 10, 10 guests, so you got even tables, you know, five tables, 10 guests, whatever. So that's, 50 times to 10 is$500. Well, now you can, with$200, you can hire somebody to help you. Absolutely. And then there's margin to Absolutely. You know, create stuff. You know, the organizational cost is, believe it or not, it's ridiculous. Yeah. Uh, I mean, I drove for one year, three times a week to Boulder. Right. During college. Least you need to cover your gas money. No, the gas was what, almost$5 a gallon. Sure. And, uh, nothing happened. Of course, the class at the senior center were free. I never asked for money, but, uh, actually, I just met a gentleman with Parkinson in Boulder, San Antonio. You cannot continue like this. Right. So I say, I am uncomfortable to transfer money. I say, well, let me do that for you. So I'm finally trying to find some help in people that recognize the value. Yeah, I mean if you really go to, uh, I don't know, in any coffee shop and you buy a little bit of coffee with 2% milk and nothing else, and a small cup is right there,$6, right? Uh, don't even think of asking for a SC because the cone itself now is four point something dollars. And uh, if you go to most more famous coffee shop, I mean they even put some puffs of, I dunno what oxygen that is already there in the air. And so it's seven,$9. Yes. Um, yes, in indeed you are right. Ride. So, um, one, I guess one way I would like to encourage is that, If you charge a, a market appropriate price to enough people, then you can give it away to people that really need it and just can't pay for it. Absolutely. So in, in this task, uh, I'm still looking for big donors. Big means people that grasp the idea, grasp the concept, and see the beauty of this, that they have some possibility of helping me. Uh, and actually, uh, thanks to one person you put him in touch with. I have another meeting next week. Okay. And let's see what this person will tell me. Uh, I am really looking for this location where my tables can be there. Yeah. So these, they don't, don't have to always be set up. Oh my gosh. They can be stored there. So you don't have to be trucking things around the trailer. Correct. Correct. It's very painful and it is time consuming and. I get$5 per hour. So to get precise on that, like if you had a location, ideally in Northern Colorado, in Fort Collins, you know, close to where a lot of older people live or have easy access to, and a building that isn't used all the time. There are many places here in Fort Collins. Yeah, there are, there are empty, uh, jeans or private places, or ex club or lounges, bar or something like that. I mean, I will try to maintain them. Yeah. Uh, if you guys gimme a roof, it's really, uh, and a roof is not just on the time. Well, and the thing is, you could have, you could have five locations around Northern Colorado. Easy if you had a place to store the tables and easy stuff, easy and different communities could develop their own easy kind of guests and stuff like that. Easy having a roof that this not on a time machine. I mean, people tell me, okay, you need to be out by three. I should introduce you to the Matthews house. Um, have you connected with them at all yet? No, not yet. They've got a great facility over at the Genesis project, church building and some extra spaces and stuff. It could be that they would find a good partnership and they've, they really serve the, the, the underprivileged community. Um, there's a big trailer park near them and homework helpers for kids and stuff. But I'm sure there's ADHD and things like that. I cannot ask for any better relationship. Yeah. Yes. Again, the, we really wanna be. Very inclusive and very diverse at the same time. Yeah. It's not just about the MS and the Parkinson. No, it's about, I always say, are you a human being? It's good for everybody. I'm gonna ask you the same question to you since you were talking about sci-fi. Are you a human being? Maybe? Pretty sure. Either that or Okay. Okay. Or some kind of computer stimulation. Right. You have a brain. Apparently it's a little bit. Okay. So even a little bit. Do you want to have fun? I do. Okay. So ping pong is good for you. Perfect. Now, it's not gonna be the panacea for every single thing, but let me give you a little bit of science. Uh, one in nine of us will get the dementia. Okay. We have no idea who, wow. Now, uh, since we don't know what dementia is, uh, we have no treatment and the medication out on the market really don't do anything good. Yeah. So scientifically has been pro proven that two things are good for. People with Alzheimer are also mild cognitive impairment. Mm-hmm. They are physical activity. Mm-hmm. And social life, oh my gosh. Uh, think about this. 2.5 grams of ping pong ball and uh, a bunch of people that enjoy doing the same thing. Here you have already the recipe. Perfect physical activity and social life. Plus this ping pong puts together aerobic activity, anaerobic activity, balance, eye stimulation, iron coordination. I think I remember you asking Ola if she had any oxygen for me when we were playing ping pong earlier. You were chasing me all around the room. I saw you pounding by the way I just brought you today three decent ping pong balls. Okay. I was playing with you with this one-star ball that were ridiculous, but now you can tell everybody now I have nice balls to play ping pong. Thank you. Thank you so much. You're more than welcome. And for the t-shirt too. Nice. Thank you. Um, so. So I guess that's where you're heading, is to try to really develop this ultimately, uh, a set of contractors that'll want to like, be and stay certified and you can kind of release new things and exercises almost like a Peloton or something, something. Right. I, I will start the educational neuro process. I will start the educational process. Um, I can be held also by, uh, other table tennis club all over the nation. Sure. Yeah. Anybody at that club could be certified. How to deliver the product. Really, I need the person behind your skills. Yeah. It doesn't matter to me if you're an amazing player. Really doesn't. Yeah. I need to feel you as human being that wants to put. Your time in these conditions and help people. Yeah. That is the first step. It's a little bit like our local facilitators. Absolutely. Yes. You know, they're, they're not there for the money. We do pay them for their time and, and I'm sure your folks should be able to earn something for their time. They could, right. But then also it's more about, you know, do you have a heart for this community? Correct. You know, did you lose your dad to Alzheimer's? D does your mom suffer from Parkinson's right now? And this has made a difference, this book did. You know, the more I talk to people about that, and again, my first goal is to increase the awareness about these things, the more I find people that have some relative. Yeah. Mom, sister, brother, grandpa, with one of these conditions. Yeah. And that is the first goal. So let me tell you something else. I mean, in October, I will go to this event that is, uh, two weeks of Olympic sports in St. George, Utah. Okay? It's called the Senior Enhancement World. Senior Enhancement Game, okay? Collects people coming from more than 50 nations in the world. Okay? Two weeks of Olympic, of any kind of sports. Well, guess what? One of those sport is table tennis. So I went there the first year and uh, now you're gonna laugh at me. Uh, I was, no, I still am. And I won a gold medal outta the blue. What really? What, that's what I said. I didn't know that, that's what I say. But, um, I had some, uh, not an argument. I had some discussion. This is when 2000, 2000 now is 2021. No doubt. Yes. Oh, I didn't, well, I should feel better about my, you, you beat me by as much as you well could have because we are using your rules. These rules that were abandoned, like, I dunno, 20 years ago to Right. Or 21. Let's use these different rules next time. We'll, we'll do that. And so the point was that, um, I had some, uh, discussion with the, uh, director of the table tennis event and um, and we really arrived a piece, we clarify every single thing, but there was a good trigger to keep us in touch. Yeah. And a few months later this event happened. So always in October I told her, say, what do you think if I organized something for you next year? I said, what are you talking about? Well, you didn't know that I have MS and I guarantee you in 200 people playing table tennis there, somebody has Parkinson's, somebody has mild dementia. I mean is, it might not be evident yet, but No. My gosh, we are, we just said that one 20 of them were one in nine. One in nine will get mild dementia. Right. We were 2 25. And so, um, I told her, I said, why don't we do something? Well, we go very slow. Um, the organization doesn't move fast. I said, why don't I start working on something? So I started working on emailing proposal and after five months of emails back and forth, they allowed me to present this European event. Oh, cool. Was on me because they didn't wanna be involved much, but it was very successful. Oh, they gave you a venue? They did. And they gave me the, an audience first four table right there. Yeah. At the entrance of this. We had more than 30 tables set. Oh, wow. Set uhhuh. And so actually at the beginning of the event, uh, uh, the, uh, the co-director said everything about the nuong. And so everybody start to be curious. And we had this colorful shirt with a brain on, on it. And so everybody came close to the table to see our tournament. Mm-hmm. The most important four tables right there at the entrance. And the event was amazing. So, as a matter of fact, I mean, as a result of that, that is why I'm creating a European program in Utah now. Mm-hmm. And in October we are gonna have a, another event right there. It's like a, a coalition of the willing indeed. Like people through that said, I want to be part of bringing this to my community, my town, my state. And in the meantime, I, they call me at certain point San Antonio, there is a lady that doesn't move, would you please come over? Well, this lady was having one of those freezing moment Mm. That happened to. People living with Parkinson. Hmm. And of course nobody knew about that. Hmm. And, uh, three or four other people say, my, well my husband has mild cognitive impairment here is he just played. And so we stay in touch and we are creating a community. So my goal was, okay guys, I wanna shine a light on these people, not because they are different. We are not at the zoo with these weird animals. They are us and we are them. Yeah. Yeah. So we are part of the society. Society needs to know because things happen to everybody. Yeah. So let's put down an taboo, any stigma about these conditions and talk about this. Yeah. Yeah. And that is indeed what, for example, dementia Together is doing about dementia. Yeah. Uh, We need to make people aware. I met her, uh, when she was brand new, I think six months in, and had a chance to talk to some group. I was at a chamber meeting or something, and I was like, wow, this lady's gonna make a difference. You know, you, I was a banker for a long time. I just can tell, and I, and I could tell the same about you. You're, you're not even two years old as a nonprofit and having all these travels, all these connections, all these national organizations. Thank you. I appreciate that. Um, you know, I'm sure sometimes you're feeling like, when is it gonna get easier? And it, but it will. You're doing the right things. Oh, I am so soon. Uh, you know, um, at the beginning I was not discouraged, but, but I wonder, I said, what am I doing? Nobody's giving anything. Yeah. Uh, should I persist in that? And I said, well, I will. It was important for me. So the moment I start sharing the value and people start telling, oh my gosh, an Antonio, it's, yeah. Very, very nice and important. Okay. You guys support me. Morally well, you've built a seat of interest now, and now it's time, frankly, to charge for the value you're delivering. Yeah. To we need to take a different direction. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I feel like you've got a thousand interesting stories, uh, from your lifetime and your 150 papers published and whatever else. Um, is it time to like hear a little bit more about Antonio and where in Sicily and things like that? Well, yes, absolutely. So I was born actually in collaborators, the last region of Italy before your ride to Sicily. Okay. But my parents were originally from Sicily, so, uh, the age of 10 we moved back to the Maland. I see. And so I grew up there. My and describe Sicily, is it like a, I know it's an island, but it's almost like, it's almost semi-independent from Italy, right? Uh, Sicily, if you think of a paradise on her. Okay. That is Sicily. Huh? Means there was the center of the me, there still is the center when Theran. Mm. And now. We had invasions from anywhere. Right. So this north and southeast portion of Sealy was part of the mania gria. So we were really Greek. Mm. And the west portion was completely associated with Africa. Oh wow. So you have different. Attitude, different skin color, different spices, different food. Geography of this island is amazing. You go from volcano to mountains to ocean to lakes, any kind wine, red wine, uh uh, white wine, just all these different geographic regions, different geographic region. So as this triangular shape that is, um, right, the center, uh, we call the is the crib because we were pampering everybody. Like the bread basket almost. Yes. Every basket. So the heartland, the finish were coming, the vikings were coming. They were find this welcoming little crib. The Africans were coming, they were, find this welcome little crib. Huh? The Greeks were coming. We have so many Roman and Greek theaters on that portion of the island, on the east portion where I'm from. On the west portion, besides some, uh, Greek theaters, we have a cast by many in many cities. Hmm. And they've been there for five, 600 years. Hmm. And so is this no association of people of different nationalities putting all together. So it's really, it's, it's. Italy's had effective control over it for quite a while, but ultimately it's a, it's a melting pot like no other. Almost correct is a melting pot because was this beautiful island. Yeah. Now think about Italy was unified in the middle of 1800. And so up until then, oh, up until then we had the king on the north portion of Italy, and up until then from Naples down, they belong to the Spaniard, to the agonist. Oh, is that right? Argon. Oh. Until the Italy was united. So even though there was the, the Roman Empire, if you will, uh, in the Catholic kind of, but as far as uh, estate, it wasn't that way. It was the kingdom of the two Sealys, ah, Spain and Naples down south. And gra Sealy as well. Interesting. Yes. So how, how many people, uh, live on Sicily? Ooh, the island is big. I mean, the biggest city is Palermo and us probably 4 million people. 3 million people. Okay. So maybe 30 million or 50 million people all together. Yeah, it's bigger than, it's big as Colorado I think. Si cool. Beautiful island. Beautiful island. Fascinating. So what was your family into, uh, you were in the east, you said? I was in the tip east of Si, northeast corner of Sealy. And we had this ferry to take to go on motherland on Italy. Mm. It's two kilometers, three kilometers, sorry. Oh. Uh, so you put your car and the train on the ferry and you crossed this Oh, very narrow. Straight. Straight. Really? Yes, very narrow straight. And so, um, uh, I grew up there and so I. I was involved, I was interested in folk music, in researching the all traditional sing songs in Sicily. Mm-hmm. So I had this group of research of music in Sicily. Interesting. And so I, this is like as a, as a late as a hobby. Yes. I was 14. 14. So I played the piano. Growing up I learned guitar. And with this group I started playing percussion. It's a specific instrument called tambour. It's a tambourine. Mm-hmm. It's a frame drum and uh, there is a Sicilian technique. Mm-hmm. The collabrate technique. Then a poly technique, the Pulia technique. And I dunno why I was able to pick up all those techniques anyway. So, uh, in my life as a musician also, I was lucky enough that a certain point I was in 19, I got in touch with the most famous group of early music in the world. Interesting. Interesting. So I went to a selling class and I fall in love with this lady from Rome, who's brother, uh, was a bass player. In the European orchestra with the famous director of Aria. Okay. And after that, he switched to Viola and he went to study in Switzerland, uh, with his famous, uh, director of early music. Uh, one day she called me San Antonio. Remember you play percussion. They need a percussionist that's familiar with early music. Okay? I was not, oh, so, uh, can you come to Rome in a week and they want to test you. Okay. So this gentleman from Spain, um, called me and say, I will be in front of the pan. I will be reading LPs this magazine from Spain, and I will see there nine o'clock in the morning. Okay? Okay. So I took an overnight train, uh, I spot this gentleman in the middle of a square. We had fast together and uh, of course he was speaking five language. So we were talking in Italian then. And uh, he asked me, well, where can we see the way you play? Now, I dunno if you have been to Rome, this Panton I have. It's this beautiful place and there are many columns. Yeah. And I told him, why don't we go in between those columns? And he said, why not? Yeah. So he asked me, can you take this rhythm? Sure. Can you take this rhythm? Sure. Can you, of course. Remember I was my first year of medical school, so I was 17 or 18, and he asked me, how much is your honorarium for concert? And I told him, well, what's that? Well say whatever you pay the other musician, I will get the same honorarium. Good idea. Wow. Um, guess what? A month later he called me and I start playing with him and I play with him for more than 10 years. Oh, wow. And I recorded many LP and CDs with him. Oh wow. And this again, it was this, he still is the most famous, uh, player of early music. You, my sense is you have a really strong ability to just. Repeat back or, or just to understand the, the, the beats and the things like, uh, not quite a, what's that term they use for real music gurus? Well, I, I had music with me, uh, uh, and I study piano, so I was reading music. I study guitar. And, uh, actually I arrived to the percussion field just because a friend of mine couldn't play anymore. I said, well, you know, I feel I can do that. And I was able to just, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. And I became very proficient and, uh, well, and I enjoyed that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it, it seems like it's almost like the, the science somehow made sense to you. Yes. The science made sense. The, the, the, the rhythm made sense. So I can, I see the time going and I apply my knowledge and I enjoy that. And I, it's time. Is it visual for you? Music a little bit like flipping that baby on the delivery. It is very visual and it's very emotional. Yeah. Um, again, in the darkness of my mind, I was seeing that baby in the, uh, a moment of, uh, during a concert I see the music and I feel people. Yeah. And so it's a combination that enriched me. I mean, so the, the emotions of the people pouring out at you is part of what you feed me. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I dunno if, are you into music? Yeah, yeah. No, I, I love to sing. Uh, I'm not a musician yet. Am I gonna listen to you singing now? No. Right. No. No. Right. Not yet. No, we don't have time. We Okay. Good. Goof. Okay. Maybe. Okay. No. Uh, um, you know, when you play a concert, especially acoustic concert, you play in big churches mm-hmm. And you don't have any microphone. Mm-hmm. And so you play for somebody, so somebody picks you from the audience and they start looking at you. So it is, and you feel honored by somebody's following you. And, you know, there is somebody that follows the cello, somebody that plays the piano. Sure. And so, Every single time I play there is somebody in the audience that interacts with me. Hmm. And so I connect. Oh, connect. It's not just table tennis Connect, you know, think about it, it's a human connections for sure. That is for sure been my, um, the most important thing in life. Can you, uh, do a brief example of some of the music that was traditional in this place? Is it just strictly acoustics or is it, is it singing too? No, there was a soprano, uh, his wife was a famous, famous soprano. So it's music from You're probably not a soprano though. Uh, not to my knowledge. No. No, I'm not. So it's music from the 1400. Oh wow. 1415 in the Kingdom of the two Sicily. Remember these guys from Spain, only those two places? Yeah. With the entire kingdom of Spain and uh, uh, Southern Italy. And so they were. This Renaissance music. Mm-hmm. Basically. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so, um, was it orchestra style or how do you It was an orchestra. So there are three viola gaba, the viola is the parents of all the, um, arc instrument like cello, violin babies. Okay. Um, and there is the trombone and the trumpet. Those are original instrument from 1400 mm. This gentleman had a short viola being like a violin. Yeah. He was in the airplane with him. He was, uh, built in Venice around 14 something. So we were paying the ticket for de viola sitting close to him. Right, right. And, uh, um, all the regional instrument was ridiculous. Hmm. Uh, so yeah, the trombone, uh, the forgot, uh, the, uh, cornet, uh, percussion. Hmm. Uh, beautiful, beautiful instrument. Oh, fascinating. So it wasn't just, Of this style. It was also using this, really the original ancient instruments. Now if you think about all the modern instrument, also the, if you think about the guitar, guitar comes from LTE or from the Viv. Mm-hmm. And so there are, those are the original instrument, this original string instrument. So there are this long, long lte, short lte. The Viv is a little bit, uh, flatter. And uh, you go to the trombone trombone. The original trombone came from that time. Hmm. Very interesting. I would like to spend 30 minutes here, but, uh, then we'll run out of time. Um, we still got some time left, but tell me about, so you're in medical school, but you also go on this 10 year professional music ride. So my first year of medical school, uh, when I went back to music, I wondered should I switch to music? Mm-hmm. Uh, because I realized that my technique all over Europe, there were no many people playing my technique. Yeah. So in the world of early music, I could have done something there, but, you know, my love for medicine was strong and guess what? I was able to manage both of them. Hmm. Was really intense. I'm sure. So I remember being in Barcelona, in Spain at the Saura Familia in this amazing place. And, uh, in between rehearsal I was studying the amino acids metabolism. So I was with my book on a bench studying this thing. So I was always traveling with my book. Yeah. Because before going on, after coming back, I had a test and I had to catch up. Uh, but I was able to manage both of them. And, you know, a friend of mine were kind of Antonio, I cannot believe you just came back and you did this test and was very good. Amazing. Right. Or, oh my gosh, now you're going back again. Playing and remember, I mean, you've barely practiced. You've been studying all once. And I was, and I was really, uh, paid in Mark then. Oh. So at that time, You know, Europe was more strong currency versus Europe was not united, so we didn't have the Euro. Right. And so Deutschemark, I was able to buy my first computer. Yeah. You always had a fat pocket because it was full. Yes. I was able to, to buy my first computer to buy my vest, but it's still with me. So I was getting some independence at that time for a kid of 18 years old. We was, was very unique. Yeah. Well, in Italy right now, it's like 32 year olds are still living with their friends even more. Yes. Even older than that. Yes. So, um, yeah, tell me about that, that journey from there. Did you, um, did you meet your partner early on? Has she been with you forever or? One of my, uh, um, current partner, actually, I met her 11 years ago. Okay. Um, so in my, I finished my medical school, I won a grant. I went to Milano. I learned something in Milano. I finished my residence in Milano. And through the Milano connections, I did my first fellowship here in the us I went to Oregon. Okay. Uh, my English was very, almost zero, zero minus zero one, you you call it. And uh, um, so I did a fellowship and what is this? This is like 1991. Wow. So I was 28, 29. And, uh, so I spent one year in Oregon. I went back to Milano and uh, my, I had no position still at university. So after one year I did another fellowship here in Denver, actually. I went to Denver and after two years I went back to Milano. I finally got my position at the university. And, uh, one day, uh, my mentor called me in my office, San Antonio. Uh, can I send you a resident to do an elective time with you? I said, whoa. Okay. So that was Friday afternoon. I went to the airport Tuesday morning with a. Cardboard box in my hand. Say, okay, American Airlines number this. I had a name, first name Julie. Okay. So here comes this. Julie getting out of the airplane, she finds me. And, uh, she was this resident here from, from Colorado that spent six weeks with me learning this, um, uh, specific technique to assess fetal wellbeing. Okay. And, uh, well I fall in love with this lady. Oh. Oh. And so she had to move back here to Denver. She had to finish her residency. And, uh, once she finished, she joined me in Italy. Oh. So we got married and we had two kids, but my second kid was born just after nine 11. Hmm. And so Julie didn't wanna stay anymore here in the us Hmm. And so I was a chairman in Italy at the age of 39, so it's very rare. Uh, but, uh, I parked my house and we came back here with a one month old kid. It sounds like you were a little bit begrudging. No, it was intense. It was intense for me, but you know, I always say, okay, life can start tomorrow from scratch. So I came back here. I, uh, uh, visiting professor position for one and a a year. I had to redo my test. The test. I'm teacher boards or whatever. Yeah, not yet. I, I started to qualify as a medical student. Oh. And after one and a year I restarted my residency. Oh my. So the people, so, so you went coming from like, uh, eight down to a two or something. Zero. Again, here we go. Zero again. So the people that were my student when I was a visiting professor until June 16 year comes June 18, and they are my boss. So I redid my residency. And, uh, uh, was more than 80 hours per week. Uh, but, you know, I take any experience, uh, in a positive way. Yeah. It wasn't what's tough. Um, I learn always from anybody, so I put myself always in this learning mo mode. Uh, okay. I need to spend this time. Okay. I'm sure I will learn something. How fast was your English coming along? Uh, at that time was kind of decent. Yeah. Uh, I was communicating with people as a matter of fact. I mean, falling in love with an American woman probably helped. Yes. It did. A lot of phone calls and whatnot. It did help. Yes. But after, uh, one year after my residency, our relationship started falling apart, so we got divorced. Hmm. And that was really the toughest thing that happened in my life. Yeah. Very tough. I never thought of that enough. Your kids were pretty young. My kids were pretty young and I was. 43. I mean, I waited so long to get married. Yeah. I was 38 when I got married. And so that was the biggest failure of my life. What, uh, like when you recanted it now, like what do you think your contribution to that failure was? Excuse me. I'm sure was at least 50%. I mean, there is nothing, nothing we can say. Was it cuz you were older and kind of stuck in your ways or? No, we were probably things like that too. Too much stubborn for each other. Yeah. And so, um, too hard heads, uh, too hard. Have a tough time to go or something. Yeah. We, we were unable to communicate and this was affecting the quality of life for everybody. Yeah. So was that my ideal situation? No, but I had to take it and, uh, and that's it. So now I've been in this relationship with this beautiful and amazing lady. Her name is Gail, uh, for 11 years. Mm-hmm. And, uh, um, no more kids along the line. You have two kids? No, we have two. She has two. So we have four kids. Yeah. Yeah. Three are 21 years old. Oh wow. My son and her two kids are set of twins. Yeah. Beautiful twins. A boy and girl. And my daughter's gonna be 23. She works in Chicago. She just finished college last year and she found a job right away. So we are very proud of our family. Our kids are completely different from each other. Uh, never in the last 11 years. One conflict. Uh, we travel well together. Hmm. Yes. Um, we like to explore, uh, the diversity within our family. Uh, we have fun. Awesome. Enjoy that. That's really cool. Um, tell me about, like, you obviously, even though you reset your career basically back to zero, you were, cuz you opened the banner hospitals. Oh. Here. And like you had a lot of amazing career points. Yes. From our coffee. I remember. So, and you wrote 150 papers, like when did you really become an expert? Expert? Several wrote books as well. Um, so what I did, I was working, uh, in, uh, um, Frisco. I had my practice in Frisco. Okay. But I met Gail and she was here in Fort Collins. Mm-hmm. So to get closer to her, uh, I found a, a location, uh, a position in the banner, um, system in Greeley. Okay. So I started working Greeley, but I was really driving Greeley Denver with my kids, uh, uh, for Collins Greeley. Denver for Collins was intense. And so I, uh, the, the banner system was opening up at, uh, an hospital here. So I told them, same guys, uh, I'm still young. I'm the obvious. I am full of energy. And the first time they told me, well, we are looking for a lady, not for a man. I said, okay. So may I ask you why? Uh, well, that's what we decided. Okay. Um, I was on call one night and uh, the administrator person called me and said, Antonio, are you interested in that position still? I say, of course. I mean, you know that I can cover from A to Z and you are walking in for Collins from scratch. And the other system, the pbh, is really offering every single thing. Right. Um, and they say, position is yours. So, uh, what I did before I moved to Fort Collins, uh, we were building the, the, the hospital, so it was me, uh, a pediatrician, an intensive care unit specialist, a er, and a surgeon. Those were the five person that started the hospital. And uh, um, I came here before. I just wanted to see what the community was. Sure. So I introduced myself to the different physician, family practice physician. I say my service are here for anybody. Yeah. And you touched something very important earlier on about the less underserved people. Yeah. Uh, I went to introduce myself to the physician working at the Salute Clinic. Mm-hmm. Here up north. Mm-hmm. And actually a lady that was one of my students when I was working in Denver, she was an attending there. So thank you so much for coming here because we really, nobody ever showed up here. And you are the first one offering your service here. So guys, here I am, and our hospital will help you anything, any way we can. And so I was very proud of that. Yeah. And I worked very hard and I enjoyed, uh, a every single moment of my work. I've never really thought about how, uh, entrepreneurial opening a, a new facility location like that really was. Like, not just you, but the pediatrician and this and that. Like you had to go, it was interesting. Yes. Check the bushes a little bit to try to find some customers. Otherwise, this expensive building's going to struggle. Let me tell you. I mean, our service was the only one. Able to make hand the meats. Hmm. How you say? Hands, meat. Yeah. Uh, ends meat. S meat. Yeah. And ends meat be profitable. Yes. And uh, it was interesting. We were supporting entire hospital in the first four or five months. Oh wow. And it was very nice. Yeah. So, and that just kind of, you know, don't tell me about these books that you've written. Like you're, you're obviously an expert at some things around this space. So what? Well, I produce many pub scientific publication and, uh, I, when I was 29, I invented something in the field of aesthetics. Okay. So when you deliver a baby, I haven't yet. You have? Not yet. No, not yet. Probably later. I hope to. So probably later on today, I mean, hi baby. The day is still long. The day is still long in front of you. When a person delivers a baby. Yeah. When a person delivered a baby, um, we have a very subjective assessment. So the baby's coming in into the birth canal. Mm-hmm. And we assess with our finger. Many things are the position of the baby mom's dilatation. We are more of an artisan there, we are really using our tactile sensation. Mm-hmm. And so, well that's not here, it's also in the belly. Okay. But through the vaginal canal. Yeah. We assess certain things. Also feel bony part of a mom. Right. The head of the baby is color of the baby. Right. But it's very subjective. It's very, and maybe sometimes wrong as well. Yeah. If you do it a thousand times, you're probably barely ever wrong. But the first 50 or a hundred or 200 times. Yeah. But you being right means that you are wrong and vice versa. If you're right, I am wrong. Right. Because you are assessing. Okay. If I wanna measure you, I put you against the wall and I put a measuring tape, I say you are six two. Yep. Instead of say, oh, he may be six and a half, or it may be seven and seven, it may be four. Right. That, that's just my assessment. So, uh, um, I discovered that if I was placing a ultrasound probe on mom's pubic bone, I could see how the baby was coming down. Mm. So when mom pushed the baby, In the last phase of, uh, labor, the baby doesn't come down into the B canal in a straight way. It's like a screw. It's rotating. Mm-hmm. And he's using the mom's pubic bone as a fulcrum. Mm-hmm. And comes out as a corner around the corner extending. Yeah. The baby's extending. Ah. So when mom push the baby, that's never straight direction as an angular direction. Mm-hmm. So I invented this angle of progression. I was measuring an angle. Okay. We are, I am 29 or 30, and, uh, I present this data at the First World Congress on labor and deliver. Okay. I had to fight with my, uh, uh, chairman in Milano was a big person, big personality as well, because he wanted to present this data. Say, listen, don't send my data. I am a little kid. I know, but let me do that. Right. You know, in Italy there is always this Yeah. The hierarchy. So I present this nine minutes, uh, uh, data and the audience was silent. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Did I say that a certain point? A gentleman stands up and start clapping. Hmm. By himself. Once he's done clapping, everybody starts clapping and he keeps talking. I say, guys, you all of you are so old. This guy now is showing us what we have been imagining for Century is showing exactly what's happening. I wish I would've known you when I invented my device. Now, who was this guy was the famous guys from Australia that invented a suction device that help us deliver a baby. Mm-hmm. It's all over the world. Yeah. Say, oh my gosh, Antonio, I just published my DVD and you are showing me, you are letting me see what I always was thinking. Yeah. Okay, so I was young. I was finally, uh, debating on the stage with this invention and people all over the world will say, oh my gosh, Antonio, really, really, really well. After five years, a gentleman from Berlin uh, bought a DVD that actually published here in the US and started using my technique. So he got in touch with me and said, oh my gosh, Antonio. That's very evolution. It's way better. Yeah. Yes. And so the, we were five or six people around the world, a few in Italy, one in Israel and Germany, another guy in Finland that started using this technique. And after 10 years or more, we finally met in the same place in Italy, and I created this society, scientific society called Islands. International society, labor and delivery ultrasound. So we are all the expert in the world using this technique. And is that why people were coming to Italy to residency with you instead? You No, they, they were learning something else at that time. Okay. At that time they were learning something else. And so, uh, uh, I invented this thing. And so all over the world, it's called Anglo Progression. As a matter of fact, I just received an email today, uh, a gentleman from Japan Yeah. That met me in that meeting, asked me to co-author with him one of his paper in the, uh, national Japanese Society about this thing. Yeah. And I just received an email today was published. Cool. So did you get paid anything for that? No, of course not. Did you get any royalties for No, no. None of that. The problem was that, that I didn't, um, how do you say I didn't, I didn't patent it or something. I didn't patent that. Yeah. Because there was an intellectual property. Sure. And I didn't, I'm a little surprised that your medical system didn't. Patented. Well, you know, remember I was a little kid then, right? Right. And so, and until one day somebody, some ultrasound company actually was showing me such specific images that they took over the internet, say, man, will you take those images? Right. Or from the internet, say, you know who this hand is is mine. Those were my fingers in this video that I produced. Those are my fingers. Oh, that's my blue shirt. How did you get those? And so at that point, you know, I, it's, yeah, that's water under the whatever goes. Yeah. So cool. Um, so tell, I guess, uh, I'm feeling like we could tell stories in medicine all day. Other, other highlights from your medical career or publishing? Oh my gosh. Yeah. When I moved from Sicily to Milano and, uh, I switched my residency there because, uh, this professor want me there with him. Uh, we were trying to keep the small babies in mom's. Uterus until they were able to keep them from being too premature. From being too premature. Correct. But they were not growing well. So the dilemma was, what are we doing with these babies? Mm-hmm. If they keep an inside mom's belly, they may die. If they, we get'em out too soon, then neonatologists at that time, were unable to take care of these kids. Yeah. So for us, prematurity was 32 weeks. Now we deliver a baby at 24 weeks. Right. But then the neonatologist said, we don't know what to do. Right. The mortality was so high. So we were trying to feed the babies. Yeah. Like supplemental feeding, almost supplemental feeding. So we were cannulating the umbilical cord through mom's belly and feeding this baby with amino acids. Wow. And so I was going all over Italy talking about the relationship between. This amino acid, this is metabolism offi. And the way I was recording the blood flow in the fiddle circulation, again, I was a little kid going all over Italy. My mentor was a, a, um, an amazing guy at the University of Milan. He taught me many things and so we were producing a bunch of publications on that. Yeah. And so we were gonna lower the world talking about this. That's pretty cool. What a, what a journey. Very cool. Well, and, and I think, you know, it could well be your most impactful days are still ahead of you with I hope so. Otherwise what they mean. Yes. Absolutely. I, so, so, um, we always, as you know, talk about faith, family, and politics Okay. In this program. And, um, I don't know if you as much or as little you, uh, have things you'd like to say. We've talked about your family. Ask me anything you want, and I, let's talk about your family a little bit more. You've got, uh, your two kids and it sounds like you're very close to your, your stepkids as well. Yes. Uh, I always ask for a one word description of each child. Okay. Are you up for that challenge? Marina is very shy, very sensitive. Uh, beautiful. I delivered, I delivered my two kids myself. Oh. I wouldn't have passed that for any reason in the world. That's cool. Uh, so, uh, Marina is the joy of my life. Um, she's shy. She's like me. She's, even if I talk, I mean I'm very introverted and shy. Believe it, believe it or not. Yeah. I can still video ping pong, but I'm still shy. Yeah, I'll see. I'm still shy. Um, William is very athletic, mean you give anything in sports and he will excel. Hmm. Outta the blue. Pick it right up. Um, he was in elementary school, think third grade. And this lady went to propose fencing to the school. So Williams started fencing and she asked me, where have you been fencing? Which pub you go? Who taught him? Ma'am, that's the first time I touched this thing. So that's William, uh, max is, um, where you are artsy. Um, Gail is, um, From the Chickasaw nation. So Max, you look at him and he is as very a feature, very peculiar of indigenous population. Yeah. Yeah. And as it's long air, dark and skinny and very fancy and very stylish. Yeah. Yeah. And he's studying industrial design. Oh, cool. And, uh, Sophie is in Boulder and uh, uh, she is amazing. She was very introverted when I met her. Hmm. Actually, when I met her, she was riding a lot. I said, my gosh, this girl rides so well. And, uh, her mom and I were in, she may get into writing, now she's doing environmental studies. Hmm. So our family, again, being very diverse, we are very united. Yeah. And, uh, and we enrich each other. Uh, last Christmas, uh, we decide, okay, instead of just buying silly presents, why don't we buy a book? Think of the other person that receiving the book. Hmm. So each of us book a little, uh, bought a little book. It doesn't matter if it was used secondhand, doesn't matter. It was supposed to be given to you. And so I need to buy the book. Thinking of you. Yeah. It was a very nice experience. I like that. Um, yeah. We are very symbolic in our I like that line. You just used that. Diverse and united, I mean, that absolutely describes not just a great family, but a great state, a great country, you know, a, a great island, whatever, anything. We are enriching each other. A staff. Yes. Constantly a team. Yes. Oh, whatever. Whatever. I like it. Yeah. So, um, and let's talk a little bit about your, your partner, Gail. Uh, what, uh, what was it that connected you guys at first, those 11 years ago? We met through a common friend and, um, very artsy person. Uh, I think Gale is the most beautiful soul I ever, ever met. Mm. She's very pure, um, very authentic, uh, very real. Um, when I met her, she was starting her business. Now she's in, she has her own business here in town and she's very proud of that. Um, she has a workroom, uh, of interior design. Oh, so she works, uh, uh, can I give it a plug or anything like that? Is she Yes. Uh, or her, uh, a business called Sparrow House of Design. Oh, I know who that is. She has a work, actually. I think you know her. Yeah, I do. You, uh, uh, you knew know her? She told me about you. Uh, all I said years ago. Probably Years ago. Yes. So she has a workroom and a showroom. Yeah. Uh, women's business. Uh, very proud of that. Very, very, um, specific, very, uh, Precise. She just wants to do the job in the best way she can. Yeah. An amazing designer too, like some of the her creations are, and, and her mind is really, really so, so beautiful. Yeah. She's a charmer. I feel enriched by the pre her presence in my life. Awesome. That's great to hear. Um, do you wanna talk about faith or politics next? Oh, I grew up in a ca country, so I was raise everybody's Roman Catholic there pretty much. Yeah. I was raised Catholic. Um, since I moved here in the us, uh, I would say I'm not practicing Catholicism. Okay. But I still feel I am a spiritual person. I always care about the soul beyond your face. Yeah. You, you still think Jesus is a good guy. I think that if you read the gospel, whatever this Jesus did was he was the first revolutionary person. Yeah. Kind of. I mean, I cannot find anything that he says, whoever says that. And if Jesus did, uh, That is wrong. I mean, it's so pure, but it's very pure. It's very black and white and it's free. It's free of any kind of notions. Like when he's questioned by people that are trying to trap him and stuff like that, he pure cannot be trapped. Pure. Yeah. In this simplicity because the message is very simple. Mm-hmm. The message is one, love the other people like you. Love yourself. Yeah. None love God more than you, and you can be more than you Christian and you can be Jewish, you can be anything you want. Sure. Yeah. But you are my Jesus. You are my God. Means I We are in this hurt passage and I'm giving something to you. So if indeed you are, you are built to resemble God. Yeah. In the image of you are in the image of, yeah. That's you are my God. I think that's one of the things that's so fascinating in this kind of equal rights and equality and equity and, and conversation and the Christians are kind of pushed over. On the right, but like that notion that we are all created equal, it's because God created us that way. It's not necessarily, you know, and that's, I dunno, to me that's kind of a dichotomy that those that have most rejected God are kind of trumpeting this equality. But, but really what makes us equal is kind of that notion that we're created that way indeed. But we as human being maneuver and use, use and abuse anything, every single thing to our, to our favor. So the Roman church was an amazing power Oh, use in the centuries. Yeah. So any religion has the power of influencing people. Now, I don't wanna side marks, but the point is that there is a political influence. Oh, for sure. There is a human influence. So if. I am a human being behind, uh, uh, if I be, will become Pope in the next week, I probably almost unlikely, but unlike, unlikely, more likely that I'm gonna deliver a baby. Okay. More like, okay. But the point is, it's me. Right? So I bring my knowledge, I bring my, my background, and Sure. And I need to push your business because you are my friend. So that is the power of the corruptibility. This is the corruptibility. Yeah. But if we go back to the purity of the message. Yeah. Fair. The simple is I need to love you. I don't wanna love you. Like I love myself. Yeah. So that is my spirituality as much as I can. Now, we are a fault all day long. Right? We are sure we are. And we make people like to, you know, when somebody says, how, how are you doing? Uh, I always say better than I deserve. You know, we make mistakes. Yes. We make mistake. And we, our arrogance, our individualism, our, um, egoism. Um, so if we have time to think about, okay. How poorly did I behave today? Come on. Made me be Yeah. Better tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. Or even I cannot wait until tomorrow. Let me be better now if I'm able to realize how miserable I behave earlier on. I need to change. It feels like we may have swung a little too much, uh, to the side of individuality and, and not recognizing enough how essential connections are and how we're not just, I wrote a blog some months ago, I guess probably last July, it was called Liberty. From Liberty. Like don't imagine that you actually are this like self-contained island that can manage things all on your own. Correct. We can't Any more than we arrogance. Yes. Any more than that. We're fully part of the collective. Correct. Then that they should manage all of us. For us, you know, it has to be both. I am always right. Didn't we say that right now? No, I'm always right. Oh, you are? Okay. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you are? At least on my podcast. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, but I'm always right while I am on your podcast. So that is the point. So if we don't confront each other mm-hmm. And we don't step in in that process, Yeah. Engage in discourse. So need to respect you first. Yeah. Yeah. Let me listen to you and what do you actually think? Yes. Let me listen to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we may disagree, but from our disagreement, we can build something good. Yeah. Is just the possibility of communicating just the possibility of connecting that allows us to move forward in any direction. Yeah, yeah. In a positive, constructive way. I was just thinking about that notion of where two or more gathered God is there too. Correct. And it kind of correct is a real thing. You know, there's it, it is a real thing more than just two people's worth of stuff. Real thing stuffs going on when you're connecting it is a real thing. Yeah. That's why I was telling you earlier on, I need to be surrounded by people that share the same vision and we need to be together. We need to put our energy together. Yeah. Yeah. Talking a which, uh, I've been pushing nowadays these cross-sector communications. So if I talk about always. Multiple sclerosis with people with multiple sclerosis. Yeah, you're gonna get old on that. If you live with Parkinson and talk always with people with Parkinson, you're gonna stay in that. Yeah. So I create this silly umbrella. Uh, I physically created this umbrella that was made in India, uh, with my logo and the logo of the three different organization, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer and Parkinson under the same umbrella. Let's stop building fences. Let's be together in this backyard. And I bought the barbecue is cooking. You bring me your food, I bring mine and somebody. So we have different spices in life, but guess what? We are the same. We are this human being, experiencing this meal. So on, uh, based on your experience, who's the best at ping pong? Is it the, uh, dementia patients, the Parkinson's or the, you know, what it's, it's, it's, and who responds the fastest and how, like what have you seen in that regard? So, Let me tell you. So this group with bio cognitive impairment Yeah. Arrive and they arrive once and I say, oh my gosh. The ability, their, their um, oh my gosh. Uh, the, um, it's not the synchronous, like their physical abilities or whatever, their clean Yeah. Compared to us with multiple sclerosis and people living with a Parkinson. Yeah. So it was easier for them to do the specific exercise. Yeah. Now to understand exercise it took a little bit longer. Explain it, things like that. Yeah. But so what, so, and guess what, if I need to explain the same thing to you, I can use one of my four languages. I speak five, or I use signs, or I use colors, or I use music. Mm. If I won't communicate with you, I will find the mean of communication. Yeah. Yeah. That is the point. I mean the wall in front of me. Now between you and me communicating. I will put it down. If I wanna communicate with you, I will go around, I will make it real. I will drill the hole. I will do something. Yeah. Yeah. My desire is to communicate with you, Peter. Oh, I've, uh, I, I buy my tortillas at, uh, Lu Delicious America. Whatever I do too. They're the best. I do too. And I remember an exchange one time where there was a, a, a challenging customer ahead of me, and the, the owner wanted to take them because she had better skills and communication. Yeah. And, and this young lady that didn't have very good English, like we did this little dance and, and we communicated and so much without any words being understood between the two of us. Like we both knew exactly what the other person meant the whole time. Because you want to, because we wanted to. Correct. Yeah. The first step is always, There is a line there. Do I wanna do it? Do I wanna cross that line? Yeah. Do I wanna do Yes. Yeah. Get dirty, find something. Well, you see some people get angry when they're forced to cross that line. Oh. That, you know, that person didn't even have any English down there at the shop or whatever. You know? That's arrogance. Yeah. That's arrogance. Well, I fear more. You wanna know something about this thing? Yeah. Once I participate in this father day event at my son's school. Okay. That was having poker game and ping pong game. Oh. So I played with this kid and I won, and uh, my son was at the table and he heard this kid talking to his dad, saying, oh my gosh, I lost with a guy and he doesn't even speak English. That was me. Right. Yeah. And my son heard that. And I said, okay, William, how do you feel about that? I mean, you know my accent. Oh, don't worry about that, that pa I mean, they are ignorant and there is nothing we can do. And of course I played against his dad that was very upset. And, and I won. Yeah. And I went to shake my hand and he didn't wanna shake my hand and say, sir, we are in front of kids. Why are going, why do I need to Yeah. Chase you to shake your hands, show something to these kids, what we do as adult. Behave as an adult, please. Yeah. It's sad. Uh uh, so it's really, uh, but I, I like that you called it out. I did. You know, but not for me. Yeah. Not for me. But we are in front of an audience of kids. Yeah. And you need to give an a sample. Yeah. We are having a, a social event. We are playing a sport. Shake my head. Yeah. Be a sportsman. Yeah. Yes. Um, well I think that covers well, the kind of faith and spirit and notions. Okay. Um, politics. Okay. What do you wanna know? I don't know. Um, what do you think about our American system in comparison to the Italian system? Um, There are some big difference in the legal system. Very, very big difference. I mean, in terms of the different court level, the federal court, the judge, and the local, the state. Um, remember we arrived to the European community, uh, I don't remember, probably 10 years ago. No, I left, yeah. 10 years ago. And uh, when I was a kid we were dreaming of this European community, but um, so now we have an European court as well. Sure. So the legal system is very different. What I like about the, uh, American society is that the daily life is easy. Hmm. Much easier than in, even in my country, in Italy. Yeah. But there are procedure, like greater comforts and things like that, or what do you mean easier? Uh, the, the easy life in any public office, believe it or not. So that's what, those are your rights. I go there, I need this, this, and this. Mm. And the service will be offered to you. Yeah. But if something is a little bit different, there is a comma that is different. You don't get anything. Yeah. Now in Italy, those are your service. Uh, okay. But today's Tuesday really, and uh, there is always something going on. Yeah. But people, people may add the com that was missing. There me means people go beyond because Interesting. Yeah. The, the, the rule doesn't allow me to do that. But lemme see what I can do for you. Yeah. Yeah. So again, is the person, the single individual, that's ultimately relationships. That's all it is. The human being behind the rule, the human being behind that position, that is indeed making the decision. Well, that makes us so corruptible. Right. In a way, I mean it's, that goes back to the sincerity and to who you are. Yeah. Of course I can use and abuse that. Or I can be completely ignorant and leave you alone. Yeah. So it's us as human being that make the difference. You know, sometimes it's a, I'm sorry, this is the, what's the word that's been used? Uh uh, people hide themselves behind the corporation. Hmm, sorry. Those are the corporation rules that, sorry. Yeah. Okay. But what about you? Because the corporate office is yours. You are in charge, right? So what do you wanna do? Do you see the problem? Do you wanna change it? And so politics should be at service as a politician, as a person in charge, as your leader, as your chairman, as a person in power. I am at your service. Yeah. Well, that's that notion of are you a civil servant or are you the person with power? Because they're, they're both. And sometimes, right. Well life. Life gives you power. Life right now is giving you power to decide if we continue this podcast, sir. Sure. Yeah. Right. And I have the power to say I do it. So we have our own power. Right. But guess what? We decide That doesn't matter because we are communicating. Hmm. So if you have this tool, you have the power of the tool. Right. You are offering that to me. You are giving a service. Yeah. Fair. You offered me this to, to offer me the possibility of express my idea. Hmm. So you have a power, but you are administering the power in a, in a positive way. In a good way. Yeah. And again, for me, the most powerful person needs to be the one most at service. Do you? Yeah. No, I, a hundred percent. I think that's probably the biggest shame in America right now is that like it used to be people that would mostly go into politics, would have like, They've been successful in business and life, and now they're 55 and they want to give back to their, let me give back. Correct. Let me give it back to their, but now somebody's gonna be digging through their phone records and all this and that, you know, and whatever. And just, it doesn't make it a very appealing thing because it's such a, I think, a microscope. And then, then once they get into the, the arena, then there's, you know, always somebody throwing eggs or tomatoes at you. Okay. So do you want to fight, I apologize for the word from within or from outside? Yeah. I don't know. That's a big question. I don't know either. That's one of my favorite definitions of politics is it's what we decided to develop. So we didn't actually hack each other apart with swords, you know, so that we can have debate and argumentation and, and have a, a system that, yeah. You know, there is one word in the American dictionary that I cannot stand arguing. Hmm. I'm discussing with you. I'm not arguing. Yeah. Even though you and I may have a different opinion. Yeah. I don't wanna argue with you. Yeah, yeah. Now, I mean, be passionate. I've been accused or debate is yes, is a more appropriate word. Debate is more approach. So in my medical committee, people were always San Antonio, you are the usual, passionate person. Yeah, yeah. Say, guys, am I the one saying what everybody's thinking and they were saying yes. Okay. So you guys are passionate as well. I'm the one voicing that, so I've been always in that position and I pay for that, but I'm okay. Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the day when I go to sleep and I put my hand on the, on the pillow, say, okay, what did I do today? Yeah. Uh, do I regret something? And as I was telling you earlier on, if I realize that I need to regret something, I need to find a solution tomorrow, I cannot be the same thing. So politics and, and, and power needs to be given back. If I have a power to change something, life is, Somebody said, leave the world just a little bit better than what you found it. Yeah. Yeah. Or, or, uh, you know, planting trees under whose shade you'll never rest. You can use so many, uh uh, those kinds of things. Those kind of things. Yes. And, uh, you know, I gave, um, a tapestry to my daughter. I, I bought this tapestry in Sealy that's three different color of green. Hmm. Uh, coming from cucumber from another plant and from a spice and represents a olive, olive tree. Hmm. And was made by a community that was fighting against the mafia in sizzly. Hmm. And I gave to my daughter and my daughter, even now, I didn't agree about tattoos. She decided to have this olive tree on her skin. Oh. And so the embrace embracing this concept is olive tree symbol of peace. Mm-hmm. Let's. I'm gonna use the word saying, fight. Let's make sure that we work for peace. No fight that we work for peace. Strive for um, have you ever been to Rotary Club, by the way? I've been to one Rotary Club. Actually, uh, last week there was a, a paper, uh, uh, uh, I wasn't the first page of the paper. I dunno if you saw me. Oh, I did not. Oh my gosh. I need to give you that. There was, I need to say thank you so much to this photo reporter. Um, in the first page was me. Tucker Carson kicked out of his Fox. Fox and, uh, don't Lemon kicked out of the c n Oh big news. And me with my red shirt talking about his ping pong. Oh, that's great. Uh, and so after that, uh, and another rotary, the fast rot got in touch with me and they Oh good. And they offered me, I'm gonna give a talk on August 10th. Oh, good. I gave another talk to another of the, I think they are, you are on my list. I gave my fast Rotary Club a list of people that, that Very nice. I knew that should be on there. So, very dunno. Nice. So this lady called me and send me an email and they invite me. Yes. That's awesome. Um, well, and you should really consider whether Rotary might be a good organization for you to engage with on an individual basis because it is a global community. It's all about what can we do to actually inspire peace and diversity and a respect and understanding. And I don't know, you just, you would jive with the cause, honestly. Well, didn't I tell you when I came here to, for, to work in Fort Collins, I came before the hospital was open to meet people. Hmm. I was one of the member of the project for self-sufficiency. Oh, yes, yes. Tracy. So, yeah. Yes. So I wa when I say what can I do once I walk in this community, I wanna feel part of the community. Yeah. So I wasn on the board, but I wasn't doing much. Yeah. I wasn't able to make this phone call for collecting money. I am a doer. And so, but that experience was very nice. I mean, It's very important that we give back. Yeah. And so a friend of mine that was on the same board invited me to the first, uh, um, rotary Club. Oh, good. And we are still friends. All good. Well know that, uh, I think you would, you would jive with the, with the style of that club and, uh, you'd see Tracy regularly too. Amazing person. She is. Um, so let's jump into the local experience. The, that craziest experience that you'd care to describe from your lifetime Could be a day, a moment, a week. Um, could be. Well, there's so many today. I was thinking about which one should I give you, but if I, they're too crazy. So I'm gonna give you the latest. Okay. Uh, when I op, when I founded this organization, I had to find the roof. Right. And I said, okay, well I need to find tables as well. Sure. And I didn't tell that to Gail. So I, I found a good deal with this, um, company in Oregon. I. And I bought 10 tables at the top of the tables. I didn't have a roof where to place them. They didn't fit in my garage. So here they arrived outside my driveway, 10 boxes of the top of the table. Where do I put these things, right? My wife arrived and said, oh my gosh, what are those things? Um, I just bought them. I said, Antonio, you put the cart in front of the horse. I say Galil. I don't name horse, so I'm gonna pull this car. What can I do? I'm gonna be the horse for a while, and where do we put them? So we had another friend at the three car garage, two cars. I said, can I please park my tables in your place? So she was not aware of my purchase. And then here we did with this big purchase that who knows when it's gonna come back. But, uh, and had to find the roof not only for the tables, but permanent for the tables also. Where do I park them now? Yeah. And she looked at me. Okay. Let me know next time. Okay. I will. I like it. So, uh, where are they now? Right now they're the boys, girls. Oh, sure. That's your permanent storage for them there. Great. Well, um, I've really enjoyed the time. I, I'm thankful you've made time for, to share your story with more people and, uh, I, I can just really see bright things ahead for you and the communities that you're building around tabletop connections. So, well, I share this enjoyment. Thank you so much for aiming me here. Uh, one because you let me free to express myself. You made me comfortable. Um, your place is comfortable. It's very cozy. And also you allow me to share my experience, not only what I'm doing now, but also more personal. Yeah. With whoever is gonna be listening to your podcast. Well, I know it'll be impactful. And, uh, um, if we get you outta here soon, we have time for a real quick game. Right. Actually, I give you. Probably not. No, no. I'm gonna give you the time to play one quick lesson. Absolutely. Yes. Well, thank you so much, Chris. It's been great. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Gut speed.